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BRYAN KOHBERGER "I'M INNOCENT" WANTS TO "TAKE BACK GUILTY PLEA" · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Bombshell tonight for time convicted killer Brian Coburger.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Do you remember the.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Four beautiful sleeping University Idaho students that were slaughtered in
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: their beds?
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: That Brian Coburger tonight says.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I'm innocent and he wants to take back his guilty
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: plead whoa. Brian Coburger now says, they tricked me into
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: pleading guilty. I know I stood up in court and
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: I said I did it, but I didn't do it,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: and that's my truth. He actually fixed his mouth to
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: say it's my truth. Good evening, I means he grace.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: This is crime Stories. I want to thank you for
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: being with us. What in that age a double l
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: It is despicable and I cannot believe we're having to
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: talk about him now. For time convicted killer Brian Coberger
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: now claims he's in a scent because.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: He's saying, basically, they lied to it.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: Tell me what's going on one of our one of
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: the roommates who's passed out and he's drunk class and
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: shadn't wake me up?
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: Okay?
• 1:34
  Speaker 5: Oh, and they saw some man in their house house nice?
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I are you with the patient? Okay?
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: I need someone to keep the phone, stop passing it around.
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: Can I just tell you what happened pretty much?
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: What is going on currently as someone passed out right now?
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: I don't really know what pretty much for him.
• 1:54
  Speaker 6: Okay, I need to know.
• 1:55
  Speaker 7: What's going on right now.
• 1:55
  Speaker 8: If someone has passed out.
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: Can you find that out, y'all.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: I'll come come with me to check.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: They were not passed out.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: They were all dead at the hands of Brian Coburger.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: And tonight to further twist the families. He says he's
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: innocent and he wants a trial. And you know what
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: I say to that, missus Gonsolvis, bring it on. I
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: agree with him about one thing, Christy. Brian Coburger says
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: in his handwritten petition, justice was not served. True words
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: were never spoken. Justice was not served because he needs
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: the death penalty.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: So he's right.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: There's one phrase in this whole petition that is accurate.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Okay with me. You know them well. They are the
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: founders of murder has a name. This is in their
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: beautiful dollar daughter killing Gondsovas's memory, in her honor. She
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: was murdered by Brian Coburger and they are taking that
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: pain and transforming it into something good, raising money for
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: DNA kits to be handled and processed to stop killers
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: and get them off the street before more victims fall.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Prey. Christy is with us. Steve Gonsalvas is with us, Christy.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: When did you find out?
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Brian Coburger that pos technical legal term says, I'm innocent,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: I was tricked.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: I love this part, Christy that he was misled about
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: life behind bars.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Surprised Jille ain't what is cracked up to be?
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he figured that out, didn't he? When did you
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: find out about this?
• 3:55
  Speaker 5: I found out pretty early on, about about an hour
• 3:59
  Speaker 5: before it start started.
• 4:00
  Speaker 9: Busting at the scenes on the media. Steve hat called me.
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: And I was in the middle of a Zoom meeting
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: for Murder as a Name, and I was like, Steve's
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: telling me, call me right away, call me out, and
• 4:13
  Speaker 5: I'm like, I gotta go, Like he doesn't say that,
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: And I called him and he told me, and I
• 4:19
  Speaker 5: was like, you know.
• 4:20
  Speaker 9: What is that happening now?
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: So took us a minute to find out what exactly
• 4:27
  Speaker 5: his allegations that he was having and the reasons for it.
• 4:32
  Speaker 5: But when we heard, we were like, the judge asked
• 4:35
  Speaker 5: you every single one of those questions. You know, so
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: where you go erst, where you promise anything, were you
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: on drugs?
• 4:43
  Speaker 10: You know?
• 4:43
  Speaker 5: And everything? And I mean, it's a plea deal. I
• 4:46
  Speaker 5: think it's pretty straightforward. I think the average IQ person
• 4:50
  Speaker 5: can understand what a plea deal is.
• 4:53
  Speaker 9: It's not something super complicated.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: So hold on, I got to get the steak on solvice.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: But I just have to asked Nima Romani. Guys, when
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: this first broke, I immediately got on the horn with Ramani.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Why he knows what he's talking about? And we hashed
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: it through Nima Romani, former federal prosecutor turned trial lawyer,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: president of the former president of the West Coast Trial Lawyers,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: author of Harvard to hashtag. You can find him at
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: West Coast Trial Lawyers dot com.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Nima, this is doable.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: After you and I talked, I researched the law again
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: and it confirmed what you and I had talked about.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Let me get my notes Garza the Idaho straight out
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: of Idaho, and that is the Supremes. You remember at
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: the time, they kept saying he's giving up his right
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: to appeal. This plea deal means it's over forever. I'm
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: like No, it's not. I don't care what he says.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: He can always appeal under the sixth. There's always an
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: argument to be made that he was tricked, he was hoodwink,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: he didn't know what was happening in effective assistance of council. Yes,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: but no, that's what they told the victims in court.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: That was BS.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Then we called it and I'm calling it again. Yes,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: he can do this. He can appeal his guilty plea.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Then he'll be Lockhart. Also the supremes about how you
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: can't reverse a guilty plea. But practically speaking, Nama, what
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: the hay is going on?
• 6:30
  Speaker 8: Yeah, he's got to basically pigeonhole this petition into one
• 6:34
  Speaker 8: of really four legal arguments. He's got to argue that
• 6:38
  Speaker 8: the plea wasn't knowing and voluntary. I think it's going
• 6:40
  Speaker 8: to be tough because obviously we all heard the plea
• 6:43
  Speaker 8: callique right.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Let me sima, Nama, he's getting his pH d in criminology.
• 6:52
  Speaker 8: I think that's going to be the toughest one.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: It was knowing next, that's how I wrote it down.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: I'm marking it out.
• 6:58
  Speaker 8: Yeah, so let's put that away this second, as if
• 7:00
  Speaker 8: he's actually innocent Obviously that's not going to fly either.
• 7:04
  Speaker 8: There's no way the state is going to But that's
• 7:06
  Speaker 8: what happened with them.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I just choked. That didn't go down very well. Okay,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: we can count out actual innocence too. Okay, that's give
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: me your third choice.
• 7:15
  Speaker 8: Yeah, the third is prosecutorial misconduct, right, And of course
• 7:19
  Speaker 8: the state is never going to concede that that they
• 7:22
  Speaker 8: withheld Brady information or something that was impeachment. They didn't
• 7:27
  Speaker 8: comply with their obligations. There's no way the state's going
• 7:30
  Speaker 8: to concede that. So then you're really left with the
• 7:33
  Speaker 8: last one, which is the ineffective assistance of counsel. Right,
• 7:36
  Speaker 8: that's something and Taylor said or.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Did that was nama, nama. That's it.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: That's where they're going because from what I can gather
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: from this raggedy petition, he's claiming Brady or Brady Maryland
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: exculpatory material evidence that would tend to prove him innocent
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: or prove him in It could be something as simple
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: as a line of cross examination of state's witness, and
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: if the defense didn't know about it, then that could
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: have made a difference in whether the jury believe the witness.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: There's all sorts of permutations about what is exculpatory. He
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: seems to be claiming that the defense withheld Brady material
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: from their own client, that he didn't understand all of
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: the exculpatory evidence. He's going with ineffective and the sod
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: some of the dude did it.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: That's where he's going.
• 8:33
  Speaker 8: So then the question is what are his lawyers in
• 8:36
  Speaker 8: the state going to say. I can't see any world
• 8:38
  Speaker 8: where the prosecution is going to admit to withholding Brady evidence.
• 8:42
  Speaker 8: So the question is did his lawyers not provide it
• 8:45
  Speaker 8: to him? Are they going to confess error? If they
• 8:49
  Speaker 8: do and they fall on the sword, then potentially we
• 8:52
  Speaker 8: would have to start this over. The question is, though,
• 8:55
  Speaker 8: I don't think his lawyers are going to do that.
• 8:58
  Speaker 8: This was an amazing deal they see.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Him, No, if they think there is a way to
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: get him a new trial. I've seen the best lawyers
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: in town go in court and go, okay, I was
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: ineffective to help their client.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: Were they ineffective?
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: No, they were not, but they'll say it in a
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: further bid to help their client. And you know what
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: I want to happen. I want him to get his
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: wish straight up to Steve Gonsalvice. This is Keilly Gonsolvis's father,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: co founder of murder.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Has a name.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Please look it up, Steve. I want the state. Of course,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: you got to have an independent prosecutor. You can't have
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: that bag of bones up there trying to try this case.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: That's out, that's over. But I want them to give
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: him his wish.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: You want any trial.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Fine, we have regretted the pola ever since we did it,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: and here's our chance.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: Why can't we do that? Steve?
• 10:02
  Speaker 10: I don't know.
• 10:02
  Speaker 11: I think what do we get? Like ninety percent of
• 10:04
  Speaker 11: capital cases go out on a plea, and we never
• 10:06
  Speaker 11: made case law. I would love for this to be
• 10:09
  Speaker 11: case law in Idaho. And you know, we got the
• 10:12
  Speaker 11: fire and squad. Let's let it be very confident. I mean,
• 10:18
  Speaker 11: he's an idiot. I mean the amount of you got
• 10:21
  Speaker 11: to see the way that they had his vehicle mapped
• 10:23
  Speaker 11: out with all those cameras, it was going to be powerful.
• 10:25
  Speaker 11: They were literally going to be able to prove that
• 10:27
  Speaker 11: the phone and that car were traveling together and tie
• 10:31
  Speaker 11: it all.
• 10:31
  Speaker 6: So yeah, stand by it. Let let's let's put oles
• 10:34
  Speaker 6: in him. You know, let's let's shoot him. He's done.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Please please please take him to trial, give him his wish.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Straight out to Nate Eaton. He's the news director at
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: East Idaho News, Emmy nominated journalist host of Courtroom Insider
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: on YouTube. He has been on this case from the beginning,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Nate Eaton, is this guy actually claiming fabricated horror that
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: they showed him a photo of inside a death row
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: sale and said you better plead? The guy is a
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: getting his PhD in criminology. Nobody made him do anything,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: did they.
• 11:20
  Speaker 12: No.
• 11:21
  Speaker 13: But what's interesting to me, Nancy, is you talk about
• 11:23
  Speaker 13: how he says prison isn't what he expected. In his statement,
• 11:26
  Speaker 13: he said the public is demanding the truth. I'm curious
• 11:30
  Speaker 13: to know which public out there he's talking about. But
• 11:33
  Speaker 13: there's unanswered questions with each new piece of evidence unsealed.
• 11:37
  Speaker 13: Steve mentioned the car, the surveillance footage of his white
• 11:41
  Speaker 13: Lantra that was caught on camera at the home within
• 11:45
  Speaker 13: minutes of you know when, before the students were killed
• 11:48
  Speaker 13: and after? What about the k bar knife sheet? Remember
• 11:52
  Speaker 13: that was left behind and DNA trapped to Brian Coberger.
• 11:57
  Speaker 13: Not only that he purchased it on Amazon a nine sheet.
• 12:00
  Speaker 13: So the evidence that we have seen has led directly
• 12:04
  Speaker 13: to Brian Coberger.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know what.
• 12:06
  Speaker 13: Other evidence he's talking about. He didn't detail it in
• 12:10
  Speaker 13: his stay.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: And to look at the stat last night Nate Eaton,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: it was five point three seven five point three seven
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: octilion to one likelihood that it was anybody else's DNA
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: on the murder weapon knife sheath. Now it's my understanding.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Hold on Joe Scott here, I come. It's my understanding.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Coburger is stating that there was a quote, clump of
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: hair in one of the victim's hands and that it
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: suggested another defendant. What I've read elsewhere, and I'm going
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: to confirm this with Christy and Steve Gonsolvis. There was
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: one hair that was found that belonged to somebody else.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know where that one hair was, but we
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: all know it was the party house. You got four
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: co eds living together. I would be shocked if there
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: weren't parties at their house. There'd be something wrong if
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: their work parties at their house. So there's another hair,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: but his DNA is on the knife sheath. His sone
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: was quieted. He ordered the k bar knife. He was
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: out star gazing in that area at the time of
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: the murders. He was the one stalking them over and
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: over and over again. The evidence is overwhelming. So what
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: is the truth about the hair? He's claiming a clump
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: of hair that belonged to somebody else in the victim's hand.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: But I'm reading the defense forensic scientist said there was
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: one hair that may have belonged to somebody else.
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: So I have I have talked to the lead uh
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: uh investigator about this specifically and from ISP and he
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: and I asked when that when it came out in
• 14:13
  Speaker 5: the book, and he said, absolutely not. That's the most
• 14:18
  Speaker 5: ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
• 14:19
  Speaker 9: He said.
• 14:20
  Speaker 5: Ethan's hand had fallen behind the bed, and you know,
• 14:24
  Speaker 5: obviously blood ran down his arm. It's sticky. The floor,
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: you can't imagine, was not that clean. I mean, you
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: could behind an event. It's probably not that clean, you know,
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: and debris, dust, bunnies, dirt, all kinds of sorts of stuff,
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: you know, stuck to his hand.
• 14:43
  Speaker 9: He was, you know, it's stuck to his hand. They
• 14:47
  Speaker 9: packaged him up. I don't you know. They took him
• 14:51
  Speaker 9: out of the house and.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Transported him to the medical examiner.
• 14:57
  Speaker 5: Yes, and and when they you know, we're looking for
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: evidence and whatnot. This is what he had in his
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: hand or stuck to his hand. It was, by no
• 15:06
  Speaker 5: means a clump of hair that the book claims saying
• 15:11
  Speaker 5: that it was pulled out from the root.
• 15:15
  Speaker 9: Of somebody's hair.
• 15:16
  Speaker 11: This is basically gossip, a desperate attempt to find something
• 15:20
  Speaker 11: when you have no evidence in the facts, anything that
• 15:22
  Speaker 11: you've tried to lay out. I mean, he has no alibi,
• 15:25
  Speaker 11: he has nothing. So yeah, he's gonna.
• 15:28
  Speaker 6: Look for one photo with one piece of hair and
• 15:30
  Speaker 6: try to say what about that?
• 15:31
  Speaker 9: You know, Well, the guy wrote a book about it
• 15:33
  Speaker 9: and made a big deal about it.
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: Everybody freaked out about it and was like, oh my gosh,
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: the clump of hair in Ethan's hand. And I immediately
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: called and he was just like what And I said, well,
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: this is what this book says. He goes ridiculous.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, Okay, you know what.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: I just hope they bring that guy on the stand
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: and quote his book on cross examination, say what clump?
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Why did you say that? Okay, let me just ask
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: y'all straight out. You said you wanted this to go
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: to trial, as do I do. You still feel the
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: same way CHRISTI and Steve.
• 16:14
  Speaker 12: I do.
• 16:15
  Speaker 9: I mean I would.
• 16:16
  Speaker 5: I would love because I think that it would just
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: stop so much of these people just running their mouths
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: and this conspiracy theory at this point with as much
• 16:26
  Speaker 5: time gone by. I mean, I would have to, you know,
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: put myself in that state of mind again, which is
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: not an easy state of mind to put yourself in that.
• 16:34
  Speaker 9: You're moving, I mean, because we would have to physically
• 16:36
  Speaker 9: move for three months.
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: I mean we have animals, you know, we just can't
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: travel back and forth, so you know, we we would
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: have to make those family adjustments. But yeah, I mean
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: we're if that's what it comes down to, We're all
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: for it.
• 16:54
  Speaker 6: Certain cases.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Need Well, what about the possibility Steve Gon solves of
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: the death penalty?
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: You know, it's the firing squad that thing.
• 17:03
  Speaker 11: Yeah, honor of the victims before people died from a
• 17:06
  Speaker 11: low life that wasn't even a member of our community. Okay,
• 17:08
  Speaker 11: a complete stranger came into our commune and kill people
• 17:10
  Speaker 11: while they go to sleep.
• 17:11
  Speaker 6: If that doesn't, you know.
• 17:13
  Speaker 11: Invoke some kind of like prosecutor passion to actually have
• 17:18
  Speaker 11: pulled the law, then he probably doesn't have one. So Yeah,
• 17:21
  Speaker 11: I'm all for it. You know, if that's what they
• 17:24
  Speaker 11: that's what they decide to do, we'll be there. We'll
• 17:26
  Speaker 11: support the case and all the people did all the
• 17:28
  Speaker 11: hard work.
• 17:29
  Speaker 14: Yep.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: But what do you want, Steve.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's one thing for me to say, yes,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: I want a trial because I want to hear the truth.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: I want the world to know the truth. And we
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: didn't know the truth with that pathetic showing in court
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: at the time of the plea. Your daughter was the
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: only one with the to stand up and speak the truth. Okay,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: So I'd like a prosecutor that has a similar set
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: of right can we.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Find one of those?
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: I'd like to see how this plays out with a
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: real process and here the facts. For instance, tell me
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: what you were saying, Steve, about what was caught on
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: video that maybe the rest of the world doesn't know
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: about regarding his car and the phone and the car
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: traveling together.
• 18:16
  Speaker 11: Yeah, people can actually do this if they understand how
• 18:18
  Speaker 11: AI is. Just go in and tell it, take every
• 18:21
  Speaker 11: time that this car's on camera, and then cross coordinalate
• 18:25
  Speaker 11: it with the path that is known, and it'll do
• 18:27
  Speaker 11: a pretty good job of showing you what they went on.
• 18:30
  Speaker 11: But when you go back and you can figure the
• 18:33
  Speaker 11: times and the stamps and what he's on there, they
• 18:36
  Speaker 11: pinned that all the way down.
• 18:38
  Speaker 5: Once he turned his phone back on, they knew exactly
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: where it was, and they said his device was traveling
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: on this road, you know, through this camera.
• 18:46
  Speaker 9: That was definitely him, you know.
• 18:48
  Speaker 6: So whether it's all the way back to stadium, it.
• 18:51
  Speaker 9: Was somebody else.
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: It was somebody else that had his device and his
• 18:54
  Speaker 5: car traveling.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: So and when was that Chris State? When was his
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: phone identified traveling along with the car?
• 19:03
  Speaker 11: When at four his car turns on, he turns on
• 19:07
  Speaker 11: an app, a map application. At that point they get
• 19:10
  Speaker 11: further details and exactly where he was. So you cross
• 19:13
  Speaker 11: correlate that with the last time he's on there at
• 19:15
  Speaker 11: four twenty one or four to twenty, depending on what
• 19:17
  Speaker 11: you're going off. You can say, okay, what path I
• 19:20
  Speaker 11: think it was twenty seven minutes? Where would that get
• 19:23
  Speaker 11: him to? And then you define that four forty eight
• 19:26
  Speaker 11: where he turns it on, and they manage it almost
• 19:28
  Speaker 11: a matchup time.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Frame, and then the path it is him with his
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: GPS and his phone the night of the murders, going
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: to the murder scene.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: We know it was him, So all.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: This bs about you didn't get a tag number. We
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: got better than a visual on a tag number. We
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: have his GPS. Explain it one more time and put
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: it in slow mo. I want to make sure I
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: understand it, Steve.
• 19:57
  Speaker 11: Okay, So he's seen on a hammer called one one two,
• 20:02
  Speaker 11: turning right, and it's a timestamped at four to twenty
• 20:06
  Speaker 11: maybe four to twenty one leaving the scene. Yeah, he's
• 20:09
  Speaker 11: taking the right leaving the scene. He turns his phone
• 20:12
  Speaker 11: on at four forty eight. So then they go look
• 20:15
  Speaker 11: at that as a source of truth and say, okay,
• 20:17
  Speaker 11: where we seen him here last? And then we see
• 20:20
  Speaker 11: him down here that's where he's registered on the cell tellers.
• 20:24
  Speaker 11: They do the map and the drift the time twenty
• 20:27
  Speaker 11: seven minutes. It actually gets him exactly where he's turning
• 20:30
  Speaker 11: his phone on.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Nima Romani, former federal prosecutor, extraordinary attorney. How can I
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: get this thing to trial? Can the state Joanne with
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Kyerberger and go, you want to need a trial? Fine,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: you got it. Put it on the calendar. Can that happen?
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Or can the judge stop it?
• 20:53
  Speaker 8: The judge can stop it, But I think The easiest path,
• 20:56
  Speaker 8: and you nailed it is for the defense to submit
• 20:59
  Speaker 8: a declaration and saying that they were ineffective. Look, it's
• 21:02
  Speaker 8: the Strickland test, right, there's a manifest in justice. We
• 21:06
  Speaker 8: didn't tell our client this information. We misled our client.
• 21:10
  Speaker 8: If they put that in writing, it's a done deal.
• 21:13
  Speaker 8: But they got to fall on the sword, and you're right,
• 21:15
  Speaker 8: maybe they want to do that for their client. There's
• 21:17
  Speaker 8: really nothing the judge or the state can do to
• 21:20
  Speaker 8: stop it because we don't know what communications they had
• 21:24
  Speaker 8: with Coburger. And if they confess that type of error,
• 21:27
  Speaker 8: then it's game over and the judge has to grant
• 21:30
  Speaker 8: the motion and then I'll go to one another ten
• 21:33
  Speaker 8: or twelve other death penalty qualified lawyers in the state
• 21:36
  Speaker 8: of Idaho. It can't be them defending the case going forward.
• 21:40
  Speaker 8: That is the cleanest, the easiest path. The other way,
• 21:44
  Speaker 8: like you said, is if the state admits some sort
• 21:47
  Speaker 8: of error. I don't think they're going to do that.
• 21:50
  Speaker 8: I think that would also.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Not really claimbing that he's claiming.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, wait a minute, naming you mean this won't work legally.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: Quote my actual innocence is my truth, and the plea
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: used on false promises.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: End quote.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: All caps must be withdrawn. So he was misled about
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: job opportunities behind bars. Okay, I haven't seen that in
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: an appellate record yet, Jill ain't what is cracked up
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: to be? Give me a new trial. I want out. Okay,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: that's where this is going. Listen to this.
• 22:30
  Speaker 15: There was tons of DNA. By the way, I don't
• 22:33
  Speaker 15: know why it has been reported it was trace DNA.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: It was not.
• 22:35
  Speaker 15: There was tons of DNA. There was certainty in the
• 22:39
  Speaker 15: quality of the DNA, there was certainty in the analysis,
• 22:42
  Speaker 15: and there was certainty that there was more than enough
• 22:45
  Speaker 15: information in that tree to get to a person.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Those are two of the four most DNA experts in
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: the world, the Middlemans. And that's where our friends at
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Fox News at crime con Okay, Joe Scott Morgan, Joe Scott,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: before you get started, I want to give you, I
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: know you don't need one, but a little reality check
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: about what this case is about.
• 23:10
  Speaker 5: So I'm going through some of Kaylee's things and.
• 23:15
  Speaker 14: I just came across the sweatshirt that she was wearing
• 23:19
  Speaker 14: that night, and.
• 23:27
  Speaker 9: In the pocket.
• 23:31
  Speaker 10: Is your grub truck.
• 23:33
  Speaker 7: Number seventy eight.
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: Ticket.
• 23:48
  Speaker 7: I've been looking for it. It's the first thing that
• 23:50
  Speaker 7: I really found that I've been looking for.
• 23:53
  Speaker 6: It was in the top of a box.
• 23:55
  Speaker 7: And then when I looked in the pocket and I
• 23:58
  Speaker 7: found that ticket. Just takes you back to those hours,
• 24:05
  Speaker 7: those hours right before I had no idea what was
• 24:08
  Speaker 7: going to happen to them?
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: Terrible.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: That's Christy from the Gonsolvas Family Facebook. Joe Scott, what
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: are we.
• 24:23
  Speaker 10: Going to do? Man?
• 24:27
  Speaker 16: God bless you all. I can't even plumb the depths
• 24:32
  Speaker 16: of this. Uh, getting back to the to the evidence
• 24:37
  Speaker 16: at hand, I got to tell you something and going
• 24:43
  Speaker 16: back to what Steve and Christy had said earlier, and uh,
• 24:48
  Speaker 16: let the hide come with hairs? Would I say, if
• 24:50
  Speaker 16: he wants a fight, bring it on. Because going back
• 24:54
  Speaker 16: to what that clip that you showed of our friends
• 24:57
  Speaker 16: David and Kristen at author I felt all along that
• 25:01
  Speaker 16: there was going to be a just a plethora of
• 25:05
  Speaker 16: DNA evidence. And here's why I'm going to throw a
• 25:07
  Speaker 16: number out to you that we don't use this number
• 25:09
  Speaker 16: a lot when we're talking about these four precious lives. Okay,
• 25:14
  Speaker 16: we talked about the individual injuries, you know, per person,
• 25:20
  Speaker 16: But Nancy, I want to give you this number, one
• 25:22
  Speaker 16: hundred and fifty. One hundred and fifty injuries we're talking
• 25:26
  Speaker 16: about in total. Now, that's kind of an approximation because
• 25:29
  Speaker 16: the violence involved in this case, you have what we're
• 25:34
  Speaker 16: referred to or what I would refer to as communicating injuries.
• 25:38
  Speaker 16: So you have such a concentration of injuries that you'll
• 25:43
  Speaker 16: get this kind of cross pattern where you can't delineate it.
• 25:46
  Speaker 16: And of course you know this, this certainly happened with Kayley.
• 25:51
  Speaker 16: There's just certain things that you can't interpret specifically because
• 25:54
  Speaker 16: of the level of violence. But one hundred and fifty, Nancy,
• 25:57
  Speaker 16: just let that sink in. How are you going to
• 26:00
  Speaker 16: engage and this kind of violence and not have transfer
• 26:03
  Speaker 16: of DNA and you taking on DNA from an individual?
• 26:08
  Speaker 16: I can only imagine where else they're sourcing this from
• 26:12
  Speaker 16: points of contact? We go back and you know, my
• 26:16
  Speaker 16: old adage is always the card every contact leaves a trace,
• 26:21
  Speaker 16: and that principle holds true here. It's solid as the
• 26:25
  Speaker 16: day is long. And so when you think about the
• 26:28
  Speaker 16: violence that was exacted here, yeah, I think that there
• 26:33
  Speaker 16: is a solid underpinning of evidence here. And again, if
• 26:37
  Speaker 16: he you know, if he feels froggy, Let's jump, baby,
• 26:39
  Speaker 16: let's roll, because I want to see this evidence, and
• 26:42
  Speaker 16: going back from a prosecutorial standpoint, I want to see
• 26:46
  Speaker 16: somebody that's actually got the guts to go forward, stand
• 26:50
  Speaker 16: up and accuse him and direct him to offer up
• 26:55
  Speaker 16: an explanation for what happened. Of course we didn't see
• 26:58
  Speaker 16: that because there was no damn allocution and that was
• 27:00
  Speaker 16: not required of him. He gets to live on Easy
• 27:03
  Speaker 16: Street and undutney.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Nima Ramani, Is there any way this can happen?
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: How dare he? After all he has put everybody through.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: It's all about.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Me, me me, me, me, me, me, me me me.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: I don't like jail. This wasn't what it's cracked up
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: to be. I was lied to, I was mistreated. Every
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Senate starts with I is there a way.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: To give him what he wants?
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Because I'd like to put it three inches right up
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: his tailpipe. Listen.
• 27:36
  Speaker 8: I would love a trial too, just like everyone else.
• 27:39
  Speaker 8: I think there's no world where he's actually innocent. He
• 27:41
  Speaker 8: will be convicted, he will be sentenced to death, but
• 27:45
  Speaker 8: I don't think it's going to happen, Nancy. This is
• 27:47
  Speaker 8: a final judgment. The law wants to keep these judgments final.
• 27:52
  Speaker 8: We can have every criminal defendant come when both.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Parties don't want it to be final both it's funny.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: You have to show they can demand.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: I can't just enter you a US Supreme Court that
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: can undo a guilty play. All this business about a
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: plea is unappealable. That's crap, that's not true. I can't
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: believe they even said that to start with.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Do they not have a law book?
• 28:18
  Speaker 8: Well, listen, there has to be a constitutional violation. So
• 28:21
  Speaker 8: if the parties agree that there's a constitutional violation, of course,
• 28:26
  Speaker 8: but they can't just enter into a stipulation. It's not
• 28:28
  Speaker 8: like just putting a piece of evidence in or saying, hey,
• 28:31
  Speaker 8: we want to do over. There has to be a
• 28:33
  Speaker 8: legal basis to unwind this. Absent a constitutional violation, we're
• 28:38
  Speaker 8: not going to be able to get there. It's not
• 28:40
  Speaker 8: enough for the prosecution of the defense to say, you
• 28:41
  Speaker 8: know what, we've changed our mind, we want to do over.
• 28:45
  Speaker 8: This was a bad deal because the millions are thinking the.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Best bet is ineffective. Ineffective assistance. Now because I actual innocence, it's.
• 28:54
  Speaker 10: Not going to work.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Not knowing and.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Voluntary that's not going to work. We're that didn't happen.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: So all we're left with is ineffective.
• 29:07
  Speaker 8: That's all we're left with. So unless say tell it.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: He's crazy like a fox, because that's what he's claiming
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: in this petition, that his lawyers did not give him
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: the whole truth, that they withheld exculpatory evidence from him
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: to get him to plead guilty. He's saying it was
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: all a fabrication. Is that what he's saying, Nate Eaton,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: is all a big fabrication.
• 29:30
  Speaker 13: It was a lie, that's what he's saying, Nancy. One
• 29:34
  Speaker 13: interesting thing is the Attorney General for the state of
• 29:37
  Speaker 13: Idaho came out and said, my office stands ready to
• 29:40
  Speaker 13: do whatever is necessary to ensure justice is fully carried out.
• 29:46
  Speaker 13: He didn't say there's no chance that this will advance
• 29:49
  Speaker 13: that if the judge denies it. It sounds like the
• 29:50
  Speaker 13: attorney general is ready and willing to help. So let's
• 29:54
  Speaker 13: say a prosecutor from the Attorney General's office steps in
• 29:57
  Speaker 13: and says, okay, we'll prosecute the case from this state level.
• 30:01
  Speaker 13: And then Coburger, who's going to represent him if this proceeds, is,
• 30:04
  Speaker 13: you know, represent himself. He is writing his own legal briefs.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: No, there are plenty of lawyers that would do it
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: just for the pr You know, I appreciate what the
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: State ag said, Labrador, but where the hay was the
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: age when this plea was going down? Okay, when everybody
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: across the country was screaming, including the Gonsalvest family, where
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: were they? Then?
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: You know what, if they're going to come late to
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: the party, great, come on.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: But no, that's but another thing this does is it
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: opens up a possibility the Feds might step in, because
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: if that plea is undone, the Feds could jump in.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Steve Gonsolves, they could.
• 30:40
  Speaker 11: Yeah, we've always had speaks and talks about the Feds
• 30:44
  Speaker 11: doing that, and you know that now that they're pro
• 30:49
  Speaker 11: death penalty. Before they were kind of wishy washy, and
• 30:52
  Speaker 11: they gave a bunch of petitions so people didn't have
• 30:56
  Speaker 11: to be on the death penditty they got them off.
• 30:57
  Speaker 11: So yeah, I would love to see a real prosecuting
• 31:01
  Speaker 11: service that we could get.
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we've all often wondered why it wasn't federal, but
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: when this happened, it was under Biden administration, and the
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: FBI told us then they could prosecute. But they could
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: not prosecute for death penalty, so we were like, just
• 31:21
  Speaker 5: leave it with Bill Thompson, then leave it with Lethal County.
• 31:25
  Speaker 9: So obviously things have changed and he's not.
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: Ei're no longer under the Biden administration, and the FBI
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: can pursue the death penalty, so that would be great.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Best of the best joining us now.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, renown psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: She is the author of deal Breakers. You can see
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: on her on Hulu, on Peacock, on Netflix brand new
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: hit podcast On the Couch with Doctor Bethany Marshall. You
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: can find her at doctor Bethan Marshall dot com. Okay
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: hit at Bethany thoughts.
• 32:05
  Speaker 12: Well, mister and missus Gonsalves, I loved your most recent
• 32:08
  Speaker 12: Facebook post about the fact that Brian Coberger is a mosquito.
• 32:13
  Speaker 12: You can't seem to squash, but you know, sadly it's worse.
• 32:18
  Speaker 12: My clinical experience leads me to believe that you are
• 32:23
  Speaker 12: only the person the only people he can victimize right now.
• 32:26
  Speaker 12: In other words, he's a killing machine. He likely had
• 32:30
  Speaker 12: other victims on the radar, likely the family of the
• 32:34
  Speaker 12: existing four were on the radar, meaning you were in
• 32:38
  Speaker 12: on his radar. And you know he has too much time,
• 32:43
  Speaker 12: free access to a law library, raary. He's in solitary confinement.
• 32:47
  Speaker 12: So how does he act out his murderous impulses without
• 32:52
  Speaker 12: a victim right in front of him, without access to
• 32:54
  Speaker 12: future victims?
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: What does he do?
• 32:56
  Speaker 12: He lashes out at you. That's worse than a mosquito.
• 33:01
  Speaker 12: That's somebody who, if he was not behind bars, would
• 33:05
  Speaker 12: maybe have you in his sights.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, I want your analysis. He's basically saying, my
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: defense team they all lie to me. They fabricated this
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: whole thing, and they misled me about life behind bars. Translation,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: guess what jail like? What's cracked up to be?
• 33:26
  Speaker 12: Dr Bethany, Well, our most strongest impulse is the survival instinct, right,
• 33:32
  Speaker 12: So he wants to survive, he wants to be out.
• 33:34
  Speaker 12: He's delusional, he thinks he might get out. He's a
• 33:37
  Speaker 12: criminal law you know, student PhD student, and so he
• 33:42
  Speaker 12: thinks he's above the law and he can twist the law.
• 33:45
  Speaker 12: But I think primarily it's all self referential, and you know, Nancy, Interestingly,
• 33:50
  Speaker 12: he is throwing his defense team under the bus, which
• 33:54
  Speaker 12: shows me how dispensable everybody is to him. His mother
• 33:58
  Speaker 12: and father now have to come into court. They have
• 34:01
  Speaker 12: cried in previous appearances and when he's you know, been
• 34:06
  Speaker 12: in court and in various cases appearances, and now he's
• 34:11
  Speaker 12: subjecting his family to torture as well as the consolves
• 34:16
  Speaker 12: family and all the other families. So they're dispensable to
• 34:20
  Speaker 12: his own family. Would they have been on the radar
• 34:23
  Speaker 12: as well? It's hard to know.
• 34:41
  Speaker 10: She's not working up.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, one moment, I'm going to help her.
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: That way, we'll give you yeah, yeah, okay. And how
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: old is she?
• 35:04
  Speaker 10: Tom?
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: She's twenty twenty?
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: You said, yes, twenty, here's okay?
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Hello, hello, okay, I need someone to stops passing the
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: phone around because I've talked to four different people.
• 35:19
  Speaker 10: Sorry, they just gave me the phone.
• 35:20
  Speaker 12: Is she breathing?
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: Hello?
• 35:23
  Speaker 10: Is she breathing?
• 35:25
  Speaker 12: No?
• 35:26
  Speaker 16: Okay, let me secure the outside first.
• 35:39
  Speaker 6: Remember there's a backgand for you.
• 35:41
  Speaker 11: I was gonna start taking it all off.
• 35:44
  Speaker 10: Okay, there, all right, already does that? I got in there,
• 36:00
  Speaker 10: shutting down.
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: There, and then ultimately her walking up, I heard her
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: scream and she ran downstairs because she saw someone. That's
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: but I'm pretty sure. She said she someone's here and
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: she's screamed and just ran downstairs and I called for
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: a name. They jumped up and locked my doors. I
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: was so scared, and then I heard someone in the
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: bathroom when I heard her crying, and I heard some guys,
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: you're gonna be okay to help you.
• 36:28
  Speaker 6: And I kept calling your.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Name, but she wasn't answering.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: And then I opened the door for a second and
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: I saw this.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Guy from our friends at Law and Crime, Christy. While
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: we are bandying back and for the possibilities of a trial,
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: that is what happened. We may have a chance at justice.
• 36:51
  Speaker 6: Christy, absolutely, and that's why we asked for concessions. We
• 37:00
  Speaker 6: knew that this was going to happen.
• 37:01
  Speaker 11: We actually foretell the whole thing, and people looked at
• 37:04
  Speaker 11: us like we're crazy, and we're like, well, we're talking
• 37:07
  Speaker 11: about a psychopath who literally has a search history on
• 37:09
  Speaker 11: his phone saying psychopath paranoia. I think people are after
• 37:14
  Speaker 11: me all that stuff phoned being tapped. He's a psychopath,
• 37:19
  Speaker 11: so of course he's going to try to do everything
• 37:21
  Speaker 11: in his possible power to try to drag us through
• 37:25
  Speaker 11: the mud and put us through all this and.
• 37:27
  Speaker 6: I just needed a prosecutor who just do concessions. Just
• 37:31
  Speaker 6: a couple. Man.
• 37:32
  Speaker 11: All he needed to do was get just a couple,
• 37:34
  Speaker 11: and we just all would have went away.
• 37:36
  Speaker 5: I mean, we did want the trial, but when we
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: found out it was a play, we begged. We have emails,
• 37:44
  Speaker 5: we have phone calls, we had meetings. We were begging
• 37:47
  Speaker 5: for some sort of concessions.
• 37:49
  Speaker 9: Can we at least ask.
• 37:51
  Speaker 5: This, Can we at least have them, you know, admit
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: to this or ask them where this is?
• 37:55
  Speaker 9: And they were just like no.
• 37:57
  Speaker 11: We went so far to tell our audience on our
• 38:00
  Speaker 11: Facebook to call Hippler viewer from Idaho, be respectful and
• 38:04
  Speaker 11: call and say, hey, decline this plea deal. That's the
• 38:08
  Speaker 11: only option we have according to our legal council. That's
• 38:11
  Speaker 11: all we could do.
• 38:11
  Speaker 9: The judge could could have said so.
• 38:13
  Speaker 11: That he got so upset about it. He said, I'm
• 38:16
  Speaker 11: going to turn each one of these people to the police.
• 38:19
  Speaker 9: He yelled at us in court at the plea deal.
• 38:21
  Speaker 5: He yelled at us, and I was like, you're an
• 38:24
  Speaker 5: elected official and said that we these are voting matters.
• 38:27
  Speaker 5: We interrupted the day of court and people weren't able
• 38:31
  Speaker 5: to get their jobs done. The receptionists weren't able to
• 38:33
  Speaker 5: answer their phone, their emails were full, their voicemailers were full,
• 38:39
  Speaker 5: and it wasn't like I was privy to his email
• 38:43
  Speaker 5: address or.
• 38:43
  Speaker 6: The phone number.
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: And then I gave out. We were just like, contact
• 38:48
  Speaker 5: the judge, contact the court.
• 38:49
  Speaker 6: Well, he's going to elect the official. So it is
• 38:51
  Speaker 6: what it is, and yeah.
• 38:53
  Speaker 9: We got it in the beginning.
• 38:54
  Speaker 5: If you listen to the plea deal and he's chewing
• 38:57
  Speaker 5: somebody out, it's us.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying it is what it is. I'm saying,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: take the case to trial for once, prosecutor, do the
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: right thing for the Coburger victims family. Tell me something,
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author star
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: a Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan, death investigator, Joe Scott,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: just tell me we can get a conviction, right if
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: we take this thing to trial.
• 39:31
  Speaker 16: Right, Yeah, let's think. Let's think about the forensic evidence
• 39:35
  Speaker 16: from the perspective of engineering. You have a framework that's
• 39:38
  Speaker 16: laid out here, Okay, And I'm not saying that it
• 39:41
  Speaker 16: is absolutely perfect. There is nothing in our world that
• 39:44
  Speaker 16: is perfect. However, if you look from an evidentiary standpoint,
• 39:48
  Speaker 16: from a physical evidence standpoint, from a digital standpoint. It's
• 39:53
  Speaker 16: all there. It's there that you just have to have
• 39:57
  Speaker 16: somebody that has the intestinal fortitude, dude, to hang everything
• 40:02
  Speaker 16: on this structure, to build it out, to push it forward.
• 40:06
  Speaker 16: That's why I said earlier, if he wants to do this,
• 40:10
  Speaker 16: do it. Absolutely do it. But again it's you know,
• 40:13
  Speaker 16: we can only do so much at a crime scene
• 40:16
  Speaker 16: and a lab at the me's office. All we can
• 40:20
  Speaker 16: do is just to offer up our findings. And it
• 40:24
  Speaker 16: still it baffled me, baffles me to this day, after
• 40:27
  Speaker 16: all of these years, that they did not have the
• 40:31
  Speaker 16: ability within themselves to call upon themselves to say, hey,
• 40:36
  Speaker 16: we got a slam dunk here, we're going to move
• 40:38
  Speaker 16: this forward. For some reason they decided to go down
• 40:42
  Speaker 16: this road. But it still exists, Nancy, All of this
• 40:44
  Speaker 16: hard work still exists. All they have to do is
• 40:47
  Speaker 16: take those first steps.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: And maybe even more Joe Scott, because you know how
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: evidence and witnesses seem to come out of the woodwork
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: once it's all said and done, or so they think,
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: okayor Bethany Marshall, he says this as justice getting a trial,
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: He's not happy with life behind bars? Is it there's
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: some kind of clinical name for this.
• 41:15
  Speaker 12: Guy, selfish, self absorbed, fist criteria for a psychopath. Not
• 41:21
  Speaker 12: only in that he is creating some sense of excitement
• 41:25
  Speaker 12: by going to the law library and then writing up
• 41:28
  Speaker 12: these scribbled, handwritten and also you know, text briefs, but
• 41:33
  Speaker 12: the fact that he continues to have access to victims
• 41:37
  Speaker 12: through these filings. That's what I think, is what I
• 41:41
  Speaker 12: really want to put front and center, is this person
• 41:46
  Speaker 12: is homicidal. This person compulsively wants to kill. He wants
• 41:51
  Speaker 12: to draw blood. If he is denied access to that,
• 41:56
  Speaker 12: what is he going to do? He's going to kill
• 41:58
  Speaker 12: and draw blood in other ways, It's just like an
• 42:02
  Speaker 12: alcoholic who is told they can never drink again, so
• 42:06
  Speaker 12: they start ordering mocktails or they romanticize the drink. He's
• 42:10
  Speaker 12: romanticizing the process because it is exciting. Psychopaths they suffer
• 42:16
  Speaker 12: from under arousal and internal emptiness. They cannot find joy
• 42:22
  Speaker 12: in the small things in life. They only find joys
• 42:26
  Speaker 12: in a highly stimulating situation, which is usually killing. If
• 42:31
  Speaker 12: he can't be stimulated in that way, he's stimulating himself
• 42:36
  Speaker 12: through self pity and preoccupation with the victims' families.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Nate et Knees, Director East Idaho News Nate, what happens now?
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: Has the judge even bothered to put a hearing on
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: the calendar.
• 42:54
  Speaker 13: As of today, there's no hearing on the calendar, but
• 42:56
  Speaker 13: I would imagine the judge will have to hold a
• 42:58
  Speaker 13: hearing on this will appear in court, likely with his
• 43:02
  Speaker 13: counsel that he's had all along. If they decide to
• 43:05
  Speaker 13: say they're ineffective counsel, as we've discussed on this program today,
• 43:09
  Speaker 13: then he could be appointed new attorneys. The judge could
• 43:12
  Speaker 13: take it under invisement issue of ruling say no, there's
• 43:15
  Speaker 13: no grounds here. But I imagine Coburger will take this
• 43:18
  Speaker 13: all the way to the Supreme Court. I could see
• 43:20
  Speaker 13: him continually filing these things. If a new trial date
• 43:24
  Speaker 13: is state is set, Nancy, I think it's going to
• 43:27
  Speaker 13: be at least a year out, maybe two years out.
• 43:29
  Speaker 13: It's a death penalty case. You have to line things out.
• 43:32
  Speaker 13: So this is something that unfortunately is going to take months,
• 43:35
  Speaker 13: perhaps years.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Okay, fine, I can do that final word.
• 43:43
  Speaker 9: Christy and Steve, Well, we're just going to have to
• 43:47
  Speaker 9: see what happened.
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: We're just going to have to see what the judge does,
• 43:52
  Speaker 5: be there at the court appearances like we were before,
• 43:55
  Speaker 5: and follow it through. I mean, all we were able
• 43:59
  Speaker 5: to do before or was just roll with the punches,
• 44:02
  Speaker 5: and that's all we're going to be able to do now.
• 44:04
  Speaker 5: I mean, it's it's it's all in the judge's hands
• 44:07
  Speaker 5: and and obviously the Council at this point, if they're
• 44:11
  Speaker 5: going to say yes, we were ineffective, or the prosecution
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: state say yes we like about exculpatory evidence, it's completely
• 44:20
  Speaker 5: out of our hands and all we could do is
• 44:22
  Speaker 5: show up and we will continue to do that.
• 44:26
  Speaker 11: I hope his day of manipulating all these core processes
• 44:29
  Speaker 11: come to an end. We were unseiling things, things were
• 44:32
  Speaker 11: slowly coming out. I hope that doesn't come to an end.
• 44:35
  Speaker 11: We all deserve the truth. And when you have a
• 44:37
  Speaker 11: prisoner who sits there is able to manipulate things and
• 44:41
  Speaker 11: they start rewarding him by not unseiling, then you know
• 44:45
  Speaker 11: they're making they're making a standard for others to follow.
• 44:48
  Speaker 6: So let's hope.
• 44:49
  Speaker 5: And and and I do want to say that I'm
• 44:51
  Speaker 5: sorry to the State of Idaho, to the community that
• 44:55
  Speaker 5: you know as taxpayers that this.
• 44:58
  Speaker 9: Is uh this, this has.
• 45:00
  Speaker 5: Been so expensive and just continues to run. And I
• 45:03
  Speaker 5: see a lot of people say, you know what, we
• 45:05
  Speaker 5: don't want to put, you know, end it because of
• 45:07
  Speaker 5: the costs.
• 45:08
  Speaker 9: I understand that. But on the other hand, you know, this.
• 45:11
  Speaker 5: Is our child, and if it was your child, you know,
• 45:14
  Speaker 5: you might feel a little differently. But we do understand that.
• 45:18
  Speaker 5: We you know, we don't want to dismiss that. But
• 45:21
  Speaker 5: how much is your child worth?
• 45:23
  Speaker 9: Yea, you know there's there's no dollar amount that you
• 45:26
  Speaker 9: can put on that.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: Everyone whinds about our tax dollars being misspent. Finally, our
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: tax dollars would be spent for a good cause. Nothing
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: to complain about. There we wait as justice unfolds, God willing. Finally,
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: in this case, we remember an American hero, Sergeant Edmund Murray,
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: New York PD, passed away in the line of duty,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: leaving behind parents, Marine and Bartholomew. American hero Sergeant Edmund Murray.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you to our guests, but especially to you being
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: with us tonight. Nancy Gray signing off, but I'll see
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: you tomorrow night, and until then, good night, Friendly