Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Paraplanners – The Engine Behind a Truly Successful Financial Planning Firm | Sam Patterson

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Paraplanners – The Engine Behind a Truly Successful Financial Planning Firm | Sam Patterson · Financial Planner Life Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_01: And today's guest on the Financial Planner Life podcast is Sam Patterson from the Patterson Group.
0:06
SPEAKER_01: Sam has a wealth of experience within the financial planning profession.
0:10
SPEAKER_01: He's been a power planner, a power planning manager.
0:13
SPEAKER_01: He helps design and create exam questions.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: And he's a consultant for financial planning firms.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: And if you run a financial planning company, you need to listen to this podcast episode.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: We're going to take a deep dive into how to motivate your back office team.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: That includes power planners.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: And if you are a power planner, we're going to educate you on what you can do to add value to your company to secure you a pay rise and a promotion.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: An excellent episode this week.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: You are going to love it.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: Sam, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: How are you?
0:57
SPEAKER_00: Very well, thank you.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: You're more than welcome.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: And this is our second meeting in the last week because last week you joined me for a roundtable discussion in the Financial Planner Life Academy, didn't you?
1:10
SPEAKER_01: That was we're just talking about that.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: It was really good, wasn't it?
1:13
SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I thought you would be sick to death for me by now.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: But no, as you said, it was excellent.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: It was, I've never had that before where you've got an administrator, a power planner, and a few advisors sat around a table discussing all thing financial planning.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: Really informal, some great conversation.
1:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, though I enjoyed it.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Looking forward to the next one.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I loved it as well.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: And it I think the the idea of the round table was, especially for our audience, specifically within the Financial Planner Life Academy, is to give them some content.
1:40
SPEAKER_01: But what we want to do is sort of take into consideration that they don't really know the ins and outs of how uh the what the process is within financial planning based on the individuals that do each step of the f you know, each each step, you know.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: So you had an admin, a power planner, operation, you know, um a financial planner who sold a business, a financial planner that was employed, chartered, it was and power planner and power planner manager.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: So it was to me, it was just like brilliant.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: So how can we get everyone talking about a process who and everybody can chip in at the bit that they do?
2:10
SPEAKER_01: And I thought it was really good.
2:11
SPEAKER_01: So I'm keen to see and hear the feedback from people and about how we can develop that further.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: And then you're kind of coming into my community now as a mentor and someone I can lean into.
2:20
SPEAKER_01: And it's something that you add value because what I love about your background and your experience, which you're going to share with us in a minute, is that you consult companies about back office, about power planning.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: You've worked as a power planner, you've been a manager.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, so you're able to, and you're part of the um power planner club, aren't you?
2:37
SPEAKER_01: With Shao Davies coal setup, so you're a mentor.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: So I think you're a great, just a great guy to really lean into and for people to learn from.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm really, really pleased we're connected.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: Another great example of what the Financial Planner Life Academy is all about and what we're trying to do.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: We're trying to not just get you passing your qualifications, we're trying to give you career education and upskilling you in the things that you need to do in the jobs you're going to go for.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: And it's not just financial advice, it's power planning, admin, compliance.
3:03
SPEAKER_01: It's different roles for different people based on different skill sets, isn't it?
3:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: It is as I said, it's I think it's an excellent way that you look at everyone thinks, how do you progress?
3:14
SPEAKER_00: And everyone thinks qualifications, that's how you progress.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: And you go, I'm chartered myself, and that's what I'd always worked for is I need to do my exams.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: I studied and studied and studied, and I got chartered, and I thought I've made it.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: And the next day I went, nothing's changed.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've got some letters after my name, and yes, I've it has a level of credibility, a bit of a market value that comes with that, but nothing really changes.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: So it's like that's what my business now is a lot of is going to businesses and going, how can you maximize your profits?
3:47
SPEAKER_00: Now I'm not saying maximize your profits, do some underhand, backhanded, really simple.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: To me, does complexity add value or does it detract from value?
3:57
SPEAKER_00: I think complexity detracts from value.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: So, how do you get more profits?
4:01
SPEAKER_00: You empower your team, you get more from your team, they will give a better service to your clients, that will refer more clients, that makes the shareholders happily.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: So to me, it's invest in your team, get the most out of your team, it's win-the-win for everyone.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's fantastic.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: So you're going into businesses and you're offering that consultancy services, financial planning firms specifically, um, your background then uh in power planning and operations, I guess.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: And allows you to see things from a different perspective because you've been there, done it, got the t-shirt.
4:31
SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes often the back office and the front office, especially within financial planning, can be quite disconnected.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, and there needs to be more communication and more understanding and simplicity and fluidity.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, but also personalities-wise, there's different job roles, there's different expectations on each person's shoulder, and you can create kind of negativity around that.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: I've I I've I've so many power planners feel undervalued, for example, in financial planning firms, and they they feel like they want a pay rise and they don't know how to do it, they don't know how to the financial planner just thinks, you know, I go out and do the work, so you know, I'm giving you the bit the work to do, so I'm keeping you a giving you a job.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: And it there's a lot, sometimes there's a lot of old school thinking around it.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't feel very joined up and very team-based.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: So I love what you're doing there, and I think we should definitely get into the some of the complexities and how to decomplex some something, and what are some of the key things that you're seeing within firms that they can do better?
5:21
SPEAKER_01: Let's start with that one.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: What when you're going into these firms, what are the usual typical things that people are doing that are wrong and that are real quick fixes?
5:29
SPEAKER_01: So a business owner listens to this now.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: What's a quick fix for a business owner when you go into their firms to improve their business, either productivity or um to declutter it?
5:39
SPEAKER_01: What what tell us some of the things that are problems and how you're sorting it out?
5:43
SPEAKER_00: I think a key problem in industry, and I'm sure people listening, whether you're business owners, reflecting on what you have, whether you're a power planner, whether you're an administrator, whether you're an advisor.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: You can fall into the trap of becoming pigeonhole.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: That is your role.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: I'm an administrator, this is my job role, that is my role.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, you don't like your power planner, you don't perhaps like the sales target.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: The sales targets that come with being an advisor is part of you are it very often a target, target-driven job.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: So therefore, you can't have any client contact.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: You are a business owner looking to exit.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: You've worked through your life, you've built up a business, you're looking to take an exit, but you're really struggling to find another financial advisor.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: But that's the only way you can go.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: One of the advisors that I'm working with at the moment, exactly that mid-60s, work for 30 years, they've grown a business, but I think they employ about 15 people.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: Now they want to have a couple of grandchildren now, they want to start spending some more time with the family.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: But how do you exit that?
6:46
SPEAKER_00: Because so this gentleman, it's not just a business, he is he is advising friends, business people he's worked with for over 30 years, and suddenly go, Sam, it's been excellent to work there over the last 30 years.
6:59
SPEAKER_00: We've made a great financial plan for you.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: I've met your family, I've put your intergenerational plan to the butt.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: Actually, someone's offered me some money now, so see you later.
7:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: And what I've been speaking, he just could not find the right fit.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: He tried to find the financial advisor to come in and it just wasn't the right fit for whatever reason.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: And I bumped into this guy at a uh a networking event and it started off as a conversation going, what happens if you didn't have to completely exit?
7:25
SPEAKER_00: And he went, Well, how's that happening?
7:27
SPEAKER_00: And have you got power planners?
7:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, got a couple, been there for 10 plus years.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, they've always wanted to be power planners.
7:34
SPEAKER_00: That's they are what I would call the rock star.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: They are the they are the base, that is what that that firm is based on.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: Said, well, how are the how's their knowledge?
7:43
SPEAKER_00: Excellent knowledge, they know the clients, they really care.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: What about getting them more involved?
7:48
SPEAKER_00: And they never thought about what you mean.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: Went well, start upskilling with power planners.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: They can deal with some of the ongoing maintenance of clients, of the annual reviews, fielding queries, invest, but I think today inflation at 4.9% might have some client queries on that.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: Uh, they can field those queries to free up the owner, the main financial advisor, to go, I'm only going to work two days a week.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: And actually, all I'm gonna do for those two days a week, because my time's really valuable.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna sit in front of new clients, I'm gonna sit in front of my old larger clients.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: That's what I enjoy doing.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: So actually, it doesn't feel like work, and then he still keeps ownership.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: People in his off his office feel empowered, they feel like they're taking a step up.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: Financially, you can share, share around some of that.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: So it's again, it's win-win, and that's just because he's got his head around, really not thinking a power planner.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: They sit behind the computer, they come up with the plan, they come up with the the technical aspects to it, but they don't have client content.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: That's not what they do.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: So really work with him with getting over that.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: And did you find that um that's really interesting?
8:57
SPEAKER_01: And and what a great way to look at it as well.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: So there is a financial planner, they can't find the right buyer.
9:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, their clients are like their friends and their family, and they hold a deep relationship with them, and they're very nervous about selling it to a consolidator with all the negativity and and things that go along with that, or they don't like the personality of the person that might be buying it, they're worried, worried they're just gonna chop it up and get rid of the clients they don't care about and keep the ones they want.
9:19
SPEAKER_01: And and it is a worry.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: I used to run a company called Gunnerin Co., which is a client acqu an acquisition business.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: I set it up, an IFA acquisition business.
9:27
SPEAKER_01: And I really got to understand the uh the connection between the advisors and or the advisor, the business owner and the and the clients.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's their baby at the end of the day.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: And you know, again to popular belief, they're not all just looking to get the best price when they sell their business.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: And what a wonderful thing to look at there in respect of like the power planners within the business.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: So he was what is he, one man bam, was he, like one advisor.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: So a couple of power planners administrators, power planner administrator.
9:54
SPEAKER_01: Okay, and the but the power planner then, let's look at that then.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: The power planners, did you when you sort of advised him on that and you said, look, why don't you look at what your power planners are doing?
10:02
SPEAKER_01: Why don't we upskill them to make them client-facing?
10:05
SPEAKER_01: So they weren't client-facing power planners at that point.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: No.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so interesting.
10:11
SPEAKER_01: Now, when you spoke to those power planners or when you influenced him about that and the it was positioned to them that why don't you step up to now actually sit in front of clients and deliver um some of the things that the advisor was doing?
10:23
SPEAKER_01: What was their response?
10:26
SPEAKER_00: The initially the power planner was a bit oh yeah, that's not in my lane, that's not what I do.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we got talking.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: So I said, Sam, you're a power planner.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: Do you have any clients?
10:39
SPEAKER_00: No, don't like client contact.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, let me rephrase that.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: Do you have external clients?
10:45
SPEAKER_00: No.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: What about internal clients?
10:48
SPEAKER_00: And suddenly you can see the cog starting to work, and you go, okay, let's build on that.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: I think all power planners have clients, they're just internal ones.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: So it's how do you manage your relationship with the advisors?
10:59
SPEAKER_00: They are asking you questions, perhaps coming with you queries when you don't quite want them, you have to listen to their points of view, you have to put your points of view back to them.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: It's exactly what an advisor does with a client.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: So I was speaking to I sat down with a power planner and the advisor, uh the owner, and said, Okay, so let's think of the skills the great advisor needs: empathetic listening, time management, probably being quite comfortable in delegating.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: Now, these things are the base of the pyramid.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: It's only the top where you go career power planner, team manager, or advisor.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: It's the top bit, but the base foundations skills are pretty much the same.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: So it's trying to build on that way, going, look, Mr.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: PowerPlanner, you've not quite, you've never done it before.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: I can understand you're a bit unnerved by this.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: It's a jump into the unknown.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, but actually, when you talk about your existing skills, all we're doing is using your existing skills for different target audience.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: But there's nothing new here, it's just a different way of presenting it.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
12:04
SPEAKER_01: And I think what probably is living inside of them is that also feeling like putting the client almost on a bit of a pedestal or putting the advisor on a bit of a pedestal that, well, I can't do that.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: And you're absolutely right.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: The tip of the that's like the tip of the iceberg bit, isn't it?
12:16
SPEAKER_01: But actually, all the bases, all the skill sets are exactly the same, the foundations.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: And if anything, actually, power planners are positioned to understand it probably better, I believe, than the financial planner.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: And that's not taken away from a financial planner like they don't know as much as a power planner, but it's day-in, day out organization, it's day in, day out research and detail and attention to detail and the compliance ticking and all of those sort of getting the documentation in, the organizational skills, often the things that are lacking actually with a financial planner because they're more involved in the good things that they enjoy, which might well be sitting in front of a client, going out and meeting somebody, networking events, things that they find easy for them to do.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, absolutely spot on.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: And then I wonder how many power planners do sit in the role of power planning, though, and really do actually want to be a financial planner, but are in firms where the financial planner wants to keep them in the power planner role and not actually nurture the desire or ambition that they have to be an advisor.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: Do you come across that often?
13:17
SPEAKER_00: Come across that.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: I also come from the the other side, which is a power planner's at a firm where the firm's saying, You you're going to become an advisor, and they're going, Am I?
13:28
SPEAKER_00: It's what happened with me.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: I've been in, I was in industry for about a decade, employed as it for about a decade, and being in power planning, a traditional power planner role, a more modern hybrid power planner role, and then as you said, um, for half my time was managing a team, becoming head of sort of the training and stuff for that.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: I was always told you should be an advisor.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: Sam, you can communicate well, you know your stuff, you're chartered, you I'm quite myself personally quite outgoing.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: I get my energy from other people.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: So you should be an advisor, and it just it never really connected with me.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: It just something never clicked me, and that's what until I was chatting to when my advisor at my old firm and said, if it's for the money, don't.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: And I went, Ah, so let's go talk about that.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: And he went, he said, Sam, imagine coming to work every single day.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: You've worked really hard all year, you've put your nine to all of your effort into coming up with some great financial plans.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: After a year, you've done some great planning for a client, they come in and they're unhappy with you because of investment returns.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: How do you how will you cope with that?
14:37
SPEAKER_00: How will you feel about knowing you're working harder than ever to do some great financial planning to not be thanked or people to be unhappy with you because of something out of your control?
14:48
SPEAKER_00: And that's where it clicked me going, that that doesn't, I don't think for me personally, I'd rather get the recognition of people I see day in, day out, my team members developing them, rather than um my clients that potentially might be unhappy with me about external factors.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: So that for me is is the big thing that I came across is firms can say yes, you can hold them in a power planning role because that's what suits them.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: But on the vice versa, you might be a power planner, feel like you should do more when actually you don't want to.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: And that's where a lot of them, as I've mentioned uh with the example of my clients, which is that person doesn't need to step up to be an advisor, they can be a power planner, they can still add value, they can add all the value you want a power an advisor to bring, but there's so much little, there's far less risk because they know the systems, they know the clients, they've worked with you for years.
15:45
SPEAKER_00: If you're an advisor and it's your baby, you've built up a business, because it is a business, it's your, but it's surrounded by people you've known for years.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what do you want as a business owner?
15:56
SPEAKER_00: Sam, you'll you want someone that if someone doesn't know the answer, they'll go, Sam, I don't know the answer.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: Now, if it's a power planner for 10 plus years that's been there, then more like you've got more confidence that they'll tell you, I don't know the answer to this.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: Rather than the new advisor that you don't know that's trying to make an impression, that's where things can go wrong.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: And that's where by promoting within and growing your own, um, I've personally seen as a far better method, I think, to job progression um and ultimately longevity in the financial planning system.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: A couple of things to unpack there.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, the bit about like the rejection side.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: So for you, right, you're great at your job, great at power planning, love doing it, love working with stakeholders in the business, love working and training those around you and seeing, I suppose, the fruits of your labour because it's pretty black and white what you would do as a power planner.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there are some things that might piss you off, or you know, time text, time scales, product providers not sending you things, people not doing the work properly, but you were in control of that.
16:52
SPEAKER_01: You can influence that and you can change that.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: But the idea of going out and doing a really good job for somebody, but that person actually being unhappy with you, you found that to be quite uncomfortable.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: That wasn't an aspect of the job that you felt that you would want to put yourself into.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, being a financial planner, being anybody who's selling or going out and building relationships or doing something for something else, sometimes it can be a really thankless task.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: You know, it really, really can.
17:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I suppose you get a sense of achievement in what you were doing, and you didn't want to let go of that at the mercy of what somebody else thinks.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: Someone might call you sensitive, but it's not.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: It's just that you know yourself.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: You know who you are, you know how you get your internal rewards, you know what motivates you.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: And that doesn't, and that's absolutely okay.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: And that's what people need to understand in power planning roles, right?
17:40
SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, it's a career within its own right.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: You don't have to move on.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: You can definitely explore it.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: And what I love about what you just said there is that you did explore it, you did look into it, and you didn't just see it as that's the way you have to go, and you didn't give in to the peer pressure of becoming an advisor.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: You stuck to your guns, looked at what your skill set was and remained within the power planner role.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's quite a nice thing.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: Do you get a lot of that in the power planner club?
18:02
SPEAKER_01: Like with helping not, you know, for people that don't know what the power planner club is, give us an ex-you know, tell us what that is in a minute.
18:08
SPEAKER_01: But do you do you get that in the power planner club where people like are feeling a bit under pressure, or even the other way around?
18:14
SPEAKER_01: Like, I want to step up into an advice role.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: How do I approach my manager?
18:16
SPEAKER_01: Can you tell us a little bit about the PowerPlanner Club and a little bit about how you guys support each other?
18:20
SPEAKER_00: I'd love to.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: So I got involved in the Power Planner Club is a mentoring scheme run by power planners for power planners.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: So it's set up by Sean Davis Poe and Chloe Phillips, um, and they set it up probably two or three years ago.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: And what they looked at is go, if you're a power planner, what does good look like?
18:41
SPEAKER_00: Because you get a room full of power planners, you ask all of them what they do each day, what value do they have.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: You might have some general themes, but you probably get some quite different answers.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: Some people it is report writing, some people it is fielding every being in every meeting, fielding every query and everything in between.
18:59
SPEAKER_00: So the whole idea on the PowerPlanner Club is if you're a power planner, not knowing though what does good look like, or just what's my next step?
19:07
SPEAKER_00: Is it qualifications?
19:08
SPEAKER_00: Is it a different job route?
19:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, is it what can I do better?
19:13
SPEAKER_00: What does good look like?
19:14
SPEAKER_00: Because if I'm at a firm, 10 people in the firm, there's two power planners, actually, you can sort of get stuck in your lane.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: This is what the job is, this is what I add to clients.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: And actually, they don't think of other ideas that other firms are doing out there, and that's what the whole community is there for.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: So I got involved as with the power planner club uh last year.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: When I left, so I left employment just over 18 months ago to come back management director of the Paterson Group.
19:42
SPEAKER_00: And I when I left, I said I wanted to go into team management because I like developing people.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: Now I've left that to go into a role where I am work a lot with businesses in terms of CI exams, a lot of consultants who work, um, which is really it's all personal, but to a limit.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm a consultant, I'm not there full-time, I only have a limited recognition.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: And again, for me, something I appreciated, I liked was that I want to see the fruits of my labor.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: I want to grow with someone, I want to help them develop.
20:13
SPEAKER_00: But I'm moving into a job role and taking on an opportunity and taking a risk, but I knew that was never going to be associated with that.
20:21
SPEAKER_00: So that's why I became involved as a mentor, just going, Sean, Chloe, I'd love to get involved with your scheme.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: It's I'd love to get involved.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm fully on board with it.
20:30
SPEAKER_00: Can I come on as a mentor?
20:32
SPEAKER_00: Loved it.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: And it was at this start of this year, I was asked to become a director and head of mentoring to really help drive that community forward.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: Because I saw a stat the other day, there's about 8,000 power planners around the country.
20:45
SPEAKER_00: There's not much recognition of them outside of the uh the industry, there's really limited recognition of them.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's how do we support each other?
20:55
SPEAKER_00: How do we drive ourselves forward?
20:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, because whatever the risks of people perceive with AI, I think power planning's here to stay.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: And the value power plans can add is only going to become more valuable in the future.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: A few more things to unpack there.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: You're saying some good stuff here.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: You know, when you mentioned what I loved is that you your last role before you left to join the Patterson group, which is your manager director of, and you're now a consultant, okay, was that you were a power planning manager.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: And that must have been tough for you to move from that job to do something where it's like putting you into a role where you're almost telling people what to do.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: You kind of dig in, um, and you're being quite direct because your time is money and you're there to make improvements for them.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: Um and it's it's weird because like when you when you manage somebody, you do mentor, you do train them, you do encourage them, you are on the journey with them, and there is something within that that is quite fulfilling.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: But there is also something when you become a consultant, you just go in and you just tell people what to do.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: And actually, because you know what you're talking about, you can.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: And like, I'm a consultant.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: I enjoy being a consultant, I don't enjoy being a manager, I enjoy telling somebody what.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: To do and do it better and how they should do it.
22:01
SPEAKER_01: And here's an example.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: And this is what Dave round the corner did.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: And look how much money Dave's now making.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: If you did this and did this and did this, that'll be you.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: And by the way, it's going to cost you this much money.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: Like to me, that excites me.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: I enjoy that.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: I enjoy helping multiple businesses because what I get from it is learning how those multiple businesses operate.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: And then I can teach another business how to do it better.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: I might even be able to go into, and I'm thinking of it seriously, running my own financial advice business because I got such a good insight into good, the bad, and the ugly out there.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: And you've had that.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: You've had it, and that's really great.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: And but you had it from a learned experience of being in there as well.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: But being in a position where you had to give up what you actually were truly passionate to do that must have been quite tough.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: So Power Planner Club definitely fills a hole for you, doesn't it?
22:42
SPEAKER_01: It does give you that.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: Because I love mentoring people.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: There's two or three people that I actually mentor for free in my spare time.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: And I one of the chaps has been on a journey with his own personal life, mental health and addiction.
22:55
SPEAKER_01: And I've seen him from the day I met him to where he is now in three years.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: The change in him has been phenomenal.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: And I see it more than he sees it.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: And I have to keep reminding him of the change that I've seen in him.
23:07
SPEAKER_01: And he always wants more because he's rebuilding his mental health, he's rebuilding his life.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: And it's that is so rewarding.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: And I think like when you are a consultant, it's yin and yang, right?
23:17
SPEAKER_01: You need balance.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: You need to be able to go in and confidently tell someone what to do.
23:21
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes you're not compassionate in those situations because you can't be, because you're trying to save them money and stop their business from going under, or you're trying to make them money, you're trying to cut through the bullshit they've created in their head around what they think their business is when actually it's not.
23:33
SPEAKER_01: Whereas like mentoring is it's compassion, you know, it is guidance, it is being helpful.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: It is, and you can bring a bit of that obviously into being a consultant as well.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: Don't, you know, I'm not a complete beast, and you're not a complete beast.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: But we allow that to come in.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: But it's a different type of nurturing relationship.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: Something's a bit more long, longer, the other one's a bit shorter, and you have to kind of condense it in and package it up, which comes with learning and being in the job in that skill set.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: So that's really, really good to know and really good to hear.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: So if any power planners are listening to this right now, or is it just power planners, or can it be people that are interested in becoming a power planner, training towards it, administrators?
24:08
SPEAKER_01: Who can come into the power planner club?
24:11
SPEAKER_00: PowerPlanner Club currently has everything from well, I've had a mentor, a mentee the other day, and she called me from an AE.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: She's a nurse on her on her brick.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: So I've had a nurse looking, I'm working 12-hour shifts as a nurse.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm looking for a long-term career.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: Can I have a chat with someone?
24:31
SPEAKER_00: Is financial planning for me?
24:33
SPEAKER_00: What does a power planner do?
24:34
SPEAKER_00: What's the exams look like?
24:35
SPEAKER_00: How do you get a job?
24:36
SPEAKER_00: How do you add value?
24:38
SPEAKER_00: What does your day look like?
24:39
SPEAKER_00: So everything from that to someone that's um based down south, power planner, been power planner for longer than I've been alive and is earning 85 grand.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: And they're going, okay, so I think I'll do what I think I do what I do really well, but I don't know what I don't know.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: So can you try and what ideas have you done in the past?
25:02
SPEAKER_00: What have you heard of?
25:03
SPEAKER_00: How can I add value?
25:05
SPEAKER_00: How do I ask for a pay rise?
25:06
SPEAKER_00: So it's everything, um, which is excellent.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: I said it's myself, Chloe, and Sean are the directors of PowerPlanning Club.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: Chloe was a power planner, is now an advisor.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: Sean was a power planner, now owns an outsourced power planning business, and I was an in-house power planner slash manager, and now I've consultant and help with CI exams.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: So, in terms of financial planning, in any job role, pretty much got it covered.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: We've got 26 mentors that hold every position you can imagine.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: They're all there because they enjoy giving back different exam bodies, different roles, different experiences.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: So it's does a mentor work for you?
25:46
SPEAKER_00: If it doesn't work, well, let's try a different mentor.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: It's not the scheme that's wrong.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: Maybe we'll just package your operating.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: So it's really for anyone looking for what does good look like?
25:56
SPEAKER_00: And actually, it's it's really exciting.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: We're talking to try and bring this more of a community online to more of a forum of power planners, which I'm sure we'll be able to announce slightly slightly later in the next coming weeks.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, but we we are really looking to enhance this power planning role because it's changed so much.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I go to the pub with my mates and they go, What do you do?
26:16
SPEAKER_00: And I go, Um I'm a I used to be a power planner.
26:20
SPEAKER_00: And they go, What's the power planner?
26:22
SPEAKER_00: And the only way I can explain this, if you watch Suits, Megan Markle, she was a paralegal, she's behind the scenes, doing the strategies.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: That's what a power planner does to financial planning.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: But the lack of a recognition outside of industry is something that I speak a lot about with uh power planners.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: And how actually do you improve that recognition, both from power planners and employers?
26:43
SPEAKER_01: I think it's really important that people understand what a power planner is, but I'll tell you the reasons why, because I get approached a lot by people who say they want to be financial planners or be financial advisors.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: And when they explain the reasons why, what they're actually explaining is power planner job.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: You know, and like when I quickly identify, I'm like, how you're talking to me, what you're telling me you're passionate about, what you're telling me that interests you is all analytical, it's all research, it's all like looking at strategy.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: It's like that's part of a planet financial advisor's job, but actually you would be way more suited to power planner.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: Because if I told you you had to go and go to a networking event, if I told you you had to get on the telephone, make a load of calls, phone up some clients, if I told you about rejection, how would you cope with all that?
27:25
SPEAKER_01: And have you got any experience of doing any of that?
27:28
SPEAKER_01: And often they're like, oh no.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, if I told you this job role of a power planner, how would that make you feel?
27:33
SPEAKER_01: And like, well, I'd be interested in that.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: I said, well, you need to be a power planner then.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: And that was key to me.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: Like when I set up the Financial Planner Life Um Academy, it was that it's not about being a financial advisor and that's it.
27:42
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be another academy that's just training up financial advisors.
27:45
SPEAKER_01: I want to bring people in who can make a decision as to what they think they should, how they should they should join the profession and what route would be best for them.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: So we wanted to give them career education, we wanted to slow the process down a little bit and show them the different sides of working in the profession because there's more job roles than just financial advice.
28:01
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's contributed to the lack of people coming into the profession.
28:04
SPEAKER_01: So the different roles we need to shout about, a bit like I do on the podcast, because it's very, very important that people understand the ins and outs of those positions.
28:11
SPEAKER_01: Um very, very interesting then.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: That's good.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Sean Davies Cole's been on the podcast years ago, actually.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: She's from local to me.
28:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I need to meet up with her.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think it's a really, really, really good thing.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: One of the things that I've noticed, and the thing is as well, like if there's eight to nine thousand power planners out there, different firms have different culture, have different values, have different systems, have so many differences.
28:40
SPEAKER_01: So it's not like you're just I'm a power planner, so I can sidestep into that firm and it's an easy switch.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: There's like different firms are IFA or restricted, and some use tech, some don't use tech.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: And it's like you don't know really what your firm you're in is like until you open your ears and eyes and speak to other power planners.
28:57
SPEAKER_01: And then you start to go like, oh, I just do my brain in like, and I suppose like there's usually one or two power planners sometimes in firms, right?
29:04
SPEAKER_01: Uh in the bigger firms, it's more.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: So there isn't a chance for you to bounce ideas off of other power planners.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: So stepping outside of your business and going into a community where you can learn from others is vital because then you can come back into your financial planning business.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: You can then influence the business owners to make some changes, do something different, and then you're upskilling yourself, and then you're showing more value to the business because perhaps you're saving money or making more money for the company.
29:29
SPEAKER_01: Would you agree?
29:30
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: So I'm part of what I do now is the CI exam specialist part of my role now is we create industry-leading audio material.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: So ROs, AFs, we allowing people to really revise on the go when it suits them.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: So part of what I do is produce audio material, sold over, helped over 66,000 people over the 28 years the business has been going.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: And then someone goes, Okay, so to get a pay rise to be competent, do I need to get some qualifications?
30:02
SPEAKER_00: And I go, in my opinion, no, it's not just down to that.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: And everyone goes, Bang on, Sam, you're saying you're a training provider, you help people pass exams, but you're saying it's not the be-all and end all for developing your career, and you go, bang on.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: That's exactly what it is.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: I think the main, and that's what the I try to get across with the Power Planet Club is someone.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: I've had a past conversation which is how do I how can I smile?
30:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm not happy with my pay, but I don't want to change roles.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: So, how can I have this conversation with my employees to try and get a uh a pay rise?
30:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay, so let's talk about that.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: I think why do you get a pay rise?
30:39
SPEAKER_00: Pay should reflect the value you add to that business.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: So exams come into it because if you're spending four hours an evening with writing through exams and improving your technical knowledge, that'll ultimately result in better work performance, which will benefit the business, which will benefit the shareholders.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: So, therefore, exams they do have a slight impact, but so does going to the PowerPlanet Club.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: You're going out of your way, you're giving up your free time, but you could be watching the crown on Netflix or selling sunset like my wife is at the moment, you could be sat on your sofa, but actually you're not, you're sat with someone else trying to get the their brain, which is a sponge, is really milking out.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: How can you get this knowledge and add value?
31:22
SPEAKER_00: What new ideas can you bring to the table?
31:24
SPEAKER_00: What different planning angles?
31:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, how can you support your clients better?
31:30
SPEAKER_00: And if you're doing all these things and going out and trying to get more knowledge, that's where pay rises come from.
31:36
SPEAKER_00: I think, and this is quite typical of power planners.
31:39
SPEAKER_00: I have a few weeks ago, I wrote an article all about imposter syndrome.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: Now, I'm sure a lot of people go, Yes, and it I suffer from imposter syndrome.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: And I think there's not a power planner I've ever met that has not felt from time to time they're not good enough, that they don't belong, they're waiting to be found out.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then you sort of talk about, and that's really resonated with people.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: And they go, That's put to me, going, Sam, have you not got that?
32:07
SPEAKER_00: You've been a consultant now for 18 months, and you're going up to business owners who've been there for 40 years and telling them they can do better, and they go, Yes.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: They go, Why?
32:17
SPEAKER_00: And you go, because I'm being hired to solve problems I was doing day in, day out 18 months ago.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: Who else in the industry can say they were doing that job 18 months ago, speaking to clients as in 60 meetings a year 18 months ago?
32:31
SPEAKER_00: And now I'm in a position where I can spread that wealth of knowledge around.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: Um but I think that's a big thing for power planners, is trying to get over that imposter syndrome.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: It's trying how can you work on that?
32:44
SPEAKER_00: And that's something I do quite a lot with the Power Planner Club.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: Do you think power planners are scared perhaps of confrontation, worried about the repercussions of trying to solve a problem for a business?
33:00
SPEAKER_01: Almost like they feel that's above their station when actually their job is problem.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: You're absolutely spot on.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: I loved what you said there.
33:06
SPEAKER_01: You were a problem solver anyway, within those businesses.
33:10
SPEAKER_01: You're now a consultant, and you're only doing what you were doing anyway in the role of power planner.
33:14
SPEAKER_01: So it's a confidence issue.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: It's like, what's my identity?
33:18
SPEAKER_01: What is a power planner, and what problems am I solving?
33:22
SPEAKER_01: Not only just for the clients, but it's actually for the business.
33:27
SPEAKER_01: So actually, a power planner is a process improver, a business improvement specialist.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: They see the business from a completely different angle.
33:35
SPEAKER_01: So maybe they need to fill their cup of self-worth up a little bit and start to recognize the strength and the value that they actually have.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: It comes back to like I've got I know power planners that have moved around multiple companies.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: Some of the best power planners I know are the ones that have got multiple experience in different companies, and some of the ones that are the most unhappiest are the ones that have stayed in a company and not challenged status quo and have been unhappy and not stepped outside of the box.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: I love the way that the PowerPlanner Crub creates that safe space, not only to kind of air those worries and concerns, because we develop them, don't we?
34:09
SPEAKER_01: And we tell ourselves a story and we start to believe it.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: And when you actually go and you share that story, otherwise, I felt like that before.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: And now I feel this way.
34:18
SPEAKER_01: And by the way, Sam's going to do some training on this, this, this, and this.
34:21
SPEAKER_01: And it's going to help you develop as a person.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: It's going to help you develop your career.
34:25
SPEAKER_01: And I think often when people are in power planner roles, they do, and sometimes this is the case.
34:30
SPEAKER_01: Getting a pay rise, you have to leave, right?
34:33
SPEAKER_01: But often they think about that as being the first thing they have to do.
34:37
SPEAKER_01: Not how they can influence the business to generate a pay rise.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: That they are a valuable asset.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: 8,000 in the UK.
34:44
SPEAKER_01: There's a they're a valuable asset.
34:46
SPEAKER_01: So what can they do, Sam, to empower themselves to be able to influence a pay rise internally before looking outside of the business if that doesn't work?
35:01
SPEAKER_00: That is the question that I get asked all the time.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: And there's something that I've again, you mentioned earlier, which is I'm doing the job.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: My my role is to add value as a consultant.
35:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm in the power planner club.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: And if I don't add value, well, I don't need someone who doesn't need me.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: So I've always got to try and add value.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: So when I speak to power planners about how you can ask for a pay rise, you go, okay, how do you think you get a pay rise?
35:25
SPEAKER_00: And they go, I need to do my job better.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so does the best person always get the pay rise or the promotion?
35:33
SPEAKER_00: And they go, No.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: Ah, so maybe it's not just performance.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: And I introduced them to the concept of pie, which is something I used a lot.
35:42
SPEAKER_00: Again, this is not things I've or I've learned over time, but I've put it into practice, I've tried and tested.
35:48
SPEAKER_00: Pi is performance, image, and exposure.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: So you go, why does someone get a pay rise or a promotion?
35:53
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's your performance.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: And you go, oh, actually, I'm not sure it is.
35:57
SPEAKER_00: I think it's more about image.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: Image is if someone says Sam Oaks, what is the picture that forms their mind?
36:03
SPEAKER_00: What do they immediately think when they hear Sam Oaks?
36:06
SPEAKER_01: Handsome.
36:07
SPEAKER_00: Handsome actually, say the same myself.
36:10
SPEAKER_00: And the second one is exposure.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: So actually, a lot of people obviously think handsome because you've got lots of watches in the podcast.
36:17
SPEAKER_00: But primarily, pay rise and promotion is down to those three things.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: Mainly image.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: So what do people think Sam can do?
36:25
SPEAKER_00: How many people think Sam can do it?
36:27
SPEAKER_00: And actually, the least important is actually what Sam does.
36:30
SPEAKER_00: And it's speaking to PowerPoint's like, okay, so you want pay rise.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: How often do you go to the office?
36:37
SPEAKER_00: You go, oh, not many.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so how are you improving your image?
36:40
SPEAKER_00: What strategies are you doing to improve your image?
36:43
SPEAKER_00: How are you starting your um how are you improving your exposure?
36:47
SPEAKER_00: So, and and then it's okay.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: So, what's the next part?
36:51
SPEAKER_00: Let's take that knowledge, high, form agent exposure.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: That's the bedrock to a promotion or a pay rise.
36:56
SPEAKER_00: Let's give you some practical applications of how to of how to put that into place.
37:01
SPEAKER_00: So that's just off the top of my head, but a way that I've always found excellent is say to power planners, what's your niche?
37:09
SPEAKER_00: What do you want to be known for?
37:10
SPEAKER_00: Because in my experience, it's the easiest way to get pay rise or promotion.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: Why?
37:15
SPEAKER_00: Well, for me personally, it was fund for clients.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: I was doing all my exams, we locked down.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: A member of my team came team to me at the time, getting used to working at home, and said, Sam, one of my clients has called me up uh three times over the past two weeks, and he's asked for the same withdrawal for the same university cost for his grandchild.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: What do we do?
37:36
SPEAKER_00: And at the time, that company only had uh an extra care policy.
37:39
SPEAKER_00: How do you service vulnerable clients if they're over 80?
37:42
SPEAKER_00: So, James, how old's that client?
37:44
SPEAKER_00: He went, he's 74.
37:45
SPEAKER_00: You go, ah, this doesn't fit into our firm's process here.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: So, how do we make that better?
37:51
SPEAKER_00: So I went out of my way, I did lots of reading, lots of research, webinars, every bit of knowledge on vulnerable clients I tried to soak up.
38:00
SPEAKER_00: That was my thing.
38:01
SPEAKER_00: So when we went back to office and office, I put in place the policy, I did all of the training.
38:06
SPEAKER_00: I then had not only power planners or client managers at my old firm, but also the advisors coming up to me going, Sam, I've got this case, can I run it past you?
38:15
SPEAKER_00: And suddenly I went from from and I had ImageX as a one of the team leaders and managing a lot of people, but suddenly it was elevated to Sam is the guy that deals with vulnerable clients.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: And that's what I say to power planners out there is if you're looking for a pay rise or promotion, there's no point me, you're my boss saying, Sam, I'm one of your power planners, I'd like a promotion, please.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: What does that look like to you?
38:38
SPEAKER_00: And you go, right, rightly as a manager, we'll go, what does that look like for you, Sam?
38:42
SPEAKER_00: So it's weird saying Sam and Sam, isn't it?
38:44
SPEAKER_00: But what does that look like to me?
38:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's the big thing is don't go with a problem to your manager, go with the solution.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: Sam, I would like a pay rise because over the last 18 months, I've worked my absolute behind off.
38:58
SPEAKER_00: I am now the go-to person in this business for vulnerable clients.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: I am adding so much value, I mean, adding so much change to this business.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: That's why I deserve a pay rise.
39:08
SPEAKER_00: And it's talking through power plans, I think you mentioned earlier, scared.
39:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure whether it is scared.
39:13
SPEAKER_00: I think it's an uncertainty about what path, what path can they go.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: They're looking at a map and they can't see the path they want to go down.
39:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: And that's what I'm there to do is help them forge their own little path.
39:25
SPEAKER_00: Because it's really hard to give a generic answer.
39:27
SPEAKER_00: Every firm's different.
39:28
SPEAKER_00: But when you speak to these individuals, learn the culture of their firm and come up with a plan to really help empower that power planner.
39:36
SPEAKER_01: I think as well, the problem you have with this pat in power planning is that power planning is the generic job title.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: And um we all know that there are different levels of power planner.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: We know that.
39:47
SPEAKER_01: We see them.
39:48
SPEAKER_01: I speak to power planners, you speak to power planners all the time.
39:50
SPEAKER_01: But when you're one power planner in a job role, you're a power planner.
39:53
SPEAKER_01: You don't quite know what your level of experience is up against other power planners, and therefore you do not know what your worth is.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: So you don't have a confidence in your commodity, which is yourself.
40:05
SPEAKER_01: You know, you don't have a confidence in yourself.
40:07
SPEAKER_01: You don't know how to pitch yourself because you've got nothing to pitch it against.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: So it's like, you know, if you broke the role of a power planner down into five different job job roles, six different job roles, you know, you could do that.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: You really could do that.
40:19
SPEAKER_01: The profession as a whole could do that.
40:22
SPEAKER_01: And it will kind of help power planners recognize where they are in their career.
40:26
SPEAKER_01: And I kind of advise firms to say, look, what's your career framework for a power planner?
40:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, have you got a senior power planner?
40:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
40:32
SPEAKER_01: Okay, have you got somebody who's maybe at the beginning of their journey?
40:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, do you call them power planners?
40:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:36
SPEAKER_01: I said, well, what's the benefit of that?
40:38
SPEAKER_01: You know, like let's work out exactly what the career framework is for someone to go from, say, 30k as an in, you know, as a brand new power planner, probably a senior administrator, maybe actually, you know, and what have they got to do to get to the level of one of the highest paid power planners I've ever come across is well, you've told me actually.
40:53
SPEAKER_01: What was it?
40:54
SPEAKER_01: 85 pounds.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 85,000 pounds.
40:56
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I trump that.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: We were doing some work yesterday with a company called Irwin Mitchell, and they have come across a power planner on 90k.
41:06
SPEAKER_01: That's mad, isn't it?
41:07
SPEAKER_01: So, what's the difference?
41:09
SPEAKER_01: Why is somebody on 90k?
41:10
SPEAKER_01: And I'll tell you the reason for that is because this person had clinical negligence and PI experience pre and post-court.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: So it goes back to what you said about developing a leech and a skill set.
41:20
SPEAKER_01: But you can break the role of a power planner down into multiple different roles.
41:23
SPEAKER_01: And I think if firms do that, they'll have better talent attraction and better retention because then you can start to set goals and you can work with the individual power planner and have um milestones that they can achieve, and then you can ratchet their salaries based on their level of experience, whether there's a qualification or a level of experience that runs alongside it.
41:42
SPEAKER_01: That would be the perfect world.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: Firms aren't quite there yet.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: But what you're saying is look, take it upon yourself to actually develop that.
41:50
SPEAKER_01: Take it upon yourself to collect evidence and take it upon yourself to upskill yourself.
41:57
SPEAKER_01: If you can't do it yourself right now in the environment that you're actually in, go and join a power planner club and get some insider knowledge.
42:04
SPEAKER_01: Start reading some good content, start following some power planners that are educating you on the better processes that can be done.
42:10
SPEAKER_01: And then start influencing the business owners and making a note of the improvements that you're actually constantly doing.
42:18
SPEAKER_01: Because one of those things, anyway, we used to call it a brag file.
42:21
SPEAKER_01: Where's your brag file?
42:22
SPEAKER_01: What have you got when you go to interview?
42:24
SPEAKER_01: Take your brag file with you.
42:26
SPEAKER_01: Because it's all about bragging about the things that you have done that have added value and why they've added value, most importantly.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: How you identified it, what it is, and how it added value.
42:39
SPEAKER_01: Did it save money?
42:40
SPEAKER_01: Did it decrease time?
42:42
SPEAKER_01: Did it um free up somebody from a job role to do something else?
42:46
SPEAKER_01: There are all these things that you can start adding into that process.
42:50
SPEAKER_01: So when you you when you're in your mindset, you've got to be thinking, I want to prepare myself for the day that I sit down to renegotiate my salary.
43:01
SPEAKER_01: As a business owner, if someone comes to me and says, Sam, I want to set a pay increase, I say, why?
43:08
SPEAKER_01: And if they can evidence why and the value that they add, why should I give them a pay rise?
43:17
SPEAKER_01: But when someone comes to me and evidence, do you know how hard it is to turn down a pay rise for somebody when they've got solid evidence?
43:24
SPEAKER_01: It's nigh on impossible.
43:27
SPEAKER_01: Now, when someone has the courage and the confidence, I think it's not scared, it's confidence, but also the f they've framed it in the right way and they've structured it in the right way.
43:36
SPEAKER_01: Once they've got that and they deliver it, do you know what they also have?
43:40
SPEAKER_01: They have peace of mind that they have evidenced, shown somebody, asked for a pay rise, and if it's knocked back, then they can look elsewhere.
43:51
SPEAKER_01: Because once they take that brag file with them elsewhere and they can easily articulate where they are in their journey and what they've done, then they can.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Start to demand and command salaries reflective of what the market is looking for, especially if they talk to someone like me who understands what the market looks like.
44:07
SPEAKER_01: Because someone could come to me and say, Sam, I've been doing this, I've been doing this, I've been doing this, I've been doing this, and I'll say, that's like a 45k year salary.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: What are you on?
44:16
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm on a senior administrator salary of 29,000.
44:18
SPEAKER_01: It's like, why?
44:19
SPEAKER_01: Right, you're actually a power planner, not a senior administrator.
44:22
SPEAKER_01: So let's get that sorted first of all.
44:24
SPEAKER_01: And your salary is going to go up by about 10, 12 grand, and there is a demand for it.
44:29
SPEAKER_01: And all of a sudden someone's like, wow.
44:30
SPEAKER_01: Now that person can then actually take that market research, maybe do it before they go to an interview and just say, Look, and I've also looked at the market.
44:38
SPEAKER_01: And based upon the skill set that I've got and the experience that I've got, I actually command a salary of like 42k.
44:43
SPEAKER_01: And people are like, oh, we've got market research of you.
44:46
SPEAKER_01: And they've got, yeah, I've got the Recruit UK salary guide, and I can see it here, and I've all spoken to a few people.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: And again, it's very difficult for somebody who wants to keep somebody that's shown their value and their worth.
44:57
SPEAKER_01: They want to keep them.
44:58
SPEAKER_01: They don't want to lose them.
44:59
SPEAKER_01: You know, you're not trying to put the fear into these people, especially if they're good managers and whatnot.
45:03
SPEAKER_01: You just want to share and confidently say this is what my value is, and this is what the value I've added to the business.
45:11
SPEAKER_01: Now saving a business money, improving processes.
45:14
SPEAKER_01: Have you got any tips for somebody right now?
45:16
SPEAKER_01: Some of the things they actually can do right now in the role of a power planner, things they'd be looking at that can instantly add value to a business to maybe save the money, improve time and processes.
45:29
SPEAKER_00: I think if you're a business owner now, I'm all we're in the people business.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: Yes, we both work in financial planning, but it's a people business.
45:37
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
45:37
SPEAKER_00: So if I was an owner of a business now and thought, how can I look to make efficiencies?
45:44
SPEAKER_00: How can I improve the profitability?
45:46
SPEAKER_00: I would look at my team of para planners and go, who are my rock stars and who are my superstars?
45:50
SPEAKER_00: So my rock stars, they are what you would probably refer to as career paraplanners.
45:55
SPEAKER_00: They hold the base level, they show you what goods look like.
45:59
SPEAKER_00: They are the probably have the niche areas, they know what they are what good looks like.
46:05
SPEAKER_00: But that's what they are.
46:06
SPEAKER_00: They are a rock of the team.
46:07
SPEAKER_00: They are they don't want to move on to a bigger role, they're happy as a as a power planner.
46:13
SPEAKER_00: They've got their career and they're very happy with it.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: But I bet you've got some superstars.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: The superstars, people in a power planning role, but they don't want to be a power planner.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: They are looking for the next idea, they're trying to add value to people, they are trying to come into the um networking events, flying through the exams, they are going somewhere.
46:34
SPEAKER_00: Now, if you're an employer, you need your rock stars because you can't have everyone firing off everywhere all the time, but you also need your superstars because they're the ones that propel the business forward.
46:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:44
SPEAKER_00: So if I was a business owner and I've got my rock stars, but actually I've got Sam Oaks, and he is my superstar power planner.
46:51
SPEAKER_00: He is going somewhere.
46:53
SPEAKER_00: He is handsome, he's got the all his exams, he's got a podcast, he's going somewhere.
46:59
SPEAKER_00: So, how can I keep hold of him?
47:01
SPEAKER_00: Because at the moment, he's a power planner.
47:03
SPEAKER_00: Really easy tip.
47:06
SPEAKER_00: Say I'm the advisor, and you've wrote my report saying Sam Patterson has done this advice by Sam Patterson.
47:12
SPEAKER_00: I've signed it.
47:13
SPEAKER_00: Report was authored by Sam Oak.
47:15
SPEAKER_00: So you can reach Sam for any queries on this number.
47:18
SPEAKER_00: I'm turning around saying, Sam, you're going somewhere.
47:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm you I'm your manager, I'm your boss.
47:23
SPEAKER_00: I know you're going somewhere.
47:24
SPEAKER_00: Let's try and move your skills on in a safe way.
47:28
SPEAKER_00: So you're not going to get overwhelmed, there's not too much risk for me.
47:31
SPEAKER_00: But if you write a report for me as a power planner, you can answer, are you comfortable answering any questions on it of the client?
47:38
SPEAKER_00: You wrote it, you know it.
47:39
SPEAKER_00: Can the client get in contact with you?
47:42
SPEAKER_00: If it maybe it's not a phone, maybe it's an email, but are you comfortable decoding that point of contact for that client?
47:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, love that, please.
47:48
SPEAKER_00: And you go, ah, so now I'm someone like you, you're a superstar, you're looking for the next thing.
47:53
SPEAKER_00: You're about to get on the phone to actually you going, Sam, I'm feeling held down by this role.
47:59
SPEAKER_00: What's next?
48:00
SPEAKER_00: But as an employer, I've spotted that and I've put in the progression plan just for you.
48:05
SPEAKER_00: What's that good for me as an employer?
48:06
SPEAKER_00: Because well, I'm getting you doing things that otherwise I would have to do, or one of my advisors would have to do.
48:12
SPEAKER_00: That's where you're saving money instantly, whilst also giving you the superstar chance to grow, chance to add your value, bring new ideas.
48:20
SPEAKER_00: You're showing all everyone else that's perhaps not at that level yet, going, oh, there is progression here because look at Sam.
48:27
SPEAKER_00: Look at that culture and growing within and promoting and progression.
48:32
SPEAKER_00: Like he's he tried his best, he's added loads of value, it's being recognized.
48:36
SPEAKER_00: Why would I not want to stay here?
48:39
SPEAKER_00: And it's that adding that thing.
48:42
SPEAKER_01: Is a perfect example of managing ambition.
48:47
SPEAKER_01: Some people are so scared of people who've got ambition, and like if someone's got bit, you know, I see him in my business, right?
48:53
SPEAKER_01: You know, Elena, fantastic example, full to the brim of ambition, wants to push forward.
48:59
SPEAKER_01: Now she'll push forward somewhere else.
49:01
SPEAKER_01: I don't want her to push forward somewhere else.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: So what did I do?
49:04
SPEAKER_01: Put an arm around her and say, guess what?
49:05
SPEAKER_01: You're my co-host of the Financial Planner Life podcast.
49:08
SPEAKER_01: My God, did she love that?
49:11
SPEAKER_01: You know, she, you know, at first she was like, oh my god, you know, really, oh my god.
49:14
SPEAKER_01: She absolutely loved it.
49:16
SPEAKER_01: Because if her ambition gets to the point where I'm stifling it and there's nothing there for her to do, and I'm pushing her down into because, oh, you too much, too much, too much.
49:24
SPEAKER_01: Where's she gonna go?
49:25
SPEAKER_01: She's gonna go somewhere else.
49:26
SPEAKER_01: So I want to nurture that ambition.
49:28
SPEAKER_01: I want to manage it, I want to coach it, I want to bring her along, I want to give her the freedom that she needs and the learning experiences she needs.
49:34
SPEAKER_01: And guess what?
49:35
SPEAKER_01: Some people say, like, yeah, but if I do that, then Elena's gonna spend less time on the telephone and not make any money.
49:41
SPEAKER_01: Do you know what's happened?
49:42
SPEAKER_01: She's now my number one recruiter.
49:45
SPEAKER_01: She's my number one recruiter in there.
49:48
SPEAKER_01: And she adds value in my academy.
49:50
SPEAKER_01: She goes up on stage at the CISI event with me.
49:53
SPEAKER_01: She's on my podcast interviewing people, she's mentoring and training people, and she's my number one on the on the on the sales board.
50:01
SPEAKER_01: Now, if I'd have not nurtured her, she'd never have done that.
50:05
SPEAKER_01: And that to me is a prime example, what you just said there about superstars.
50:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love it.
50:11
SPEAKER_00: Without having a message off Elena saying, Sam, I can't believe you've said that because I've never met her.
50:15
SPEAKER_00: So I might, but you can't, or you but you also can't have a team full of Elenas.
50:19
SPEAKER_00: You can't have a team of superstars.
50:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
50:21
SPEAKER_00: So that's why I called them you have the superstars, but you have your rock stars.
50:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
50:25
SPEAKER_00: And your job, if you're an employee, and I'm sure it's gone in your head going, they're the people that hold, they're the people that hold, they're the base of my team, they're the rocks.
50:32
SPEAKER_00: If someone's asked that question, they'll go to that person, and they're just as valuable, it's just a different skill set.
50:38
SPEAKER_00: And that's where I think to include this.
50:41
SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about that because you what do you do to nurture a rock star?
50:46
SPEAKER_00: Big thing with a rock star for me is you talk and go, pure rock star, you go, Sam.
50:52
SPEAKER_00: What do you want to do?
50:53
SPEAKER_00: Sitting down with them and going, look, you are my rock, you hold the values.
50:58
SPEAKER_00: What would you what do you want from me?
51:00
SPEAKER_00: Let's have a conversation.
51:01
SPEAKER_00: You're I want to keep you.
51:03
SPEAKER_00: If it's not, if you're not desperate for it, different career paths and different new opportunities because that's just not what you want.
51:10
SPEAKER_00: And that and I say a rock star, because you're a rock star, it doesn't mean never, it's just a not now.
51:15
SPEAKER_00: So at the moment, I'm going right, what's next?
51:18
SPEAKER_00: Personally, what's next?
51:19
SPEAKER_00: Where can I go?
51:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm getting myself set my own business.
51:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm managing a team of six current CI authors, I'm doing audio material, I'll do consulting, I'm doing mentoring.
51:29
SPEAKER_00: Because right now, in my period of my life, I can.
51:33
SPEAKER_00: In a couple of years' time, my life might be very different.
51:36
SPEAKER_00: I might not want to put all this time into work, I might want to uh take it easy for a couple of months, I might gone through some mental health problems, I might have had a child.
51:48
SPEAKER_00: There's lots of different things.
51:49
SPEAKER_00: So because we're a rock star, it doesn't mean a never, it's just a not now.
51:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
51:53
SPEAKER_00: But it's speaking to them, going, look, how can I make you feel valued?
51:58
SPEAKER_00: And if they go, I um I'm looking for a new job title, okay.
52:04
SPEAKER_00: So what job title would you like?
52:06
SPEAKER_00: If it's not a different career path, it's just is it a title?
52:09
SPEAKER_00: Is it money?
52:10
SPEAKER_00: Um when you say money, especially it's the oh, it's the money word, or it's a smooth subject, and I would encourage to have that conversation, especially with those rock stars, because they need to feel valued.
52:22
SPEAKER_00: They are the I cannot underestimate, understate how important they are to a team.
52:28
SPEAKER_00: So you need to make them feel valued.
52:30
SPEAKER_00: Because if you are a rock star and you're seeing the the young, the uh the superstar, the Elena, seeing you all these opportunities, and you're I'm sat there going, Sam, I've worked my ass off for you for eight five years.
52:44
SPEAKER_00: Um I don't want all these opportunities, but I do a great job, I need to feel valued, and it's speaking, going, what does that value look like for you as an individual?
52:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, really, really good example, Sam.
52:57
SPEAKER_01: I can see why you're a consultant.
52:58
SPEAKER_01: Honestly, really, I'm learning a lot myself here, and it's allowing me to reflect upon my own business.
53:03
SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes as a business owner, you think about the superstars because they're going above and beyond.
53:08
SPEAKER_01: And they look, superstars are often very um ambitious people.
53:13
SPEAKER_01: They are also very um uh gone, you what's the word?
53:18
SPEAKER_01: Like they'll do what they want.
53:20
SPEAKER_00: Gung ho, aren't they?
53:21
SPEAKER_01: Gung-ho, man, they'll do what they want.
53:23
SPEAKER_01: So you have to kind of like manage a gung-ho person.
53:25
SPEAKER_01: It's it's tricky as a manager.
53:27
SPEAKER_01: If you've got to go with it, not against it, right?
53:29
SPEAKER_01: You've got to go with it, not against it.
53:31
SPEAKER_01: Um with a rock star, they are but they're not they don't have that personality that that person has.
53:38
SPEAKER_01: Maybe they're maybe they're a bit more introverted.
53:42
SPEAKER_01: Maybe they they're more focused on a task, whereas the person who's a superstar needs multiple things to do because they get bored easily.
53:49
SPEAKER_01: You know, that that kind of thing.
53:50
SPEAKER_01: So I think when you have the introvert extrovert and you look at them that way, you can kind of call one a rock star, you could call one um a superstar.
54:01
SPEAKER_01: That's one way to look at it, I suppose.
54:02
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to put people into boxes um because a rock star is as cool as a superstar.
54:07
SPEAKER_01: You know, and I love that analogy.
54:08
SPEAKER_01: A rock star is as cool as a superstar, man.
54:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, they're just different people.
54:12
SPEAKER_01: And I love the way that looking after those rock stars is important.
54:15
SPEAKER_01: And I think um when I think about a rock star, and I think I'm looking out my window now, looking at them, and how I manage those people, it's because I put an arm around them and I just sort of just say how how valuable they are, how much I really value them.
54:28
SPEAKER_01: And I've got rock stars at the top of my table who've been here for me for years and earning good money.
54:32
SPEAKER_01: If I don't touch base with them, how do they feel valued?
54:34
SPEAKER_01: Because they're not standing up and shouting and asking for validation, they're not seeking validation.
54:39
SPEAKER_01: Superstars often seek validation.
54:40
SPEAKER_01: I do, I seek validation.
54:42
SPEAKER_01: It's how I am.
54:43
SPEAKER_01: I like to know if I'm doing a good job, you know.
54:45
SPEAKER_01: I love feedback like that.
54:46
SPEAKER_01: Rock stars do as well, but they won't ask for it.
54:49
SPEAKER_01: They won't seek it.
54:50
SPEAKER_01: They'll do it through the work that they do.
54:52
SPEAKER_01: And I think you have to put an arm around them, you have to value them as a person and the work that they actually have to do.
54:59
SPEAKER_01: You have to kind of uh show a bit more interest in them and tell them that they're doing a great job because they're not going to seek it, but they still feel the same way.
55:08
SPEAKER_01: Just a different way that definitely different way that we promote it, isn't it?
55:12
SPEAKER_00: It's I'm thinking, I'm not gonna say the name, but someone I managed at my old firm and very fair.
55:17
SPEAKER_00: And they he he was my rock star.
55:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna say his name because he'll blush and he'll hate me saying it.
55:22
SPEAKER_00: But I remember saying he is if someone training someone new, what does good look like?
55:28
SPEAKER_00: It's it's that person there.
55:29
SPEAKER_00: Just look at them, do what they do, look at their reports, look at their own meeting prep, look at the way they interact with advisors, look at the way they push back on advisors.
55:38
SPEAKER_00: They are the standards you need to meet.
55:40
SPEAKER_00: Remember speaking to so what you're this per I don't think about users' name.
55:45
SPEAKER_00: This person, you're really valuable to me, my team.
55:48
SPEAKER_00: What can I do to keep you happy?
55:51
SPEAKER_00: What do you want me to get?
55:52
SPEAKER_00: What can I do for you?
55:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm your manager.
55:54
SPEAKER_00: Now, managing is an interesting one come on to that, I'm sure.
55:57
SPEAKER_00: It's an interesting one, but what can I do for you?
55:59
SPEAKER_00: I see my role is making sure you're working.
56:02
SPEAKER_00: And he went, say money.
56:04
SPEAKER_00: And he went, No, I'm earning good money, had his plan for future, so it wasn't money.
56:09
SPEAKER_00: Like, and the only thing he said was, if I'm struggling, help me.
56:14
SPEAKER_00: But he said, I'm not going to come to you for help.
56:16
SPEAKER_00: I need you to pick up on the skill, and that's everything that I would do anyway.
56:21
SPEAKER_00: But it's good to get out of them.
56:22
SPEAKER_00: Just cover off next next review.
56:24
SPEAKER_00: Is that all you still want from me?
56:26
SPEAKER_00: Oh, actually, I'm wanting to do this, so actually, I'm after this money, and it's very, I'm glad you've told me I need that's not realistic.
56:34
SPEAKER_00: And this isn't an awkward conversation, it's uh it's not there yet.
56:39
SPEAKER_00: But if you do this, this, and this, yeah, and I know you don't want it, but if you want that money, this is what entails with it, and you're having that open conversation.
56:47
SPEAKER_01: But that's what makes a good manager, right?
56:49
SPEAKER_01: You have to understand that each individual within your business is different, and you have to understand that everybody likes to be praised for doing a good job, and everybody wants to avoid pain and not lose their job or feel discomfort, and each person tends to like a reward in some capacity.
57:11
SPEAKER_01: That's how we're programmed as human beings, avoid pain, seek pleasure, right?
57:15
SPEAKER_01: Reward.
57:16
SPEAKER_01: And we're all very different, and we all display it in a different way.
57:24
SPEAKER_01: And a manager could constantly a manager could be somebody who's constantly looking for approval.
57:29
SPEAKER_01: So you might be looking at your team thinking, why aren't they praising me for all the great work that I'm doing?
57:33
SPEAKER_01: Or why aren't they telling me that they're stuck?
57:35
SPEAKER_01: Or why aren't they telling me they need help when I really want to help them?
57:37
SPEAKER_01: Because I'm overly helpful as a person.
57:39
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, you don't need to with that person, right?
57:43
SPEAKER_01: But what you might want to do is once a week check in with them.
57:46
SPEAKER_01: And you might want to find out how best that they like feedback.
57:49
SPEAKER_01: And what do they do in situations and circumstances when they're feeling uncomfortable?
57:54
SPEAKER_01: Could they give you an example of something that they could um have they got an example of something that could could make an improvement to the business this week?
58:03
SPEAKER_01: And I think when you ask those questions and you do it in a way that's open and it gets the information out of them, you're gonna get a deeper relationship with that person because you value them and you've taken time to understand how they work.
58:15
SPEAKER_01: Often in the past, because of who I am, I've to I've I've I've led with authority.
58:21
SPEAKER_01: It's this way, do it my way, because this is how it works.
58:24
SPEAKER_01: More often because I need control.
58:27
SPEAKER_01: And I and if people aren't doing it my way, then obviously it's not the right way.
58:30
SPEAKER_01: It took me a long time to learn that everybody's cut from a different cloth and has a different way of thinking.
58:35
SPEAKER_01: We're not the same, they're not androids, Sam.
58:38
SPEAKER_01: They're not your commodity, and you can control them to get them to do what they want.
58:42
SPEAKER_01: If you want to get them to do what you want, which is to achieve uh better improved processes, earn more money, then you need to get to know who they are and how they work.
58:51
SPEAKER_01: So let's look at that.
58:52
SPEAKER_01: You were a manager within power planning.
58:54
SPEAKER_01: So anybody that's aspiring to be a manager, anybody that is a manager, how can they get the and also business owners here, right?
59:00
SPEAKER_01: How can we get the best out of our teams?
59:05
SPEAKER_00: So I loved being a manager.
59:08
SPEAKER_00: It was when I decided I didn't want to be an advisor, I knew it's people management and I loved it.
59:14
SPEAKER_00: And when I became a third career manager, my boss at the time, who I learned so much, and she sat me down and she went, Things are gonna change, even if you don't change, things will change.
59:27
SPEAKER_00: And I went, give over.
59:30
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm very friendly, I got on well with everyone in my team, I'd been in the team, and so I'm just now managing them.
59:36
SPEAKER_00: But I see that as me serving them, not them serving me as a manager.
59:40
SPEAKER_00: So things aren't gonna change.
59:41
SPEAKER_00: Things change.
59:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm not just Sam, the guy that anyone needs to work with me, some bad cheese jokes and has a bit of a laugh with you.
59:49
SPEAKER_00: I am now Sam, the guy that does that.
59:52
SPEAKER_00: But you're also very aware that I'm Sam that sits down every year to talk about your pay, or every six months to talk about your pay.
59:58
SPEAKER_00: I'm Sam that I've got to open up about my career aspirations.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_00: I've got to open up and being a manager, that change isn't talked about.
1:00:09
SPEAKER_00: People don't tell team leaders or managers enough, you will have to deal with this personally, it might be quite difficult at times, but you are losing your old group, your crowd, you'll develop a new crowd with the man because but it's just to make people aware of that.
1:00:24
SPEAKER_00: In terms of how do I, if you as a piece of advice for business owners, how do you get managers out enough, support managers and tell them to be themselves?
1:00:34
SPEAKER_00: I have always come from a natural, I want to help people.
1:00:39
SPEAKER_00: That's what that is something that I get a lot of value from.
1:00:43
SPEAKER_00: Is I want to help people.
1:00:44
SPEAKER_00: So you go, and then that's put uh speaking to a mentee about this, and they went, okay.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_00: So what comes if you've got to give someone feedback?
1:00:52
SPEAKER_00: Sam's you're one of my um in my team, you've dropped a bit of a clanger, you've missed some prep, you've maybe haven't done a withdrawal, you've misplaced a check, whatever it is, there's a bit of a clanger.
1:01:06
SPEAKER_00: So, how would you approach that?
1:01:08
SPEAKER_00: Because you I want to help people.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I'll sit you down and go, Sam, it would be easier for me and not to tell you this.
1:01:17
SPEAKER_00: It would be easier for me as a manager to turn my head and not tell you, not give you this feedback because it might not be comfortable, but that's not fair for you because you're not going to learn it.
1:01:27
SPEAKER_00: And a manager, to get be a good manager, you've got to position yourself on the side of your team.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_00: It's an interesting role because you're the mouthpiece for the business, but you're also the mouthpiece for the employees.
1:01:38
SPEAKER_00: It's this, you're the middle person servicing your team, but also servicing the board of directors or the senior manager.
1:01:45
SPEAKER_00: But the way I went about that is you've got to show that you care and you've got to show that, as you say, the easiest thing is to not give bad feedback.
1:01:55
SPEAKER_00: But actually, that's not the fair thing to do, and it's not the good thing for the team.
1:01:58
SPEAKER_00: Because if I don't give you the feedback, you're going to do it again.
1:02:01
SPEAKER_00: You might pass that on to someone else.
1:02:03
SPEAKER_00: But so it's positioning yourself.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_00: So when I sit down and go, Sam, the easiest thing to do is to not tell you this.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_00: If I've never built up that rapport with you, you'll go, Oh no, what's coming now?
1:02:16
SPEAKER_00: So you've got to build up that rapport, don't change because people see through it.
1:02:21
SPEAKER_00: Position yourself in a way that do what you say you'll do on the side of the team, build trust.
1:02:26
SPEAKER_00: What's trust where you you do what you'll do, you say you'll do what you say you'll do when you say you'll do it, and do it consistently.
1:02:34
SPEAKER_00: That's what trust is.
1:02:35
SPEAKER_00: So build up that trust from your team, you'll say you'll do something for them, you need to deliver it.
1:02:40
SPEAKER_00: Build that trust with your senior managers, the board of directors.
1:02:44
SPEAKER_00: I'm one of your mental management, I'll do what you ask me to do when I say I'll do it.
1:02:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and build about trust in each party.
1:02:51
SPEAKER_00: So when you have a position where you're either pushing something on the people below you or pushing back on something above you, they all know it's coming from the right place.
1:03:02
SPEAKER_01: One of the things I yeah, I hear what you're saying there, absolutely.
1:03:05
SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that I find works really well, and it's something that I learned when I was at a Viva.
1:03:10
SPEAKER_01: Um I used to like manage a team.
1:03:13
SPEAKER_01: Um the classic shit sandwich.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_01: You know, deliver some good news.
1:03:22
SPEAKER_01: Get in there and tell them about some of the great things that they've just done or some of the things you've seen that are doing really, really well.
1:03:28
SPEAKER_01: Even if they've even if they've dropped an absolute clanger.
1:03:31
SPEAKER_01: You know, Chris, I absolutely loved what you did with that client a couple of days ago, da-da-da-da-da, and all of this kind of thing.
1:03:37
SPEAKER_01: Look, I've just realized or just recognized that you've dropped a bit of a clanger, actually, mate.
1:03:41
SPEAKER_01: And the clanger was this, you know, you didn't pay that check-in.
1:03:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm now gonna have to go through the process.
1:03:45
SPEAKER_01: And just to give me kind of give you an idea of the extra time scare is gonna take on it and why this is a bit annoying.
1:03:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, can you tell me a little bit about what you can do about this so it doesn't happen again in the future?
1:03:55
SPEAKER_01: And then end it on something good.
1:03:57
SPEAKER_01: So it's like, but great, we've worked it out.
1:04:00
SPEAKER_01: These are things that we can now do next time, and these are the process of improvements that we can do so we don't make this mistake again.
1:04:04
SPEAKER_01: So thanks very much for making that mistake.
1:04:06
SPEAKER_01: Now we recognise it.
1:04:07
SPEAKER_01: Let's not make it happen again.
1:04:09
SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of like a shit sandwich.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_01: You bring them up, give them some shit news, and then bring them back up again.
1:04:14
SPEAKER_01: And hopefully their dopamine levels and their serotonin levels are high enough to be able to take on board that ah, that's constructive, you know, and it's a constructive criticism, it's a constructive feedback, and there are good things I'm doing, but they're also I dropped a bollock and now I need to sort it out and I need to learn from it.
1:04:29
SPEAKER_01: But they respect me anyway.
1:04:31
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a good way to do it.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_01: It does work, it's very traditional, it's classic, but you know, the shit sandwich, it works every time for me.
1:04:39
SPEAKER_00: I think if you're a manager, work on your emotional intelligence because Chris, that example, well, I'm sure it's maybe not real person, but the Chris example, he hasn't purposely messed up, and if he has, why have you hired him?
1:04:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so he's not done on purpose.
1:04:55
SPEAKER_00: You need to understand actually, it's probably a reflection on myself as a manager.
1:05:00
SPEAKER_00: How has he made that mistake?
1:05:01
SPEAKER_00: How have I let him made that mistake?
1:05:02
SPEAKER_00: Or is it a process issue?
1:05:04
SPEAKER_00: Because if that's a process issue, then actually we need to look at a process.
1:05:09
SPEAKER_00: If it's Chris just having a mistake, well, is it just one of those things or something deeper going on?
1:05:15
SPEAKER_00: Chris, what's on your mind?
1:05:16
SPEAKER_00: This isn't you.
1:05:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know this isn't.
1:05:18
SPEAKER_00: Chris, you're excellent.
1:05:19
SPEAKER_00: This isn't you.
1:05:19
SPEAKER_00: What's going on?
1:05:21
SPEAKER_00: Actually, Sam, um, I'm going through a tough time at home.
1:05:25
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:05:25
SPEAKER_00: So I'm there as a manager going, I care about Chris.
1:05:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm his manager, but also I care about the business.
1:05:31
SPEAKER_00: He is a business risk at the moment.
1:05:32
SPEAKER_00: So what do we need to do now?
1:05:34
SPEAKER_00: Chris, what you know what, Chris?
1:05:35
SPEAKER_00: I'll take that meeting.
1:05:36
SPEAKER_00: Anything you do now, run it past me and I'll check it for you.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_00: Because if you've made a mistake, what do you want?
1:05:41
SPEAKER_00: You want your manager to take care of you, knowing that like my people in my team, you I did it because I cared, but also because care about me, I care about the business.
1:05:51
SPEAKER_00: If they mess up, it's reflecting on me.
1:05:53
SPEAKER_00: So I need to make sure it doesn't happen.
1:05:55
SPEAKER_00: And it's taking that responsibility.
1:05:57
SPEAKER_00: The easy thing is to go, Chris, you absolutely.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_00: Don't mop it.
1:06:01
SPEAKER_00: Actually, that won't stop a business risk.
1:06:04
SPEAKER_00: That won't help the bottom line.
1:06:06
SPEAKER_00: That won't solve an issue.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_00: So it's how do you then yeah, show that emotional intelligence to put yourself in Chris's shoes?
1:06:13
SPEAKER_00: He needs to know it wasn't okay.
1:06:15
SPEAKER_00: If he's and it's a different thing.
1:06:17
SPEAKER_00: If Chris has done something on purpose, I uh there's there's not a second chance.
1:06:22
SPEAKER_00: If you aren't, if you're deliberately making mistakes, you're not part of my team.
1:06:27
SPEAKER_00: No.
1:06:28
SPEAKER_00: And because this this is not a team, if it's a mistake, I've grown up playing rug baits where I've got lots of scars on my face.
1:06:36
SPEAKER_00: Um if I missed a tackle and a try I went in, I'm not I'm not smashed to pieces.
1:06:42
SPEAKER_00: I go, lads, I'm this guy's six foot eight, I'm struggling here.
1:06:46
SPEAKER_00: I want two of my teammates just to come a bit closer, and three of us tackle him.
1:06:50
SPEAKER_00: And that's how I see a team in the working.
1:06:52
SPEAKER_00: But I think work and professional can learn so much of sport, and that's all the ideas that I try to bring to either mentees or businesses I work with.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_01: I think as well, what can we do as business owners?
1:07:04
SPEAKER_01: What can we do as managers to create a space where you are able to um articulate when you aren't feeling great or when perhaps you're under a bit of mental pressure or something in your personal life is affecting you?
1:07:19
SPEAKER_01: There is a safe space to be able to express it, but also that it isn't used as an excuse.
1:07:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, what's your view around mental health, mental fitness within financial planning?
1:07:31
SPEAKER_01: Are you seeing power planners?
1:07:33
SPEAKER_01: Let's look at the power planner area first.
1:07:34
SPEAKER_01: We're making a whole you know whole episode about power planning at the moment.
1:07:36
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna focus on power planners.
1:07:38
SPEAKER_01: What's the mental health like in general across the power planner community?
1:07:44
SPEAKER_01: And what part does their job and business or company play in how they're feeling?
1:07:51
SPEAKER_00: A couple of things, I think, there to break it down.
1:07:55
SPEAKER_00: So it's hard to speak generically because everyone's very different, but I'll try to speak generic.
1:08:00
SPEAKER_00: The generic plan power planner cares, they want to go above and beyond.
1:08:06
SPEAKER_00: If they have work to do, they will do it.
1:08:10
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't really matter about the time scales, they will work and work and work.
1:08:14
SPEAKER_00: The issue from that, from a business perspective, is I see it as a I drunk my water, but it's a glass empty.
1:08:22
SPEAKER_00: If every day I'm at work and you're pouring your water out, I you then have to take care and develop strategies for every evening, every weekend to top that water back up.
1:08:35
SPEAKER_00: Because next day at work, the stress is of work, you'll start tipping out.
1:08:38
SPEAKER_00: And if it's the odd few days, a week, and your water's running dry, I can go for the next however next hour or so without taking a sip of water, I'll be okay.
1:08:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if I don't drink until eight o'clock at night, I'll be suffering a bit, but I'll be okay.
1:08:54
SPEAKER_00: If I still haven't talked to my water and had a drink by 24 hours' time, I'm stuffed.
1:09:00
SPEAKER_00: So it's power planners have to prioritize the best thing for the business is sometimes turning off your laptop because you've got to replenish yourself.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_00: I think from an employee employer's perspective um with mental health, you've got to be able, you've got to be supportive, and that's where the the good employee, I'm sure you'll know this better than I the good employers stand out because the way that I put this to your um power plans listening, do you have the Sunday feeling?
1:09:34
SPEAKER_00: On a Sunday, do you have that feeling?
1:09:36
SPEAKER_00: Oh no, I'm at work tomorrow.
1:09:37
SPEAKER_01: Dread.
1:09:39
SPEAKER_00: That does not exist at every firm.
1:09:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:09:42
SPEAKER_00: And the good firms make short.
1:09:44
SPEAKER_00: So my old firm, I was there for yeah, so six years.
1:09:48
SPEAKER_00: I never had the Sunday feeling.
1:09:49
SPEAKER_00: It was an excellent firm tour.
1:09:51
SPEAKER_00: The good firms stand out.
1:09:52
SPEAKER_00: The good firms.
1:09:53
SPEAKER_01: Why did why though?
1:09:54
SPEAKER_01: Why okay?
1:09:55
SPEAKER_01: So you have you been on the other side of the fence where you have had the dread?
1:09:58
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:09:59
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so why did that firm what are they doing, or what did they do that made you feel happy to be coming in on a Monday, not fearing it?
1:10:09
SPEAKER_00: They treated me like a person, not as a power planner.
1:10:13
SPEAKER_00: They treated me as Sam.
1:10:15
SPEAKER_00: Sam is or Sam is quite extroverted.
1:10:19
SPEAKER_00: Sam works too hard.
1:10:21
SPEAKER_00: He sometimes finds it hard to say no to things.
1:10:24
SPEAKER_00: Sam can wears heart on his sleeve.
1:10:26
SPEAKER_00: They treated me as Sam.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_00: They learn how to manage him.
1:10:29
SPEAKER_00: I was a superstar in my old business.
1:10:31
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to go somewhere.
1:10:33
SPEAKER_00: I thought it was an advisor route.
1:10:34
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't an advisor, it was a team leader route.
1:10:37
SPEAKER_00: Okay, Sam, become a manager.
1:10:40
SPEAKER_00: Sam, do you want to make a niche for vulnerability?
1:10:43
SPEAKER_00: As long as it doesn't impact, go freedom to do it.
1:10:46
SPEAKER_00: Sam, you want to do training, freedom to do it.
1:10:49
SPEAKER_00: They supported what I wanted to do.
1:10:52
SPEAKER_00: With if I've got the Sunday feeling, for example, it's normally where someone feels you're a cog in the machine.
1:11:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're not you're not the individual.
1:11:04
SPEAKER_00: You come in and you have to write X number of reports, and actually that's what you need to do because that's what we're paying you to do.
1:11:12
SPEAKER_00: If you want to do something else, not an us.
1:11:15
SPEAKER_00: And it's that treated as an individual.
1:11:19
SPEAKER_01: I think we, as business owners or managers, once you become a business owner or a manager, I think you have to get the mirror out and you have to reflect upon yourself and start to identify areas of improvement.
1:11:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:11:35
SPEAKER_01: Um because all of a sudden you're responsible for multiple personalities, right?
1:11:40
SPEAKER_01: Multiple different types of people.
1:11:42
SPEAKER_01: And if you don't know yourself and what triggers you to get angry or resentful or fearful or whatever it might well be, how are you supposed to help somebody else and have enough energy in your bucket to continue for the rest of the day?
1:11:56
SPEAKER_01: Because managers and the business owners have to protect their mental health as much as the mental health of their employees.
1:12:01
SPEAKER_01: And like anybody, the you there's only if there's a finite amount.
1:12:05
SPEAKER_01: I don't know about you, but like when you're on your own doing your job, like you have your you get a bit annoyed and a bit frustrated and you have your own prop troubles and problems.
1:12:13
SPEAKER_01: Being a manager is completely different, and like it's a hot and like some people develop mental health problems when they become a manager as opposed to like when they're doing the job because they can't cope with the the effect it has on their social instincts and how they're perceived by others within the business.
1:12:28
SPEAKER_01: Whereas before they might be seen as a superstar, and it happens a lot to superstars.
1:12:32
SPEAKER_01: It's like if you put a superstar into a manager role, it can often be really difficult for that person because they are quite central to how they think and they want to do what they want to do.
1:12:43
SPEAKER_01: And when people don't react the way that you want them to react, it then becomes it impacts your social instincts and then what others think of you, and then you might act out with resentment and then start fearing what people think of you, and then you start to get worried and anxious and all of that.
1:12:56
SPEAKER_01: Mental health for me, mental fitness is what I call it.
1:12:59
SPEAKER_01: Mental fitness has to be a part of every business at every level, and it you know, you're not excluded because you're a manager.
1:13:04
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I got mental health problems that uh, you know, I'll go and you go and sort yourself out and come back.
1:13:09
SPEAKER_01: Well, no, it's like you know, we have a programme, we have employee benefits, you know, we have Mondays that we everyone goes PT, you know, so we try and create that.
1:13:17
SPEAKER_01: And I I I've gone through the lowest, darkest places in my life before, but have I shied away from telling people that?
1:13:24
SPEAKER_01: No, I've told everybody where I've been, in the darkest places, how my mind works, what I where I went to.
1:13:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm on the board of trustees for a charity that's talk club men's mental fitness.
1:13:35
SPEAKER_01: We've brought in counselling, I talk about counseling.
1:13:38
SPEAKER_01: When someone comes in, I can give them and signpost them to areas that will help them.
1:13:43
SPEAKER_01: I don't have to bear the weight of someone's mental health, but I can understand it and guide them to the place that they need to be because I've done it to myself.
1:13:51
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like lived experience or leaning into people within the business that have had that experience and asking them to say what would you do in this situation if you've never gone through something like that, is a mental health policy.
1:14:02
SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't have to fall on the shoulders of somebody who's never experienced it.
1:14:06
SPEAKER_01: My business partner has just left, right?
1:14:08
SPEAKER_01: He won't mind me saying.
1:14:09
SPEAKER_01: He's had a bit of mental health troubles and he's never had it before.
1:14:16
SPEAKER_01: But I have.
1:14:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, and now I was in a prime position to be able to help him over the last couple of weeks, and he's been entirely grateful.
1:14:24
SPEAKER_01: But there are times when he's looked at people, perhaps, and we all do, where he thinks, well, why can't they just pull their socks up?
1:14:30
SPEAKER_01: Because he's never had that lived experience.
1:14:32
SPEAKER_01: So I think having a policy of openness within the business, which is like mental health and mental fitness, what are we doing about it?
1:14:39
SPEAKER_01: It's okay to talk about it, but what are we doing about resolving it and working it through?
1:14:43
SPEAKER_01: Creates an environment where people don't feel fearful if they are under stress or under pressure.
1:14:48
SPEAKER_01: Because some people haven't got an off switch and will just do their power planning probably when they're at home because they think, oh shit, I've got, you know, Chris has asked me to do that and I've got to do this and I've got to do that.
1:14:57
SPEAKER_01: And and it not only does it like they feel they've got to get the laptop out and do it in their own time, but more importantly, it lives in here, you know.
1:15:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm like that 24 hours a day, man.
1:15:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm just always in my work mode.
1:15:08
SPEAKER_01: And some and I have to recognize that that's not healthy, and I need to be able to articulate that.
1:15:14
SPEAKER_01: And so people can hear or say, Sam, you work too hard.
1:15:16
SPEAKER_01: You you you you need to switch off sometimes, and I need to listen, you know.
1:15:20
SPEAKER_01: And it's the same for everybody in my business.
1:15:21
SPEAKER_01: If we can all create a nurturing environment, we're looking out for each other, and then we've got signposts and processes in place to deal with that, mental health and mental fitness becomes just part of life and part of businesses and the culture of the businesses.
1:15:34
SPEAKER_01: And that's something that we've created, and something I'm really proud of.
1:15:37
SPEAKER_01: Something I don't see much of within financial planning, I just don't see it that much.
1:15:42
SPEAKER_01: It and and it's a shame.
1:15:44
SPEAKER_00: I think it needs there needs to be an evolution, a recognition of it, in my opinion.
1:15:50
SPEAKER_00: If you are a manager and you've never had anyone come up to you and say, I'm having a bad day, I'm struggling.
1:15:58
SPEAKER_00: I would suggest you need to look at yourself.
1:16:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:16:01
SPEAKER_00: The manager, I again, I go back to that for most image and exposure.
1:16:06
SPEAKER_00: If no one said that to you, what do your teams think your response will be if they've never done it?
1:16:11
SPEAKER_00: You could have the team that's never, never has a down ending, never has a vulnerability, never struggles, but then you it could exist, but sure it does exist.
1:16:20
SPEAKER_00: I've never come across it though.
1:16:22
SPEAKER_00: And if you're a manager, lucky a great thing managers can do, and I do it a lot.
1:16:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm working with a head of our planning at the moment.
1:16:29
SPEAKER_00: Do uh do a 360 survey for your team, completely anonymous.
1:16:33
SPEAKER_00: What do your team think about you?
1:16:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, completely anonymous, and but you need to again, and actually, I said it to the team and I sent it out to them going, this manager wants to get better.
1:16:47
SPEAKER_00: They need to see their blind spot.
1:16:49
SPEAKER_00: Now, what I mean by blind spot is everyone has a blind spot.
1:16:53
SPEAKER_00: That piece of I've got an image of myself.
1:16:56
SPEAKER_00: My image of myself is probably not the image that my wife has of me.
1:16:59
SPEAKER_00: She's the closest person to me.
1:17:01
SPEAKER_00: There are blind spots that I have for myself that she will see.
1:17:05
SPEAKER_00: Now, if you're a manager, you will have blind spots.
1:17:08
SPEAKER_00: It's a part of being a person.
1:17:09
SPEAKER_00: Everyone has a blind spot.
1:17:12
SPEAKER_00: And actually, and I'm framing this in a positive to the team going, your manager's working on yourself.
1:17:17
SPEAKER_00: What a culture of self-development that is.
1:17:19
SPEAKER_00: Is they are going out of their way, asking for potentially some unwelcome for welcome feedback, but it might be negative feedback for that manager.
1:17:29
SPEAKER_00: But they're wanting to know it and they want to embrace it, they want to improve.
1:17:33
SPEAKER_00: That's what you want from a manager.
1:17:35
SPEAKER_01: Um I think that's a brilliant idea.
1:17:39
SPEAKER_01: I think that's really great.
1:17:40
SPEAKER_01: And I think more businesses need to do it.
1:17:42
SPEAKER_01: I think framing it with what are they doing that you really like again?
1:17:49
SPEAKER_01: What are they doing that perhaps they need to work on um ways that they can improve?
1:17:55
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes like it's about framing it.
1:17:57
SPEAKER_01: We're not looking for just what you dislike about the person, right?
1:18:01
SPEAKER_01: Because we're all no one's perfect, right?
1:18:03
SPEAKER_01: But we do need to understand those things because they could be common across the if you had interviewed a hundred, you know, if you sent out to a hundred people within the business and it came back and said that you're scoring three on personability or whatever, you know, or um uh empathy or whatever, then there's something there that needs to be worked on.
1:18:20
SPEAKER_01: But it could just be quite simple that somebody's recognized that you don't you seem to lack confidence, you know, that you you're hard on yourself.
1:18:29
SPEAKER_01: It it could even be more practical things.
1:18:32
SPEAKER_00: Sam, before nine o'clock, you're not that before you have your morning coffee.
1:18:36
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to speak to you.
1:18:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:18:38
SPEAKER_00: So as a manager, you need to have a coffee earlier because you need to be able to speak to people.
1:18:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:18:42
SPEAKER_00: There's things that actually you might just think you go to work, you you're always there.
1:18:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm I'm in work, I'm present, but actually your team don't think you're present half of it because they know if you've got your headphones in, you're working, they don't want to be, you don't want to be um disturbed.
1:18:59
SPEAKER_00: Now I could be a manager going it's quite loud in the office.
1:19:01
SPEAKER_00: I don't mind someone coming up to me, but I just like to block out the background noise.
1:19:05
SPEAKER_00: But their team are perceiving that is going, headphones in, don't touch, don't talk to them.
1:19:10
SPEAKER_00: And it's that awareness going, I didn't even see, didn't even know, it's my blind spot.
1:19:15
SPEAKER_00: I didn't even know I was being perceived that way.
1:19:18
SPEAKER_00: So thank you, team.
1:19:19
SPEAKER_00: So thank you for telling me you don't like my cheesy jokes, because actually I thought they were really funny, but you don't like them, so I'm not gonna say them.
1:19:26
SPEAKER_01: It's about being open and honest, looking for ways you can improve, being open to change and feedback, and that creates and create a culture also, I think, of mental fitness.
1:19:40
SPEAKER_01: Like, don't just say it, do it and offer things within benefits packages or um mentoring or whatever it is, and have those things in place because also, as a business owner, what you don't want to have is someone turn around and say, Well, you don't ever offer anything like that.
1:19:58
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, hang on, I've got a whole benefits package here.
1:20:01
SPEAKER_01: I could give you these guys in my office get eight free counselling sessions, they're on nine-day fortnights, they do flexible working.
1:20:08
SPEAKER_01: This is recruitment, by the way.
1:20:10
SPEAKER_01: You know, like for free free PT sessions, you know, healthcare.
1:20:15
SPEAKER_01: You're like, fuck me, you don't get that in recruitment, mate.
1:20:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm like, I am going above and beyond for these individuals, right?
1:20:22
SPEAKER_01: So when he turns around and say, Oh, and this and I'm that, and I'm saying, well, let's have a little look at what you get up to at the weekend then.
1:20:27
SPEAKER_01: Did you get shit faced again?
1:20:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, did you spend your weekend not actually filling up your cup?
1:20:34
SPEAKER_01: What are you doing that can make these improvements?
1:20:37
SPEAKER_01: And have you used this over here yet to help you recognize that?
1:20:41
SPEAKER_01: Or are you just making an excuse because you're underperforming and really you you've you've caused it to yourself, but you need someone like me to help identify that.
1:20:52
SPEAKER_01: The amount of honest direct conversations that I've had because of the benefit of having everything around it that offers them the support and the openness culture and the difference in people out there has been insane because it's there is no excuse.
1:21:09
SPEAKER_01: Honesty rules.
1:21:10
SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
1:21:11
SPEAKER_01: Because it's all there wrapped around you, if you can't see it and you're not using it, then what's the problem?
1:21:18
SPEAKER_01: Let's look at the problem that's bang on.
1:21:22
SPEAKER_00: I when that was touched earlier about Sunday Fair and Bible.
1:21:25
SPEAKER_00: I had it.
1:21:26
SPEAKER_00: I had it at the start of my career where I moved to a firm.
1:21:29
SPEAKER_00: It was an award-winning firm.
1:21:30
SPEAKER_00: The firm was excellent.
1:21:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I wasn't ready.
1:21:34
SPEAKER_00: I was a 23-year-old that moved 200 miles away from all my family, friends, straight from university.
1:21:39
SPEAKER_00: I knew no one there.
1:21:40
SPEAKER_00: I thought I'd play rugby so I meet people, got injured over and over.
1:21:44
SPEAKER_00: So I wasn't playing rugby.
1:21:45
SPEAKER_00: And I was working somewhere, trying to do all my exams.
1:21:48
SPEAKER_00: I was living in this in a house chair, it wasn't the right fit for me there.
1:21:52
SPEAKER_00: If I went back there now, it would be a match better than heaven.
1:21:55
SPEAKER_00: But at the time it wasn't right.
1:21:57
SPEAKER_00: And it took that employee to go, Sam, I don't think this is right.
1:22:02
SPEAKER_00: Now people think, see, you were sacked.
1:22:05
SPEAKER_00: He went, no, not at all, actually.
1:22:07
SPEAKER_00: They pointed out the blindingly obvious, and actually, it's where I've got to give them credit.
1:22:12
SPEAKER_00: And what where I sort of got this whole being honest is normally the fairest thing to do.
1:22:17
SPEAKER_00: They could have easily let me continue to plod along.
1:22:21
SPEAKER_00: I wasn't making mistakes, I was just doing an okay job, but they knew I wasn't enjoying it, and they pointed out, going, I don't think this is for you right now.
1:22:30
SPEAKER_00: And I went, No, you're right, it's not.
1:22:33
SPEAKER_00: So I went off traveling, I went to Thailand.
1:22:35
SPEAKER_00: We spoke a bit earlier.
1:22:36
SPEAKER_00: It's oh, I had a great time.
1:22:38
SPEAKER_00: Came back, found the right, found the firm closer to home in Manchester.
1:22:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, career's taken off.
1:22:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's all about nurturing that training people and nurturing that culture.
1:22:50
SPEAKER_00: And there's something that I speak into, it's an old saying that I used it on so when I was speaking to the other day, going, Sam, what happens if I hire you?
1:22:57
SPEAKER_00: I love what you're saying, I love your ideas, I love your you um your new ideas, modern concept and way of looking at it.
1:23:04
SPEAKER_00: But what happens if I hire you?
1:23:06
SPEAKER_00: I put this effort into this team leader and then they leave.
1:23:08
SPEAKER_00: And I go, All right, what happens if you don't hire me and they stay?
1:23:11
SPEAKER_00: And he went, Oh, exactly.
1:23:14
SPEAKER_00: If you get someone that's not doing the job to the best of their ability in the long run's gonna harm you, there's more risk, more risk than just a cost for a consultant.
1:23:24
SPEAKER_00: No, so if you don't if you you need to train people well because the alternative is you don't train them and they stay, and you're in a far worse position.
1:23:34
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
1:23:35
SPEAKER_01: Sam, I'm gonna bring it to an end there because we've been talking for quite some time.
1:23:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I could talk to you all day long, and I want to make sure that we cut it off there because it's brilliant, and I want people to hire you as a consultant in their business to learn more about you.
1:23:51
SPEAKER_01: So, what we're gonna do is get you out on LinkedIn.
1:23:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna push you out there, okay, because I think you're fantastic.
1:23:56
SPEAKER_01: I think you add value.
1:23:57
SPEAKER_01: I think this episode's been brilliant for power planners, brilliant for those interested in power planning, but also brilliant for business owners because there's a huge amount of value that's come from this.
1:24:06
SPEAKER_01: I've learnt a lot myself.
1:24:08
SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for your time today, Sam.
1:24:10
SPEAKER_01: And um, I look forward to continue working with you in our academy, continue cross-referral people into the PowerPlanner Club.
1:24:18
SPEAKER_01: I think that's a really good place to go.
1:24:20
SPEAKER_01: And um, thank you so much for your time, Sam.
1:24:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you very much.
1:24:24
SPEAKER_00: And just from uh before I was on here, I was the fan, and I just want to say thank you for everything you've been doing.
1:24:29
SPEAKER_00: It's excellent.
1:24:29
SPEAKER_00: I've actually pinched myself that I'm here, but uh, thank you very much.
1:24:34
SPEAKER_01: Oh mate, that's awesome.
1:24:35
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for the feedback.
1:24:35
SPEAKER_01: Cheers, buddy.
1:24:36
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.