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TAKEDOWN! Granny Turns Tables on Con A Man! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Stop what you're doing, just
0:14
Speaker 1: for a moment and think about your mother. Now, think
0:18
Speaker 1: about your grandmother, because right now I'm thinking about my grandmother,
0:22
Speaker 1: Lucy Minerva Fullwood Stokes Hartley, and how she had nothing.
0:30
Speaker 1: And I remember one time I couldn't pay a phone
0:32
Speaker 1: bill long distance to my fiance Keith as soon you
0:35
Speaker 1: still had to pay a long distance And I went
0:37
Speaker 1: to hers stupidly, unwittingly, and she had nothing and needed
0:43
Speaker 1: money to pay that phone bill. And she went to
0:46
Speaker 1: her change purse and she opened up real change purse
0:50
Speaker 1: and she took out fifty dollars and gave me her money.
0:55
Speaker 1: And I, this stupid team that I was, when thanks
1:01
Speaker 1: and ran out and paid the bill, not realizing that
1:08
Speaker 1: that fifty dollars was a huge amount of her monthly
1:15
Speaker 1: government payment for a retirement. Okay, just but she gave
1:21
Speaker 1: me that little bit, you know that she had, and
1:26
Speaker 1: of course I never paid it back. God forgive me.
1:29
Speaker 1: That's who my daughter's named after. Lucy is named after
1:32
Speaker 1: my grandmother Lucy that helped raise me. Okay, now that
1:35
Speaker 1: you've got the male image of your mother or your
1:37
Speaker 1: grandmother in your mind, think of some po s technical
1:44
Speaker 1: legal term that actually scams your grandmother, try to rip
1:53
Speaker 1: her off of her little money. He needs to be
1:59
Speaker 1: under the jail. I have nobody disagrees with that. Maybe
2:03
Speaker 1: Troy Slayton, high profile defense attorney, might disagree with me.
2:07
Speaker 1: Take a listen to arqet A. This is Karen Dylan
2:11
Speaker 1: CBS two. The quick thinking of this seventy three year
2:14
Speaker 1: old Seaford grandmother who only wants her first name used. Jean,
2:17
Speaker 1: is being credited for taking down an alleged predator. I
2:21
Speaker 1: knew he was a real scammer. I just knew he
2:23
Speaker 1: wasn't going to scam me. The former nine one one
2:26
Speaker 1: dispatcher says Thursday morning, she received a call from someone
2:29
Speaker 1: claiming to be one of her grandsons. The caller said
2:31
Speaker 1: he had been arrested for drunk driving and was in jail.
2:34
Speaker 1: He starts Chloe me grandma, and then I'm like, I
2:37
Speaker 1: don't have a grandson that drives, So I knew it
2:39
Speaker 1: was a scam. Jean says that she immediately knew the
2:42
Speaker 1: call was a hoax, but decided to play along for fun.
2:44
Speaker 1: After several calls back and forth, a person claiming to
2:47
Speaker 1: be her grandson's lawyer told her he needed eight thousand
2:50
Speaker 1: dollars for bail. I told him I had the money
2:52
Speaker 1: in the house, and I figured he's not going to
2:54
Speaker 1: fall for that. Well he fell for that Hooklyn. Meantime,
2:58
Speaker 1: Jean also called police. When a man pretending to be
3:01
Speaker 1: a bill bondsman arrived to collect the cash. She handed
3:04
Speaker 1: him an envelope filled with paper towels waiting officers, and
3:07
Speaker 1: then pounced and took twenty eight year old Joshua Estrella
3:10
Speaker 1: Gomez from Minneola into custody. Do you know how close
3:15
Speaker 1: this beloved grandma came to real harm? I mean it, See, Grace,
3:22
Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
3:24
Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and series XIM one eleven, and
3:28
Speaker 1: with me right now the former nine one dispatch employee, Jean.
3:35
Speaker 1: Are we still not using your last name? Jean? Sure
3:38
Speaker 1: you can use it, Jeane Everett? Did you hear that?
3:42
Speaker 1: I love that accent so much, Miss Ebert, Miss Everett
3:47
Speaker 1: joining me from Long Island with her son Rusty. You
3:50
Speaker 1: better be taking care of her Rusty. Oh yes, also
3:55
Speaker 1: with me at all start a panel to make sense
3:57
Speaker 1: of what we're learning right now about this this let
4:01
Speaker 1: me just say, very clever grandma who lures a scammer
4:06
Speaker 1: to her house and single handily gets this guy arrested. Man.
4:13
Speaker 1: We don't have a whole lot of happy endings here
4:16
Speaker 1: on crime stories, but I've got one today and PTL
4:20
Speaker 1: praise the Lord with me. High profile defense attorney out
4:24
Speaker 1: of La Troy Slayton, renowned psycho analyst to the stars,
4:27
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, former FBI special agent at Jeff Cortesi
4:32
Speaker 1: dot com Jeff Cortesi, Tampa, Terry, America's leading personal safety expert,
4:38
Speaker 1: author of the Personal Protection Handbook, and special guests, joining
4:43
Speaker 1: us along with Miss Ebert. Robert Brodsky breaking the Reporter
4:47
Speaker 1: with Newsday. First of all, to you, Miss Ebert. What happened? Well?
4:54
Speaker 1: I was texting my son asking him what he was
4:56
Speaker 1: going to do for the day, and was kind of
4:58
Speaker 1: boy doing my cross work puzzles in the morning, and
5:01
Speaker 1: the house phone rings. The only reason old people have
5:04
Speaker 1: a house phone is so they can find their cell phone,
5:07
Speaker 1: so I usually don't answer it, but for something, some reason,
5:11
Speaker 1: I just picked it up and I hear a guy
5:13
Speaker 1: on their crying saying he's been in an accident and
5:17
Speaker 1: At first, I thought it was one of my son
5:19
Speaker 1: in laws who has that weird sense of humor. I
5:21
Speaker 1: thought it was him falling around. But the minute he
5:23
Speaker 1: called me grandma, I knew that it was a scammer.
5:28
Speaker 1: So I texted my son and I said, I have
5:32
Speaker 1: a scammer on the line, and he texted me back
5:34
Speaker 1: and he says, hang up, ma, And that hang up
5:38
Speaker 1: ma from a forty year old to a seventy three
5:40
Speaker 1: year old just kind of like challenging yours. I don't
5:44
Speaker 1: know what happened, but I didn't hang up. Okay, how
5:46
Speaker 1: did you know immediately that this was a scammer? Well,
5:50
Speaker 1: I've worked at nine one one for a long time
5:52
Speaker 1: and I have taken calls from people who want to
5:54
Speaker 1: file a report because they've been scammed, and my brain
5:58
Speaker 1: always thought, how do you let this happen? But now
6:02
Speaker 1: I have a little bit more respect for them, because
6:05
Speaker 1: these scammers are good. Scammers are good. Okay, let me understand.
6:10
Speaker 1: Tell me very slowly, Miss Everett with me is a
6:15
Speaker 1: very clever grandma who single handily gets a felony amount scammer.
6:23
Speaker 1: We're talking eight thousand dollars scam arrested, single handily by
6:30
Speaker 1: luring him. Let's just say she's no idiot. She didn't
6:34
Speaker 1: just fall off the turnip truck. To you, Miss Jeane Everett,
6:38
Speaker 1: joining me, tell me exactly how the conversation went. Okay,
6:41
Speaker 1: So after the person pretending to be my grandson gives
6:46
Speaker 1: me a case number and a phone number and tells
6:49
Speaker 1: me this is the municipal court building. They're trying to
6:52
Speaker 1: get him a lawyer. And he tells me to call
6:54
Speaker 1: that number. So then we say goodbye. Oh. The last
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Speaker 1: thing I said to him before I said goodbye was listen,
7:01
Speaker 1: don't tell your mother. She will be mad. Let me
7:04
Speaker 1: handle this. Don't call your mother. And I think that's
7:08
Speaker 1: kind of what sucked them in because I'm keeping it
7:10
Speaker 1: to myself. They like that scammist, Oh, they love it.
7:14
Speaker 1: They love it. You know. I have a case in
7:17
Speaker 1: my book to you, Tampa Chi, author of the Personal
7:20
Speaker 1: Protection Handbook, which is awesome. In my book, Don't Be
7:23
Speaker 1: a Victim, where a lady, an elderly lady much older
7:28
Speaker 1: than Miss Everett, bought into a guy scam and she
7:33
Speaker 1: kept doing it and doing it and doing it. She
7:36
Speaker 1: didn't want her family to know what she had done.
7:39
Speaker 1: That she had been scammed out of her whole life savings.
7:43
Speaker 1: Every penny had mortgaged the house on this scam. And
7:47
Speaker 1: in the end, Tom she shot herself because she didn't
7:51
Speaker 1: want her family to know well awol. So when we
7:57
Speaker 1: look at these situations, first understand the mindset of these scammers.
8:02
Speaker 1: They really do their homework. They do as much as
8:04
Speaker 1: they can on Intel Google, knowing where the house is,
8:08
Speaker 1: knowing who lives there. In all, I mean, this is
8:10
Speaker 1: pre set. And though they're vicious and what they do
8:14
Speaker 1: in taking our money, they're smart methodical on how they
8:17
Speaker 1: do it. They cater to either need to help someone
8:21
Speaker 1: or the greed for wealth of someone. That's the only
8:23
Speaker 1: way they do it. They want to put you in
8:25
Speaker 1: pity mode, you know, like in this case with this,
8:28
Speaker 1: you know, with the situation, or in the wealth case
8:31
Speaker 1: of you know, listen, somebody left you xy and and
8:35
Speaker 1: they get you down there. You know. The best way,
8:38
Speaker 1: the smartest way on any scan is always asked for
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Speaker 1: a callback number and a number for the supervisor. Okay,
8:46
Speaker 1: I guarantee you they will hang up in about three seconds.
8:49
Speaker 1: You know. We worked on this a lot when I
8:52
Speaker 1: was at the Federal Trade Commission. Where I did consumer
8:55
Speaker 1: protection and antitrust work, and we had a lot of
8:58
Speaker 1: phone scams. So miss Ebbert, you told me that the
9:02
Speaker 1: very beginning when he said did he call you grandma?
9:06
Speaker 1: He called me grandma, right, and he was telling me
9:10
Speaker 1: he was in an accident. And my oldest grandson is
9:13
Speaker 1: in the eighth grade, so I know, you know, I
9:16
Speaker 1: knew where he was and I know he wasn't driving,
9:18
Speaker 1: and just from where I worked, and being aware. Part
9:23
Speaker 1: of the whole thing is the media. If they get
9:26
Speaker 1: out the message to these old people who are really
9:29
Speaker 1: sitting at home wondering, you know, or this is happening
9:32
Speaker 1: to that, maybe they'll think, oh yeah, what about that
9:35
Speaker 1: lady on TV who didn't fall for it? You know,
9:38
Speaker 1: exactly thing real yet awareness Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.
9:56
Speaker 1: Robert Ruski with me from Newsday Breaking the Are you
10:00
Speaker 1: sure you porter? Robert, thank you so much for being
10:02
Speaker 1: with us. Tell me how you first learned about miss
10:04
Speaker 1: Ebert and what you know. The mass Up Police Commissioner,
10:07
Speaker 1: along with the new County Executive of the County of Nassau,
10:10
Speaker 1: held a news conference to alert the public about this
10:13
Speaker 1: scam and to also give credit to Gene for her
10:16
Speaker 1: ingenuity and creativity in taking and helping to take down
10:20
Speaker 1: this perpetrator, to also announced this individual's arrest and to
10:25
Speaker 1: talk about how the public can prepare themselves against being
10:30
Speaker 1: a victim of this scam as well. What didn't we
10:32
Speaker 1: know about this guy, Robert Brosky, this Joshua Gomez. So
10:36
Speaker 1: what we know so far is that mister Gomez has
10:38
Speaker 1: had no prior arrests prior to this incident. He was
10:43
Speaker 1: charged with a third degree attempted grand larceny, that's a felony.
10:47
Speaker 1: He was initially released on a disk appearance tickets. He
10:51
Speaker 1: was due back February third. He was released on his
10:54
Speaker 1: own recognizance on February third. There was a protective order issued,
10:59
Speaker 1: so he can't have any contact with Jeane. We should
11:02
Speaker 1: also say that when Jeane when mister Gomez was arrested,
11:08
Speaker 1: Jane was on the phone with a second individual at
11:10
Speaker 1: the moment, So there is undoubtedly a second individual involved
11:14
Speaker 1: in this crime. I spoke with Nationale Police yesterday. Has
11:18
Speaker 1: not been a second arrest yet made in the case,
11:21
Speaker 1: but it is an open investigation. They say, Frosky, you're awesome.
11:24
Speaker 1: So I didn't even know there was a potentially second
11:27
Speaker 1: person involved in the scam on Miss Ebbart, but it
11:32
Speaker 1: makes it there could be two or three. I bet
11:34
Speaker 1: they're doing this to a lot of people. I wonder
11:37
Speaker 1: where they're getting the names and numbers of the grandma's,
11:40
Speaker 1: the seniors guys before we call her grandma. Take a
11:47
Speaker 1: listen to ar cut one Eileen La Palmer at these twelve. Hello, Hi,
11:52
Speaker 1: this is ring doorbell video of a man who police
11:55
Speaker 1: say thought he was going to rip off a Seaford
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Speaker 1: grandma for eight thousand dollars. Police say twenty eight year
12:02
Speaker 1: old Joshua Estrella Gomez of Minneola was posing as a
12:06
Speaker 1: bail bondsman. The victim had been told her grandson was
12:10
Speaker 1: in jail. But watch what happens after he gets the
12:13
Speaker 1: envelope that takedown because seventy three year old Jean was
12:22
Speaker 1: onto the scam and already had police in her house.
12:25
Speaker 1: As we told you about first last night. She is
12:28
Speaker 1: a former NASSA nine one one call operator and reached
12:31
Speaker 1: out to cops as soon as she got a phone
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Speaker 1: call from a man claiming to be her grandson. He said,
12:38
Speaker 1: I'm in jail. They say I was under the influence
12:41
Speaker 1: today Jean getting praise from the police commissioner. She's not
12:45
Speaker 1: afraid of these guys. You know, she goes what she
12:47
Speaker 1: had to do, and you know, God bless her talent,
12:50
Speaker 1: God bless her. But it could have turned out so
12:51
Speaker 1: much differently with this guy actually coming to your house.
12:56
Speaker 1: I mean, doctor Bethany Marshall, what kind of a freak,
13:01
Speaker 1: what kind of a degenerate would pray on a grandma
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Speaker 1: actually get out the trouble of going to her house
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Speaker 1: to get the money? Nancy, This happened to my ninety
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Speaker 1: two year old dad a few months ago. Somebody calls
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Speaker 1: him from out of the blue and says, Grandpa, this
13:18
Speaker 1: is so and so one of the names of one
13:21
Speaker 1: of his grandchildren. I've been thrown in jail again for DUI.
13:25
Speaker 1: And you know you're asking, first of all, how he
13:28
Speaker 1: knew it was a scammer? Is they didn't call him
13:30
Speaker 1: Grandpa John, they called him Grandpa Definitely. He felt so
13:36
Speaker 1: stupid and foolish afterwards, even though he hung up on
13:39
Speaker 1: the scammers. So people who get scammed, I mean, our
13:42
Speaker 1: guest has been a ninety one one operator is really
13:46
Speaker 1: on her toes. So she knew what was happening. But
13:48
Speaker 1: there are a lot of seniors out there who get
13:51
Speaker 1: scammed and then they're so demoralized they don't want to
13:55
Speaker 1: tell anybody. But back to your question about who would
13:58
Speaker 1: do this, people who lack a conscience, Nancy, because they're
14:02
Speaker 1: not just taking money from billionaires. They're taking money from
14:07
Speaker 1: older people who are maybe on Social Security or limited income.
14:11
Speaker 1: And they're not just taking one hundred dollars, they're taking
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Speaker 1: in this case, eight thousand dollars. So these people are
14:18
Speaker 1: at the bottom of the barrel in terms of lacking
14:22
Speaker 1: a conscience. Guys, in this case thanks to the victim.
14:27
Speaker 1: I guess I could call a victim is she's sure
14:29
Speaker 1: turned the tables on him. Grandma Jean Ebert. It doesn't
14:34
Speaker 1: always turn out with a happy ending. Take a listen
14:37
Speaker 1: to This is about the case that we investigated I
14:40
Speaker 1: told you about earlier hour cut six. This is actually
14:46
Speaker 1: Angela Stands testimony at the Senate Aging Committee. My grandmother
14:51
Speaker 1: was targeted and pursued NonStop by a ring of fraudsters.
14:55
Speaker 1: Over time. These individuals used creative and cunning tactics to
14:59
Speaker 1: gain her trust. They told her she had won a
15:02
Speaker 1: large cash prize and all she needed to do was
15:04
Speaker 1: pay the taxes and fees. I first realized my grandmother
15:08
Speaker 1: was a victim of elder fraud by the last conversation
15:11
Speaker 1: I ever had with her, reliving that phone call, it's
15:14
Speaker 1: very painful. She explained that she needed six thousand dollars
15:17
Speaker 1: wired to her as soon as possible. Her forceful tone
15:21
Speaker 1: and desperation was very upsetting. I could hear the panic
15:25
Speaker 1: in her voice, and she was very, very afraid. This
15:29
Speaker 1: phone call set off many red flags, and everyone grew
15:33
Speaker 1: extremely concerned about her financial situation. We do not know
15:37
Speaker 1: of a single time in her entire life where she
15:40
Speaker 1: ever borrowed money from an individual. My father informed me
15:44
Speaker 1: that he had wired her eight thousand dollars the week prior,
15:48
Speaker 1: and he assured me he was trying to find out
15:50
Speaker 1: what was happening. How did it end Take a listen
15:55
Speaker 1: to our cut. Eight after her death, we found out
15:59
Speaker 1: just how much these criminals had taken from her. We
16:02
Speaker 1: found hidden in a closet several bags full of wire
16:06
Speaker 1: receipts where she had been sending large sums of money overseas.
16:10
Speaker 1: My family visited these wire marketing services to talk with
16:13
Speaker 1: the clerks and discovered that they had warned her that
16:17
Speaker 1: this was not legitimate and they believed it was a scam.
16:20
Speaker 1: She continued to wire money, but used a different location.
16:24
Speaker 1: We also discovered not only did they drain her of
16:27
Speaker 1: all the money it took her a lifetime to save,
16:29
Speaker 1: but that she had taken out a reverse mortgage on
16:31
Speaker 1: her home and she cashed out all of her life insurance.
16:35
Speaker 1: My grandmother died with sixty nine dollars in her bank account.
16:40
Speaker 1: You know how hard my father worked and his goal
16:44
Speaker 1: was to try to leave something to his children when
16:47
Speaker 1: he passed away. I remember that he would actually go
16:50
Speaker 1: to work with chess pains to go to work on
16:54
Speaker 1: the railroad. That's how hard he worked. And when I
16:57
Speaker 1: think of this, Grandma, Angela stan SI's grandma, take a
17:03
Speaker 1: listen to our cut for the way that they kept
17:07
Speaker 1: reaching her was through a method called spoofing. Listen. My
17:13
Speaker 1: grandmother was targeted and pursued NonStop by a ring of fraudsters.
17:19
Speaker 1: Robocallers targeted eighty two year old Marjorie Jones. We found
17:25
Speaker 1: hidden in a closet several bags full of wire receipts
17:30
Speaker 1: where she had been sending large sums of money overseas.
17:34
Speaker 1: Her granddaughter Angela Stanzi, testified before the US Senate. It
17:40
Speaker 1: was a ten person ring in Costa Rica. It was
17:44
Speaker 1: a call center and they focused on calling people. They
17:50
Speaker 1: posed as representatives of the US Security and Exchange Commission
17:56
Speaker 1: and also the FTC and using call spoofing technology. Spoofing
18:01
Speaker 1: tricks people into believing the call is coming from a
18:04
Speaker 1: specific location. The last phone call I had with her,
18:08
Speaker 1: she was extremely adamant about needing this money. You were
18:12
Speaker 1: just hearing our friends at ABC ten describing the spoofing
18:16
Speaker 1: technique that was used. Now opposed to that case, the
18:19
Speaker 1: case here with miss Jean Ebert had a very different ending.
18:24
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, take a listen to our cut.
18:27
Speaker 1: See this is body camp footageybody want to talk to
18:34
Speaker 1: the guy on the phone? Up? I guess he realized
18:37
Speaker 1: what happened to you, Miss Ebert, the so called clever
18:41
Speaker 1: grandma that lured a scammer to his own arrest. Is
18:46
Speaker 1: that you in the background saying does anybody want to
18:48
Speaker 1: talk to the guy on the phone? Oh? He hung up?
18:50
Speaker 1: I guess he realized what happening? What happened? That's me? Well,
18:55
Speaker 1: I had a guy on the phone. That must have
18:57
Speaker 1: been fifteen phone calls. This took place over a period
19:00
Speaker 1: of three hours, and my son knew I was doing it.
19:04
Speaker 1: He knew I was playing around. I don't believe that
19:07
Speaker 1: the scam and knew who I was. But the minute
19:09
Speaker 1: he thought he had somebody on the line, he started
19:13
Speaker 1: investigating me because I used my middle name, and at
19:17
Speaker 1: some point he asked me who Helen was. He was
19:19
Speaker 1: looking at my address and who lives here and stuff
19:22
Speaker 1: like that, so I do think he investigated me. I
19:27
Speaker 1: actually went on Facebook and on my profile I took
19:31
Speaker 1: off retired one one one upright, because I think if
19:34
Speaker 1: he looked at Facebook could see that he'd hang up.
19:36
Speaker 1: That's why I really at in the beginning, maybe for
19:40
Speaker 1: the first hour and a half of conversations, I didn't
19:43
Speaker 1: really think it was going to happen. And then once
19:46
Speaker 1: he told me I don't. I think he told me
19:50
Speaker 1: he knew where I lived from my grandson telling him,
19:53
Speaker 1: which is not really true, but he made that up.
19:56
Speaker 1: I don't think I evigate him my address because he
20:01
Speaker 1: didn't have a grandson's name of mine. He actually, during
20:05
Speaker 1: one of the phone calls, just before I got to
20:07
Speaker 1: talk to the lawyer end of it. I was talking
20:10
Speaker 1: to someone in the municipal court. He asked me what
20:14
Speaker 1: my grandson's name was. So I took the first name
20:17
Speaker 1: of one of my son in law's, Emmanuel, and the
20:20
Speaker 1: last name of one of my other son in law's Muro,
20:22
Speaker 1: and made up a name. And then he says to me,
20:24
Speaker 1: hold on, let me see where he is in the system.
20:27
Speaker 1: It comes back five minutes later and he says, oh,
20:29
Speaker 1: I see him. We appointed a lawyer for him named
20:32
Speaker 1: Matt Levine. Mean, while I just made this name up.
20:47
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace Chroyce Layton, what do you
20:54
Speaker 1: think about that if a scammer was to use your name,
20:57
Speaker 1: you know, he looked up a lawyer in town and
20:59
Speaker 1: just used the name awful. And that actually happened to
21:03
Speaker 1: me once. I got a call from a bail bondsman
21:05
Speaker 1: who called my office and was said that he was
21:09
Speaker 1: calling me back and that somebody using my name had
21:14
Speaker 1: contacted him and tried to get the bail bondsman to
21:17
Speaker 1: bail the person out just based on my good faith
21:22
Speaker 1: and credit. And the bail bondsman reached out to me
21:25
Speaker 1: and obviously figured out that that was a scam. But
21:30
Speaker 1: I my hats off to this savvy grandma who was
21:35
Speaker 1: able to not only have fun with the scammer, but
21:39
Speaker 1: also got him caught by law enforcement. Although I wouldn't
21:43
Speaker 1: recommend that anybody actually do that and have the person
21:48
Speaker 1: come to their house because this could have turned out
21:51
Speaker 1: quite differently to Russie. Ever, this is Jane's son. Tell
21:56
Speaker 1: me your recollections of this day. Well, I was just
21:59
Speaker 1: home to I was home too at my house, and uh,
22:03
Speaker 1: you know, we do text every day. I talked to
22:04
Speaker 1: my mom every day and she was telling me, and
22:06
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't play no attention to it because
22:08
Speaker 1: it does happen quite often. You know. She does get
22:11
Speaker 1: these calls and you know all these other you know,
22:14
Speaker 1: tell the marketing calls and stuff. So um, then she
22:19
Speaker 1: started telling me that, uh, you know that they're getting
22:22
Speaker 1: the police involved. I called my sister that actually works
22:25
Speaker 1: at a police department, and I said, hey, you gotta
22:27
Speaker 1: call your mother. Man, I don't know what she's doing
22:29
Speaker 1: over there. And then and then it just happened so quick.
22:33
Speaker 1: I just you know, I actually have I set up
22:36
Speaker 1: on her ring doorbell, so I got to see what happened,
22:40
Speaker 1: like live on the Ring. I love the ring, Doorbell,
22:45
Speaker 1: I love it. Oh boy keeps setting it off all
22:49
Speaker 1: the time. Hey, Jeff Cortes Firmer, FBI Special Asian and
22:54
Speaker 1: Jeff Cortesi dot Com author a public rruption in the US.
22:58
Speaker 1: Jump in, Jeff. Yeah, I've been doing this with you
23:02
Speaker 1: a little bit off and on over the last three years.
23:04
Speaker 1: And this is the closest thing to a Nancy Grace
23:07
Speaker 1: feel good moments I've ever been a part of it.
23:10
Speaker 1: And I'm so glad to be on it U with
23:13
Speaker 1: a story like this and ending like this, because, as
23:16
Speaker 1: it's been pointed out, I think all of us have
23:18
Speaker 1: a story. I have two, three, four personal stories of
23:23
Speaker 1: elder abuse, elder fraud, victimization within you know, my circle
23:28
Speaker 1: of family and friends. Sounds like we all do. The
23:31
Speaker 1: volume of this is through the roof and it's a
23:35
Speaker 1: high volume crime because it's a high success rate, you know,
23:39
Speaker 1: when when you put the numbers together. Thank God for
23:42
Speaker 1: the savvy of this woman and the awareness. You know,
23:45
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, let's if we've got
23:47
Speaker 1: to educate our families, We got to educate our our
23:49
Speaker 1: loved was. If it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't.
23:53
Speaker 1: If it's too good to be true, it probably is. Uh. So,
23:56
Speaker 1: you know, Dancy, if I could jump in about this
23:59
Speaker 1: for a second, stop you yes, no way, go ahead. No,
24:04
Speaker 1: it is to feel good moment. I mean, it's wonderful
24:07
Speaker 1: to hear his grandmother, who had all this experience being
24:10
Speaker 1: a nine one one caller, was incredibly resilient, had loving
24:15
Speaker 1: support and family around her. She's tech savvy, so she
24:19
Speaker 1: could go on and off Facebook. She had every psychological resource.
24:24
Speaker 1: But for every gene, there are thousands and thousands of
24:28
Speaker 1: men and women who are not that with it, aware, resilient.
24:35
Speaker 1: There are a lot of victims in society, Nancy. That's
24:37
Speaker 1: why you do this show. And I just want to
24:39
Speaker 1: say that there are stages when people get scammed like this.
24:42
Speaker 1: If they're not resilient like a gene. Often they're cut
24:45
Speaker 1: off from family or they feel guilty, so they don't
24:48
Speaker 1: tell the people around them. They develop a quick rapport
24:52
Speaker 1: with the scammers, and so they make quick promises like oh, sure,
24:57
Speaker 1: I'll be happy to call the balesman or whoever. And
25:01
Speaker 1: then because they've made a promise, they feel guilty about
25:04
Speaker 1: backing out. These scammers alienate them from friends and loved
25:08
Speaker 1: ones by saying, you know, don't tell anybody about this
25:11
Speaker 1: until this transaction is complete. And just like sexual abuse victims,
25:16
Speaker 1: they start to blame themselves to feel demoralized, and then
25:20
Speaker 1: they don't reach out for help, and so it's the
25:22
Speaker 1: same victimization cycle that we talk about again and again.
25:26
Speaker 1: This is a total triumph and a total success story,
25:29
Speaker 1: but unfortunately most people are vulnerable to being victims and
25:34
Speaker 1: they really need to learn from this. It's it's a
25:35
Speaker 1: really imforable situation. Guys, we are talking about a clever
25:40
Speaker 1: granny that actually turned the tables on a guy that
25:44
Speaker 1: was trying to scam her out of eight grand I'm
25:49
Speaker 1: very curious as to Robert Brodsky, how many times this
25:56
Speaker 1: particular perp, Joshua Gomez, had done the same thing. Any
26:01
Speaker 1: idea me Can they get that information from his cell phone?
26:04
Speaker 1: That's a great question, Nancy. As of now, I just
26:07
Speaker 1: as I said earlier, he's never been charged, so we
26:10
Speaker 1: can imagine that this is probably not his first road.
26:13
Speaker 1: It's probably not the first time he's ever tried to
26:15
Speaker 1: do this scam. But we know that these scams are
26:20
Speaker 1: happening all the time on long Island all the time
26:22
Speaker 1: in Nassau County. This incident happened in the first the
26:27
Speaker 1: third week of January, just about it. In perspective, there
26:31
Speaker 1: had already been one hundred and sixty five reported scams
26:35
Speaker 1: of a similar nature in the first three weeks of
26:38
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, so you can imagine right at this
26:41
Speaker 1: point it is probably a close over two hundred to
26:43
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty times. What's unusual about this case
26:48
Speaker 1: is most times we see in Long Island. I can
26:50
Speaker 1: speak for myself as well, we just simply hang up.
26:53
Speaker 1: We just avoid. It's not worth the time and the effort.
26:56
Speaker 1: So so many of these cases never even get reported.
26:59
Speaker 1: Wherever you two hundred and fifty cases reported the first
27:02
Speaker 1: six weeks of the year, there's probably five times as
27:06
Speaker 1: many that just never get reported. Well, this savvy grandma says,
27:12
Speaker 1: and I quote, I told him I had the money
27:14
Speaker 1: in the house, and I figure he's not going to
27:16
Speaker 1: fall for that. Well, he fell for it hook line
27:20
Speaker 1: and sink her. Actually, Nancy, yeah, I told this is
27:24
Speaker 1: what I told him. I told him I was getting
27:27
Speaker 1: my kitchen remodel. When he asked for the eight thousand
27:29
Speaker 1: and I said I'm getting my kitchen remodeled. The cabinets
27:32
Speaker 1: are coming next week, and my contractor asked me to
27:36
Speaker 1: pay for them in cash. So I do have the
27:39
Speaker 1: money in the house. And he says to me, this
27:42
Speaker 1: is Matt Levine, the lawyer. He says, do you know
27:45
Speaker 1: why your contractor asked you to pay in cash? And
27:49
Speaker 1: I said, I acted dumb. I said no, I have
27:51
Speaker 1: no idea. He says, because he's not going to pay tax.
27:54
Speaker 1: And my brain went so he is the pot calling
27:58
Speaker 1: the kettle black. This guy trying to tell me my
28:01
Speaker 1: imaginary contractor is crooked and he's trying to scam me,
28:05
Speaker 1: scare me at eight thousand dollars. Took everything I can
28:09
Speaker 1: do not to crack up. Oh my goodness, you made
28:13
Speaker 1: me laugh for about the first time today. Okay, Russy Everett,
28:18
Speaker 1: did you have any idea? Your mom is so savvy?
28:22
Speaker 1: Just yeah. When I was younger, I I never got
28:26
Speaker 1: away with anything. Okay, guys, you need to listen. You
28:31
Speaker 1: did too, Yes, you did, I know you did? Like
28:34
Speaker 1: to any listen. I worked at nine one one and
28:37
Speaker 1: this kid was driving since he was three years old.
28:40
Speaker 1: When he put the car in reverse and rolled it
28:42
Speaker 1: across the street into my neighbor's fence. And then when
28:45
Speaker 1: he had his permit and didn't have his license, I
28:48
Speaker 1: would hear from all the cops in the era, take
28:51
Speaker 1: the keys, hide the keys, runs he's out again. I
28:54
Speaker 1: couldn't wait till he got his license. Russie Everett, don't
28:57
Speaker 1: you know better than I trying to tell a lie
28:59
Speaker 1: with your mom. I'm listening crime stories with Nancy Grace.
29:21
Speaker 1: We are talking about an actual success story in finding crime.
29:26
Speaker 1: Jane Ebert, age seventy three, actually takes down a scammer,
29:31
Speaker 1: has him arrested and hauled off out of her front yard.
29:36
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut b our friends at
29:39
Speaker 1: CBS two. Police say the suspect was arrested and charged
29:42
Speaker 1: with attempted grand larceny in the third degree. He was
29:45
Speaker 1: issued a desk appearance ticket and will be arraigned on
29:47
Speaker 1: February third. Police a elder scams like this one are rampant.
29:51
Speaker 1: Officers are asking the community to be on alerts. Speak
29:54
Speaker 1: to your families, speak to your neighbors, visit those that
29:58
Speaker 1: are vulnerable. Let them don't listen to these scams. These
30:02
Speaker 1: individuals sit at home. I have nothing else to do
30:04
Speaker 1: but think of a way to take advantage of our
30:06
Speaker 1: elderly Jean is also asking people to watch out. So
30:09
Speaker 1: I feel I got you, and I feel like, like
30:11
Speaker 1: you say, so many people fall for this and you
30:15
Speaker 1: only hear about it on the other end after they've
30:17
Speaker 1: lost eight thousand dollars. She hopes her story will serve
30:20
Speaker 1: as a cautionary tale for others and is glad no
30:23
Speaker 1: one was hurt in the process. Jean Everett, were you
30:26
Speaker 1: ever physically afraid that this guy would charge into the
30:30
Speaker 1: house and steal or hurt you? Basically, I was having
30:33
Speaker 1: fun right up until the bail bondsman part. Maybe this
30:40
Speaker 1: thing took three hours. The last hour the police were here,
30:45
Speaker 1: and then about forty minutes after the police got here,
30:49
Speaker 1: he was under arrest. What happened is the bail bondsman
30:53
Speaker 1: was in Jersey, he was in Brooklyn. He was all
30:56
Speaker 1: over and the guy kept giving me instructions what to write.
31:00
Speaker 1: He gave me a file number, he gave me a
31:02
Speaker 1: case number, how to put it on the envelope, and
31:05
Speaker 1: he kept Then he would three or four calls later
31:08
Speaker 1: he would say, what does it say on the envelope?
31:11
Speaker 1: And I would have to read everything back to him.
31:13
Speaker 1: I guess he wanted to see that I was really
31:15
Speaker 1: doing it. But then he says to Melt. The last
31:19
Speaker 1: two phone calls, he says to me, well, as luck
31:23
Speaker 1: would have it, I have an operative who just finished
31:27
Speaker 1: a job in Massapequa. And I look at the cops,
31:29
Speaker 1: and the cops look at me. Massapequa is the next
31:32
Speaker 1: town where my two daughters lived, and so he says
31:36
Speaker 1: he's on his way, he'll be there and under ten minutes.
31:40
Speaker 1: So the cops go flying out of the house. They're
31:43
Speaker 1: getting their cars that are sitting in front of my house,
31:46
Speaker 1: and they take them down to the firehouse and they
31:48
Speaker 1: come back and within five minutes the guy was here.
31:52
Speaker 1: That ten minutes of saying he's less than ten minutes away.
31:55
Speaker 1: I was a little scared for the cops for me,
31:58
Speaker 1: what if he has a gun? I didn't, And it
32:01
Speaker 1: went down perfectly. Even the bad guy did what he's
32:04
Speaker 1: supposed to do. He didn't fight, he didn't resist a rest,
32:08
Speaker 1: he didn't get beat up. Nothing bad happened to him.
32:11
Speaker 1: You know, miss Everett, you played him like a settle.
32:16
Speaker 1: You're like a concert violinist the way he played this guy.
32:22
Speaker 1: And to you. Robert Brodsky joining us Brickie news reporter
32:25
Speaker 1: from Newsday. I was researching, but I believe you've already
32:30
Speaker 1: identified this. Seniors in America a line were scammed one
32:34
Speaker 1: billion billion dollars in twenty twenty from three hundred million
32:40
Speaker 1: the previous year. And that's just what we know of.
32:43
Speaker 1: A lot of them won't fess up that they have
32:46
Speaker 1: been scammed. Robert, it's really it's really a tragedy. What's
32:50
Speaker 1: going on? I mean, I think I don't think there's
32:52
Speaker 1: a person listening to this program who has not received
32:55
Speaker 1: a call, reportedly from Social Security or from the IRS
32:59
Speaker 1: report ordering about scare tax returns out here on Long Island.
33:03
Speaker 1: The PSC and G is the utility company that we
33:09
Speaker 1: have a scam that says, you know, I'm calling from
33:12
Speaker 1: the utility company and I need your information from your
33:14
Speaker 1: utility bill looking for that kind of information. The New
33:17
Speaker 1: York Lottery is a really big one, saying we have
33:20
Speaker 1: you were a winning ticket, you know, just calling people
33:23
Speaker 1: randomly and trying to say that they have a winning
33:25
Speaker 1: lottery ticket. And all you have to do is provide
33:27
Speaker 1: us with your debit card information so you can deposit
33:30
Speaker 1: that winning lottery information. It goes on and on and on.
33:34
Speaker 1: Robert Brodsky, do you know a scammer even called me?
33:38
Speaker 1: While I was an assistant district attorney prosecuting felonies every day.
33:43
Speaker 1: I have been in court all day, dragged my all
33:47
Speaker 1: my files to the car, got home by this time
33:50
Speaker 1: it was like seven something a clock, almost eight, and
33:56
Speaker 1: maybe the day before I have been an a fenderbender,
34:00
Speaker 1: my fault. I want that on the record. And the
34:03
Speaker 1: phone rang at home. The phone home phone never rang
34:06
Speaker 1: because I would never give out my phone number, so
34:09
Speaker 1: I assumed it was somebody in my family, like my mom.
34:13
Speaker 1: I picked it up, and this guy had his deep
34:16
Speaker 1: voice and he said, oh, he wanted to file a
34:20
Speaker 1: lawsuit against the guy that ran into me. And I said, listen, Jackass,
34:26
Speaker 1: I'm a felony prosecutor in Fulton County. Now I've got
34:29
Speaker 1: your number. You're runner and this is unethical and against
34:32
Speaker 1: the law. He hung up. So, yeah, explained Troy Sleighton,
34:37
Speaker 1: what that Well, I already said, Jackass. I won't say
34:40
Speaker 1: it again. Troy, explain why that was illegal and unethical.
34:45
Speaker 1: It's called capping Nancy, and it's uh, you know, ambulance
34:50
Speaker 1: chasing and capping are unethical and illegal for attorneys. You
34:56
Speaker 1: can't pay a non lawyer to bring cases as to you.
35:01
Speaker 1: You're not and you're not supposed to solicit somebody when
35:04
Speaker 1: they're most vulnerable. An attorney can't drop their card when
35:09
Speaker 1: the ambulance is picking somebody up on the side of
35:12
Speaker 1: the road after the accident. You can't go to somebody's
35:15
Speaker 1: hospital bed after they've been in an accident. You can't
35:18
Speaker 1: go to hospital, go room to room, see who's been
35:20
Speaker 1: accidents and drop off business cards. Or to have a
35:23
Speaker 1: non lawyer do the same thing and then sell the
35:25
Speaker 1: cases to an attorney. That's illegal. Well, was so very
35:28
Speaker 1: concerning about that was nobody outside my family had a
35:32
Speaker 1: home number for me. Nobody and my boss, the elected
35:35
Speaker 1: district attorney, so Jeff Cortez's former FBI, he had to
35:40
Speaker 1: get it off the police report, which means he had
35:43
Speaker 1: somebody within the APD, maybe a Clark. I don't know
35:47
Speaker 1: who feeding car crash victims phone numbers. Unfortunately, you know
35:54
Speaker 1: that that happens. Yeah, this is one of those instances
35:57
Speaker 1: where it probably did happen just like that. I doubt
36:00
Speaker 1: it was a lawyer. I think it was a runner
36:02
Speaker 1: that would bring cases two lawyers. You just heard choice
36:05
Speaker 1: late and talking about Okay, so I can't tell you
36:07
Speaker 1: how long I researched this exact thing for the book.
36:10
Speaker 1: Don't be a victim, and I have a list on
36:13
Speaker 1: page three forty two. Take a list of this. Gene
36:16
Speaker 1: and Rusty have call n I D learn how to
36:19
Speaker 1: use it. When you're quote grandchild calls, you'll recognize it's
36:22
Speaker 1: an unknown number. Don't buy anything from an unfamiliar company.
36:27
Speaker 1: Legitimate businesses know you want more information, and they're happy
36:31
Speaker 1: to provide information and references. Request written materials on the offer,
36:37
Speaker 1: the phone offer, or the charity. Wait until the material
36:41
Speaker 1: arise before you commit your money. If the material involves
36:44
Speaker 1: a substantial amount of money, ask somebody with a finance
36:48
Speaker 1: background about it. Investigate check out the company with better
36:52
Speaker 1: business bureau. Contact the state attorney general or the National
36:55
Speaker 1: Fraud Information Center to find out if that company has
36:59
Speaker 1: ever been boarded. Get the caller's name, number, street mailing address.
37:03
Speaker 1: Ask a caller for a mailing address and then google it.
37:07
Speaker 1: You know you can put an address into Google and
37:09
Speaker 1: we'll pull up information. The last time the house or
37:12
Speaker 1: the apartment was sold all kinds of information. Google details
37:17
Speaker 1: like the company name, the caller's name. A lot could
37:20
Speaker 1: pop up. Verify the info. Is it the right address
37:24
Speaker 1: and number? If not, something's hinky. Before you donate to charity,
37:28
Speaker 1: ask a percentage of your gift goes to commissions. Never
37:32
Speaker 1: pay an advance for services. Never hand over a money
37:36
Speaker 1: to a messenger. Gene Everett knew that one really well.
37:40
Speaker 1: Never wire money after a phone pitch. Take your time.
37:45
Speaker 1: There's no such thing as a fee on a free prize.
37:49
Speaker 1: That's what happened to the elder that ultimately committed suicide.
37:54
Speaker 1: Fees and taxes. If the caller says the payments for taxes,
37:58
Speaker 1: that's against the law. And this is a calm. Give
38:00
Speaker 1: out your credit credit card expiration dates. If you've been scammed.
38:04
Speaker 1: Beware of callers who then call to try to help
38:07
Speaker 1: you get your money back. If you have information about
38:10
Speaker 1: a fraud, report it saying no on the phone, it's
38:13
Speaker 1: not being rude. And never inter a deal. You don't understand.
38:17
Speaker 1: I got so many facts in here, Tampa Tire. You
38:19
Speaker 1: got anything to add to that? Well, the biggest thing
38:22
Speaker 1: that these shows and things like you're writing the book,
38:25
Speaker 1: does it educates people. But you know, we have one
38:28
Speaker 1: sad statistic in our country that less than ten percent
38:31
Speaker 1: of our country will ever attend a safety or seminar
38:35
Speaker 1: based on safety. And it's really because people are uneducated
38:40
Speaker 1: in this realm that people don't understand. Also these segments
38:45
Speaker 1: that these do, these these spooking, these fishing expeditions. Right now,
38:48
Speaker 1: it's vehicle maintenance, it's irs and it's you know, getting
38:53
Speaker 1: a loved one out of jail now that's six months
38:55
Speaker 1: from now, will change to beneficiary. You know, it'll change
38:59
Speaker 1: the social sury and every six months they change their ways.
39:03
Speaker 1: So we have to pay attention and more shows like
39:05
Speaker 1: this to educate people in the way to go. I'd
39:07
Speaker 1: like to add something quickly in Okay, I have an
39:10
Speaker 1: acquaintance who raises millions and millions of dollars for USC
39:14
Speaker 1: and he said to me about a month ago, Bethany,
39:17
Speaker 1: you know how I get money out of people? And
39:19
Speaker 1: I said, how he goes I develop a relationship with them.
39:23
Speaker 1: They may not give it to me today, they may
39:24
Speaker 1: not give it to me next month. But the longer
39:27
Speaker 1: it takes for them to write that check, the guilty
39:30
Speaker 1: or they feel and I'll eventually get the money that
39:33
Speaker 1: encompasses so much of what we've already been talking about, Nancy.
39:37
Speaker 1: But you said on page three forty seven, there's this list,
39:41
Speaker 1: and one of the things that popped out was when
39:44
Speaker 1: something doesn't pass the smell test, you feel guilty and
39:48
Speaker 1: you're afraid to ask questions, and you get isolated from
39:51
Speaker 1: the people you loved, you're afraid to tell anyone else
39:53
Speaker 1: about it. Then certainly it's not a letshit. But you
39:56
Speaker 1: don't need to have a relationship with anybody who calls
39:59
Speaker 1: your house randomly. You don't owe them anything. They are strangers.
40:04
Speaker 1: You owe to your family and your loved ones, not
40:06
Speaker 1: somebody at the other end of a phone call to
40:09
Speaker 1: Jeane Ebert joining us the hero today, Jane Ebert, Not
40:15
Speaker 1: everyone is as savvy, as smart, as quit witted as
40:19
Speaker 1: you are. What is your message today, missus? Lady? My
40:23
Speaker 1: basic message is, don't ever send anybody any kind of
40:28
Speaker 1: money anywhere, don't ever have anybody pick it up at
40:32
Speaker 1: your house, and basically most people should just hang up
40:35
Speaker 1: on the scammus. You are something else, Jane Ebert. Rusty.
40:41
Speaker 1: You got a good deal going on with your mom.
40:43
Speaker 1: You take care of her, okay, as if she can't
40:45
Speaker 1: take care of herself, I can finally end Crime Stories
40:50
Speaker 1: today with a smile. Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend,