Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #157 Real Crocodile Tears

Transcript

#157 Real Crocodile Tears · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Avoidance actually blocks out something that we need to move towards.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: The more we can move towards those memories, the more
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: we can process them, we can make meaning from them.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families Podcast.
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: wants answers.
• 0:18
  Speaker 4: Now.
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  Speaker 1: I'm doctor Justin Coulson, the author of six books about
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: raising happy families, and I'm here with my wife co
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: hosts missus Happy Families, Kylie.
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: So the other morning I had this interesting experience, i'll say,
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: with the kids. One of our daughters came out of
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: her bedroom and she was sobbing, hysterically sobbing. I had
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: no idea what was going on. But once I realized,
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: I had to get a little bit of footage and
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  Speaker 3: I have as sup permission and I'm going to share
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: it with you because it was hilarious.
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  Speaker 2: I was, well, mixt just died. It's like the best
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: character in the book.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, that's so good. So there's a character
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: in a book has died and she's lost the plot.
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  Speaker 3: She has devastated.
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  Speaker 1: She loves to read, she loves her. But this is
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  Speaker 1: a fictional book, right, this is not the real deal.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: No, it's not, and it went on. I think we
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: kind of had about twenty five minutes because she would
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: she would calm down.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: So this was my morning bike ride morning. I missed
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  Speaker 2: all the action.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: You missed it all. She would calm down and then
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: something would trigger, someone would say something and she would
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  Speaker 3: just just gush.
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  Speaker 2: Did you give her a big hud?
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: I did give her a big hug. Okay, But there
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: was definitely some laughter in there as well. And the
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: funny thing is even she she recognizes how how funny
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: it is, and so she would start laughing because she
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  Speaker 3: would make herself, you know, kind of realize that this
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: was this was actually a bit a bit crazy that
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: she was so hysterical, but her laughter would actually lead
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: that into another beud of tears. She kind of started saying,
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: but it's not funny.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: I love the recording.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: But this leads to something that happened just in the
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: last couple of days with one of our other kids,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: our little one. During the last holidays, we went to
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  Speaker 1: Australia Zoo, which is the you the home of Steve
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  Speaker 1: Erwin Bindi and Terry and Robert and all the crocodiles
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: and all that kind of thing and.
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  Speaker 3: Such a great sue. We've had so much fun going there.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Absolutely great zoo.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: And you bought the Terry Erwin memoir where she talks
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: about her life with Steve.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: Can't it's such an incredible story. Like just he's so iconic.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: We've seen the videos. We know how adventurous and crazy
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: and passionate he was. But reading the story from Terry's
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: point of view that there's no there's just there's no
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: there's no glory in it. There's just this is life.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: This is exactly what it was like.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: But it sounds I mean, I can't wait to read it.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Everything you've told me, I feel like I've read the
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: book already. But he just like he's just such a
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: dead set, faired income character and a ball agate a
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: million miles an hour and let's get up in the
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: middle of and go catch crocs and we'll just walk
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: into the water.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: And you know, like it sounds like it's incredible.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: But you had this experience just after you know, the
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: tears of the fictional person dying. You've had this experience
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: where you were having morning huggies with Emily, our six
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: year old, and she said, read to me, what are
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: you reading? So you started to read to her about
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Steve Irwin.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I love I love that. You know, she's still
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: in this space where she just wants to kind of
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: be close, and it doesn't happen very often, but every
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: now and again she'll kind of just say, can you
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: read out loud whatever you're reading? And you know, it
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: could be Brene Brown or a novel that I'm reading,
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: but she just she really wants to hear my voice,
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: I guess, and.
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  Speaker 2: Be engaged, unlike our big kids.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Unlike our big kids who don't want to hear anyone's voice.
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  Speaker 3: And so I started reading to her, and she she's
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  Speaker 3: actually the reason we went to the zoo and the
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: first place. She really you know, loves animals and was
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: desperate to get to the zoo, and so she was
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: very much aware that this book was about Steve. And
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  Speaker 3: so I read to her about Steve and Terry's honeymoon,
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: which was supposed to be in the beautiful, you know,
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: kind of western beaches of America, and she ends up
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: saying yes to a crocodile hunt instead, and so I
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  Speaker 3: was reading this experience.
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  Speaker 2: So she gives up the honeymoon so that she can
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: go hunt crocs with Steve.
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  Speaker 1: She gave up the honeymoon and he said, no, honeymoon,
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  Speaker 1: let's go get let's go catch a croc.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, that's exactly right.
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  Speaker 3: And what was so amazing and this whole experience is
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  Speaker 3: she's other than being at the zoo once where she
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: was in an enclosure with a crocodile and fed it
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: some meat. She actually has had no contact at this
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  Speaker 3: point with a crocodile. And they catch a crocodile that
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: they needed to relocate, and.
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  Speaker 2: So you read all this to Emily. I read all
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  Speaker 2: of this.
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  Speaker 3: To Emily, and in the process of catching it, they
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  Speaker 3: had to take it out of the trap, the netting
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  Speaker 3: trap that they've trapped it in to kind of keep
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  Speaker 3: it safe, get all of the netting that he's tangled
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: up in off him. And in order to do that
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: you've seen the videos, they literally on top of it.
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  Speaker 2: They jump on to the massive crop.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: So she's getting hands on training, like on the spot
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  Speaker 3: on her honeymoon, on her honeymoon, and he says, all right,
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: when I say you are going to jump on this
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  Speaker 3: crocodile's head, right.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Jump on the crocodile's head. He's holding the body. Obviously,
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: no No, he wasn't. Somebody else was.
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  Speaker 3: He's actually getting rid of all of the netting, like
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  Speaker 3: you know, lifting up its foot and pulling the netting
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  Speaker 3: off the foot and then you know, moving down the
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  Speaker 3: tip like it.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Was just awesome. Sorry, So you've read that to Emily.
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: I've read that to Emily and she's so enthralled. She just,
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: you know, like this is so exciting. And then that
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: led to mummy, can I watch some videos? And so,
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: you know, it's early morning and everybody's still asleep, and
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: I thought, yeah, we can spend a few minutes kind
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: of watching. So I looked up on YouTube to see
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: if I could find some things, and there was lots
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: of you know, big kind of documentary style, one hour videos,
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: so I was looking for something nice and small, and
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: so I found a little five minute YouTube and I thought,
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: let's have a look at this. And what I didn't
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: realize at that point was that it was actually kind
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: of had been created as a bit of a tribute
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: to step So it was like.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: A montage of his life, it was, and it was.
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: So beautifully done. It was so beautifully done. But obviously
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: at the end they touched on the fact that now
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  Speaker 3: Steve's gone. And Emily was aware that Steve had died,
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: and we had that conversation with her previously, but in
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: that moment it just hit her and her heart, I'm
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: going to cry. Her heart was so crushed to think
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: that this good person she sees, Steve Irwin, is such
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: a good man. He was fighting for the rights of
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: you know, and the safety and the well being of
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  Speaker 3: animals all around the world. And her heart just broke
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  Speaker 3: in that moment that he was gone, and she sobbed
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: like she sobbed, and she just said to me, Mummy,
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  Speaker 3: why why did Steve have to die? He was such
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  Speaker 3: a good man. Why did he get in the water
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: with those stingrays? Didn't he know they were dangerous? Why
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: didn't the doctors fix his heart? Couldn't they have given
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: him a new heart? How does that stinger? I think
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: it would be if somebody came and stabbed him in
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: the heart. The questions just kept rolling, and so as
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: the morning progressed, she would just have about after a
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: bout of just anguish as she kind of relived this space,
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: and so the morning kind of turned into a bit
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: of a Stevo and tribute and Lily started looking up
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: other youtubes, and she found when Robert went over to
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  Speaker 3: the Jimmy Fallon Show and they had this really cool
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: experience as he introduced Jimmy to a whole heap of
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: scary animals, and you know, that kind of got her
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: laughing a bit. And then she found True Blue sung
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: by John Williamson in the Crocoseum on the day of
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: their memorial memorial, and that got me going.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: I was gone, but as we.
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: Kind of, you know, as the morning weaved on, we
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: got on our bikes to ride to school, and all
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: of a sudden, it just hit her again and she
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: literally rode and saw.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: The whole lost kid.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: She just couldn't understand, and that actually led to you know,
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: he died just like my grandma, Nana Bunt, and she
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  Speaker 3: wanted to, you know, understand. Nana didn't even get to
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  Speaker 3: hold me for very long because Nana died pretty soon
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  Speaker 3: after she was born. She kind of hung around just
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: for Emily and just you know, so many questions and
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: not good answers. I didn't have anything great to tell her.
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: There was nothing that was going to fix her pain,
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: and so I guess, how do we deal with this
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  Speaker 3: with our kids? Because from time to time there are
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: going to be experiences in their life where they lose
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: someone or something that means so much to them. How
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: do we help them through that anguish?
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about that next. It's the Happy Families podcast.
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: US Screens Creating Tension at Home, Tweens, Teens and Screens
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: is a webinar to guide families to healthy, safe superscreen
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: solutions by today at happy families dot com dot au
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: slash shop.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Family's podcast where talking about grief. We've
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: had a couple of incidents where our children have grieved,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: one of them grieving over a fictional character and a
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: book that died unexpectedly that she really didn't want to lose,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: and another one grieving the loss of Steve Irwin, the
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Crocodile Hunter, And that lead into conversation and questions around
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: the loss of her great grandma and some of the
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: sadness and loss around that. So, how are you supposed
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: to talk to kids about grief? Where are you supposed
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: to go and what context? Like how much are you
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: supposed to tell them? I reckon there's a handful of
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: tips that I can share. I wish I'd been around too.
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: It would have been great if you were.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was my morning bike ride. It sounds like
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: I go for bike rides every morning or something. I
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: promise I am around to help with the kids. I
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: was actually there when she was upset, but we had
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: a kind of a complicated morning that morning.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: I reckon The first thing is you need.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: To be simple and clear and direct in your conversation
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: with your kids. I think that the best way to
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: deliver any kind of bad news is to just say it,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: say it gently, say it kindly, but just to say it.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: We need to keep it together ourselves. And then I
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: think that we want to have one of those I
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: call it the lion King moment. You know they been ya,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: you know, the liking when we help kids to understand
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: the whole circle of life thing that everyone and everything
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: gets old and eventually dies. What happens is they start
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: to see death as normal and natural.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: I think the tricky thing for Emily in this situation,
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: as Steve.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Wasn't old no, you're right, and this was.
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: Such an unknown this was such a surprise to everybody involved.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so in that situation, I think that the
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: best thing that you can actually do is well Sometimes
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: we get really caught up in giving kids information, and
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: in fact, even as I'm starting to give this information
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: to you, I'm caught up in how do we convey
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: the content? How do we help our children to understand
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: what happened and why? But sometimes that's not the best
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: thing to do. Sometimes we just need to provide the
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: emotional support that they need and let them work through
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: it themselves. And it might take them a minute or
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: ten minutes, or an hour or a day or a
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: week or a month. Sometimes we just need to be
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: there for them, so we give them a great big
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: hug and we say things like you're so sad, this
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: is the saddest news ever, and we just hold them
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: and let them cry. I think that it's also great
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: to memorialize, and so well, let's go and learn everything
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: we can. When we grieve, sometimes we try to avoid
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: anything that could increase that sense of grief, that sense
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: of loss, that sense of connection. We actually want to
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: sever the connection when we're grieving sometimes because the connection
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: is what hurts so much. And by severing the connection,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: we just get to say, Okay, well I loved that person,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: but now they're gone and I'm just going to move
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: on with my life. But my sense is that avoidance
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: just reinforces.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: The gaping hole.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Well, in anxiety research, we know that avoidance
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: actually reinforces anxiety. So if you're anxious about something and
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: you avoid it, that avoidance just reinforces the anxiety. But
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: in grief, avoidance doesn't help either. Avoidance actually blocks out
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: something that we need.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: To move towards.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: The more we can move towards those memories, the more
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: we can process them, we can make.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Meaning from them.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: And I think what's really going on here is we've
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: got a little girl who wants to make meaning. So
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: from my perspective, I think that bringing her in, bringing
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: her close, showing her more videos, helping her to celebrate
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: the extraordinary life of stever in this case, and probably
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: showing her some more pictures of her great grandma, and
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: talking about the wonderful lady that our Nan was. I
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: think that those are the kinds of things that are
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: going to be much more useful, much more helpful in
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: helping them to.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Process that grief.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: A lot of people have cultural or religious beliefs that
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: can provide them with support during times like this, and
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: I think that during grief, one of the most powerful
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: things we can do is lean on those cultural or
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: faith oriented beliefs and values and helped them to guide
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: us through those those difficult times. There's so much research
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: that shows that this is remarkable and powerful. So what'd
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: you do?
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: Well? We definitely had lots of cuddles and we had
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: a little cry together. And one of the videos that
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: we had watched had Steve telling his story. He was
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: in a darkened room and he was just the spotlight
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: on him and he talked about his vision and how
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: he had caught his parents' energy and drive for animal
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: conservation as a young kid, and he had been the
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: warrior and taken you know, kind of the baden off
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: dad and carried that flag throughout his life and that
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: his greatest hope was that.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: He would be.
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: Able to hand the batton on to his kids and
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: he would know that his life had meant something if
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: his kids would be able to do that and continue
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: his work. And that was such a beautiful tribute to
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: who he was and the life that he led, because
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: as we've seen with Bindi and Robert, that's exactly what
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: they have done. That he has left this legacy that
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: has you know, formed and molded them into these amazing
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: conservation warriors and they do so they do him proud.
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: And so as we talked about that, you know, one
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: of the things that I've loved about Emily is she
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: has such a desire to make sure that animals are safe.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: And one of the things lately is she wants to
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: pick up all the rubbish wherever we go. She wants
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: to pick up rubbish because she doesn't want the animals
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: to be hurt. And so we talked about how Steve's
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: legacy lives in all of us as we do the
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: things that he was so passionate about and strives so
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: hard to educ hate us in.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: And whether it's Steve Ewin or a relative, someone that
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: your child loves and knows that meaning making in that
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: legacy is just critical. I think the last thing that
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: I'd add is just that more than anything, our children
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: need to know that we're there for them. They need
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: to feel safe to cry or hit a pillow or
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: talk without any judgment. They actually need to be allowed
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: to be happy too, and to move on with their lives. Well,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: that was a great conversation. I'm really glad that we
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: had it. It's probably something that we don't talk about
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: nearly enough.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: I hope you enjoy the podcast. I hope that you've
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: got something out of this.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: If you did, please visit Apple Podcasts and leave us
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: a rating and a review. It's the reviews that help
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: people to find the podcast and have happier families, like
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: this five star review that came through from Starr E
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: three two one, who.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: Said, I've always enjoyed listening to Doctor Colson, but this
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: podcast has become my daily go to with Kylie on board.
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: Thank you both for your genuine and practical advice and
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: being your authentic selves. Every parent and expecting parents should
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: listen to your podcast like that.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: Thank you so very much for the rating and review.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Like I said, Apple Podcasts, the feedback helps other people
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: find the podcast. We really appreciate the work of Justin Rulan,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: who produces the podcast, and our executive.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Producer is Craig Bruce.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: If you'd like more information about how to make your
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: family happy or get through some tough spots, please have
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: a look at our Happy Families memberships. They are available
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: at happy families dot com dot au and for the
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: price of a cuppa once a week, you can make
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: your family.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: Happier family is getting bigger and bigger every day.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: You can also find more information at doctor Justin Colson's
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Happy Families on Facebook