Latest / All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting / 85. Fired at 8 months pregnant with Beth Wanner of Mother Cover

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85. Fired at 8 months pregnant with Beth Wanner of Mother Cover · All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting

0:00
Welcome back to the All Figured Out podcast.
0:02
I'm your host Andrea Barr. Today we are diving into a
0:06
conversation that so many working parents will relate to
0:10
navigating career uncertainty, dealing with parental leaves and
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the emotional toll of trying to balance all of it.
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So my guess is Beth Wanner. She knows the struggle first
0:23
hand and she has an absolutely wild story.
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As she says, and I quote her, this is insane.
0:29
It is an insane story. So after building a really
0:32
successful career as a marketing executive, Beth faced challenges
0:36
in fertility and job insecurity and suddenly being laid off
0:40
while finally figuring out she was pregnant.
0:43
I don't want to give too much of the story away because Beth does
0:45
such a great job at at describing what happened, but
0:49
when she finally became pregnant, she then went through
0:51
a roller coaster of challenges in finding and integrating into
0:57
a new organization while pregnant.
0:59
Her experience has really shone a light on their gaps in the
1:02
workforce for supporting parents and she has decided to do
1:06
something about it. So she is the founder and CEO of
1:09
Mother Cover, a game changing agency that provides interim and
1:13
fractional coverage for parental leave.
1:15
Just ensuring so that parents can step away from work without
1:18
fear of being replaced or like their teams are going to suffer.
1:22
And it also supports those who are looking for more fractional
1:26
style, flexible work, which is also incredible, and which
1:29
covers off of a lot of parents who are in the workforce who
1:33
just can't swing it to do the 9:00 to 5:00, Monday to Friday
1:36
thing. So it's really, really
1:37
incredible. In this episode, Beth shares her
1:39
deeply personal journey. She talks about the stigma
1:42
surrounding maternity leave and why it's important that we start
1:45
to rethink how we support working parents.
1:47
If you're ever worried about how your career fits in with your
1:50
family plans, this episode is for you to grab a coffee and
1:55
just settle in for an absolutely wild story.
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Thank you so much, Beth, for your vulnerability and for
2:02
sharing your experience and what you are doing about it now.
2:05
It's an incredible organization that Beth has started, so enjoy.
2:11
You're listening to the All Figured Out podcast.
2:13
I'm your host, Andrea Barr. I'm a career coach for parents,
2:18
mom of two, and a self-proclaimed expert at
2:21
winging it. After 10 years in the corporate
2:24
world, two major career pivots, and navigating life with kids,
2:27
I've learned one thing. No parent has it all figured
2:31
out, and that's OK. Here, we're all about growing
2:34
personally and professionally while keeping family time
2:37
sacred. You'll get practical tips,
2:39
career strategies and musings on life, plus guest experts to help
2:43
us fill in the gaps. So grab a coffee or hide in your
2:47
car for some time. We're about to figure out this
2:49
work life and parenting stuff out together that water.
2:55
Thank you so much for joining me on the All Figured Out podcast.
2:58
I'm so pumped to have you here. I'm so pumped to be here.
3:01
Thank you for having me. Oh my goodness.
3:03
OK. Ever since we connected through
3:06
our friend Marty sat Marty tomorrow they shout out to
3:11
Marty. He put us in touch and said you
3:13
guys really need to chat. And I was like, oh, that's nice,
3:14
like any friend of Marty's friend of mine.
3:16
But then we met and I was like, Oh my gosh, this was like the
3:19
best cold in like the best meat cute best like what's, what's
3:24
the word blind date? Yeah, yeah.
3:28
Now we have to tell Marty that we're better friends and he's.
3:31
Yeah. Well, it's from those situations
3:33
where people put you in touch and you're like, yeah, yeah,
3:35
like that was really nice. And like we kind of did the same
3:37
thing or like we're in the same sphere.
3:39
But I'm like, man, this is, this is great.
3:41
And anyways, we won't keep people in the dark as to why
3:44
we're going to tell your story and people will be like, oh,
3:46
damn, yes. What a great, what a great
3:49
pairing. What a great connection.
3:50
So Beth, you have, you got a story, You've got quite a story.
3:57
I've got a roller coaster, yeah. You caught a roller coaster and
4:00
we're coming at this. So I usually in the back end, I
4:03
categorize my podcast episodes as either career story.
4:05
So people who are say like still, you know, gainfully
4:08
employed or whatever and just doing their thing.
4:09
They're really good at what they do and they just have an
4:12
interesting story to tell. Or someone who's a guest expert
4:15
who can come and like fill in the gaps for us and teach us,
4:17
you know, a thing or two. Whatever You fall under that
4:19
category of, I would say both, which is always fun.
4:22
Or you've got a wild story, a really cool story of becoming a
4:26
mother, of going through an experience that was not
4:31
favorable, Yeah, to say the least.
4:36
And how that inspired you to do the work that you're doing now.
4:39
And now as an expert in advocate and a really interesting space
4:43
of maternity leave, parental leave, leaves in general and
4:48
supporting mothers and work. So I'm man, I'm so excited for
4:52
this. So how do we even begin?
4:55
Where would you like to start? Do you want to talk about where
4:57
you were born? What you like to eat when you
5:00
grew up. Oh, man, does anyone want to
5:03
like, just does that what people want?
5:05
Well, yeah. Nachos, Nachos.
5:09
OK. OK, so the main source of
5:11
sustenance. So what I want to know is what
5:16
was the journey to going from being a really high, high
5:20
achieving, successful woman in business person in business to
5:25
deciding that you wanted to, you know, start a family and all of
5:28
that. So where were you in your life
5:29
at that time when you were starting to think about maybe
5:32
having a family? I think it was always in the
5:37
back of my mind. I, I am somebody who has always
5:40
been ambitious and career driven and I, it was always kind of a
5:46
source of stress of like, where is this going to fit into my
5:49
life? Do I want to become a mother?
5:51
I, I, I like to kind of preface that I wasn't somebody who
5:55
always knew for sure that I wanted to be a mother in that
5:58
kind of also added to my anxiety of like, where, where does this
6:01
fit into my life? And does it and that pressure of
6:03
like that is what what we're supposed to kind of do next.
6:06
But yeah, I, I was fortunate to be in positions where my career
6:13
kept escalating, which was was great, but that always kind of
6:18
pushed out that decision even further because I was like,
6:21
well, now I just became a director and now I just became a
6:24
VP. And now I'm, I'm leading this
6:26
team like it's not the right time.
6:28
And I worked in in tech, so a lot can happen in tech and move
6:34
so quickly. So the thought of taking leave,
6:36
what you're just like, I don't know what I would possibly come
6:40
back to and I need to stay connected and, and just kind of
6:43
navigating how that would work. But eventually, kind of after
6:48
going through a few promotions and again, being very fortunate
6:51
and loving my career, we eventually got to the position.
6:56
We're like, yeah, we we want to do this.
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And there's never going to be a great time, but I really just
7:02
wanted to know who this little combination of myself and my
7:05
husband, us and my husband is amazing.
7:07
And I, I wanted to see him as as a father.
7:10
So yeah, well, we made that, made that leap.
7:14
And we're like, we're going to do it.
7:15
There's no great timing, but then it it wasn't happening for
7:20
us. So we went through a, a fairly
7:24
painful journey of, of infertility and everything that
7:28
comes along with that. But when that first started, I
7:35
was at a company that I was out for, for quite a long time, but
7:38
I knew that I wanted next, I was a VP, I wanted to go on to be
7:43
CMO. I was like, I, I need to, I need
7:45
to keep growing my career. At the same time, I don't know
7:47
when this family thing is going to happen.
7:49
I can't put that part, part of my life on pause.
7:52
So I took a new opportunity and then another one.
7:56
Well, he's still going through these infertility journeys.
7:59
And I was like, I can't, I don't have the same relationships that
8:01
I had at at the company that I was at for a long time.
8:04
I don't want to put on them that this is what I'm going through.
8:07
So I was hiding that part and wanting to make sure that I was
8:11
still performing at the top of my game.
8:14
So that just kind of added to to the anxiety with that as well
8:19
too. And, and just the fear, like not
8:21
that anybody gave me the impression that they would hold
8:24
it against me, but you just kind of know it as a woman.
8:27
That's that that's too big of a risk to share with people that
8:29
your family planning, especially that time we were coming out of
8:35
Colwood, but kind of into the next wave of tech layoffs and
8:39
things like that. So I was like, I, I don't want
8:41
to put a target on my back, even if I'm performing well, Saying
8:45
that you're going to start a family in tech world is just,
8:48
it's just too big of a risk. So.
8:50
And I have to ask, would you change that, knowing what you
8:53
know now, having gone through so much?
8:57
Would you tell yourself advice that's different to what you
9:00
did? I probably would cause like
9:04
there was so little that I can control in the world of
9:08
infertility and then in the world of your career.
9:11
Um, so being able to take one part of stress, that piece of
9:18
stress off my plate or off my mind because I can't control
9:22
what somebody's going to do with that information.
9:24
But even though I was never kind of lying about what I was doing,
9:28
I was, I would say like I was answering slack messages from a
9:32
procedure table while I'm preparing for, for IVF or like
9:36
I'm taking time off for a medical procedure, but I can't
9:40
say what it is. And that just didn't make me
9:42
feel good and then added to my stress.
9:46
But being able to be open, transparent about that and take
9:48
the time that I need would have been one less thing.
9:51
And then whatever they do with it, they do with it, like I
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said, so. Yeah, great point.
9:56
You can't control everything and you can't control how people
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feel. Yeah.
10:01
And yeah, it's just unfortunately the the world
10:03
we're living in and not to get too quick, maybe to the to the
10:08
first plot twist is I went through IVF.
10:11
This was my second transfer. My first one failed.
10:15
That was devastating. Went right back to work.
10:18
You feel like a a robot of like you just got to bury that down
10:21
and hop on the next call even though you've just been
10:24
devastated. But then went through my next
10:26
transfer and that one was successful and found out that I
10:30
was pregnant on a Sunday. Was laid off on a Tuesday.
10:33
And so like that, that wasn't, that wasn't about me being
10:41
pregnant, but it was just the nature of, of the timing.
10:44
And again, where I was just like, I went through all that
10:47
stress of trying to protect what I was going through personally
10:49
and still got laid off and still performed well and still got
10:52
laid off. So I was like, I went through
10:54
all of that for and that's where I like allude to, like you can't
10:57
control it anyway. You're not in control when you
10:59
work for somebody else. No, and this is my second time
11:02
hearing the story and still I'm like insane.
11:06
It's an insane, unfair, weird, maybe for two days, like it's so
11:14
you know, everything wrapped up in one, like that's just, you
11:16
know, I'm like full body goosebumps.
11:18
I'm like, what are the freaking chances you went through hell to
11:21
conceive, conceive, laid off. So what was your what was that
11:26
moment? What was that layoff moment like
11:28
for you? Like what exactly was going
11:29
through your mind? Your body?
11:31
When I kind of clued in that this was likely to happen, I
11:35
remember saying to my husband before we even got our test
11:38
results back saying would you rather that this transfer didn't
11:45
work and I have a job or that it worked and I don't and he.
11:51
Was not a question. Casual dinner.
11:54
Chat when I like I am the breadwinner of of our family
11:58
like it's it it's a huge implication to lose my.
12:01
Job. But if you have this, why I love
12:05
them without hesitation, lose your job.
12:08
Like, we'll figure it out. And yeah, So yeah, holy, that's
12:13
what happened. And yeah, it was the most
12:15
wildest time because I remember seeing those results.
12:19
And just like crumbling to be like this is this is amazing.
12:23
So like dealing with both those feelings at the same time, I'm
12:27
almost thankful for it because if I had just been laid off and
12:29
my job was my identity and that would have been like a huge
12:37
yeah. It it was hard either way.
12:38
Like, I remember feeling embarrassed about it of like,
12:40
I've got a post on LinkedIn that I've been laid off and I need to
12:42
look for another job. And but, yeah, at least I had
12:47
kind of this little secret where I was just like, but something
12:50
amazing is happening, too, yes. So what happened next?
12:54
So you get laid off? Was it like a walkout situation?
12:57
So by the Wednesday you are pregnant and literally don't
13:01
have a job? Did you get noticed?
13:03
Like what happened there? Wednesday, no job so.
13:07
Holy shit. We're we're done, Yeah.
13:09
And I can't remember how quickly it was, but I remember just
13:13
feeling like, OK, I've got a ticking clock.
13:17
I cause lots of people were like, just take the time to like
13:19
process it and like you don't have to start networking and
13:22
doing all the things right away. But like, obviously I wasn't
13:25
sharing with people that I was pregnant, but I was like, yeah,
13:27
I do have to do this right away. So I remember posting right away
13:32
and I have a great network. Lots of people reached out and I
13:35
started doing interviews and all that right away.
13:40
But again, it was the nature of the time in the industry.
13:43
So there was a lot of layoffs and even a lot of those
13:46
introductions did a few different interviews.
13:49
Those kind of led to dead ends, but then eventually, so I was
13:55
laid off in February or no for January and I started
14:03
interviewing with the new company in March and was offered
14:08
a job with them and started at the end of April.
14:14
So by then math, I believe I'm four months pregnant.
14:19
And yeah, interviewing while you're pregnant and especially
14:22
in the first semester for anybody who's gone through it,
14:24
like, holy shit. Like I well, I have new respect
14:28
for it. Every woman who who's working
14:30
during that time, like I just I needed to lie down.
14:33
I like oh, I wanted to say like the people that were
14:36
interviewing me. I'm like you didn't Get Me Out
14:37
my best, but like I still feel like I put through some heroic
14:42
efforts there but and nausea, but.
14:45
Yeah, women are. Flew to some interviews and I
14:48
was like oh please don't look pregnant but.
14:50
Oh my gosh, incredible. She landed the job and you're in
14:55
marketing in the tech world. I assume it was a pretty big
14:59
role that you landed at this point.
15:01
It was another VP of marketing role and I had, I know people
15:07
have really strong feelings about this, but I didn't
15:09
disclose that I was pregnant during the interview process.
15:14
That was the advice I got. Regardless of size of the
15:17
company, regardless of the role, you're never going to know why
15:21
somebody decided not to move you forward in an interview process.
15:26
And unfortunately, again, that's just the world that we live in.
15:31
So I waited until I had the job offer and then disclosed that I
15:37
was pregnant. And I was because I've been an
15:42
executive. I've experienced, unfortunately,
15:45
what gets said after someone discloses that they're pregnant.
15:49
Even when people have the best of intentions, it's usually
15:53
like, oh shit, like now we have to deal with this?
15:56
Like, how are we going to deal with this?
15:57
And like, yeah, just that's usually the nicest that it goes.
16:03
So I was expecting a little bit like just disappointment
16:09
obviously, and maybe some frustration.
16:12
Uh, I got the worst of it and I wasn't braced for that.
16:20
Yeah. The first question was when did
16:22
you find out? Ohhhhhh no it wasn't.
16:27
Yeah, yeah. They asked when did you find?
16:30
Out. When did you find out?
16:33
Like asking. Of your data business.
16:36
Yeah, It's like that's a medical question, actually.
16:38
Like what if I said I just found out, but I am four months
16:40
pregnant? You're also going to judge that
16:42
answer. But yeah, I actually, I
16:45
disclosed. I was like, I went through IVF.
16:47
This is my whole thing. This is when this happened, but
16:51
like, I hope that that this is just a blip in our role like
16:55
this as we talked about this being a, a long term
17:00
relationship and yeah, everything that we went through
17:04
in in the interview process. So it's like this.
17:08
My, my goal is to show you that this is still the best higher
17:10
decision that that you've ever, ever made.
17:13
But the next question was, why did you choose us?
17:18
Yeah, and it just got got worse from there.
17:22
The next question was why did you choose us?
17:25
Yeah, basically, knowing what you know about the company, what
17:28
we need, why would you choose us?
17:30
And you knew that you were pregnant.
17:32
Wow, like why did you decide to sue her?
17:35
Us is basically what they were implying yeah.
17:38
Why did you decide this person? Why did you decide to burden us
17:41
with this with your pregnancy that you've been trying for for
17:45
ages? That's going to bring a human
17:46
into the OK getting I'm getting fired up knowing.
17:49
How much we needed this role, knowing what we needed to
17:51
accomplish. Why would you do this?
17:55
How did you answer that? OHS I, I think that's probably
18:01
where I went into like my goal is to show you that this is the
18:06
best hire that you're you're gonna make.
18:08
Like this isn't going to be a I remember saying I, I'm not gonna
18:12
make it a burden on you like I were.
18:14
I am going to do the work that to set you up for in a really
18:19
great position by the time that I leave.
18:22
I probably didn't go into these plans, but my plan all along was
18:26
that like I was going to, I've obviously never had been
18:29
pregnant before. I hadn't had a child yet, but I
18:32
was like, I, I really thought that I had joined an amazing
18:36
organization from, from the interviewer and really thought
18:39
that this of all cultures was going to be a culture that
18:42
supported me and was going to be worth sacrificing time with my
18:46
child. And that I was going to be
18:48
available to them and support through the early days of my
18:51
leave and then likely come back thoroughly.
18:53
But then with the initial reaction, I was like, OK, I
18:57
can't promise anything because this isn't what I thought it
19:00
was. So I remember them asking, well,
19:02
then how long are you going to take?
19:04
And I was like, well, I'd like to take 12 months.
19:06
And the response is, well, that's your legal right.
19:09
Oh. My.
19:11
Gosh. Yeah.
19:13
And then? They just kept digging.
19:15
They were digging and digging and they were like, what's the
19:18
worst question we could ask next?
19:19
And then they asked it. Yeah.
19:22
And then going into this person, put their blood, sweat and tears
19:28
into the company. And by saying that I was like,
19:31
are you insinuating that I'm ruining your company
19:33
essentially? But it just was not great.
19:38
We ended up just ending the call.
19:41
They said that they'll take that the weekend to kind of digest
19:44
and then we'll we'll talk again on Monday.
19:47
Wow, how we left that So so to recap, you get the paperwork to
19:55
get like super granular. So you get the paperwork and
19:58
that's when so before signing. You did?
20:00
No, I did sign I. Signed, signed.
20:01
OK, yeah, got the paperwork signed it disclosed your
20:04
pregnant like yay, I'm part of the team now.
20:06
I can tell you this very big information that is still scary.
20:10
And I'm sure like whoa, first time pregnant and they're like,
20:13
we're going to digest this. So you come back to work Monday.
20:16
What happens then? Like how do you or are you come
20:18
back? You hadn't started work yet.
20:21
I hadn't started work yet, so I think I had maybe about another
20:27
2 weeks before I was formally supposed to start.
20:30
But yeah, we had set up it as person reached out on Sunday
20:38
through text and said that as promised, they had thought more
20:42
about it. Can we chat on on Monday?
20:46
And I said absolutely. They sent me a Zoom invite for a
20:50
15 minute talk. So yeah, then I replied back.
20:54
I was like, are you rescinding the offer?
20:59
Like this isn't a very long time to talk about something really
21:02
important. And they were like, that's not
21:06
the intent of the call as promised.
21:09
I just want to share kind of my reaction.
21:12
Oh, and give you an update about your reference checks.
21:17
And I was like, oh, that's interesting because like I've
21:19
already signed the offer and you've already got my
21:20
references, but I wonder what could have changed over the
21:24
weekend about my, my references, but.
21:26
What? Oh my gosh, that keep going.
21:29
So Monday comes. So minute call yeah the 15
21:34
minute call probably ends up being an hour and 15 minute call
21:37
as I assumed it would be it the tone had changed to more so not
21:42
be an issue that I am pregnant, but how I told them that I was
21:50
pregnant. I had sent a text and said I
21:52
just need to run something by you.
21:54
My reason for why I did where did it that way is that I didn't
21:59
want to be like, hey, I've got a problem that I need to tell you
22:03
or there's something bad or making them worried that I was
22:08
backing out or not going to take the job.
22:10
So probably could have worded that better, but I just didn't
22:13
want to freak them out. But the feedback was that I that
22:19
I was trying to essentially catch them off guard by not
22:23
setting up what should have been a serious call and meeting.
22:28
So that was kind of the distal feedback and then just kind of
22:31
like the broken relationships of trust that I should have shared
22:35
it during the interview process and that it really changes the
22:41
90 day plan that I put forward. But it's like it actually
22:43
doesn't. I am still here for the 90 days
22:46
like that. What I promised is what I'm
22:48
going to execute on top of obviously that there needs to be
22:51
a contingency plan that I build for for my leave sort of thing.
22:56
So yeah, the tone kind of changes a little bit on my side.
23:05
I need the job. I, I am trying to do whatever I
23:09
can to smooth it over even though I'm dying inside where
23:12
it's just like, I have really misjudged this, but it's the bed
23:17
I made and I got to lay in it and I got to figure out a way to
23:19
make this work. There's no way like for when it
23:24
like the length of time that it takes to go through executive
23:28
hires. It's like if I say back out of
23:31
this and say no and try to find a job again there, there's
23:34
probably no chance that I'm going to find a job.
23:38
Wow. Right.
23:39
Because you're like, we're talking months here, we're
23:41
talking more flights, we're talking big conversations, big
23:45
budgets that are being, you know, thrown around and
23:47
opportunities that are even available.
23:49
I always say that like stars kind of have to align for you
23:51
to, you know, a person to be job searching while the dream
23:54
company is also looking for that role.
23:56
Like that's a huge thing as well.
23:58
So that's that's so fair. And you said you're the
24:01
breadwinner. I can only imagine that there
24:03
was some, you know, financial, you have a baby coming too, like
24:08
those. Those are a lot of factors.
24:10
Well and also like I, I was worried about my career.
24:13
So if if I am laid off in in January and I want to take time
24:19
off with my child, I'm looking at a two year career gap then.
24:25
And I was like, that's like, I'm worried about what a six or a 12
24:28
month career gap is going to look like, let alone that is
24:31
like, I don't know how to come back from that like that.
24:33
Just so the financial side that if there's future children in
24:40
our future, like everything like that was spiraling of like not
24:43
having a job right now can impact the rest of the rest of
24:47
our lives and family planning. So it was huge.
24:50
Huge, huge. How did you reconcile and move
24:53
forward? So you have a discussion like
24:54
this on that Monday, and I assume you continued discussing
25:00
like, how did you, Oh my gosh, I'm just trying to think of the
25:04
pill you're trying to swallow in this moment too.
25:07
How did you move forward? Um, it was awkward.
25:12
I'm just saying it like to you. So like the well, I don't know,
25:17
it doesn't. That word doesn't seem to do it
25:19
justice. But yeah, I think they
25:22
recognized they were stuck and I was stuck, and we continued
25:28
forward. So I started in the role.
25:32
I felt like I could always feel this animosity.
25:36
Obviously, I tried to kind of talk to others on the leadership
25:41
team of like, I still feel that like I'm never going to be
25:45
accepted here, but like how do I move forward?
25:48
How do I start building relationships, and particularly
25:52
with the founder of this company?
26:00
Yeah. And just kind of kept going
26:02
through it, kept kind of feeling like the things that I was
26:05
putting forward, the things that I was trying to do, like one day
26:08
they'd be good, the next day they were not.
26:12
And go to post kind of moving discussions kind of changing.
26:16
Um, yeah. So as yeah, just going through
26:22
trying to do my best, trying to put forward the strategies that
26:26
we wanted in place, working towards like what does this
26:29
transition period look like? And I should have seen the red
26:33
flags that like this person was never really talking to me about
26:36
it. Like I there was somebody else
26:38
that on the leadership team that kind of handled a little bit of
26:41
the HR stuff. So I would talk with them about
26:44
it, but they, yeah, there was just kind of red flags around.
26:48
There doesn't seem to be a lot of discussion around this.
26:52
It felt like the elephant in the room, like even being like, can
26:55
I share this with like the rest of the the team?
26:58
I was like this could if we're looking to kind of move forward
27:01
and we could make this actually into really good story of like
27:04
use it for future recruitment of like you've got your female
27:08
executive that you hired while she was pregnant and here's how
27:11
you supported her through her leave and like all those sort of
27:13
things. So they did a 45 day performance
27:18
review which I've never experienced before.
27:23
Never heard that before. OK.
27:25
Yeah, a 47 day performance review, the standard 47 day
27:29
performance. Review.
27:29
Yeah, yeah. But I got a, a document saying
27:32
that I was not meeting the expectations of the role.
27:34
And I was just like, oh shit, they're putting the groundwork
27:38
together to fire me as soon as I get back from leave.
27:43
So had the performance review discussion.
27:45
I was like, I'm very confused about some of this.
27:47
It's like this data is not from this.
27:48
This data is from here. I don't like, and we're actually
27:52
tracking to hit these goals at this percentage for goals that
27:56
we had at the company had historically never even tracked
27:59
before that we kind of aligned on of like we're putting a line
28:01
in the sand. We're we're going to start
28:02
building off of this. So it's like this is actually
28:05
quite surprising. Anyways, that happens in.
28:12
So I was hired in April. This happens in towards the end
28:15
of June. The company had we have holidays
28:21
in there for for Canada Day and the 4th of July.
28:26
I come back on the first week in July and I've gotten news that I
28:36
have placenta previa, uh, which people can Google that if
28:42
that's, Oh, my daughter, Yeah, yeah.
28:45
Unite, unite with those placentas.
28:47
Low lying. Yeah, those pesky placentas that
28:51
try to kill us. Yeah, so my, my doctor had
28:55
advised that my placenta was blocking and that I was going to
29:00
have to have a C-section because if I risked going into labour, I
29:05
risked my placenta rupturing and you bleed out and die.
29:10
And because my was also in just a very risky spot, it was now
29:15
threatening my baby too. So she was like, we need to
29:18
schedule your C-section and we need to move it up.
29:21
You're going to have to have a C-section at 36 weeks, which was
29:26
three to four weeks earlier than what I was hoping my, my last
29:31
day was going to be. So I share that news.
29:34
I'm saying that I'm unfortunately going to like,
29:37
this is now my, my due date is, is set in stone.
29:39
I'm going to have to have the C-section for medical reasons.
29:42
I'm going to have to leave earlier.
29:45
Let's bump up these these plans and figure out kind of what
29:47
we're doing. I off again for for a family
29:52
holiday or for a family wedding and then I get back that Monday
29:59
and and pulled into a zoom call to tell me that I am terminated
30:05
from my role. That I failed to improve from
30:09
the performance discussion that had happened 5 working days
30:13
earlier. Three working days since telling
30:17
them about my leave needing to happen sooner.
30:23
Ah. I can't even imagine.
30:28
I can't imagine what you were going through at that moment.
30:30
Previa is very scary. Coming out of it you're like OK,
30:34
like it's, it's fine. But in the moment it's not fine.
30:37
Like it's very scary. It's a very scary thing to hear
30:40
about and to hear the consequences of early labour
30:44
etcetera. Well, just what we've been
30:46
through too, where I was just like I really thought like the
30:49
universe does not want me to have this baby of like I
30:52
couldn't get pregnant in the 1st place.
30:55
Going through IVF then getting laid off then going through this
30:59
with the job is like stress is trying to get to me and then
31:03
getting placenta previa where I should like I ended up.
31:07
Me and my husband went to a lawyer to get our wills made
31:11
before going in for my C-section because I just felt like the
31:16
universe is not going to let this happen.
31:18
Like either I'm not going to make it.
31:20
She's not going to make it. Something I was like, we need
31:22
to, I was like, I need to make sure that like you're going to
31:25
be OK. Oh my God.
31:26
So like, that's everything that's going through through my
31:28
mind have like, yeah. But if I can get a message out
31:33
to employers of like, it is not just losing your job, like when
31:37
you lose your job when you're you're pregnant or on maternity
31:40
leave or recently returned from maternity leave, like these,
31:43
there's real life things that are happening here.
31:46
I thought we were going to lose our house.
31:48
Like our mortgage was up for renewal and then mortgage rates
31:51
have gone up. Like, and again, being that
31:53
prime breadwinner, it's just like, what's going to happen to
31:56
all these things? I survive and we lose our house.
31:59
Oh my goodness, Beth, this isn't it's just I didn't know that
32:03
these details and I'm just so shocked and I'm so sorry that
32:06
you've experienced this. I feel like as an interfere, I'm
32:08
supposed to be more like neutral, but I don't care.
32:10
I wear my heart on my sleeve. It's like that's so out of
32:13
control. Can I ask, like you're delivered
32:16
the message, what were the words?
32:18
Do you remember the words that you said back to them?
32:21
Oh yeah, I said. I can't remember in which order
32:25
I said, but I know I only said two things.
32:27
I said, this is insane. And I said this was
32:32
unbelievable. And so I was like, I don't know
32:36
which one was first, but I was just like, you know, And then I
32:38
think, yeah, they walked me through the details and anything
32:43
else you want to say. And I was just like, I've got
32:45
nothing to say like. And that was it.
32:47
And my husband, because I work from home, he could hear it all
32:51
and came in, gave me a hug and like I don't even think I cried
32:55
because I was just in shock. I was just like this.
32:58
I can't believe this is our life right now.
33:01
That's yeah, I thought they're they're going to do it when I
33:04
get back, but I never imagined they would do it right before.
33:09
So you're. So I was pregnant at this point.
33:12
88, pregnant at that point. So yeah, I think I was four or
33:17
five weeks away from my scheduled C-section, so no
33:23
chance of getting another job at that point.
33:27
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so and EI, is that a thing
33:31
at this point? I'm getting so granular.
33:32
But like these are the little things that like if if someone's
33:34
listening and this is adjacent to what you're experiencing,
33:37
it's like how, what is the next step?
33:39
Like are you, do you call the lawyer next EI, Like what
33:43
happens next after this? Like what are the implications?
33:46
Lawyer was next call for sure. Good.
33:49
Yeah. Yeah.
33:50
Hmm. OK.
33:51
Lawyers lawyered up and then did they try it?
33:54
This is another funny, very granular question.
33:56
But did they try to turn? It sounds like they were
33:58
terminate, terminating you with cause.
34:01
Not was caused they were terminating me because I was
34:04
four days shy of my probation period ending so overall
34:10
probation period, but they cited in that performance.
34:13
OK. As long as they're hey,
34:16
performance, yeah, yeah, OK, the probation.
34:18
Which is like great, I'm very data-driven person.
34:21
Let's go toe to toe on my performance.
34:25
Question for you, just as like if you were talking to a friend
34:28
again, knowing what you know and being in the space that you're
34:30
in now. I've, I've worked with people, I
34:33
have heard it all, of course, like there's no one way.
34:36
I believe there's no one way to do it.
34:37
Whether you tell people in the interview process, if it's
34:40
somebody you know, whether you don't tell them, like I really
34:41
think that there's a lot of different scenarios and you have
34:44
to kind of do what's right for you, right?
34:45
Like depending on the situation, so there's people that I know
34:51
who will wait till after the probationary period for
34:55
additional security. Like what do you, what are your
34:57
thoughts? And I get, I know every
34:58
situation is different. What are your thoughts on on
35:00
that? I know that you couldn't have
35:02
that would be a very long time for you to wait.
35:05
But what do you think about like, just knowing what you know
35:07
now about waiting? I think you got it.
35:12
I think that that's a sad world that we live in.
35:14
And I know there again, there are others that will feel
35:17
different. I think what was said to me was
35:21
like, well, wouldn't you have wanted to know?
35:22
Like, wouldn't you have wanted to know?
35:24
Like that was their reaction and you could go find somewhere with
35:27
a better culture. Sure, in a, in a fairy tale
35:33
world, but again, I wouldn't have any way of knowing that.
35:36
Like people aren't dumb. They don't say to you directly
35:39
like, oh, you're pregnant. Sorry.
35:40
We're going to move forward with other candidates.
35:43
There's no way for me to know that.
35:45
There's no way to prove it. And like I said, I am under the
35:48
gun at that point. Like I can't take that risk.
35:51
I have. I'm looking out for my family
35:54
and I did have the best of intentions.
35:55
Like I really thought like I'm going to prove to them that I'm
35:59
really in this with them. Like this is going to be a great
36:01
hire and then this is going to be a great story for them.
36:04
And like, yes, they might be upset initially, but like, I
36:08
guess that's the where you're like, I know myself, they don't
36:10
know me yet, but like, they're going to get the best out of
36:15
this. And I'm going to be so loyal and
36:17
so dedicated because they gave me that lifeline when I I needed
36:21
it. And, and I was really excited
36:23
about the role. I was really excited about the
36:25
company. I was like, I'm going to help
36:26
build this and this is what I'm going to do.
36:27
And this is my next move. And yeah, it wasn't just about
36:31
like I need to get a paycheck with anything for for anyone.
36:35
I was excited. Yeah.
36:36
And I just, I keep thinking about the fact that you would
36:38
have been going in there like had this all worked out, had
36:41
they played their cards better, they would have, had you come
36:44
in, set them up for a year. However, they would have been
36:47
set up with a marketer who would have like set the team up, set
36:50
the marketing plan, like put everything in motion like a good
36:52
leader would do. There's so many reasons why I
36:55
feel like it could have been a, to your point, a great story is
36:58
the great marketer you are. You're thinking of the story
36:59
here, and what a great story could have been.
37:02
Holy smokes. So then what happens next?
37:05
But I'm like on the edge of my seat here.
37:07
So you have your C-section in four weeks time.
37:10
You're speaking with lawyers, like how do you even how do you,
37:13
how are you mentally dealing with these next couple of weeks
37:16
about to bring a human into the world, but dealing with like
37:19
real shit? Adrenaline, I think like I was
37:23
just like, this is so wrong. And you, I think you, you're
37:31
underestimated what I care about.
37:33
And I really care about protecting women, protecting
37:40
parents and protecting your career.
37:44
So it's like this is a principle thing for me now.
37:47
So if you think this is just about me personally and that I
37:51
will go away because I'm about to have this baby and I can't
37:57
focus on anything else, I was like, well now I have no job and
38:01
I've got time, so let's fight. Yes, girl, yes, they messed with
38:06
the wrong woman. That's for.
38:07
Sure, yeah. And to the extent that you're
38:10
willing to share, what has the outcome been so far in the in
38:16
that situation, you know, what is what happened?
38:21
How did it resolve, if at all? God, I can't even imagine.
38:25
Yeah. Yeah, there's not, not too much
38:28
that I can go into, but it is an ongoing human rights process.
38:36
So I think we're 8, my daughter's 17 months at the time
38:41
of this recording. So add on a month to that or a
38:46
year and a half in, we could be years more down the road, but a
38:53
minute's good. Thank you, You know what I have
38:56
to say that I think I told you this will be for initially met
38:58
and I feel like I maybe I don't know how eloquently I said it,
39:01
but I feel like I had some sort of like thanks that I tried to
39:04
share an appreciation for you doing this, because I feel like
39:07
I'm getting a bit emotional, but I've had people extremely close
39:12
to me have situations where they're should they could have
39:16
gone the human rights route, but to protect their own peace.
39:20
It just you know, it's and that's also another decision is
39:22
like, are you are you willing to fight?
39:24
Are you able to fight with the capacity to fight?
39:27
And someone extremely close to me just did not.
39:30
We just needed the chapter to close.
39:33
But and there's been a number of clients who I've worked with who
39:35
have had that same situation with her.
39:37
Like man, I want to be that person.
39:38
I want to be the person who is like, you've messed with the
39:41
wrong woman, you've messed with the wrong mom, you've messed
39:45
wrong person. And like go to bat and pay the
39:49
legal fees. Like there's a lot of out of
39:50
pocket expenses. I can only imagine if that's
39:53
kind of the situation you're in. So I would like to thank you on
39:57
behalf of all of us, anybody who doesn't have the capacity and
40:04
ability to fight because. It's just there's so many
40:09
situations where people don't have the capacity or the means
40:13
to fight, and This is why it continues to happen.
40:16
Yeah, but there's no shame on those people that can't do it
40:20
because there's so many factors at play, right?
40:24
Much like that is what bad actors are are are banking on,
40:31
like they know that like you're in the most vulnerable position
40:35
of your life, you are about to bring in a human being.
40:39
Your income is about to go down to 0.
40:43
You're not in a position to like that isn't That is the most
40:47
understandable position of most women to be like, I can't take
40:50
this on right now. And they know that I feel like I
40:56
very fortunate to be in the privileged position that I've
40:59
been in to be able to fight to to have again, shout out to my
41:05
husband of like him stepping in and he was like, wow, girl, take
41:09
on extra contracts. I'll do what I need to do for us
41:12
to be able to buy ourselves the time, but it's also the the
41:15
wherewithal to deal with like biting something for for years.
41:20
Again, most people will give up just because of the time that it
41:23
takes and that you want to move on with your, your life.
41:28
And even speaking to, um, the Human Rights Commission, they
41:35
were like, well, you've already done more even by filing because
41:38
most women won't even file, let alone see it through to a trial.
41:42
And I was like, that's actually incredibly sad that that's the
41:46
bar like, God, yeah. And it's like that's what's
41:49
flawed with our our system that like, and that what when I
41:55
obviously first experienced this, I thought like, I've
41:58
experienced the extreme. I I wasn't prepared for this.
42:02
I was prepared for when all my fears throughout how like my
42:06
starting a family would affect my career.
42:09
I really thought unconscious bias was the thing that I had to
42:13
worry about the most. I thought most people are
42:16
genuinely good. I still believe most people are
42:17
genuinely good. Yeah.
42:19
But that like it, it was just going to be kind of the natural
42:23
fear that people have of like, well, how do I continue when
42:25
like I do need somebody in that role?
42:27
And like there are legitimate logistical concerns for
42:30
companies of like wanting to be supportive, but like you've got
42:33
goals and, and things that you need to, to meet.
42:35
And yeah, anyways, I I wasn't prepared for the blatant
42:43
discrimination. And then when I shared my story
42:46
for the first time on LinkedIn, when I heard from hundreds of
42:49
other women and even speaking to various lawyers when they were
42:53
like, Oh, yeah, I've got cases of hundreds of women.
42:55
And I was just like, that. That was more motivation where I
43:00
was like, I need to be able to speak about this, to warn the
43:04
others, but also just to educate around this stuff.
43:06
Like, I didn't know what I didn't know.
43:08
And there's so many. Like, being able to tell that
43:10
story is also hugely therapeutic for me.
43:13
Like if I had to bury this down and never talk about it again,
43:17
it would eat at me for the rest of my life.
43:20
And I can think about how many women are sitting with that
43:23
right now because they've signed severance agreements or NDA's
43:28
and they have the exact same story and they're listening to
43:30
this or not the exact same story.
43:31
But even think like just that, there's that under lying theme
43:36
that they're like, yes, I've experienced something like that
43:38
and I wasn't able to talk about it.
43:41
Oh my gosh, Beth, it's just unbelievable.
43:44
And what you bring up around the the severance agreement, like I
43:47
know actually many clients of mine who have been in various
43:51
different situations kind of surrounding this topic, whether
43:54
it was pregnancy or it was returned from leave and things
43:57
like that. And again, talking about being
44:00
so vulnerable. And in some case, many cases
44:03
from what I've heard, having six finger severance agreements
44:07
dangled at you to say you signed this paper, you are waving,
44:11
you're right to come back after us.
44:13
You're saying that this is amicable.
44:15
You're saying that you agree. You're saying this, you're
44:17
saying that whatever it is that's in these agreements, in
44:20
these NDA's, you can't talk about it.
44:22
And what we're going to do is we're going to give you lots of
44:25
money. Don't think that was probably
44:27
not the case that you were necessarily in.
44:29
And and then that's it. You have to bury the hatchet.
44:32
You can't talk about this ever again.
44:33
And you've basically, and how could people who are in their
44:37
most vulnerable position, how are people not signing that
44:40
agreement, right? Like to say yes I need the
44:42
money, yes I will take this money but in exchange I'm being
44:46
silenced. Yeah.
44:47
And then I also thought about like, how do I continue on with
44:51
my career? Like, yeah, I can't explain why
44:58
I was only at this company for 11 1/2 weeks, but then I've got
45:03
this gap from being laid off. So I was like, I assigned this
45:07
and you move on with your life and who knows how long it's
45:11
gonna take me to get A to get another job and to to replace my
45:15
salary salary, if I even can. Yeah.
45:19
What would be your advice to people who are in that situation
45:21
where they feel like there's a, you know, you get laid off?
45:25
I sidebar, do believe like in what I've been seeing recently,
45:28
layoffs are just happening so much more frequently in this
45:31
generation because of just the speed in which business moves.
45:35
People aren't saying with companies for 40-50 years, tech,
45:37
etcetera. So layups are definitely more
45:40
common, but what would your advice be to somebody who feels
45:42
like there's a growing gap in their resume after coming out of
45:45
a layoff? How do you reconcile that?
45:49
The growing gap, it's hard. It's situational for for
45:53
everyone. For me, what I was trying to do
45:55
is get involved in different organizations and like, at least
45:59
be able to say like what I was doing with my time.
46:03
Um, I took a course, all those sort of things, but that's hard
46:07
to do too at the same time when you've got a new baby.
46:10
So like you want to be able to, that was the other part that was
46:15
heavy on my mind of like, it's hard with them when you're
46:19
you're wanting to just focus that time with your child, but
46:22
now you're job searching and now you're thinking about ways that
46:25
you can keep your skills relevant and show what you were
46:29
doing during that time versus just my time is with my
46:32
daughter. So that added insult to injury
46:35
too. That's so hard.
46:36
I mean, if I can give my two cents as well, It's the, it's
46:40
the just just normalizing it. And the less, yeah, energy you
46:44
give to words like trying to explain what you were doing and
46:47
trying to be like, I was productive.
46:50
It wasn't my fault. Like the I always tried to tell
46:53
people to just like, drop your shoulders, relax and be like,
46:55
oh, you know, those darn, like those darn layoffs, they're
46:58
happening everywhere, right? Like give it that energy of
47:01
like, yeah, it was part of a layoff.
47:03
It was unfortunate, but wow, what a great opportunity it was.
47:06
I got involved with organizations.
47:08
I had, you know, Matt leave where I got to spend extra time
47:12
with my daughter. And now I'm excited to be coming
47:14
back into the workforce and have this new energy.
47:16
You know, it's like it's that it's that tonal shift.
47:19
I feel like you don't like Instagram or TikTok where
47:21
there's people who are talking. They're like, hey, watch this.
47:24
And then it's like, well, you know, it was it was a hard time
47:27
and like I was laid off and probably not for performance,
47:30
but you never known. And then it's versus like the
47:32
ladder, you know, the the alternative for it's like, yeah,
47:35
what? About owning.
47:36
It owning it, I'm being like, yeah, I was laid off, but like
47:39
so were like 50 other people or yeah, I was like too expensive.
47:43
I was pushed out. That happens too, when you're
47:45
getting into the executive level.
47:46
Like you wouldn't tell these stories in a way that people are
47:48
like, Oh, yeah, I mean, and you've been an executive
47:50
yourself where you're like, you hear these stories and you're
47:52
like, yeah, I'm not even batting an eye at the fact that this
47:55
person was laid off because there's so many reasons why
47:57
people are laid off. And a lot of time it's not
48:00
performance related. It's.
48:02
No, like especially at the scale that it's happening now, like
48:05
there's no way that it can be performance related for
48:07
everyone. No, absolutely not.
48:10
Sorry. God, don't.
48:11
I mean, everybody listening? It is, I'm pretty sure everybody
48:14
listening to parents. So they're probably gonna put a
48:19
hole in my mouth, but I don't know if that's gonna be even
48:21
more. Garbled, but we're we're coming
48:25
to the part of the story that is that is very fun, which is what
48:28
you're doing now and what has inspired and come out of this
48:32
absolutely wild story, which I thank you so much for being so
48:35
vulnerable and sharing just even the intricacies of it and
48:38
walking us through. I'm so excited for you to share
48:41
more about mother cover or share about mother cover.
48:43
We haven't even dropped that bomb yet.
48:45
So take us to the inception of this beautiful idea that you
48:49
have at this company that you. Have Yeah.
48:51
So I had the idea for Mother Cover fairly early on.
48:59
Um, but I sat there days after actually and sat on, sat on it
49:04
because I was like, I don't know if this is an actual thing, but
49:08
the thought was as there's kind of a rise in fractional work,
49:13
contract work, particularly for women and parents who maybe have
49:20
had like me 10/15/20 years into their career, better now parents
49:26
and want a little bit more controller or flexibility.
49:31
How to marry that rise with companies who have leaves to
49:37
fill, particularly maternity and, and, and parental leaves.
49:41
And is there a way to kind of create those those marriages so
49:46
that when I say parents, usually 95% of the time right now, maybe
49:53
hopefully this will change its women.
49:56
But when women are going on leave, they can feel like there
50:00
is somebody who is available to step into their shoes that can
50:04
execute their strategy, keep the train on the tracks for them, be
50:10
a resource for their company so that they don't feel like
50:12
they're a burden for taking this time.
50:15
But it solves both sides of the coin of they're able to take the
50:20
time that they need to focus on what's important in in their
50:24
life in that moment, knowing that their career is safe for
50:27
them to come back to. And because I've been the
50:31
executive on the other side of that too.
50:33
That's what was really important to me is, is that acknowledging
50:37
the challenges on the companies side and saying that like we, we
50:42
can find you the right person to fill into those shoes so that
50:46
you don't have to worry about goals being missed.
50:48
You don't have to worry about team burnout because the work
50:50
was just spread out amongst everybody else that's existing
50:54
or or what have you. Basically that solving both
50:58
sides of you can let your people be human beings and your company
51:02
can still move forward. And then that person can come
51:05
back right where they they left off and you've invested in them,
51:09
you've invested in your team and you see the mountains that that
51:13
parent is going to move because you supported them when they
51:15
needed it. Yes.
51:17
And who was the person who is slotting in?
51:20
Like, how? How is that person?
51:22
Where are they coming from? Yeah, So I've as I got brave
51:27
enough to actually launch Mother Cover, so launched it into the
51:31
world and I've either through kind of my own network of,
51:35
again, putting this story out there and hearing from other
51:38
women who are at similar places in their careers who are looking
51:41
for a fractional or contract type of work.
51:43
I started building a roster of folks.
51:46
And then I've had as the kind of word about Mother Cover has
51:48
grown, I've had other people reaching out that I've met with,
51:52
I've had the best conversations and I just start from building
51:55
that roster and database. These are people at those are
51:59
the seniority levels that they're comfortable covering.
52:02
They're marketing, they're in sales, they're in customer
52:04
service, they're people leaders, HR then.
52:10
And these are the industries and starting to build that so that
52:14
when either the parent going on leave or the manager or company
52:18
finds mother cover and they come to us and say, we've got a leave
52:22
to fill. This is what it looks like.
52:24
I can say I've got somebody for you and we set up the process
52:27
from there. When you explained this to me in
52:31
our call that do you know the first thing I think I probably
52:34
told you this dude, the first thing that came to mind was the
52:37
feeling of security that it would give the mother going, the
52:42
person going on leave, typically the mother going on leave and
52:44
how my first maternity leave was coming from corporate.
52:49
So I was leaving Aritzia where I used to work and I was going on
52:52
mat leave. I was not replaced, whereby I
52:55
held a little bit like a tiny bit of guilt, not that much
52:57
because it wasn't my decision, but a tiny bit of guilt that my
53:00
team members were taking on what I was doing.
53:03
My VPN that I reported into was taking a bit of it as like the
53:06
leadership stuff the people on my team were having to cover,
53:09
you know, like literally cover as this is the whole idea of
53:12
mother cover. But then I was always thinking
53:15
like, OK, what I wanted the reverse though, what I've wanted
53:18
like a better version of myself, like come in and woo the team
53:21
over. And then I would feel shy or
53:24
embarrassed or like, am I about to?
53:25
Is this person gunning for my job?
53:28
Because a lot of times people will take contract work, of
53:30
course, because they're like, this is a great in for the
53:33
company. I can go and show what I can do.
53:35
Not necessarily they're gunning to take this mother's position,
53:38
but that they're, you know, they're also trying to grow
53:40
their career. It's a foot in the door.
53:42
And so I was just mad when you explained this.
53:44
I was like, yes, because this is so intentional.
53:47
It's saying you will be covered by somebody whose intention is
53:51
to cover your for that period of time.
53:54
Yeah, build their resume, make sure maybe there's another
53:57
position at the company and who knows.
53:59
I'm sure that happens. But like it's so intentional.
54:02
You were coming to cover. This is not a foot in the door
54:05
to steal this person's job. And I think that's a real thing
54:09
that isn't talked about, right. Like, yeah, absolutely that
54:13
happens. We, we work with a lot of
54:16
American companies where I think it's easier understood the
54:20
challenges there because the leaves are shorter and you
54:22
typically don't have a backfill. So when you're only doing a 345,
54:28
even a six month leave, it's hard to attract somebody into
54:32
such a short term engagement. So they typically don't
54:35
backfill. And that's where you burn out
54:36
teams and and say kind of like the there's a story.
54:40
But then I often get questions to be like, well, you probably
54:44
don't speak to a lot of Canadian companies or or parents because
54:48
it's not the same thing. And it's like our system is just
54:51
flawed in different ways. It looks better on paper than it
54:54
is. But exactly what you you said of
54:56
like if you're filling, if you're posting a 12 to 18 months
55:01
leave, you typically are doing a contract.
55:04
And like you said, somebody is looking at that as a foot in the
55:08
door because who wants to leave a permanent job to take on a
55:11
contract role if it isn't to roll into something else or and
55:17
I've been guilty at the about this for the companies that I've
55:20
worked with where I thought that this was a good solution.
55:22
But as you learn better, you do better.
55:28
We posted permanent jobs because we were in tech.
55:31
So in 12 to 18 months, so much can change.
55:34
And again, in Canada, you don't have to offer the same job back.
55:38
It just has to be a comparable job at the same level.
55:42
So my thinking was that I can hire somebody permanent and I'm
55:46
going to find a spot for both women, not realizing the stress
55:52
and fear that that puts on because I don't want any job
55:55
when I come back. I if I love my job and my
55:58
career, I want my job totally back.
56:00
And it's something that a lot of people, I think, again, men in
56:05
particular, don't have to fear that somebody gets a chance to
56:08
audition for your. Job for a year.
56:11
Yeah, like you said, like are they gonna like them better and
56:14
are they gonna do better? And I'm sure somebody will say
56:16
well, that's good added motivation for you to just step
56:19
up your game. But no, again, you don't have
56:21
that threat in most situations that somebody even gets the
56:24
chance to show you up in your in your job.
56:28
So why would you want to set that person up for success?
56:33
So like that also is just where you're not aligned with the same
56:37
interests and the same interest of your company.
56:39
But then the purpose of Mother Cover is that, yeah, again, we
56:43
don't want your job. We're ideally on to the next
56:46
contract after. And the people that we vet and
56:51
become part of our leave partners is, is what we call
56:54
them, are motivated not just by, yes, they want to take on
57:00
interesting work and add to their, their resumes and build
57:03
their careers, but they are connected to the mission of
57:07
mother Cover and want to help create better experiences.
57:11
So we say that even though it's the company that is paying us,
57:15
it is the parent that is our client.
57:18
So our job is to make you look good.
57:20
We emphasize that it is your strategy that we are executing
57:23
so that you're not forgotten while you're you're off and
57:26
making sure that you feel well ready for transitioning into
57:32
your leave as well as re onboarding back and, and, and
57:37
being able to kind of create a whole process and experience
57:40
around that. And then the companies also can
57:43
use that as evidence of how they're walking the talk or the
57:48
opposite. Yeah, of their culture of it's
57:53
more than just about providing protective leave.
57:55
It's more than just about preparing, providing paid leave,
57:58
all great, really important things that we need to offer.
58:00
But now we're starting to think about the actual experience and
58:03
how to alleviate those things that cause stress for parents
58:07
going on leave and how it leads to better retention.
58:11
Of you're always worried that like, well, they're going to
58:13
leave and then they're not going to come back, that's typically
58:15
because they felt unsupported and they feel like they need,
58:18
they can't get themselves out of the situation that they've
58:22
created, whether there was animosity about the team because
58:25
they've felt overburdened or they missed goals, all those
58:28
sort of things. So to be able to think about
58:30
that experience from a new perspective and to offer a
58:34
relatively simple experience like solution, I think that was
58:38
part of my hesitancy of starting this where I was just like, it
58:40
has to exist like this does this seems too.
58:43
I, I would say easy. It's not easy to actually create
58:46
the set and make those those marriages.
58:48
But it's not maybe because I come from tech that I think
58:51
everything has to be a high tech solution.
58:53
But I was like, this is a human solution.
58:54
Humans helping humans create in the village.
58:58
We can do it if as long as we're willing to kind of think
59:01
differently about how we think about work and how it gets
59:04
covered and yeah, how we can support one another.
59:08
And are you finding that there's so many questions, this could
59:11
literally be a three hour episode because I just find it
59:13
so fascinating. But are you finding that the
59:16
people who are sorry, the leave partners, So the people who are
59:20
back backfilling, for lack of a better word, there are they
59:24
could be mothers themselves or parents or people who want
59:27
flexible work who might say, OK, I have I can work from September
59:32
or through to June. And my kids are off in the
59:34
summer and I hope to be off with them in the summer so that they
59:36
can make decisions on what companies and what situations
59:39
they're filling in. Like is it, is it creating
59:41
flexibility for parents? Like is one of the one of the
59:44
benefits if someone listening who's like, oh, this sounds
59:45
nice. Like what are some of the
59:46
benefits on the lease partner side?
59:48
Yeah, I would say that that's definitely one of them is the
59:51
flexibility. So whether it's you're feeling
59:54
full time for a temporary contract and links that maybe
59:56
you're you're taking your summers off, but actually more
1:00:00
often than not getting more into that fractional side of things,
1:00:05
you don't necessarily need a 1 to 1 replacement.
1:00:08
You just really need somebody who's you're going to pick your
1:00:11
your critical projects that need to keep on track.
1:00:14
Or a lot of this was born from the idea of director level and
1:00:20
about people who need who have teams and thinking about being
1:00:25
able to provide still kind of that coaching guidance to team
1:00:29
members to make sure that they have a resource of someone to go
1:00:32
to make sure the projects are staying on on track.
1:00:34
So you might only need somebody 20 hours a week or however you
1:00:40
want to work it. Maybe it's 30 hours, maybe it's
1:00:42
down to 5 to 10 depending on the role.
1:00:43
Like there's a ton of flexibility and a ton of
1:00:46
different interests depending on kind of what the the leave
1:00:48
partner is after. And they might be able to fill
1:00:51
in for more than one leave at at the time.
1:00:56
Yeah. And and then that, that's how
1:00:57
they can control. Like, do you want to work full
1:01:00
time? Do you want to work more than
1:01:01
full time? Do you want to work part time?
1:01:03
What works for your life right now?
1:01:07
And I've talked to folks that even depending on what their
1:01:12
work allows, they're doing leave contracts on top of a of a
1:01:16
permanent job. So say that they're like I I am
1:01:21
not ready to leave my my corporate job or I need that
1:01:24
stability, but I'm not necessarily finding a lot of
1:01:27
reward. I have find out after you, after
1:01:31
you have children, but this can't happen to anybody at any
1:01:33
stage in your life. You're just like I need.
1:01:34
I want to feel connected to something greater.
1:01:38
Women and other people want to take on these types of contracts
1:01:41
because they are motivated by the mission or they've had a bad
1:01:45
experience where they're just like, I want to provide a better
1:01:47
experience for for another woman.
1:01:49
So I can take on five to 10 hours on top of my my day job
1:01:54
and help support that leave. So I really seen the the full
1:01:58
gamut of people who are already employed, people who want full
1:02:02
time but maybe not full year and people who want short term part
1:02:06
time I. Love it and I love that there's
1:02:09
no, this might sound weird. There's this isn't it?
1:02:13
There's no charity aspect to this.
1:02:14
It's not like here, let me there's no martyrdom involved
1:02:19
because it's not like the person's like, well, I'll go on
1:02:22
leave, but I'll come back or like, you know, the, the, the
1:02:24
mother, for instance, I'm going to call and I'll come back
1:02:25
earlier. I'll be available.
1:02:27
Like there doesn't have to be martyrdom there.
1:02:28
Then the leave partner who's coming in to backfill.
1:02:31
It's not like, oh, I'm going to do a charity service.
1:02:33
No, they're going to get paid, which is incredible because
1:02:35
women should be paid and be paid more for the work that they're
1:02:39
doing, right. So it's like, and then the
1:02:41
companies still have to pay and they're actually probably paying
1:02:43
less because they might not be fully replacing the salary.
1:02:45
So it's. Yeah, like those related people.
1:02:48
Win. Yeah.
1:02:49
And I say that of like because if it's not something that they
1:02:53
thought about before, there's not necessarily budget for it.
1:02:55
So they're like why can't afford a full time hire, especially
1:02:58
ideally if they are paid some sort of top up to parentally.
1:03:02
So. Yeah.
1:03:03
So I was like, we can work within your budget.
1:03:05
So if you're like, I could afford 10 hours a week, let's do
1:03:07
that. We'll find you someone that fits
1:03:09
that. Perfect.
1:03:11
And then typically because it's the leaf partners have more
1:03:15
experience, so they could be filling a individual contributor
1:03:21
or yeah, just a a role that is maybe lower than their
1:03:28
experience. But they're able to do that so
1:03:30
quickly in so 10 hours from somebody who's more senior and
1:03:34
experience that has 10 years already or 15 years in their in
1:03:38
their career can really have a huge impact for your company in
1:03:43
in less time. Oh my goodness, I could ask you
1:03:46
a million more questions, but if before I I we close out, if
1:03:52
somebody is going on a leave is a company who's interested in
1:03:57
this or is interested in a leaf partner role, how might they get
1:04:02
in touch with you? How can they learn more?
1:04:04
Yeah, go to our website whichismothercoveragency.com and
1:04:10
our contact form has options for whether you're looking for leave
1:04:13
coverage, whether you're looking for just traditional fractional.
1:04:15
We also offer. So say you don't actually have a
1:04:18
leave to cover, but you just whether somebody has left and
1:04:21
you're looking for to hire next. We know as I know those hiring
1:04:25
executives can take long time. So we can step in and those ways
1:04:27
too. So you can choose lease
1:04:29
coverage, you can choose fractional coverage, or if
1:04:31
you're actually wanting to meet and potentially become a leaf
1:04:35
partner, that there's an option for that too.
1:04:37
That's so cool. OK, I ask everybody this bad.
1:04:40
What are you still trying to figure out?
1:04:42
Give me work, life, whatever. Oh, well, how to be an an
1:04:49
entrepreneur, I'm probably trying to to figure out because
1:04:52
that was not the intention for, for my life.
1:04:55
But yeah, balancing being an entrepreneur now with a with
1:04:59
being a parent because yeah, the same idea was that I was going
1:05:04
to do fractional work and have more balance in my life.
1:05:07
But I've actually know never worked harder and longer but
1:05:11
when it feels like it's for a greater purpose it's all worth
1:05:16
it. So trying to figure out the if
1:05:18
balance exists or this is just kind of the the new normal.
1:05:21
But I'm loving it right now. Work life integration is what a
1:05:24
friend calls it, which I love, I like.
1:05:26
And now you have two realm clock jobs, entrepreneurship and
1:05:29
parenthood. But it sounds like I can just
1:05:34
see the light up as you talk about it.
1:05:36
It is the most incredible idea, concept, company.
1:05:39
Congratulations on your launch. And I, I feel like you're going
1:05:43
to be in like times and Forbes and all these things talking
1:05:46
about like, how did no one create this before?
1:05:49
Because it's, it's absolutely incredible.
1:05:51
So Congrats. Thank you so much for sharing
1:05:53
your story and your expertise. I feel like I have to have you
1:05:57
come on again and I want to do like a Q&A on like, what would
1:06:00
you do in this situation? What would you do in this
1:06:01
situation? Like just get, just do a rapid
1:06:04
fire. But we'll save that for another
1:06:05
time. I'm game.
1:06:07
Well, you let me know. OK, well, thank you for powering
1:06:11
through a toddler cold and we will speak very soon.
1:06:14
Thank you, Beth. Thank you.
1:06:19
Thank you so much for listening and since you made it this far,
1:06:22
please share this episode with a fellow parent who you love,
1:06:25
respect, and want to support. And while you're at it, hit me
1:06:29
up on Instagram at All Figured Out.
1:06:31
Andrea, I would love to meet you and hear what you are trying to
1:06:34
figure out these days.