Latest / Love Matters With Leeza Mangaldas / From People-Pleasing to Self-Love: Shreya Dhanwanthary on Dating in Your 20s vs 30s

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From People-Pleasing to Self-Love: Shreya Dhanwanthary on Dating in Your 20s vs 30s · Love Matters With Leeza Mangaldas

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I'm not playing it coy. I'm not playing shy. If
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I want someone.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: I would make it known.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: No, I would make it not to everybody.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: I definitely think for me, sex in my thirties is
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: different than sex in my twenties because I know myself
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  Speaker 2: so much better.
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  Speaker 1: I like passion. I like knowing that a person wants
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  Speaker 1: to meet me or wants to talk to me now.
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  Speaker 1: So it's very sexy when someone comes up to you
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  Speaker 1: and just says, listen, I find you very attractive or interesting.
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  Speaker 1: I would love to take you out for me or dinner,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: whatever would you like to go with me?
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: I'm like, please, man, you've got a date, of course,
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: I'll go with you. Hello and welcome to Love Matters.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: I'm Lisa Mangeldas, and today we're going to be exploring
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: how attitudes to love, sex and relationships evolve from one's
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  Speaker 2: twenties to one's thirties. And to compare notes with me,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: because that's always more fun. I have Sria dan Uenti,
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: who I feel very lucky to call a friend, but
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: who also, as you know, is a multitalent actor, director, writer.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: You've seen her in our Balkis Chirp, Mumbai, Darius twenty
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  Speaker 2: six eleven, Scam ninety ninety two, The Family Man. I
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  Speaker 2: could go on and on and on. Such a talented
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  Speaker 2: woman and so smart, so funny, so much fun. We're
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  Speaker 2: gonna we're gonna keep it real today, Asia. Are you ready?
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: I'm ready? Yeah, spilled the tea on on dating and
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: love matters. Yes, okay, well okay, So do you remember
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: the first date you ever went on, like a proper,
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  Speaker 2: properdat or do the teenage ones count?
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  Speaker 1: No, like proper proper date? I do, I do, I
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  Speaker 1: actually do. So. I was eighty it it was my
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: first day, first day, first dair. It was my first
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  Speaker 1: date with the person who would go on to be
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  Speaker 1: my boyfriend for the next seven years. Oh wow, yeah,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: so I'd say he planned a pretty good date.
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  Speaker 2: Well do you remember?
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  Speaker 1: It was classic? It was like a dinner in a
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  Speaker 1: movie and we missed the movie, so we went for
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  Speaker 1: dinner instead in this nice hotel that he couldn't afford,
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  Speaker 1: I know. And then we had like a great meal
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: and I had hostile timings. Okay, Now this is the
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: part where I feel like I'll get into trouble, but
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Say it anyway.
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  Speaker 1: But we had hostile timings and I couldn't make it.
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  Speaker 1: So we rented out a room. No, no, no, perfect
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  Speaker 1: gentleman behavior. Nothing happened, guys, very pg, I'm still eighteen. No,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: but really nothing happened.
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  Speaker 2: It was I'm not want to judge, but I believe.
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  Speaker 1: But we were okay, just we spent the whole night
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: talking and then because it was it happened to be
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Valentine's Day, Oh my god, I know, Titanic was playing.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: So we ended up having a dinner and a movie
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: and we talked till sunrise, and we had breakfast and
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: he bought me a cup of like a boost because
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: boost is the secret of my energy, and then he
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  Speaker 1: dropped me back to the hostel.
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  Speaker 2: That is so sweet.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we did it for the next seven years.
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  Speaker 1: So it was good.
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  Speaker 2: So your twenties work with this one person pretty much.
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  Speaker 1: Then, I mean the yeah at least, yeah, yeah, it was,
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  Speaker 1: it really was.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. How would you describe your dating experiences in your twenty
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  Speaker 2: Sounds like it was really wholesome, So.
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  Speaker 1: I would say this, I have been lucky enough because
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: again Lisa knows this, but you know, love matters and
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: the audience doesn't. So I'm gonna fill you in. But
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  Speaker 1: I have been lucky enough to be in like healthy
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  Speaker 1: relationships with pretty great guys, and we're all like in
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  Speaker 1: touch with each other, wishing each other well. A couple
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  Speaker 1: of them are married, happily married. And yeah, I've I've
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  Speaker 1: been really lucky. I mean, I've never had those horrifying
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  Speaker 1: stories I'm having dates or no.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, so okay, so do we keep it different take
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  Speaker 2: on twenties versus thirties, Like, I'm really grateful that I
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  Speaker 2: now know what I know, because I feel like in
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  Speaker 2: my twenties, I didn't know a lot of things.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, like what like genuinely, because this is a question
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  Speaker 1: I also tend to ask my friends. I'm very curious
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  Speaker 1: to find out what is the one, just one major
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  Speaker 1: difference that you think that has changed in your wants
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  Speaker 1: from say, your twenties to your thirties.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: I think I spent a lot of my twenties trying
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: to please other people, like chronic people pleaser. I was
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  Speaker 2: disingenuously nice, even like to the point of, yeah, where
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  Speaker 2: you're overriding your own once because you're so I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: I guess I had low self esteem. I don't even
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  Speaker 2: know why I was such a people pleaser. It is
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  Speaker 2: still a struggle for me, hard to say no, hard
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  Speaker 2: to like, if I have a strong preference, I'll pretend
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  Speaker 2: it's not so sfect. I'll be like, whatever you want
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  Speaker 2: to those types of things. And I think my boundaries
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: and my ability to ask for what I want. And
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: you know, it wasn't even only in my relationships. It
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  Speaker 2: was like even like let's say, asking for a raise
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  Speaker 2: at work, that would be a difficult conversation for me
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  Speaker 2: in my twenties. Today, I'm like, much more contact. Yeah, okay,
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  Speaker 2: but do you know what I mean?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, but no genuine question. Is that also problem or
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  Speaker 1: do you think it's a general woman problem.
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  Speaker 2: I think it's a very common I think exactly that's
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  Speaker 2: what I also, But like, it sounds like maybe your
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  Speaker 2: personal life was not afflicted with chronic people pleasing behavior.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know, was it, Okay?
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  Speaker 1: I think it was. I think the stage was set
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  Speaker 1: for me to go that way. You know, I think
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  Speaker 1: the conditioning is so strong that I think you are
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  Speaker 1: absolutely it has to be a gender conditioning thing where
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  Speaker 1: women genuinely just make space for everyone else so that
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  Speaker 1: they are comfortable and then we get a lot of
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  Speaker 1: joy from other people's joy. You know, it's a very
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  Speaker 1: reactive sort of happiness.
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  Speaker 2: But I think I also like wanted I don't know,
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  Speaker 2: I wanted to be like desirable to men, like I
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  Speaker 2: don't know why. Like see, I was really fat as
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  Speaker 2: a kid, okay, okay, and oh I didn't know that
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  Speaker 2: really yeah, And so I think and unfortunately, like life,
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: the world is a cruel players to people who are overweight, right,
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  Speaker 2: Like that can your self esteem is going to take
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: a beating if like it between twelve and seventeen you're overweight,
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  Speaker 2: You're like gonna hear about it from your classmates. And
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  Speaker 2: we made fun of and the kids can be really
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  Speaker 2: cruel to each other. And I think that at the
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  Speaker 2: same time, and there was no body positivity social media
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  Speaker 2: at the time. There was no like, you know, any
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  Speaker 2: media representation of attractiveness was always a very thin woman
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  Speaker 2: who was curvy only in the right places. And you know,
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  Speaker 2: I was like overweight with no boobs, you know. So
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: I think that the idea of like being desirable like
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  Speaker 2: boys liking you was something that maybe you don't want
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  Speaker 2: what you don't have. I don't know, I was like this,
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  Speaker 2: I came first in class, I was super nerdy, I
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  Speaker 2: was like all of that stuff. In some ways, it's
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  Speaker 2: like that I'm grateful that I had to like cultivate
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  Speaker 2: all these other aspects of my personality to get approval,
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  Speaker 2: attention and affection. You know, I think many people who
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: are just like not not to generalize, but sometimes it
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  Speaker 2: can be like if you're really attractive from a very
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  Speaker 2: young age, like just the amount of attention you're see
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  Speaker 2: with no without having to try, makes you almost as
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  Speaker 2: a coping mechanism.
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  Speaker 1: I think, like dal Yeah, dal As Ditchwater, No, I
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  Speaker 1: completely agree. I had the same experience because well, I
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: was am still a very proud nerd and I used
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  Speaker 1: to come in first. I used to come in first
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  Speaker 1: at class as well, and I like to learn. And
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  Speaker 1: I didn't know that I wasn't fortunate looking, let's put
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  Speaker 1: it politely, that I wasn't pleasant looking. Uh until uh
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  Speaker 1: I started dating the most popular guy in school. Now
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  Speaker 1: there's a big story behind that. I don't wanna get
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  Speaker 1: into it. It's very courage or her student of the
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  Speaker 1: year type, it really is. But uh so, the news
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  Speaker 1: spread like wildfire that the most popular guy in school
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  Speaker 1: asked this girl share or random whatever out and they
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  Speaker 1: didn't even know who I was. That's how like, I
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  Speaker 1: don't know, not in the social scene or not clued
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  Speaker 1: into things I was. And when like the girls came
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  Speaker 1: to check out who this girl is or this girl
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  Speaker 1: was who was dating the guy? Uh. I heard the
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  Speaker 1: word ugly for the first time, very loudly, and I
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  Speaker 1: heard that repeat some twenty seven times in the day.
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  Speaker 1: It was too much. I was fourteen, cruel, it was
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  Speaker 1: too much, and for the first time, I never liked.
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  Speaker 1: It never occurred to me that that I wasn't all that,
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  Speaker 1: you know, decent looking. It never even occurred to me.
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  Speaker 1: So I don't know because by then, because I like
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  Speaker 1: to learn and gain knowledge, and I didn't receive attention
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  Speaker 1: apart from my very popular boyfriend at the time. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I think we had to cultivate other aspects of my
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: you know, our personalities. I think we had to develop
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  Speaker 1: a sense of humor, thick skin, which is shockingly fragile,
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  Speaker 1: and you know, various other things.
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  Speaker 2: I feel like, you know, I mean, it came with time,
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  Speaker 2: but I think definitely I spent some of my twenties
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  Speaker 2: like wanting to make myself attractive demand.
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  Speaker 1: I did the opposite. That's I think where I like
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  Speaker 1: to say, yeah, I did the complete opposite. I was like, okay,
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  Speaker 1: so if this is not available to me, then this
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  Speaker 1: is not something I want at all. So I just because, so,
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  Speaker 1: what did you look like? I did not look like
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: this I had again. I was tall, I was skinny,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: but that's it. I was because I'm Indian. I was
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: hairy everywhere in the visible parts also so everywhere, like
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  Speaker 1: I could grow a healthy beard and mustache. I still can.
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  Speaker 1: And I had sod of body glasses, you know. And
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  Speaker 1: I was a bit too forthcoming for my own benefit,
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  Speaker 1: which I still am. I feel like a lot of
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: things I haven't changed because I've been great guys. But no,
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  Speaker 1: I just went completely the opposite. And in fact, I
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: went so the other way that I started looking now
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: just something that has changed, obviously with a little age
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  Speaker 1: and little wisdom. I started looking at any sort of
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  Speaker 1: idea of beauty, like to take care of your hair
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: or your skin or the way you present yourself as
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: sort of antithetical to my personality. Because I went complete
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: punk rock. I went the other side. So it's very
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: Avril Levine and the other side. So I'm like, Okay,
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  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go your ass. I don't give a shit.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna look pretty pink and go to hell.
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  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna wear anything that's fitting. You know. It's
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  Speaker 1: I went completely radical because I was like, Okay, this
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  Speaker 1: avenue is not available to me. I'm not gonna make
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  Speaker 1: myself attractive for your benefit at all.
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  Speaker 2: Interesting And then did did like show business make you
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: have to like just veeer back to this? Isn't it funny?
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  Speaker 2: Tell me?
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  Speaker 1: Because it's again I choose a career that very much
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  Speaker 1: puts the idea of beauty at the forefront. It's a
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  Speaker 1: very public facing job where all of this is very
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  Speaker 1: much presentation. You can't just show up looking like however
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  Speaker 1: you want to do. And this itself like the fact
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  Speaker 1: that I've come up like this big change for my
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: personality from when I was like a teenager or even
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: in my twenties. So the idea again of me associating
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: beauty with femininity with not as a response to men
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: was the thing that I learned later because I now
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  Speaker 1: enjoy doing this for myself. I realize that when I
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: dress up, I actually do that to impress other women. Yeah, no,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: because it's true. I want, like a compliment from a
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  Speaker 1: woman is I mean, I feel like that makes my
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: day and a comproment for guys, like you know they
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: yell it out. I do, even if you don't want to.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: Well you are so fan, thank you.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: But I mean it like I feel all of these things,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: the idea of pink, the idea of playing with barbies,
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  Speaker 1: the idea of everything that I associated as a bad thing,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: and when people can.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Sada if you're not like other girls as a compliment,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: which we've all realized is so wrong exactly, like I'm
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: absolutely like other girls and all girls are amazing.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Because and we use the word like girly as a
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: derogatory term, we use oh you know why you being like?
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: And I took all of it as offensive, like I
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: wanted to distance my idea from that aspect of being
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  Speaker 1: a woman so much, only because I thought that was
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: a response to the male gaze.
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  Speaker 2: So that was in your twenties. I was actually younger.
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  Speaker 1: I tell yesterday, No, no, but it is. It is
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: mainly till I was like in my twenties, because then
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: I struggled with how performative the idea of beauty is
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: in my chosen career as well, which is why I
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: think there were a lot of like hilarious missteps which
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: are available for public viewing unfortunately. But then I as
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: you get comfortable with yourself, with your personhood, with your sexuality,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: even with all of these things, I feel like you
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: realize that a lot of it is societal conditioning. A
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: lot of your responses are more reactive rather than you
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: taking an active idea of who you are.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: So yeah, exactly. I feel like my twenties I was
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: still getting to know who I am, still more susceptible
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: to certain conditioning and less aware, less like hyper aware
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: of what is conditioning and what is actually what I want.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: I think it took some unlearning that happened over my
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: twenties to recognize that sometimes how I feel is like
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: the baggage of what I've been told I should feel
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: versus how I actually feel about whether it's being in
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: a relationship versus being single. I think women always kind
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: of like made to feel like somehow, you know, like
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: that word spinster is like a bad word. It's like
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: an ugly word. We'll batchelor, yeah, like clear slade, Like
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: you know, the there is like huge amounts of misogyny
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: that it's hard not to internalize in the way that
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: people look at there's like very double lots of double
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: standards around how.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: That right, absolutely very idea for guys sleeps with like
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: twenty women. Come on, he's a killer, I mean, he's
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: a player. That's cool. The same thing if if a
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: woman does it, it can't she want are judged for it?
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Right completely? There are words that a horrible for someone
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: And I think it took some time to reject a
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: lot of that where you really, I mean you felt like,
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: what this is stupid? But to have the enough confidence
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: to just live your like I mean, I talk about
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: sex for a living public Internet thank you, you know,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Like I mean I get called those types of names
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: every day in the comments I can imagine, but like,
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: I really like, no part of me is affected by
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: like literally that's what That's the best you got, Okay,
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: But twenty Lisa and her twenties might not have had
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: the thing.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: But that's what I have a question for Lisa in
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: her twenties, if you're able to your mark a moment
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: that you felt like was was it like a light
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: bulb moment where you suddenly realized most of my stuff
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: is for I mean, most of my being is for
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: other people? Do I even know who I am? Why
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: do I get so much happiness from pleasing other people?
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: And when did you decide to sort of that?
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: You know what, I've realized, I don't even get any
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: happiness from pleasing these people. Why am I so like?
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Why do I need to be the good girl? In
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: my head? People find it hard to believe that I
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: had Sorry, you know, this is an interview with about you,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: but I'm very curious.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: I really want to know. Was there actually like a
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: light bulb moment where you realized, like I did something
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: was purely for someone else, actually at my own expense exactly.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: I realized that over and over again, and it actually
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: I didn't derive joy from that. I think I was
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: like reluctant to be to disappoint to And it partly
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: also is because you see yourself a certain way. I
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: think I wanted to be the not a good I
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: never like, I don't think talk about sex and the
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: internet makes you a bad girl, although many people do
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: think that. You know, but think I couldn't steal a
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: safety pin like I couldn't I wouldn't lie. I wouldn't
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: like in my own head, I was this person with
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: a lot of integrity and like it's us to put
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: yourself for Yeah, exactly, you know what I mean. So
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Alisa needs to be responsible and diligent and productive, and
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: you know, like I would feel guilty sleeping because I
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: could be working or like doing something for someone. I
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: could add a guiltful laden relationship with like rest with
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: you want to be I want to come first. I
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: need the gold star. And I realized that I that
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: it is actually admire people who are true to them,
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: who aren't so afraid of being disliked that they are disingenuous,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean. There's something actually really pathetic
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: about that. And I feel like I was that pathetic
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: person who needed to be liked in my twenties and
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: I'm glad that and it's not you know, you might
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: know something, but you don't change, yeah, overnight, even though
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: you know. It just takes time to like undo the behaviors.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: So for me, my thirties is like, I think the
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: big change and I really appreciate that that's finally happened,
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: is that in my personal life I'm much less away people, please.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: I was so conflict averse. I would never describe it.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: When something displeased me, I would just shove it on
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: the carpet, avoid conflict at all, casts and think that
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: I'm someone who never gets angry. Did you have any
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: like radical transformations from your twenties to your thirties in
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: that regard? Did you learn about yourself?
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: See? In this regard the beauty thing that I was
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: talking about, embracing my femininity and even if, like say,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: I dress androgynously and all of that, that doesn't take
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: away from me being a woman, like the idea and
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: the definition of a woman is what you define it
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: to be. That was a big radical change because I
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: know how I used to being versus how I am now,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: how I present myself now. That was a big radical change.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: But in terms of see, like I said, I have
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: been in create relationships. That's why the without getting into
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: it too much, you know this, but I just got
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: out of something recently and after that, I feel like
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: I'm I don't know how to say it. I haven't
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: felt like this in a long time because even like
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: you said, people maybe it's a conditioning thing, like you said,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: but women are always sort of considered incomplete if they're
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: not in a relationship, if they're not tethered to someone,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: and if they are, they don't have children or they're
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: not married, do.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: You feel them that more in your thirties.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I feel that until the recent thing that is that
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: I'm no longer in which I was very much invested in.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: But I don't know I'm finally free because still this
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: relationship that I just had, I there was a little
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: bit of that. There was a little bit of way
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: because I had been single for quite some time voluntarily
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: haven't because I have been in great relationships. I didn't
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: wanna be in anything that wasn't you know, gonna gonna
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: make me feel great again, And this one did, and
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: and then it stopped and it didn't whatever. But I
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: don't know. After that, I feel completely I don't know
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: how to say it, but weightless, like unencumbered for the
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: first time in a long time, because even when I
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: said it before, I don't think I meant it. So
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: that's a big change. I genuinely think I'm free and
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: comfortable and okay with the idea of being on my own,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: which saying that lot seems very.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Is that w is that something that in your twenties
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: you didn't see yourself being able to assert, Like, was
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: it important to you in a way that it is
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: no longer important to you to have a partner?
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: No, I think it was in the back of my
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: head because I've I'd always been in long term relationships. Right,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: I'd always been with someone in my entire actually since
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: ever since, yeah, ever since I was seventeen. Right, I'd
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: always been No, actually ever since I was fourteen, since
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: that student of the Year dude. But I'd always been
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: in relationships till my thirties, so I'd never actually been alone,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: and then when I voluntarily decided to stay off and
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: be by myself a little bit until I fell in
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: love again. But yeah, I think in the back of
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: my head, I thought, you know, yeah, it's nice to
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: have someone. It's nice to be with someone. You know,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: it's nice to have that one person you can share
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: your joys and your highs and lose with. Don't get
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: me wrong, it's still nice if you find that person.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: But now I no longer need a feel the need
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: to have that above my own comfort, like to have that. Yeah,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: at a point where I need to settle or I
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: need to compromise on certain things that I don't want to,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: you know, And I I feel like I've finally achieved
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: that year my mid thirties, Like I feel I haven't
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: been able to feel that because I feel like at
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: the back of my head there's always a little bit
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: of fear. Now finally I feel very unencumbered, and I feel.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Like the fear of being alone, it's like a legitimate fear.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: These people have that fear, and it really can be
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: an obstacle because sometimes being alone is better than some
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: other options. Like it's not a bad option.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: No, it very much is. Because I've been in I
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: remember saying this one too, in a relationship that actually
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: ended badly, one of the few ones. I'm not gonna
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: call it a relationship in a thing whatever I should,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: I got its thing. And I remember saying this line
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: to him, saying that I have never felt lonelier than
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: I do right now with you. And I think that's
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: the worst worst feeling to have ever. That is absolutely
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: the worst. Like, imagine you have someone and you still
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: feel deeply lone, and I think the people feel unheard.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: They do, absolutely, and they still think it's okay to
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: be there. Then to just be on your own. And
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: now I've come to the point where like it's okay, man,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: my piece is my piece. There are some things I
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: want to achieve, some things I want to do. If
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: having a partner in my life is something that happens, great,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Otherwise I'm actively actually no longer looking for it, not
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: at all looking for it, which is very ironic considering
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: I'm on a lovely show called Love Matters.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: But I feel like love finds you and you don't
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: have to seek it out often, and it's nice to
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: come to it from a place of I'm whole already, yeah,
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: as opposed to I feel incomplete. So I'm like yearning
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: for this thing that seems elusive.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: No, but I get it from so many other avenuets.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: I get it from my friends, I get it from
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: my work, I get it from my family, all of
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: whom I feel like I'm very lucky to have, because
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: a lot of people's trauma comes from these different avenues,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: right from their family, from their mother, from their father,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: from their siblings, or from their work or not achieving.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: And I've been lucky and privilege that I feel like
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: even when a relationship, if it's what happens because I've
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: been in great relationships, so it should be great, or
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: it shouldn't have space in my life.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: How would you define a great relationship?
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: I think one that allows you to be yourself, where
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: you still remember to be kind to each other, you
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: still remember to have a healthy sense of respect, great communication,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: and you know, preferably a healthy sex life.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: I'm so happy to hear, though, that you describe your
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: twenties as a series of agreed It really was. Thank you, guys,
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: that's a wonderful thing. Yeah, well done, Yeah, well excess.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: Never thought i'd be saying that state memory. I know
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: there are good men out there, but where are they now? Anyway?
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Have you ever been on a dating app?
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: I have, so you remember I just said that there
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: was a period where I realized, after my breakup of
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: a very serious relationship, I thought, okay, this was something
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: that I thought would like. We really had thought, because
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: our families knew each other, we'd gone on vacations with
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: each other's families, and we thought, okay, this is it.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: And you're in your you know, you're also thirty. I
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: just don't thirty with him as well. So that ended.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: I thought I needed to take time for myself. And
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: I'd never actually been single, properly single since I was fourteen,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: so I thought, again, I was a time people you
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: know have fun in their twenty should have I should
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: have that. Plus I wasn't like doing all that much
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: at my work, so which means I still had a
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: decent level of anonymity.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: And that's when I.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: Was on the apps.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: On that note, we have this little segment when I
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: play with you called.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Swipe left is swipe right left is note right? Yes right?
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: In Trusty Sorry, so I believe so okay, so.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: And then I'm gonna like investigate.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: At let's play this game.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So I'm gonna throw a few dating scenarios
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: at you, and you tell me if it's a swipe
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: right or a swipe left and right equals good? Yes, okay, okay,
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: text back between sorry texts that texts back within three
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: seconds every time?
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, I don't mind it. Yeah, I'm very much
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: a text tobacco to seconds double text yes fifteen.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Right, So I write, okay, good.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Me too.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: They say I don't really believe in labels.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: No left, that's left. I mean, I get what I
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: don't again go for boxes or whatever. But that's just
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: a roundabout way of saying that you don't know who
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: you are what you want.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: They want to split the bill exactly down to the repeat.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Left.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, also down down. I think it's nice to take times.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: I feel like when someone is generous. I'm very generous.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Comb on, come on, suck it up. Man still shares
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: a Netflix password with their X No.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Come on. I mean, I'm friendly with my exes, but
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: not that much.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: They cancel a day at last minute.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: If they have a reasonable explanation, I don't mind, actually,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: but they should be able to follow it up with
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: another plan and communication and an apology. It's all good. Agree, Okay.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: They send you reels or memes every night.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: No problem. Yeah, that's fine, that's fine. I like it.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: They own five cats.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: This is I don't Oh. I think cats are the
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: guardians of the underworld, much like the Egyptians. So no, no,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: not for me. Okay, as long as okay, how about this,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: as long as I don't have to interact with the
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: cats at any point.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: So do you not like cats or do you think
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: men who like cats are like you?
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: No? I don't like cats.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: You just don't like cats.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: So if it's a woman who I like cats, I
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be friends though, either.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, I mean you just don't like cats.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: What about dogs?
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: So if he had five dogs, no problem? Okay, that's
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: a sad even if the cats is not a problem.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: I just you'd like to keep your distance from the cat.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, with with the Egyptians on this.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: One, a logistical it would pose a logistical issue, a
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: slight issue.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: They post every.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: Meal on Instagram before eating.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Is this okay, I'm gonna say something weird. I actually
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: really like it. This is a weird thing. No judgment,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: but there is. I'm sure I don't I'd like it
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: when the guys not on social media. I like it
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: at all. I just I like it. So maybe not
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: every meal. Maybe that's a bit of a something something
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: that is no.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Uh, they never reply with emojis, that's okay.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: I have dated a few, though some of my friends
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: are that unfortunately, So.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: It's okay, okay.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: It's okay. I get I have those people in my life.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: I all them military texts, but they're there. They're there.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: It's okay.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: They clap when the airplane lands.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Come on, is it ironic? No?
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: No, if it's ironic, show okay, Okay, you're giving me
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: the benefit of the time giving Yeah, we're gonna do
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: good faith interpretations of people's actions, right faith, Okay, super okay.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Coming back to the dating apps and dating in your thirties,
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: what's it been like because you described your twenties is
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: quite idyllic, and I feel like I'm getting the sense
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: like maybe the.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Thirties were like the Okay, So I think if you
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: want to date and goof around and have fun, any
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: decade is fine. Absolutely, any decade, like even like, it's
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: a lot of fun when you're a teenager, it's a
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: lot of fun. When you're in your twenties, it's a
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: lot of fun, even when you're in when you're in
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: your thirties, I had a lot of fun. So it's
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of fun when you're dating wanting to get
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: to know people and not take it seriously that scenario,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: it's fun when you want to take it seriously. No,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: it's not been fun because you are I mean, there
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: are men who just want to I don't know that
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: they're not seriously looking for a relationship, because I think
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: the availability of people on the apps. It's very much
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: like a kid in a supermarket. So why stop when
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: there's another candy on the shelf. Why stop when there's
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: another candy on the shelf, even if it's a candy
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: you like both ways?
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: Or do you think men are more guilty of that
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: kind of behavior. I think that'll do some extent with
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: apps paralyzed by Joyce.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Sure, I think so, because I think it affects. But
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: I feel like, at least with the women who I
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: am surrounded with, I don't know, they know when to
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: they know how to spot what they want, and when
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: they get it, they know how to hold on to it.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: I'm still speaking in a very supermarketing metaphor. I'm gonna
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: get out of that, but I'm just saying like if
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: if they still, if a woman finds someone that she's
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: attracted to her she finds interesting, I think she still
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: she'd rather make effort there than it just go around cruising,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: you know, or browsing, which I feel like for men
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: it's because if again we've we've spoken about the bare
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: minimum things so much. The thing is if they have
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: they're well behaved, have like they have good comportment, you know,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: good deportment, and they carry themselves well, they have good manners,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: all of that a little bit, and then everybody is
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: like putty in their hands because they're so bars. Yeah,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: there's no there is no bar.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: There is no bar.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Well Limbo's in hell.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's nice to be honest
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: about your dating intentions. And what I've found when I
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: was on the apps is that there's amazing women on
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: the apps. They are amazing women on the apps. Not
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: so much the men. The men who don't bring very
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: much to the table, then the ones.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: That do, they have a lot of options.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but they're not sincere about their dating intentions because
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: they know that a lot of women, especially in their thirties,
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: are looking for a committed relationship. So they look right
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: there like looking for my life partner, interested in monogamy,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: things like that, but really they just want like a
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: little bit of monica. Yeah, I are very mud that
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: they're looking for this serious thing because they know that
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: they because they want the girlfriend experience, Okay, they want
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: to be treated.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: With without having to provide the boyfriend experience.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: They'll provide the boyfriend experience to everyone Yeah, that's a
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: classic player behavior, right, you make each of the many
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: women in your way they feel like the universe.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: That's another thing I do, Lisa, Like, I I never
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: say like, at least when I was on the apps,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: I'd never say that I'm looking. And also I never
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: dated for a long term relationship while I was on
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: the apps. This is more of my general because I
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: like prefer meeting people in real life, so I've never
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: actually dated anyone on the apps with the intention of
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: taking it long term. So even I'm.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Aware, yeah, I know, and like, I think it's nice
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: to just be honest. I think what's annoying, I don't
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: judge anyone. You want to be casual and have a
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: lot of experiences. I actually think it's quite valuable in
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: your life to explore, to have a bunch, to date
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: a lot, so you know what you like and don't
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: like it, you know. I think that some people have
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: really not dated enough and then and it's just good
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: to know what's out there, and it teaches you a
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: lot about yourself, even the ones that don't go well.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: But I wonder whether to some extent the sort of
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: combination of nonchalance on the apps as well as how
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: easy it is to project something rather than just sincere
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: about your intentions leads to a lot of disappointment and
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: just like it can feel a bit like you've wasted time,
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: So I want to extrapolate this very word that you said,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: which I think is a great wad to describe what's happening.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: It's nonchalant. I don't think it's just on the apps.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Actually think it's very much a reflection of where we
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: are right now. I feel that everywhere. I feel that
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: in the way people are telling their stories, writing films,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: making music, interacting with each other, having friendships, because no
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: one wants to make the effort, but everyone wants to
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: receive the rewards. Yeah, everybody, and everybody talks about the
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: trauma that they have. Everybody's learned therapy speak without actually
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: knowing that they're, you know, part of the problem themselves.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: So this nonchalance has crept in everywhere, and people don't
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: want to be passionate about anything. I feel like again,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: it's all about the games you play, right like you
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: even one of the questions you asked the like text
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: within three seconds. It's all that I didn't even know
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: that these are things that you know you shouldn't text immediately.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: You shouldn't, you shouldn't text, double text, you know, you
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: shouldn't even give give it a while. Why don't show
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: interest or you know, don't show that you're desperate for
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: the job. Don't show you that you really want that.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I like passion. I like knowing that
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: a person wants to meet me or wants to talk
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: to me, or you know that I really want to
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: go for that particular role. And like I said, I'm
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: broadly extrapolating this to everything in life, but that's crept
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: in everywhere. And I think that's a reflection even on
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: the apps with the people who don't want to put
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: in that that much effort, especially because our expectations are
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: so used to people behaving badly. So with the bare
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: minimum people are responding. So they're like, if I'm not
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: doing anything and I'm getting it so much in return,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: why should I bother?
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: I find bare minimum energy like just so off putting,
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: honestly in everything, And don't you think it's reflected everywhere?
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: So do I?
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: I want intensity? Okay, then how do you tell people that?
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know? How do you tell people that when
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: everybody's conditioned to play games, how do you, apart from communication,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: how do you tell people how that is okay to
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: be intense and passionate and go after what you want?
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: Even do you think it's hard to meet people because
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: you're famous, Like, how does being a public figure impact
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: your personal life?
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: How would you answer this question? It's absolutely the same.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: But I mean, I'm just we can both talk about it.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: I do think that being on the apps, for example,
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: can be a little bit I'm not like, you know,
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: so famous, but then I think people who do know
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: your little I'm internet famous or whatever, and then they
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: know me as the woman who talks about sex. So
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: I would often I guess, can people like think they
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: know you? You don't know them. They think they know you,
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: and they've made certain assumptions about you. So there's a
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: bit of that. But I also not use a dating
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: app until very recently, and I have this idea of like, oh,
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: I only want to meet offline, and it's so much
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: more romantic to have a meet cute. So just like,
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: but it's kind it's not possible anymore. And I realized,
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: like it's a huge world out there, and the apps
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: allow for your pool to be much more diverse in
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: this way that like your social circle just isn't.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I was kind of like proven wrong
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: a bit. I definitely had like my share of of
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: the types of experiences I expected, because I really didn't
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: expect much from the apps. But then I was like
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: pleasantly surprised, and I'm really wonderful bad experience, not bad,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: but like need like whatever, mediocre experience. But yeah, but
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: I was pleasantly surprised. I didn't expect to meet anyone I'd.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Like, so the same thing with me, But I I
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: don't know for me, because again, the apps rely on uh,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: you being quippy and witty and attractive and a very
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: specific type of way. Once you figure that out, it's
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: very easy. And I feel like my extralogical, scientific brain
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: cracked that pretty early and it was very easy, and
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: I have met amazing people, and it just it got
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: boring and repetitive for me for a while, which is
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: why I was single for a long time until I
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: had this person when I was traveling. But I I
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: don't know, Yeah, I genuinely think, like you said, the
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: nonchalance really still travels hmm. And there's a lot of
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: UH on aer a life that's lived online, even with
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: the apps, even when you meet someone that you like, UH,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: because everybody's leading such busy lives where making the effort
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: genuinely seems like such a big task for a lot
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: of people. I prefer, like, I don't know, meeting someone
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: in the old school way. How I'm gonna do that,
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know, because I think, like you again repeated
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: what I'm about to say. I sorry, I'm gonna repeat
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: what you already said. Is that, Yeah, we don't meet
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: uh that many people that often we are outside of
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: our career spears, you know, out sort of the scope
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: of our work, and to make a connection in a mute,
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: in a meat cute is harder than one would say.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: It's very romanticized, and I don't think it happens that often,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: which is why I've decided to take myself out of
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: the game entirely anyway and come back to the comes
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: back to the same point. But yeah, I think it's
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: hard because the only people I meet are people at
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: my workplace, and I particularly don't really want to date
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: someone from my workplace, only because I feel like I
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: would be interested in exploring experiences that are different from
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: my own, and I would want that. But since I'm
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: no longer looking, I no longer care.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: I'm not natural such an optimistic note. Let's play another game.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: It's called no overthinking, and we are going to throw
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: some scenarios of lions at you and you got to
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: just complete the line. Okay, So a first date deal
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: breaker is.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: Arriving late, not giving a s, disinterested.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: Smoking, interesting, so you wouldn't date me?
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: No, I noticed that on our first date you were
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: like what I just ended on the first meet you?
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: All the thoughts across my mind. Yes, interesting, okay, because
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: it's a weird thing that my family has. So we
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: have noses like bloodhounds, extra sensitive. So yeah, nothing about
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: the smell of tobacco or weed is attractive to me.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: What are your first date deal breakers? Tell us in
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: the comments. We love for you to spill the tea.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: I shall consider quitting.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: Uh, okay, My celebrity crash is.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Oh right now, it's that I can't believe I don't
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: know his name. It's the guy from Rebel Ridge.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: I don't believe.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: I don't even know what that is. I feel like
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: it's a Netflix film, So the of that, Okay, I
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: can wish we shall google after this. I can't believe
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know your name. Sorry, man, so much for
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: true love.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: The best relationship advice that I've ignored is.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: When someone shows you who they are, believe them. I've
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: ignored it all the time.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I Something that instantly kills the mood during sex
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: is hah.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: There are some dudes who behave like porn stars. I
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: don't know how else to say it. Like they've gotten
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: their education from pawn and not from real life experiences,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: so they do things that are very bond study I
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: don't know how Like it's like it's not real, it's
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: very performative. They and they expect and say things that
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: are just like very I don't know how else, Like.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: It's like inauthentic, very, very toxically masculine, I don't know,
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: bordering on violent.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, not that it's just it's it's a mix
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: of all of that. But it's also it's pretending that
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: certain thing is hot, as opposed to just being in
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: the moment and making it hot. Like you know, I
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: don't know how to say it without like being able
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: to be explicit which you're not gonna be.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: We're talking about sex next, so let me finish this
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: game and then we'll get to that. But I get
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: what you're saying, and I agree, Uh, okay. My biggest
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: dating red flag is bad manners.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Bad manners, they are bad manners that really puts me off,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: just like good Man knows really turned me off.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: Have you had a Is there a dating experience that
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: comes to mind where someone was just like ill mannered?
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: No, it's just it's not just that, because I feel
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: like good Man has also lend itself to a little
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: bit too charm m And there's a way that you
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: carry yourself, you know, it's being polite. You can also
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: be a little I don't know, impish, but still playing
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: with the you know, boundaries of what can be considered polite.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: But it's all done classily, So it's just class I
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: don't know. Okay.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: My biggest dating green flag.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Is oh, it is, but it could be an act. No,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: I think you can tell less so authenticity. So I
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: think you can tell when someone's being themselves. So yeah,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: so that would be nice.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: A word that describes my flirting style is oh, I'm.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: Very actually, yeah, I'm very brazen and witty. I would
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: say I'm very brazen, and people at the receiving end
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: of this would know. You would know if I'm interested
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: in you. I make it very obvious. Otherwise you wouldn't
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: know that I'm really not. I'm not playing it KOI
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: I'm not playing shy. If I want someone, I would
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: make it known. No, I would make it not to everybody.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: Everybody would know everybody. Everybody would know. So this person
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: is going after this person. But if if it's just
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: something where I'm because I have this, Okay, I'm going
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: to reveal a bad habit of mine. Sometimes I do
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: flirt for fun, but.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: It's the lovely thing to do. It's not a bad habit.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: But you know, I don't want to do anything. I
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: don't want to take it. I don't want to go
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: have fun. I don't want to take you somewhere and
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: like have a fun experience. Nothing. I just want to
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: float because I don't know. It's just like a weird
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: like trade off of fun energies exactly.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: I say about this on myself stack recently. I think
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: flood is such a wonderful way to communicate.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: I think so too.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: But people shouldn't see it as a means to an end,
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: but an end in itself. Even I agree, but I
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: know it can be misconstrued very easily. But I think
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: it's just like in a moment in time, two people
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: can remind each other that they're attractive, and but that's
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: what I say, and also like just make each other
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: feel seen, go their own way.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: See, that's exactly what I think. But I have been
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: misinterpreted several times. And also because I happen to be
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: very very touchy.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: I know, but but I smoked, I'm not gonna flot
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: with you. Yeah, anyway to be that.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: I happen to be very touchy peely, so people think
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: my regular behavior is also like like, I don't I
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: know if I like you, you know, but if I
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: like you, believe me, everybody and their uncle will know
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: that I like you.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: I love that wear your hat on your sleeve. Okay.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: The first thing I noticed on.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: A date is seeing my answer for everythings, y'all.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: Okay, not that like fingernails or something.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: Hands, this is a random thing, but hands, okay for
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: big hands?
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, we are said that the worst pickup line
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: I've ever heard is, oh I.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: Haven't gotten pickup lines in in real life.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: In your DMS, people boys.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: Keep asking me for my shirts because I really wear cool,
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: just like a dude. Sometimes, so I get most of
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: my dams are filled with man, please tell us where
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: you got the shot? Where you got the shirt? So
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: I get a lot of requests for shots, and the
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: other requests are extremely obscene. So I haven't gotten any polite.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: But cringe pickup lines.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: No, nothing isn't really okay, Zamanna. I don't think people
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: use them anymore.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: I guess maybe just like conversation starters, I guess people
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: use them in their dating app bios maybe sometimes.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: So even those I haven't. I actually prefer like clear
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: direct communication. Also, it's very sexy when someone comes up
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: to you and just says, I find you very attractive
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: out interesting, I would love to take you out for me,
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: or do you know what? Would you? Would you like
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: to go with me?
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: I'm like, please, man, you've got a date.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: Of course I'll go with you. I think that's very
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: clear and diety. Won't you like that?
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't you like clear undirect?
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah? What's what? Did?
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Can do you remember any of your prompts and responses?
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: In your dating app bios like what was your Australia's
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: dating app bio? Like in her twenties versus thirties. I
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: don't remember.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: I really don't. Twenties I was never on my apps
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: though not my d apps. I don't remember.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: If you remind me, maybe I can like two truths
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: and a lie.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Oh no, I never had that, or like this could be.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: Us and you put a picture that none of this? Okay, okay.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: I always go for humor, so it would have been
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: something funny. Most of my stuff is just fitted with jokes. Yeah, guys,
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: I speaking of Go to my Instagram profile. There's a
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: link there. Click on it and please tell Lisa what
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: do you think? Oh? Yeah, what? Yeah?
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: What's going on?
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: I mean you find out whenever this as and whenever
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: people clicks the you know, click on the link, you'll
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: find out what is there.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, I'm gonna go do that till I too. Okay,
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: we're gonna talk about sex now. Sure we've really taken
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: our time to get there. I definitely think for me,
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: sex in my thirties is different than sex in my
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: twenties because I know myself so much better. Would you agree?
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but again I have to credit the men that
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: I've been with. They've we've because at every step of
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: the way in my relationships, we've sort of learned and
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: grown together. So a lot of me getting to know
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: myself is because I've had a lot of help from
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: the other side as well, and there's a lot of comfort.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: I feel like I'm very free and open when it
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: comes to that aspect, and a lot of the credit
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: goes to the man I've been with.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: Honestly, I mean, look at us saying nice things about
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: man shocking, But I do think that men stand to
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: play such a significant role in positive experiences for s
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: for straight women, Like it's unfortunate that women's pleasure stigmatize
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: so much. That actually, for many women, their own understanding
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: of their pleasure and how quickly they're able to prioritize
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: it is c is correlated with how supportive their male
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: partners are. Absolutely, you know, like a through my twenties,
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: I thought that, like, I'm going to experience pleasure if
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: he is invested in my plog, like he has to
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: give me an orgasm. Mm. I feel like I now
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: realize I can give me an orgasm, you know what
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: I mean?
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: I mean we're built unlucky that way, yes, But also
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: know what I mean is like with the.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: W I can instruct this person. I can. But it
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: was def definitely thanks to having lovers who were very
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: invested in my pleasure in my twenties that I learned
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: about my pleasure Cause I didn't and then I used
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: a toy. I learned so much about my pleasure.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: But it's the same thing the other way as well,
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: even for them because a lot of uh, for young men,
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: they get a lot of their knowledge from porn and
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: a lot of it is unhealthy, a lot of it
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: is performative, and it's not like that in real life.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: So most of them, I would imagine, are very bummed
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: out with their first experience. They're like, this is why
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: she's not screaming? Why why am I not driving her
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: into like the throes of madness or something? Right, it's
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: not there. So it happens both the ways. I think
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: both partners can help each other. And again, healthy relationship
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: translates to healthy sex life and which only happens with
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: open communication and if you're honest to take and you
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: not take it so personal and genuinely look at it
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: as like if I'm able to pleasure this person, it's
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: good for me and my ego and it's good for
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: them and vice versa, you know which. Again thanks to
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: the guys I've been with. But like I said, even
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: in my thirties, it's not like I've had bad experiences.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: I've it's it's all been great, some fun ones which
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: are not gonna be for public. It's gonna be for
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: her unfortunately. But yeah, it's like I said, I think
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: if you're looking for sex, it's very much available. If
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: you're looking for love, it's only away. Well I don't
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: know on screen or in books, and even on screen
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: it's not what if.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: You want both raa I do.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: But now I'm very okay with not being able to
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: find that in real life. It's fine.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: We're gonna play another game where we give thirties wisdom
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: to common twenty year old dating conundrum. Okay, they might
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: even be dating conundrums in their thirties, but anyway, thirties wisdom.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: Oh Okay, a guy I just started dating is not
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: texting back, what do I do?
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Stop texting him? It's so simple. You want to be
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: with someone who wants to be with you. The sooner
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: you understand this, the better I agree.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: She says she's not ready for a relationship but wants
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: to keep hanging out. Should I stay I'm okay.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: Then believe what she's saying and see if you want
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: to keep hanging out if you don't, tell her so,
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: and move on. Very practical, and very practically, it's very bad.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: It's funny how when you really like someone your cognition
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: gets a little bit impaired. But it really does.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: Absolutely coo coo bananas. Like I said, everybody knows if
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: I like someone, I call you up about Lisa. I
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: like this person. Okay, bye, But isn't we make us.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: Love is such an incredible project, and we were like,
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: we're willing to embark on this project again and again
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: and again, even though the percentage of failure is so high.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: I think that's nothing like it.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: I think that's incredibly foolish and incredibly beautiful. It is
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: incredibly it's the only magic left in the world. Love
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: and cinema love.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, he's my ex and he's dating someone new, but
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: still sends me memes.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: What should I do? No, I don't respond. Cut it off.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: It's done. Let the ex be in the past, Like
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm saying that being friendly with my exes,
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: but I don't send them memes.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: So no, not every night.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: Also at not every other night. Also no, Okay, let
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: all means, let it be, let it go, let him go.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Wow, I don't know you're saying, Okay, he's my boyfriend,
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: but he refuses to post me on Instagram? Right, talk
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: to him about it or let it go.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: See. I find this a little suspicious because I okay,
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: that depends, because if you're actively on social media, then
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: I find it suspicious that you wouldn't. But if you
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: don't really care about it, then I understand keeping certain
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: parts of your life private, Like are there other aspects
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: of his life that mean a lot to him that
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: he's keeping private? Then fine, Then I don't think it's
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: a problem either way, talk right, clear it out, and
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: then hear what he has to say, and then right
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: again to Lisa, and she will ask someone and they
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: will have advice.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: I have never posted a significant other un social media,
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: so have you not. I don't want to subject this
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: person to like random strangers on the internet. I feel
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: like when your job involves different nuans.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, these are different aspects right, because I I don't
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: post a lot of personal things. Actually, we neither do
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: very cur curated though, because I feel like a lot
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: of myself it's work. Yeah, has already know it's already
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: available for public consumption, so I don't want to be
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: sharing the extra personal things as well.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: Yea, And I would like protect some people from very
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: we've decided to be.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: My family doesn't come on there, and they've explicitly warned me. Also,
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: just don't. Yeah, sometimes I do creep in once orce,
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: but it's still on a story.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: Same. Okay, they're my friend with benefits and now they're
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: catching feelings. Do I run or stay?
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: Ooh? This is tricky, right because I feel like we've
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: all been in this situation. Uh again, My answer to
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: all of these things would generally start with open and
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: honest communication. Talk about it. But I would think that
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: if you're not feeling the feelings that the other person is,
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: then I don't think it's fair for you to stay.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: I think it's fair for you to move on or
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: to see if you want to convert this into a relationship.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: But if you don't, then be honest and give the
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: person a clean break. The dignity of a clean break
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: so much that is, I know so much vise, I
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: love it.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, sriah, this has been so much fun. Before we wrap.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: If thirty mid Thirtiesstraia bumped into twenty year old Stria
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: at a bar, what dating advice would you go back
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: and give her? Oh my god, I don't know, actually,
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: because twenty Straria was dating quite well. Okay, if Twentystria
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: met thirty Astraa at a bar, she'd.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: Be shot because or you know, she might be impressed
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: as like, you know, you're finally cool and children being
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: on your own or whatever. So I don't know. It's
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: a weird juxtaposition of like, you know, situations that I
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: didn't think would be side by side because I didn't
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: think that I my twenties would vanish in uh long
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: term relationships, however deep and loving that they were, and
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: I didn't think my thirties would be benef of them.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: Not that I want to use that particular word, but
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: you know, but I think I wanna extend the top.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: I mean a line that you were saying. I think
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: it's nicer if you make yourself whole, if you find
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: sources of happiness that are not from one person specifically,
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: not your romantic partner. It would be nicer and wise
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: of you no matter what age you are at. That
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: is smart.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: My new benchmark is the person needs to be so
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: lovely that I enjoy spending time with them even more
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: than yourself being by myself because I love being by
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: myself like I love being by myself. But no, this
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: is so much fun. Tray, thank you and thanks for
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: being so frand you.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: Know for a very touching feeling. We've actually restrained ourselves
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: a lot.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: I know we're sitting so far away and child producers instruction,
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: but we shall make up for it when Thanks so
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: much for tuning into Love Matters. As always, we'd love
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: it if you like, share, subscribe, comment, rate this podcast
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: wherever you're listening, Send it to your partners, your exes. No,
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: don't send it your X. You can write into us
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: at Lovematters at DW dot com. Lovematters is produced by
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: the Indian Express and DW Germany's international broadcaster. I am
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: Lisam Angelas and I believe Love Matters