Latest / Deadly Divas True Crime Podcast / Episode 29: Tonda Dickerson

Transcript

Episode 29: Tonda Dickerson · Deadly Divas True Crime Podcast

• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, all you true crime divas and dudes, I'm Tina, and welcome to Deadly Divas, your favorite True Crime podcast.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: It is my favorite.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Sarah.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're new here, thanks for joining us this week.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you are a returning listener, thank you for always as your for your support.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: We're a couple pinha quadas in.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, just a couple.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, Sarah, do you play the lottery?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: On enough.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Not all the time.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not a religious player, and I'll get like a whim to do it every now and then.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like while we're in Florida.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Do you believe in the lottery curse?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you were to hit a big jackpot like$10 million, do you think that you're doomed in some way?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I do and I don't.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that you're automatically doomed, but I think that people that don't grow up with money don't know how to handle it and aren't smart after they win.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: They just go like crazy.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: The first thing I would do is get a financial advisor.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, 100%.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a really good point that I didn't even consider.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, probably because I did grow up piss poor.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's probably why I didn't consider it.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, today, you guys, we are talking about a small town Waffle House waitress who suddenly becomes a multimillionaire overnight.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen this movie, it has Nicolas Cage in it.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Which movie?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Where where he tells the waitress I don't have enough for a tip, but it got a lottery ticket, and if I win, I'll give you half.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then he goes home to his wife and they win, and then he has to explain to her that he's giving the waitress half.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: I am a Nicolas Cage fan, and I don't know what movie this is.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: No! I can't even think what it's called now, and I can picture the girl in it, but I think Rosie Perez plays his wife, and I can't picture who plays the waitress.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's based on a true story.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: You need to put that on your list.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's what it reminded me of waitress that wins the lottery.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: But so yeah, this waitress, she became a multimillionaire overnight, only to end up buried in lawsuits, hunted by her ex-husband, kidnapped at gunpoint, dragged into a battle with the IRS, and nearly killed.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: I do think that the IRS issue comes up very frequently for Lost Trade Bank.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: And after I researched this story, I kind of think that lottery curse could be real.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, we all have that fantasy, right?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: You buy a random scratch-off ticket at a gas station.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe somebody gives you a lottery ticket as a joke or as a gift.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: You put it in your pocket or your wallet or whatever, and maybe even forget about it, but then you absentmindedly check the numbers later that night.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: And suddenly your entire life changes forever in an instant.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: No more stressing over bills, no more checking your bank account before buying groceries, no more waking up early for a job you cannot stand.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Or walking around the grocery store with a calculator.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Have you done that?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: I hate that.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's awful.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Especially because I just hate numbers and math.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: But so yeah, I mean, you've won the lottery, you're rich, you don't have to worry about those struggles anymore.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: And most people imagine that becoming rich instantly solves every problem in your life.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: But what nobody really talks about is how many lottery winners end up in ruin.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: People get sued, robbed, families and friendships implode.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Strangers crawl out of nowhere demanding money.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Family members you didn't know you had.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Long-lost cousin Richard.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Some winners even become addicted to drugs or to gambling.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Some end up isolated.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Now I could see how you could get addicted to gambling if you just won$100 million gambling.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: And some end up dead.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-oh.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: And in today's case, the moment the jackpot hit, the nightmare began.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because there may be no better example of the lottery curse than the absolutely unbelievable true story of Tonda Dickerson.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I have to say that this is one I don't know.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: You're telling me from scratch.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know a thing about it.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know it was a lottery story.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm intrigued.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: So get ready, because this is wild.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's rewind to March of 1999.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: We are in Grand Bay, Alabama, a small town near the Gulf Coast.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say small town, I mean small town.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: The population was only about 4,000 at the time of this story.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Grand Bay was the kind of place where everybody knew everybody, and there honestly wasn't a whole lot going on.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Tonda grew up there with her family.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: They weren't wealthy by any means, but by most accounts, they were close knit.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Her mother was a homemaker and her father worked construction jobs.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Tonda was the middle child.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now, like a lot of people in rural Alabama during the 90s, she was just trying to build a stable life with the opportunities she had available to her.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: At the time, she was in her late 20s and she had been divorced from an abusive husband, and she was raising her young son and working breakfast shifts at a Waffle House right off Interstate 10.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: So she'd had it kind of rough.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you've ever worked in food service before, especially breakfast shifts at somewhere like a Waffle House, you already know how exhausting that life is.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Early mornings, constant customers, long hours on your feet, and low pay.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: And according to reports, Tonda was working around five shifts a week just trying to support herself and her son.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: So this was not somebody living some glamorous lifestyle.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: She was just trying to survive.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Then one customer changes her life forever.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: His name was Edward Seward Jr., a long-haul truck driver who frequently traveled through Florida.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And apparently Edward had this eccentric habit.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever he passed through Florida, he'd buy lottery tickets and hand them out as tips to waitresses he liked.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of cute.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which honestly sounds kind of charming and fun at first, but also random.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of worms.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, gambling was illegal in Alabama at the time of this story.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: So if you wanted lottery tickets, you had to drive out of state to get them, usually into Florida, which meant Edward bringing these tickets back from his routes became this weird little ritual at the restaurant.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: So on March 7th, 1999, Edward bought several Florida lottery tickets like he normally did.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the detail that makes this story way more complicated later on.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Tonda actually wasn't working that day.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: So Edward handed out the tickets to the other waitresses during that shift, but because Tonda wasn't there, he held onto hers overnight.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Then the next morning, Edward came back into the Waffle House for breakfast and finally handed Tonda her envelope containing the ticket.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Which means the lottery drawing had already happened before Tonda had physically received that ticket.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh boy.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to pause the story here for a second and just say how crazy it is that this man had the winning jackpot ticket in his actual possession, did not know it, and gave it away.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: But that is the risk that you take when you're handing out lottery tickets, like party favors, I guess.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I think I guess it's like somebody buying you a scratch card.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: If you do win from it, that was a winner when they handed it to you.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's the thing.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like you just you never know.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, to him, it was nothing dramatic, nothing special.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: He had no idea it was the winning ticket.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was just another tip to a waitress for him.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: At least that's what everybody thought.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because later that day, after her shift ended, Tonda checked the numbers.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: She had worked her normal shift first, pouring coffee, taking orders, doing all the completely ordinary things she'd done hundreds of times before.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Then afterward, she checked the previous night's winning numbers and realized she had just won the Florida Lotto jackpot.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is why you wanted to play it while we're here, isn't it?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was over 10 million dollars.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Can you even imagine that moment?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, genuinely try to picture it.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: One second you're pouring coffee at a waffle house and yelling, smothered, covered, and capped.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: And the next second, you are a multi-millionaire.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now, apparently Tonda became so terrified of losing the ticket that she kept it inside a Ziploc bag underneath her pillow while she slept during the first few days after the win.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, that's me.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would do that.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking I would stuff it in my bra or in a ziploc bag.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's a really good idea, too.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can get it from under my pillow, but every time I get up and go to the bathroom, it's still in my bra.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: I would be paranoid that somebody would steal it at all times.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Tonda, again, she was not living some glamorous life.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: At the time, her car had been stolen.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: So she was driving her mother's vehicle, and she, her boyfriend, and her young son were also living in a trailer on her parents' property.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: And her dream wasn't private jets or mansions in Beverly Hills.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: She just wanted to buy a reliable car and build a nice two-story home for her family.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Now, instead of taking the lump sum payout, Tonda actually made a pretty smart financial decision.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: She chose the 30-year annuity option, which guaranteed her annual payments somewhere between$354 and$375,000 per year.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: Would you choose that option?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because she had long-term financial security, and in the end, it ended up being almost double the money over time.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I would do that in a heartbeat.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: See, I always heard it was best not to, because if you take it all out, you can invest it and make money on it.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: But also what that money's worth now and what it's worth in 30 years' time is a lot less.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, carry on.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's why you get a financial advisor.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: So by by choosing the annual payments instead of lump sum, Tonda would ultimately receive nearly double the money over time.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: At least that's what she thought.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because almost immediately after the win became public, everything started falling apart.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: One of the biggest themes you see in lottery stories is that sudden wealth changes every relationship around you.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Friends change, family changes, co-workers change, even complete strangers start coming out of the woodwork.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: And in Tonda's case, the chaos started almost immediately because four of her fellow Waffle House waitresses sued her.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: The audacity.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: On what grounds?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: They claim that the waitresses had a long-standing verbal agreement.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, if any one of them ever won big from one of Edward Seward's lottery tickets, they would split the winnings equally among the group.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: According to the coworkers, this wasn't just some vague joke they made one time.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: They claimed the agreement had been discussed multiple times over the years whenever Edward handed out lottery tickets.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, this is where the story gets really messy because I can actually understand both sides here.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: On the one hand, if there really was an agreement, I understand why the coworkers felt betrayed.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: But on the other hand, if I'm physically holding a$10 million winning ticket, I don't know if I'm splitting it evenly either.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Not without a written contract, I'm not.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's the thing about money.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Hypotheticals are easy.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like everybody says they'd share, everybody says they'd stay humble.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody says money wouldn't change them.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: But once that money becomes real, everything changes.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: And Tonda completely denied that there was ever any agreement at all.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: So in one hand, they didn't have it in writing, but on the other hand, it's five against one, right?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Four against one, how many five again?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Four against one.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess they've got the numbers on their side, even if they didn't have a written contract.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I think you'd have a hard time with that written contract, no?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you're gonna say Well, you'll see.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: So Tonda, of course, wasn't having that.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: She was basically like, no, this is my ticket, this is my money, period.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: And according to some reports, the co-workers also claimed Tonda initially tried to distance herself from the ticket entirely and allegedly told people she'd gotten the ticket somewhere else, but Tonda denied that too, and the situation escalated quickly.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: The coworkers hired private investigators to follow Tonda and her family around, hoping to uncover information they could use in court.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Jealous much.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine becoming rich overnight and suddenly feeling like people are literally surveilling your life.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: That is terrifying.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And going it up against you.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: And there was another complication.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Tonda had chosen annual payments because over time she'd receive almost double the money, but her coworkers wanted the exact opposite.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: They wanted the immediate lump sum.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Under IRS rules at the time, a lump sum jackpot had to be distributed within a relatively short time frame, about 60 days.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: So the legal battle accelerated almost immediately.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: So the case goes to trial in Mobile County, Alabama.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, what happens next is fucking shocking.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: The jury sides with the coworkers and they deliberated on this for less than one hour.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's because the sympathy is with the co-workers.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: If you're putting yourself in the position, you put yourself in her position, and then you put yourself in the coworkers' position, and it's much easier to identify with the co-worker's position.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't think it's right.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just who they identified with the most.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: I I I thought that too.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: When you live in rural Alabama, and you're, I mean, odds are that you're pissed poor and you don't have a lot of opportunities, and you see something like this, and you're like, well, if my sister or my co-worker won the lottery and didn't share with me, that's pissed.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I get that.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: But also you have to have some integrity, especially when you're on a jury.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like I did not agree with them at all, especially considering there was no concrete proof that there was ever a verbal agreement.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you just can't trust people with money.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just it would have been really easy for the four of them to get together and make that up.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what do you have to lose?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Millions.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Millions.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Two million each.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it it took the jury only about 45 minutes to reach a decision, which honestly had to feel devastating for Tonda after months of fighting.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Less than an hour, which means they pretty quickly believed the other waitresses.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And at one point, Tonda was even offered a settlement deal where she still would have walked away with around$3 million.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, she was offered multiple settlements.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: One proposal reportedly would have given Tonda only 30% of the jackpot while the coworkers divided the remaining 70%.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Another would have allowed her to keep around 40%, but Tonda rejected every single one.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because from her perspective, people were trying to pressure her into surrendering money that belonged to her.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, most people probably would have taken that deal immediately.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: $3 million is still life-changing money, but Tonda refused, like flat out.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, she appealed the ruling.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that decision completely changed everything because eventually the case reaches the Alabama Supreme Court.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the legal reasoning that saves her fortune is honestly incredible.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Tonda's legal team also made another fascinating argument.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Since the lottery drawing had already occurred before Edward physically handed her the ticket, they argued Edward himself may have technically become the legal owner of the winning ticket first, meaning he then gifted the winning ticket directly to Tonda afterward.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: The Alabama Supreme Court overturned the lower court's ruling in February of 2000.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because Alabama law said gambling-related contracts were unenforceable, which is unbelievably ironic.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, the court said that even if there had been a verbal agreement between the waitresses, it legally did not matter.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't have a leg to stand on because gambling's not in Alabama.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right, because agreements involving gambling were void under Alabama law.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: You got it.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: So the exact gambling laws that should have complicated the situation actually ended up protecting Tonda's money, which is honestly insane.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: After months of stress, court battles, and public attention, Tonda wins.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: She keeps the jackpot.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's the end of the story.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Have a great one.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's No, I'm joking.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm joking.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: I hope she moved away from that town and those money grabbing bitches.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: So unfortunately for Tonda, the lawsuits were not over yet.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that becomes really obvious in stories like this is that when people suddenly come into money, everybody starts believing they deserve a cut.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Family members, friends, coworkers, exes, neighbors, sometimes even total strangers.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, I think people mentally spend your money before you even touch it yourself.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Even after the Alabama Supreme Court ruled in Tonda's favor, the chaos still didn't stop.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: About two years after the jackpot win, Edward sued her himself.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Why gift tickets if you're not gonna if you're then gonna get pissy over somebody winning, isn't that what I know, and get this, get this.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Edward sued Tonda because he claimed that Tonda promised to buy him a brand new pickup truck if she won.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, like this sounds like one of those things people casually joke about all the time.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh my gosh, if this wins, I'll totally buy you a truck.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: But apparently Edward took it seriously enough to bring it to court.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: But Edward actually took the argument even further.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: If all he wants is a brand new pickup truck and he gifted me the ticket, and that's not trying to take millions of my millions, I'd probably be okay with that.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'd probably do it anyway.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: However, because this was so messy, and I I don't think that I mentioned this in the story, but Edward actually schemed with those four waitresses who sued her to try to get some of the money to begin with.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: But when that fell through, then he's like, oh, well, I'll just sue her myself.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I understand why she didn't want to do anything to her.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: I understand now, yeah.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, I'm just saying, hadn't all of this not happened in that scenario, if somebody had gifted me a ticket, it ended up winning, and they were like, Oh, I'm so happy for you, I would be like, Is there something you need?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or like, here's a hundred K, you know, whatever.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: That seems totally within reason.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because you wouldn't have it without them.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, carry on.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: But so yeah, Edward, he claimed that the lottery ticket had been a I'm doing air quotes, you guys, a conditional gift.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Gifts are not conditional by very definition.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't a gift then, Edward.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, that was his reason for suing her.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was a conditional gift.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't get his pickup truck, and he's like, Well, you I'm taking my gift back.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Fuck you.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Can't take a gift back.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's a bizarre argument because gifts generally don't come with conditions after the fact.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not a gift.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, thankfully for Tonda, the judge dismissed that case fairly quickly.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: The court ruled that casual promises connected to gifts and gratuities didn't create legally binding contracts.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: So once again, Tonda wins.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and also wasn't it in Alabama.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: So wouldn't his case have been just as the rest because it was Yeah.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: And like you can't hold even even if Tonda did say, Oh yeah, I'm gonna buy you a brand new F one fifty or whatever.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, whenever somebody asks me, like, oh, what do you want for your birthday?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: What do you want for Christmas?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: I always say I want a Mercedes.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Am I actually expecting a Mercedes and am I going to Sarah?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: I would like a Mercedes for my birthday in August.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't get me one, I'm fucking suing you.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna sue me.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: I got it.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: You see, and I'm I'm the kind of pedantic person that in her situation I would have found him the oldest, rustiest, most mileage.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Hasn't worked in years, moss growing up the thing and said, Here's your damn.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, have it towed to his house and just dropped on his front lawn or something.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing that I could go in court and be like, I got him a pickup.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: I held up my end of the bargain.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: What more do you want?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Show me the written details that says it has to be a brand new Ford F150.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, there you go.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: But so yeah, even though the lawsuit was eventually dismissed, it still dragged on for years and continued piling legal fees onto Tonda.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: And during all of this, she was reportedly going through another divorce as well.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Her husband, James, allegedly believed he deserved part of the winnings in the divorce, too.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, like everybody is trying to get in Tonda's pocket.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, but if she was married to him when she won it, that was assets obtained during the marriage.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: He is legally Yeah, and I I get that.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not 100% sure what the laws are in Alabama.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, the details around that were fuzzy because Tonda has remained extremely private, and like I don't blame her.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I would be surprised if he walked away with nothing, but we don't know if he did or not.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: But it was a it was a long legal battle.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: He has he has so so far in this story, he has more of a right to any of the money than any of these other people.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, agreed.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, at this point, I genuinely can't imagine the level of paranoia that Tonda must be living with because suddenly everyone around you becomes a potential threat.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Every interaction feels suspicious.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know who actually cares about you anymore.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: And sadly, the most dangerous threat in Tonda's life wasn't coming from strangers.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was coming from someone she already knew, her ex-husband.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now, before winning the lottery, Tonda had reportedly been in an abusive marriage with a man named Stacy Martin.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: And according to reports, the relationship remained volatile after the divorce, which is sadly extremely common in abusive relationships.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: In many cases, leaving is actually the most dangerous time.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: And apparently, Stacy already had a documented history of harassment and stalking.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, was this somebody she had divorced before she won the lottery?
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: At one point, this ex-husband had reportedly spent time in jail for breaking into Tonda's home.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, just a few months before the kidnapping, Stacy had reportedly been arrested again on burglary charges connected to Tonda's home.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: So there was already a serious pattern of behavior.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Then in February of 2002, everything escalated.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: One morning, Tonda was getting ready for work when Stacy forced his way into her truck at gunpoint.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was around 6:30 in the morning on February 8th, 2002.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Tonda was preparing to leave for work when Stacy forced himself into her pickup truck.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: He kidnapped her and forced her to drive toward an isolated wetland area called Bayou Heron in Mississippi.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: And during the entire drive, he is threatening to kill her, which is obviously horrifying.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, this is the point where the story stops being about money.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now it is about surviving.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because during this drive, Tonda's cell phone rings.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: And Stacy initially would not allow her to answer it.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: But when the phone rang again, Tonda reportedly said, if you don't let me answer this, people are gonna start wondering where I am.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: Slot one.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: And somehow that convinced him.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: And for one single moment, Stacy becomes distracted.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: That tiny distraction changes everything.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Tonda reaches into her purse, but instead of pulling out her phone, she pulls out a 22-caliber handgun.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: When Stacy lunges toward her, she shoots him directly in the chest.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, this sounds like the climax of a thriller movie, but unbelievably, the situation still wasn't over.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Even after being shot, Stacy managed to struggle with her and take the gun away, which is terrifying because at that point, Tonda probably believed that she was gonna die.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: But somehow she stayed calm enough to talk him down.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: And incredibly, she convinced him to let her drive him to the hospital, which not only saved his life, but effectively ended her own kidnapping.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Stacy survived the shooting and Tonda was never criminally charged.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: But weirdly enough, it's still somewhat unclear whether Stacy ever faced major consequences specifically for the kidnapping itself.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: He was, however, reportedly wanted on multiple other charges at the time.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I just genuinely cannot imagine the amount of adrenaline, survival instinct, and emotional control that must have taken because panic could have gotten her killed.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like this woman is cooler than a cucumber.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: To drive him to the hospital, so to voluntarily remain in the vehicle with him after he's threatened to kill you and he's kidnapped you so that you can save his life.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: She's a stella woman.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: She's incredible.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now, after surviving lawsuits, public scrutiny, harassment, and a kidnapping, and death threats.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: You would think Tonda would finally get some peace, right?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because here comes the IRS.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, the IRS may have been her most relentless opponent yet.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Shortly after winning the lottery, Tonda and her family had formed something called Nine Mill Inc., which was an S corporation used to claim the prize money and help her with the tax burden.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Tonda kept 49% ownership of the company and transferred the remaining 51% to family members.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: The IRS argued that this transfer counted as a taxable gift.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: The government basically claimed Tonda had gifted massive amounts of wealth to her relatives and therefore owed gift taxes on those transfers.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: And they slapped her with a tax bill of more than$77,100,000.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that is an insane amount of money.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's basically a million bucks.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: But this is where Tonda's legal team came up with a genuinely brilliant argument.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: They claimed that when Tonda transferred ownership shares to her family, the value of the ticket was still heavily disputed because of all the lawsuits.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, there was still a real possibility she could lose most of the jackpot in court.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: So technically, the ticket wasn't worth its full value at that moment.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: And unbelievably, the U.S.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: tax court system actually agreed.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: The court acknowledged that all the lawsuits and uncertainty surrounding the winnings significantly reduced the ticket's value during that period of time.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: In 2012, the court applied a massive discount to the disputed value of the ticket, which reduced her tax bill by more than 87%.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, the irony here is incredible because at one point Tonda reportedly argued that the transfers to her family weren't really gifts at all, since the family supposedly had a verbal agreement to share money if any of them ever came into wealth.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Which is absolutely then they would have to pay taxes on their portion, not her, right?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but that detail is just absolutely wild considering she'd spent years battling over a verbal agreement.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: But she's kind of dumping her family in there by saying that, because if it's tax gift, she pays the gift tax.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: But if they won a share, they pay the winner's tax, right?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's how it works.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've never won a significant amount of money, but I think that's how it works.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, stories like Tonda's are exactly why people talk about the lottery curse, because sudden wealth does not automatically create happiness.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it creates chaos.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: And there are so many horrifying examples of this.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: Take William Bud Post III.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: That was the one I was thinking of.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was about to say at the end of this, we should really do him.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: So in 1988, he won$16.2 million in the Pennsylvania lottery.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: And within a year, he was already over a million dollars in debt.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: His own brother was later convicted of hiring a hitman to kill him for the inheritance, and eventually Post died broke.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's Evelyn Bliss for a while after.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's why I was thinking of him.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's Evelyn Adams, who somehow won the New Jersey lottery twice during the 1980s.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: She won over$5.4 million total and eventually gambled nearly all of it away.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: And she later ended up living in a trailer park.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: And what makes these stories so fascinating psychologically is that money amplifies whatever problem already exists in your life.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: There's instability, money magnifies it, addiction, money fuels it.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: There's toxic relationships, money exposes those immediately.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: And in Tonda's case, the jackpot didn't create problems out of nowhere.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: It intensified the problems that were already lurking beneath the surface.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: So by the time the lawsuits appeals, taxes, private investigators, attorney fees, and kidnapping were all over, the fortune Tonda originally thought she'd won had been chipped away from almost every angle.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't know exactly how much money she ultimately kept in the end.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, that's her business, but it was clearly nowhere near the$10 million people imagine when they hear lottery winner.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Fortunately, Tonda Dickerson's story doesn't end quite as tragically as some other lottery winners.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Eventually, she stepped away from the spotlight and reportedly worked as a blackjack and poker dealer in Biloxi, Mississippi, which is honestly kind of poetic considering her fortune was protected by anti-gambling laws.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: From Waffle House waitress to millionaire to surviving lawsuits, kidnapping, and the IRS, Tonda Dickerson's story is genuinely one of the wildest examples of the lottery curse I've ever come across.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it proves something important.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Winning the jackpot is not the end of the story.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's only the beginning.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want to take a minute to brag about Tonda because this woman went through hell and back, and she still kept her work ethic.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like during the whole lawsuit with the initial four waitresses, she went to a different Waffle House and she was still working at Waffle House as a server.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: And she's, as far as we know, still a blackjack dealer now.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people would have never worked again.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, her tenacity, I cannot imagine going through everything that she did with my sanity still intact.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think she learned a lesson here too, which a lot of people who hit it big do not seem to.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: She did not really appear on a lot of media once the lawsuits were settled and everything was squared away.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: She did not write a book.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: She didn't sell her rights for a movie.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: All of these things that she could have done that would have been very profitable.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now that did make researching this case a bit difficult.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I will not hold that against her.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Good decision, Tonda.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: She took what was left of her money and kept a low profile, and it was a good, smart decision.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I I really hope that she is living her best life now.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that her son is too.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because he ha he went all through all of that with her.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think now you actually can remain anonymous.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas you I think it's state by state.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so it there were fewer fewer further between.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas now there's so many people winning all the time that I think you can never be in the media.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: You can choose to remain anonymous.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what I would choose to know if I had the choice.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: There'd be a choice view people in my close circle that would know.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: But that would be it.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the number of people that I would tell, you can count that number on one hand.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: I figured.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I would even be nervous about that.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: So the Nicolas Cage movie is called It Could Happen to You.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: I have not seen that.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: It is based on a true story.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: He's a New York cop, and Bridget Fonda plays the waitress.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: But it that gets kind of the same kind of nasty.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was watching a movie with Bridget Fonda last week with my friend.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: And we were like, whatever happened to Bridget Fonda?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because she just kind of fell off the earth.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: She stopped acting in like maybe the 90s or early 2000s.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's odd.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's what a coincidence that was.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Was it single white female that you were watching?
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: She's in there.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: It was like that recently.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: I did.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: It was like placid, I think.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, um, yeah.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: Any final thoughts on Tonda Dickerson before we go to the after show?
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so there is another one that I'm thinking of that I'll have to dig up.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was another guy that won.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: And he disappeared for his time and turned up dead.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so we have to look into that one too.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: But all kinds of like crazy stuff happened as a result of him winning.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: So and it's it's amazing how many people as well that win the lottery that commit suicide.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh it's really sad, really unfortunate.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it just goes to show like money will magnify any problems that are already there.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd still like to give it a go.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, yeah, definitely.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I hope that I would be like make smart decisions like Tonda did after the chaos.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of that stuff that happened early on wasn't because of her lack of yeah, it wasn't her fault.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: It was unfortunate, yeah.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was people that saw money and they were willing to do whatever.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: People are jealous and people are greedy.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like the the current husband, the ex-husband, it's all jealousy.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, all jealousy.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh that bitch, what does she ever do to win that money?
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: And with the ex-husband, abusive partners don't want to see that person happy.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: And even though they were divorced, I think her winning the lottery was probably what turned him back into um focusing on her was because he didn't want to see her happy.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: So what do you guys think?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Is the lottery curse real?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Or does it just amplify the problems that you already have in your life?
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Let us know.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for subscribers, we will see you in the after show.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not a subscriber, we will see you next week with Drew Peterson.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: With Drew Peterson.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: The last of the Peterson Trifecta.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: Until then.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Triple crown.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: The Triple Crown.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: All right, until then, be divas.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: But not be deadly.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.