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LIVE from WriterCon 2025: The Joy of Writing · WriterCon

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  Speaker 1: This week on the writer Con podcast, I would just.
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  Speaker 2: Tell you to not quit under any circumstances. I would
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  Speaker 2: tell you to keep.
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  Speaker 3: You know, when you love your project, it's hard to
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  Speaker 3: solve writing it, and so don't try to write somebody
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  Speaker 3: else's project. Don't try to write the trend. Write what
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  Speaker 3: you love and the books you want to see come
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  Speaker 3: into the world.
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  Speaker 1: Welcome to writer Con, a gathering place for writers to
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  Speaker 1: share their knowledge about writing and the writing world. Your
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  Speaker 1: hosts are William Bernhardt, best selling novelist and author of
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  Speaker 1: the Red Sneaker books on writing, and Laura Bernhardt, Award
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  Speaker 1: winning author of the want Ln Files book series.
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  Speaker 4: Thank you, Jesse Ulrich. Hey, they're writers. We are recording
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  Speaker 4: live from writer Con twenty twenty five. We are having
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  Speaker 4: a great time. We have record attendants this year, filling
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  Speaker 4: the halls of the scurb in Hilton. We have a
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  Speaker 4: sixty speakers and over one hundred different breakout sessions. We
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  Speaker 4: got people from twenty two different states and even some
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  Speaker 4: foreign countries like New Zealand, exhibitors, sponsors. We've had breakout
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  Speaker 4: sessions and roundtables and we're not quite done yet. This
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  Speaker 4: afternoon at three were playing writer con Jeopardy always the highlight,
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  Speaker 4: or at least for me. No, the highlight was last
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  Speaker 4: night doing karaoke. I think, yes, yes, Lara, I knew
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  Speaker 4: you had a beautiful singing voice. But are you impressed
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  Speaker 4: as impressed as I am about how many talented seekers,
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  Speaker 4: singers we have within this supposedly introverted group of writers.
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  Speaker 5: I get blown away every year, and it's always the
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  Speaker 5: quiet ones. They come out and sing and you just
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  Speaker 5: get blown away. I love it. We have such a
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  Speaker 5: talented group of people with.
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  Speaker 4: Us and Jesse. As you know, we are back, actually
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  Speaker 4: after an absence, back at the Scurvi in Hilton. How
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  Speaker 4: are you enjoying the new venue? Oh?
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  Speaker 1: I love the new venue except for two very important facts. One,
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  Speaker 1: the hot tub is gone, just gone. And secondly, and
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  Speaker 1: most importantly, in my room was not one, not two,
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  Speaker 1: but three James Patterson novels. Three How dare they? And
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  Speaker 1: in the spirit of this conference, and you know what
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  Speaker 1: AI tools we should and should I use? I made
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  Speaker 1: a little video about what I feel about having three
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  Speaker 1: James Patterson novels in my room, So I hope you enjoy.
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  Speaker 1: It's short. There we go.
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  Speaker 4: Is there a hobbit inside?
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  Speaker 1: The trash can, the book pops up. Yeah, her arm
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  Speaker 1: goes server of course, into the trash can.
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  Speaker 4: Beautiful.
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  Speaker 5: It's just it's just demonstrating that you just can't get
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  Speaker 5: rid of them. They think it's like your's like your
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  Speaker 5: Monkey's Podjess.
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  Speaker 1: It's true. Yeah, just James Parrison finds me everywhere I go. James,
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  Speaker 1: I know you're watching. I know your people are watching.
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  Speaker 1: I'm coming for you.
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  Speaker 4: For those of you who don't listen to the podcast,
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  Speaker 4: this is a long standing feud, but I'm not going.
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  Speaker 1: To go in one directional feud that I'm trying. I'm
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  Speaker 1: just trying to guess people to respond because I would
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  Speaker 1: help our numbers.
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  Speaker 4: So right, Well, today we are doing a joint interview
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  Speaker 4: with both of our keynote speakers at Ryder Con. And
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  Speaker 4: that's the author of the best selling novel Mask of
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  Speaker 4: the Dear Woman. That's Laurie L. Dove and last night's
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  Speaker 4: keynote Nova McBee, the author of the young adult Calculated series.
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  Speaker 4: They are both waiting and I are all ready to
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  Speaker 4: be interviewed and I can't wait to do that. But
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  Speaker 4: first the.
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  Speaker 1: News I worked it in this year. Here we go.
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  Speaker 1: Hold on got to hit play again.
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  Speaker 4: News story number one. Now I should explain that since
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  Speaker 4: this is writer con I you know, for once, no Amazon,
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  Speaker 4: no AI, We're going to focus on fun things in
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  Speaker 4: the writing world. Okay, so news story number.
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  Speaker 1: One, Hold on, did we want to bring our guests
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  Speaker 1: on for the new stories?
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  Speaker 5: Oh?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, Laurie, our guests come on up here. So
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  Speaker 4: news story number one. I'm pretty proud of this. Wait
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  Speaker 4: for this. People are replacing speed dating with read dating.
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  Speaker 4: All right. Last time you remember, we reported on people
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  Speaker 4: forming audiobook writing clubs. Now we're seeing this whole new
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  Speaker 4: form of social interaction for diehard introverted readers, the read dating,
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  Speaker 4: which makes perfect sense to me because, after all, as
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  Speaker 4: everybody in this room knows, reading is sexy, right, That's right.
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  Speaker 2: That's a brilliant idea.
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  Speaker 4: And who wants to date somebody who doesn't read? I mean,
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  Speaker 4: for peoples sake. So Jess Evans, the founder of Bova,
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  Speaker 4: thought gen Z was getting kind of bored with dating apps,
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  Speaker 4: so she curated something for book levers. The idea is
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  Speaker 4: to gather people in someplace, usually a bookstore, and tell
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  Speaker 4: them to bring a copy of their favorite book, hand
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  Speaker 4: it out, perhaps with your phone number scrawled in the
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  Speaker 4: front of the book. Give it to someone and you know,
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  Speaker 4: see if you hit it off. So you've met someone,
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  Speaker 4: you've mingled, and perhaps you like the same kind of books,
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  Speaker 4: so you can connect with one another. Right. We're also
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  Speaker 4: seeing the emergence of reading retreats book weekends. There's a
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  Speaker 4: group called page Break in New York, an organization that's
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  Speaker 4: organizing these reading retreats at upscale boats boutique New York hotels,
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  Speaker 4: promising to leave readers well read and well fed. See
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  Speaker 4: I did it again. Did you see that? Okay? What
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  Speaker 4: makes page Break unique? Now this is different. You remember
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  Speaker 4: on the audio book walking clubs, people may be listening
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  Speaker 4: to different books at the same time. But in these groups,
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  Speaker 4: people are sharing the same book. They're all reading the
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  Speaker 4: same thing. And what I thought was particularly unique is
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  Speaker 4: that a lot of it is in group sessions where
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  Speaker 4: they actually take turns reading the book out loud. According
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  Speaker 4: to founder Mikey Friedman, quote, a magical thing happens when
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  Speaker 4: we all actively listen to one another. It really enhances
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  Speaker 4: the way you experience a book. Friedman has also been
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  Speaker 4: inspired by the mental health benefits of reading together. So
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  Speaker 4: what do you think Team Laura, assuming you were not
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  Speaker 4: already blissfully happily married, is this something you can see
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  Speaker 4: yourself doing?
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  Speaker 5: While it's very difficult to envision that world of not
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  Speaker 5: being blissfully married, it's pretty easy to see the appeal
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  Speaker 5: of this. If I could connect with other avid readers,
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  Speaker 5: I think that would be a good thing to do.
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  Speaker 5: I've often wondered what do people do when you are
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  Speaker 5: out of school, out of college? How do you meet
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  Speaker 5: other people your own age? I mean, at some point
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  Speaker 5: the bar sounds like the worst possible idea, and you
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  Speaker 5: don't want to meet somebody at a bar like that.
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  Speaker 5: I think this is brilliant.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, Jesse, how about you? I bet you've seen
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  Speaker 4: Roman's Bloom at Star Trek gatherings. Why not bookstore?
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  Speaker 1: So here's my problem with this, especially what they're reading
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  Speaker 1: a loud part, which is like I reaal a lot
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  Speaker 1: of fantasy novels where I discover, after talking to people
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  Speaker 1: who've listened to the audiobook that I'm pronouncing every name
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  Speaker 1: and place wrong. I would look real, real stupid, and
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  Speaker 1: I don't want to do that, even though I have
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  Speaker 1: no problem reading in public. But no, I love this.
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  Speaker 1: This is just like a way of finding similar interests
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  Speaker 1: and just like making it slightly more directive than it
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  Speaker 1: would be otherwise. But if someone did give me their
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  Speaker 1: number in a James Harrison book, I would instantly throw
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  Speaker 1: it away.
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  Speaker 4: So that's useful. You've learned something right.
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  Speaker 2: You can rule people out that way so quickly. Yes,
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  Speaker 2: that makes perfect sense. Well as far as reading aloud,
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  Speaker 2: there is a group that every year reads Moby Dick aloud.
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  Speaker 2: It takes twenty four hours and they all take turns.
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  Speaker 2: They stay up all night to do it. There's a
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  Speaker 2: whole culture built around it, and I have to admit
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  Speaker 2: I think that's the only way I could finish. That's
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  Speaker 2: one book I've never finished. That is hard.
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  Speaker 5: More commitment right there.
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  Speaker 4: The nice thing about that is that you could listen
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  Speaker 4: during the chapters that pertained to the plot and then
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  Speaker 4: go get a sandwich during the other ones about whaling historian.
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  Speaker 1: Books within books a fish sandwich.
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  Speaker 4: I assume no thoughts.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's a great idea if you
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  Speaker 3: don't know where to meet people, and books are some
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  Speaker 3: of your favorite things. And I know it's taking book
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  Speaker 3: clubs to the next level. And some of the book
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  Speaker 3: clips I have been at have gone extremely deep to
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  Speaker 3: the point where we're taking We're talking about a fantasy story,
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  Speaker 3: but everybody's relating it to the deepest.
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  Speaker 2: Parts of your life.
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  Speaker 3: So you can actually get to know people pretty well
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  Speaker 3: if you're talking books. And so I love books. I
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  Speaker 3: didn't know how much my husband liked books when we married.
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  Speaker 3: I knew he read books like that was a requirement,
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  Speaker 3: but we ended up reading so many of the same
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  Speaker 3: books together our first few years of marriage, loving it,
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  Speaker 3: talking about it, reading them out loud, discussing.
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  Speaker 4: We still discuss books.
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  Speaker 3: Today and he's one of my major critique partners as well.
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  Speaker 1: He's also a fabulous writer.
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  Speaker 3: So I think it's great. I mean, if readers can
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  Speaker 3: hook up with each other, that some of that are
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  Speaker 3: going to be writers and they're going to need a
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  Speaker 3: partner who loves books.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's fun. Okay. News story number two, which is
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  Speaker 4: not entirely dissimilar, company called Hidden Door has launched a
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  Speaker 4: literary role playing platform. Here's the idea. It's a technology studio,
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  Speaker 4: Hidden Door, and they've opened this bookish role playing platform
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  Speaker 4: that promises fans of popular books Pride and Prejudice, the
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  Speaker 4: Wizard of Oz, what have you and give them an
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  Speaker 4: immersive entertainment experience. These kind of choose your own adventure
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  Speaker 4: style storytelling formats so you get to actually enter the world,
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  Speaker 4: I mean in your imagination. You enter the world of
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  Speaker 4: your favorite books, as inspired of course by tabletop role
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  Speaker 4: playing games, and uses a mix of machine there Shout
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  Speaker 4: out for UH uses a mix of machine learning technology
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  Speaker 4: and collaborating with the publishers to give fans and this
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  Speaker 4: is a quote to allow them to explore, expand and
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  Speaker 4: remix fictional canons. Jesse, I know whose world you don't
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  Speaker 4: want to enter, but what you would play around in
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  Speaker 4: OZ or something?
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  Speaker 1: Listen for all of us who are of a certain
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  Speaker 1: age and were raised on both The Wizard of Oz
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  Speaker 1: and then it's Seql returned to Oz. The answer the
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  Speaker 1: question is absolutely not. It's terrifying. Most fantasy and sci
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  Speaker 1: fi realms, unless you're in the main story, are horrible
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  Speaker 1: places to live and I do not want to go there.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, unless unless there was one that just let
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  Speaker 1: me hang out in the shire Soromon taking it over. Yes, great, Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: the rivende riven Dell. I think I get tired of
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  Speaker 1: Rivendell for about six hours. I feel like it's gonna
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  Speaker 1: beautiful and then I'm gonna be bored very quickly. But yeah,
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  Speaker 1: like I don't I see the appeal of this. I
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  Speaker 1: think there's interesting places this could go. But if you
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  Speaker 1: really like dig deep into any of these places, you're like, actually,
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  Speaker 1: you know, it's like a like pseudo fascist state that
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  Speaker 1: I don't want to live in. Or you know there's
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  Speaker 1: no technology, or the food is terrible, or you know,
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  Speaker 1: we're all gonna die.
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  Speaker 4: So nobody's gonna pick nineteen eighty four for their numbers
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  Speaker 4: of experience.
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  Speaker 1: Jesse, listen, I mean, let's listen. We could break this down.
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  Speaker 1: But if we're talking Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Oz, like,
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  Speaker 1: if you're just living in those in those worlds at
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  Speaker 1: the time the main story is going on, and you
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  Speaker 1: don't have any magical protective powers, you are in Trouble
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  Speaker 1: or Hunger.
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  Speaker 3: Games for example, Yeah, it's not a great Yeah, who
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  Speaker 3: wants to live in the Hunger Games?
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  Speaker 1: The people in the Hunger Games don't want to live
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  Speaker 1: in the.
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  Speaker 2: Hunger Although I would love to be that handy with
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  Speaker 2: a bow and arrow, so I'm in. I'm in because
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  Speaker 2: I would like to try those skills out.
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  Speaker 4: Laura, what about you, something involving dragons or vampires or
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  Speaker 4: what literary environment would you choose If it.
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  Speaker 5: Was something like that, I'm going to go with Alice
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  Speaker 5: in Wonderland. That would be fun with the singing terrifying.
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  Speaker 4: This is a book where fictional characters are constantly making
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  Speaker 4: threats of either decapitation or cannibalism.
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  Speaker 5: But sure, whatever, you just have to avoid the Red Queen.
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  Speaker 5: That's true. Otherwise, something where I get to pet a
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  Speaker 5: lot of animals, where animals aren't scared. I guess that
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  Speaker 5: would be more like Narnia.
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  Speaker 4: Narnia, Yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, no or well books allowed.
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  Speaker 5: Visit, revisit. Jesse's response, please animal Farm, yikes.
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  Speaker 1: Love the book, do not want to live there?
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  Speaker 4: All right? One last news story, Steve King, you've heard
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  Speaker 4: of him. I bet and Benjamin Percy are writing a
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  Speaker 4: novel as a newspaper. So Benjamin Percy is a successful
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  Speaker 4: author of many genres and forms, and he's going to
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  Speaker 4: serialize his next novel in the form of a newspaper.
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  Speaker 4: It's going to be called The End Times. It'll be
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  Speaker 4: serialized over the course of a year, both in print
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  Speaker 4: and digital forms, and will include contributions from Stephen King
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  Speaker 4: for a reason, because this book is basically set in
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  Speaker 4: the same universe as The Stand, another place you probably.
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  Speaker 1: Wouldn't choose to go, Absolutely not.
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  Speaker 4: They say part of the motivation is to get people
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  Speaker 4: off their screens, although I notice they're doing a digital
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  Speaker 4: edition as well as print, and to celebrate the importance
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  Speaker 4: of journalism. They've said that for every subscription over five hundred,
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  Speaker 4: they will donate a dollar to the ACLU. So, Jesse,
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  Speaker 4: I know you've read The Stand or Suspect as much.
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  Speaker 4: Are you going to subscribe to this newspaper thing.
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  Speaker 1: I'd be curious about it, Like it's sort of like
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  Speaker 1: a retro return to like how the books like Moby
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  Speaker 1: dickwa released where they were you know, they were serialized,
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  Speaker 1: So this would be this would be an interesting experiment
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  Speaker 1: to see for sure. I'll check it out.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, Laura, how about you.
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  Speaker 1: Don't want to live there?
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  Speaker 4: Well?
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  Speaker 2: I love the experimentation with form, but like you mentioned,
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  Speaker 2: that was really the way our first what we know
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  Speaker 2: is an American epic novel was given to us as readers,
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  Speaker 2: and so I love that return to it, and unlike
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  Speaker 2: some of my favorite Stephen King books, I hope it
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  Speaker 2: has the satisfying ending.
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  Speaker 4: Oh, we're going to get burned by all the top
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  Speaker 4: best sellers when this podcast is coming for you.
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  Speaker 2: Stephen y'all started it with the James Patterson and now
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  Speaker 2: I'm I'm just jumped on this, babe.
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  Speaker 4: We blame Jesse. But but James, if you're listening, you're
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  Speaker 4: invited to come.
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  Speaker 1: But on the podcast again, we make fun of James
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  Speaker 1: because he doesn't actually write his books. That's the whole point.
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  Speaker 1: So if you're a real author, you're welcome to come
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  Speaker 1: on this podcast.
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  Speaker 4: Boom, were you trying to say something there?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I think it's pretty genius because right now there
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  Speaker 3: is a trend in the reading industry where you have
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  Speaker 3: substack and they're in stuff places like that where they
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  Speaker 3: are starting to release in this serial type way, and
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  Speaker 3: they're jumping on a trend with their huge audience already.
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  Speaker 3: And I have lived twenty years around the world, and
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  Speaker 3: I would say a lot of countries operate like this.
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  Speaker 3: They're releasing chapter by chapter, they're hooking people, and then
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  Speaker 3: they're starting to pay for those chapters afterwards. So I
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  Speaker 3: think it's pretty genius. I don't know if I'll be
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  Speaker 3: checking it out because that's not exactly the genre that
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  Speaker 3: I read, but I will.
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  Speaker 1: Pay attention to it. Yeah, and see how it goes.
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  Speaker 3: I want to see the buzz that it gets and
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  Speaker 3: if it catches on, and if he's catching traction, because
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  Speaker 3: that's really interesting to me.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's fun to see people experiment. Laura thoughts.
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  Speaker 5: I think it takes somebody of his caliber to you
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  Speaker 5: kind of lead the way as you're talking about this
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  Speaker 5: new and creative form of delivering reading material to their audiences.
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  Speaker 5: And I think I like it. I like that he's
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  Speaker 5: leading the charge and he's taking that popularity and creating
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  Speaker 5: something fabulous for everybody with it. I think it's a
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  Speaker 5: good idea.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, good news stories today. All right, let's move on
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  Speaker 4: to the interviews and talk to Laurie l Dove and
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  Speaker 4: Nova mcbe Laurie and Nova, thank you for being on
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  Speaker 4: the pod. Of course you've been on the podcast before,
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  Speaker 4: but thank you for being here at writer Con. We
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: were really excited to have you here. Now you both
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  Speaker 4: know because you've answered it before. What my first question
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  Speaker 4: always is if you could give writers one piece of advice. So,
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  Speaker 4: since you've both been on before, I guess I should
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  Speaker 4: say and then if you were going to give them
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  Speaker 4: a second piece of advice, what would it be, Laurie.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I would just tell you to not quit under
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  Speaker 2: any circumstances. I would tell you to keep going.
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  Speaker 3: And I mean last night at my keynote, I gave
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  Speaker 3: a lot of advice on craft, learning, craft and industry,
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  Speaker 3: and I just want to tag onto that with new
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  Speaker 3: advice is you know, when you love your project, it's
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  Speaker 3: hard to stop writing it, and so don't try to
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  Speaker 3: write somebody else's project. Don't try to write the trend.
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  Speaker 3: Write what you love and the books you want to
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  Speaker 3: see come into the world.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, great advice. Nova. Last night we heard you give
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  Speaker 4: her Last afternoon, we heard you give a terrific keynote address,
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  Speaker 4: and Laurie, no pressure. But you're on this afternoon. This
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  Speaker 4: is probably not appropriate when we're actually at writer Con.
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  Speaker 4: But how has your writer Con experience been so far? Oh?
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  Speaker 3: It's been fabulous. You guys have just an amazing job
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: of setting up everything. I've been so impressed, right, yes,
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, from the WOVA app to the breakout sessions,
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: to the organization, to the just the general joy that
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: you guys have set and the whole place, the people
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: who are friendly, asking questions, devouring information. I have heard
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: nothing but good things. It has been a phenomenal success,
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: so thank you for letting us be part yest.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: I completely agree with this. I feel like I have
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: entered a new family and a new set of friends,
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: and book people are the best people. So I'm so
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: excited to.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: Be here with you and the diversity of the classes.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: You have not just done books, but you've covered writing
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: in all different ways, and it is you have experts
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: of all kinds here and I've really enjoyed seeing the
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: A to Z type of things that you have offered.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, so so much value.
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: Thank you now, Laurie. I know you've been writing for
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: a while. You've got I think eight nonfiction books, yes,
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: but now you've published your first novel, Mask of the
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: Dear Woman, and it has become a huge bestseller. That
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: must be a good feeling, right.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: It is such a good feeling because I took nov
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: As advice before we even met, and I wrote the
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: book that I wanted to write, and I wasn't sure
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: what kind of book it was or where it would
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: end up. And it is such a good feeling to
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: know that people are reading it and it's resonating with
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: them in some way.
• 20:37
  Speaker 5: Oh, that's the best feeling. Mask of the Deer Woman
• 20:40
  Speaker 5: is such a great title, but like, what does that mean?
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Well? Yes, so in the book there is literally a
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: mask of a deer woman, and there is also a
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: myth of the deer woman that exists in many cultures
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: across many indigenous communities. And since the book came out,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: I've actually met several people who have seen dear women.
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, so that's been very exciting for me.
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: Very cool.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: But Nova, you write in the Ya field and you're
• 21:14
  Speaker 5: up to your third book now in this series? Right, calculated?
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: Was there a third one? How's your experience been? How's
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: that going?
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: My experience has also been awesome. I've written lots of
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: novels before this, and this series was such a surprise series.
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: It came out of me and I was very surprised
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: by the series. It wasn't what I usually read and
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: write and it, as you guys know from the keynote
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: last night, a lot of people were like, this is
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: this is a global story that needs to be told,
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: and so a lot of the early feedback was like,
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: this is a character people are going to want to follow.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: This is a series, this is a franchise. You can't
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: stop writing. So technically, the fourth book is done and
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: I'm complaining to come out, and there are so many
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: spin offs that I could do that people are encouraging,
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: and yet I am, you know, behind the scenes, finishing
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: a lot of different novels, and so there's a lot
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: to come. I've loved the Young Adults world because you
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: get to explore all of these these really deep topics
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: and yeah first you know, yeah, and explore identity and
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: purpose in books, which I love.
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: Now. As the title suggests of the first book, Calculated,
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: this series involves math and numbers and other stuff I
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: find mostly baffling. How do you get non mathletes interested
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: in these?
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: So I didn't think about that when I wrote A
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: math Prodigy, And I've talked about this on numerous podcasts
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: where I'm like, after I decided she was a math
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: prodigy and it was already more or less written, I'm like,
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: why have I done this? Because it's so hard writing
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: a genius? And thankfully I did a lot of research
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: and took my time, and people now think I'm a
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: gen Yes, we're just.
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: Like, yeah, no.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: I've literally been in interviews where they're like, so, you
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: are a prodigy, right, I'm like, I wish that like
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: gave me five hundred headaches, lots of research, you know,
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: lots of frustration, but you do not need math for
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: this book at all. The way her math gift is
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: it is a supernatural way of seeing the world through
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: this math and what she can calculate all around her,
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: even from the tiniest thing to if someone is about
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: to touch her to the massive economic things going on
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: in the world. She can predict all of these things.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: And the fun thing about this gift that I did
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: not know what happened was that people are like, now
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: I pretend I'm Joe Rivers. I walk around. I did
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: a hike the other day, and I was like, I
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: was pretending to be her with every step of the way.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: And I have people mimicking it. And I have librarians
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: and teacher saying you are revolutionizing math and you're making
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: it cool, but you do not need math.
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: It is.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: And then the feedback of people saying I will never
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: see the world the same again, and that is so
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: powerful to have. You know, what I thought of was
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: as a whim use a math gift turned into something
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: so much more beautiful, deep and amazing.
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: So it's not easy.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I can attempt writing prodigies again.
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and now you've got a movie that's in like
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: pre production, right, talk about that a minute.
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: Yep, it's in pre production. I have amazing producers who
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: have all set their minds and they looked at the
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: whole series and loved it, and they said this is
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: this is a franchise. And when I heard that first word,
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: I was like, WHOA, Okay, I accept I accept that.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: But they have put incredible work into building the world
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: and the way the math gift is portrayed, just getting
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: all of those characters set up for the franchise. They've
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: really taken their time. It's in pre production. The scripts
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: are written, they're in conversation. There should be announcements soon.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: It's been incredible to see people take what's inside your
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: head that became up on paper and now take it
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: in a whole other format. It's been an incredible honor.
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: That's fantastic. All Right. I'm going to ask you both
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: about things you've learned along the way during your writing journey,
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: and just to balance it out. You can talk about
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: things you've learned the good way, and you can talk
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: about mistakes. Let's not say mistakes, let's say learning experiences
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: that you've had along the way. Laurie, tell me something
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: you've learned during your many years of writing.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: Well, one thing that has really stood out for me.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: I was a career journalist for about thirty years and
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: before I made this transition to fiction, and one of
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: the things that has really stood out for me is
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: how different fiction writing has been from the rest of
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: my career. And while that was in some ways very
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: solitary and that was fine with me, fiction I am
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: finding that I need events like this to carry me
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: through to the next event when we can all get
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: together at writers That feeling of community, of shared struggle
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: and shared success that has been the most sustaining thing
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: for me in making this transition.
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: Beautiful. What about you, Nova, What have you learned since
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: you started writing? Laurie and I were talking about.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: This before we got up here, and you have learned
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: so much by our point, where like we have, there's
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: so many lessons it's almost like you can't even remember
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: how much you've learned. There's so much to this industry
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: that you are. You're almost always learning, and you're kind
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: of like in a state of learning because things change.
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: But I agree with Louri starting out, you want the
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: right partners, you want the right supporters, you want the
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: right critique partners. You want the right community because it
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: can sustain you when those hard times come and when
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: those mistakes do come, and you have people in your
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: ear saying that mistake's not going to kill your career.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: I know that social media post, I know that marketing
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: thing was a huge flop, but you know those people
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: that are sustaining I again, I've learned to really take
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: on like what I believe in, Like I want to
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: write what I believe in. I want to do my
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: research before signing deals with people and working on deadlines,
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: not having them too close. And I've learned a lot
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: of lessons where you know, my first publisher said, hey,
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: how about we have the deadline for your second book
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: the day after your first book launches. Me and my ignorance,
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: I was like, sure, worst idea on the planet. And
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: I've learned, no way do you have a deadline right
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: next to your book release, because there's so much to
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: do when your book is about to release that you
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: don't have a deadline anywhere near that, And so I've learned.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: You learn as you go and you make notes.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: You know. That's funny because I did the exact same
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: thing and they tried to stop me. They were like,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: are you sure that you want to because Mask of
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: the Dear Woman is now a series, And they said,
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: are you sure you want to send us the second
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: book right when you're there is releasing it. I was
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: like absolutely, Like I can do deadlines, and I was
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: so wrong.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: There's so much marketing that goes into it that I
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: had to be like, is my deadline more important or
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: is my marketing for this book? And I had to
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: sacrifice certain parts. I was so stressed and it was
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: my first book deal that I focused, I need to
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: turn in the deadline because I need I need them
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: to know I'm I'm I can reach deadlines. And so
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: that was a very interesting lesson. But we have loads
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: of those lessons.
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: After the huge success of Mask of the Deer Woman.
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: I'm betting your publisher is asking, so what's next and
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: how soon can we bring it out? So what is next?
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm very excited that it is now a series,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: and so we'll have more issues of Mask of the
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: Deer Woman. The second book in the series releases Fall
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: of twenty twenty six, and I'm also working on a
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: standalone and additional books in the series, and scripting a
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: streaming platform series that could go along with that as well.
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: Terrific Ova. I think you just mentioned of fourth book
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: in the series. What's coming next from you?
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the fourth book. It does not have a release
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: date yet, to a very great disappointment of my readers,
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: who I get dms all the time, because we are
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: waiting for movie News to have a very significant time
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: to release that book. But I have written two other
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: books that are now on submission, and I am polishing
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: up a fantasy series that I wrote as well.
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: Fantastic kay, both of you. Laurie Nova, thank you so
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: much for being on the podcast, and especially thank you
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: for being a huge part of writer Con twenty twenty five.
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: Really appreciate it.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: Thank you for inviting us.
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: Just a few parting words. I'm sorry to tell you,
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: but if you're listening to this at home, you have
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: missed writer Con twenty twenty five. But guess what, there
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: will be another one in twenty twenty six during Labor
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: Day weekend, which next year will be September fourth through seventh,
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: So start making your plans now. Let me also remind
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: you that writer Con has a free newsletter that goes
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: out every month full of interesting articles about writing and
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: news about what's happening in the world of publishing, an
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: agents and whatnot. Go to substack search for writer Con,
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: subscribe to the newsletter. Like I said, it's completely free.
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: And if after the podcast and the newslet you still
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: want more and you know who doesn't, go to Facebook
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: and join the writer con Face group. Facebook group and
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: obviously free, and somebody's posting something interesting there virtually every day,
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: So come join the fun. All right, until next time,
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: Remember keep writing. You cannot fail if you refuse to quit.
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: All right, See you next time.