Latest / Skin Anarchy / Fashion Friday Exclusive ft. Nadja Sayej - Author, Celebrity Journalist & Writer

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Fashion Friday Exclusive ft. Nadja Sayej - Author, Celebrity Journalist & Writer · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
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• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, welcome back.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: I just wanted to give a huge shout out to Nadja for doing this wonderful episode with us.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: This is our second Fashion Friday episode, and this is really a PSA for anyone listening who is in the fashion realm, who is the fashion photography realm, anyone who knows celebrity, is a celebrity, um, you know, anything like that has to do with fashion.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: Any designers, any butting designers, any anyone who works in this field, you know, we invite you on to come and share your story, share your experience, because this is a series I'm really trying to get off the ground, and I couldn't think of a better second show feature than Naja herself.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: She is so phenomenal.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Her work really stands out and speaks for itself.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: And more importantly, she's just such a globally sound and just educated individual, and I just couldn't thank her enough for you know giving us this opportunity and coming on.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're somebody who works in fashion journalism or fashion photography, and you know contacts or if you yourself feel that you know you have a wonderful story and you'd love to share it on our show, please reach out to me directly.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: You can get my email um by emailing us at skincareanarchy at gmail.com.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: It is really, really easy to reach us, and also I believe the email is in our Instagram bio as well.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: So reach out, let us know if you're interested.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: We would love to keep this Fashion Fridays series going along with the Ferguson Fridays that we already have, and yeah, enjoy the show.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: Hi guys, welcome back to Skill Care Anarchy.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: This is your host, Ekta, and I am so excited because this is another episode in the Fashion Friday series, and I couldn't think of a better guest to interview than the one that we have today.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: She is truly an icon.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: She has been in the industry for quite some time now, interviewed the best of the best.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: She's interviewed over 1,000 personalities.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, truly, truly just epic.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't know how else to describe her.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: She has authored over seven books, um, and just I mean, everything you name it, and she's done it.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: So without further ado, I would like to introduce you guys to Naja Syage.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the show, Naja.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so honored to host you.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, how are you?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for coming onto the show.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very excited.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I want to dive in and really just kind of dive into your career.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: You're, I mean, you have such a wonderful, you know, and just amazing career.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I would love to learn all about it.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: So if you could walk us down memory lane, that'd be a great place to start.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_04: So, I mean, I start I always was like a creative person.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I went to art school uh in Toronto, which is my hometown.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_04: I'm from Canada, and um, I studied painting and film and I wanted to be an artist, but in order to like, you know, get your MFA and go to like a really good, reputable school in the US, you kind of have to have like hundreds of thousands of dollars.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_04: And my parents weren't willing to support me.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_04: So I ended up going to journalism school, but I didn't want to do politics journalism.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_04: And when you go to journalism school, it's kind of like they kind of train you to be a politics reporter robot.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_04: And um at that time, which was 2006, and I didn't want to do that because I wanted to still, you know, be creative.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I just spent four years being around artists and being in art studios and not really sitting in classrooms with desks.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_04: So um so I sort of did like the night school version of journalism school at Ryerson and sort of taught myself through mentoring under certain entertainment journalists.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_04: Most famous one, I guess, was John Bentley Mays, another one was RM Vaughn, and just figuring out how to handle becoming an arts and culture journalist.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_04: And um, I started at the Globe and Mail.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and that led me to write, that's Canada's national newspaper, which is very like New York Timesy.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_04: And then, you know, it did lead me to writing for the New York Times.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_04: And um I was an arts journalist for a really long time.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_04: Uh the uh it ended of at the Guardian out around 2020-ish.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_04: And then I sort of did a switch I needed to change, and I turned to fashion.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_04: So I write about fashion for Forbes and the South China Morning Post and a few other places.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, it's good fun.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_04: I just love to be around creative people and to be able to interview them.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_04: I also interview celebrities for Chandeland.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it's just, it doesn't matter if it's an actor or if it's a fashion designer or even if it's an architect, because if you're a creative soul, you're a creative soul.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_04: It comes out in a different kind of way.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_04: It can even be a plastic surgeon, to be honest with you.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_04: So um it's just fascinating to be able to have this gift to be able to carry these people's stories to print or the internet, you know what I mean?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's that's such a I mean, I love how you uh how you put that, you know, and I I love how you are focused on the story part of it, because that's something that I think not enough people are um aware of is that, you know, to really bring the story out in an individual or to about their personality or about what they are in the public eye.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's got to be so difficult, right?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I would love to get um just maybe I could pick your brain a little bit about some of the people who are difficult, uh, you know, personalities you've interviewed in terms of getting really getting the story out of them and you know, what are some some challenges you faced, you know, in in that current.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_04: It's never, it's honestly, it's never the A-listers, it's never the people themselves, it's more about the handlers and the people around them who are to who are trying to microcontrol everything.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, yeah.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_04: So I mean, the celebrities are nice people themselves.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, they're normal, they're just like us, right?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_04: But my main question that I want to know from them because we live in America, which is like a heavily fame and riches driven society.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, the American dream is to be a millionaire and to be famous and to have a lot of Instagram followers.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, look at how many people have spent money on their blue check for Instagram.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_04: Instagram made 44 million on the first day when they opened that, opened the doors to that.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, what does that say?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, A, you know, it's we need we want to have authorship over our own identity on the internet so it doesn't get stolen.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_04: And I totally agree with that.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_04: But at the same time, I mean, there's this whole culture of fake followers and trying to make our lives look better than they actually are through lifestyle photography.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_04: And a lot of people want to be famous, you know, and um the people who are really famous don't really care about being famous.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and those are the people who I interview, the A-listers, you know, everybody from Susan Sarandon to amazing actors like Christina Ricci, Jennifer Jason Lee, uh, fashion designers like Anna Sui.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I'm interviewing Jimmy Chu tomorrow.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_04: And whenever I interview these people, I always save one question for last.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_04: And that question is what advice do you have to give to young artists or young actors today?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_04: Because that gives these people the opportunity to give something back.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_04: Like if you really are rich and famous, you know, what can you offer in the terms of advice to give back so the people who are below you can maybe aspire, you know, who do look up to you can maybe get to where you are today.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_04: Even if you know, Christina Ricciou, she she told me that her advice was don't listen to me, listen to yourself.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and that is good advice.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I want to put all of these um advices into a book because I think that that's like the best question to ask people is what you know, what do they have to give back?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_04: Some people do have their own foundations, some people are philanthropists, um, some people do donate their time.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, Susan Sarandon spent 2015 um, you know, uh in Greece um greeting the refugees from Syria.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_04: That's how she spent her Christmas, and I got to interview her about that.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_04: So it's really interesting to hear how these people are giving back and you know, especially in the form of advice, like you know, what they have for young actors.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_04: I interviewed Fortune Feinster the other day, and she's uh a really famous comedian, and she started out as a journalist.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_04: And um, so I asked her, I said, you know what it's like to hustle on the side as a comedian working for free, you know, doing these stand-up gigs while you had a day job.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, what advice do you have for people who are working for free as an artist right now?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_04: And her advice was quite surprising because she said, Enjoy the stage that you're at right now, don't rush to get an agent, you know, everything else.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_04: Just enjoy doing comedy where you are right now with your friends and just going to that local club and doing it and enjoy the moment because next thing you know, it's going to be gone.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_04: And she's right.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_04: And we don't realize that because we're always, especially in a city like New York and you know, other cities as well, people are rushing and they just want to get what they want, they want to meet their goals, they're manifesting things, and they're not really sometimes taking the moment to like really absorb where they are at that moment and be grateful for it, even if they're not where they want to be.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_04: So I always learn something from these people, and I and I it's great that I'm able to include it in my stories.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: I really love that.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: I love the you know advice you shared is that you know it's kind of like the whole be here now thing, right?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's it's really about just being present and being, you know, present and doing what you can in the moment.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I feel like with the celebrities, it must be so difficult because you know, if if I were to be put into a situation like that, I wouldn't even know what the first thing to ask.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I really give you kudos for you know, for really getting the story out and for interviewing such um, you know, just such different personalities.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's that's really where I am so intrigued by your work because it's never the same.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it's there's so much to know about individuals that have such giant platforms that we as just you know average everyday people, we look at them and we think their lives are perfect, right?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: And we think that oh, you know, all this stuff, but I don't know anything about you know XYZ celebrity.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know anything about them, you know.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it must be really interesting from your perspective, right?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: To just like learn about them as people, just just normal people.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: So that that's very creepy.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: Now I want to actually, Najee, I wanna I want to shift focus because I'm very, very interested in your books and and your work um in the journalism front, uh, you know, especially when it comes to like publishing the books and and what you wrote and and what really inspired you to go into this authorship uh route.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like I really want to learn about that and what um prompted you to just go on this journey and say, screw it, I'm gonna write my first book and then I'm just gonna take it from there, you know, if you can tell us all about that.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, sure.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_04: So the first book, um, so all my books are self-published.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_04: I self-publish them and I sell them um myself.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_04: And that was a decision because um if you have sort of like a niche topic, it's harder to find a publisher because they just want like a really like obvious, big, uh generalized, marketable idea.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_04: And I mean, while that might sell, uh like you know, 50 great performance artists of our time or whatever, I mean, that's not oh, that's not gonna, that's not true to myself.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_04: And it's not me really telling my story.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_04: I'm a writer, I'm single, I'm in my 40s, I never got married, and I never had kids.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_04: Uh the only way that I feel that I can leave my legacy behind is if I publish books because they're gonna last longer than me in libraries, online, and in other places.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_04: And hopefully they will inspire people one day.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, maybe yes, maybe no.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but it's just a way of solidifying my own sort of you know imprint.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I I encourage people to do the same too.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you can't wait for other people to discover your work or find, you know, like it's like if you want to make a documentary, if you want to do a podcast, like what you're doing, you know, you have to have that startup sort of DIY, go-getter energy to to make things happen.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_04: So my first book, Getting Your Shit Together, was published in I think 2010.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_04: And it just came out of the fact I was doing lectures, like at art schools, on like the marketing and promotion side of things uh for artists, because this was a time before it was included in programs.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_04: And um and and then there was so many requests for like the notes of what I was talking about that I turned it into an ebook and that it just like sold a lot.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_04: So I just thought, okay, I'm gonna keep going with this.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um, because I was surprised how it was, you know, this professional advice was useful and that um it spread like wildfire.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_04: And um, and then I just decided to do other books that were more focused on, you know, my life um as a reporter because I've been able to travel uh for for work a lot.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_04: So um for example, my my book released in 2018, Bien Alley Bitch, is like a is a collection of 25 stories of going to art biennales and film festivals and things like that.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, the whole experience around interviewing famous people and what it's like to meet them, it's in that book.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_04: And like the whole like I flew to Venice to interview um Salma Hayek for 15 minutes at an artist.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I love that.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_04: To some people, to some people that would be crazy, you know what I mean?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_04: Because if she canceled, like I would have been screwed, but it's that whole experience and sort of the risk-taking aspect of it that's kind of at the heart of the book, and all the stories are really funny because it's an entertaining experience working in entertainment, and everybody who does work in entertainment knows that.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_04: So um so that's the story of being alley bitch as well.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_04: And then I when I as I moved more into uh reporting on um pop culture and celebrity and entertainment stuff, then I released Red Carpet Ho, which is a a story about um, or also a collection of short stories about being on the red carpet and what is it, what what it's like to see celebrities coming on and off the red carpet, how it's become a fashion show, what it's like to deal with all the male photographers who elbow you out of the way, uh the publicists who control things, and you know, how you're not allowed to photograph celebrities coming out of their cars because that's considered paparazzi photography.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, there's just so many different layers um that people don't know about it, and especially it coming from a woman, um, I think is is is very different and risky.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I've always used the photos that I've taken.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm a writer and photographer.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_04: I've always used the photos that I've taken of celebrities um in my books, and that helps with the promotion aspect too, because I think it's hard to promote a book when it's just like a like a novel and there's no images to go with it except for the book cover or the offer photo.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_04: So that helps illustrate the whole thing, you know.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_04: So I I you know, there's usually when you go to a bookstore, you go to the photo book section or you go to like the fiction or non-fiction section, and there's no real in-between, but what I do is in between because I take photos and I write, and I want to include both of them because you know, I think it's more interesting.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_04: And now my most recent book, uh paparazzi bitch, is you know, um, a fun play on like, you know, all the like photos I've stolen sort of over the years when I have been able to get really close to these celebrities, and um and I would just have my purse cam on me, which is like a camera that fits in my purse.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_04: And then at the end of the interview, I would say, Hey, can I just like grab a few photos of you do mine?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_04: And they say, Yeah, sure, no problem.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_04: And um, you know, these like intimate, nice photos, whether it's like at film festivals or in an office or you know, anything.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_04: I've collected all of these uh these images and put them together because and it there's no words in the book because I've noticed with Instagram culture that people don't like to read books anymore.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: So oh my god, don't even get me started on that.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I know, I know.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's not just Instagram, it's everything, all social media culture.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's turned into a giant problem, I feel like.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and it's it's just kind of shocking as somebody who like writes books and who writes for a living.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, yeah, okay, people can get through an article, but it's like, can people get through a one-hour long podcast?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_04: Can people get through you know a 200-page book anymore?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_04: Or is the attention span just kind of like given up on any of those things, even if it is a topic where it's like how to be rich?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_04: Like, will people devote the time to like you know, read through the 10 chapters that it takes to read that or something?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's it's just kind of so I and you know, I'm gonna do another photo book because the photo book was so successful and people liked it because it was easy to digest, but it and and that's great, but at the same time, it's like what is happening to the like you know, is our culture becoming illiterate because of our phones?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I think it is, if you ask me.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think it is, you know.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think that's it.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's very scary.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's frightening because honestly, I I I don't mean to interrupt you, but this is such an important topic that you're bringing up, and I absolutely commend you for for even bringing it up because uh at the end of the day, I mean, we're living in a society right now where if no one's reading anything and you're only getting your information from like social media or like something like video, you're missing out on like 50% of the knowledge you could gain.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I remember growing up and reading, you know, thousands and thousands of books.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: Literally, I was seven years old.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: I had already read the entire library of the Encyclopedia Britannica at that age.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's literally just ridiculous to me right now that nobody wants to sit down, like you said, and actually get through even a chapter of a book, you know, regardless of how much value it will add to their life.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's insanity to me.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, um, and also in in reference to your photography, I love that you brought that up because, you know, I am a huge, huge fan.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, I think a lot of us are of you know photography in general because, you know, a picture truly is worth a thousand words, you know, in the sense of like it depends on how much you study it, you know.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it I remember being younger and going to, for example, the Fringe Festival in Scotland, you know, and just seeing all these photographers, yeah, and and seeing all these amazing, amazing photographers and their work.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: And it was just so gorgeous, but they still had words on their photography, you know what I mean?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like a different time, a different way of thinking, a different group of people, you know, it wasn't westernized social media everywhere, you know.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I just remember feeling like even at that age, I gained more from that experience than I have ever gained being on social media, like Instagram, TikTok, all these places, right?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it was because that those were true artists, you know what I mean?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: Those were people that were putting their work out there and, you know, just saying, listen, you were here to teach you something, but we're gonna go at it in a different perspective and we're gonna bring it to you in a way that's going to be so mesmerizing and just encompass all of your senses.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I hear you, you know, I totally understand like where you're coming from, and that's why I'm so intrigued by your books, because I think at the end of the day, you can't replace a truly good book, you just can't do it.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it it doesn't matter how much TikTok reels and crap you make, it doesn't matter, you know.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: But um, I want to I I I want to actually ask you, you know, what are some of your most, I think, yeah, I don't I don't know what the best word is, but I guess iconic or most memorable moments of photography, you know, what were some of the best moments you've had as a photographer, you know, just feeling like wow, I've really got a good shot there, you know, or or anything that you could share with us.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah, for sure.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_04: So when I was like uh so I only really um became a photographer, I think in when I moved to Berlin.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um as you know, Berlin is, was, I mean, depending on who you ask, a creative hotspot uh for a lot of people.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_04: Peaches, like the famous electric clash musician, was there in the early 2000s, and like Berlin became like along with her and a lot of other like techno-related musicians, um, Berlin became like a hub of like nightlife and culture, and it was like an affordable hub where artists moved to.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_04: So I moved there in 2010 and I got a cheap apartment.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_04: And there was a lot of like foreigners who also live there and were just trying to make their way as artists in their 20s and 30s, and I ended up staying there for seven years, and I became a nightlife photographer shooting parties because I needed a nightlife job.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_04: The nightlife economy in Berlin is huge, and it's a huge, a big part of tourism too.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_04: So I got hired by clubs and bookers and promoters to shoot parties.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_04: It wasn't just musical acts, but it was like the people themselves.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I have this huge collection that I'm sitting on of like Berlin party photos that I'm hoping to publish soon.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um but it was because of that that I what was the question again?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the question was really like, what are some of your favorite photography moments?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_04: So that that's how I became a photographer.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_04: And then in 2012, I flew to Vienna.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I think it was Gallery Govinska that was having like Like a exhibition of Marina Abramovic, uh, her her work, and I got to interview her for my video TV show called Art Stars, and I got to photograph her.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_04: But being a woman photographer who was not as confident as the surrounding men, I got sort of side shots of a big photo shoot that she was doing for a magazine.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_04: But they turned out so well because they she was so staged and like so manicured and the lighting was really good.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I'm just so proud of the photos that I got of Marina Abramovic.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um yeah, so that would that's one, I would say Yoko Ono too in Frankfurt.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_04: I love the photos that I got of her.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then strangely enough, when um Alec and Hilaria Baldwin were going to a gala somewhere near the Lincoln Center, I got them going in, uh, you know, looking as like a dapper sort of couple back in 2019.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_04: So I mean, there's like high glamour meets like random sort of things.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it's it's not always super, super famous people.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes a photo is just of a lineup or like a busy red carpet, or from I just was just editing a photo for my next book of like a celebrity standing from behind, and then all of the the bright lights in front of her, and I'm just getting all the shadows of that standing behind her because I couldn't fit in front.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_04: So sometimes like the limitations ended up working to my advantage as a photographer.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_04: It was just a matter of like being able to keep shooting.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_04: So every shoot is memorable, but the ones where I feel like um were kind of incredible uh is the the ones that people who are really old and uh you don't know when they're gonna die.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_04: Like I got to shoot Carl Lagerfeld just a few months before he died in Paris when he was lighting up the Champs-Élysées Boulevard with the mayor of Paris at the time uh for Christmas.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_04: It was like an event, and he showed up in the press.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_04: And what he did that was so shocking for Carl Lagerfeld, as you know, the Met Gala is going to be focused on him this year, is that um he smiled and he was smiling and he was laughing because he was always like a very stoic German kind of guy.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_04: He was very serious about his career and you know, snappy too.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_04: And so the fact that he was like experiencing so much joy and laughing, um, but a lot of people didn't publish the photo of him laughing because he had missing teeth, but he was a guy in his 80s.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, he could he could do whatever he wants, you know.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, like if you you're at that age, I mean, is does it really matter?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I don't know.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_04: And so I published in my book the photo of him with with missing teeth, but he just looks so happy.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, does it really matter?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that's one of the most memorable shots I've gotten.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: I really love that.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that you said the about the missing teeth thing because honestly, it writ it really doesn't matter.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: And in the world that we live in now with the you know, overly photoshopped images of everybody and you know, all that.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's it's actually refreshing to hear that.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: So um that's very, very interesting.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I actually, you know, for me, I think photography is one of I don't know, as as just a normal person, you know, everyday person, I I look at the works of individuals such as yourself and I think to myself, you know, that must have been those moments must have been so um impactful, right?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: And they they get transferred to your memory.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean that's why I asked you that because it's like it's like, yeah, your lens captured it, but so did your mind, you know.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like it just has beautifulness, a beautiful thing.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I I really commend you for for having you know this career that's so international.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because one of my biggest questions that I had for you even before we started recording was this idea of you know international fashion and your opinion of it, because you know, as a woman who um, you know, I was born in India, I was uh, you know, educated internationally.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: I've I've I've never ever been just in America, right?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, a lot of it can relate to that.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I think um, you know, one thing I've noticed is that the whole world is different um than America.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, America is very different in the sense that we like overhype a lot of things and we underhype a lot of really important things.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so my question really to you is, you know, uh from this international perspective, what is something that you've seen about, you know, just the celebrity world or the limelight world that is so different everywhere else compared to American celebrity culture?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you were to like compare and contrast, you know.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, sadly, and I hate to say this, but a lot of European fashion kind of imitates American or uh samples American uh like urban streets style in in many, many ways.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes, I mean, uh, Guatemala Fashion Week is a good example of them not doing that, where they take their traditional fabrics and figured out way that symbolize things from their own culture in the countryside.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_04: And the designers uh from Guatemala have figured out a way to use those fabrics to use them for the modern woman or the modern person who's going to be wearing them.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_04: And that I think is meaningful.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_04: But in a lot of other places like Europe, they just kind of idolize America because America represents uh international.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_04: So people think that if they do imitate, you know, what you see in terms of like what's going on with like sneakerheads right now, or what's what's going on with streetwear, what's going on with athleisure and you know, with like wear and like all of those kind of things.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of people are sampling from that rather than sort of just looking to themselves and creating things.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_04: But I mean, there's great designers coming out of Georgia, which is a small country in Europe.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_04: Berlin Fashion Week is still super interesting, even though it's very industrial and a lot of the clothing is black, but you know, Esther Perband is like an incredible designer.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_04: And then, you know, Paris, nothing tops Paris.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_04: But I do encourage people to go to all the fashion weeks that are internationally.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, because if you want to see something new, you go outside of that typical circuit of uh Milan, Paris, and New York, even though people just flock to those thinking that that's the mecca of fashion.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_04: But where you're really going to discover things is that other fashion weeks, like whether it's Mexico City, whether it's LA, whether it's like I say, Guatemala, like anywhere, just because it opens your eyes to what's really going on and you're able to uh, you know, discover these young or old sometimes, you know, up-and-coming designers that are overlooked because they're not funded by these enormous, you know, conglomerate uh companies.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_04: They're like taking their money and putting it on their dream and making it happen on the runway.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I love that.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that you said that because honestly, I I think that you know, that that's really eye-opening for me what you said about how people are borrowing from American fashion, American culture, and you know, incorporating it, especially in Europe.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think um, you know, where I get very confused is where I see the the complete uh you know 180 that we've done with Eastern fashion.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, being an Indian woman myself, I've grown up uh in a world of you know, just understanding true fashion of the East, whether that's India, whether that's other Asian countries, like I've seen it.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like we bring that over to the West, whether that's Europe or whether that's North America, and we kind of change everything.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: And it just makes me go, why do we do that?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's a lot more beauty in preserving the cultural and the historical aspects than to just completely change it.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I would I'd love your opinion on that because I think there's a lot of, you know, fashion, I mean, with all due respect, it's you know, it's in the eye of the beholder how you view it.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: However, I think there is this cultural component that gets lost in translation sometimes, and um, you know, it really does impact cultures, right?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: And it impacts the way that the new generations are perceiving those cultures.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I would love to just get your opinion and your your comments on that.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I just came back recently from Seoul Fashion Week in South Korea, and I mean that was really eye-opening too.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, that doesn't necessarily sample from um their own uh culture in terms of like historic clothing, historic Korean clothing that you see in the fashion designers, but the fashion designers who are coming out of Seoul are super experimental and very talented with tailoring.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_04: So it's not like they're just ordering things and having them made elsewhere and like shipping them over and then adding like a big price tag to it.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_04: It's like some of them are really amazing, you know, seamsters as tailors and like just really talented designers.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and a lot of them use um take traditional things and turn make them backwards, upside down, abstract shapes, like very architectural, angular like dresses, jackets, and outfits, like uh some brands like Maison Nika and MMAM, they're just doing incredible things.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_04: They're just such gifted designers, but a lot of people don't really know about them because they're on the other side of the world and they, you know, are they really gonna invest in coming all the way to New York Fashion Week?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I don't know, but um I think the reason why um America is imitated is because the biggest export culturally is hip-hop, and uh that's become like a really, really dominant influence.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_04: So when um people see like rap videos or you know, even you know, as anything on social media, whatever, any brands that influential rappers or celebrities, but I feel like especially in music, pop music, pop and rap, but now they're interchangeable and almost the same thing with autotune and EDM, um, that um people are turning to hip hop as the greatest sort of holy grail, as the influence of what fashion is and could be.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_04: And I feel like that started with you know streetwear brands like Sean John, you know, in that back in the 90s.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_04: Like you remember that, right?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, of course.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_04: Of course, yeah.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_04: And now it's like this whole big industry, and the Fashion Institute of Technology uh museum in New York City has like a 50-year hip-hop retrospective fashion exhibition right now, and that's fascinating to show how it really came from the streets and then it became high fashion.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but it wasn't always that way.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: No, I mean, I think that's a really, really great point that you brought up here.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I I, you know, I couldn't agree with you more, is that this this culture of hip-hop and this culture of rap music, you know, it started in the 70s and then we just saw it take off, you know, in terms of coming into the and bleeding into the world of fashion, bleeding into the cultural components, you know, everything really.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: It just kind of overtook, you know, and and that's wonderful, it's a beautiful thing.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, it's not, you know, it's not all-encompassing, right?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like anything else.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it's it's one example of of American culture.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that I I completely know what you're talking about with the show.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_04: Because I would go, like, I would go to rap shows in Berlin, and like I wrote a book about being a rapper called Snow White True Story.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_04: So if anybody wants to look into that, it's like my favorite book that I wrote.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_04: But I mean, if you go to a rap show in Berlin, it's like, you know, people are rapping in German, but it's like it's so sampled, it's almost a carbon copy of American culture.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, I know.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: I oh my gosh, Naja, I know, and it's you know what's crazy?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just Berlin, it's everywhere now.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: It is crazy, yeah.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it blows my mind because I literally cringe every time I can feel my whole body cringe every time I see this, you know, because I'm just like, why are you guys doing this, man?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's not even you don't have to copy another culture, you know.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: You never have to copy another culture, it's not necessary, you know.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_04: And that's and a great example of somebody who who did the opposite of that was Bjork.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_04: She was like, Hey, I'm from Iceland, I'm weird, I'm into space outfits and weird makeup.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_04: Take me as I am.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, she's also a superstar.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_04: I just wish there was more Bjork's in the world of people being like, Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I'm weird, I'm I'm independent.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just gonna put myself out there.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not gonna pretend to be anybody else or fit into any category.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, how do you categorize Bjork's music?
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you can't.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_04: How do you categorize her style?
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_04: You can't.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_04: She's she's an anomaly.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_04: She's you know, she is she is who she is, and that's what makes her a great artist.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I just wish that there was more people who followed their own vision, but I wonder if, you know, like we were talking about social media, if that has created a sort of herd mentality of what something should or should be rather than listening to yourself, your own inner vision.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: Or Vitas.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, Vitas is a great example as well, right?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's like, you know, you have this person that looks literally it's a Russian singer, you know, and they they just look like alien-like, right?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they've got their whole thing going on.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I think it's a really, really cool, I it's a cool topic, you know, for sure.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because I I think that music culture, obviously, as you had mentioned before, you know, definitely impacts the fashion world, um, you know, significantly.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, one thing I I will say though, you know, Naja, is you know, even come one thing I could comment on is Indian culture.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I always say this to my parents because they're, you know, really old school, obviously, right?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: They're born in the 60s, all that, you know, good stuff.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: And they're always looking at TV and they're like, why is everybody trying to be American?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, why the heck?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what happened to classical Indian, right?
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, these are like ancient, ancient cultures.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what happened to preserving that?
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: What happened to preserving those, you know, beautiful memories and those beautiful like things that were already pre-established?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it just comes, it makes you really think about the mindset of the culture and the generations nowadays, you know, and how much American fashion, American, um, you know, just I guess the uprising of American, you know, different genres of music or genres of fashion has impacted the world, you know, it really, really does make you think.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: So um, I agree with you.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's very interesting.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um I want to, I I want to actually ask you though, you know, if you were to give me like a short list of your favorite um, I guess, fashion shows you've ever been to, if you could.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: I know it's it's a very hard question because you've probably seen everything.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but what would you what would you say is like a good short list to Oh my God.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_04: It and you know what?
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_04: It's not even gonna be all runway shows because I think that that's too predictable and too easy.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_04: Do you know what I mean?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_04: Because I mean, what's the point of me mentioning a bunch of runway shows that you weren't there?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it's it's not, it's you know what I mean?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_04: It's not gonna be as meaningful as like red carpet moments or like, you know, just in-store parties.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, whatever.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, that's why I carry my camera around with me because it's like you never know when you're gonna get a good shot or experiencing something that's great.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_04: But I definitely think that the red carpet at the Venice Film Festival is one of the most epic things I've ever seen in my life.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, that film festival is like number one in the world.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_04: That's where that's where I saw the Joker before, you know, is like the very first screening of it ever.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and like just to be able to um be a part of you know, attending something like that and being able to photograph it um was incredible.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_04: So Venice Film Festival, 100% number one.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_04: Uh number two, I would say the the indie uh um what do you call it?
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um not runway shows, but there's just like this whole program of New York Fashion Week, but it's not the main program.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's just kind of like other runway shows that happen during New York Fashion Week at um at Spring Studios downtown.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_04: And there's uh Bruce Glenn, and they honored their runway show to their late mother, and they they had us a gospel singer sing her favorite song as the opening of the runway show.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_04: And and I think they grew up in the church and there was like fans, there was it was just like this whole churchy sort of like communal community vibe to it, and all the clothes were like bright and colorful.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_04: It was like, you know, you don't you wouldn't see that at like a huge blockbuster name um runway show, and that's what that's what I I love seeing up-and-coming designers or designers who are not part of the main program because you get to see magical moments like that, like because that was truly a magical moment.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe um another one, yeah.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_04: When I started out and I, you know, um couldn't get into Paris Fashion Week when I lived in Paris in 2017, I would just stand outside with my camera taking pictures of people as they went in, and then people would turn to me and be like, is that person famous?
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_04: And I would say, I don't know.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_04: I would just check it later because you never know.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_04: You just have to photograph people in the moment, or sometimes you do ask the other photographers and you guys try and figure it out together.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but it's it's you know, sometimes things happen so quickly that you just never know.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_04: But that was my sort of who's who of the fashion world.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_04: It was the people who I photographed going in and out of runway shows that I couldn't get into, but I just got some amazing shots of some amazing like historic figures, whether it's Susie Winkes to like, you know, vogue French Vogue editors to like models and what have you not.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_04: Another favorite place I like to shoot fashion, strangely enough, is Sotheby's uh the auction house.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_04: Whenever they have their parties and celebrities come, um, that's like a great place because there's more accessibility because there's less VIP, it's a bit more free roaming because it's like an art gallery setup.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_04: So I get some really good shots there.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, same with the the Tribeca ball, which is like in uh in an art school.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_04: So it's that's like outside of traditional stuff, because like I said, the PR people can just be so controlling.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um my god, don't give me a couple of things.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like it's like they're like guarding them, like it's like it's insane.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: And there was a gatekeeping the gatekeeping of PR is like next level, I hear you.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I mean like I understand their job and I get it because they're trying to protect their client, and like I fully support that.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_04: But I mean, there comes a point where you know, some spontaneity um to make a beautiful journalistic moment happen, you have to breathe a little bit.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_04: Like, there's some publicists who have rejected me from interviewing a celebrity because I refuse to send them a list of every single question that I wanted to ask them.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_04: Because, as you know, in the interview process, I mean spontaneous questions might come about.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_04: And if they say you can only ask, you can only ask questions about this brand collaboration that they're doing or this film that they're they're doing, that's it's not going to be a good interview because a good interview is free and wide-ranging, and you should be able to ask whatever you want.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so that that's that's definitely probably been the biggest challenge is overcoming the the PR limitations.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, I've missed out on a few good opportunities because of that.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_04: But at the same time, I mean, there's a system of the way I work, and then there's a system of the way they work.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_04: If they don't match up, then it's not gonna happen, but it's gonna happen with other people and other places, and that's better opportunities for me and other people, but um, it's just you know, hugely challenging when when things like that come up and it's just so tightly controlled, as if something really bad is gonna happen.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I know, right?
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, as if they think you're gonna jump their like client or something.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I mean, the days of being able to ask very challenging questions to people is gone.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you know, that that old school sort of tough journalism stuff.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I don't know if it really exists all that much anymore.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it might exist here and there, but um, you know, like George Wayne from Vanity Fair, he was always out like he, I think he asked Madonna how many abortions she had.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, like, you know, you can't ask people questions like that anymore because um, you know, I don't even know how some people have gotten away with it, but it's just we're in a different time.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_04: Journalism has changed very much.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_04: And um, I don't think I'm not sure that you can ask the challenging questions.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_04: And if you do, you have to ask them in a really roundabout way, like, what do you think about people who said this about you?
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_04: You know, rather than are you an alcoholic or something like that?
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it's it's totally, you know, you can't you can't ask.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_04: But if the the funny thing is though, when you do ask those questions, if you do ask it in a nice way and you're coming from like a good place of uh, I don't want to say sympathy, but empathy, um, it's sometimes they can when people speak the truth.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it ends up being a really beautiful interview and it makes people love them even more.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think it's a bad PR thing at all, but it it all depends on the eye of the PR person, I guess.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, 100%.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: And also, I mean, you're never I think some of the best uh quotes are always by authors, too, though.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, at the end of the day, you're never gonna get a Charles Bukowski level quote from any celebrity, right?
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're not gonna hear somebody say like, I loved being an alcoholic, you know, screw it.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, my best friend, those kind of things.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, it's just it's a different world we live in.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I think that authenticity is something I completely, completely resonate with, you know, everything you said.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it's brilliant what you said.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think that there is a place for that though, you know, and there is a timelessness to that.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I think if we get rid of that, then we're just going to collapse completely into this world of just, you know, just makeover social media where everything is a plastic doll that doesn't make any, you know, there's no humanity, there's no, you know, relatable aspect.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I just I despise that world in a way, you know what I mean?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because it takes away the that free thinking mindset from the youth.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I just think that there's, I mean, so much injustice is done when you're like that.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I I hope that it changes, you know.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: I hope we don't end up going there.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's tricky.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's definitely tricky, yeah, for sure.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I I do want to know though, and I and I think this is this is a really um you know, important question for all the listeners out there, you know, because I really want you guys to read not just books for real.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, please put down your phones and read a book, you know, because honestly, like at the at the end of the day, I mean, you need to learn, and the only way to learn is from the real people who've lived.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, these experiences.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, Naja, I want you to give me, like, if you were to say, you know, this is the first book you should start from in my collection.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what would be the first one that you would recommend to somebody to introduce them to your work?
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_04: I would definitely say Red Carpet Ho is like a really funny book about behind the scenes with celebrities and things that I've learned from them.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_04: And like it starts off in the first chapter of me in Las Vegas at a Paula Abdul show.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_04: And I was supposed to interview her after the show.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_04: And I went backstage and I got to meet all the backup dancers.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_04: And one of the dancers was like the choreographer of Michael Jackson.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I know, and I was like, what was it like to work with Michael Jackson?
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what was it like to be really close with him?
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_04: And and like, you know, his talent.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_04: And he says that Michael Jackson would get on stage.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_04: He said that something would take over him.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_04: And he just let go and you know, just let it do its thing.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_04: And um I love that because it sounds like his talent was sort of you know possessed, but it was also so intuitive that it it just kind of came out of him so naturally.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_04: It was just like who he was, and he had such a gift for singing.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_04: But I I ended up not being able to interview Paula Abdul because she canceled last minute while I was standing outside of her hotel room that's Sunday morning.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_04: I know, and it was so brutal.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, people need to know how celebrities really treat people because the celebrities who don't treat people well, they need to they need to be called out.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_04: And Paula, you shouldn't have stood me up for that.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_04: Come on, Paula, for real.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_04: That's wrong, man.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_04: I waited and I hung around and I was on my way to the airport and I had my luggage with me.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_04: I had checked out of the hotel, I was with auto my bags with me.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_04: I was ready to ask her all these questions.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_04: It was gonna be a fun interview, but she just didn't feel well, so it was canceled.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, I don't feel well 90 days out of the freaking week.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's a you know it's I know, right?
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_04: And that's the New York hustle.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_04: It's like New York really hustles harder because I mean New Yorkers really fight, they play hard, they work hard, and like, you know, they work their asses off.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_04: And that's why, you know, a lot of successful people live here, as well as other places in the world too.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_04: But Redheart Carpet Ho, which you can get from blurb.com, B-L-U-R-B.com is definitely my first recommended reading.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_04: And then pair it up with pick up paparazzi bitch while you're at it and see the photos, more of the photos of what I've gotten from people behind the scenes.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_04: I think the biggest challenge of getting those photos is because when you accredit as a as a writer to events, like hi, I'm a writer, I would like to attend this event.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not allowed to go to the photo section.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_04: And when I accredit as a photographer, I'm not allowed to go inside and see the movie because that's only for writers.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_04: So I've had to like it's like a stupid PR rule that you're not allowed to do both.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_04: That is so much red tape.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_04: Why?
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_04: Like, why?
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_04: I know you can read my book, Red Carpaho, and you'll find out why.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_04: Or you know, just how I how I managed to get around it so I could do my job of both things.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_04: But um, you know, it's it's amazing.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_04: I've been able to do this more than 10 years.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um, almost 15, I would say now.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_04: But I definitely think, yeah, Red Carpaho is is one of my favorite.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_04: And then my next book coming up is gonna be another photo book and it'll be released this year.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_04: So watch out for that.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_04: Give us a sneak peek, please.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you know, it's really just uh the like the New York gala scene.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_04: That's that's what this book is because uh New York, like I said, New York works hard but then plays hard.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, nobody shows up to a party like New Yorkers dressed to the nines and ultra-glam, like you've never seen it before.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, New Yorkers are social creatures, they're not really people who are going to invite you over to their house.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_04: They want to go out and party and go to events and you know, meet your friends and meet other people.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_04: Hey, let's go to this place now.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_04: And like, you know, I've been uh lucky enough to attend these gallas, whether it's the red carpets or the you know, the dinners, um, and being able to shoot these and seeing who's there, whether it's big names or whether it's smaller names or whether it's like friends, it's just it's gonna be a snapshot of like the New York City party yearbook.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, I can't wait.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna be like your first person to purchase that book.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: That sounds sound sound amazing.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, it sounds freaking phenomenal.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: And honestly, like I actually want to ask you if you're able to even answer this.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I you know, in the sense of like if you're allowed to answer it, I don't know.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but um, do you get a list of who's coming to what?
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like what event?
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, the Met, I know there was like a little bit of controversy lately, and you don't have to comment on this if you don't want to, but like, you know, the Kardashians like apparently weren't invited to the Met this year or something like that.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: But like I'm curious from the standpoint of a photographer, like, do you guys get a list of like what celebrities are coming to what event?
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_02: Or like do you just kind of show up and and figure out, hey, this person looks cool today, you know?
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna put it on.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, and like I sympathize with the PR people when it comes to this, but um yeah, it's uh it's called a tip sheet, right?
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like um of photos of celebrities' heads.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_04: There's like 25 per page, and sometimes you get four pages and it's like a stapled thing.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_04: So, and then it has their name underneath it.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_04: And PR people put these together and it's really helpful because then we know how to sell spell people's names, how to credit them if they want to be, you know, writer, actor, you name it.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_04: But the dangerous thing about sending out a tip sheet is that there's the expectation for that person to show up and they don't always show up.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_04: And I feel bad for the PR people who put those, you know, things on.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, for the people who are like hosting the event or they're like in on the honorary committee, whatever they you know, it's your it's your movie premiere, you have to show up.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_04: That's fine.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_04: But not everybody is a has to.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I remember I was on one red carpet for this um this fundraising gala, and um Bella Hadid was supposed to show up, and there was so many photographers, and they were so excited because everybody wanted to shoot her, and there was like 50 photographers, and she just didn't show up.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, her mom showed up, and we got to photograph her mom, but I she was probably supposed to show up with her mom.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_04: But as soon as her mom left the red carpet, everybody, all the photographers left, and they were all disappointed because they all came to the city to Cipriani from Queens, you know, you name it.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, the far away, like it was insane, and dragging like 20, 30 pound photo gear, you know, to shoot this famous model who didn't even show up at the event.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_04: So it can be really disappointing.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_04: And then what do you do?
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you don't get a money shot that night.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_04: So some photographers who depend wholly on their income for it are screwed.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_04: What are they gonna do?
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_04: They're gonna have to find another big celebrity to shoot that week so they can make to make their money.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_04: So it's it can be a really tough business, especially when shooting stars, I think.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to ask you this, and this is kind of like, you know, I've been dying to ask this question for I don't know how many years, and that is about the whole paparazzi, you know, the bad name around paparazzi, you know, photography and stuff, and you know, just people basically attacking photographers for doing their job, you know, that's how I see it, and that's my interpretation of it.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: But um, I know that there's a lot of bylines, a lot of headlines that are not, you know, in sync with what I just said, you know, in terms of the perspective.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, what is your opinion about that in terms of like, you know, if a photographer is out there doing their job, like, you know, should we be attacking them in the sense of like, you know, are they predators or whatever these media outlets want to call them?
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what is just I just want your opinion, you know what I mean?
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_04: Just your Yeah, it's it's a really tricky business.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I work for two photo agencies and I do shoot for them, but um I don't I don't consider myself a paparazzi because I don't um hang out in front of in the bushes in front of celebrities' houses.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_04: But when you think about the people who do, I mean, I'm pretty sure that they don't have any other opportunity, and that's like their their main gig.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_04: I have met a few real and interviewed real uh paparazzi uh photographers from Rick Mendoza to Ron Gillella, and they're real people and they're nice and they're very affable and they're super friendly.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um but uh but at the same time, I mean, it's like a very ethical grayscale.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it depends on the photographer and how desperate they are for a photo um and how how far you're willing to go.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I just I think that comes down to your own heart.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um so it depends, and it varies from person to person.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_04: But I mean, if I see some a celebrity, I mean, at an event because that's where I go to and they're wearing makeup and they're in a fabulous dress or whatever, they're not like going to the grocery store.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I will sort of ask them uh if I can photograph them, but it's mostly screaming because it's such a loud situation that I always have to say one more for the lady photographer, and then they hear me and they turn around and they give me this great unique shot after all of the male photographers have already moved on to the next one.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_04: Because the lowest ranking photographers always get the very end of the red carpet, and that's me and like a few other girls or like amateur, like students, whatever.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_04: And um, that's where you can get the best shots because you can turn around and get different backdrops.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_04: You can get them coming and going, you can get them fixing their hair button or makeup on.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it got like a great shot of Tilda Swinton's boyfriend fixing her hair before she went in on the red carpet at the Lincoln Center, and it's like one of my favorite photos.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_04: So again, the disadvantage ends up being the benefit in the end.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, when you and that's why I think that self-promotion um is a good thing for a woman because we've we've typically been told that like, you know, the masters of photography is like Irving Penn and Ansel Adams, and like even today, it's like Mario Testino and like all these, you know, besides Ellen von Unworth and like um Annie Labelitz, there's like not that many well-known female photographers, and that's unfortunate.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so you know, that's why I encourage women to release their own photo books and release their own books and whatever their own documentaries, whatever it is that they need to do, just put it out there because amazing magical things will happen.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um the whole point of me releasing uh paparazzi bitch was because I interviewed a uh fashion designer named Philip Plein and he's German.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_04: And this guy is a real hustler.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_04: He is just built such uh a powerful brand on his name and is not lazy and is always trying to outdo himself.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_04: His only challenge, I think, is himself.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_04: And after I interviewed him at his house in New York City last year, that's when I went home and I put together my book, Paparazzi Bitch, an idea that I was sitting on for three years, and I put the book together in three hours and I sent it to the printer.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_04: Because, you know, there's other people out there who are doing it faster and better and getting better results while you're just sitting there and thinking about an idea when you really have to make it happen.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't realize until, you know, even just recently, I mean, how important it is to just like really you have to really make things happen.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_04: And that sometimes means throwing out the to-do list um or the planning stages or the business plan or whatever, and just like taking action and you know putting the fire to your butt.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_04: So I, you know, I credit him and dedicate the book to him for you know, you know, inspiring me to sort of make that happen.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I even asked him, too, like, you're a multimillionaire fashion designer.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, like, what advice does he have to give?
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_04: And it was so German.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_04: It was it was just like it was just like, and I lived in Germany, so like I understand.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_04: But he was like, you just have to be methodical and finish what you start.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Yeah, I understand that, you know, like every German is an engineer at heart.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I genuinely believe that, right?
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_04: But it's it's a very smart advice.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_04: It's like if you can finish what you start and methodically get through all of the steps to finish something and make it happen, then you have success, you complete it.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_04: But it takes time, it takes patience, it takes focus and concentration.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_04: You have to stay away from this distraction of social media, turn off your notifications and like you know, make make your goals happen because the books and things like that will last longer than social media.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_02: I I love that.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_02: I love what you said, and you know, honestly, you answered my my rounding out question, which was truly to give advice to female, um, you know, young females that are aspiring to go into fashion photography, because honestly, that's that's really where I want to get your advice.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm still gonna ask you that question, even though you you've given us such gems of wisdom here, is that you know, for all the listeners out there that are, you know, aspiring to go into this route, you know, especially now with the changing landscape.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, you know how it is, everything's different.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, what is your advice?
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, just to as a round out, like, you know, where should they start in terms of like networking or like finding the right people to like, you know, help them get into the right uh events or the right venues or whatever um you think is important if you could offer some for sure.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I think you should always have, you know, have a big statement for yourself.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, make turn your name into a brand because you can do it and don't let anybody hold you back, including yourself.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_04: But you do need like a publication name or a photo agency or a blog or something to help get you in the door of these events because nobody's just gonna let you in for your name, which you think is a brand right away until it becomes a brand later on.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_04: You have to be shooting for a photo agency or a publication or a blog or something.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_04: So make sure that you get with one who you can use as a way to get around and go to these venues and go to these parties and go to these events and collect photos.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, the photo that you sell of one celebrity or five or ten, you're still gonna have a hundred unpublished shots and use those photos because those other photos are yours.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, I think I mean it's complicated when you get into like copyright and intellectual property, and that's like a whole other conversation, but um just don't throw away the photos that you didn't use because they can still be used for other things in the future, and that's usually the foundation of books.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, the love people love to look at behind-the-scenes things, and I mean, my book might not be a bestseller right now, but in 25 years from now it could because it captures a snapshot of a zeit cultural zeitgeist of a moment in history.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_04: We're not we're you know what I mean.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because I love what you had said earlier, you know, it made me just like geek out in my own head because you were like, you know, I've got these shots of this beautiful, you know, someone's adjusting their hair or somebody adjusting their dress or like the drop.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_02: And you know what's crazy, and it's so cool about that is that my favorite photograph of celebrities, like for example, Marilyn Monroe or Elizabeth Taylor, or some of the greatest icons of you know, celebrity world, are those kind of shots, you know, where Marilyn's sitting in front of her mirror doing her makeup, you know what I mean?
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_02: Or like, yeah, like I mean, those are the moments that you want to like see, you know, Lucille Ball, like you know, standing in one of her early movies, you know, that somebody captured randomly.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, no one's gonna care about that very done up, you know, photograph every single time.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna look for those, you know, very interesting moments.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, I I love that you brought that up and I love that that you have created this beautiful career based on authenticity.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you are such an icon in my in my eyes, and I wow, you know, thank you.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for coming onto the show because I have been dying to interview someone of your caliber, and it's it's been such a such an honor to host you for real.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_04: And yes, thank you for having me and check me out um on Instagram.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_04: No, I'm kidding.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_03: My account is private, I don't want to be bad.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_02: No, check out check out the amazing, amazing books that have been written by this iconic photographer here.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, honestly, you guys, I'm gonna uh definitely list everything in the podcast art for this episode, but um, you know, I might even send you guys a newsletter for those of you that are subscribed to our email list um with links to Nadja's books because I cannot stress and amplify enough the message that she has really resonated here, which is we have to read.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, we have to read.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_02: Let's let's be real.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_02: Could I title this episode that, Nadja?
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_02: We need to read, hooked on, hooked on books, hooked on parts.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like no, but for real, I I really, really love it.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I thank you again.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_02: And for everyone listening, I hope you learned a lot in this episode.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_02: And if you really enjoyed it, I please uh help me convince Nadja to come back for part two if we can, because um, you know, there's just so much to learn here.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much again.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, thank you, and have a wonderful, wonderful afternoon, weekend, and don't give up on your dream because you can make it happen.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 1:01:05
  unknown: Okay.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 1:01:09
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• 1:01:14
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