Latest / The Steep Stuff Podcast / Kim Dobson | Pikes Peak Ascent Women's Record Holder & The Queen of Pikes Peak

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Kim Dobson | Pikes Peak Ascent Women's Record Holder & The Queen of Pikes Peak · The Steep Stuff Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, guys?
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, james Lariello, and today I am so proud and excited to bring you guys one of my favorite episodes and one of the coolest, most inspiring humans I may have ever had on the podcast.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Without further ado, I'm so excited to bring you the Queen of Pikes Peak eight-time Pikes Peak Ascent winner and course record holder in a time of 224.58 setback in 2012, none other than Kim Dobson Like I said, really exciting episode Was super, super stoked to be able to bring this to you and have this conversation with Kim and talk all about her journey as an athlete over the years and just, um, you know, just the dominance that she was able to bring to the sport.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Uh, to bring become one of the greatest, if not the greatest, female uphill runner of all time.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Um, and just, yeah, really exciting.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: So, without further ado, I'm not going to uh, ramble on for too long, cause I'm just so excited to bring this one to you.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: None other than Kim Dobson.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, we are live, all right.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Kim Dobson, welcome to the Steep Stuff podcast.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: How are you doing?
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Hi, I'm doing well.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: How are you?
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: I'm doing awesome.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Now, now that we finally connected and we got you on the pod, this is exciting.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm happy to be here.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me exciting.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm happy to be here.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: So your name has come up so many times.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Um, I mean, you are, I, you could say the queen of Pike's peak in more ways than one.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Um being the course record holder for the ascent.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Um, your time is just so crazy and you have so much history at that race.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Um, I, you know, most recently, I just had a conversation with Mark Tatum big shout out to Mark Um when we did a history of the Pikes Peak.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Um, we did basically a historical lesson, or podcast if you will.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Uh, on the history of the race and just like how much history you had with the race just kind of blew my mind, um, and you being one of the greatest female mountain runners, uh, of all time.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: It was like this, this hat we had to have had you on, yeah of all time it was like we had to have had you on.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was great to finally meet you.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: If you wouldn't mind introduce yourself and maybe talk a little bit about your background.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm Kim Dobson and I currently live in Eagle with my husband and we have two kids, two boys that are seven and 10.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: So I guess I'll go back to the beginning.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Growing up I didn't play any formal sports, but I grew up in Colorado so we cross-country skied and mountain biked and my mom likes to run so I would hop in local 5Ks and 10Ks but that was about it for me.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Until high school I started cross country and I had a very mediocre freshman year.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: But I caught the running bug and was really inspired to work harder and see improvement.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: So I progressed every year through high school but wasn't a standout high school runner.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: I think I was in the top 20 at the state meet my senior year in cross country.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: So I did well, but nothing amazing.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: And I went to college and chose not to run for any team or walk on.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: But I'm saying college is when I developed the passion for running myself.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: Just to escape dorm life and the craziness of college.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: I started going on long runs around Fort Collins, where I was going to college at CSU, and realizing like how awesome it is to explore a new place by running.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: So I started to do longer runs on my own.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: And then my sophomore year, I figured, hey, I've been running a lot, I should try a marathon.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: So I hopped into a marathon called the Easy Street Marathon, which they no longer have, but it was a pretty awesome, like just big loop around Fort Collins.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: So I went into that having no idea what I was doing.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Super naive, I just ran a lot but that was all I needed to do and had such an awesome experience.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: It killed me, like the marathon does.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: But I finished in 311 and I was like, oh, that's pretty good, and caught a little marathon bug in college.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: So then I ran Boston and Boulder Backroads, but through college it was just a passion.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: I had no idea how to train properly, eat properly, so I was pretty beat up after college and had a lot of injuries.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: My husband and I got married after college and we started hiking 14ers together and at that time I wasn't running too much because I was pretty injured, but we were hiking a lot and we caught the 14er bug and we wanted to hike all the 14ers in Colorado together.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: So we pursued that for a couple of years pretty passionately and we would climb 30, 30, 30, 14ers in a year.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Um, and I think that really transformed my body.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: It gave me the strength that I have had lacked in college.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Um, we had a little junkie Honda Accord that couldn't make it up any Jeep roads so we would have to start like seven miles down the Jeep road and hike up and he was like, he was pretty intense.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: He would let me stop one time, like to go to the bathroom, but he was like we've got to make the summit before the storms roll in.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: So it was.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: It wasn't like fun hiking, but it was fun.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: It was type two fun hiking.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: We were going pretty hard and we wanted to make the summits and we took it pretty hard.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: So I think in 2009, I well, at some point I started running again.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: My husband tried his first marathon and ran a sub three and it inspired me to try to run a marathon and sub three.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: So I got back into running once my injuries had healed and I added a little bit of structure into my running, just like a tempo once a week, logged my miles for the first time, did some of these basic things that I should have been doing before.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Um and my husband and I ran a marathon together and I broke three.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Um then later I had another injury, so I wasn't running all summer but we were doing a lot of that 14er hiking and I told Corey like hey, I've heard of Pikes Peak Ascent, we should, we should give it a try, since we're hiking all the 14ers.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: My mom had done it a couple of times growing up so we just signed up in 2009 on a whim, with no idea what to expect.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: We just signed up in 2009 on a whim, with no idea what to expect.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: I had this like old good luck shirt that I wore all the time it was like an under underwear, pretty much, with holes in it.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: We started out and I started slow and I just kind of paced it and started pushing harder and harder and passing people and towards the end I realized I was in second place and I was catching Megan Kimmel and I just had such a magical experience and I fell in love with uphill running at that race and realized like that was what my body was meant to do and it suited me and my strengths.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: I fell in love that day.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: So that was 2009.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: And I was second and from there, yeah, that is so Just became more and more.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is so Just became more and more yeah.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: It's so crazy so I'm going to preface this for the audience if they don't know.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Your first time you ran it you ran 241.49.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: That is so fast.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, and it was like I had no idea what times were.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: And that's the beauty of doing something for the first time you have no expectation and it's just like pure grit and pure joy.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: It exceeded my expectation.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: What was it like when you got to the top and you're like, oh, I'm in second place, like I'm on the podium, like this is amazing.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Like, did you have any competitive thoughts on that day?
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Like, were you no?
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: No.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: So Did you have any competitive thoughts on that day?
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Like were you no, no, so you're just like out there just to see what happens.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: I hadn't really been running all summer because my knee was hurting so I could only run up like 15% grade.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: Um, so my husband was in med school at the time and I was teaching.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: So we spent a month in Telluride and I just bummed around town because I wasn't working at the time and I would just run up Telluride trail.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Are you familiar?
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: with that Okay.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: I love that road.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: I would just run up that because that was the only thing I could do.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: So I was running like 10 miles a week but doing the hiking and the backpacking.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: So um it, yeah, blew my mind.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: It exceeded my expectations and it was one of those magical days where you're not even tired, you just feel so good, you finish and you're like that didn't feel hard.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: And I would imagine, 2009, that race.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: It was a big time for the race as well.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Lots of elites going out to do it.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Was it life-changing in any way?
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: The first time that you got on the podium, did you have sponsors reach out to you.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: What was that?
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Or was it just like, okay, I got second place.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to go home now.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: How did that work for you, gosh?
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: It's been so long it's hard to remember, but it was life changing.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: I remember Justin Mock reached out and wrote some articles and I think Pearl Azumi sent me some shoes to try and I definitely wanted to take it serious at that point.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: I'd spoken with some coaches and I didn't like sign or follow a specific coach, but I increased my own knowledge of training and I put in the structure and I started to develop more of an athlete elite athlete mindset rather than just like passionate runner.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: That's so crazy.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: So all right.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: So help me connect the dots, Cause you ran almost the same exact time in 2010, that coming back the next year.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, what was like?
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: What was that like?
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Cause I would imagine you would have been more like you're saying.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: You're more structured.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: You changed training a little bit.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Like was that?
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Was that I wouldn't say a letdown, because you pretty much ran the same exact time?
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: It was still insane.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: That was you want a second.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: It was like 30,.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: I think it was 13 seconds apart.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like it was no, it was less than that.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: It was two seconds off.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: It was 51.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh yeah.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: That's crazy, I couldn't be that consistent if I wanted to be so close.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: That's crazy.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Well, no, that's interesting and I think it shows the power of the mindset.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: I had trained harder and I went into the race with more expectation and it was like a world mountain running championship that year, and so it was more competitive and I think I thought I was going to be a lot faster.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: So that year it felt so hard, Even though I ran the exact same time.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: It was like I struggled to get up there.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Um, I don't know why, if that was a physiological thing or more of a mental thing, but it was interesting.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it could have been pressure.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, who knows?
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: I think it was yeah Are you one of those people and I don't want to go off on too many side tangents because I want to stick to the story but, like, are you one of those people that's like, in your heyday, doing this race?
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Cause I know this, cause Joe is so dialed with everything he does yes, like, pressure really matters on this mountain.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Um, are you, were you paying attention to things like that, going into the race?
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Like, what are the like, the little things that you were doing?
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: I, I was and I think the pressure helps in the training because it keeps you.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: It keeps you disciplined and dialed in.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: But personally, for me, the pressure on race day doesn't help.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Um, that just spikes my heart rate, which is already spiking when you're running up a mountain.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: I mean sorry, I mean like barometric pressure for like the top.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay, gotcha, Sorry, what was your question about the the?
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: barometer.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Like, were you, like one of those people that were like, cause I know, joe, and like most of these guys running it now, like they're even checking barometric pressure, like to see if it's a high, low day, is it going to be harder at the top?
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Like things like that Cause your body's changing as you go?
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, were you one of those people that paid attention to that stuff, or no?
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: No, not that I definitely paid attention to my effort and my breathing, I would say were the two biggest pieces.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: I knew, like when I got to the roundabout after that initial beginning, like I wanted to be so comfortable because people take off so fast and then they die at the roundabout and you're like this race is long.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: You just ran a five minute mile, but you're.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: You got a lot more race to go.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, like you pass people at the roundabout and they're gasping already.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: So I wanted it to feel like a jog to the roundabout and then I would always pick it up so you can get into a good position, pick it up through the steep section by the cog and the double track and then by the time I hit our trail I wanted to be in a relatively good position.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: But I had my mental like check marks throughout the race to know whatever I should be exuding at that point.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: And I would look at splits, but I tried not to rely too much on those because if you're not hitting it it can make you frustrated, if you're too fast it can freak you out.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: So it was definitely more of an effort-based run for me.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: All right, so I want to get back into the early years.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about 2011,.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: The first year you took your first job.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: And you went from 241 down to 234, which is pretty substantial.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: I mean you're talking what?
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Six or seven minutes of a drop there.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: What was that like for you?
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Like what was?
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Was this?
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, was it just a I don't know any difference in a taper?
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Was it any difference?
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Just feeling great on the day, like what, like any difference in training, like what?
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: What turned the corner for you to drop that?
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was the training.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: I think it was right.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Right before the 2010 race I met Scott Elliott, who was a past champion and he likes to take people under his wing and give them tips and help out.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: So between 2010 and 2011, he helped me out with training a lot and we started to do weekly intervals in Boulder in the spring on Linden Road, a really steep paved road.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: So it was continuing to put in more structure like more workouts, you know, shorter, high intensity bouts.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: I was doing more mileage, more vert.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: So it was taking all those pieces that go into a good training plan and elevating them a little bit.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: And I was starting to discover this nice little rhythm throughout the year that if I did road kind of more road running in the winter to get some speed and some road races, and then in the spring I started training for Mount Washington, which I usually raced in June, and I incorporated uphill treadmill running once a week and those high, intense hills intervals that would get me really fit for a Mount wash and then after that I would shift it to higher elevation running.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: So it was kind of discovering like what worked throughout the year and having those that periodization and then within that specific block really nailing the hard workouts, jogging on the other days and just doing all those things that yeah.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: That's amazing that you read about but you don't do.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: That's amazing.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: You were able to put together kind of it, just almost the pieces of the puzzle to make sure you know, to kind of work for you.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: It's funny.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: So I just had Joe on the pod and we talked about we did.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: I glanced over Mount Washington but we didn't go into it.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Do you think maybe you can elaborate and talk a little bit about Mount Washington and just like how special of a or like a race that is um?
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: And just yeah, can I talk about that a little bit?
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really cool race.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: It's it's like the Pikes peak of the Northeast.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: It's 7.6 miles on a paved road, although there is a section that's really nice dirt.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: So it's not all paved, but primarily paved, and it averages about 12% grade, which is insanely steep for a paved road.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: You can't find anything like that in Colorado, um, and it's a.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: It's a pretty big event, um, and their tree line is about 3000.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: So you start in this thick, um, new England forest and then about halfway through the race you pop up a tree line, um, and it's just, and then it ends with a 30% pitch, um, to get to the top and it's, it's just so brutal.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: It is a brutal race.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: I think it's harder than Pike's peak in a lot of ways because you have to have, like, the quick turnover, but you're going up such a steep Hill and there's just no break, there's no letting off, there's no downhill, there's no flat section.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: So if I I always felt like if I could get through that race, bike speak is easy.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: And the thing about Mount Washington too.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Like, obviously for the elites it's easy to get in, but for, like, your average person isn't there?
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Like a like it's hard to get in, right?
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I've never even looked into it.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there is a lottery.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what a cool historic race.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: I yeah, Like I said Joe.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Joe and I were just chatting about it and I was like man maybe one put that on the calendar.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you should.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: I wish more people from Colorado could get over there to do it, because it's a really sweet race.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: They started with a Canon boom.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what's it like at the top?
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: It just has a lot of character, do they?
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: drive you guys down after you get to the top, or is it yeah?
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: they have buses and it's notorious for having horrible weather.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: So there's been years where it's like 50 mile an hour winds.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: One year it ripped my bib.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: The wind was so strong.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: One year the fog was so dense you couldn't see more than 20 feet.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Last time I did it, they had to cut it short in 2022 because the top was totally iced over, so you have that to contend with too.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: It's crazy weather, super fun, especially June, and June in that area of the country is like you would think it'd be warm, but no.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it can be warm down in the valley, but then you go to the top of that mountain and it's just crazy.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so funny Cause like people like, especially like people in colorado like I'm from the northeast sorry, I'm from the northeast, so oh, you are cool.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Where are you from?
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Pennsylvania, so like, for me I don't know, like I never grew up thinking they were like I think you think of like vermont or like the poconos and pennsylvania and stuff like that.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: But like you, for I don't know, at least growing up I never heard about mount, and so I came out here and like people are compare mountains and stuff like that, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, joe was the one who really taught me a lot of that stuff, cause you know, there's race, the cog race now, which is like a VK like all kinds of stuff that looks pretty cool.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's one week after Mount Wash, I think, so they have like a combined race too.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: If you do both of them, that's cool.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: It's nice to see the progression of the sport in the country, where we're starting to get like more uphill, more vertical races, more VK yes, stuff like that oh, I know I wish that we had more.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: There used to be a really cool VK in Aspen that was part of the Audi power four, yeah, aspen, that was part of the Audi power for pretty much followed the America uphill track, but in the summer it was awesome.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: They need to bring that back.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Listen, I, I've been.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: I.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: So one of my teammates on the last part of the team is Joe to more and he used to work for Aspen mountain.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: And every time I've seen him I lobby same thing.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: I'm like can race be a thing Like, why not?
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: It's weird to me, cause you kind of like, you somewhat, kind of live in that greater area, if you will, is Eagle gypsum.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: That's not that far from there, is it as like?
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: yeah, we're like 10 minutes apart, Okay Okay.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: So it's all pretty close, but like, why is it that we don't have a summer race but like we have all these like winter uphill races?
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: I know that's such a good question I don't know.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: You would think that and the ski resorts are pretty.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: They're pretty stingy on what they allow, so you would think that they would be more open to it in the summer.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to like I don't know.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: I've like looked around cause I think like the next iteration of this podcast is hopefully one day going to be race directing, like starting like a race series or something under that.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: So keep an eye out.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: We're going to, we're going to do a proper VK.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Yes, okay, yes, please do Well, america's uphill right?
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: You said something to be there.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we got to do something.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I'll be at the.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Is it the?
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Whatever the winner one is this year, I'll go the one that's in March I guess it's America's uphill that's yeah, and Aspen yeah.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, I've been spending a lot of time on the incline recently trying to get strong.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Oh cool.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's the best way.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Do you do multiple repeats?
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: So what I've been doing is like I've been trying to like experiment with like double threshold and stuff like that, where I've been doing these like hard up to the first bailout, where I'll do like, uh, pretty much a threshold and then drop down.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: I've done a lot of like full, full on incline repeats.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: You know, what I've noticed and I was actually on the incline yesterday and I was thinking about this is there's just nothing you can get to simulate that like middle steep section, like you gotta just do it.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: You know, yes, if you go to the first or second bailout, you're really not getting the whole thing you got it yeah.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: You got to just do the whole thing.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, yeah, I, I'm so envious of that.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: I wish we had one out here.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: It's so unique.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's a one of a kind.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: It's a great stimulus.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: So let me get back.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Let's get back to pikes.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Cause I Well, I'm so curious to see like so later into the block.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: Now you're starting to get more specific.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: For for pikes I did like mile repeats.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: I'd from summit lake do you know where that is?
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, up to the top I think there's four, four or five miles.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: So I would run a mile.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: It's I don't know maybe like at that point six or seven percent grade and I'd run it fast, like in the 6, 6, 30 pace and then I'd stop and I'd wait and then I'd run another mile.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: So I did mile repeats up.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: I did half mile repeats up.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I would.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Well, they used to have the cog, would let you take a halfway ticket and then you'd run over to bar camp.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: So I would do that a few times and do like three minutes hard, two minutes easy.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Three minutes hard, two minutes easy.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: I do mile repeats on the top half of pikes.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: So the years I did better.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: I it was definitely more focused on shorter intervals at a higher cadence.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: I think later in my pikes peak career I started to get excited about running other 14ers fast, like doing little fkts, which is really fun.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: But I don't think that was ideal training.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Kind of took too much out of me, and then I was lacking the leg turnover.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so interesting what you have to sacrifice for.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like that, it's, it's that, I don't know.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: If you get too specific, then you're sacrificing what you could have in fitness for other things.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: It's like it.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: It that kind of hand off yes, right, and even sacrificing what's more fun.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: More fun to go try an fkt up a 14er or go two minutes on, three minutes off, like that's not as much fun but it might prepare you more for the race yeah, let me ask you this when were you?
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: so you were?
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: What?
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: So you?
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: This would have been?
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: You cracked the record.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Your fourth go.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: I think that's right.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, your fourth go.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: It was 2012.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: So it would have been your fourth one from 2009.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: At what point in time were you starting to think about okay, I can get the course record.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, because you were already pretty darn.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, you were within 10 minutes of striking distance in 2011.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: So at what point in time did you start thinking like, oh, I can do this.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Well, I think in 2011, I wanted to see what I could do, but I didn't want to put too much pressure on myself.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: I knew I was fitter than I was in the previous years.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Um, and I think Scott Elliott thought I could get the record, and then that year I ran like 30 seconds over, so it left me really hungry.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: And that winter I, after Pikes Peak, I focused on road running and I ran a road marathon in December and ran my PR.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: It was like right under 246.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: I was trying to qualify for the Olympic trials and I made it by four seconds.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Olympic trials, um, and I made it by four seconds.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Wow, oh, my God.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Oh, I died, I died.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: I could only run about 60 miles a week without getting injured, so I did not have the wheels to make it 26 miles.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: So I hit mile 20 and it got ugly and I remember rounding the corner and seeing the clock and it was like two, 45 and I'm like I'm not going to make it and just my arms and legs are flailing.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: I was so toast, but I made it by four seconds.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: So I think I had the leg turnover and the road running speed after that winter of 2011, 2012.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: And then that spring I built into the intervals and the treadmill tempos that I always did for Mount Wash and then at Mount Wash I think I ran my best time that in June.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: So that was a good indication that I'm fitter than I was last year and I think everything I was doing I was just I was surpassing what I had done the previous year.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: So I felt pretty confident going into 2012, 2012.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: I can't believe that was so long ago.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: So so and.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: I, yeah, it is, it is cool.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Um, we moved.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: At that time my husband was in med school, he graduated, so we moved to grand junction.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: So I was kind of a nomad that whole summer and I wasn't teaching and I just nailed the training and I put in a lot of training, like a lot of 70 mile weeks with 15, 20,000 feet of vert with workouts, um, and I felt really good.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: So, going into the race I I didn't want to put a number to anything, but I felt confident and I felt really fit.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Um, I went by effort, like I always did, and when I would check my watch it was like, oh my gosh.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: I remember getting to bar camp at in 112 and thinking like I'm either going to explode or this is going to be an amazing day.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: And then I think I ran the top half in about 112.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: So it was just one like the most magical, perfect day where I was sitting on that red line the entire time but I never fell over it and my head space was really good, my body felt great.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: So I only looked at my watch a couple of times cause I wanted to stay focused and I I remember getting to the top and seeing the clock and not, I mean, that was not something I was expecting.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's so crazy.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: I was like I think I can be under 234, but I did not expect that time.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Well, it's just wild to me because, like, less than a handful of people have ever even cracked 220.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Like it might even be less than that.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: I think, it was or 230 for women.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's bananas.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, when you think about how fast that I think it was nanky might have cracked to 230 she did, yeah, she did, and I think, I think um mod matthews, yeah but that's so, I mean, but like, think about, like that's I mean you're talking the upper echelon of of mountain runners in the world, like that's.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: That's rarefied air, I mean in thin air, yeah, yeah.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was me and at the time I was coaching grand junctions high school cross country team and I remember talking to the kids about that and just saying, like work hard and you never know what's possible Like this was.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: This surpassed my wildest dreams.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: I never expected to run that time and they had put a $5,000 bonus on that time a few years before.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: So I ended up making $8,000 from that run and I was 28.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: That was a good chunk of change, so it was just a really magical day.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: I was really grateful for it.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Would you say the record day was more life-changing for you than the first run at it when you got second.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say the first run like started, started the journey and that run, like you know, as amazing as it was, it was also like a little curse too, because I never got close to that again and I I really had to work on my mindset because it felt like always a disappointment after that, like ah um 2016,.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: I doubled, so I ran like a two 35 in the ascent, and then the next day I ran the marathon and I ended up winning that, which was amazing Cause I suck at the downhill Um, but even that, like, what a great day.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: But there was a little part of me that's like ah, I didn't do well enough.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Like two 35,.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: You know, that's 10 minutes slower but so fast, oh my God so so it did skew the perspective a little bit, you know.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, um, but.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: I, but I was able to work through that.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean just be grateful for what I can do.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Maybe, if you don't mind, like unpack that for the audience.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Cause like this is.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: This is such an interesting um, it's just an interesting conversation because, yes, you achieve this mountain top, you're still at the top of your game in a lot of ways and you're still, I wouldn't say, chasing the ghost of Kim Dobson, but that was such a special day in history that it's got to be hard trying to look more than other people.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: And I love to push myself.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: So it it made me just so hard on myself.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: It was like I didn't want to take a break that winter.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: I wanted to keep pushing and keep moving up in the fitness scale rather than like letting my body rest and, um, recuperate, like I should have that winter.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: So it did mess with my mind a little bit and then I did get really fit again that next spring, but I had a pretty bad injury at the beginning of the summer of 2013 due to some of what we're just talking about, like just putting so much pressure on myself and pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: So I was very injured that summer just hiking a lot and I still ran Pike's peak, um, but it was much slower and I couldn't.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: I couldn't run.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: I couldn't run on flat ground because I had like a probably like a partially torn hamstring did something to it.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: But, um, I but, I remember hearing somebody say like what happened to Kim that year, she was like 17 minutes slower.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: So I was always hearing those things, rather than like you still are able to run and win even though you're injured.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: You know, I always found like the part to improve on or to criticize myself on.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's got to be hard.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: You know, it's just something I wish I asked Joe as well.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: It's like what is that?
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Like it's gotta be so hard Cause you're in such a public light.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, having won that race as many times as you have, like a lot of people knew who you are and that's gotta be very hard as a person to be judged right or in the judge yourself.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and we want to do our best, but we can only do what our body's allowing us to do.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Right, and that can really vary.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Especially on that mountain, like literally.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're talking and this is with the barometric pressure.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: If you have a bad pressure day, like you could run five to 10 minutes slower, you know.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: Just with it I can't remember it's low pressure or high pressure, I don't.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: I think it's low pressure or high pressure?
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: I think it's low pressure.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which way is which?
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah it screws me up.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, if you have.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: If you have like kind of a backwards day, you could.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Just as you know, you'll run five to 10 minutes slower and that's with no change to your physiology whatsoever.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: It's just there's nothing you can do, you know.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: So let me ask you this this is something I've been thinking about a lot, because you said you were in Grand Junction in your buildup to the record year.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Were you coming out of it?
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we moved there the beginning of the summer of 2012.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm glad that you asked that, actually, because I thought about this before.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: So, since I wasn't working, like I would go stay in town and it was like a hundred degrees, and so I kind of feel like I got a little heat training while I was down there, and then I would go up to the mountains and like spend three days or a week up in the mountains training and then I would go back.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: So I had this like neat back and forth, which I think helps me from you know, if you spend too much time at elevation, that can be detrimental.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: So I think I just nailed that balance of high altitude and going back to grand junction, which is like 4,000 feet elevation, and having that oxygen to take in and the heat to adapt to.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Um, I think that balance worked out really well.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: It sounds it too.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's that old moniker like climb higher.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: What is it?
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's climb high and then sleep low, or something like that.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, train or train train low, sleep high.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: So it's, and I and you can get that adaptation too with um, you know, with it being so hot, I don't know it's the sauna effect too.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: It's going to increase your blood volume so you can get super fit.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't know, I love that physiology stuff Like how you can optimize and as much ways and that's kind of the neat thing of um of just the repeating a race so many times is you can analyze the data and the variables, and you can.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: We never know for sure what causes a great performance or a or a and the variables, and you can.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: We never know for sure what causes a great performance or or poor performance, but it's fun to play around with all that.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: It is, it is and it's.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: It's so interesting too, because so many of the world's best mountain runners have come out to throw down on this course, so there's other person's data too that you can look at and get an idea of it.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's, and you can I mean, you can look at the greats of the past and see like it's wild.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, were you coming out Like?
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: so it's just interesting to me because, like you know how Matt Carpenter was, he was very much train on the mountain sleep on the mountain, live on the mountain kind of guy, Whereas like it sounds like you were more going to other places and doing other things for that training, yeah.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: I could look back and count in my running logs, but I probably ran like six times on Pikes Peak, like in 2011 and 2012.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: And I would do a couple on Mount um, mount Evans, um, I would run Grayson Tories, uh, we'd get down to Telluride trail and I do repeats on that, down to Telluride trail.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: And I do repeats on that Um, before in 2012, um, I did three repeats on Telluride trail.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, telluride, that's, that's, and it's so steep, that's a great one.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's brutal.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if I'm thinking of the same one, I don't know if it's, I'm thinking of the one that's like close to um, oh man, uh, like by, just by the ski resort.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: That's like a 4,000 something foot climb.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Is that the one you're talking about too?
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: Um Teller trail.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it starts at the base of the gondola and then it's not 4,000, it's like 1800 feet of gain and it goes to the top of the to the top of the gondola.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you could keep going from there, but I would just do.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: It's like uh, I think it was 2.3 miles and 1800 feet of gain.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: That's awesome.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: So I would do repeats on that, and then I'd ride the gondola down.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: So it was pretty awesome Go hard up and then ride down.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: You're not the only person that does it.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: I've seen quite a few like Michelino, since area is a great example.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of mountain runners do this, where they'll um, I guess, run hard up gondola down yeah, hard up gondola yeah.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: It seems to work.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: I mean it preserves the legs.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: so it does, it definitely does yeah.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you this For that year, when you were doing your Olympic qualifier, what marathon did you run?
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: CIM.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, sweet.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: That's a great course.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, it really was.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, road marathons are brutal.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not fun, not fun.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, have you ran many of them?
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: I've run one road marathon.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: We'll probably never do another one again, I think.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: I'm more interested in, like the 10.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: K like I think those types of like I like to do, like the mountain classic races and like now I'm dabbling more into the VKs and stuff like that, and I just feel like the 5k, 10k, probably more for me the 10k kind of just translates to those types of races.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, definitely yeah.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: And then the injury risk with a road marathon is so high it is it is and it's like.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's just that type of training is just on.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: It's just different to everything else, where you're just you're really just destroying your body.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: It's so hard.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and I I don't.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: I think if you could do it in the off season and run great on the trails in the summer, but I hopped in a trail race once during marathon training and it was a disaster because I you're like a metronome and you can't get over rocks and you can't change for ups and downs because your body just wants to get into that metronome.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, rhythm of a marathon.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: So I think you're doing the right thing with the 10 K.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, cause this is actually related to kind of some of that when, like when you were getting ready for a lot of these ascents, like were you in the gym a lot, did you do anything for like strength and power, or is it mostly running for you?
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: Uh, not back 2011, 2012.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: I did start a lunge matrix.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: I think I had seen Jay Johnson's lunge matrix routine and when I had my knee injury I was told I needed to strengthen.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: So I was doing like a lunge routine.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: But I didn't start um doing heavier weights till like after I had the kids and I don't do a lot, but I I do some and it's been really helpful.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: I think I have a hard time engaging my glutes so I have to do a lot of uh supplemental activity to try to get them strong.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just interesting to me because you talked to so many dominant mountain runners and some of the like.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Like Joe told me, he's like I'm in the gym sometimes but not a lot Like, whereas, like I just talked to Keith Smith, he's a um, uh, he's a ski mountaineer, which is a little bit different, but he's also a stud mountain runner.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: He's in the gym like four or five times a week, it was like.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: Oh interesting, yeah.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: So it's just interesting to me to see the kind of the you know difference in different people that are at such a high level that you know some people are in, some people are not.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: So really quick, I want to fast forward a little bit to 2022.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Cause I feel like out of all of the races that you've done, that one stands out to me, because that was probably out of all of them I would say, would you agree that maybe the most competitive with everybody, oh for sure, and you had a killer result.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: I mean you took top five and, like what was probably the most stacked one of probably two, the most stacked ascents ever so what was that?
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Like with all the euros here and that whole thing.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I guess I'll back up a little bit.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: The year before, in 2021, I tried the level 100 and I made it to like mile 60 and I had to drop because my hip and knee were a mess, um, but I feel like I never quite got my body back to a hundred percent after that Like.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: So I I was training with a lot of injuries in 2022, particularly my right ankle.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: The tendons were really struggling and it was okay in the spring, but right before Mount Wash it really flared up.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: So the whole summer I don't I was running like 20 to 40 miles a week.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: I wasn't able to quite run as much as I wanted to, but I had a high level of fitness and I was doing some cross training to supplement.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: But I had a high level of fitness and I was doing some cross training to supplement.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: And then I did some shorter races that were about an hour long.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: I did, um, mount Wash uh, the rendezvous he'll climb in Jackson Great race.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: I love that race, that is such a cool race yeah, such a cool race and Mount Baldy out in California.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: Yep, yep.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: And Joe was at that one too.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: I think he was at all three of those, so I saw him a lot that summer.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: Um, mount Baldy is really cool too, if you ever get a chance to do that one out in California on the list, um, and those, those all went really well, but I don't think I quite had the fitness for like the length of Pike's peak, um.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: So I knew that going in Um, but I tried to block out the noise because there was a lot of it with the golden trail series, um, and I felt like I was doing a pretty good job.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: But the night before at the pre race, like they introduce everybody, I remember my heart was racing so hard.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my gosh, I am not used to this environment because it's so intense, yeah, and most mountain races are pretty like low key and they really drum it up.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: So I was nervous.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: I think I did.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: I did the best I could controlling those nerves.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: I think I paced it pretty well.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: I was hoping to run a little bit faster.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: I felt like, based on all of my training times, I should have been under two 40 and I think I ran two 40, two 40 flat.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, pretty close, so I was hoping to be a little faster again.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: It goes back to that like a slight disappointment, because you know what you have done in the past.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: But when I zoom out and look at, look at it with a different perspective, I feel like it was pretty, pretty good performance oh my god, I mean like as a fan of the sport, I would put that up there in top.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: I mean well, yes, it wasn't your fastest one, I would put that because it's just that stacked field was just so competitive yeah, that like, yeah you could I mean that's, that's something you got to be proud of.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: I mean top five yeah the most stacked women's field of like one of two of the most stacked women's field all time at.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: That race is crazy yeah, it was, and it was neat to just see these runners like they're so talented, I mean yeah and to know who they are through social media and reading.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: I won far race results and then get to line up with them was really cool yeah, it's so, so crazy.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: I mean we'll see what happens in the future with if they ever come back with a golden trail or not.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: But yeah cool, what are your.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: So this kind of leads me into like your 2025 and like what, what plans have been, and like how's training going.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: Like are you, are you, do you plan on ever coming back to the race?
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Or like what are your future plans?
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: Oh man, I feel like the last two years have been almost a comical joke of like solving one injury and then moving on to the next one.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: After Pike's Peak I had pretty bad patella tendonitis in my left knee and ankle tendonitis in my right foot, and you know I'm 40 now.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: So I was warned that, like the tendon properties change as you get older and I'm like, oh yes, you were right, it's hard because it's like you can they warm up and feel okay, but you are steadily compensating.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: So you're kind of developing poor biomechanics, you're getting weak in certain areas.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: So I definitely experienced a lot of that for a year.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: But I was starting to get better last fall and I signed up for the Blue Sky Marathon Trail Marathon in Fort Collins and I sprained my ankle really bad, like the kind where it's like a balloon Um and I that was the third time I've sprained that ankle so, um, I took a few months and got back into running January of this year and my hip kind of was bothering me and I sort of just ran through it like I shouldn't have Um, and then just developed like a lot of issues around my right hip.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: So I feel like right now I'm just trying to piece my body back together and not make any plans but just get feeling well again.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: Um and I had some various like um prehab things.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: I would do that I got away from when I would have little various injuries.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: So I'm trying to get back to those because in the past those have worked to keep me injury free and and hopefully put the piece puzzle back together and the body back together and then just see what I can do.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: But that's cool.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Just feeling well and um, I think my mindset is is shifting from performance to longevity.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: I don't want to jeopardize running because I love it so much for for race or for performance.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: Listen, I totally understand.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: You gotta, I mean like that type of stuff.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: First, you know you have to care yourself and you know, and I think once you're you know, I don't know, cause it's gotta be tough mentally too to you know constantly.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: You know, I know, cause I've every now and then I'll deal with an injury where I'm like calling my PT, like crying my eyes out, like, oh my God, what's wrong with me?
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: It's not fun, you know.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: So it's tough mentally to be in that place, Um, but yeah, I, I look forward to uh, to when you're back to a hundred percent back out of pike.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I hope to bump into you at America's uphill this winter, absolutely, maybe the veil hill climb.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: Have you done that one?
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: I've never done it, but I my my plan was to do that as well.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: I was going to do summit for life and and I was had a great yeah, I had a great build going.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: And then we went to hawaii and I got bronchitis and like oh no completely missed, like two weeks of training, and I was like yeah I probably could go, but I want to see like I'm one of those people that, like I, want to be at a hundred, even though you're never at a hundred percent, I like yes, I get it as close as possible.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, we'll see what happens.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: I definitely veil hill climb and definitely, uh, barring any freak illnesses or injuries.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: I hope to be there.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, totally.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: They added a new um uphill at Beaver Creek last year, which I did.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: I did their three winter uphills and I hope to do those again.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: Um, it's pretty awesome.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: It goes up.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: It's very similar to the veil hill climb like two miles, 2000 feet of vert.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: But it's early January so it's like barely light out.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: When it starts it just feels like carnage, it's freezing cold, it's snowing and it's dark and.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: But it's a lot of fun.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: If you're looking for something else to do, Got to do something in the winter.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, my plan is like yeah is like that, I think right now um, it's like taking a step back, focusing on like okay, let's get really, really fast in the 10k and also, at the same time, try and like.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: I'm like got this weird idea of like, okay, I want to somehow set a pr in the 10 K but also set a PR on my incline.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: So let's see what happens.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: But well, you know, I'm kind of, I was like getting very experimental with my training, like trying to figure out what works and what doesn't.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: Me too.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: That's a big part of it, just having fun with it and experimenting.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: It's crazy.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: I've been diving into this uphill athlete book like a madman, trying to like take all these little tidbits and like changing different things.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, it's crazy, because you see these who writes that?
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: book.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: You know what?
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: He just followed me.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: I was like really excited too when he followed me.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: Hold on, I'll tell you right now, yeah, I'm like, ooh, I need to read that one his name is Steve house, Steve house.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: He's the author of the uphill athlete and four-time apparently.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: Um, but yeah, it's a it's like a fat book, but it's, it's got.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's got some stuff in there from like Killian and Killian's training and like just different people over the years and like what they've done but it really breaks down Like for me I think my thing was more better educating myself and like how much time we should be spending in like that lactate threshold and then zone three and then kind of layering that in with zone four and like I already have the aerobic components down, but it's more so.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, exactly mathematically, like how much time should we be spending at these certain?
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: I think so make this work Totally.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: It's fun, I don't know.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I always enjoyed that with Mount Wash training because it was a little bit more standardized.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: Being on a treadmill or an uphill road, like I just knew the numbers and I knew what percentage of time I was going to be spending.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Seriously, and that's the thing too is like the amount of I'm like I used to do a ton of uphill running and I've almost like dialed it back now to where I'm doing more, just like for working on economy, like a lot more flat stuff just to improve the economy and doing as much of that as possible now that I'm in the off season.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: I'm working on that a little bit more too.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: I used to just hammer the uphill so much and that worked for a while, but I feel like in the last few years I did that for so long I've developed like some weaknesses and I've overused some tendons.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: So I'm trying to just get back to like a good, good economy and running efficiency.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: You know, my mind was Jeff Kuno, cause he was like you know what man he's like.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: I was doing the same thing and the one thing he noticed he said to me that he noticed in himself was that like he would get um just take more lazy steps and like your form wouldn't be as efficient and things like that on the uphill Um, and I noticed that in myself where it was like maybe I got too specific too early in the last season's block, like the block leading up to um a lot of the Cirque series races and stuff, and I was like I could totally see that that makes sense.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it's it's a fun little puzzle to solve right.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: Do you ever experiment with uphill pavement?
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: No, no, I probably should.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a good way to get to keep accountable to good form and high cadence.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's true, because, like, especially it's hard on a trail because you're like you said, you're stepping all over the place.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: It's not even whereas, like if you're on.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: I mean it makes a lot of sense that your economy would be significantly better if it is on a road.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: I think mentally we get on the trail and we we relax a little bit.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: But on the road you feel like, oh, here I am, I got to hammer it Got to be fast.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah Well, all right.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: So we're, we're almost at, we're getting close to an hour, so I just want to ask you a few ending questions I'm very kind of curious on.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: The first one is who inspires you?
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: Ooh, oh man, is this in the running world or in in?
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: general Could be, could be family, could be kids, could be anything.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, my goodness.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, there's so many people that inspire me, so that's a hard one.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: I'll pick my husband for the reason of he's just so good at giving his time to a lot of things.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: He's a doctor, so he'll work long hours at work and then he'll coach our son's sports team, and then he'll leave on a Friday night and drive three hours to climb a mountain the next day, and then he'll come home that night and he just goes, goes, goes.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: And I think he knows what he values and he he doesn't gravitate towards comfort, convenience, he just um lives a full life.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: Just gets out and does it.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's cool.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: He inspires me too.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: That's I love that.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's cool, it inspires me too.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's cool.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know how people balance all that stuff Like that's.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: Uh, I just, I just got married this past summer and uh congratulations, Thank you, Thank you.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: We don't have kids, we just have dogs.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: But still, I'm like God.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: I find myself so busy.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know how people with kids do it.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, impressive.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: I know it's, it's a lot of things, but it's all worth it and just got to keep your priorities and your values.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: That's true, Is it actually?
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: This is one question I meant to ask you that I must've slipped.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: My mind was with kids and training at such a high level.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: Was that difficult for you, or is that difficult for you?
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: I was lucky that I did not work when I had my kids were little.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: So I had children but I had that space in my life and when they were little and I was with them all the time, I think it almost helped my training.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: I had to logistically figure out when I was going to train but then I was just so happy to be out the door and like, have some freedom and some personal time.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: That it it helped the training.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: I felt like, and then and then just having such a deep purpose outside of running added a lot of balance to my life, it's true to the balance.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: I feel like the balance kind of just takes the pressure off in a lot of ways.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it did?
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: And then before races, if the kids are with me, like you're so distracted by them you don't really have the time to get nervous.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: That's cool, All right.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: What, uh?
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: So here's, here's a fun one.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: What, um?
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: Like what's what's?
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: Like you're good, You're getting ready for a workout, or like a hard effort, Like what's the song you're listening to.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: Ooh, I got to pull up my playlist, so I would.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: I don't listen to music outside, but when I work out inside I do, and when I would do the Mount Washington treadmill tempos I would always make like a playlist that really inspired me.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: Um the last, the last year I did it that song cloud.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: Do you know that?
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: No, I don't.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: Okay, let me.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: Let me look up who it is.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: By For some reason that one really got me.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: You know, I got to send you that my playlist, cause I definitely had uphill treadmill playlists.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: I got to put this one on my Spotify.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll send you a.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: Uh, some of my favorites all right, cool, all right.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: So I'll look those up, excited to see you.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, all right.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: So I've got the music.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: I have another one that I completely just slipped my mind of a question I was gonna ask you.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: Sorry, no, no, oh no I got it because it I got it Cause it was a good one.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: It was, it was a good one.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, so, as I don't know being so like having like such a historical record and having achieved like so much in the sport, I'm curious to see if you have any advice, whether it be for young women, young men that are just getting into the sport and are interested.
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: One very practical piece that I've told people and I would tell myself if I was to go back when I was 25, is to invest in taking care of your body with professionals.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: I wish I had seen PTs or got an MRI for that crazy injury.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: That I never did.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know why, but I just didn't seek out medical help or experts for those things and I'm fairly injury prone.
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: So it was a lot to navigate on my own and I think if I could have gone back I would have sought out help more.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: And then the other piece would be just staying true to why you're doing it and understanding why you're doing it and what's helping and hindering what you want to get out of running, especially with social media nowadays that's a lot of pressure and it can be a negative thing for so many people.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: So figuring out how to navigate all those pieces competition, social media, personal expectation because it's a great sport and hopefully it'll be a lifelong sport but there are some negative things that can creep in and steal the joy.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a beautiful answer.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: I appreciate that.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: So all right.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: Last one having been so accomplished, is there anything you still have left on the table that you want to do before whenever you call it good on running?
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's a hard question because I think I still love to run and push myself, but I have to get my body on board.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: I do want to do America's Uphill Every year.
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: My husband and I say let's get over there, but I want to make that happen this year.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, for sure.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: All right, I'm really looking forward to getting to meet you out there.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: I'm stoked, yeah That'd be really fun, but I'm open to whatever my body allows.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: Cool.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: Well, listen, I really appreciate it.
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: It was an amazing conversation.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: This was really fun.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it was super cool.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: Well, thanks so much, and I will.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: Uh, yeah, I can't wait for this one to come out and for the world to hear it.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds good enough for you in March in Aspen.
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: That's right, that's right.
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: Awesome, I'm going to end our recording now.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: What'd you guys think?
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: What a cool episode.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: I really look forward to having more conversations down the line with Kim um, as she looks to return to the sport in the next uh, next year or so, uh, coming back from some injury stuff, so hoping to have more conversations with her, hopefully one face-to-face, which would be really exciting.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: Um, I'd love to kind of do a format, just like, uh, what we did with Joe uh, joseph gray um, on a video format to kind of document.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: I always like having these documented ones that you guys can go back to on YouTube.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: You know, in video that you know for the greats, for the super greats and the ones that really really, really just stand out in the sport.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: Those are the ones that you know we want to look back on in the years to come, and just watch those episodes.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: It'd be kind of fun.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: So I genuinely, from the bottom of my heart, want to thank Kim so much for coming on the pod to have this discussion.
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: She is on Instagram.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: If you guys want to go look her up, give her an Instagram follow.
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure how she feels about that and having too many people reach out to her, but she is a fun follow and, just like I said, a really inspiring and interesting human in the sport, having achieved such great things, um and uh, yeah, and just continues to.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: Um, so yeah.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: Also want to give a big shout out and a super big thank you to a friend of the podcast, um, and amigo of mine, um, mr Jeff Cuno, who helped make this podcast possible, um, by helping get me in touch with Kim and uh yeah, so really means a lot to me.
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: Thanks, thanks, thanks, jeff.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, guys, before we get going, if you enjoyed this episode and if we brought you any value, if you wouldn't mind not only sharing this on Instagram that would mean a ton but also if you wouldn't mind giving us a five star rating and review on Spotify, apple or YouTube.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: The goal of this, of this podcast, is to be able to get this out to the world and cover this great sport that we love so much, and we can't do that without your love and support and being able to get a five-star rating and review, so that way, this gets shared across platforms and becomes more discoverable to people that are interested in learning more about this genre of our sport.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: So, guys, have a great rest of your week.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: Have a very Merry Christmas, have a very happy holidays.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: Whatever you guys celebrate, hope you enjoy it and hope it's an amazing one with your loved ones.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: We've got some fun stuff coming for you next week during the holiday week, so that would be fun.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't want to give away too much, but I hope you guys enjoy it.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: Thank you.