Latest / System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation / Therapy Update & Emails

Transcript

Therapy Update & Emails · System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Over: Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to long time listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
• 1:03
  I want to share what happened in therapy. It was so good, and I feel so much better. We did more shoop de doop, as the husband says. It was like a little EMDR. So we were feeling overwhelmed and a little bit flooded because of what happened in family therapy.
• 1:21
  And so it was overwhelming with all sorts of triggers just all over the place and a whole bunch of things stirred up. As we shared before, there were just about four or five questions she asked, and we posted a picture of this on the blog. And internally, there was like a chain reaction from each one. So all of a sudden, we had like 30 things going through our brain and just kind of exploding all over the place. It was super messy.
• 1:50
  It was highly unpleasant, and it was very, very dysregulating. We tried really hard to handle it, and I'm really proud of how we handled it and our efforts at, like, regulating ourselves and getting through it, but it was rough, you guys. It was brutal and unpleasant, and that's just gotta stop. So so the first thing we did was talk with the new lady about sending boundaries and family therapy so that family therapy is really about family therapy and not stirring up things internally. Then she did more of that waving her hand in front of us magic where we could think about being safe and think about being calm and think about those feelings that we have when we're in a good place and feeling safe.
• 2:55
  And it's interesting too because even then she's using the therapist as like our safe place, but also that's kind of triggering in a way because we're actually really sad about that. So the more we think about it, the more we're like waving our hands and thinking about being sad instead of being safe. I think that backfires and doesn't actually make us feel safe. So it's a fine line. And so we talked about that actually, advocating for ourselves and clarifying when we're going through the steps of trying to feel safe and trying to feel focused.
• 3:32
  And there's just a lot there that is grief and unsettling even though it is absolutely safe. And so making a broad enough picture to include safety even for the grief. That was really helpful, but it took a lot of extra work. And so it took a lot of times of doing it to sort of get to all of that place with all of those pieces. So I'm not sure if that makes sense, but it was kind of layers to us that it really wasn't just a one time magical thing that it's kind of like building a muscle and take some practice.
• 4:10
  But it really does help us clarify things and work through things and kind of get to a better place where things feel better, which is a change of pace after a really hard six months. And so when we talked with the new lady about wanting to feel safe, but also feeling sad, one of the things that she said is that we will actually be creating other safe places and kind of build on that so that it's not just the therapist's old office, which isn't even there anymore. Where we used to go, that is safe, but that will create our own safe places. And now I understand it's kind of what we did when the therapist helped us make the attic safer last year. Do you remember that?
• 4:59
  Everyone got to paint their own colors, and everyone got to add windows or hammocks or beds that were safe and comfortable. Everyone had clothes and blankets and light and music and anything that was helpful we were able to add in. We had enough food, things like that, things that helped different ones of us inside feel safe. We were able to do those things. So this was very similar to what we did with the therapist.
• 5:26
  We just didn't know it counted. But it was. It was legitimate. And so just like we built on that, and now we are adding sort of that office space because we were safe there, we'll continue to build safe places internally for different ones and for all of us together and even some kind of meeting space, which I know that Chris has talked about, like, a year ago, and we kind of learned a little bit about, but haven't officially done as far as I'm aware other than making a newspaper. So I don't know if any of that makes sense, and I feel like there's some walls up about something somewhere that's making it hard for me to share.
• 6:13
  I know it's a little flat and a little guarded, and I'm sorry about that. I'll try to work through that as we go. I think, though, that people are just anxious inside. People are just anxious that I'm going to say too much about those internal safe places, but we're not because that's for us and that's private. And all of you listening will have your own safe places that mean something to you.
• 6:37
  And so I don't need to share too much. So whoever's getting anxious about that, I'm not gonna describe things in detail. Just imagine using your imagination, you can create safe places for people to go and to feel safe when you think about them, even when you get triggered or something's going on. The other thing about it, though, that was really challenging was she asked where we could feel it in our body. I did not even know how to answer that because we don't feel our body.
• 7:11
  And so that's absolutely something we're going to have to work on and something we need to practice is being more connected to our body. We actually have some really good interviews coming up that I think will help with that. And the connection at least has started since the Mother Hunger and Dan Siegel podcast interviews last summer, that has helped us a lot, at least get in touch with it. So we are starting and we are trying and trying to be aware, but it's really hard to stop and think where you feel this in your body or where you experience this in your body when you don't actually feel like you're in your body. And so it's a really tricksy thing, and it took several tries to be able to get some sort of sensation.
• 7:57
  And we were finally able to say next to us, which is still not in our body, but we could at least feel that safety there. And we were able to recognize it's because the therapist sometimes would sit next to us. And so we were able to feel that. Or like on date night with the husband sitting next to the husband, there's that. Or cuddling up with the children sitting next to the children.
• 8:21
  Or sitting next to our friend when we go visit her house. And so there was this next to us safety feeling that at least is progress in sort of opening up our space bubble and letting people in a little bit, even if we're still not very good at physical touch or still not very good at receiving that kind of attention or care, it was a start, and we're making progress. And we could at least feel it. So that's what we're supposed to be practicing this week is feeling connected to others and feeling, that safety next to us and sort of start building on that so that we can bring that feeling more internal, I guess. And since we're going to be gone and out of the country most of March, we will get practice at feeling that, I guess, because we'll either have to figure it out or we're gonna lose it.
• 9:16
  So since we're gone for such a long time, it's really, really important that we practice this. And in fact, the new lady totally called us out on it because we were talking about needing to have our picture taken for the award at ISSTD. And she's like, you know, the reason this is hard for you is because you didn't finish the workbook. And so we also have the homework of finishing part four of the workbook, which is all about triggers and coping skills for triggers. So this is our new goal is that we are going to get our picture taken at ISSTD when we get the award, but we need to do the workbook pages and prepare for it.
• 10:02
  So we're working on that now, and we're practicing. We got pictures taken with our friends for our birthday, and we posted a picture of us on the Facebook page. And we're doing different things to try to practice and being ready. Again, it's not the picture itself that is a trigger. It's actual taking of the picture that's the trigger.
• 10:22
  So we're working through these things and practicing and doing some exposure and also some workbook work maybe since we didn't finish it. She's totally right. She called us out on that. We worked the entire year last year on the workbook. The workbook we're talking about is coping with trauma related dissociation.
• 10:47
  The one by Kathy Steele and the others. We worked all of last year through that workbook. It was so hard, and it was so intense, and it took us a really long time. And then when we went out of the country last fall, we didn't have the workbook with us. And we were right at part four and never really came back to it to finish.
• 11:06
  So she had every right to call us out on that. And so I guess it's time we just get that done. But here's the big piece, the really, really big piece from therapy that I wanted to share that was huge for us. Like, it totally blew my brains out. She said that we are not supposed to stop dissociating.
• 11:30
  We are supposed to dissociate on purpose. What? I'm not even kidding you. This is what she said. It totally blew me off the water.
• 11:41
  She said that what we are supposed to be learning how to do is dissociate voluntarily and intentionally instead of involuntarily or like being drowned by things. And so she talked about how dissociation was protective and how it is a good and natural response to trauma. And so since we are safe now, we don't want to be dissociating all the time because we're safe and there's not a trauma to respond to. But there is trauma in memory time. And so we want to be able to voluntarily and intentionally dissociate enough that we can expose ourselves to memory time while taking good care of ourselves in now time.
• 12:29
  Does that make sense? I tried to post about this on the Facebook page, and everyone got so lost in the discussion about what dissociation is or isn't that I finally just took it down because it wasn't what I was writing about. I wasn't talking about the different kinds of definitions of dissociation. I was talking about this technique in therapy of being able to intentionally and voluntarily dissociate to care for yourself while addressing memory time issues. So for example, creating safe spaces internally, going on rescue missions to bring alters or parts who are stuck in trauma time into a more safe place inside, or taking time to reflect and ponder about different things and sort of exposing yourself to tolerate some of the feelings that come with it, having meetings inside, practicing internal communication, and making containment places, which I'll talk about in a minute.
• 13:35
  But all of those are examples of voluntary and intentional dissociation. When you dissociate on purpose to accomplish a task internally so that you're doing well on the now time external world, but also able to expose yourself and manage by cooperating together in different ways some of the memory time traumas. Does that make sense? I may still not be clear about it because this is completely new to me, so that may be why everyone else was confused when I was trying to explain it because I don't understand it yet. It's that new.
• 14:18
  And I'm completely just seriously blown off the water that we can do it on purpose. I didn't know you could do it on purpose. I'm not sure we know yet how to do it on purpose, but this is what she's saying. So the next thing that we did along those lines was containment, which has to do with putting things away temporarily, not putting away people or alters or parts. But putting things away temporarily or putting things on pause somehow to help function, like at work or class or with the family or until your next therapy session or to help manage a trigger or something so that you can say this thing has come up or this thing is in my head or this piece is really hard right now, but I can put it away not to dissociate so much that memory is lost or that time is lost, but to put it away, to hold it in this containment space until I'm able to come back to it with help in therapy.
• 15:27
  Does that make sense? And so she talked about creating a box that was strong enough to hold something like that. For us, that was triggering. We couldn't do a box. We couldn't do, like, any kind of chest thing where something was put inside and locked away.
• 15:43
  Like, that was not gonna work for us. It was a trigger. But what we could do were drawers because the therapist had talked about drawers before. And notebooks. For us, notebooks are also a containment place because we can write things in the notebook and leave them there and then come back to them in therapy or not since we haven't ever done that.
• 16:06
  But we're working on it now. The therapist is going to start mailing us the notebooks back, and we can take them to therapy and work on them. And then the drawers or if you're using boxes, if that's okay with you, if that makes you feel strong and safe, then you need to think about how you can lock those until it's time to address them in therapy. Like, who like, are there keys? What kind of security system is there?
• 16:32
  Who can access them? Who has the keys? When can they access them? Do they need more than one person there to access them? How does that work?
• 16:42
  And then are those are those drawers or
• 17:00
  are boxes in a building? What does the building look like? How strong is the building? What is it made of? Are there windows or not? Are there doors or not? How do you get things into the building? How do you get things out of the building? And then are there guards that guard the building? Are or is the building hidden or camouflaged?
• 17:08
  Where is it? How do you get there? All of those kinds of things. And then are there regular times that you can visit those things that are contained or put on pause or put away until it's time to address them in therapy? So for us this was a completely new idea.
• 17:26
  I get that it has to do with the internal world and imagination and dissociating on purpose, but the idea that you could do that intentionally completely just, I was just shocked. I was baffled. And now I understand how the husband can do that, like when he talked about giving one of us a tree house. And now I understand how the therapist was able to do that for our rescue missions to get certain little ones to safer places. And I understand a lot more how that's even possible.
• 18:01
  And I was kind of glad that she said it because we didn't initiate any of that conversation. And since she said it and I had already heard from the therapist and from the husband in different ways on this, then I was kind of able to believe her when she talked about it because otherwise, I would have thought I was just making this up. That, like, oh, it's just imagination, so it doesn't count as anything. But it really, really helped, and it really, really lightened the load. So we did some of this, and we did it with EMDR as well.
• 18:36
  And so, for example, what we worked on was the getting the picture taken at ISSTD. And so we locked that away and put all of those feelings and thoughts and the trigger layers with it. We were able to lock all of that away in a drawer and leave it there until we go back to therapy next week when we'll work on it some more. And we have two more sessions to work on it before we have to go to San Francisco. So that's really helpful.
• 19:05
  And what it left us with after we were finished was really feeling lighter and even brighter somehow and less burdened with it and it was kind of out of sight, out of mind. Like, we hadn't forgotten about it. It wasn't a loss of memory that we need to address this, but it was more like this intentional, everyone knows we're taking care of this, so there's no reason to get so worked up about it. We are all together agreeing that we need to talk about this and work on this. And so even though it's a hard piece, we have a plan, and it's contained to this space.
• 19:46
  So it's not going to get bigger. It's not going to come against us. We're not gonna get sucked into memory time all by ourselves. It's contained. It's safe.
• 19:55
  We're safe. And when we have help, we can go to therapy. And with help, we can pull that back out and address it again. So I don't know if that makes sense or if I'm even explaining it correctly, but that's what it was like for us. But what we did was sort of that also doing EMDR, which we were really careful and specific about what we were doing with it and with a safe and good therapist that knows about trauma and DID.
• 20:29
  So I know it can go wrong if you don't have an EMDR therapist who doesn't know trauma or who doesn't know DID but all of those pieces together are working really well for us so far. So we really spent most of our time on it. It took most of the whole time of just asking one question and thinking about it and making it and then doing EMDR again and then another question and asking about it and clarifying something and making something more specific and then EMDR again. Like, this was the process over and over again. Just simple questions, reflecting, and then the hand waving again.
• 21:09
  So I don't know how it's worked for other people, but, again, us, it was really, really good, and we felt much better afterward. So, basically, we worked on that, and it's made our whole week go better so that we are not at all stressed about ISSTD. The stuff we need to get done for it is done. There are things we need to print out for our poster, but we're working on them. And getting our picture taken and going to the award, I think it's just going to be a good time because the people there are so nice.
• 21:41
  Everyone we met so far has been so nice, and it's just going to be a fun evening, we hope. Right? So we're kinda not worried about it. Even though we recognize what's challenging and even though just a week ago we felt like it was going to be impossible. Now it just feels kind of okay.
• 22:01
  Like it's there, there's some challenges, but it's kind of neutralized somehow and that feels pretty magical to me. I feel like learning about containment really helped us know how to handle some of those feelings where sometimes it's called flooding, memories or where feelings or just sensations are kinda coming over you and you can't make it stop and it's too much, too fast, too big, and it's coming back and it you're not in the time and place to be able to handle it. And so it's really helpful in that way. The other thing that's really been helpful is having time on our own or time outside or time in our hammock or letting the littles have their time with toys or puzzles or colors or journaling or bullet journaling, all these different things, art, anything that's creative or expressive or somatic in our bodies really, really helps with some of that calming those things down. So we're learning a lot really fast, and I know these are random pieces to put in the podcast, but I wanted to not lose them, And I wanted to share them so that we could go over it again and listen to it again and keep practicing because we do not have the muscles for this.
• 23:22
  And it's a brand new thing that we're trying, and we'll see how it goes. One of the other things that really helps and is very kind of you are the emails. And so we have a few emails to read as well. The first thing is that so many people have written in about congratulations for the podcast award with the ISSTD, and we are super grateful. That's really very kind.
• 23:44
  Thank you for your support. It's going to be super scary but we will share from the ISSTD conference and so hopefully that helps us stay connected a little bit as we go and that we really just enjoy it and learn and everything stays super chill and goes very smoothly. We do have an interpreter and the accommodations that we need, all of that's been taken care of just fine, and everyone's been very patient and helpful with all of that. So thank you. Sarah says, hi, we're a system.
• 24:17
  Recently found your podcast and have been listening to past episodes. Listening to your timeline from the plural positivity keynote and was reminded of this journal article, we thought that Doctor. E, sorry Sasha, and possibly Molly might be interested in. It's an interesting look at the way women in indigenous Bedouin culture experience dissociation. A type of spirit is said to possess the woman.
• 24:44
  It is explained as a type of illness, but not one truly cured, only bargained with. Oh, that's interesting. The woman will spend the rest of her life living alongside the spirit personality with periods where it takes over the body. The women often have parties where a well known spirit may inhabit multiple women attending. This reminded me of the Western dissociation practice of creative fictive factive personalities.
• 25:09
  A known and culturally acknowledged entity is interjected. It also struck me as similar to how some Christian denominations experience the holy spirit as an entity that enters congregation members. For these who were born into strict Muslim society, the spirit personality often expresses wishes counter to her own. For example, in this culture, a virtuous woman is humble and does not smoke. However, the spirit possessing her may demand to smoke or dress in rich clothing.
• 25:38
  This sort of dissociation allows the woman to still be seen as innocent and virtuous by her community, but to still experience her independent repressed desires. The spirit personality may present as a man, a prostitute, or a woman from another culture with accompanying needs and wants. The article spoke to me because I feel that religious and cultural expectations of purity along with severe OCD may have caused our dissociation as a form of compartmentalization that keeps our hosts clean. I don't see much research supporting those of us diagnosed DID or OSDD, but who have searched our past thoroughly and found no history of abuse. If you find any, I would love to hear about it.
• 26:21
  Thanks, Sarah. And then she says the article is spirit and selves in Northern Sudan, the cultural therapeutics, a possession and trance article in American ethnologist, October two thousand nine. Thank you, Sarah, for the link and for sharing that. We just spoke on an interview in a podcast about similar things we've seen when we were in Africa last summer. So thank you for sharing that.
• 26:45
  Lorian says, I just came across your podcast. The first episode I listened to was maybe it was easier and completely broke down. Yeah. Life is brutal, you guys. I searched for something DID related to listen to, to help me as I was having quite a difficult day with my husband.
• 27:06
  You see, my husband has DID also with four tenets, as we call them. Your podcast is amazing and I cannot thank you enough for starting it. It gives me comfort to know that there is a way forward. Even though healing is journey, it is possible. Especially since the stars still shine in the night when the journey and valley is long.
• 27:25
  Oh, thank you. I'm so glad you found it. I hope you're able to find some of the episodes with the husband and able to listen to him for support and that that's helpful. Our friend Amber says, you won't be the weird person in San Francisco. That's really funny.
• 27:44
  Thank you. Kay and Company wrote, a series of unfortunate events. I left my wallet on the train. The mechanic told me to take my broken car to its final resting place, and then my backpack with the replaced credit cards and paycheck was stolen. Oh, no.
• 28:03
  Oh, my goodness. They say, I wanted to cry, but it was so ridiculous that all I could do was laugh. I thought about the way you add up all of the tragedies in your life and turn them into standup comedy. I am listening to the Family Therapy Podcast and laughing so hard I'm crying about your son drying the laundry in the oven and bringing you a basket of bricks. I so needed that and nothing makes me laugh like the way you turn tragedy into humor.
• 28:30
  Thanks so much. Oh my goodness. Okay. First of all, laughing and humor are totally count as coping skills and also just life is that ridiculous sometimes. Right?
• 28:44
  Barbara says, with awareness comes weirdness. It's like all of a sudden you realize you are this polka dotted person walking around in a monochromatic world trying to blend in. Oh my goodness. So true. I am failing miserably, so thank you guys for at least successfully navigating in a less polka dotted way.
• 29:02
  It gives me hope and I hope that makes sense. I don't even have words, it makes so much sense. That's a very good description and that's exactly how we feel too. And it takes a lot of work to just keep trying because it's just overwhelming and even humiliating even if it's not really, it feels like that sometimes. Like we're just never gonna get it right and we're never gonna fit in and we're not gonna belong to anybody and all of those feelings are there.
• 29:33
  But here's the thing that we've learned about feelings from the therapist is the feelings are real but they are not always true. So make sure that you're being gentle with yourself and present with the things that you're feeling. That's so funny to even say because how could we be any more present with all that awfulness. Right? Like, lives in us and with us all the time.
• 29:55
  But having compassion for yourself that in the context of what you have endured, it's a very normal response. Right? That's what they say. Amy says, Hi, everyone. I started listening to your podcast last fall and have been fascinated by your stories of strength, perseverance, and self discovery.
• 30:15
  I am a nurse practitioner in a rural Texas town. Although I've had trauma in my early teens, I do not have DID. I now know that I was meant to find your podcast. Today, one of my patients that I've seen for the past year finally felt safe enough to disclose that she has DID. I was so honored that she trusted me to tell her this.
• 30:39
  Her diagnosis is relatively new just a year and a half ago. She was recently hospitalized at the Ross Institute in Denton and said many glowing things about Doctor. Ross and his staff. I was thrilled to tell her about your podcast and that you had interviewed Doctor. Ross.
• 30:55
  As per your experience, I cautioned my patient to go slowly finding support groups and reading blogs and watching things on YouTube, as some of them are not safe, but I highly recommended she listen to your podcast. Thank you, thank you, thank you for sharing your stories. Do you have any advice for primary care providers on how to proceed? I was very cautious not to ask too many questions. I did tell her to please let me know if I say or do anything that is a trigger.
• 31:22
  I also said to feel free to introduce other selves to me whenever, if ever, they feel comfortable. Oh my goodness, that's amazing. You just won best nurse practitioner ever. So you did exactly the right thing, making yourself open and available, but not being intrusive or pushing too hard. And I think the only other thing I would add to that is to be aware that different insiders can have different blood pressures and blood sugars and oxygen levels and all kinds of things like that.
• 31:56
  It can be really, really different because it's such a physiological thing, and they're learning more and more about that. You can listen to the polyvagal episodes or some of the episodes that we've had with doctors and physicians. There's one coming up that's really good about this and they will explain more and more about some of those pieces, but just remembering that everybody's different. You did an excellent job, and I'm so excited that you were there for someone when they really needed them. That's amazing.
• 32:28
  That's amazing. I am so proud of you and so grateful for you. Thank you. Well done. Barbara says, can you kindly get out of my head?
• 32:39
  Once again, this morning's Turning Toward episode has frenzied us and I have no idea why. The smart calming part is deep within due to depression for systemic safety. Today's episode left us thinking about that and for us, there are layers of safety in place. So by the time we are stripped raw without those layers, people have usually become frustrated and given up. Not their fault, that is totally on us.
• 33:05
  What I don't like is how systems may be judged in a way leads to passive aggressive statements. It's personal for us as we do this push pull thing sometimes due to the undoing of those very safety layers in place. This isn't an excuse, just a reality. That is why we turn away from, to keep those around us externally from having to ride that very evident, but also very unintentional push pull roller coaster. No one needs that in their lives.
• 33:34
  We know as we live it. Miraculously, we have had a few in our lives that for whatever reason stayed on that ride with us. Talk about blessings. Wow. I will say that once all the dust settles and we are sitting there looking at the external people still on that roller coaster with us, hair a mess and eyes wide with shock, oh, I have to draw this visual.
• 33:57
  My mind is lost in that. So any cognitive thing I know, we had something else to say, but aren't that bad all the time. Thanks for the podcast and moments like it provides to people like us. Okay. That was tricksy to read the end because they switched while they were writing.
• 34:13
  So you can see that they were switching while they wrote, and so it was hard for them to finish. But, yes, it is really, really hard to stay connected to people because you know how hard it is to be you, much less have to deal with you. And so it's not just trusting other people or finding people with the capacity to love you well. It's also just caring about people and knowing how much work we are. So even that can isolate you from them.
• 34:45
  Except the people who care will stay and the people who care will do that work. And the healthier you get, the more you can do for them as well. So that it's a mutual edification kind of process and not just one-sided where you're taking, but that you also get to give back in some way. Kathy says, Dear System Speak, I am so grateful for you and for this podcast where you consistently share from the depths of your personal recovery. You are trailblazing right now, sharing generously your experiences, thoughts, insights, and feelings.
• 35:21
  You have a unique perspective on recovery, that of both clinician and survivor. I am listening to covert and overt today and hope next to listen to the new therapist. I understand all too well how I am or how I am not able to fully share all the parts of myself with various friends. When I was early in my recovery and having lots of symptoms and needing a lot of help and care, I believe this took a toll on my most important relationships with family and friends. When I became too much, people let me know it and I lost a few friends over it.
• 35:55
  Oh, I feel like we were just talking about this with the other email. I learned in time who I could or could not share with or how much to share with each person. I don't know what came first, my ability to contain my stuff better or my getting stronger, thus I could hold more on my own and carefully reach out to safe family and friends when I needed to. I have an extensive network of people in my life, but the reality is that only a few have been there for me. I do my best to alternate friends and family when I need help so I don't burn anyone out.
• 36:26
  This seems to work. I have slowly shared more of myself and parts of self with my husband, but really I think it is too much for him. I stress the word slowly here because that is very important. I know my memories, flashbacks, dissociative symptoms are really hard to live with. I'm wanting so much to heal because I want to stay married and connected with the person I love most, my husband.
• 36:48
  That's so true. Once you really find those people, then it matters. And we're like, we can't mess this up because it matters this time. Right? Like, we're not practicing anymore.
• 36:59
  Game on. This is for real. They said, I'm grieving and the most sad today because my trauma therapist is retiring. Oh, heartbreaking. And I'm currently researching and interviewing potential candidates for the new therapist.
• 37:14
  Do you know for us to find the new lady, we met with nine different therapists and we interviewed on the phone before that, like 11 plus the nine? Like it's really that hard, you guys. Many therapists say they work with trauma, but the minute you say you are healing from a dissociative disorder, they slam the door shut in your face and quickly give you a referral to another one who does the same thing. Yes, yes, yes. Only the bravest and most dedicated therapists undertake the specific education and training it takes to help those of us who are truly suffering from complex trauma or even worse, dissociative psyches.
• 37:56
  I'm optimistic I will find a good enough or possibly a great trauma therapist, but it is going to take effort on my part to reach out, ask for help, advocate for all the parts of self, risk being vulnerable, risk meeting with someone who might not get you and just might not be the best fit in person. You pick yourself up, cry, and try again. Oh my goodness, this is what we've been through for six months. What makes it especially difficult is there is an extensive history with too many therapists that were not helpful. The healthier I become, the better able I am to discern healthy from unhealthy therapists.
• 38:30
  Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's important that both therapist and client feel comfortable with each other so that we can get on with the business of healing from all the traumas and hopefully process or integrate traumas and parts of self. I just wanna be normal again. I see my progress and I know I still have a ways to go. Thank you for being their system speak and thank you for sharing as much as you do.
• 38:53
  Thank you for being the trailblazer that you are, and thank you for laughing. Your laugh makes me laugh. Lastly, it's okay to cry when you feel sad and are grieving the previous therapist. I know that I will remember her and carry things she taught me or said. At some point, we will always have to say goodbye to the therapist.
• 39:12
  You say goodbye and are strong enough to do that because of all the skills and tools the therapist taught you. I feel much better after crying and typing, thank you. Oh, Kathy, my heart goes out to you, and I wish you well in your search for the new therapist. Oh, Kathy wrote again. Dear system speak, I just finished listening to the new therapist and turning toward.
• 39:34
  I'm noticing you are feeling much calmer and connected. I'm imagining that finally starting with a new therapist after such a long transition over the winter was very painful and hard. I'm sure it will be an adjustment getting to know the new therapist and hopefully with time and continued effort on both parties, a deeper trust and connection will begin. How wonderful and good for you and your family that you don't have to drive four hours away both ways. You may recoup energy and time for self care or connections with your children, husbands, or friends.
• 40:06
  How wonderful is that? You know what? It really is wonderful, and we even had enough money saved from gas. We bought a coat. Yes.
• 40:13
  So that's a win. I'm so happy for you that you have five safe, loving, and present people in your life. I'm glad that you are enjoying a deeper growing friendship and growing trust in others. I too have been working on developing healthier relationships in general with myself, family, and friends. Your BFF pointing out how you are the one currently who is abusive or unkind to yourself in the present hit home for me too.
• 40:38
  I have mean perpetrator parts who are still very abusive. Fortunately, these episodes have decreased with inner communication, but also I have that and need to work on that still. I'm still working on the basics with communication and negotiation and trying to get to know other parts and listen better or respond better. It's really, really hard. Lastly, Laura Brown, PhD, wrote a very
• 41:12
  Lastly, Laura helpful book called Not the Price of Admission, where she discusses relationships and how to have healthier relationships. Maybe she could come on the podcast and share about her book and you might enjoy meeting her. Hey, actually, I know Laura Brown already, and she is gonna be on the podcast, but she's also one of my safe people I'm gonna connect with at the ISSTD conference. So Peter Barish, thank you for introducing me to Laura Brown. She's amazing. I was happy to hear that you reached out to Cloughton.
• 41:30
  He is wanting to do an interview when he's feeling better. We'll see if we get that arranged. That still hasn't happened. He is wanting to, and I emailed him again today, so we'll see. I enjoy these professional speakers that have to admit that hearing your own lived experiences from how you are actively working on your healing to be what has been most helpful for me.
• 41:50
  It is knowing you or others are working as hard as I am and that you struggle with the same issues and feelings that makes a difference for me. That makes perfect sense. Thank you so much. It's the connection and sharing, like it's an example of attunement, right? Even if it's through the podcast, you feel like others are in the same experience and are making it through even while you're trying to make it through.
• 42:12
  So we're not as alone in it. That's why we need each other. The other thing that we wanted to share was that we got some boxes in the mail at the post office, and so we wanted to share some of those things. Our friend who wishes to remain anonymous sent us a book and some stickers and some little puppets that are amazing, and the outside kids are already fighting over them. But we keep them in our office for just us, and they can play with them with us when they get to come visit the office.
• 42:46
  Because the office is cool, you guys. And one of the Donnas, our friend Donna said, I've been trying to get courage to write this and send this bracelet for a while. And after I heard your Facing Memory Time podcast, I instantly knew you needed it more than I needed to hesitate. Your struggles are absolutely so real, so heard, and so vivid for me. And I so appreciate your courage in sharing.
• 43:15
  How beautiful it is that your John Mark keeps you safe and also that your therapist checks in. Your husband was well spoken and brilliant and patient. What a gift on the family trauma episode. I made this bracelet, so I hope you can accept it. Strength and unity seem to be the foundation we all need.
• 43:34
  I hope you can maybe look at it, hold it, or just keep it or know it's there when you need it. It's also good for tangible grounding. Each bead separately makes a whole altogether. Keep being you. You're all incredible in TIS.
• 43:50
  Each bead has its own beauty together meeting in the middle with strength and unity. Thank you truly from Donna. Donna, that was beautiful. Okay. There's this purple little sack with a bracelet inside, and they are beautiful beads.
• 44:11
  I will post a picture on the Facebook page. They're beautiful beads, and it says, strength on one side and unity on the other side. That's beyond precious. Donna, that's so meaningful and thoughtful. Thank you.
• 44:29
  I don't even have words to tell you. Thank you so much. Our friend Lisa says, I saw a Facebook video of how these were handmade and I thought of you all. Thanks for all you do and for all you share. Oh my goodness, you guys.
• 44:50
  They're paintbrushes. They are amazing, beautiful paintbrushes. Oh, thank you. Oh, Lisa. I don't know if any of you are painters or not, but getting paints and paint brushes actually is really expensive.
• 45:14
  And it is hard work to paint well with old brushes. And so this is very special. This is very special. I am so grateful. These are just amazing, and I'm totally gonna cry.
• 45:34
  I'll post a picture of them as well. You've gotta see these brushes. They're incredible. Thank you, Lisa. That was so thoughtful.
• 45:50
  This card says, we know you all have been going through a lot these last few months, and we collectively wanna say thank you for all the amazing podcasts, humanitarian work, regular work, and parenting. You all truly inspire and give us hope on days we struggle to find it ourselves. We love and value you as a friend. We wish many blessings on your system and the whole family. Oh, that's from Megan and those.
• 46:17
  We love you guys too. Thank you. We need to do lunch again, Megan. She painted us a she painted us an elephant with the words now time is safe on it for our new office. How special is that?
• 46:47
  Here's a card that says, Emma, I had a certain someone on my mind you know, the nacho and dog loving one. Just let him know that even though Duke isn't a real dog, he is a Saint Bernard. And as you also know, Saint Bernards were bred to lead those who were lost when trying to climb the mountains home. Oh my goodness. That's so sweet.
• 47:09
  She sent a dog for Jean Marc. It's adorable. I will put it in the picture as well. Thank you guys so much. Really, really.
• 47:17
  This is special. It has been a very hard six months. I mean, life is hard for all of us anyway as survivors. It's true. And the last six months transitioning away from the therapist and moving home and being present with the family has been pretty brutal.
• 47:38
  It's also been amazing and very good for our family, and it has saved enough money that, get this, drum roll, guess what we got? We bought a coat. We were able to buy a coat because of the money that we saved not driving to therapy. And it's a huge thing. Well, it's a big coat, but I mean, it's a huge thing that we did this for ourselves.
• 48:02
  And so one of the things that we did this month when all of the bills were paid was that we were able to buy ourselves a coat. And we are so, so grateful and appreciate the support from so many. And now when it snows in Kansas City, we will still be warm. And learning to provide for ourselves the things that we need and to take care of ourselves even when we can't see the therapist anymore or when our heart hurts from grief that is normal and good and healthy as opposed to just trauma of something being taken away or something bad happening. It was a big lesson and a big growing up lesson and a big step in just becoming ourselves and reconnecting with the husband because we're home more even though we still travel for our work.
• 49:02
  And so it was absolutely the right decision even if it was a brutal one. And we adore the therapist and we will miss her. And I'm sure what is in our mind is just imagination as much as the rest of it from our perspective of therapy. Like, I know that's not even real life, but it was our life, and we are grateful for that sacred space, and it's something that we can take with us and something that we want to learn how to give to others. Maybe not in the same way we can't, but in our own way that's unique to us.
• 49:38
  And it's been very, very powerful. We are grateful to those of you who have been so supportive. And these sweet gifts are not even special because of the gifts. They're special because of your hearts that sent the gifts and the thoughtfulness and the meaningfulness that are a part of them that's from you to us means so much and helps us get through those hard times or remember that we're not alone. That even while we're trying to function so well, there are others who understand what it's like to struggle.
• 50:19
  And now even in our real life outside the podcast, which the podcast is pretty real, but but but with our friends, finding good safe people who understand but are also healthy and doing what it takes to take care of themselves and their families and remaining connected through friendship is a pretty powerful and special thing. And we're so, so grateful for all that we've learned in the last three years even while we're starting to dig in to new stuff with hard years ahead of us from the work of therapy. Because at the same time, there is for the first time a sense that it's setting us free, and I wouldn't trade that for anything. We are grateful for that even though it's so so difficult and so so awful. Sometimes it's very hard.
• 51:21
  So thank you for listening and enduring with us, and I hope that you take courage and hope from our journey together as we share on the podcast and listen to your stories as well. And we are headed to the ISSTD, and we'll be sharing with you what we learned there. Thank you. Thank you for listening. Your support of the podcast, the workbooks, and the community means so much to us as we try to create something together that's never been done before, not like this.
• 52:17
  Connection brings healing, and you can join us on the community at www.systemsspeak.com. We'll see you there.