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What's the Cardinals direction for 2025? · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Happy Friday, and welcome back to Cardinal Territory. I'm Katie
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Wu and that is the one and only Aj Presinski,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: a guest host today. Happy Friday. Indeed, Aj, thanks for
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: coming on the show.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Uh, no problem.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: You know, Katie, when you're a cardinal legend like I am,
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: you know I'm happy to do anything Saint Louis related obviously.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Well right, that's why I had to you know, big
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: guns and be like a Friday show. I got to
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: get the special the special guests. So I'm glad you're here.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: You know, I've had a lot of fun over the
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: last year or so on Foul Territory with you, so
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: I figured I would just cash in the favor request
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: and now we have a little bit of a role
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: reversal here.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: So thanks again for joining anytime. Happy to do it.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: Obviously part of Foul Territory Network. I guess we're calling
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: it now. We're proud of you, guys. We're proud of
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: you and Trevor.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: I'm just Matt. Trevor's not here. I mean I would
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: love to give him some grief.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Well that just means you can come on again, so
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: be careful signing up.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, disappearances.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: All right, let's get into it, because as a former Cardinal,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: you have a lot of I don't know, a lot
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: of connections to this organization, a lot of feelings about
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: the direction. And today on the athletic Ken Rosenthal of
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Fair Territory as well, he had this piece up today
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: and the headline, despite promised reset, Cardinals now find themselves
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: stuck in the middle. And it's a really fair column
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: done by Ken, in my opinion, probably one of the
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: most fair things out there. And before we get into
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: that age, I just want to ask, what's your opinion
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: of this kind of crazy offseason for Saint Louis.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: I never thought i'd see a time where the Cardinals
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: weren't trying to win, because the fans have come to
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: a point even the last couple of years when they
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: were down, they were trying. But I love what Ken
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: said about being stuck in the middle. You can't be
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: stuck in the middle, and you either have to go
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: complete reset or rebuild, whatever the Cardinals want to call it.
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: But you can't be stuck in the middle where you have,
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: you know, at best, the Cardinals maybe a little bit
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: over five hundred, I don't know. I don't know the
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: answer to that, because it depends on pitching. You know,
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: Michaelson and Matt's and Fetti and these guys in Sunny Gray.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: They stay healthy. But then where the run's gonna come from?
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: You know, Nolan Arnano plays still play because he had
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: a you know, he hasn't been as great the last.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Couple of years. So what what's the ceiling for this team?
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: And that's kind of what he means by being stuck
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: in the middle, is the ceiling isn't good enough probably
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: to win a World Series, but the floor is bad
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: enough to where you can still be not very good.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: And I think you don't want to be there as an organization.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: You don't want to be There's a team in it somewhere.
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: I never thought the Cardinals would be because for the
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: half year I was there, I was impressed they wanted
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: to win. I know Mozay Loog well, I know hein Bloom.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: I obviously know Oli Marmole. We went to the same
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: high school, so I know a lot of the people.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: Daniel Descalsto teammate, John Jay a teammate, ex teammate of mine.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: You know, these guys they want to win they want
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: to do well, and the Cardinal fans expect him to compete.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: So to hear them say, you know, it's a reset,
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: but is it really a reset, Because if it's a reset,
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: you figure out a way to trade arna a right,
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: you figure out what to do with Sonny Gray and
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: some of the other veterans. So that's why being stuck
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: in the middle is a bad spot, because even if
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: you have your best year, are the Cardinals going to
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: win the World Series this year?
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: I don't think. I don't think they can the way
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: they're constructed now at least yeah.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: And you know, it's funny that we use the word
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: reset because after a couple of weeks in spring training,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: obviously I'm not there right now. I will be back
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: in Jupiter next week. Moe has actually pushed back on
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: the term reset, a term he coined by the way,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: and now was referring to this as a transition year.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: So they went from they never used the word rebuild,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: can't use that word. And to be fair, the Cardinals
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: didn't need to rebuild entirely. Their roster is not to
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: the standard where they would coming after the twenty twenty
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: four season. Need to tear it down completely to the studs.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: But any version of what they were doing or what
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: their plans were doing over the winter is some definition
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: of a rebuild. But they went from reset now to transition,
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: and I think part of the reason why is because
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: if you look at this roster, and this is something
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Ken touched on quite extensively in that article, recommend if
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: you're a Cardinals fan that you read it. They haven't.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: They're the almost the exact same team. Now. They lost
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: four pivotal guys Paul Goldschmidt, Lanceln, Kyle Gibson, and Keenan
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, Andrew Kittridge. They were all very valuable for
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: last year's squad, But when you're looking at the position
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: playing side of this sans Goldie, it's almost the exact
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: same roster. I mean, I'm having conversations with Allie Marmel
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: talking about roster construction, and they're the exact same questions
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: I asked last year in June and July about the bench,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: about playing time, about depth. It's just like a continuation
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: of the twenty twenty four season. And I think that's
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: what they have has fans really frustrated. If it was
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: a reset, we're not still harping on the same kinds
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: of issues that we were harping on last year. And
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: there are some some factors we have to consider here,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: right Ah. I mean, the Cardinals couldn't trade Nolan Arnatto.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: They tried, They tried extensively. It's a complicated situation. We've
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: gone over it almost every week here at Cardinal Territory. Wilson,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Contraras and Sunny Gray they didn't want to be traded,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: they didn't want to exercise waving their no trade cuid
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Did that impact John Mozelok's thinking of, Hey, if Contreras
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: and Sunny are staying, you know, maybe I can still
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: build a competitive club this last year. Maybe it's hard
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: to say. Would any other executive gone out and traded
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Ryan Helsley, Eric Fetti, possibly Stephen Mattz I would think so. Uh.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Hellesley himself, when I talked to him a couple of
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: days ago, said probably ninety nine out of one hundred
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: percent of the time I would have been traded. So
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: those are the kinds of things that make me kind
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: of question the direction of this supposed reset. But at
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: the end of the day, the Cardinals are still trying
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: to compete, which is a good thing. I don't believe
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: in the hole. Either you tear it down completely or
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: you're all in to win. I think bait. That's a
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: very dangerous precedent to send. But I just wonder, like
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: we talked all off season about this being a platform
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: here to twenty twenty six, all of a sudden, we're
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: now talking about, like, what can the Cardinals do in
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty five? How are they going to solve all
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: of these questions or answer all these questions about the
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: future if they're competing to win games in twenty twenty five.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: This is what I don't understand.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: Well, my thing is, yeah, I agree with everything you
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: just said, because if they're resetting, rebuilding, whatever they want
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: to call it, you know, transition year, Well, yeah, if
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: you're John Moaelah, don't you want to make the trades
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: for Ryan Helsley and Eric Fatty and then see what
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: you can get back to help Hein Bloom make the
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: team better for next year? Like that would be the
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: thing to me. The thing what I look at is,
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: and I say, Cardinals fans don't expect to rebuild. They
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: don't expect a retool whatever you want to call it,
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: a reset. So they're trying again be in the middle. Yeah,
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: we're trying to compete, but we're also trying to get
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: the young players. Listen, you got to give.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: Jordan Walker five hundred bats and say, listen, what do
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: you got? Right? You mentioned Wilson and Trareras. You signed
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: him to be your catcher.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: He's not a catcher now, he's a DH slash, first baseman,
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: slash whatever. They can put him at right, left field
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: they tried, were trying, but left field last year at
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: one point, So why why'd you sign Wilson and Treras?
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: You know, and he won't wave his no trade. Of course,
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: that's his right, but then why did you sign him? Right,
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: Sonny Gray doesn't want to move. Sonny Gray is a cardinal,
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: he was a cardinal last year. You got a no trade.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: That's his right.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: But again it goes back to, well, if you're not
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: if you're only going to try to compete in twenty
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: twenty four, and why did you sign these guys to
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: these long term deals? Just sign them to one year deals.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: You wouldn't have got them. But then why sign them?
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: I mean, you did it with Lynn, he did it
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: with Gibson, right, So I mean Kittridge is going to
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: be a big loss for them because he was the
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: one guy in their bullpen that could come in and
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: strike guys out, and he was a guy that could
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: go out there every day. So, I mean, I look
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: at this Cardinals roster and I always question this. I
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: have questions for a couple of years now.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: They got a lot of the same guys.
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: It's like it's like New Bar Donovan, all these guys
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: right or like Boo, and they're very similar players. There's
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: you know, Victor Scott obviously can bring a speed thing.
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: Mason Wynn can possibly be a difference maker. But the
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: rest of them, you know, they had Dylan Carlson forever
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: and then they had you know, then they bring New
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: Bar and then they bring in Donovan, and they have
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: all these guys, and you're just like Gorman, You're like, man, like,
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: these guys are all the same player, Like there's not
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: a different guy in different positions.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: You look at the good teams. Look, I mean, obviously
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: you can.
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: Look at the Dodgers and say, all right, well they
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: have a first basement then mashes right, they have this guy.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: But they're all different players and different roles and different things.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: They also have some lesser guys that know their role.
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: You know Will Smith right for example, he's not an
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: MVP like the other you know, Mookie and Showhand those guys,
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: but he knows his role.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: He hits mine.
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: Freddy does a great job, he catches right. And then
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: you have Maximunts he was an on base guy with
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: some power. So they're all different guys in different situations.
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: And sometimes when I look at the Cardinals, they say, okay,
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: they tried that.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: Obviously Goldie got old fast last year, which nobody expect.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: He did have a better second half, but it didn't.
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: They didn't expect that, right, And then Arnatto kind of
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: has has done the same thing. Not that he's done,
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: but it's just it comes down to roster construction. If
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: you don't have different guys in different roles, in different
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: different things for the opponents to look at.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: It's like, Okay, we have these guys that are all
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: the same.
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: They can kind of all play different positions, they all
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: kind of but nobody does anything that you're just like, wow,
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: look how great so and so does something that makes
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: it tough. And then and from the pitching side, none
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: of the young guys that they've tried to develop from
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: a pitching side, have worked out, have they? I mean
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: Libertor was supposed to be a dude, he hasn't really
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: worked out. I mean Hellsley obviously the closer has been good.
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: But look at all their pitchers. They're mostly free agents, right,
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: Matt's Sonny Gray, Lancelin last year, Gibson. Now can Polante
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: and some of the other guys take this next step
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: and possibly be something for him? Yes, but there's not
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: a lot of homegrown guys. Where the Cardinals used to
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: have homegrown guys everywhere that were difference makers. You know,
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: obviously Yati when you know those guys you could look at,
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: but you know, John Jay desclso the guys who were
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: on the staff, they were homegrown guys that came up,
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: did it the right way.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: But they also had roles, right, I mean that's the thing.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: What's the role Like if I if I'm the Cardinals,
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: I go to Jordan Walker say, okay, listen, you're not
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: the greatest right fielder in the world. We're gonna stick
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: you out there though maybe you'll get better, but we
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: need to see what you can do for five hundred
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: bats and not give them what they can sixty last
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: year and like, okay, you got to go down hit
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: the ball in the air. More like, no, how about
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: you just get five hundred bats? You're still what's the
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: twenty two years old? Twenty two go figure it out,
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: Go figure out the big leiglove. We think you're gonna
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: be a star, Go figure it out. So I want
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: to see that. I want to s see them not
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: go halfway and say, Okay, we're only hitting two fifty
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: or two hundred bats in we're gonna say no, like,
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: let him figure it out, because this guy's I mean,
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: you've seen him. He's a monster. He can hit, he's
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: hit his whole life. Let him go figure it out.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: He'll figure it out. And I think that sometimes too.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: The Cardinals are so quick to be like and again,
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: I don't know what goes on in the organization.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: I'm not there, but it's like, oh no, he's not
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: doing this.
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: Oh let's try the next guy. Right, Like, sometimes if
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: you're going to do a reset, you got to let
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: the young kids play. And like you said, by being
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: able to trade art Audo, which obviously they couldn't do
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: because of his no.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: Trade, but trading some of these older guys.
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: To get the younger blood in isn't always a bad
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: thing because it just brings an energy and brings something
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: different to the team.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: And sometimes, I know.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: The Cardinal fans don't want to hear this, but sometimes
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: you got to go backwards and go forwards.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think you hit the nail on the
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: head of what to that entire thing. But you said it,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: especially roster construction and role players.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: And hold on, I'm in my hotel room and the
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: maids walked it home. Excuse me that fine? Excuse me?
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Oh mind, my wife, never mind. I thought it was
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: the maid Okay.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you for that.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: I thought it was I was like, whoa, okay, welcome.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: No different, It's fine. So you talked about the roster construction.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: This has been an issue dating back to twenty twenty
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: three even, and I expect it to be an issue
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: coming into the twenty twenty five season because you're right,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: there are so many redundant players on this the way
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: the opening day roster currently projects, it is already so
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: left handed heavy. You think about guys like Gorman, Neubar Donovan,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: both Victor Scott and Michael Siani are left handed defensive
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: first specialist in center field. You think about the right
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: handed bats, it's really just Contrarasts and Arnato as the
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: established ones. Can Jordan Walker be that right handed bat
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: behind him? Canny von Herrera step up? You have two
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: catchers in Herrera and Pahez who are both young in
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: their careers, so I definitely don't want to cast any
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: doubt there. I believe their ceilings are high. But no
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: clear front runner for your succession plan behind the plate.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: I mean there's succession plans in Siatti has not gone
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: according to plan, and arguably the most critical defensive position
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: out there. You have Contraras at first base and he
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: looks he looks fine, right, I mean do I do?
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: I think he's gold Schmid esque out there? Defensively? Nobody's serviceable?
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: What does that mean for Burlison though, another left handed
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: offensive first player. So already we're having the same conversations
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: about the roster as we did last year and then
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: with role players. I think you're exactly right, and that's
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: part of the reason why the Cardinals went out and
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: tried to build a bench with like veteran guys like
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Brandon Crawford and Matt Carpenter. Last year, because those are
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: guys that had been in this game for a decade,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: understood where they were in their careers, and we're okay
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: taking that backup to Mason win role or the backup
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: twenty sixth man on the roster role. But the Cardinals
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: have yet to really figure out who can do what
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: as a role player. So we know that they're going
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: to give Jordan Walker. Try to give Jordan Walker five
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: hundred of bats, same with Nolan Gorman. They should for
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: as high ceiling as those two have had. Two top prospects.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, Jordan Walker was a top prospect in baseball,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: not just for the Cardinals. And they need to see
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: what they have in them so they can start planning.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: And I think they have definitely the flexibility to do that.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: It's the other players on the roster that I'm not
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: quite sure they're gonna be able to figure out. Are
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: they gonna know what they have in a Burlason? Are
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: they gonna know what they have in a Thomas to
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: jac Are they gonna know what they have in Victor
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Scott the second again, elite speed, high defensive potential. The
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: bat looks really good so far in spring, but you
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: know it's spring. So those are the questions that we
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: went into the end of the twenty twenty four season asking,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: and as we start the twenty twenty five season, are
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: no closer to answering. And this is where fans are
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: getting frustrated. They want the Cardinals to pick a lane.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: And if the Cardinals said, hey, look this this sucks,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: but we're gonna trade Ryan Helsley, I mean he's he's
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: in his tenth year in the organization, He's a brand
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: name at this point. We're gonna trade Helsley after his
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: career year. I think fans would have been disappointed, but
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: they would have understood, or hey, you know what, Eric
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Fetti is a bargain price on the market. Well, he's
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: valuable to us right now. What you know, Opening a
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: spot for Andre Polantaire and Michael McGreevey so we can
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: figure what we are in twenty twenty six is more valuable.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: I think the fans would have understood that. What they
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: do not understand, and candidly I don't some days either
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: is the middle of the direction. And again, I don't
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: think that trying to win games is a bad thing. Obviously,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: I think the Saint Louis Cardinals. You should be trying
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: to win as often as you can. But the Cardinals
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: went out, they were very honest about the direction they
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: were going in October, and here we are about to
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: be in March and all of a sudden that direction
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: is really murky again.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Well, what moves did they make? Like you said, they
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: didn't make any moves?
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: I mean, was Eric Fetty traded to the Cardinals one
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: of the biggest surprises last year of all time because
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: most people thought Fetti would go to a team that
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: was really contending, and the Cardinals weren't really in the race.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: I think the other thing that's frustrating for Cardinals fans
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: is they look at the division and they say, Okay,
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: there's not a great team in our division. If we
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: went out and made some moves, we could turn it
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: around this year or next year. Possibly because the Brewers
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: haven't really done anything right, I mean, I know there's
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: still the Brewers. The Cubs haven't used their might other
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: than getting Kyle Tucker, but they still haven't gone full
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: cubs what they could do with where they're at in
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: their market. The Reds are the Reds, right, So the
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: Pirates are still the Pirates. Yes, they have Skimes and
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: Jones and some other guys. But do the Cardinal fans
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: really think like, we can't compete with the Pittsburgh Pirates
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: right now or the Milwaukee Brewers.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: And the Brewers every year have figured out something.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: They go out and they have a plan, and they're
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: always better than what people think they're gonna be.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: So I think that's also what's frustrating for Cardinal fans is, oh.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: My gosh, we're in the NL Central, which isn't a finding.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: It's not the AL East, right or the NL West
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: where you have these financial juggernauts.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: We're in the NL Central. Much like the AL Central.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: There's not really a team that goes out and just
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: uses their might to help maneuver everybody and out pay
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: you for these teams.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: So I think that's also the frustration. But like you said,
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: if they would just.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: Come out and say, you know what, we're gonna need
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: one year guys, and we're gonna trade away some players,
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: but in two years from now we're gonna be a
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: better organization because of it, I think Cardinal fans are
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: smart enough to say, you know what, You're right, we
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: can live with a bad year as long as you
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: tell us. I think that's what most baseball fans have
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: become accustomed to. Other than obviously Yankees, Dodgers, even the
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: Red Sox fans have been through it, right, And you
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: never thought we'd see a day where the Red Sox
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: were like, oh man, we can't spend. So I think
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: the Cardinal fans would be okay with it because they're
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: smart enough. But just do that, Just say that, Just
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: come out and say, you know what, guys, Yeah, we're
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: gonna trade healthy. We're gonnarade fetti, We're gonna trade mats
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: if we can't. Sunny Gray obviously would be a great
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: trade piece if he would go somewhere, like, you know, but.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Just say it.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: I just I just want an organization to be honest,
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: and I think, yes, sometimes they can't be honest because
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: of whatever they is going on behind the scenes. But
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: I think Cardinal fans would understand. I mean, I'm looking
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: at their roster right now, and I'm like, who's gonna pitch? Okay, yes,
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: Gray fetti matts or starters. Polonte's probably a starter. Livery,
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: what are they doing with Livertor? Is he gonna be
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: a starter? Is he gonna be a reliever, right, It's like, okay,
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: then what then who's after them?
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Who's coming after them?
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: I want to see the guys who are coming after
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: those guys because Gray is a veteran, Fetti's been around
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: for a while, Matts has been around for a while.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: Matts can't stay healthy. Seems like anytime, right, so you
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: know you have to have at least one other starter.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: How all Plante reacted to the rotation, It's just an interesting
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: time because I think they would have been better off
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: just selling everybody, but without telling the Cardinals Fianth plus
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: mosaics last year. He doesn't want to go out on
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: you know nine, he lost team, right, He wants to
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: try to go out on a high note. But I
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: think the high note would actually be setting it up
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: for the future in heim Bloom and whoever else comes
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: in there, for the future, not this year, but twenty six,
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: twenty seven, when hey, you know what, we're going to
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: get back to winning the Cardinal Way.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: And I think that was the plan when they first
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: an ount. I mean, it was a terrible end of
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: season press conference, but at least we had an understanding
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: of where the organization was going. And I think, you know,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: in that in September early October. That's what they wanted
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: to do, That's what they intended to do, and I
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: think it's fair again the question if Contraras and Sunny
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Gray stain impacted that. I think you're right about John
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Moselac who and this is brought up in Ken's column
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: as well, maybe it is facing some some internal pressure
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: to not go out like that. I mean, can you
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: blame him? Look, I know it's popular to dunk on
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: MO right now, and I understand, and he's probably a
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: little I think fans think that he's overstayed his welcome.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: But let's not that he hasn't done what he's done
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: for this organization. It has not been impactful that he's not,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: you know, made the Cardinals where they are right now.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: It's easy. It's it's what have you done for me
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: right now? Business? But John Moselock's tenure will be one
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: of the best that we see in Major League Baseball,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: and I don't blame him for not really wanting to
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: go out like this, especially with what you said about
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: the division. The NL Central is again wide open. There
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: is no clear cut favorite. It's a five hundred division again,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: unless the Brewers do one of their Brewers things and
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: figure it out. We can't rule it out, but you know,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: they're a different team without Devin Williams and Willie Damas.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: So again it was I think the messaging has been
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: muddled a little bit, and I think fans are frustrated.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: I think they were on board with the reset, but
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: now that it's not a reset and it's a transition
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: and it's more or less looking like running back the
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: exact same roster. And look, the Cardinals won eighty three
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: games last year. They were not a good offensive team.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: They had a great bullpen. I still think if the
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Cardinals figured out a way to sneak into the playoffs,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: we would have never even had this conversation. I think
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: we would have been actually, we would have been exactly
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: what we are right now. AJ THAT'EATNT and repeat.
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: So no matter what, we're still having the same conversation.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: But I do understand fans frustrations, skeptics throughout the industry,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: even players being confused on the direction of the Cardinals
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: because it doesn't really they have and they've stated what
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: they want their direction to be, but their actions haven't
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: really matched up there. But We'll get into the twenty
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: twenty five cardinals in a sec First, though, we got
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• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Was that you doing the intro to that I have, Well,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: I actually have all my hair, so you know, well,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: I do have one more Cardinal season. I might need
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: that information because it's been a stressful, stressful three weeks. Aja, Hey,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: you know what. The gang at foul Territory was at
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Cardinals camp yesterday, but neither you or I were there
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: because apparently didn't like each other have to hang out.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: I lost you for a second there. I don't know
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: you went. You went out to a circle.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Oh perfect, No, I was bringing up the fact that
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: our our friend Eric Kratz was at Cardinals camp yesterday,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: the foul Territory gag in Jupiter. You and I are
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: like ships in the night, just passing by, but never
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: close enough to say, hey.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: One day, I think I do have a I do
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: have a Fox game coming up, so I think the
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: Cardinals game, so I think it maybe maybe you probably
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: won't be on that one, so it'll be fine. Everyone
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: Ritory network. I never meet in person it's like, I
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: just see you guys on TV.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, basically, it's if it's not TV or Twitter, it's Instagram.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: It's never in person. I think the Cardinals do have
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: one Fox game, though I looked at their schedule a
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: sign of the times that the same. Those Cardinals have
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: one Fox game up until the All Star break. But
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: weirdly enough, they have the second Sunday Night Baseball Cardinals
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Red Sox, so probably the only time will see that.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: That's because the Cardinals fans watch, right, they do watch
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: when they're on TV, they watch, they watch my game.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: So that's why I mean, they still draw. They still
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: rate very well on television.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: But I tell teams all the time people complain about
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: like when I go in to do a Fox Saturday
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: Night game, they're like, Kastria, have you guys tonight? Then
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: we have Sunday Night Baseball. I go, you know who
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: doesn't get on Sunday Night Baseball on Fox Saturday Night?
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: Bad teams. So if you're good, guess what you're gonna
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: have to do it. And if you want to not beyond,
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: then be bad, because you know who's not gonna be
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: on TV this year? The White Sox, the Rockies. They're
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: not gonna be on Fox.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Or about ESPN. I can't even I have no idea.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: Unless they were playing the Dodgers, I don't know when
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm thinking the last time I did a
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: game in Colorado, they were playing the Dodgers, and it
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: was like a you know, which is a beautiful place
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: to go to Colorado. But they're not really I hate
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: to say this about any but they're not relevant right now.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Well, hopefully that does not happen to the Saint Louis Binals.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: And what's what's the ceiling? I mean, we talked about
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: this a little bit already, but when you're looking at
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: this roster, like who are the players that you are
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: looking to take big jumps for that you believe can
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: take some big jumps out there?
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: Well, I think we're talking about one Jordan Walker. I
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: think he can take a big jump.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: And I think.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: I think whether it's Gorman new Bar Donovan, one of
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: those guys also needs to take a jump. And and
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: you got to figure out your catcher, right, is it
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: Herreras a Pies or is it somebody else you have
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: Contreras he can still catch. They don't seem to want
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: him to catch. But I didn't think he was that bad.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: I know I'm not watching every single game, but he
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: did okay with the Cubs. But again, you sign him
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: with this big deal to be a catcher, not to
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: be a first baseman, not to be a d h so.
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: But but honestly, I think I think Walker offensively, and
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: then one of the other guys, whether it's Gorman, you know,
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: new Bar whoever, whoever, that next person in line is Donovan,
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: whoever that is, has to take that jump. And then
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: for me on the pitching staff, I think Polonte I
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: saw that. Like I said, I saw the Cardinals two
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: days ago, and in the Yankees and I was talking
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: to Jay and Descalsto and Holly, and they they love
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: what he can do. They love his armslot, they love
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: his action on his pitches. And he's the one guy
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: that everybody mentioned like, this guy's got a chance to
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: be really good for us. So I think he needs
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: to take a step. And then somebody in the bullpen
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: is going to be Was it Fernandez? They got Fernandez, right,
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: the guy who comes out of the bullpen throwing fire, right.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: I mean, I know Helsy's back there, but will he
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: be the guy if they do trade Helsey take over
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: the ninth inning. I think he can take a jump too,
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: because guess what, he went through it for a year
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: and now now we can do it again. So I
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: think he's another guy. So I think there's pieces there.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: But I think that the pieces, like we kind of
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: talked about early, they don't all fit together like is
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: into one big unit. It's more of okay, they fit,
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: but how do they fit together? And I think all
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: he's gonna have a challenge like he's had the last
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: couple of years of figuring out playing time, where positioned,
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: where guys are gonna play. And I mean I think, listen,
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: Mason win had a great year. Is it going to
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: be Victor Scott in center field every day? Those are
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: the questions they have to figure out for the future,
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: not for this year, because I think even if like
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: they're stealing last year was what eighty three wins, that's
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: the one that's about as good as they could.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: Have done this year.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: There the way that they're look at their margin of
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: one run win games. I mean, they had no business
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: winning as many games, but they were able to because
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: their both pen But.
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: Isn't that they're stealing this year. Again, it's about the
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: same number, isn't it, Because you said they pretty much
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: have the same team minus gold Schmidt, Right, So I mean,
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: is that their best they could do? If eighty three
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: enough to get them into the postseason?
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: I don't think it is. In the National League. I mean,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: because you go you.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: Can start going Dodgers, Padres, Diamondbacks, someone from the Central,
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: someone from the East. There's five of them right there,
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: right If you look at Nation League East, you have
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: the Phillies, Mets, Braves. I would think you'd say all
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: three that those teams are better than anybody in the Central.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: And you could say Padre's Dodgers, Diamondbacks are better than
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: anyone in the Central.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: So you got one spot. You basically have to almost
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: win the Central to get in.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: And are the Cardinals the best team, I'd say you
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: put them at least third, if not fourth, right now,
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: right behind the Brewers, behind the Cubs, and behind the Reds.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Right. So, I mean, it's a tough road to hope
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: for these guys. I mean, I listen, I.
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: Love the Cardinals and I love the organization, I love
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: the fans, and I want them to do well. But
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: sometimes you just got to be truthful and say, let's
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: look at twenty six or any right.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: And the weird part about this is that an eighty
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: five win team can can probably win the Central just
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: base how the division is projecting. And I think the
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Cardinals are capable of winning right around eighty three eighty
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: five games, eighty five games and everything goes right. But
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: as you know, a Jane, that never happens in a
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: baseball season, and that's no, come on, it doesn't even
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: happen in a day. But let's really think about this.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: The Cardinals are confident in their ability to compete this year.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: If Jordan Walker figures out how to hit consistently, if
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Nolan Gorman can figure out the strikeout rate and to
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: hit the ball more consistently, If Lars Newpark can stay
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: healthy and maybe play center field, but that's a whole
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: other conversation. If Mason win repeats his rookie year, if
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: they can figure out the cashing situation, if Nolan Arnauto
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: bounces back, if Wilson Contreras can be a first baseman.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: That's seven, IF's already when even gott into the pitchers.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: So if you're the Cardinals, you're counting on all of
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: this to go right to be competitive. I mean, that's
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: not that's not a realistic strategy. Now, our some of
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: these players going to take some steps forward? I certainly hope.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: So this is a pro Jordan Walker show. So there
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: will be no slander of Jordan Walker on the Office
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: program because.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: You'll beat you up. He's so big, I mean, drag
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: me around.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: He could do that. He's that's like a six foot
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: eight insane. I don't It's hard to envision the Cardinals
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: reaching their ceiling this year because so much is going
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: to have to go right. And if that's just not
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: that's not how baseball works. Now, do I think some
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: of these players are going to take some steps forward?
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: I would love to see a healthy Lars new Bar.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: I think a healthy Lars new Bar is a difference
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: maker on almost any single of the thirty ball clubs
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: out there right now. Jordan Walker, sure, the defense probably
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: isn't the best in right field, but I mean you
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: saw some of his abats in Tampa. The big thing
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: for him is laying off the slider, which I thought
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: he did a good job against Bill Waldron four. I
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: mean he did eventually punch out but at least it
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: wasn't on the slider low and away and getting the
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: ball near more consistently, which the Abats have much better.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Can Nolan Gorman cut down that track out right? Again?
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: We didn't see that much of all last year, but
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: he's going to get a chance to try it one
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: more time. So I think if you're the sameless Cardinals,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: you're evaluating the success or you should be evaluating the
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: success of the twenty twenty five season on individual performances.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: But this goes back to the points we've made all episode.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: They are still competing and still trying to win ball games,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: and it's just kind of writing down the middle, which,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: as you said, as Ken said, which I agree with,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: is the worst place to be if you're a baseball
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: team listener.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: I agree with everything you just said.
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: The success of the Cardinals unless all those ifs go right,
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: and there's way more ifs in the seven you just name,
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: because like you said, you can be the pitching staff
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: is based on individuals taking the next step. That's what
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: you have to be excited about if you're a Cardinals fan.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: The young guys you have that have the potential to
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: be stars. The Jordan Walkers, the Gorman's, the Donovan's, the
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: new Bars. Will they slowly start taking step And if
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: you listened to Oli marmal on foul Territory yesterday, he's like,
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: we're way better in analytics, We're way better at certain
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: things than we were a few years ago, which is
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: also a step for the organization. But can they translate
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: it to the players understanding taking those steps becoming the
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: players they think they can if they can listen, I'm
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: not saying they can be good good in twenty five,
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: but twenty six, twenty seven, because the Cardinals do have
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: financial might when they want to use it. And the
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: twenty five free aging class after this year is a
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: star studded one. That there's a lot of really good
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: players that are out there, and the Cardinals have shown
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: a propensity in the past if they want somebody like
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: when they went and got Goldsman, when they win got Arnatto, right,
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: I mean Goldsmith, they went got and signed them to
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: an extension. They can do these things the Sunny Grays, right,
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: they can go out and get guys when they want them.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: Wistening to trais, they just have to find that the
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: right whatever it is deal that they want to go
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: get But when the Cardinals want somebody, they go get
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: them and they're not afraid because they can. They have
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: Ballpark Village, they have basically the whole Midwest other than
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: Illinois behind them, right, So, I mean even South Illinois
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: is all Cardinals fans. So I think I think the
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: Cardinals have to look kind of ahead down the road,
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: which no Fano wants to hear because every fan wants
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: to win. But yeah, you're right, It's going to be
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: measured this year by how the players take those small
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: steps to become something for the future, not for this year,
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: but down the road.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: And that's again the whole point of this, not a rebuild,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: not a reset, but just a casual transition for these Yeah.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: Whatever you want to call it, Katie, whatever you guys
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: want to call it in.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Saint Louis, I'm sure by opening day it'll be something
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: completely different. So that's just how it is around here.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: A j. This is great. I know fans really like
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: to hear from you. You offered just such a real
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: perspective about the game, and I'm excited to be teammates
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: with you next time we do this, though, we should
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: wear our Fredbird hats. I think we kind of missed up,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: missed opportunity here for that.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: Well I don't I'm on the road, so I don't
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: have mine with me, but uh, I get every chance.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: I don't carry it with me, no, sorry, but every
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: chance I get on Foul Territory to throw all my
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: friend bird at them all for it.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: It's a great one, and they're giving them away again
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: one of the home weekend games in April, so you
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: know there's things are in that respect or that perspective
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: looking up in Saint Louis. As long as they keep
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: bredbird hats, I think we can all stick around.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, this great.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: I appreciate the time, and I'm looking forward to seeing
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: you at some point. Cardinal Territory fans, we're back again
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: with Trevor Rosenthal and Alexa Dat, who, if you may remember,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: was supposed to be on this episode, but we had
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: some scheduling conflicts. So shout out AJ for being a
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: team player. Yeah, some fun stuff. I'm looking forward to
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: getting back to Jupiter, getting back with Trevor, but until then,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: enjoy these spring training games. Have a very safe Marti
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Gras make good decisions for AJ Prisinski I'm Katie Wu.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: We'll talk next week.