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Bryan Kohberger And The Initial Forensic Tests At His Apartment In Washington · Beyond The Horizon

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  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. Over
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  Speaker 1: the past few days, we've learned a little bit more
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  Speaker 1: about the raid on Brian Kohlberger's apartment, some of the
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  Speaker 1: items found within that apartment, and the fact that some
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  Speaker 1: of those items tested positive for blood. However, I will
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  Speaker 1: caution you, we don't know if that blood matches one
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  Speaker 1: of the victims, if that blood matches Brian Kohlberger, or
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  Speaker 1: some unknown person that might have been at Brian Kohlberger's
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  Speaker 1: house and bled all over his sheets. We just don't
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  Speaker 1: have those details yet. All that we do know, at
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  Speaker 1: least according to these reports, some of the items taken
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  Speaker 1: that were tested for blood came back positive. So today,
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  Speaker 1: we have an article from the Idaho Statesman, and the
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  Speaker 1: author of this article is Kevin Fixler. Headline, Blood found
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  Speaker 1: on item seized at Moscow homicide suspect's apartment, records show.
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  Speaker 1: Initial analysis showed blood on two items that police seized
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  Speaker 1: during their search of Moscow homicide suspect Brian Koberger's Washington
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  Speaker 1: State University housing documents the university released Thursday revealed. So
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  Speaker 1: they released 166 new pages of court filings that discuss
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  Speaker 1: what went on in this apartment. And we're going to
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  Speaker 1: go through some of that because it's relevant, obviously, talking
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  Speaker 1: about that filing from Washington. But we're not going to
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  Speaker 1: go through all 166 pages. Testing of 50 items found
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  Speaker 1: in Kohlberger's student apartment in Pullman came back with at
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  Speaker 1: least trace amounts of blood on brown or reddish-stained bedding
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  Speaker 1: according to an inventory list obtained by the Idaho statesman
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  Speaker 1: through a public records request. And the Idaho statesman has
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  Speaker 1: done great work from the very beginning as far as
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  Speaker 1: the murders in Moscow, and then the investigation that followed.
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  Speaker 1: They have had some very good reports, and they've been
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  Speaker 1: able to get some information that other outlets haven't thought
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  Speaker 1: about getting or just haven't been able to come up with.
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  Speaker 1: A mattress cover and an uncased pillow each were positive
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  Speaker 1: for blood in the presumptive chemical tests. A dark red
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  Speaker 1: spot on the kitchen counter near the sink could not
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  Speaker 1: be tested but was collected, the record showed. So there's
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  Speaker 1: a lot there to unpack, right? And what they mean
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  Speaker 1: by preliminary testing is testing on the scene. So it's
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  Speaker 1: not one of those comprehensive tests that goes deep into finding,
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  Speaker 1: you know, whose blood it is. It's just a test
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  Speaker 1: to confirm if it's blood or not. And that's the
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  Speaker 1: test that was performed during the execution of this search warrant.
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  Speaker 1: And it came back positive for trace amounts of blood,
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  Speaker 1: at least on a few of the items.
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  Speaker 2: But again, just a caution.
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  Speaker 1: I don't want people getting too overly excited about that
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  Speaker 1: because we don't know who that blood traces back to.
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  Speaker 1: That could easily be Brian Kohlberger's own blood, right? We
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  Speaker 1: just don't know yet. Kohlberger, 28, a former WSU graduate student,
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  Speaker 1: is charged with four counts of first-degree murder and one
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  Speaker 1: count of felony burglary in the stabbing deaths of four
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  Speaker 1: University of Idaho students in November. The victims were Senior
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  Speaker 1: Madison Mogan and Kaylee Gonsalves, Junior and freshman Ethan Chapin.
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  Speaker 1: The newly released WSU records do not indicate whose blood
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  Speaker 1: may have been present on the bedding. Among a list
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  Speaker 1: of other items police sought, the search warrant directed them
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  Speaker 1: to seize evidence of blood or bodily fluid or human
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  Speaker 1: tissue or skin cells or any items that contain them
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  Speaker 1: as part of their investigation into the Moscow homicides. So
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  Speaker 1: that's pretty broad, right? Anything that the investigators who are
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  Speaker 1: performing the search warrant might think is necessary as far
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  Speaker 1: as the parameters of the warrant. All of that stuff
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  Speaker 1: was in play to be collected. And they collected everything
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  Speaker 1: that they possibly could according to that warrant. And we
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  Speaker 1: also know that the investigators walked into a very spartan environment.
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  Speaker 1: There was nothing in that apartment. It was basically disinfected.
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  Speaker 1: Everything that Brian Kohlberger owned or was going to take
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  Speaker 1: with him, he took with him to Pennsylvania. Who knows
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  Speaker 1: about the other stuff? Remember, he had a seven-week gap
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  Speaker 1: before he was caught and arrested for these murders. So
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  Speaker 1: he had plenty of time to do other stuff in between.
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  Speaker 1: And a lot of that stuff could have been done
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  Speaker 1: before they even had the surveillance on him. The other
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  Speaker 1: 48 tested items, including stains on towels, swabs on bathroom sinks,
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  Speaker 1: and the shower drain, and a microwave, and pizza cutter
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  Speaker 1: in Kohlberger's kitchen, each came back without the presence of blood.
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  Speaker 1: Not all tested items were seized by police. So with
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  Speaker 1: the drain coming back negative for blood, either he disinfected
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  Speaker 1: it somehow, and there was no blood traces to be
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  Speaker 1: found when they used the luminol, or he didn't take
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  Speaker 1: a shower in there with any blood on him. Those
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  Speaker 1: are the only two options, right? Police took the two
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  Speaker 1: pieces of bedding, plus the red spot that flaked off
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  Speaker 1: the kitchen counter, as part of more than a dozen
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  Speaker 1: items seized in the search, as the statesman previously reported.
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  Speaker 2: Campus police executed.
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  Speaker 1: The search warrant on Kohlberger's Washington State University housing and
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  Speaker 1: office on December 30th, the same day he was arrested
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  Speaker 1: in eastern Pennsylvania. Upon discovery of a storage closet assigned
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  Speaker 1: to Kohlberger's apartment, the documents showed police sought from a
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  Speaker 1: judge and received an amended search warrant for the closet,
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  Speaker 1: which was located in the same building as the student
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  Speaker 1: housing complex's laundry area. And sometimes, When the police are
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  Speaker 1: executing a search warrant, when they're on the scene, something
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  Speaker 1: will come up and they'll have to call a judge
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  Speaker 1: and get that warrant amended right on the spot. And
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  Speaker 1: the judge can do that simply with a voice command.
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  Speaker 1: Then he has his clerk or her clerk go back
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  Speaker 1: and drop the paperwork and get everything buttoned up.
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  Speaker 2: But that's what they do all the time.
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  Speaker 1: So if the police are raiding a house or something
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  Speaker 1: like that and they run into something unexpected, they'll certainly
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  Speaker 1: call the judge and draw a warrant right there on
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  Speaker 1: the scene. Police suspected Koberger used the storage closet between
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  Speaker 1: the November 13 homicides and his trip to Pennsylvania in
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  Speaker 1: mid-December to visit his parents during Washington State University's winter break,
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  Speaker 1: they wrote. But we know now with hindsight that he
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  Speaker 1: was never coming back to Washington State University no matter what.
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  Speaker 1: He lost his TA position. He was in no financial
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  Speaker 1: situation to pay for that himself out of pocket. So
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  Speaker 1: we know that he wasn't coming back to Washington State University.
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  Speaker 1: and that's why everything was cleaned out. Between the murders
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  Speaker 1: and the fact that he knew he wasn't coming back,
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  Speaker 1: my guess is he dumped a bunch of that stuff.
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  Speaker 1: Whether it was in the dumpster or he took it
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  Speaker 1: out to some burn.
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  Speaker 2: Pit, whatever it was, he got rid of it.
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  Speaker 1: Kohlberger's storage closet had cobwebs leading up to its door,
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  Speaker 1: which was found ajar and with dust on the floor,
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  Speaker 1: the document showed. It did not appear the closet had
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  Speaker 1: been used recently. wrote Dawn Daniels, Washington State University's assistant
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  Speaker 1: police chief, in post-search warrant narrative included in the records.
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  Speaker 1: Like Koberger's campus office, nothing was seized or collected from
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  Speaker 1: his storage closet, she wrote. And that's because he had
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  Speaker 1: all this time. He had roughly seven weeks from the
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  Speaker 1: time the murders were committed to the time he was caught.
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  Speaker 1: So that gives him, you know, almost two months to
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  Speaker 1: get rid of stuff, to hide stuff, to toss evidence.
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  Speaker 1: And it looks like he did just that if he
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  Speaker 1: is the man the government tells us he is.
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  Speaker 2: Every day.
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  Speaker 1: Kohlberger banned from the Washington State University campus. The Washington
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  Speaker 1: State University records also include a December 30th letter to
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  Speaker 1: Kohlberger threatening him with criminal trespassing if he again set
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  Speaker 1: foot on the Washington State University campus, signed by Washington
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  Speaker 1: State University Police Chief Gary Jenkins. Kohlberger said, was served
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  Speaker 1: with a document the next day while he was held
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  Speaker 1: in jail in Monroe County, Pennsylvania, and it includes his signature.
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  Speaker 1: So again, Kohlberger has way bigger problems right now than
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  Speaker 1: if he's welcomed on the Washington State University campus. While
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  Speaker 1: still enrolled in Washington State University's criminal justice and criminology
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  Speaker 1: PhD program, Kohlberger, previously interviewed with Jenkins, then chief of
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  Speaker 1: the Pullman Police Department, for a doctoral-level graduate research assistantship
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  Speaker 1: for public safety. Prior public records obtained by the statesman showed.
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  Speaker 1: In an email correspondence from April 2022, Kohlberger thanked Jenkins
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  Speaker 1: for his interview for the position. And this isn't something
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  Speaker 1: that is uncommon, especially when you're talking about a PhD candidate.
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  Speaker 1: You have to think the local law enforcement department Agencies
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  Speaker 1: are going to use this school as a resource to
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  Speaker 1: get new recruits and people to come and work for them, right?
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  Speaker 1: That's what they're going to school for. So Jenkins here
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  Speaker 1: was interviewing Brian Kohlberger to possibly come on board and
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  Speaker 1: help out. And hindsight's 20-20, of course. Nobody knew that
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  Speaker 1: Brian Kohlberger was going to flip his shit and end
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  Speaker 1: up murdering people. In an email correspondence from April 2022,
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  Speaker 1: Kohlberger thanked Jenkins for his interview for the position.
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  Speaker 2: Brian.
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  Speaker 1: Great to meet and talk with you as well, Jenkins
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  Speaker 1: responded the same day. It remains unclear if Kohlberger, one
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  Speaker 1: of four finalists from his Ph.D. program, according to records,
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  Speaker 1: received the role. Pullman police and a Washington State University
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  Speaker 1: spokesperson have declined to answer questions or provide documents related
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  Speaker 1: to whether Kohlberger got the research position. And of course,
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  Speaker 1: they can get away with that because of the gag order.
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  Speaker 1: Let's remember, we're talking about the government's They don't want
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  Speaker 1: to be transparent in the best of times, never mind
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  Speaker 1: when a judge drops a gag order over a case. Also,
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  Speaker 1: attorneys for Kohlberger on Wednesday formally asked the court for
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  Speaker 1: all generic information that investigators used to identify and justify
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  Speaker 1: the arrest of their client on suspicion of the University
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  Speaker 1: of Idaho student homicides in Moscow last year. And we're
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  Speaker 1: going to go into that a little bit deeper. I
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  Speaker 1: have an episode that's already been done, and we're going
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  Speaker 1: to talk more about some of that stuff that was
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  Speaker 1: found and what they asked for as far as discovery
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  Speaker 1: and Brian Koberger's team. That's an episode that will be
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  Speaker 1: coming up later on today. The discovery request filed by
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  Speaker 1: Koberger's public defender, Ann Taylor, in the second judicial court
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  Speaker 1: in Latah County, seeks a series of DNA-related evidence, information
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  Speaker 1: about all involved laboratories, profile databases, lab technicians, and chain
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  Speaker 1: of custody details is included in the request. And how
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  Speaker 1: many times have I talked about chain of custody and
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  Speaker 1: how important it is? And you're going to see that
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  Speaker 1: play out right here. If the chain of custody was
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  Speaker 1: broken at any point, it's not going to be admissible evidence.
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  Speaker 1: Of course, the judge can, you know, wiggle around and
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  Speaker 1: do what she wants, but for the most part, If
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  Speaker 1: you have something as far as evidence and the chain
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  Speaker 1: of custody has been broken, a lot of times judges
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  Speaker 1: are not going to allow that evidence to be admitted.
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  Speaker 1: So I'm very interested to see the chain of custody here,
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  Speaker 1: considering they sent it out to multiple labs. But either way,
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  Speaker 1: we're going to be here every step of the way,
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  Speaker 1: following along with the Brian Kohlberger investigation and the Brian
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  Speaker 1: Kohlberger trial. All of the information that goes with the
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  Speaker 1: episode can be found in the description box.