Latest / Clinically Chaotic / Episode 2: Lineage of cockroach people

Transcript

Episode 2: Lineage of cockroach people · Clinically Chaotic

0:08
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to episode two of Clinically Chaotic Podcast by Erica and Tara.
0:16
SPEAKER_02: It's good to be here.
0:18
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for coordinating all of this today.
0:21
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
0:23
SPEAKER_02: I am super curious.
0:24
SPEAKER_02: I wanted to pose a couple of questions to you today because I feel like these things don't get talked about enough.
0:30
SPEAKER_02: But how do you specifically feel about tattoos as a therapist?
0:36
SPEAKER_02: Ooh.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: Tattoos as a therapist.
0:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, it might be my Gemini open mind.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: I don't have a lot of rigid thinking in general.
0:49
SPEAKER_01: I think that's just not who I am.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: So my personal perspective is I guess as long as it's not anything that would be completely offensive or harmful to someone, then I don't know, it's your body.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: People do have the right to choose their therapists.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, they can choose to meet with someone and then choose someone else.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: And so if having tattoos is something that would maybe want to prevent someone from working from you, then by all means, plenty of therapists out there without tattoos.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: But I don't see the harm in it, I guess.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure it will happen regardless.
1:28
SPEAKER_02: Either they won't like you for one thing or another because therapists are not all one flavor.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: But specifically, oh, tattoos are interesting because I think in the fields, and I imagine you might get this occasionally, but maybe less so working with kids.
1:43
SPEAKER_02: There is a stigma around age, which is wild to me because I went to school with a bunch of people who were older than I was, but we were all learning at the exact same time.
1:56
SPEAKER_02: So the perception I think to other people was like, hey, they must have been in this field forever and therefore they are more competent.
2:05
SPEAKER_02: And that could not be further from the truth.
2:08
SPEAKER_02: Some younger therapists have been in the field much longer than older therapists.
2:11
SPEAKER_02: Some older therapists, of course, are going to be more competent because they've been there longer, but you really can't tell by looking at someone.
2:18
SPEAKER_01: Right.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
2:20
SPEAKER_01: And I think it also there's something to be said about how the older generations didn't get, you know, it wasn't a thing for everybody to be getting tattoos and that be a way of how you express yourself through art that you're putting on your body.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: Whereas now it's a little bit more normalized to be getting tattoos.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't think either one of my parents or grandparents have tattoos, but you know, my sisters and friends all have tattoos.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: And so in general, I think there's more people in the world that are getting tattoos that limits if people want a therapist without tattoos, I guess.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: Same thing, I guess, goes with like piercings, hair color.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: In general, how you're expressing yourself.
3:08
SPEAKER_02: Oh man, I feel like most of my tattoos, because we live in a cold place, are hidden a majority of the year.
3:15
SPEAKER_02: And people are genuinely shocked to know that they I have several on an arm whenever there's actually sunlight here.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that no, that's fair.
3:26
SPEAKER_01: And I think in terms of like what we what you were saying about the age stigma, is like, yeah, I work with a lot of families and work to support and help navigate, you know, parenting for people who have kids.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: However, like I don't have my own children.
3:45
SPEAKER_01: So I think me being somewhat of a younger clinician in the field who also doesn't have children of her own, that can kind of make an interesting dynamic when, you know, parents, caregivers are, you know, taking coaching or advice or input from somebody who might be 20 to 30 years younger than them and actually don't have kids of their own.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: So it's like a weird, a weird thing that comes up.
4:11
SPEAKER_02: I would argue that actually gives you more capacity to learn all of these things because you're sleeping consistently.
4:18
SPEAKER_02: That and you actually get to read all these books because you have time.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's just like perspective.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: A line I use a lot with my families is like telling parents kind of like, you could have read every single parenting book to prepare and you know, plan out what it was gonna be like, how to raise your kids, and then when the time comes, like there's no book out there that is gonna outline exactly how to raise your specific child with, you know, the specific caregivers in the home and the life dynamics that you have.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: And so being open to a different perspective, even if it's a perspective from someone that has lived maybe half the life that you know you've lived, there's something about that.
5:04
SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
5:04
SPEAKER_02: I think from my perspective, if I was the client and I walked into a space and my therapist had tattoos, I would feel at ease personally.
5:12
SPEAKER_02: And if they didn't, I would immediately maybe feel a little defensive.
5:16
SPEAKER_02: But I think that is a sign of our age.
5:19
SPEAKER_02: I've seen it go both ways.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if clients know this, but I can see you look me up and down when I walk into a room.
5:26
SPEAKER_02: Right.
5:26
SPEAKER_02: I'm very aware of everything that you're clocking in that moment.
5:30
SPEAKER_02: Which is fine.
5:30
SPEAKER_02: They get to make whatever judgment they want to make.
5:33
SPEAKER_02: But it is really interesting, given that we're like entering a space where the whole goal is to like get to know each other and there is still a bias no matter what.
5:43
SPEAKER_02: Is there anything else that you sometimes keep hidden or stray away from because of that bias that exists when people just glance at you or a profile picture?
5:53
SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: Gosh, I mean, I think about sometimes, and like again, this can I think differ depending on the different populations you work with, different work settings.
6:05
SPEAKER_01: I think when I was working in a group practice, just the way I dressed was a little bit different, or like how I would choose my clothes for the day appeared a little bit different.
6:16
SPEAKER_01: I was also working with a more broad population.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: I was working with adults and children, adolescents.
6:22
SPEAKER_01: Whereas now I specifically work with children.
6:25
SPEAKER_01: And in our training at my current job, we're actually trained to kind of leave the more business casual clothes at home and appear a little bit more like you are ready to go work in the field.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: Also, my job can be a little more physically, you know, you need to be able to move, you need to be able to get on the ground or just be ready for whatever situation comes, which might be a little less predictable than the group practice and private practice setting.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: And so I think when I first started working in this field and first started doing therapy, I was really mindful about looking my nicest.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: Now I think I've really adjusted that to, you know, just kind of leaning more into a casual look.
7:11
SPEAKER_01: And I think that also helps me connect with families, children.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: If I'm showing up in like a blazer and dress pants, you know, to work with a seven-year-old.
7:21
SPEAKER_01: And as if they're in and you play Legos during our sessions or something, it just doesn't really fit like the setting, the situation for what I'm doing.
7:29
SPEAKER_02: That makes sense.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: I feel like sometimes I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum and that being in like a more private practice office setting, that I do feel the need to dress up a little bit more.
7:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:41
SPEAKER_02: And not all my colleagues do.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: I've seen people wear everything across the lines of like leggings and like a cozy oversized sweatshirt.
7:50
SPEAKER_02: And I will say that therapist was older when I saw that and I was like, I wonder if that the older we get, maybe that expands what we can and can't wear and still be taken seriously in this field.
7:59
SPEAKER_02: I tend to be more dressy, but I think I have dropped some expectations that almost give a more human concept.
8:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:07
SPEAKER_02: Like sometimes I'm gonna show up and my hair is gonna be backwards in a claw clip and it's gonna be wet because I just took a shower.
8:15
SPEAKER_02: And you kind of make it work as you can, but the expectation to be perfectly dressed is interesting.
8:22
SPEAKER_02: I always get like, it's your therapist cardigan.
8:26
SPEAKER_02: And I don't think we all dress like that all the time.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: No, definitely not.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's again, I feel like like an added layer of pressure of like, okay, the like my clients, these people in the community have this expectation that I'm here to fix it and solve all the problems and do all the things.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: And so, in order for me to kind of uphold that image, I have to look the part.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: You know, I have to look like I am put together and ready to solve all the problems and yank out my magic wand to do so when sometimes it just feels like I'm trying to fit this image when in reality it's chaotic.
9:07
SPEAKER_02: I think you're walking like a therapist tightrope, right?
9:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:10
SPEAKER_02: I want to be professional and I want people to respect me and all the time and effort that I put into this job.
9:16
SPEAKER_02: And I want to be relatable and likable and authentic.
9:20
SPEAKER_02: And those are two opposite ends of the spectrum and could not be more opposite for me personally.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: And I feel like you just try and do your best to navigate it every day with the reality that people will be mad at you or not enjoy or diminish your accomplishments immediately because of what you're wearing.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: Everyone at the end of the day is gonna form their own opinion.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: You know, you could show up in your nicest business casual outfit, and one client might absolutely respect that and, you know, feel comfortable with that visual and be able to connect better.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: Whereas, you know, another client might feel the exact opposite, might feel a little intimidated that, you know, we're dressed in a certain way.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: And so honestly, it is like just luck of the draw of who walks into that office and you know, the opinion that they form about you.
10:13
SPEAKER_02: Oh, it is such a toss-up.
10:15
SPEAKER_02: I think even the idea of being too much of one thing or another is something that like constantly plays out for us in general.
10:22
SPEAKER_02: And I do want to kind of go along the lines of emotional responses.
10:28
SPEAKER_02: Do you ever cry with clients?
10:32
SPEAKER_02: And do you think it's appropriate to do so?
10:34
SPEAKER_01: I think speaking generally, I do find it appropriate.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: And I guess it is based on the situation and setting.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't say it is always appropriate in every setting.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: There is something to be said about how the reason why we are holding this space is because we are able to first manage ourselves and manage our emotions because you truly never know what is about to come out of your client's mouth.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: And so, on one hand, I think there's a piece of being prepared and able to hold that space without kind of completely letting your emotions take over.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: There's another part though of we are not robots.
11:19
SPEAKER_01: Like we are humans.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: And for the most part, I feel like, you know, obviously there's a lot of training that you go through when you're becoming a therapist and you're in school of how to kind of set yourself up to compartmentalize things or engage in self-care after your workday and have different rituals or things that you do to kind of help yourself remain grounded.
11:42
SPEAKER_01: But I think every now and then I'm definitely not one to hold back if I'm having a genuine reaction and something really does trigger me or cause me to have some type of heightened emotion.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm very direct and forthcoming in general with my clients.
12:01
SPEAKER_01: I would probably stop and let them know, like, wow, like this is causing me to feel emotional.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: And in some way, I think that that serves as empathy, really like sitting with the client in those emotions.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, just as long as to the point where it is being managed, it is being structured, so that at some point it's not like your client is feeling like, whoa, I just threw my therapist off and now I'm feeling responsible or guilty that I just shared that with them because it doesn't appear like they can hold it for me.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: So I think it's not black and white.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: It's not like a you should always be client uh crying or kind of sh forthcoming with your emotions with a client, like one way or the other.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: But I will say again, I'm not very rigid in my thinking.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: So I think I could always argue that there are moments when it serves a purpose to cry with your clients.
12:52
SPEAKER_02: I agree wholeheartedly.
12:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:54
SPEAKER_02: I'm not a crier, as you know.
12:56
SPEAKER_02: Maybe like twice a year.
12:57
SPEAKER_02: And I bet you one of those is like happy tears.
13:00
SPEAKER_02: The life of an Aquarius.
13:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:03
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I am easily excitable and can throw that out at any point in time.
13:09
SPEAKER_02: And it's not that I'm like a kind of person who is just immune to crying.
13:13
SPEAKER_02: I just don't often do it.
13:15
SPEAKER_02: Right.
13:15
SPEAKER_02: I will tear up though.
13:17
SPEAKER_02: It's normally it's something really nice.
13:20
SPEAKER_02: Maybe once had it happened with something sad.
13:24
SPEAKER_02: And I feel like there's this special moment of like having to be cautious that yes, your client now knows that you guys are really connected.
13:32
SPEAKER_02: You were actively listening.
13:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:34
SPEAKER_02: And it's eliciting a response that I think can make them feel validated.
13:38
SPEAKER_02: And the fear of I don't want you to feel like you need to take care of me now.
13:44
SPEAKER_02: Right.
13:44
SPEAKER_02: And a lot of clients will turn around immediately and then I'm trying to comfort you.
13:49
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, no, no, no.
13:51
SPEAKER_02: This is like a normal response, but perhaps our society has just kind of conditioned us to comfort anyone that we see crying.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: I think there's like something really special about being able to connect with a client to where you feel like you can kind of have a little bit more of an emotional response without the session turning into kind of an unethical space where all of a sudden the focus is not around the client anymore, but around the emotions that came from that session.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: In terms of big emotions, it could be something happy that you're crying about.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: I feel like a lot of the time when like I am starting to cry or feel those bigger, more intense emotions coming up during sessions, it usually revolves around my frustration, around like things that are out of my control, things that I can't control.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: So maybe caregivers' approaches.
14:44
SPEAKER_01: If one of my clients have parents that are unwilling to change their methods, how they engage with their kids, how they parent, that piece to some extent is out of my control.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: I can't change parents or their views or their perceptions of how they think they should be parenting.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: So that can sometimes feel frustrating, or I think of moments when I'm working with kids in the foster system or have, you know, social workers in our state, and I'm frustrated with the systemic pieces of our work often.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: It's not often that a client comes in and tells me a piece of their trauma, and then I'm like, whoa, that's so sad.
15:23
SPEAKER_01: And I start crying with them.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: I do feel for them, but I think trauma and situations that my clients are explaining from like a personal lens can be really triggering for me, but it's when I feel like I have less pull or less control around how to help my client move forward.
15:43
SPEAKER_01: And that's when I think things feel emotional for me.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: Because again, I have that hat that I'm I'm the saver of the day.
15:50
SPEAKER_02: You just have to be at all times.
15:52
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
15:52
SPEAKER_02: And I think there's a little bit of I've heard some of these stories that are similar before because the human experience is relatively similar.
16:01
SPEAKER_02: The first time you hear it, I'm more likely to tear up.
16:03
SPEAKER_02: I always feel empathetic for them, but I think the shock value almost gets taken away.
16:09
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: I can definitely have empathy for a client who is telling me they have absent caregivers earlier on in my work in this field.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: That was something that I would think about if I wasn't at work.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: Or it felt a little heavier now because that shock factor has worn off.
16:29
SPEAKER_01: I've worked with hundreds of clients that report to me that their caregivers aren't present, or that's just obviously one small example.
16:36
SPEAKER_01: Things that come up and you hear them more often, you don't necessarily normalize them, but it's not the first time you've heard something.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: So you have some practice in how to respond and how to manage it, which makes things feel a little more balanced.
16:51
SPEAKER_02: I agree.
16:52
SPEAKER_02: Can I take you on a full roundabout?
16:54
SPEAKER_02: Love it.
16:54
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
16:55
SPEAKER_02: I want to talk about my Reddit deep dives, specifically in the therapist Reddit for all of these things.
17:01
SPEAKER_02: I want to talk about being a therapist and how it can ruin your relationships or your ability to connect to other people socially.
17:13
SPEAKER_02: Can you give me an example?
17:15
SPEAKER_02: What comes to your mind when you think of this question?
17:18
SPEAKER_02: I oftentimes think that it's both a good and a bad thing.
17:22
SPEAKER_02: When I was reading this post specifically, what I appreciated is that this person touched on the difficulty of meeting new people and being surface level after intensely talking about trauma and other really deep things with people on a day-to-day basis.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: I will say, I'm not saying that therapists have some crazy superpower, but I do think it takes a specific person to be a therapist and to stay in the field of working as a therapist.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: I am an empath.
17:56
SPEAKER_01: I just think that I do in some way have skills around like I can come to work, listen to trauma, be very engaged in the crisis setting.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: And then I am really good about kind of flipping that switch off when it comes time for me to walk out.
18:13
SPEAKER_01: I will say with that though, because our jobs do take a lot out of us socially, there are days where I've seen my clients, I've done my meetings, I've engaged in my workday, and then I am canceling plans in the evenings to go out with my friends or something like that.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm a little more inclined to just have some alone time because it does feel like you're stretching yourself to some extent when you're at work.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: So when I get off of work, I don't have any more capacity to stretch myself, whether it's with one of my best friends or my partner or family members that really shouldn't feel like it takes a lot of energy to engage with them.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: After a long work day, it it feels like a stretch.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: That you're just giving all you can until there's literally nothing left.
19:01
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
19:01
SPEAKER_01: So in some ways, I feel like if I'm really mindful about how I'm managing my schedule and making sure that like I am utilizing my PTO, it's not sitting there building up month after month.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: Can I interject?
19:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: You have PTO that builds up beyond like a week.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: That was part of working for a nonprofit, is I am compensated in my benefits.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: And I I do have PTO in sick time that builds up because that's how you survive.
19:29
SPEAKER_02: I think I just take all of mine as needed.
19:31
SPEAKER_02: And by as needed, I mean at least all the time.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean back to like type A and type B, you are really good about planning ahead a vacation.
19:40
SPEAKER_01: Like you travel.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: Whereas like I feel like I do travel, but a lot of my travel is like spontaneous, last minute, like, oh, I'm gonna take an extra day for a long weekend or something like that.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: I'm not as great as like six months from now saying, oh, I'm gonna take a week off to go to Hawaii.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: Like my brain unfortunately doesn't work like that.
20:03
SPEAKER_01: I feel like conversation skills have always come pretty easy to me because I'm a chatty Gemini.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: And so, in terms of being a therapist, if anything, I feel like it almost hinders my social battery in times that I'm outside of work.
20:21
SPEAKER_02: I feel like I have a little bit of a different take.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: Probably the opposite based on, you know, our normal Tara and Erica thought.
20:31
SPEAKER_02: It's not too opposite.
20:32
SPEAKER_02: I will say, in some ways, I think it's made me better.
20:35
SPEAKER_02: I'm better at finding ways to connect with people I don't know at all.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: I'm a better active listener.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: And I think sometimes I will stray away from topics that maybe I used to engage in.
20:50
SPEAKER_02: I usually don't want to talk mental health in any capacity when I'm not at work or a work-related project.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
20:57
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes my brain literally turns off.
20:59
SPEAKER_02: Almost like this part of me that's like, hey, you're a working professional, gets tucked into a corner.
21:05
SPEAKER_02: Let's think about all the fun things that you don't have time for sometimes during the day.
21:11
SPEAKER_02: So I'm almost aggressively bombarded by those things, which much like you makes me less present for some of my friends and family members.
21:22
SPEAKER_02: Simultaneously, I spend a lot of time listening and reflecting, and I don't get to do a lot of talking.
21:29
SPEAKER_02: And I most certainly am not putting my opinion places, which is hard for somebody who's put their opinion everywhere.
21:34
SPEAKER_02: It could ever be welcomed and unwelcomed my entire life.
21:38
SPEAKER_02: So maybe it makes me more aggressively chatty to other people.
21:43
SPEAKER_02: Aggressive might be the wrong word.
21:45
SPEAKER_02: Or maybe not.
21:46
SPEAKER_02: Maybe it it's right, spot on.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: I definitely see what you mean though.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I'm having a brain block.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: I had a thought, I had a thought in my head, and now I got nothing in my head.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: It's black screen.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Honestly.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, is that what your brain looks like when you visualize the inside of it?
22:04
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's like there is absolute chaos going on in my brain, and I can just pick out a million visuals.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: And then there are other times where yeah, it feels like my ADHD pulls down like a blank black screen and it's like lights on, but no one's home type thing.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: Which is crazy.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: I know.
22:24
SPEAKER_02: I always think about my brain like a library.
22:27
SPEAKER_02: Every book is like perfectly organized by section, but occasionally there are teenagers who come in and like light fires in the trash can.
22:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:34
SPEAKER_02: And then I'm just running around chaotically trying to get it all back together.
22:39
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I ever told you this.
22:41
SPEAKER_02: I was an intern during COVID, right?
22:46
SPEAKER_02: So right when the world had opened back up.
22:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:49
SPEAKER_02: I had not had COVID.
22:50
SPEAKER_02: I had just been vaccinated for the second time.
22:53
SPEAKER_02: So it's like I'm golden.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: I'm now protected forever because clearly I understand how science works.
22:58
SPEAKER_02: And I'm sitting in a session, and as you know, there are so many things in my brain all the time.
23:03
SPEAKER_02: And all of a sudden, nothing.
23:05
SPEAKER_02: Oh, blank screen you're describing.
23:07
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh no.
23:10
SPEAKER_02: Like, this is it.
23:11
SPEAKER_02: This is my moment.
23:12
SPEAKER_02: And then I was like, it's still nothing.
23:13
SPEAKER_02: This person's talking to me.
23:15
SPEAKER_02: They're looking right at my eyes.
23:16
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I've got no response.
23:19
SPEAKER_02: And suddenly my body doesn't know how to respond either.
23:21
SPEAKER_02: Like, do I not?
23:22
SPEAKER_02: Or what's gonna happen?
23:24
SPEAKER_02: And thank God it was like three minutes before the end of that meeting.
23:27
SPEAKER_02: And then I went and took a COPA test and it lit up.
23:31
SPEAKER_02: Really?
23:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:32
SPEAKER_02: I struggled with forming like a thought of any kind for the month after that.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: That is so interesting.
23:40
SPEAKER_01: And also interesting that the world was opening back up and you were just now experiencing having COVID.
23:46
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
23:47
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
23:47
SPEAKER_02: I know that was a weird thought.
23:48
SPEAKER_02: Most people got it early on.
23:50
SPEAKER_02: I did not.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: I had it like four times in the first two years.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: Four times?
23:54
SPEAKER_01: I had it, I think eight times throughout that whole COVID experience.
23:59
SPEAKER_01: And I remember the first time it was pretty tragic.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: I remember thinking, oh, this is my time.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm about to I'm about to be a goner.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: And then every time that I had it after that, it was like just it felt like a very mild cold.
24:13
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
24:14
SPEAKER_02: No, I've had it just that one time.
24:16
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
24:16
SPEAKER_02: I know it's weird.
24:17
SPEAKER_02: That is interesting.
24:18
SPEAKER_02: I also, I don't know.
24:20
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, I come from like a lineage of cockroach people.
24:23
SPEAKER_02: And that we just survive no matter what.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: You guys just make it no matter what.
24:27
SPEAKER_01: And that was my sister too.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: And I always wondered, my sister works in a hospital.
24:31
SPEAKER_01: She's an ER nurse.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: I always wondered if there was some sort of immunity or something like working in a hospital, because I don't think she ever got it.
24:39
SPEAKER_02: There's gotta be some form of you're exposed to everything all the time.
24:42
SPEAKER_02: I was actually working while I was doing my internship at a fancy daycare and with infants.
24:49
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
24:50
SPEAKER_02: So they were sneezing into my eyes and my mouth on a regular basis, which is the most foul thing ever.
24:55
SPEAKER_02: Simultaneously, you can't be mad.
24:58
SPEAKER_02: And uh, I don't know, I would get a cold occasionally, but in COVID, just the one time.
25:05
SPEAKER_02: So interesting.
25:06
SPEAKER_02: It just was an interesting sensation for me because I just was not familiar with the idea of having your brain be entirely blank.
25:15
SPEAKER_02: And I'm glad I had that experience because I feel like I can understand the context a little bit more.
25:21
SPEAKER_02: I was reading a study recently in relation to men and women and the different way their brains function, in that in this study, it relayed that men oftentimes have moments that their brain is just not firing as often as women.
25:37
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
25:38
SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if that is a cultural thing or if it changes in context ever.
25:45
SPEAKER_02: But the idea that they sometimes get a little bit more peace than we do sounds really nice.
25:51
SPEAKER_02: I would like to learn how to do more of that.
25:53
SPEAKER_02: Who decided this?
25:54
SPEAKER_02: I have no idea.
25:56
SPEAKER_02: It was really fascinating.
25:57
SPEAKER_02: I will be the first to say I could be entirely wrong about if this article I read is super founded and if they're from other studies.
26:07
SPEAKER_02: Right.
26:07
SPEAKER_02: But I was just fascinated because even sitting in sessions, people describe this to me frequently.
26:13
SPEAKER_02: It's more often women than men.
26:15
SPEAKER_02: Their partner is just not thinking of things the same way they are.
26:21
SPEAKER_02: Like the thought is just not occurring.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: Okay, this totally brings me back to an old Netflix show.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: Maybe you could pick it out, maybe not.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: But there was a show on Netflix of there was, I think it was called Brain Games.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: Have you heard of this?
26:36
SPEAKER_00: Oh, say more.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so they were little short episodes where the host would put on challenges for people, like little activities.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: There was one specific episode that was like girls versus boys, and they had set up two cars.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: The goal was they took a female and a male and said, We have all of this stuff, like suitcases and bags and pillows and random stuff that you need to fit into the trunk of this car.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna have a man do it and a woman do it and compare and contrast.
27:09
SPEAKER_01: I love this.
27:09
SPEAKER_01: And so it was really great because obviously during the episode, there was lots of different activities.
27:13
SPEAKER_01: I can't remember off the top of my head what other activities, but you could see the clear distinction of some of the activities the women were able to complete, just like no issues at all.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: It was simple for them.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: The men would struggle.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: This specific activity where both parties were asked to organize, fill the trunk in a way where all the stuff would fit.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: At the end of the task, the male had everything packed in the trunk.
27:40
SPEAKER_01: It all fit perfectly.
27:42
SPEAKER_01: He was able to close the trunk.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: And the woman was like, there was stuff flying out.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: She wasn't able to get the trunk closed.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: I can't remember specifically, but the host talked about how the male brain has like more spatial awareness.
27:57
SPEAKER_01: They're able to gauge what spaces and how things can fit, or it was like directions.
28:03
SPEAKER_01: Men are able to remember like directionally where they're at driving, whereas women would need to drive that route two or three times to get it.
28:11
SPEAKER_01: It was really interesting to see kind of the differences in a male versus female brain, which obviously I don't remember a ton of details or information from that episode.
28:20
SPEAKER_02: Wait, you don't remember everything from this Netflix show that one time?
28:24
SPEAKER_01: Right, like years and years ago.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: I think I was probably in my early 20s.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: I have no idea, but it was a cool show.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: That is fascinating.
28:31
SPEAKER_02: I always just wonder what it is, if it's conditioning over time, or if it's genuinely that brains are firing differently.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: Right.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: What is that?
28:39
SPEAKER_01: Biology of the brain and how it's set up, structured, different from female to male.
28:45
SPEAKER_01: I have no idea.
28:46
SPEAKER_02: Nature versus nurture.
28:47
SPEAKER_02: There you go.
28:48
SPEAKER_02: Who knows?
28:49
SPEAKER_02: I have zero accurate answers for that right in this moment.
28:52
SPEAKER_02: Right.
28:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I got nothing.
28:54
SPEAKER_02: But what I do have is a fun thing for you.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: So on my way here, for people who don't know, me and Tara do not live in the same city.
29:02
SPEAKER_02: So I was commuting to her today.
29:04
SPEAKER_02: And on my drive, I saw two things that just really warmed my heart.
29:09
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
29:09
SPEAKER_02: One was an in-and-out burger.
29:12
SPEAKER_02: I didn't know those existed in Washington State.
29:14
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
29:15
SPEAKER_02: It was a new thing.
29:16
SPEAKER_02: I the line looked insane.
29:18
SPEAKER_02: I was very excited about it though.
29:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: I did not think to prompt you, but there's actually two.
29:25
SPEAKER_01: One of them you're gonna pass on your journey home.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: And the other one, they just opened, I don't know, maybe like a month or two on the opposite side of town.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: I will say, no matter how chaotic it appears to look, I've been to both in and out locations many times.
29:43
SPEAKER_01: And I've never waited more than 10 minutes because they just they have it organized.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: They have so many workers in there.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: So amazing.
29:50
SPEAKER_02: 10 out of 10 would recommend stopping literally home because it is worth every bit of it.
29:56
SPEAKER_02: Without a doubt.
29:57
SPEAKER_02: And I realize some people hate in and out because they're like, it's not that great, and they're wrong.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: Secondarily, it's like the thing that we can't get as much.
30:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:06
SPEAKER_02: And that's where the draw is for me.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: When I moved to this town, not only did I get to move near an in and out, but there's also a raisin canes here.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what that is.
30:16
SPEAKER_01: Not familiar.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: So when I lived on the other side of the country, this was a thing.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: It's like chicken place.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: They have um, I'm trying to think of what you could compare it to.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: Maybe like similar to like Popeye vibes, but a little bit better.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: There's also a raising canes here that has some good trips, if that's a thing.
30:34
SPEAKER_02: I love that idea.
30:35
SPEAKER_02: My second thing, why'd you save this secondarily on purpose?
30:38
SPEAKER_02: I was driving behind a car and I love a good car sticker.
30:42
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
30:42
SPEAKER_02: I don't have any really, right, but I appreciate other people's and what they feel like they need to communicate on the road to other drivers.
30:50
SPEAKER_02: So I'm behind this car and I clock what it says, and then immediately my brain is like, no, that's that's not right.
30:58
SPEAKER_02: And so I read it again.
30:59
SPEAKER_02: And the sticker reads, Milfin ain't easy.
31:02
SPEAKER_02: It brought me so much joy in that moment that that was what that person decided they wanted to communicate.
31:08
SPEAKER_01: Did you get a glimpse of who was driving that car?
31:11
SPEAKER_02: Uh, it was a woman, and she had immaculate hair and makeup.
31:16
SPEAKER_02: It was all very cute and well done.
31:18
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, clearly, she's like living into this vibe.
31:21
SPEAKER_02: Like, she she's doing the thing.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: Okay, we love a confident queen.
31:26
SPEAKER_02: I love it so much.
31:27
SPEAKER_02: And I love that of every sticker in the world, she was like, This is what I want people to know about me.
31:33
SPEAKER_02: That is amazing.
31:35
SPEAKER_01: That would bring me joy too.
31:36
SPEAKER_02: So that was my joyful thing.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: Ah, those are both great things.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited for your in-and-out journey.
31:42
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: What's something that's bringing you joy lately?
31:46
SPEAKER_01: Let's see.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: Recently, I've gotta say that I am not a hot weather girl.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: I feel like most people thrive in the summertime.
31:56
SPEAKER_01: You know, hang on for dear life for the warm summer months.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: I just like can't wait for them to be over.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: So recently, now that pumpkin items are back on the menus, we're creeping into hoodie, beanie weather.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's been bringing me joy.
32:14
SPEAKER_01: Just like the weather's gonna cool down, the rain will come.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: I'm such a rain girl.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: I don't care what anybody says about it.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: I love a rainy day.
32:22
SPEAKER_02: It's the smell, it's just like everything is new, and the day cannot go wrong.
32:28
SPEAKER_01: It's vibes that the first rainy day of the season.
32:30
SPEAKER_01: It almost like my brain gives me permission to sit on the couch, watch Twilight, do absolutely nothing.
32:37
SPEAKER_01: You know?
32:37
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
32:38
SPEAKER_01: Watch Twilight wasn't it?
32:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, because when it rains, all I think of is Forks, Washington, England Slit, and Zella.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: She moved to the rainiest city.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, oh, it's raining.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: This is my cozy race.
32:52
SPEAKER_01: They set her throw on Edward, you know?
32:55
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: I mean, whatever brings you joy.
32:58
SPEAKER_01: Honestly, holidays are coming up.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: I love the holiday, the Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas jump.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: I think I'm in agreement with you that colder weather just feels better here.
33:10
SPEAKER_02: We're just not equipped.
33:11
SPEAKER_02: And I don't know, I feel like our job becomes more interesting when it gets cold.
33:16
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
33:16
SPEAKER_02: Like everyone here is like, I want to go do all the things.
33:19
SPEAKER_02: So I'm not gonna be in therapy for the summer.
33:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:22
SPEAKER_02: And then I think we all come back to the reality of where we live.
33:26
SPEAKER_02: And uh the fact that we don't have to fit our entire lives into three months.
33:30
SPEAKER_02: We actually get to do the work that we enjoy doing.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: Then we have to readdress all the shit that went down in those three months when people weren't attending therapy and always like put a quick band-aid on it and then restart again.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like a cycle.
33:43
SPEAKER_02: Do our best, but it's definitely a time up here.
33:46
SPEAKER_02: I always wonder how people do it when they live warm places all the time, as they're just like constant cancellations.
33:52
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: When I was in Cape Cod, I just have never lived in a place where humidity is a factor that you literally have to factor into your day-to-day schedule.
34:04
SPEAKER_01: There was one day where we just wanted to walk around this cute little beach town and go in shops and get ice cream, get lunch.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: It was only, I want to say, like 85 degrees outside, but the humidity, I could not breathe.
34:20
SPEAKER_01: Like we were trying so hard to just walk around and enjoy ourselves.
34:24
SPEAKER_01: Um which we also took a trip to Florida this summer and experienced the same thing.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: We were wanting to enjoy the magic of Disney and simultaneously just like fighting for our lives and the humidity.
34:37
SPEAKER_01: It's just wet at that point in time.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: And so I have never been more grateful that I live in a space where it might get hot a little bit here of the summer, but we do not deal with the terrors of the humidity.
34:50
SPEAKER_02: Oh, well, jokes on you.
34:52
SPEAKER_02: I know that you know that I'm transitioning offices, but my previous office is when I first toured it, it was in the cold months.
35:00
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, this is beautiful.
35:02
SPEAKER_02: It's like two walls a pure window top to bottom.
35:05
SPEAKER_02: Oh, and I was like, this is gonna be great.
35:08
SPEAKER_02: Except for those windows don't open, right?
35:11
SPEAKER_02: So it is just greenhouse.
35:13
SPEAKER_02: Yay! All the time in that office.
35:15
SPEAKER_02: And I feel so bad for my clients.
35:18
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I can see them glancing my way because my hair does not do humidity.
35:22
SPEAKER_02: Right.
35:22
SPEAKER_02: And my hair is um fluffy, I guess you could say.
35:27
SPEAKER_02: It's naturally like kind of wavy, but maybe not.
35:31
SPEAKER_02: Who knows what's going on?
35:33
SPEAKER_02: Did you just wake up?
35:34
SPEAKER_02: Are you are you uh struggling with power in your house?
35:38
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
35:38
SPEAKER_02: Is its natural state of being?
35:40
SPEAKER_02: So I usually try and do something to it to make it look presentable.
35:43
SPEAKER_02: And then the humidity is like, we're not gonna do that today.
35:47
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I'll just be sitting there trying to be present, and my I can feel my hair growing.
35:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like thicker and bigger, and I can see the person trying to talk to me, get distracted by it.
35:56
SPEAKER_02: I feel so genuinely bad.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh I mean, the windows have got to be a vibe, but you can see how that just creates, especially in the warmer months.
36:07
SPEAKER_02: Oh man.
36:08
SPEAKER_02: Issues.
36:08
SPEAKER_02: And our HVAC system, I found out recently, was broken.
36:12
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
36:13
SPEAKER_02: Apparently they fixed it.
36:14
SPEAKER_02: I don't know how or when.
36:16
SPEAKER_02: That has not occurred to me in my office yet, but that seems like an issue for past Eric, and I'm just not gonna worry about that anymore.
36:23
SPEAKER_02: No, not your issue.
36:24
SPEAKER_02: No, but special problems.
36:27
SPEAKER_02: Thank goodness we only have to deal with in a small section of the month.
36:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, definitely not.
36:33
SPEAKER_02: Speaking of problems, I know we're on a time crunch, so I still have not thought of a way to close this podcast.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: I think at this point our closing is just Erica looking at me and being like, So we don't have an ending.
36:48
SPEAKER_01: And we say, you know, that's that.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: It is what it is.
36:51
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being here.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: That's that.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: See you next week.