Latest / Arizona Unscripted / Episode 3: 🌵 Arizona Unscripted - Pinal County Uncovered: Food, Fun & Lava Tube Adventures!
Transcript
- Speaker 2: Hey, welcome back to another episode of Arizona Unscripted. It's the podcast for Arizona and all about Arizona. Arizonians all around the state, every county, every city. We're going to be going places along Route 66. We're going to be talking about barbecues, what's coming up this summer. And I'm super excited about the summer. But before we do that, I'm going to introduce you guys to my wonderful co-host. I have Diane here. Hey, Diane. Speaker 4: Hey Bart. Good to see you again. I'm great. Some of that barbecue we were talking about. Speaker 2: see you too. How you doing? Awesome. I know. I know I've been thinking about that last our last podcast about that. I'm like, ⁓ man, I haven't had a chance. I'm gonna do it though, I promise. I'm gonna get the the water out and smoke some make some barbecued smoke special ice cubes just for my just for my son in law and myself. And Jim, how are you doing out there? ⁓ can't hear Jim. Jim, are you up there? Let's see if he's on ⁓ let's see if you can bring him in here. One, two, three, Jimmy you there? He's muted, I think. Well, we'll have to bring in Jim later once he gets back online because for some reason he's muted. I don't know why. But anyway, but today we have a wonderful guest, host. And she's gonna be coming on more often, I think, because I what I've heard is she has some of my similar likes about certain things all about Hobbiton. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: Anyway, I'm gonna bring in Jennifer from she's from P Pilma County, right? Jennifer, am I pronouncing that properly? I can't remember how to pronounce that. I thought it wrong. I'm so sorry. I'll get it right. Speaker 1: It's Pinnell County. Speaker 3: He did it. Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah. Hello Diane. How are you? Speaker 4: I am great. It is so good to have you here with us today. Speaker 1: Thank you. I love to be here today. ⁓ and we love barbecue down here in Pinnell. Just want to be clear on that. ⁓ I also have Caroline Gordon, who is the ⁓ one of my ⁓ leadership members in the Pinnell County Democratic Party. She's on tonight, or today, and she can talk to us a little bit. ⁓ so yeah, really excited to be here. Speaker 2: Tell us tell us more a little bit more about Pennell County. I wanna hear more a little bit more. I know I've been through there at one point or time here and there and there, but I know I I don't know what that will. But go ahead. Speaker 1: So ⁓ Pennell County is just southeast of Maricopa County, which is of course the biggest county in terms of population. ⁓ and so we are feeling the effects of the monstrous growth that Maricopa County has seen. We are now the fastest growing county west of the Mississippi River. ⁓ and we're the third fastest throughout the entire United States, which means things are changing all the time here. ⁓ our county seat is the town of Florence, which literally sits right in the center of the county, and then everything else is out at the edge of the county. So there's like this one little ⁓ there's this one little town, and then there's a little town next to it called Coolidge, and then outside of that everything is around the edges. So Apache Junction is ⁓ Up at the corner and it it borders Mesa on the east. So if you're familiar with where Mesa's at. And then you take it's not Route 66, but we do have ⁓ Highway US 60 that runs through the northern part of our county and it connects Apache Junction to Gold Canyon. And if you are familiar or have ever heard about the Arizona Rena Renaissance Fair, that's where the Renaissance Festival is. Speaker 2: ⁓ that's interesting. Yeah, is now when is when's that happening? Do you have ⁓ data on that one? Speaker 1: ⁓ so it it opens President's Day weekend every year and it's open every weekend until the end of March. So it's usually six or seven weekends that it's open. And ⁓ Speaker 2: Big chicken legs, the biggie whatever, the big ⁓ whatever it is, wiggy legs and the Speaker 1: The big turkey legs. Yep. And one of my favorite content creators was there this year, Jack Z Whipper. ⁓ and he used to be he used to be a news guy on NPR, but he actually left NPR News to go do ⁓ literally whipping shows with big, big long whips. And he was at the Renaissance Festival. Wow. Jack Z. So it's Jacques as in J A E Q U E S. Speaker 2: Zeep yeah. Speaker 1: And then Z, ⁓ Z E. Speaker 2: Can we get him on the podcast sometime? That'd be amazing discussion about Speaker 1: That actually probably would be amazing. How do find Creator? You could go look him up on, you know, TikTok and social medias and stuff like that. Yeah. but then if you continue further east along US sixty, you get to Superior, which is at the one edge of a ring of mountains that kind of runs around the ⁓ the superstitions that kind of runs around the valley. And you go to superior, which is one of our ⁓ four C's. From Arizona is there, and that's copper. Superior is a big copper mining town. And from Superior, you can head south on the 77th through what we call the Copper Corridor and visit some of our other little towns in Pennell, like Kearney, ⁓ Winkleman, Mammoth, San Manuel, Oracle, and they all have some relation. ⁓ Kearney has a big copper mine there as well. ⁓ Speaker 4: Copper. Yeah. Speaker 1: They're all little mining towns that you kind of travel through. And then that takes you, you finish you you meet up with the 79, ⁓ literally just about a mile north of the Pennell County, Pima County border. And it's actually Tucson. So they're part of Tucson, what we call the census designated place of Tucson that is in Pinnell County, and nobody ever knows that until you start studying the geography. And then you follow the 10, and the 10 kind of takes you around the southern part and it loops back up and runs you along the not quite the western edge, but you go through Red Rock and Piccado up into Casa Grande, which many of us have heard of. ⁓ and you just take that up and you can follow that into ⁓ either the town of Maricopa, which is in Pinnell County, or the county of Maricopa, which is not where the town is. Speaker 2: Well asking that sounds a little confusing. Speaker 1: It is it is very confusing. And I have people all the time and they're like, Well, what about the Maricopa part? And I was like, Well, are you talking there is no Maricopa part of my county if you're talking about the county, but in Pinnell, there is the t the city of Maricopa, and it was ⁓ we actually have the two most recently founded cities in Arizona are both in Pennell County. It's Santan Valley, which was incorporated in August of last year in an election. And then prior to that in two thousand two, it was the city of Maricopa was incorporated. And those are the two most recent incorporations in Arizona. And they're both here in Pennell County. Speaker 4: And I'm listening to Jennifer and I'm thinking about that road trip we've been talking about. And I think Jennifer, aren't you into rocks as well? Speaker 1: ⁓ I am very much into rocks. ⁓ wow. Very, very much into rocks. I didn't I totally should have brought my favorite rock, but as Diane can tell you, I actually have a little video that I made to explain my rocks. Speaker 4: love rocks. Every time I move people are like, What is in this box that feels like rocks? And I'm like, rocks. Speaker 1: Yeah, it's my box of rocks. ⁓ and I got so I actually got my my favorite rock I got up in Coconino County. A little foreshadowing for us there at the San Francisco ⁓ volcano fields. And it is a rock that it was ⁓ part of an ejecta from volcano and part of it cooled under the ground and part of it cooled over the ground. Speaker 2: That's super super cool. Speaker 1: It's got very different features depending on which side of the rock that you're looking at. ⁓ so yeah. I'm big rock nerd. Speaker 4: And speaking of coconut, we have Laura Carter here with us today. Hey Laura. We just lost Laura. She just went on mute. Hello. Speaker 2: Hey Lu. Speaker 3: excited that you guys are talking about rocks because we're all about the geology here in northern Arizona. Speaker 4: That's awesome. We're all rock nerds. Speaker 2: ⁓ wow. ⁓ Speaker 1: So one of my favorite trips that I went on, Laura, I went up to Coconino and I went hiking. Well, I went is it hiking or spelunking? I went into the lava tubes. Speaker 3: Spelunking, you did some caving. Awesome. Yeah. A little bit of caving. That's so fun. Yeah, our lava tubes are famous. And you know, you can hike inside the volcano or you can hike on the outside of it. But either way, you're gonna have an amazing experience up here at 7,000 feet. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 4: Blunking? ⁓ Yeah, you know, Bart, you were talking ⁓ la either our last podcast or the one before when we were talking about getting out of the heat and going to some of the cooler places. Targeted for my cooler place. Speaker 2: Seven. Yeah, it sounded like splunking the Speaker 1: And a bit. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 3: This is our season. Speaker 2: That's great. And and how far down in those tubes can you go? I mean, when you're up at the volcano or when you're s is it like really deep, like hundreds of feet or tens of feet or what what's the deal? Speaker 1: So lava tubes happen when lava shoots at the side of the volcano. So you're not at the top of the volcano. I actually don't know how deep ⁓ from the like how what the the distance is from the top of the mountain ⁓ or the top of the the old volcano down, but you can hike. I mean you can walk a good fifteen, twenty minutes in before you reach the end of the lava tube. Speaker 2: ⁓ Is it is it lighted or you have to walk in with all your stuff? I mean, is it like you gotta Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to have a headlamp. ⁓ and you want to have a headlamp, you don't want to carry a lamp because there are a couple of places where the clearance is only about two or three feet. So you have to essentially like crawl on your belly to get to some of the deeper deeper parts of the cavern. Speaker 2: Well, for some folks it's pretty challeng there'll be a little challenge there, right? Trying to go into something like that. Yeah. Speaker 1: Yeah, but I I'm a rock nerd and there's things you can see that deep inside a mountain that you can't see when you're just walking around the outside. Speaker 2: That's so amazing. And at seven thousand feet it's gonna be snowing up there sometimes or whatever, right? It's gonna be pretty pretty cool up there, like you're saying, Diane. Up the top, ⁓ in Speaker 4: Yes. I'll see. Speaker 3: The lava tubes are closed in the wintertime because you they close those forest service roads because of snow. but you'll need a jacket even in summer when you get down in those tubes, pretty cool. And here ⁓ in Flagstaff at 7,000 feet, you'll need a jacket in the evening, even in the summertime. The sun drops, so does the temperature. And we like it that way. Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. So Laura, I have a question. I actually have two questions for you. The first question is it is a hundred and six degrees right now in Santan Valley, Arizona. What is the temperature in Flagstaff right now? Speaker 3: I think it's like ⁓ in the mid seventies. We're gonna have a heat wave this week. It's gonna get up to eighty. Speaker 1: ⁓ my Speaker 2: ⁓ my gosh. Speaker 4: Yeah, we're at a hundred and ten right now and I'm just Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. Speaker 3: Like staff has never yet gotten to 90, although we've pushed pretty darn close. ⁓ I think with you know global warming, we're experiencing that too. So so we definitely get some heat waves up here. ⁓ we we complain if it gets over 80. But even when it's eighty, there's a cool mountain breeze and lots of beautiful shade from the largest contiguous ponderosa pine forest in the world. So come on up and cool off and flag stuff. We'd love to have you. Speaker 1: That's great. So the same trip where I went into the lava tubes, I went up with a ⁓ group of graduate students from ASU. I was studying geochemistry and I was up there with a group of geology, geochemistry, and even a couple of physics students. And on the way up there we saw ⁓ started to see snow. And someone took a picture of the snow and asked all of us rock nerds what kind of rock it was. What kind of mineral is this? 'Cause you know, ASU some of them had have never really left the valley to go somewhere cold and they're like, it was a it was a running joke that the snow had to be some kind of weird mineral that was Speaker 2: A glowing mineral. ⁓ my gosh, that's funny. So tell in in Pinnell County, was there anything special food you guys like? It's like a particular dish that's ⁓ just kind of for that county that they love? Speaker 1: ⁓ you know ⁓ we have the best roadside smoles, I will say anywhere in the world. ⁓ first of all Yep, ⁓ first of all, let me tell you if you buy tamales in a restaurant or a a grocery store, you're missing out. The best roadside smollies anywhere in the world are ⁓ Speaker 2: I I hear a challenge. Speaker 1: On the road, on the side of the road, and there's about three places that you can go in Pennell County and I will tell you always to stop and get a tamale from these folks. Speaker 2: Hey let's do a PSA on ⁓ Tell us t the names of the places. Let's go for it. Speaker 1: So they don't really have names, but there is a there is a woman who has this beautiful pop-up tent that looks like a pagoda and she ⁓ she is on the side of what's called Schneff Road. And if you're familiar with Pennell County, ⁓ it all most of it used to be owned by a family called the Schnepps, and that's S-C-H-N-E-P-F. ⁓ and they used to own the majority of northern Pennell County, basically up into the Apache Junction area. And so Schneff Road and it's across from it's just south of Akateo on the west side of the street. So if you're heading south, it's on the west side of the street, and you will see her if you get to the ⁓ quarry where where they're mining where they're literally mining rocks, you've gone too far and you should turn around. Speaker 2: You like have like a real problem when you go have Tamala's dinner, do you head to the rock quarry after that or is that or you Speaker 1: Well don't I wish, but ⁓ they do have no trespassing signs because if you're not someone who is comfortable traveling in like a rock quarry, ⁓ you can really get hurt climbing around in there. So my PSA is don't go into a rock quarry unless there's someone who actually really knows what you're doing there. ⁓ but there's there there's one there, then there's another one who sets up ⁓ there's ⁓ the three forty seven. Which is the main artery that runs from Interstate 10 just south of Chandler to the city of Maricopa. And you get in there and you get onto John Wayne Parkway, and then there's a Circle K. If you take a right at the Circle K and go about a mile, there is another really amazing one. Speaker 4: This is how we drive around our county. Speaker 2: ⁓ and for those and for audience members that go there, just tell ⁓ that you heard it on the podcast. They'll love it. Speaker 1: Yeah, just let ⁓ know you heard it on the podcast. Now one of the things I will warn folks about is a lot of these ⁓ women who do these side of the road smolly stands, their families at least are maybe not documented. so you do have to sort of pay attention to what kind of ice activity you have in the area happening because sometimes they shut down unexpectedly and they're just gone for a little while, which really, really Is unfortunate because they're such a I mean, they're such a part of the community. And if you tell people that you want to go to the the tamale lady just off the side, just off of the 347 in Maricopa, folks know exactly who you're talking about. They're such a part of the community. the tamale lady, she used to be at the pork shop. So we have this little this little ⁓ butcher shop that's called the pork shop, and they specialize in pork and they have a big pink pig. ⁓ those those. propane tanks that are like eight hundred or nine hundred huge gallons and they painted it pink and they put like little eyelashes on it and little ears. And it's the big pink pig. ⁓ and she used to be there, but they they're developing that area right now. So she can't be there anymore because there's no side of the road. It's all sidewalk and so she moved up the road a little bit, but yeah. Speaker 2: Wow. That sounds still I'm I'm so hungry now. Speaker 4: I know. You know what? I will tell you some people who have listened to our last couple podcasts that I got so hungry on both of your podcasts. I'm like, we got you. Because we're gonna tell you the good places to go in each of our counties. Speaker 1: So Laura, what do you guys have up there in Coconino? Speaker 3: Well, I'm gonna make a plug for Yummy Shack, which is on Sovereign Lands on Navajo Nation, just ⁓ just outside the little town of Cameron. ⁓ and it's just a little sweet outdoor shack on the side of the road with picnic tables, and they make the most divine fry bread you will ever taste. It's like a delicious flow. Dil ⁓ my god, it's so good. Speaker 1: As mm. Speaker 3: And then ⁓ if you you can just get that with some honey and that'll do. Or you can go all in and get the Navajo taco with beans and meat and lettuce and cheese and tomato and it's it's just ⁓ it will hold you all day long. Right. It's run by a little family. They're super friendly, they make delicious food. And they also w one of the family members makes jewelry, so you can also do a little Native American art Navajo jewelry shopping. Speaker 4: Go Speaker 3: And it's I highly recommend sitting outside and being in the beautiful northern Arizona lands on Navajo Nation and enjoy a Navajo taco. Speaker 2: Yeah, we should g get our audience members to go out and support these wonderful businesses. I mean, businesses like the heart of America. Speaker 3: And I have another one for you too, just because I have to brag. You know that the song ⁓ Standing on a Corner in Winslow, Arizona, was actually composed here in Flagstaff at what's now called the Doghouse. It used to be Dervener's Nitzel. And ⁓ that's where he saw some some Flagstaff women driving by in trucks and said, ⁓ my god, he actually turned to a friend and said, Do all the women in Flagstaff drive trucks? Flagsta Flagstaff just didn't Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: Yes, yes. Speaker 3: scan well in the song so they changed it to Winslow because it was just a better word for the rhythm of the song, but it starts here. Come on a corner in Flagstaff will feed you a delicious meal and ⁓ take you on a tour of the lava tubes and then we can go outside on the top of the lava tubes and hike around on the mountain and go check out Sunset Crater and Walnut Camp. Endless, endless opportunities for amazing adventures up here. Speaker 1: Stand on. Speaker 4: Awesome. That's great. I will tell you, I was working on a mural of all fifteen counties. And when I got the photo from Laura, I was like, Wow, is that real? Is that background real? And she's like, Yes, it is. Speaker 2: That's awesome. Speaker 1: And so Speaker 3: the meat it's the most beautiful land in the world and the second largest county by landmass in the entire country. ⁓ so not so many people but lots of landmass. So it's a great Speaker 2: like we ⁓ you know of course we have we're ⁓ you know g Jennifer has a wonderful story about Pennell County, but we may have to we may have to come back, Lauren. We gotta come back and and talk more about Flagstaff area. Mike It sounds like I mean, especially as it gets hotter, I think we can have more discussions about that. Speaker 1: Okay, well. Speaker 4: Yes. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 3: You all you all flee up here in the summer, but we're longing for the desert in the wintertime. Speaker 2: ⁓ it's almost like a s like a swap, like a swappy like a snow like a Speaker 1: So our listeners in their homes can't see it, but I actually have Diane's mural with the faces of all of the county party chairs hanging up behind me on my wall right here. Yep. Yeah. Try Nick. I we have a fundraiser for our Secretary of State tomorrow night, so I had my ironing board out so that I could get my dress ready. Speaker 2: That's cool. So so Jennifer, is there an but by the way, is there anything coming up in in the near next few weeks for people like in in the county that could go to? Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. So ⁓ so yeah, Apache Junction has actually a whole bunch of stuff. ⁓ and I didn't even realize this until you guys started asking me about it. But ⁓ there is so they're participating in the Passport 250 project, which invites you to yep. So I'm I think you guys have talked about that. ⁓ so there are a couple of things down there. We have ⁓ the Lost Dutchman Trail, I think is one of the passports. Then there's a couple other historical passports. That you can do Speaker 4: really exciting. I know when I went on to look at what was in Mojave County, I was like, night excursions? I am in. I am so down for that. Speaker 2: ⁓ that sounds great. Wow. Are those like where you go out and see like wildlife at night type of thing or whatever, or you're seeing the stars or just Speaker 4: ⁓ the stars are gonna be incredible because we don't have very many streetlights. If once you get away from the casinos. Speaker 1: Okay. So and and depending another upcoming county, ⁓ La Paz County is actually known as a as a dark sky county. and I'm getting ready to do a project about that with work. So I'm really excited. ⁓ so right now they're doing an American flag display as part of that. Now, literally today is ⁓ local pit boss chef Sean O'Neill from Dutchman Count Country Barbecue, champion of Fox's master chef. is doing red, white, and barbecue at our county library today. Here I go. They're gonna they're gonna have tips and techniques to create your best barbecue experience. They're gonna teach you how to create your own spice rub and take and design a perfect barbecue apron to keep. Speaker 2: Car quick. ⁓ that's great. ⁓ my gosh, that's fantastic. And w and where's that where's that being held? Speaker 1: ⁓ so that is gonna be held at the Apache Junction Public Library, which is on Idaho Road, about a mile and a half north or two miles north of ⁓ US sixty. Is that Speaker 2: library is like like thing they're doing or is it like a ⁓ like a roadshow type of situation? Speaker 1: ⁓ it no, it's part of what the the library is doing. So and then ⁓ so the library is where they're hosting most of the events. They're gonna do an America Waves event. so on that's gonna be on June tenth. ⁓ and they're gonna you can pick up a flag from the library starting May twenty sixth and they're gonna do a celebratory sea of red, white, and blue. Speaker 2: ⁓ wow. Speaker 4: That sounds great. Speaker 1: ⁓ and then we are going to have a celebrate America two fifty, the Sesquis Centennial at the AJ Public Library, excuse me, from five to six thirty PM. And they're still adding stuff all the time. So those are those are kind of the big things that they're highlighting right now. Speaker 2: I mean people may not know but the libraries are have a lot of inf of course they have all the information, but they have a lot of of these different events and in displays and they're low cost. I mean, especially now in today's ⁓ world of ⁓ rising rising prices, ⁓ the library might offer some advantages, especially if you want to listen to audio podcasts or or audio audio books or whatever. I mean, yeah, please, ⁓ just check out the libraries. I I guess have to get we don't give them enough credit, I think, for all the things they can do. Speaker 3: It's an especially cool library because it has covered parking. Plenty of it. And the covering is all solar panels. ⁓ Love to see that. That's where we had our training, isn't it, Jennifer? We did our ⁓ courageous our ⁓ deep canvassing training there. Speaker 4: ⁓ well. Speaker 1: So that was actually the Florence Library. So believe it or not, the Apache Junction Library is even cooler than the Florence Library. But yes, the Florence Library is very cool. One of the things that many of our cities are taking advantage of is city open city city buildings are open primarily during the day when we have an overabundance of sunshine in southern Arizona and even up into northern Arizona like Mojave County. So almost all of our ⁓ city buildings have covered parking and the covered parking is the solar panels. ⁓ so that helps keep the electricity really ⁓ cost really low for our our county buildings, our county and city buildings. We also have, so I didn't realize this. I just saw this when you guys were asking me questions about this after our conversation last week. ⁓ but we have a special city of Apache Junction state 48 t-shirt. ⁓ that they are releasing for the sescocentennial. So that's actually coming out in the beginning of June, and I'm really excited to go see that. Speaker 3: We Speaker 4: So Bart, I'm seeing I I'm I'm feeling this county by county, this barbecue, the road trip, and what is our local libraries doing? I think that is something that would be really helpful for people in our community with rising costs to be able to go to a place for free. Speaker 2: Yeah, check it a little bit. Speaker 4: And be able to tap into all those resources. And how fun would it be for us to look at each of these counties that we have on the show and what people can do at their local? Speaker 2: Hey, let's try and get some of them on the show. Get them on the show and talk about their pro we don't 'cause we don't know the depth of their programming for the like the attachment sounds wonderful and and a great place to go, especially during the heat of the day. Obviously. Speaker 4: Yes. And ⁓ we have Katherine Hammond and she can come back for ⁓ one of our next episodes and she knows all about library things. So that would be a great conversation. Speaker 2: Right, great. Well well that'd be fun to have her on that and talk about those. Cool. Well I think go ahead. Speaker 1: I I did hear something the other day about the the ⁓ public neighborhood library is the one place where people can exist completely for free in society these days. There's no expectation that you're gonna spend any money to be there and you can't even go to a coffee shop these days, right? Speaker 2: Without without the guilt, yeah, without the guilty you gotta buy something. Speaker 1: You gotta buy something. You gotta spend ten bucks, six bucks on a cup of coffee and a muffin if you're gonna sit there. But you can go to a public library and just exist for free. And most of the public libraries you can access the internet. and librarians are great. you know, because somebody said, ⁓ you know, I was behind somebody in line trying to get a library card and they're like, I don't have a piece of mail with my address on it. And the librarian was like, okay, you know, well, let me write you a postcard. What is your ⁓ they found a way. So I would love to see a tour. ⁓ yeah. I have I have one more little story. It's not even from Pennell, it's from Gila County. But Gila County and Globe has this little itty bitty library, but on the outside they have all of these books. So they have somebody painted a mural. with ⁓ book bindings. And it was so amazing and they've got it it's ⁓ faces this little picnic area so you can sit outside and look through books and and just see this beautiful mural books. And libraries are just amazing. Speaker 4: I love that. Yes, and as Catherine said, libraries are the OG common ground, right? So yes, they are great, great, great resources. Speaker 2: Tips too for people who don't yet you may not want to spend ⁓ have a lot of money to spend on stuff. This is a great way to have them to to keep tap into those resources. Speaker 4: So yes, let's absolutely come back to that in a future episode. Speaker 2: Yeah. Well I think today and for anything I think we we will we'll end for today on the on discussion. We couldn't come back to though. We're definitely gonna come back 'cause the candy sounds amazing. I love the ring effect too. You know the ring Speaker 4: I'm reading back. A little Easter egg there. All right, well. Things everybody thinks Bart. Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, thank you so much, Diane. Thanks, Jennifer. Bye, everybody. Speaker 1: Thanks for having me on. Speaker 3: That was fun. Thanks. Bye. Speaker 4: All right. Jennifer, you