Latest / Arrivals: A Birth Story Podcast / A joyful hospital birth, the mothering gene, one and done, and postpartum depression + anxiety

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A joyful hospital birth, the mothering gene, one and done, and postpartum depression + anxiety · Arrivals: A Birth Story Podcast

• Merelise: Before we dive into today's episode, I want to talk to you about something incredibly close to my heart, and that's maternal health. I've spoken a lot about my own experiences on this podcast, especially related to mental health, and how important it is to seek help, whether through therapy or medicine. But we all know that's easier said than done. That's where Mère comes in, a virtual maternal health care clinic serving women from preconception through menopause. Mère was founded by a mom, just like you or me. Who struggled to find the support she needed during her own maternal health journey and wanted to create a better experience for other women. Mère brings together therapists, women's health providers, and pelvic floor specialists who understand the unique challenges women face throughout motherhood. Mère believes women deserve care that looks at the whole picture, not just one symptom or one appointment at a time. Book a free 15-minute phone call today and learn more at Mère-ForEveryChapter.com. That's Mère M-E-R-E dash for every chapter dot com. interesting. I mean it's interesting. Yeah. Like I'm I'm an attorney too. I'm an entertainment attorney too. That's how I tell people. So Okay, cool. Is there anything else? You know I can obviously edit whatever if you wanna restate something. I think that's it. Okay. So I'm nervous to be on this It's very it's very weird. I hope it'll be fun. Yeah, it will be. It will be. All right. Okay. Well, hello and welcome to the Arrivals Podcast. I'm your host, Marilee Swilson. And today I have Ryanne Saucier here with me. She is the creator and host of the How Do I Do This? podcast, as well as an attorney and mom, of course. So Ryanne, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be here. Me too. I'm excited. We were just talking before we started recording that we are flipping seats. You, as I mentioned, are a podcast host, and I was a guest on your podcast a couple weeks ago, and now we've got you here, and I'm so happy. Yeah, it's a weird feeling to be on this side when, you know, as an attorney and eldest daughter, like I'm used to running this show, and now you're running the show, and so yeah. I hope it do I hope I do it justice. You'll do amazing. I know that you are an extremely prepared person in general. And type A, I think self-identified. Absolutely. So I imagine it is just a little bit strange to not be able to prepare. But it's also nice too. Like I can turn off my brain and I trust you and I love your podcasts. I love the conversations you have. And so you know, I just prayerfully hope that whoever is listening that we give them value. Thank you. I love that. Thank you for that setting that intention. Yeah, for sure. so can you tell me a little bit about your journey to motherhood? Was it something you always knew you wanted? No. I mean, that's the short answer. I was never the little girl who really played with dolls, except for the fact that my dolls were characters that I was creating. I was always creating shows and writing stories. And so my stuffies and my dolls, I never played the role of mom and child really. I think I had one cabbage patch, which ironically I ended up giving my son the same initials as that cabbage patch. I didn't realize until nine months after he was born. I was like, my gosh, I gave you the same initials as my cabbage patch. Beside note. but so they were always characters and I was never the woman who really babysat in the neighborhood. If I did, it was for kind of the older children, 10, 11, 12, 13 kind of age range. I think before my son I maybe held one other infant, my godson. Yeah. and then my goddaughter. so no, it's not something I thought I wanted. I thought the mothering gene had skipped me. I think even up until the like in the labor and delivery room, I was like, I d I don't know if I can do this. And it was like, well, he's coming. So you need to figure it out. And so, I think what really flipped and I had him when I was when I was in the what do they call it now? Geriatric pregnancy age. Advanced. Yeah. Advanced. Right. And so we had started trying a few years before that and it took longer. And we were really okay with being everybody's cool aunt and uncle. And then one day I was I was obviously pregnant and that was exciting. And then he came when I was thirty six. Okay. So yeah. And then we have figured it out every day since then. Yeah. And so when you found out you were pregnant, knowing that you are type A, what was your approach to pregnancy and your plan for birth? So it's interesting. I was very focused. I will say that if there was ever a point in my life where I can honestly say my nutrition was absolutely on point, it was during that time. Like I was eating eggs every day, avocados, nothing processed. That's what I'm Tons salad. Like tons of salad, tons of fruit, tons of cottage cheese, a ton of Greek yogurt, and just because where I went down the road, I think all moms have sort of like a fixation is I wanna grow the healthiest human possible. And I wanna do things to grow his brain and his heart and to make sure he's strong and healthy. And so that meant putting good food in my body. And so that was really, really my focus. Birth plan and this is this is odd that I didn't do this, I still think that, is I didn't really have a plan which is so not like me. but I really trusted the team I delivered here in Atlanta at Northside. And I had a loose plan. I was more dedicated to the playlist that I had created on Spotify than than anything, but I knew that going into it, he would probably be my one and only. And so my plan was I wanted to feel labor. Like I wanted to have that human experience, but I left room to say, okay, at any point in time I can tap out and say, give me the drugs. And I totally did. Yeah. But I don't I don't remember at what at what point. But I was like, okay, and now we're done with this. Yeah. But it was a long labor. So the epidural had worn off a little bit. so there was like I did there was a lot of feelings there. Yeah. but There wasn't really a plan in the fact that I knew I wanted to experience it a lot and I had talked with my OBG by N and the labor and delivery nurses and I was like, let me know when we're getting to the pat point where we can't do an epidural anymore. and we got close and then I was like, Yeah, I think I'm I think I'm ready. but there was just I just had a lot of comfort in the team. I think one thing that really, really helped me was Northside here in Atlanta, for those that don't know, is is absolutely a baby factory. I think they deliver more babies than any other hospital in America. I think And so when when I checked in, all the labor and delivery nurses were like, Your doctor is who we go to. And I was like, I felt such comfort because they see the best and the worst of the doctors, right? They see them on their best days, their not so great days. They see how they treat everybody. They see how they treat the patients. They hear what's talked about when the patients are not present. And I was like, well, if they if that's who y'all choose, then I'm in good hands. Yeah. And so there was just like an immediate piece about it and besides my Spotify playlist which really influenced this is I wanted To bring my son into the world in a very peaceful way. Because you see on TV, I think that was the other thing I was really scared about. You know, women screaming and crying and cursing and cursing their spouses and cursing the people who are in the room. And I just did not want that to be his first experience of the outside world. I was just very convicted that I wanted it to be peaceful and loving. And when they handed him to me, I didn't cry. I actually just looked at him and laughed. I was just so joyful. I did cry later, but and and I even think that I remember the nurses saying, You're laughing. And I was like, I can't believe I have this. I just said, I just did this, right? And so like the whole time it was just very I was committed to the music and to the vibe, I guess. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. You knew what you wanted and what was important. Yeah. And I trusted the doctors to do what they and the nurses to do what they do best. And One of those things where being type A, being controlling, being the oldest daughter That I really had to say, I don't know what I don't know. Yeah. And these are the experts for a reason. And so I'm gonna get out of the driver's seat. Mm-hmm. That makes sense. But that was intentional too. So I guess there was a little bit of a plan. I like, yeah. I mean, you know, I think that there what's been so illuminating in doing this podcast, and what I hope a lot of people learn from it, is that there are so many different variations of a plan for birth that you can have. Everything, you know, from no plan to the most detailed list you can imagine, you know, everything in between. So I love that. It's a great example. Yeah. And I think with the kind of work I do being an attorney, you know, anytime I can get a call I could get a call and you have to pivot and you have to adjust. And so I think That was sort of my personality in a lot of ways. Like I definitely have a plan of how I would like most everything to go, whether that's dinner or the weekend or, you know, my son's trajectory in life. but also r le leaving room for space, for the unexpected, for love, for God, for all of those things to fill in and take me on a different direction. And so his birth was really no different. Yeah. How was pregnancy for you? Awful. Those you should have added some ice cream in to all those salads. Right. No well, it was just so I I don't know if it was being older. I'm not sure if it's because I have a low thyroid condition. I wasn't in the best shape as I am now and so I was carrying extra weight and so that was a little scary for me. but I was pretty much sick. all nine months. And it went from being sick all day. So I could kind of predict it to I think like the last trimester, the unpredictability. Like I would just walk past the smell and need to find a restroom. Yeah. Like it was just my son, he was big and hungry and he was I'm barely five four. And so he was eight point two okay pounds and twenty three inches. I joked that I had a little better raw turkey. I mean, he was all like I was just all belly. And so he just did a number on me. my mom, which I I which is was the precipice of me starting my podcast, how do I do this before she passed. She had type two diabetes, so did my grandmother. So they had me checking my blood sugar five times a day, even though I did not have gestational diabetes. to make sure that so I was doing science experiments in my office while I'm trying to practice law. We moved two states over. I found out I was Pregnant and had a job opportunity in Atlanta on the same day. my gosh. So there was just a lot of kind of upheaval. And then I think that coupled with the stress that pretty soon into it, I was like, These women who just love being pregnant, I don't understand that. Yeah. but Labor and delivery was was fine. Yeah. Like the thing I worried about the most was actually I was like, and I don't know if it's that thing that happens in your brain so that you procreate again, or if it was really I mean, it wasn't it was fine. Mm-hmm. It was just fine. Had your mom ever told you your birth story? You know, a little bit. My mom wasn't And since she's no longer with me, I have I've had time to really reflect on things I wish I had talked with her about. And so I tell my girlfriends this. So if you still have your mom, ask her your birth story. I remember that she told me she stood up and cooked Thanksgiving dinner. like a good Southern woman. Correct, because I was born on Black Friday. And so she'd cooked and she had a C section, because before me she had had a stillborn child. And so, small town Alabama, they decided that was the safest drought for her. and I was born in seventy nine, so early late seventies, early eighties. I was like right there on the coast of being born in nineteen eighty. But I don't know a lot about her pregnancy. I don't know anything about her perimenopause or menopause journey. It's now all of these question marks that when the doctors ask us on the forms to fill out, I have no information. And I really wish I did. and so for anybody listening that still has your mom, ask her those questions. Cause my mom was a good Southern woman. She would have answered me, but she wasn't going to willingly talk about it. She wasn't gonna volunteer. Yeah. No. I think part of that is Southern. I think part of it is their generation of women. it's something that I love about this generation of womanhood that we're in currently is that we share so much, maybe too much, some I wonder. But it's amazing. And I do I do Think and hope that it is going to change future generations of women. For sure. Because there's just a lot that are just blank spaces for me. that I don't know that I wish I knew. And I've asked my dad, but you know, again, generationally. My dad doesn't know. He's like, Well, I think and I'm like, just forget it, you know? Yeah. so yeah, so ask your mom. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah. So When did you go into labor? What was that like for you? So I really wanted my son to come on his own. I did not want to be induced because whether it's Tylenol, coal medicine, whatever, medicine just affects me really strongly. And I knew that about my body. And so I was fearful of the the P word Pitocin And so I was very like committed that I just wanted him to come when he was supposed to come. And so They had a date where they were like, Do you do you want to come check in? And I said, Can we just give it a few more days? And so they said, We you can. And so I checked in on a on a Sunday night after having a dinner with my parents and my husband. And I was already in labor and I didn't know it. I just thought I kind of felt off that day. I was super tired, but I had been tired. Right. And was kind of nauseated, but again, I've been nauseated. So nothing kind of like triggered my brain that, hey, you may be going into labor. But when I checked in I was already in labor, which was great. And he was actually born nine months from the day he was conceived. And the reason I know the day he was conceived is both my husband and I were traveling a lot at the time. And so it was scheduled. Yeah, it was scheduled. but that's also his personality. Yeah. My child, I joke around, was born with a clock up his ass. Like he even when I was growing him, I knew his patterns when he was asleep. Yeah. When he wasn't active. And so when he was born, getting him on a sleep schedule was pretty easy quite honestly because I I stuck closely to how he moved in me because I had written that down again being type A. I was like following his patterns, following whatever. Yeah. And so then we just kind of started shifting everything And by six weeks, and there are gonna be some women listening that's like, I hate you. Yeah. but by six weeks he was s sleeping six hour chunks at night. It's amazing. but that's very much his personality. he potty trained on when he w was ready. anything new He cannot be pushed, he cannot be pressured. Even if his friends are like, hey, let's go do this. He's like, Nope. I will do it when I'm ready. You know, he doesn't try new foods easily. but he's also the kid in school now who will tell the teacher, Hey, we're supposed to start science in 10 minutes. And, you know, they've now, of course, being a little older in grade school or like Teacher runs the room, you don't need to remind them. But he loves to know what time it is. And one of the first phrases he learned, I remember coming into his his nursery and he was they was barely pulling up in the in the crib and he says, Mom, what's planned today? That was like one of his first little and he just wants to know a plan and a schedule. But he was right on time. I told the nurses 'cause they said we checked in on Sunday. Was he born on his due date? Yes. wow. Yeah. I so we checked in Sunday afternoon, Sunday evening, had labor all that Monday. And then they said this may go into Monday night. And I just looked at them and I said, No, he's gonna be born right in time for happy hour. And they were like, What? And I was like, I just feel like he's gonna be born right in time right on time for happy hour. And sure enough, he's born at 4 30. my gosh. I love that. You know, and the other thing that's really remarkable that says so much about his personality is before laughing, I heard the a bunch of nurses gasp and say, This baby is born with his eyes open. And so He was born with his eyes open. They lay him on me and he immediately starts holding up his head, like looking around. And I'm like, Hey, hey, hey. You just been here three minutes. Like, take a take a moment. Take a minute. It's okay. And but that's how he approaches the world, just so curious, eyes eyes wide open, looking around. He wants to know I mean, everything. He has just been this curious, wonderful soul. So cool. I say on this podcast so often that babies are born, like the way that they're born is often so reflective of their personalities. Yes. And he is, I feel like the perfect example of it. He's so like right on time, four thirty, ready for a good time, for having I've never been curious. Yes. Yes. And cool. Just as just a delight. So when you checked in, you were in labor, were you how did they define labor for you? Was it having contractions? Were you dilated? I was dilated. I was having contractions, but I thought it was just waves of nausea. Right. I didn't realize it was contractions because I had never done it before. And, you know, somebody had said, Well, it kind of feels like period cramps. for me that wasn't accurate. Same. so again, I just I didn't know because I had just felt so poorly and the last two weeks they had put me on bed rest. And so, you know, there was just a lot that was off. I think being on bed rest, you know, I really because prior to that I did try to walk. I did yoga because again, I read a lot of research that said, you know, a mom who stays in motion labor will be easier. And then also to adding that extra oxygen helps to grow their brain. So on the days I didn't feel like walking for me, I was so nauseated. But also endorphins help with, you know, feelings of feeling poorly. And so on the days I didn't feel like moving my body for me, I was like, okay, I'm gonna put oxygen in the tank. For my son's brain. Like that's what I'm well, that's what motivated myself. Like, I'm gonna grow his brain today. Yeah. And so I would get up and you know, I was and I would never like set a big goal. I would just say, ten minutes. All you have to do is ten minutes ran. And of course I would do longer than that usually. But even if I didn't do longer than that, ten minutes was was good. And it moved my body. But then when you shift that to I was on bed rest for two weeks and Just everything was swollen and it's just I don't know. I think I I don't have anything to compare it to because I had the one and only pregnancy. But I had just felt like out of control with my body. I didn't know what was what. So I didn't know I was in labor. Yeah. It is. It is it's until they checked and they were like, Yeah, you're three centimeters dilated I was like, Well, look at there. And they're like and they're like, and you're having a traction. So I was like, I am? That's what that is. Right. Yeah. So then from there, how did it progress? Like were you able to avoid Pitocin? So this is an interesting story too. So they wanted to start moving it along faster and they said we want to do a small amount of Pitocin. It was in the middle of the night. Did they give you reason why? I don't really remember. I think they were just worried because of his size, and because we were like right up at the due date. And me being a geriatric pregnancy. So I think they were just it was a lot of just worry, right? Medical checkboxes, yeah. Yes. And so I told the and and it was in the middle of the night, I remember that. And so my doctor was not available. She wouldn't be there until, you know, the morning. And so I said, Well, I want you to know that my body really Packs punch. Like I'm a one drink kind of girl. I can't really do a lot of cold medicine. I actually take a half dose when I have a cold. My friend is the same way and she calls herself a super taster. She's like, I'm a medicine drug super taster. Yeah. Like give me the lowest dose of whatever it is. Correct. And so they they s they said, Okay, all right. And so they started it, and pretty immediately my blood pressure started dropping, his started dropping, all of a sudden you know, alarm bells are going off literally. They're slapping oxygen on my face. And all I remember doing and my ha my husband, you know, was you know, stark white, as white as the you know, and I just remember looking at him going, I'm gonna be okay. And I said to the nurses, I said, I told y'all and they immediately turned it off. And so after that and I don't even know it was It felt like s it felt so quick. So maybe it was ninety seconds, maybe it was five minutes worth. I don't really know. But we didn't have it. They were like and so I think if an hour or so after that, so maybe it was early in the morning, my doctor did come in and she asked me about that and she said, Y'all don't give her any more of that. Yeah. so yeah, so that was my experience with potos and my body just didn't like it. But I don't know that it was the medicine in any kind of way. It's just I think knowing and advocating for myself really helped that I at the time when all the alarm bells go started going off, I didn't panic. Mm-hmm. Because I intuitively suspected this what's gonna happen, guys. This my body is not going to have a nice reaction to this. I didn't know what it would be. Mm-hmm. yeah, so it was less it was less scary than it could have been because Yes. But I think like knowing your body, advocating for yourself. Because I had a whole conversation with them before I said, Okay, put it in the drip. Right. Or however they do it. Right. Yeah, the drip. But so that they knew to be that, you know, this is a person who's overly sensitive to medicine and start slow. Yeah. And it's so funny, even as I've gotten older, I've now gotten into the age where, you a colonoscopy is necessary in order to to test and so I told the anesthesiologist before they put me under to do that routine test. I was like, you need to watch me, like just a little bit. And he was like, he was like, Okay, this is good to know, you know? And so I think, you know, just a testament to advocate knowing your body well and advocating for yourself. And so important. Yeah. And I think in both of those instances, whether it was my my recent colonoscopy or having my son, that they seemed appreciative of it. Yeah. You know, and I'm not one to be to be scared of speaking up, but if anybody is, you should speak up. Yes. Like if ever there's a time to speak up and tell them how your body reacts, like now is the time to do it. Yeah. Well, we talk a lot on this podcast about continuity of care and the lack of continuity of care and our modern medical system. And I'm not here to criticize that. I think a lot of it is just a function of how busy nurses and doctors are. Yeah. and so that's why it is so important to advocate for yourself, to understand your medical history as much as you can, to speak up about it, because they they don't know you from Joe Schmo, unfortunately. Yeah. And even I mean, even in that time frame, there's so many people coming and going. Yeah. When you're in labor. Like shift changes. Correct. And You think you get to know somebody, but then there's a point in time where you're like, Have I seen you before? Have I not? Just tell them again if you're not sure. Yeah. You know, and I think just reminding them because at the end of the day, your birth, your delivery is your only experience. You have to keep in mind they're managing 20 others down the hall, or however many others down the hall. And so yours is special, but they're also human and they are they are managing nineteen other specials too at the same time and so reminding them is not a bad thing. I completely agree. You're probably not gonna offend someone. And if you are they need to probably get a new job. Correct. Correct. I mean they want you to have a good experience too. I truly believe that that anybody who goes into this line of work is not looking to be malicious or have ill intent, that they want you to have a good experience. So, you know, and there's definitely a way to speak up that's kind and respectful and way to not do that. Yes. Definitely. Yeah. And I will say this is where I think Doula's provides such a wonderful excellent service. I don't know how familiar you are. Yeah. But I just I looked into having one. You did? Okay. Yeah. I did, and at the end of the day, and I I talked with a few people you know, I think their role of advocating and kind of stepping in and, you know, letting your spouse, your mom, whoever is your person in the room with you, just really be present for you. I think they do such a service. but ultimately I said, I'm pretty mouthy. So and and my my husband, you know, I felt very confident that he would speak up and advocate too. And so again, just intuitively I said, you know, I think I think we can handle this. And again though, I didn't have a huge extensive plan either that really needed to be executed. Like I was very okay with going in the moment with what needed to be done and trusting them too. So, you know, that's why I decided not to. Yeah. So after the Petosin incident, how did things go? So I only pushed for 45 minutes. Amazing. So you After Pentosin, you got to ten centimeters pretty quickly? Yes. Well, over a couple of hours. Okay. and when did you get to the girl? gosh. Probably he was born at 4 30, so probably nine or ten in the morning that morning. because knowing he was gonna be my one and only, I wanted to experience labor. I wanted to have that very human experience. I wanted I wanted the pain. I wanted the I wanted to feel what it was like to bring life into the world because I think, you know, I'm a creative soul stuck in an attorney's body. And if you can't feel all the emotions and all the beautiful rainbow that is the human experience, like what are we doing? And so, but again, I left it open to I could tap out at any point in time and say, I want the medicine. and so At some point in time I was like, okay, and I'm done. Like I just want whatever relief we can get. And so they came in, they did that. and then and then, you know, I think I napped a little bit. I was very hungry. I do remember that. I remember being very, very hungry because at some point in time the nausea passed. And so I was like, I really want to eat, but then of course you can't. Yeah. And so, Yeah, so I it there's a gap in time. Like I don't know if I napped. I know I talked to some girlfriends on the phone. and 'cause once the epidural came, it was it was fine. I did have a little nerves about that, but the needle aspect of it or Yeah, so the v like the idea of it was sort of intimidating to me. Again, things that really intimidate me. Things with the body and things with cars, because I'm so inept when it comes to that stuff. And so when you talk about a plan, one reason I didn't plan a lot is it's it's a blessing and a curse. it makes me a really, really good attorney. I can research and dwiddle down and stay up till two in the morning and needle it, needle it, needle it, needle it. I guess pun intended talking about an amateur. but I knew I couldn't let myself go down that road when it comes to medical care and birth, or I would have been a basket case. Right. There would have been no right answer. No, there would and I never would have stopped researching and I never would have had peace about it. And again, like I went into this, I want it to be peaceful, I want his birth to be happy. and so again, knowing yourself. I knew myself that if I ever went down the road of Dr. Google, there would be no end. Yeah. And it wouldn't be healthy for me to stay up till 3 a.m. every night in a row when I should be getting sleep to grow a healthy baby. Yep. So, so I knew enough about the epidural to be a little scared, but not so much that I was against it or I had a lot of fear. So we did that and then we had a chunk of time and then It was time to push. And again, I really attribute this to walking, yoga, continuing to move much of I I push for forty five minutes, which I now know is for your first child is pretty short. Pretty good, pretty short. Yeah. Yeah. But there was a point in time because instead of being kind of up and down, he had kind of stubborn, and doing things his own way. He had kind of so we he knows this story. We joke around that he ran out of womb. but he had kind of turned himself kind of catty corner. Okay. that's such a southern phrase. Diagonally. Yes, diagonally. And so every time I pushed, they realized that was going on. And so I would push, my OBGYN held his head steady and the nurses would twist my hips to get him to kind of straighten up. which again very skilled doctors, very skilled nurses to do that. I didn't really appreciate until I think two or three days later when we were home and I looked in the mirror and I had these bruises on my hips. Really? That like the twisting that had gone on where they had like physically kind of maneuvered me. probably good that you had an epiterol. Yes. Absolutely. but so there was a point in time that They said, you know, we're gonna push for a little bit longer, but because of his size, if this doesn't work, we're gonna go ahead and, you know, get you prepped for a C section. They told me that. And I again I said, Okay, whatever you think is best. But also too, my husband said that he saw something click in my eyes where I was like, no, no, no, no, no. We have not come this far to also do that. Yeah. And so I think I pushed two more times after that. And then This baby has his eyes open and here he is and I'm laughing and Yeah. When they told you that you might have to have a C section, prior to that like moment where it was kind of yay or nay, did you have any feelings or perceptions about C section and whether or not you wanted to have one? So my mom had had me and my brother and my sister via a C section. And so I was used to what they used to do in the eighties where it was a scar from like your sternum all the way down to your pelvic bone. And so, but I'd had girlfriends who had had a lot of babies before me. Almost every one of my girlfriends had had children before me. Yeah. And so I knew that was not the way it was done anymore. and at the end of the day, again, if that was the way he came into the world, okay, right. You know, I just I I wanted a healthy baby and I trusted the team that we had hired to do their job. Yeah. And and maybe it's easier it was a little easier for me to do that because being a professional, you know, people have to implicitly give me trust. but whether it's doctors, accountants, professors, whatever, you know, there's I think we all come to points in our life where You know, the Bible says seek wise counsel where you reach the end of yourself and you have to say, you know, I don't know everything. I am not the expert here. And so I I need to get out of the driver's seat and get in the passenger seat and trust the people, trust that I've hired good people and then trust those people to do their job. And really, you know, even in work environments, when you're working with teams, you have to trust the people you work with because Nobody wants to be micromanaged. Nobody's gonna do their best work under that. And so I really like gave that to them. Y'all handle it. If you need think I need a C section, okay. And so that was because that had been my mom's experience. I don't think I was I wasn't scared. I didn't love the idea of it because I knew with some girlfriends in the recovery. But again, if that's what needed to happen, that's what needed to happen. Yeah. did you have any sort of physical recovery in terms of tears or just any sort of just a yeah, just a small one. I mean, the worst thing. This is a Robbels podcast. W was the hemorrhoids afterwards? yeah. We had we talked about it all. Yeah. And so so that was you know, but in that moment, I was just so happy he was he was there. I did have concerns about that, but again, that's so out of everybody's control. If it happens, it happens. and so yeah, it did. they stitched me up and a small one and That was kind of it. I just remember being hungry. Mm-hmm. And this is a funny story. So since he was born at four thirty, they of course brought dinner around at five. And that day the hospital was serving lasagna. No, no, no, no, no. So they bring in the lasagna. I'm still in the labor and delivery room. And I see it. And then kind of out of the like in the far distance is my Placenta sitting in in a container. no. And I was like, I can't eat lasagna. No. And I've never been able to eat red meat lasagna since. god. I have there's often times I've thought about ordering it and I loved lasagna beforehand. But I have it has complete and one day maybe I will I will order it again. But and there have been times where I'm like, you know, when I've been at a restaurant should I order this? And because I loved it, but it completely turned me off on that. I will eat like a a chicken lasagna with like white sauce and vegetables. That's so funny. But yeah, I was like, no, absolutely not. and so we eventually get to the recovery room and I tell my dad, Dad, I'm starving. And he said, What do you want? And I said, I don't care where you go, it can be Subway, it can be Jersey Mike's, it can be Jimmy Johns, but I want the biggest Turkey sandwich with cheese and avocado that you can find. Yep. And so whatever the size is that Jimmy Johns makes is like the biggest sandwich. He brought that. And to this day, we call that the the baby in my son's name, we'll call him E on this show, the baby E sandwich. it was the best sandwich of my entire life. I had the exact same meal after my second son was burned. Jimmy John's turkey, cheese, avocado. Yes. Yes. And it was it was the best sandwich I have ever had in my entire life. Cause I was so hungry. Cause by that point in time, by the time they got me to to our room, it had been well, well, well over twenty four hours since I'd had anything. That's brutal. You know, and your body has just been through so much. Basically run a marathon with no fuel. Right, exactly. And so I I just know when I really want some comfort food because it's tied to such a happy memory, that's that's what I'm ordering. is Jimmy John's turkey, cheese, avocado. 'Cause it's just it's so it's tied to such a happy memory. Who doesn't love a good sandwich? Yeah. Jimmy John Johns does an excellent job, but n none has quite lived up to though the one I had that night. I know. That first meal post baby is like nectar of the gods. There's something about it. Yes. And I didn't even really think about it. And I, again, to a lot of people have a plan and what they want. And I just was like, I just want a big ass sandwich. I didn't care where it came I didn't care where it came from. that's amazing. it sounds like it was just really straightforward and a beautiful day. Yeah, it really was. Like as as as kind of angsty, I feel like the nine months growing him was because I did feel like a science experiment because I had the extra doctor's appointments with the high risk doctors and then I had low amniotic fluid and then they put me on bed rest because even though I didn't I didn't I had to do the pre-clampsia test. I didn't I wasn't in that range, but I was kind of close to it. So they were like, okay, we're gonna put you on b bed rest anyways. You're gonna have to check check your blood pressure, checking my blood sugar five times a day. It was just and then just being sick for nine months, I was just pleasantly surprised that labor and delivery was nothing compared to that. I was like, I can do labor and delivery all day, every day. Like that's fine. It's the nine months leading up to it that no no thank you. No thank you. No thank you. Well, so speaking of, you've mentioned several times that you had a feeling your son would probably be your only. Yeah. Do you mind speaking a little bit to that? Yeah. So Again, I was thirty six, so there's a lot of factors that go into, you know, the timing of having a second child. I knew I didn't want Irish twins for sure. But then I had to do some math that if we were gonna have a second child, okay, I'd be thirty eight, thirty nine, risk goes up. I work in a very demanding career and I wanted to be a great mom, regardless of whether I had one or twenty. I think that's what we all want, right? Right. And so I really, being type A, sat with like, what is my capacity? Mm-hmm. And what kind of life do I want to give my children? And so a lot of factors went into it. my age, my husband's age, you know, really immediately, Even in the labor and delivery room, they're like, he's cute. You should do this again. I was like, God. I don't know. Yeah. And that's exactly what I said. I was like, excuse me, my placenta is still sitting in a jar over there. I don't think so. We're not having this conversation. But again, I wasn't sure I'd gotten the nurturing gene. And it was still like this big question mark can I actually do this? Because I am the person who made all A's in grade school. graduated with honors from law school. I do not do things halfway. Nonchalant is not in my vocabulary. If we're doing it, we're doing it excellently. We're we are aiming for the top. We are aiming to get Oprah on the how do I do this podcast. Like we, you know, that's just how I how I am wired. And so I wanted to do motherhood excellently. For everybody listening, I don't do it excellently all day, every day. I I and I wake up every morning endeavoring to, but I surely fall short every day. Don't we all? yeah, but so I sat with that and then again when moms of our mother's generation didn't necessarily talk about it. I knew my mom suffered from postpartum depression after the stillborn baby, but I really didn't appreciate that she did every child subsequently. And so I had heard about the baby blues. I'd heard that postpartum depression might happen. Some of my girlfriends had kind of mentioned it. Hey, be on the lookout for this. But I honestly did not expect that. And postpartum depression anxiety came for me really, really bad. Then you layer on the fact that my body cannot produce enough milk for my son. So pretty much from day one, we did. And I didn't even know this was a thing. So I always like to tell people it it's not called tandem feeding. I'm but he always had breast milk and formula. Supplementing. Yes. Yes. From day one. It's great. And I didn't know that was an option. Yeah. Nobody ever talked about that. Everyone always makes it seem like it's one or the other. Right. Yeah. And so I I had to do that because I wasn't producing enough, whether it was my age, my thyroid Who knows? I was doing all the things. I was drinking Gatorade. I was eating the cookies. I was could have been his latch, not you know, supply demand wasn't there. So many factors. So many factors. So you add on, I feel like I'm failing producing, like what's wrong with my body. Right. postpartum depression anxiety. Didn't really know what was going on. Huge fear that the mothering gene skipped me. and it was just a really, really like terrible combination. Yeah. And we did not have any family nearby to help. So it was just my husband and I. And so there was that factor too, that we really had to just figure it out. And we were new to the Atlanta area. So I didn't have a core group of girlfriends. I didn't have other moms I could lean on. I didn't now I we've built that over course of the year now. I'm so lucky. I have such an amazing village of moms that I can call. But at the time I didn't. I was really alone. And so just all of that created a lot of postpartum anxiety and depression. And that I really like to tell people, it doesn't it may not look like what you think. I think what I thought it would be was Just crying, just kind of sad. Cause it was always described to me. My mom always said, Well, I had the baby blues. for me, it was just this gripping anxiety of I can't do this. What this is eighteen years of my life? And it was it was an inability to see that those newborn days, which are so precious, that it's not always like that. It's not always functioning on two hours of sleep. But I couldn't see that, even being a smart, intelligent woman. I couldn't see past like, I'm so exhausted. My body is so sore. I'm so alone. I'm so, what do you mean I have to do this for 18 years? But at the same time, this dichotomy of thrilled he was here, so in love. But why do I also feel this way? And then add on the guilt of that. And then add on social media of like cherish every moment. Right. You know, and so it was all these kind of like feeling almost, if you can imagine, I think about those gumby stretch toys. That's how I stretch Armstrong. Yeah. That's how I felt because there were all these competing interests. And all at the end of the day, the only thing my brain was telling me is, You're failing, you're terrible, you should never have done this. And so luckily I had a good girlfriend who lives who lives in Mississippi who she talked to me on the phone. I don't even remember the the crux of that conversation, but I do know that she called my husband and was like, You need she's not okay. Yeah. Like this is going on. You need to intervene. You need to tell her that she needs to speak up to her OBGYN. What a great friend. Yeah. Wow. So so amazing because and it was one of those things, you know, I am Such an optimist, joyful person. Every day I wake up, I'm like, all right, all what kind of magic are we gonna make? What are we gonna create? What are we gonna do? But I was so in a hole that I was I was, is this is this now who I am? And I didn't recognize myself. yes, and there was that was sad, and that was grief. And well, if I don't recognize myself, then how can I be a mom? my gosh, I'm I'm gonna go back to work in six weeks and practice law. Like, how am I gonna do that? I mean, it just so many things. And so there was a point in time where I thought, Am I ever going to feel quote unquote normal again? And that was so terrifying. Luckily, friend called, talked to the OBGYN. I think she put me on a small dose of Zoloft. That helped, you know, just getting used to being a new mom, which was again incredibly difficult because my mom by that point in time was not physically where she could really help a lot. I did have two girlfriends come from out of state to help, but you know, they had to go home to their families. Right. And I didn't have a village here. But, you know, we figured it out. I got through it. But when I sat down and said, okay, do we want to have another one? I knew we had a window genetically where we met with a geneticist to say, okay, does this make sense? You know, and they gave us the risk, the numbers and we looked at that. And then how do I want to be a mother? How do I want to be present? and then you know, I know a lot of people who just because they have a sibling doesn't mean that's happy for them. Yeah. And so I was like, well, having a sibling doesn't guarantee happiness or closeness or anything like that. So the whole argument of, well, he'll be alone, well, he still might I mean, right. we are of the age now where unfortunately our parents are passing and so We see that it's usually one sibling that does all the things. Yeah. And the others are absent for whatever reason. And this is not a judgment, but they they are alone. And so I sat with that and I was like, all right, well, let's chuck That reason doesn't make good sense to me. Yeah. But then a huge factor was, okay, so I'm predisposed to postpartum depression anxiety. I knew at that point in time it would more than likely happen again. And he was a newborn. But if I had a second child, he would be a two or three year old. And I just could not bear the thought of him seeing me like that. Yeah. And and what if I didn't get out of it that time, the second time around? Like a lot of fear about that. so we just sat on it and we said, no, I don't think so. And so and then we just we got into a groove, and I remember there was one time about three or four years old when he was in preschool and he came home and said, Mommy, such and such is having a brother or sister. And I just kinda said to him, I said, Do you want a brother or sister? And he was playing with blogs or something. He was super young. And he says, No, we're good. And I was like, We are good. And so, he he now loves being an only child, in second grade. He, they were learning about family trees and learning about aunts and uncles and siblings and the teacher called me and she said, I just have to tell you, he loves being an only child. She said, Because the conversation started talking about siblings and he's in the class and he doesn't have any. And somebody said, that's sad. And he said, It is not sad. Let me tell you why. Yeah. I have my mom and dad's full attention. I have a playroom that is all mine. You know, and he goes through this whole list and she said it was so lovely because by the end of the discussion he convinced half the class they didn't want their siblings. You know, and even now he last week your lawyer. Yeah, but last week, he said, Mom, you know that's that line in the life of a showgirl song where she says, Welcome to my magnificent life, it's all mine. He said, I wonder if that's how my friends feel when they come to my house. And I was like, You are such a character. I was like my god, I love him. Yeah, maybe. But it I think too, because then so then you have the other concern. I'm gonna have the weird only child, right? So we do live in a neighborhood that's great. He has four sisters that live next door, a set of four sisters. So he's constantly like playing and going back and forth. So he definitely gets like the sibling vibes with a lot of good friends, and all of his friends have siblings. So it's great that we have a whole village that they will call up and say, Hey, can E come with us to the library or whatever? And he just folds into their group. And he's kind of everybody's brother, truly. Yeah. so it's worked out well. But there were there were a lot of factors, my age and really the postpartum thing being being the biggest. When you talk a lot about different forms of grief on your podcast, was there ever a time where you grieved for Yeah. I yeah. Decision to not have another child. Yeah. sometimes even now, just in small ways. because for every first I have with him, it's my last two. gosh, you're gonna me cry. Yeah. I you know, and I'm I'm keenly aware of that and I'm so sentimental about all of his things. I'm sentimental about his every year that he goes to a new grade, I am a wreck that day. and it's just, you know, I think there was this once I got through the postpartum depression and anxiety, I had a lot of guilt for the time I lost. and so, but it did make me really start savoring all of this littleness. And even now, you know, I constantly I will pause like this morning, as we record, The new encore came out for the the la the last four songs of Life of a Showgirl. And he's a huge Swifty too. And so he came running into the bedroom. He's like, Mom, it's time, it's time, it's time, it's time. And he jumps in the bed and he throws the covers over me. He's Have you listened to it yet? And I said, I have not. And I said, I was waiting on you. He's like, Okay, turn it on. And so he's lying beside me and he would look over at me and go, you know, and you know, and so Even this morning I was thinking, like I was looking at his little hands just holding the sheets and just like memorize like 'cause he still has the little dimples in his knuckles. And I know that time is fleeting because he's turning into a proper little boy because of his age and he's not stinky yet. He still has that sweet little voicemail. but just like that savering of like memorize how his hand looks and again, me being a creative and romanticizing most of my life truly, but just like like memori I just I'm all the time if you see me ever like truly quiet just looking at him, like I'm like memorize like this small thing. Memorize how his knuckles look. Memorize how his lashes. Yeah, like his how his lashes are sitting where he's looking at this thing he's writing. Like memorize how he's holding his pencil. And Savoring truly because every first is my last with him. And there is such grief with that, especially with the big milestones. But even even with the small ones. you know, when he started, he's now over half my size. And so I can't really pick him up safely and carry him anymore. Although sometimes I still tell him, like, stand on the ottoman, and so I like Pick him, you know, thanks to strength training and p p Pilates, you know, I can toad him for a little bit. everybody's like, You're you're gonna hurt your back. I'm like, this is how I'm back. It'll be worth it. Right. but just I was this the last time I'm gonna pick him up. gosh, I know. Because he he will become larger than me at some point in time. And, you know, just memorizing how the top of his head looks, because I won't always get to see it. golly. I know. I know. And so, yeah, there's there's grief there. Yeah. But I think it makes me also as somebody who is such go, go, go. I s I I read something, he was just such a cozy, snuggly baby and he is still such a cozy kid. Like if he gets if we're having a movie like afternoon and he gets on like like he still wants he wants that touch. He wants like if he's sitting beside me, there's a foot on me, there's a hand on me. I hope my firstborn is yeah. I hope that never changes. He's such a Velcro baby. I know, I love it. And so, you know, and there's a question of we're getting to that age where is this gonna stop? But but I'm still like, you know, soaking it all in, So I read something that said that God gives the babies that need the most touch, the most holding to the moms that need to slow down the most. And that was definitely the case with me because I am a go go go person and I am multitasking. You know, there I'm never only doing one thing. Yeah. But with him, I've been forced to really be intentional with my time in a way I've never been my entire life. And wanting to be intentional, wanting to savor all those little details and the cuddles and mom come stop and play. And when I'm tempted to say, Okay, let me do this one thing or let me do whatever. No, like this is it. This is it for me. There's nothing more important. No, right. And I think Having the one again I don't wanna make him the weird only child but or or you know have some kind of like abnormal complex, but you know, stopping and slowing down and focusing on him has been just a joy for me because there's nothing else in my life where I'm just doing one thing. But when I'm with him, he's brought such intentionality to my life that that's it. That resonates so strongly with me. my firstborn is like that too. Like I always joke, he would crawl back inside my body. yeah, absolutely. My son would absolutely do that. Yep. and it's hard and I I have guilt, you know, we can as moms we can guilt ourselves about anything. Absolutely. We can get in a guilt spiral real quick. But I sometimes have guilt because I have another child. Like, am I not savouring every moment with him that I could Does he still feel as loved as he did before I had his brother? And so everything you're saying absolutely resonates with me. I think either way we're going to have guilt. Yeah. If you have one, five, ten, fifteen. I think we're gonna sit. I think it's human nature to say what wulda, coulda, shoulda. Mm-hmm. but I think also like there's such beauty in that because yeah, you could sit around and bemoan, well, why don't I have another one? Or or you could say, okay, well, I have this one, or I have two, or I have three, or whatever that is. Like what can I do in this moment? Or if you're listening and you're wanting to have a child and that hasn't happened for you yet. Okay. How can you how can you mother the children that are in your life? Yeah. How can you show up and be, you know, a like mothering comes from so many places. my dog who I had for 18 years recently passed away. And I joked that she was like a big sister and truly mothered him. Yeah. Even though she was a dog. Yeah. And I think if you want to give that mothering energy, you can do it in the workplace in a non creepy way, of course. Yeah. mentor mentoring way. Right. And so there's such an opportunity to do that. mothering energy isn't just Your friends' kids. Yeah, isn't just reserved for people who have given birth. Yes. As something I've really come to appreciate, especially after losing my mom, and I crave that mothering energy. that you can find it in other places. And people are willing to like mirror that back to you. Yeah. If you ask for it. That's so beautiful. I also really appreciate your perspective on choosing not to have another child. Because I joke all the time now that. It feels like, at least in Atlanta in my bubble, three is the new two. absolutely. It is crazy. Like there's so many people are having three kids. And I, I can't remember if I've I've probably shared this with you on your podcast, but I I have a half brother who's much, much older than me. And so I was my mom's only child. Yep. And I grew up in the house as the only child because he was gone. Right. And so if that gives you any sort of confidence that he'll be okay. I mean, I'm pretty weird. But mean we all are. Yes, we all are. If you're not, that's that's boring. But I really appreciate you being honest about like the the choice to to only have another because like I feel the pressure all the time having two to have three. And so often people say, just do it, you'll be fine. But the reality is, the truth is, I don't know if I have the capacity. Yeah. And I think sometimes it's it's hard to say that. I really had to sit with what did I want not just my life but his life to look like? And in twenty twenty six, you know, things are expensive. Yeah. You know, do I want him to be able to ha have that free internship? if he's wildly talented in an area. Guess what? We can probably like flip the bills for that. But if we had two, who knows? Right. You know, and so there were just it was very I don't wanna say non emotional, but I think being an attorney, like it really sort of came down to a pro-con list and and people may h hear that and absolutely cringe. No. But as humans, when our emotion when we're in our emotional brain, it's proven it's science. I'm no different. You're no different. We don't make good decisions. Yeah. When the emotion's kicking in and logic drugs. Right. And logic is turned off. So Did I get emotional at times and say, I wish we were having a second or I wish she had a I wish she had a sibling, blah, blah, blah. I still do. It's not happening now. But but when I was in a space to logically think about it, the answer just always came back to, we're good. Yeah. We're good. and you know, I remember there were some people who really challenged me. Maybe even judged. Yes, absolutely. And well, even now, people are like, well, you just have the one. And I'm like, I s I still have one. Yeah. And I still have to feed him and like put him to bed. Like make sure he turns out okay a human. Correct. Like I he still needs to become a functioning human. And I mean, they don't they come in the world knowing nothing. Right. It's not easy. It's different. the other thing that I considered on the list was we didn't have any family help nearby. Yes. That was a huge factor. Yes. And so what did it look like to hire a nanny? And even at the time, I think two or three years in, I'd sort of kind of s found more of a village, but My son wasn't in school yet. And so that's really when you start meeting other moms. And so I still really didn't have that extra support. Mm-hmm. And so that was a huge consideration too. Definitely on the top five list. And you were working full time. Yeah. Like in a very demanding position. Yes. And so, The big things, the postpartum, no help. Yeah. then looking at resources and and saying, okay, well, I think I think we're good with one. Yeah. and and that was that was the decision. Well, I think it's such a valuable perspective. And I hope that if there is a young mom out there listening that has one And is thinking about not having another, you hear this podcast and totally fine. You know that that's totally fine. It's totally fine. It's not weird. It's not anything to be feel any way about. It's your choice. No. and you know, I will say that do I occasionally still feel a little grief that he doesn't have a sibling? Yes, but sitting here, I'm a few months away from turning forty seven. he's kind of in the middle of grade school and I have moms who have littles and this, that, and the other, and they're, you know, still on the heat of potty training and stuff. And I was like, it's just like a like a like a breathing we can do now. Because he's getting a little independence. He can pack his backpack. He needs to learn how to pack his backpack. He done do it every time. Mom still has to check. But you know, there's there's this little bit of freedom that We are both getting, which is really beautiful. And he has a very, very responsible kid. So there's also, you know, different opportunities we can do because he is an only. Yeah. that we maybe wouldn't have the means or the way to do because if there were multiple, because we wouldn't want to treat any of the children differently. And so, yeah. One one and done is totally fine. I love it. I love it. And it's still it's still beautiful. And if that's how your family is, then you know, it t anybody can ask my son. He loves he loves being an only child. He tr he truly does. I mean, and he loves going to his friends that have siblings, but he always comes home and he's like, I am so glad. It's just me. I think my son would gladly send his little brother back and be an only child. Yeah. So Yeah, and it's so hard even with one. Everybody, you know, we're all in the same boat, but all of our boats are different. Right. Everyone has different resources, whether it's financial, time and energy, f family yeah, family in town. Like it's all different. It's all unique and every situation is unique. Yeah. And I think too, you know, I love my friends who have multiple kids. I love Like I love having all the kids at my house. There was one year I did an Easter egg hunt for his entire grade school class and we did the siblings and it was pure pandemonium in the house. And I love having all the children over. Yeah. I also love when they all go home. That's a really, really good perspective. Long answer. No, it's It's such a valuable conversation. I think someone out there will hear it and and think like this really resonates with me. Yeah. I hate to use the word permission, but maybe it'll give someone out there permission to to to voice what they've been wondering. Yeah. Well, I always like to bring the conversation back to birth before we wrap up. And I always ask my guests to describe birth in three words, just whatever comes to mind. Three words. First I would have to say is magical. because I really do feel if ever there was a time in my life where I was the veil between on earth as it is in heaven was thin, it was those hours. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like it felt so and I guess my second word would be holy. And some people who are sh who are who are strict dogmas and religion are probably like, she's married magical and holy together, but it was such a holy experience to be able to step into that space of things women have done forever. And to know that for me there was almost this presence of all the feminine power and mysticism in the room at the same time. And it's really hard to describe, but I remember the Easter right after he was born and hearing hearing the crucifixion story for the first time and considering Mary. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jesus' mom. Mm-hmm. And what that must have been like for her. And or even the Christmas story right after he was born, because he was born in June. and just relating to the Christmas story in a way I had never considered. And so magical holy joining with all these other amazing women who have also done this and brought forth life. And then I think joyful too. I mean my laughing. it was a joyful experience. And that intentionality I brought into the room about the playlist. It has carried forward. He is such a joyful soul, truly. if I had one word to describe him, probably I don't know, it would be a tie between joyful and curious. But magical, holy, and joyful. I love that. Yeah. It's interesting. Several women have described that phenomenon you mentioned of like feeling so connected to all the women that came before us in that moment of birth. And I'm so curious. Like it was I don't know, it's just it feels like there's something there. Like there's so something there. And it's it's hard to describe, but it was almost like a chorus. It felt like a chorus or a union or like I felt so held and cared for. In a way that I had never truly experienced before or since. That's why I said, I don't wanna do the nine months, I'll do labor all day, every day. Because to step into that space of just Whether you call it God, mysticism, holy, mother earth, universe, whatever, there was something otherworldly there and the veil between me and the divine was the thinnest it had ever been. And I imagine that when it's when it's my time to leave this earth, that will be the other time. I I feel that. Yeah. Like it was just the veil was thin. Yeah. I've been targeted recently, I'm sure because of what I do, with this this kind of audio that's going around that talks about how it's a hospice nurse and she says that the n the person that people always ask for when they're dying, it's not their spouse, it's not their children even, it's their mother. Yeah. And there's just something so powerful in that. Yeah. And I I think, you know, my son and I have said this since he was really little is my heart and your heart are very, very old friends. When you told me that, I like, Yeah, and it it's it was like meeting somebody I had always knew I wanted to meet. Yeah. And I was so happy to meet him. I was so happy to bring him into this world and every day is such an adventure with him. Being his mom, I tell him every night at bedtime, being your mom is my favorite favorite. and it is, it's my favorite favorite. It's so beautiful. Yeah. well, on that note, Ryanne. Thank you so much for being here. I loved talking with you. I think so many people will appreciate your perspective and your thoughts on it all, especially the choice to have one child. It's just so unique and impactful. And so thank you for sharing all of that. Well, thank you for having me and creating the space to talk about birth stories. I love hearing people's birth stories. so the idea for this, I was like, yes, that's awesome. so it's it's such a special space you've created. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Well you've been listening to the Arrivals podcast. Until next time.