Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Beautiful Woman Missing After Night Out With Friends: Where is Gretchen?

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Beautiful Woman Missing After Night Out With Friends: Where is Gretchen? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. A gorgeous twenty seven year
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Speaker 1: old girl has seemingly vanished into thin air. Where is Gretchen?
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Speaker 1: I mean it, see Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank
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Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation and
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Speaker 1: series XM one eleven. Let's just kick it off with
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Speaker 1: a tipline which is three zero four four two four
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Speaker 1: one zero seven two repeat three zero four four two
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Speaker 1: four one zero seven two. There is a very strong
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Speaker 1: chance we can help bring Gretchen home alive. First of all,
0:54
Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at wc h S.
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Speaker 1: The Parkersburg Police Department is asking for help in finding
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Speaker 1: twenty seven year old Gretchen Fleming of Vienna. Detectives say
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Speaker 1: she was last seeing the night of December third and fourth,
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Speaker 1: but relatives didn't realize she was gone quickly and did
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Speaker 1: not report it until this week. Police located her purse
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Speaker 1: and phone, amping up concern. Detectives have worked around the
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Speaker 1: clock since then to cultivate information, and the public has
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Speaker 1: really stepped up in regard to tips, and even if
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Speaker 1: it wasn't from that night, giving us information they thought
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Speaker 1: was pertinent, and a combination of that has really expedited
1:31
Speaker 1: the investigation to the point we were able to obtain
1:35
Speaker 1: some search warrants with me and All Star panel to
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Speaker 1: make sense of what we know right now. But first,
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Speaker 1: before I induced to you our panel, I'm want to
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Speaker 1: go to a special guest joining us. It's Gretchen's father,
1:48
Speaker 1: David Fleming. Mister Fleming, Thank you for being with us,
1:52
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. Mister Fleming. I'm going to
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Speaker 1: go into all the details surrounding her disappearance as we
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Speaker 1: know them from police reports, but I'm going to hear
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Speaker 1: from your family's point of view. When did you realize
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Speaker 1: Gretchen was gone? Probably that Sunday after she came up
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Speaker 1: missing the following week. She was staying mother's house, and
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Speaker 1: she had been and you had to go out and
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Speaker 1: stay with friends and you know, come back every few
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Speaker 1: days and get her clothes and get to work. And
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Speaker 1: she was just gone a little longer than norm and
2:24
Speaker 1: that's when we started looking for So she was basing herself.
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Speaker 1: Did you say her mother's home or her brother's Now
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Speaker 1: she was staying at my grand at her grandmother's house,
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Speaker 1: my grandmother. I missed that for Syllabel. So she's base
2:37
Speaker 1: of operations, and you know the reality is that with
2:42
Speaker 1: let me go to Cheryl McCollum joining me, the founder
2:45
Speaker 1: and director of the Coalcase Research Institute, currently in law enforcement.
2:50
Speaker 1: You can find her at Coalcase Crimes dot org. Cheryl.
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Speaker 1: That's the way millennials are and the next generation as well.
2:57
Speaker 1: They don't live under the same rules that we thought
3:01
Speaker 1: we were supposed to live under. Like, okay, you graduate
3:04
Speaker 1: from college, and then you get a job, and then
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Speaker 1: you get an apartment. As soon as you get a
3:09
Speaker 1: down payment, you put down a house because that's the
3:11
Speaker 1: best thing to do financially. Oh no, no, no, no no.
3:15
Speaker 1: In fact, I just read about a knee member I
3:18
Speaker 1: think he said the house representative says, yeah, I'm gonna
3:21
Speaker 1: head to DC and sofa couch surf for a few days,
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Speaker 1: you know, and just see how it unfolds. Absolutely, this
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Speaker 1: is not unusual to be basically living at grandma's house
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Speaker 1: because of the location. And then you stay with this
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Speaker 1: friend girl and that friend girl and this one and that,
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Speaker 1: and you come back, have dinner, stay a few days,
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Speaker 1: and then off you go. It's just it's very nomadic.
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Speaker 1: Let me say, absolutely, it's pretty freeing and kind of adventurous.
3:48
Speaker 1: I wish somebody told me I didn't have to sign
3:50
Speaker 1: a lease. Okay, go here to that one bedroom studio
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Speaker 1: apartment I lived in for so long. But this is
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Speaker 1: not unusual. But I think it adds to the dilemma
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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, because we can't id Okay, this is the
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Speaker 1: day she didn't come home to Grandma's. See what I mean,
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Speaker 1: I can't start my crimeline. Well, here's what happens. And
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Speaker 1: we know this. Even though this was a usual type
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Speaker 1: of lifestyle for her, there is a pattern and she
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Speaker 1: usually has not gone this long, and she certainly is not,
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Speaker 1: you know, avoiding to be in contact with her family.
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Speaker 1: And what's really important here, Nancy, and this will go
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Speaker 1: to your timeline. Is that cell phone. She's not with
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Speaker 1: it and she's not owner. You're absolutely correct. Back to
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Speaker 1: David Fleming, this is Gretchen's dad joining us. David. I
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Speaker 1: know that your whole family is twisted up so badly
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Speaker 1: wanting her to come home. But I appreciate you telling
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Speaker 1: us very calmly the sequence of events. Now tell me
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Speaker 1: again when you first realize Gretchen was know where you
5:00
Speaker 1: thought she would be. That is correct, My mother came
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Speaker 1: over to the house that Sunday and said, you know
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Speaker 1: this is abnormal. Its been longer than normal. And I said, well,
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Speaker 1: let's wait till Monday. You know, the weekend's over. Maybe
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Speaker 1: she'll be back Monday. And then she hasn't work, And
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Speaker 1: so that's when I started going out, following the trail
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Speaker 1: and looking for and I failed her purse at one
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Speaker 1: of the establishments that she was at. My heart just
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Speaker 1: sunk when you said that I found her purse. Go ahead,
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Speaker 1: mister Fleming and her purse. I found her debit card
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Speaker 1: and her cell phone. So then really triggered me that
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Speaker 1: I knew something was wrong. Hold on, write down everything
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Speaker 1: you're saying as quickly as I ken debit card, debit card,
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Speaker 1: and cell phone in purse. You found it and where
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Speaker 1: was it? It was at an establishment called the front Row,
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Speaker 1: where somebody from the last establishment basically returned it back
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Speaker 1: to where they where they begin. It is that like
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Speaker 1: a restaurant bar? Yeah, that is correct. I mean I
5:54
Speaker 1: have in my head something like, Jackie, do you agree
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Speaker 1: with this, something like I don't know, TGI Fridays or
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Speaker 1: Applebees or something like that. You can get food, you
6:02
Speaker 1: can sit at the bar if you want to. It's
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Speaker 1: just kind of a lot of people in and out.
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Speaker 1: Hold On, David Fleming with me. This is Gretchen's dad.
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Speaker 1: Mister Fleming, you said that the grandma, her grandmother, where
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Speaker 1: she was living. Now, hold on, was that also in Parkersburg,
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Speaker 1: West Virginia. Yeah, Okay, she lives in Parkersburg. In Vienna,
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Speaker 1: it's just like they're basically the same town. Vienna's if
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Speaker 1: the little suburb of Parkersburg. Okay, Vienna is in Wood County,
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Speaker 1: West Virginia. It's situated right there on the Ohio River,
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Speaker 1: which is an issue I want to go back to
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Speaker 1: you on Joe Scott Morgan's situated on the Ohio River
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Speaker 1: and it borders Parkersburg. Like mister Fleming is telling you,
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Speaker 1: it's kind of like all one and the same. The population, now,
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Speaker 1: this is what's important to in my mind, not only
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Speaker 1: the Ohio River, but the population is around ten seven
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Speaker 1: hundred and seventy six people, about eleven thousand people. That
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Speaker 1: is small compared to like a used metropolis. It's bigger
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Speaker 1: than when I grew where I grew up in rural
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Speaker 1: bib County, but it's still small compared to other places,
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Speaker 1: and that that touches on the way I would approach
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Speaker 1: this investigation. However, it's the third largest city by population
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Speaker 1: in the Parkersburg, Vienna Marietta metropolitan area. That's what I know,
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Speaker 1: and that population count is going to be very, very important.
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Speaker 1: So you said on that Sunday, what was the date?
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Speaker 1: The date in December of that Sunday, mister Fleming, December eleventh, Okay,
7:35
Speaker 1: that's when the grandma comes over and says, hey, Gretchen
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Speaker 1: hasn't been home. Now, how many days at that juncture
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Speaker 1: had she been not at home? Seven said, can you
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Speaker 1: get me the weekday of December four, twenty twenty two,
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Speaker 1: So the following should have been the previous Sunday. It
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Speaker 1: was December third, which would have been that Saturday. Gotcha,
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Speaker 1: I've got December four. Thank you for the correction, because
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Speaker 1: every day matters. Frankly, December three, Saturday, twenty twenty two.
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Speaker 1: That was the last time she was at grandma's. Okay, guys,
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Speaker 1: you were just hearing our friends at wc h S
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Speaker 1: TV now taking us to our friends at WTAP in
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Speaker 1: the dark, in the cold, just days before Christmas. The
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Speaker 1: community united with one goal in mind, bringing Gretchen Fleming home.
8:21
Speaker 1: I want everybody to look to your left, to look
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Speaker 1: to your right. This is what community is. Fleming turns
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Speaker 1: twenty eight On Christmas Eve. Pastor who spoke at the vigil,
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Speaker 1: prayed for a miracle that she's home for her birthday. God,
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Speaker 1: we're just thinking about so many ways and opportunities Father
8:39
Speaker 1: that you have shared with us, that miracles do happen.
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Speaker 1: Thank God, we are asking for a miracle now. Miracles
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Speaker 1: do happen, and that's what I'm praying for in this case,
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Speaker 1: mister Fleming, miracle to bring your daughter home twenty seven.
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Speaker 1: At the time she goes missing, she lives with Grandma
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Speaker 1: not too far away, and Grandma comes home to the
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Speaker 1: parents who says, Gretchen's been gone. She's been gone out
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Speaker 1: a week. That's highly, highly unusual. Now, I wanted to
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Speaker 1: hear what law enforcement has to say. Take us in
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Speaker 1: our friends at w TAP. Parkersburg Police Jeef Matthew Board
9:18
Speaker 1: also got up to speak. He assured the community that
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Speaker 1: law enforcement is working hard on the case. There are
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Speaker 1: so many behind the scenes in the Tomarker's Police Department
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Speaker 1: that have really just essentially not went home since we
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Speaker 1: found out. Gretchen wasn't home board Enngridge is anyone with
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Speaker 1: any information to reach out if you hear anything, if
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Speaker 1: you see anything, if you have a recollection, don't hesitate
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Speaker 1: to reach out to us, because what might seem minor
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Speaker 1: to you all might be what we need to help
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Speaker 1: bring Gretchen home. You're hearing everyone joining together to find
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Speaker 1: this girl. Won't you help us again the tip line
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Speaker 1: and there is still a chance we can help bring
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Speaker 1: her home alive? Three zero four four two four ten
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Speaker 1: seventy two three or four four two four ten seventy two.
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Speaker 1: Her father is here begging for your help. If you
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Speaker 1: can hear our voices, please go online, look at Gretchen,
10:22
Speaker 1: look at her. I want to see how this evening unfolds.
10:34
Speaker 1: A Fox Nation exclusive and international pop star stripped of
10:38
Speaker 1: human rights? How does that happen? Easier than you think.
10:41
Speaker 1: Join us for a deep dive into Britney Spears's conservatorship Trapped,
10:46
Speaker 1: streaming now on Fox Nation Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
11:00
Speaker 1: to Cheryl McCollum joining us, and Dave Matt Crime online
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Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter. First to you, Dave mac, Cheryl,
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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, Karen start Dale, Carson jump in and mister Fleming.
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Speaker 1: Of course you're going to have any correction that we
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Speaker 1: know from the outside looking in and reading the police reports.
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Speaker 1: Dave Mac, tell me what happened that evening? You know what?
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Speaker 1: Let me fast forward to the video. Is there any
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Speaker 1: surveillance of video at the front row or the bar
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Speaker 1: she went to the restaurant she went to afterwards? Yes,
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Speaker 1: I don't know if they have video at the front
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Speaker 1: row that hasn't been disclosed in what I've seen, dus bar,
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Speaker 1: you've got it from my Way. There is video at
11:42
Speaker 1: my Way. We actually do know who she left the
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Speaker 1: my Way bar with guys. Hold on my Way. My
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Speaker 1: Way is also a restaurant bar. They have family karaoke,
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Speaker 1: They have live news that you can playpool. They have
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Speaker 1: this Sunday brunch that people from miles around come to
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Speaker 1: the Sunday Brunch with their families. Now interesting, Dave Mac,
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Speaker 1: when was she observed at my Way? Now, remember her
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Speaker 1: dad is with us, David Fleming. He goes and collects
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Speaker 1: her pocketbook. At the first restaurant, she went to the
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Speaker 1: front row, which had her cell phone and her debit
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Speaker 1: card into in it. Wasn't that the first place she stopped? David? Yes, ma'am. Okay,
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Speaker 1: so he goes there. How did you know to go there,
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Speaker 1: mister Fleming because it's a popular place in town and
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Speaker 1: younger people, you know, hang out there, so I thought
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Speaker 1: the check there first. Okay, Well that was smart. I
12:42
Speaker 1: thought maybe they called you because they had this pocketbook.
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Speaker 1: But you went there all on your own. Yes, that's
12:48
Speaker 1: a picture of my daughter. And asked if anybody had
12:51
Speaker 1: seen her, and they said, the matter of fact, she
12:53
Speaker 1: left her, somebody returned her first year. Karen Start joining
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Speaker 1: me werenowned New York psychologists joining us out of Manhattan
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Speaker 1: today to help find Gretchen. You can find her at
13:02
Speaker 1: karen Start dot com. That's Karen with a se Karen,
13:05
Speaker 1: did you hear what he just said? I mean, we're
13:08
Speaker 1: racing through the facts so we can get it out
13:11
Speaker 1: there to help find her. But let me to stop
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Speaker 1: for a minute. Here's dad and I'm thinking to my dad,
13:17
Speaker 1: and you know how I feel about my father out
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Speaker 1: in the cold, going from place to place, bar to restaurant,
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Speaker 1: to bar to restaurant, the gas station to this to
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Speaker 1: that with a picture. This is my girl. Have you
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Speaker 1: seen her. Her name is Gretchen. Can you imagine that,
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Speaker 1: Karen start? It's so vivid, Nancy, I have such an
13:41
Speaker 1: image and I'm so sorry of him going around and saying,
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Speaker 1: have you seen my daughter? And how strange? Who do
13:52
Speaker 1: you know what? Female would leave the bar and allowed
13:57
Speaker 1: let their cell phone be in the bar there be
14:00
Speaker 1: in the bar. Nobody would leave that behind, And it
14:04
Speaker 1: makes you wonder what exactly was going on. It's not
14:07
Speaker 1: a normal situation. I don't even care if someone had
14:11
Speaker 1: a lot to drink. You sort of have it attached
14:14
Speaker 1: to you. Let me ask everybody in the studio, guys,
14:17
Speaker 1: are you within reach of your cell phone right now? Yes?
14:19
Speaker 1: I am, and me and Elly, we all him our
14:24
Speaker 1: cell phones right here. Can I tell you, Karen, remember
14:27
Speaker 1: what I went through trying to decide whether give the
14:29
Speaker 1: twins a cell phone? Yeah? I had planned to do
14:31
Speaker 1: it at age fourteen. And then we all went to
14:33
Speaker 1: this football game and they didn't shake in every twenty
14:36
Speaker 1: minutes like they were supposed to. When I was out
14:38
Speaker 1: wandering in the parking lot, convinced somebody had taken the twins.
14:42
Speaker 1: Of course they had not taken the twins, but it
14:45
Speaker 1: was that moment I decided to give them a cell
14:47
Speaker 1: phone and trick it out with every kind of you know,
14:50
Speaker 1: find our location at you can put on it. You know,
14:53
Speaker 1: this cell phone is partly the answer to the question
14:56
Speaker 1: that you're searching. It's just Del Carson, guys, me is
15:00
Speaker 1: Dell Carson. He's a high profile Laurie Rode Jackson. But
15:04
Speaker 1: the real reason we have him on, not only for
15:06
Speaker 1: his legal acumen, is his former FBI agent for many
15:10
Speaker 1: years and a former officer in Miami day which is
15:14
Speaker 1: a very high crime area. Jump in Dell Carson. You know,
15:17
Speaker 1: it's a mountainous territory in West Nina. Cell phones have
15:21
Speaker 1: illuminated league generators like that good point looking at pains
15:27
Speaker 1: and watching her phone go from one place to another,
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Speaker 1: see if there's another tandem that goes from that same
15:34
Speaker 1: place to another. And then you can tell specifically when
15:38
Speaker 1: she left by looking at the duration of the phone,
15:40
Speaker 1: is it stays charge to see backwards, how long it's
15:45
Speaker 1: been alive, and whether or not the father when he
15:47
Speaker 1: picked up the phone was still active. So and the
15:51
Speaker 1: other questions like who brought the pocketbook back? Exactly right?
15:55
Speaker 1: What she in her car? I mean, where's her car.
15:59
Speaker 1: Those are important issues, but candidly, there'll be transmissions that
16:04
Speaker 1: are limited in range, and all they've got to do
16:06
Speaker 1: is correlate those cell phone pings to isolate out who
16:11
Speaker 1: the hell was involved with her. Can I jump in, Nancy, Yeah,
16:14
Speaker 1: but I want to tell you something, Cheryl. Yes, hold
16:16
Speaker 1: your thought. Guys. I know we're going her key jerky,
16:22
Speaker 1: but this is the way investigations are. First we were
16:26
Speaker 1: talking to her dad about her pocket, but now we're
16:27
Speaker 1: talking about cell phone pings and cars. Okay, so you
16:33
Speaker 1: have to go with the flow. You can't have an
16:35
Speaker 1: outline and read it and write down the outline and
16:38
Speaker 1: think you're going to get a magic answer at the end.
16:40
Speaker 1: So I'm going to get that question answered, mister Fleming.
16:44
Speaker 1: This is Gretchen's dad. Was she traveling in her car
16:47
Speaker 1: that night? Gretchen doesn't have a car. She doesn't ever
16:50
Speaker 1: wanted her driver's license. She wanted to dose people that
16:53
Speaker 1: just doesn't want to drive. She was more of a
16:56
Speaker 1: you know, got a ride by you know Fred Well.
16:59
Speaker 1: That also is not unusual for someone her age twenty seven,
17:03
Speaker 1: but it reflect and agreeability that makes her subject to
17:07
Speaker 1: being manipulated by people. You know you mean, in other words,
17:10
Speaker 1: I don't know about that, but I do know she'd
17:12
Speaker 1: have to get a ride to wherever she was going,
17:15
Speaker 1: so we don't have a car to help us. Let
17:17
Speaker 1: me mark that off. Cheryl McCollum joining me. Founder director
17:21
Speaker 1: of the Cold Case Research Institute. She's also active forensic expert.
17:26
Speaker 1: You can find her and a brand new and it's
17:29
Speaker 1: a hit podcast, Zone seven. Okay, Cheryl, jump in. So
17:34
Speaker 1: she's seen at this bar with an older man and
17:37
Speaker 1: there's inconsistent statements that he's already made to law enforcement.
17:41
Speaker 1: Well wait a minute, Wait a minute, wait, wait, wait,
17:43
Speaker 1: When you say older, you know she's just twenty seven,
17:47
Speaker 1: so that can mean arrange. I could be anywhere from
17:53
Speaker 1: twenty eight to seventy five. Hold on, I'm going to
17:57
Speaker 1: follow up, mister Fleming, David Fleming. We're talking about surveillance video,
18:04
Speaker 1: not at the front row where you retrieved her pocketbook,
18:08
Speaker 1: but from my way restaurant and lounge. Have you seen
18:16
Speaker 1: the surveillance video, mister Fleming? And no, I have not,
18:18
Speaker 1: but I'm aware of it. Have you tried to see it?
18:21
Speaker 1: I haven't taken the time to go look at it yet,
18:24
Speaker 1: but I've been told it by detail of what was
18:27
Speaker 1: all on the video? What were you told is on
18:30
Speaker 1: the video because what we know about may not be
18:34
Speaker 1: as let me say, fully fleshed out, is what you
18:38
Speaker 1: know about? What were you told is on the video?
18:42
Speaker 1: I was told that she was at the My Way
18:45
Speaker 1: and appeared to be pretty intoxicated and talking to an
18:50
Speaker 1: older male. Okay, what about this friend? And I'm not
18:53
Speaker 1: saying he's a suspect because I don't believe that he
18:55
Speaker 1: is a suspect. I call him a friend boy because
18:59
Speaker 1: he's not a boyfriend. He's a friend that is a guy.
19:04
Speaker 1: She went, like Natalie Holloway, went to Carlos and Charlie's
19:09
Speaker 1: in Aruba with her friend girls from high school. They
19:12
Speaker 1: were in a group and then she got separated from
19:15
Speaker 1: the group and ended up with your Vanderslute may he
19:20
Speaker 1: rotten Hell and the Calpoe brothers. May they also rotten Hell?
19:23
Speaker 1: Your daughter Gretchen goes to the first place, the front
19:29
Speaker 1: row with the friend, the longtime friend, who is a male.
19:35
Speaker 1: Is he with her at my Way? She rode with
19:38
Speaker 1: him to my Way and that's where they got separated. Okay, gotcha?
19:43
Speaker 1: So you were told what about the video, mister Fleming
19:47
Speaker 1: that basically she appeared to be intoxicated and was talking
19:51
Speaker 1: to an order man and ended up believing with him.
19:53
Speaker 1: When you say older, what do you mean by older?
19:57
Speaker 1: You know, mid fifty? What in the hay is a
20:00
Speaker 1: man as mid fifty's doing with a twenty seven year
20:02
Speaker 1: old girl. I mean that's a lifestyle, I guess, But
20:04
Speaker 1: I mean I think the same time every time I
20:06
Speaker 1: look at Leonardo DiCaprio. What never mind, not the church lady,
20:12
Speaker 1: not judging. I'm just trying to figure out what this
20:15
Speaker 1: guy is doing there, trying to pick up young girls.
20:21
Speaker 1: And Nancy, if I could just jump in, please, I
20:23
Speaker 1: wanted to make this point. Here's one of the statements
20:26
Speaker 1: he made to law enforcement. He told them at one
20:30
Speaker 1: point that night early morning, she was in his car,
20:33
Speaker 1: So we not only know he was with her, she
20:37
Speaker 1: was in his vehicle at some point, and nobody has
20:40
Speaker 1: seen her since. I think very critical I can add
20:43
Speaker 1: to that. Nancy. Okay, we've got the video. Guys are
20:47
Speaker 1: hearing Dave Matt Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter. Everybody
20:52
Speaker 1: jump in, Okay, go ahead, Dave. We've got the video
20:55
Speaker 1: of Gregg and leaving with this person, and we don't
21:00
Speaker 1: have it all the way to his car. Okay, the
21:02
Speaker 1: video only goes a certain part. He was parked in
21:04
Speaker 1: an area that wasn't picked up by the video. However,
21:07
Speaker 1: we have his own admission that she got into the
21:10
Speaker 1: car with him. He then claims, and this is where
21:14
Speaker 1: the quag comes in, claims that he just dropped her
21:17
Speaker 1: off at some intersection. Okay, that they never went all
21:20
Speaker 1: the way to his house. That's why police are looking
21:23
Speaker 1: for anybody in that area, because he lives about two
21:26
Speaker 1: miles from my way. They're trying to find anybody in
21:29
Speaker 1: that area that has surveillance videos. What about the intersection,
21:32
Speaker 1: Dave mac is there a stops, a red light camp? Well,
21:37
Speaker 1: I don't know. I know that the police obviously did
21:40
Speaker 1: not believe him in what he said, because it makes
21:43
Speaker 1: no sense. You're gonna drop a girl off that you
21:45
Speaker 1: picked up at a bar at an intersection in the
21:47
Speaker 1: middle of the night. That makes no sense whatsoever. Okay, now,
21:50
Speaker 1: wait to you and I, it doesn't make sense. It
21:53
Speaker 1: may not make sense. But what if she said, Hey,
21:56
Speaker 1: I want out of here, I want any bar, let
21:57
Speaker 1: me off right here. I mean, we don't know what happened,
22:00
Speaker 1: but I tend to agree with you. Guys. Take a
22:02
Speaker 1: listen to our cut twelve. This is Semantha Cavalia w
22:05
Speaker 1: TAP new tonight. The Parkersber Police Department has provided WTP
22:09
Speaker 1: with more details on Gretchen Fleming's disappearance. If you have
22:13
Speaker 1: video surveillance, Parkersber Police Chief Matthew Board encourages you to
22:17
Speaker 1: look for this car in your footage. He says to
22:19
Speaker 1: check footage from late night December third through December fifth.
22:22
Speaker 1: If you see the car in your footage, contact Detective
22:25
Speaker 1: Zimmer minute three or four four two four ten seventy two.
22:29
Speaker 1: During after hours you can call three or four four
22:31
Speaker 1: two four eighty four forty four. What kind of car
22:36
Speaker 1: are they looking forward to? David Fleming? This is Gretchen's dad,
22:41
Speaker 1: Gretchen Fleming's dad. What kind of car are they looking for?
22:44
Speaker 1: Mister Fleming. It's a black hatch back. I'm looking for
22:48
Speaker 1: the model here caught me a little thank you. That's it.
22:52
Speaker 1: What it's a black Anthan Rogue Sport. Nissan Rogue Sport.
22:57
Speaker 1: Now question to the panel, I assume wom that a
23:01
Speaker 1: black Nissan Rogue Sport. That's what the described older man
23:09
Speaker 1: was driving that night, correct, Yeah, Okay. Joe Scott Morgan
23:13
Speaker 1: joining me now, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of
23:17
Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. He's got a hit podcast,
23:22
Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott Jennifer Dulos.
23:27
Speaker 1: Remember the missing Connecticut mom of five and of course
23:32
Speaker 1: the husband Fotus and Dulos was her killer. But do
23:38
Speaker 1: you remember the video and photo montage in this small
23:43
Speaker 1: police force in Connecticut that they put together. It was incredible.
23:50
Speaker 1: They have her car, Jennifer Dulos's car, I mean her home,
23:57
Speaker 1: and they've got video surveillance from deadlight cams, intersection cams, businesses,
24:05
Speaker 1: ring doorbell. What really impressed me they even got a
24:08
Speaker 1: I think it was a school bus or a public
24:10
Speaker 1: bus cam where the doors open to let somebody honor
24:15
Speaker 1: off on the bus. And you see photos Dulos going by,
24:19
Speaker 1: placing him at a certain location, ending up at a
24:23
Speaker 1: car car wash specifically to have the interior detailed and cleaned,
24:32
Speaker 1: and in that vehicle her blood was found. That is
24:37
Speaker 1: how you do it at this small Connecticut police force,
24:41
Speaker 1: and I mean that in a complimentary way, put together
24:46
Speaker 1: a video montage of everything that happened that they could
24:50
Speaker 1: it was very impressive. That is what they're trying to
24:54
Speaker 1: do right here, and it is no easy feat. They're
24:56
Speaker 1: asking the public, if you have any foot of this block, Hatchback, Nissan,
25:03
Speaker 1: Row Sport, call this number. We're trying to piece the
25:08
Speaker 1: puzzle together. Okay, just gotta jump in. Yeah, you begin
25:12
Speaker 1: to think about this this, you know they have a
25:15
Speaker 1: Parkersburg has an advantage in this case where where all
25:19
Speaker 1: of this one's down went down. Now, the periphery of
25:22
Speaker 1: Parkersburg is not a densely populated area. However, this is
25:25
Speaker 1: a business dining district. It's down toward the river. A
25:30
Speaker 1: lot of people go there and hang out. So you've
25:33
Speaker 1: got a lot of businesses that are around there. People
25:36
Speaker 1: are walking about. I don't know about the cams on
25:39
Speaker 1: the camp on the stoplights and all of this sort
25:41
Speaker 1: of thing, but businesses alone will have some kind of
25:45
Speaker 1: CCTV footage. That's going to be important here when you're
25:49
Speaker 1: talking about something like a montage, because she her movements
25:53
Speaker 1: can be tracked, and this is something else I think
25:55
Speaker 1: it's critical in this case. You know Mack had mentioned
25:58
Speaker 1: something off the air just a little while ago about
26:01
Speaker 1: about perhaps some type of agent like a drug being
26:05
Speaker 1: placed into her dream. If there is video footage at
26:11
Speaker 1: one of these bars, you can actually appreciate this, Nancy,
26:15
Speaker 1: the uptake of a drug like that into a system. Okay,
26:18
Speaker 1: are you talking about GHB gamm a hydroxyb rate GHB
26:23
Speaker 1: or rehibital either one. They they kind of accomplish the
26:27
Speaker 1: same thing. They're both classified as date rate drugs. But
26:31
Speaker 1: you know the thing about it is both of these
26:33
Speaker 1: drugs and people will find this interesting that have ever
26:35
Speaker 1: had surgery. They're an aid to anaesthesia. It's like it's
26:39
Speaker 1: like a precursor to anesthesia. They put you in this
26:42
Speaker 1: kind of dream like state. You can't really remember anything,
26:46
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. And to Dale's point earlier he
26:49
Speaker 1: talked about compliance, and that's going to be key here.
26:52
Speaker 1: But if they have if they have footage of her
26:55
Speaker 1: having ingested a drink, you know they're they're they're throwing
26:58
Speaker 1: out this thing about her being a nebria. Well, you
27:00
Speaker 1: just don't get inebriated suddenly. If there's an agent in
27:04
Speaker 1: your dream, like a day great drug, it's bam. I mean,
27:08
Speaker 1: you see it. The uptake is like really quickly, so
27:11
Speaker 1: you can have her with a normal gait walking about
27:14
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden she's stumbling. She has
27:17
Speaker 1: to have somebody put their hands on her to aid
27:20
Speaker 1: her as she's walking along. And that's going to be
27:22
Speaker 1: a big tell with this, you know when all of
27:25
Speaker 1: this comes out. Now, back to this car, I'm you
27:28
Speaker 1: know they say that they question this guy. If they
27:31
Speaker 1: have her, question this guy. I hope that they have
27:34
Speaker 1: an eye on this car, that they can get their
27:37
Speaker 1: hands on it as soon as possible so that they
27:40
Speaker 1: can check this car out and track its movements and
27:43
Speaker 1: also anything, I mean anything that might be a tie
27:46
Speaker 1: back to this precious girl. I want to add something
27:50
Speaker 1: off what you're saying, Joe Scott Morgan. And again, mister
27:53
Speaker 1: fleming with me is Gretchen's dad. I'm getting information about
27:58
Speaker 1: these stickers that are on the back of the Nissan
28:02
Speaker 1: Rogue Sport. They are Darth Vader stickers on the back
28:06
Speaker 1: passenger windows, one on either side, and apparently there is
28:11
Speaker 1: a Outer Banks sticker on the rear window as well. Okay,
28:16
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, two words, Michelle Parker, do you remember
28:20
Speaker 1: the People's Court mom who goes missing after she goes
28:23
Speaker 1: on people's court and she and her fiance, the father
28:27
Speaker 1: of her twin children, are fighting mat an engagement ring.
28:31
Speaker 1: The day that it airs, she goes missing, and then
28:35
Speaker 1: her vehicle is found parked in a nearby apartment complex
28:39
Speaker 1: across the street from a mall. As I recall a
28:41
Speaker 1: big mall and the stickers it was for, I think
28:46
Speaker 1: a glow tan. She did, you know, would go to
28:49
Speaker 1: various homes and part of her business was that she
28:53
Speaker 1: would do these glow tans. There was a huge sticker
28:56
Speaker 1: on her car which made it highly recognizable. They had
29:01
Speaker 1: been very meticulously scraped off the vehicle, so somebody knew
29:08
Speaker 1: that that would give away the location of her car,
29:10
Speaker 1: and they did not want her car found. I think
29:12
Speaker 1: it was a cheap or hummer maybe, so jump in,
29:16
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan. When you have these stickers on a
29:19
Speaker 1: car like this, it will give you an insight into
29:22
Speaker 1: the lives of people. Who they are, what they do,
29:24
Speaker 1: what their interests are, where they travel too. You know,
29:27
Speaker 1: in this case, you know we've got well obviously Darth
29:31
Speaker 1: Vader maybe into Star Wars and also traveling you know,
29:36
Speaker 1: outer banks. Is this an in place that this individual
29:39
Speaker 1: goes to regularly to go get away from it all.
29:42
Speaker 1: Is that their place? Is that their thing? Do they
29:44
Speaker 1: have associates that'd like to go there? So it gives
29:46
Speaker 1: you an insight into their life and they're traveling to
29:49
Speaker 1: these locations in this particular in this particular vehicle, it
29:54
Speaker 1: goes to their style of life and how they live. Also,
29:58
Speaker 1: it's highly identifiable VI with stickers on it jump in,
30:01
Speaker 1: jump in Share. I'm gonna call him Joe Scott's ripe.
30:03
Speaker 1: But there's a flip side of that coin and that
30:06
Speaker 1: is it goes to his crimes. Meaning this is a
30:10
Speaker 1: four door car. The Darth Vader stickers are on the
30:13
Speaker 1: back like where children sit. Then that sticker with the
30:15
Speaker 1: outer banks looks like those stickers that soccer moms put
30:18
Speaker 1: on where they go for the girls weekends. This car
30:22
Speaker 1: was non threatening. This isn't like he was in a
30:25
Speaker 1: windowless van or a big beat up peacup truck. This
30:28
Speaker 1: does not look like a kidnappers car and that's on purpose. Guys.
30:33
Speaker 1: This all occurs just before Christmas, but according to police,
30:38
Speaker 1: that is not slowing down the search for this gorgeous
30:42
Speaker 1: young girl, Gretchen. Take a listen hour cut ten or
30:46
Speaker 1: friends at WTAP Sin Scratching was reported missing on December twelfth.
30:50
Speaker 1: Chief Board says the department has been working around the clock.
30:54
Speaker 1: The investigation has not slowed down. There are people dedicated
30:57
Speaker 1: specifically to this case. And as I said, the holidays
31:01
Speaker 1: didn't slow that down. Christmas Eve, Christmas Day still working,
31:04
Speaker 1: so it has not slowed down with time at all.
31:08
Speaker 1: If anything, it's gaining speed. So far. The department has
31:11
Speaker 1: issued and executed several search warrants. WTAP asked if the
31:15
Speaker 1: person of interest was a part of those search warrants.
31:18
Speaker 1: Chief Board cannot say out this time since it is
31:21
Speaker 1: an active investigation. I know it seems at times that
31:24
Speaker 1: we may not be forthcoming with information, but there's a
31:27
Speaker 1: reason for that, and we release what we can. We've
31:30
Speaker 1: just seen in the Idaho case where police were actively
31:35
Speaker 1: trailing suspect. I'm not releasing the details because the suspect
31:41
Speaker 1: would have been known and altered his behavior. We saw
31:44
Speaker 1: the same thing in the Delphi double murder of Abbey
31:47
Speaker 1: and Libby. The local police held their cards close to
31:52
Speaker 1: the vest because if it had gotten out that there
31:55
Speaker 1: was a bullet they thought ejected from the gun of
31:58
Speaker 1: the purp lying between the two girls' bodies, the moment
32:03
Speaker 1: that would have come out. You know, the defendant would
32:07
Speaker 1: have gotten rid of that gun in a minute, in
32:09
Speaker 1: a heartbeat. So all the evidence is as not released
32:15
Speaker 1: to the public for a reason. Crime Stories With Nancy Grace,
32:37
Speaker 1: I want to talk about something that just got Morgan
32:40
Speaker 1: brought up. David Fleming is joining me. This is Gretchen's dad,
32:45
Speaker 1: and there have been reports that Gretchen was highly intoxicated
32:51
Speaker 1: at the time she was seen exiting the bar, the
32:55
Speaker 1: my Way Lounge karaoke lounge. If she been given GHB
33:02
Speaker 1: or a ruthie, that's exactly how she would appear drunk
33:09
Speaker 1: out of it, much the way I believe Natalie Holloway
33:11
Speaker 1: appeared when she left Carlos and Charlie's What can you
33:14
Speaker 1: tell me about Gretchen. I really don't have any information
33:18
Speaker 1: that you know, I'm just going on hearsay of what
33:20
Speaker 1: was reported. Would she have gone out with her girlfriends
33:24
Speaker 1: and had a drinking party. Would she have done that
33:27
Speaker 1: or is it more likely that she would slip something?
33:30
Speaker 1: You know, she probably went out and had some drinks um,
33:33
Speaker 1: you know, not to say that it could have been both.
33:35
Speaker 1: You know, for instance, if somebody saw me appear intoxicated,
33:38
Speaker 1: they would, my close friends would. That's entirely wrong because
33:42
Speaker 1: I'm a teetotaler, Nancy. But jump inc. I represented a
33:47
Speaker 1: client who a very attractive woman who was at a
33:50
Speaker 1: bar and she got raped and she had GHB put
33:55
Speaker 1: in her drink. She was arrested for fighting with police
34:01
Speaker 1: when she was dropped off at a fire station, and
34:05
Speaker 1: she became hugely intoxicated, just as Joe Joe mentioned, and
34:12
Speaker 1: she ultimately got charged. Interestingly, we had her blood because
34:17
Speaker 1: they took her blood and we could not even find
34:20
Speaker 1: any substance like that. It is my belief that you can't.
34:25
Speaker 1: Some of those chemicals you're not able to find even
34:28
Speaker 1: with a blood draw and Joe, they're metabolized. It's metabolized
34:32
Speaker 1: very very quickly. The key is if you have a
34:35
Speaker 1: suspect in a case like this, if you dig through
34:39
Speaker 1: their home, you dig through their through their car, they
34:42
Speaker 1: shouldn't be in possession of this. If they are in
34:44
Speaker 1: possession of this, again, it runs kind of parallel to
34:47
Speaker 1: the to the narrative. You want to know if they
34:50
Speaker 1: have it, do they have the ability to use it?
34:52
Speaker 1: And also if this individual has ever done anything like
34:55
Speaker 1: this before, that's going to be a big tale as well.
34:58
Speaker 1: I want to talk about in the effects of if
35:00
Speaker 1: your GHB Cheryl McCollum, wouldn't she have acted or appear
35:03
Speaker 1: to be drunk. There's no question about it. And here's
35:06
Speaker 1: what would be also part of the mo Most likely
35:09
Speaker 1: he's gonna like escort her out. He's gonna be like
35:12
Speaker 1: holding her elbow or maybe have his arm around her
35:15
Speaker 1: leading her away. And that's why I think this video
35:18
Speaker 1: is going to be so critical. This guy has been
35:21
Speaker 1: identified by police. We know who the POI is. Take
35:26
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut thirteen wtap. Chief Ford says
35:29
Speaker 1: they believe the person of interest took Fleming to their residence.
35:33
Speaker 1: The person of interest originally told officials that they gave
35:36
Speaker 1: Fleming a ride and she departed at an unknown location. However,
35:39
Speaker 1: chief Ford says the story was inconsistent and additional surveillance
35:43
Speaker 1: footage led them to believe the person of interest took
35:46
Speaker 1: her to their residence. Officials have executed sir to warrants
35:50
Speaker 1: on the person of interest residence, car, electronic devices, and
35:53
Speaker 1: a storage building. Chief Ford says law enforcement spoke with
35:57
Speaker 1: a person of interest in the beginning of the investigation,
36:00
Speaker 1: but they are no longer giving police information. I'm learning
36:03
Speaker 1: a lot from what I just heard. Number One, everything
36:05
Speaker 1: we were talking about regarding gathering surveillance at that intersection
36:11
Speaker 1: where the POY says he dropped her off, forget that.
36:14
Speaker 1: That's null and void because now we know police say
36:19
Speaker 1: they have additional information. I believe it to be CCTV
36:24
Speaker 1: or S surveillance video some sort that tells them he
36:30
Speaker 1: took her to his place. Now right there, Karen Stark,
36:36
Speaker 1: If he took her to his place and then she left,
36:38
Speaker 1: why not just say that I brought her home. She
36:41
Speaker 1: wanted to leave, so I got her an uber. Why
36:45
Speaker 1: not say that if that's what happened. Why lie? If
36:49
Speaker 1: in fact he did lie, well, Nancy, let's let's be
36:52
Speaker 1: clear about this. That's just the fact that he's no
36:54
Speaker 1: longer cooperating. That speaks volumes about him holding in from
37:00
Speaker 1: nation and being concerned. And he would not tell the
37:05
Speaker 1: truth if he brought her back, because why would he would?
37:09
Speaker 1: That would make him be even more suspect. So this
37:13
Speaker 1: is a nefarious character. There's no doubt in my mind.
37:17
Speaker 1: Just just hearing that he's refusing to cooperate at this point,
37:21
Speaker 1: and it makes you wonder what would be the next
37:24
Speaker 1: steps that they would be taking. Well, another thing is
37:27
Speaker 1: I believe Karen start exactly correct. They're looking at the
37:31
Speaker 1: next step. Did anyone see that particular Nissan Rogue after
37:39
Speaker 1: it went to his David Fleming? This is Gretch's dad,
37:43
Speaker 1: as in an apartment or a home. It was at
37:46
Speaker 1: a rental home. I wonder if they're wanting surveillance or
37:51
Speaker 1: witnesses that saw the car after the car left the home.
37:57
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, take a listen to our
37:58
Speaker 1: cut fifteen Marini and they want anyone who lives in
38:02
Speaker 1: that area to review their home security systems to see
38:05
Speaker 1: if this car is in any of the footage from
38:08
Speaker 1: early morning hours of December fourth through noon on the fifth.
38:12
Speaker 1: Let's go over what we can see about the car
38:14
Speaker 1: that might help it stand out to you. Now, it's
38:17
Speaker 1: a black Nissan Rogue Sport. We don't know the year,
38:19
Speaker 1: but it seems to be fairly new model. From this
38:22
Speaker 1: photo of the back, there's a Pittsburgh Penguins vanity plate cover. Now,
38:27
Speaker 1: one distinct thing that might show up on your home footage.
38:30
Speaker 1: Both sides of the car have these Darth Vader decals
38:33
Speaker 1: on the backseat windows as you can see in the photos.
38:36
Speaker 1: It's above the gas stoor and on the other side
38:38
Speaker 1: as well, and one more close up of the car
38:41
Speaker 1: we can see an outer bank sticker on the left
38:43
Speaker 1: side of the rear windshield. Nancy, I gotta jump in,
38:47
Speaker 1: please please do. I'm gonna go back to that video
38:49
Speaker 1: for a second. Whether or not she had her purse
38:52
Speaker 1: when she left is key. Second. If she had her purse,
38:56
Speaker 1: then her phone is going to paying wherever he took
38:58
Speaker 1: her to his residence or elsewhere. The other thing is
39:02
Speaker 1: who brought that purse back that phone would still be
39:05
Speaker 1: paying in. Well, it's my understanding she left the purse
39:08
Speaker 1: at the bar, the original bar perhaps, and the friend
39:13
Speaker 1: boy actually took it back when he couldn't find her
39:16
Speaker 1: to the bar where they originally Matt David Fleming. Do
39:20
Speaker 1: we know who handed the purse over to the establishment? Yeah?
39:27
Speaker 1: Who wasn't? And I don't want to say names. I
39:29
Speaker 1: don't need a name. I just need to know. Was
39:31
Speaker 1: it somebody there at the bar that night? Was it
39:33
Speaker 1: a waiter or a waitress? Was it the friend guy?
39:36
Speaker 1: It was it was the friend guy that returned the
39:38
Speaker 1: purse back to the guard. Aha. Okay, that's telling me
39:41
Speaker 1: a lot. What did you make of that, scharl McCollum. Again,
39:44
Speaker 1: what I would focus on now is his cell phone
39:47
Speaker 1: pings and if they have flog cameras picking up his
39:50
Speaker 1: car all over town, where did he go after going
39:55
Speaker 1: to his home? That's a really good point. If the
39:59
Speaker 1: digger go to the home, and we hope we know
40:02
Speaker 1: that he did go to the home. The cops have
40:03
Speaker 1: already told us that they believe he took her to
40:07
Speaker 1: the home, And what Cheryla is saying is where did
40:09
Speaker 1: he go? Immediately after? David Fleming is with me. This
40:13
Speaker 1: is Gretchen's dad. David has Gretchen ever stayed out of
40:17
Speaker 1: touch for this long? There is no doubt in my
40:21
Speaker 1: mind she has met with foul play. At this very moment,
40:24
Speaker 1: she could be being held against her will. There is
40:29
Speaker 1: a chance we could help bring Gretchen Fleming home alive.
40:35
Speaker 1: Tipline three zero four four two four one zero seven
40:40
Speaker 1: to repeat three oh four four two four one zero
40:45
Speaker 1: seven two. We wait as justice unfalse. Goodbye, Frank