Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Joy Amidst Change: Coping with Holiday Family Dynamics | Ep. 104

Transcript

Joy Amidst Change: Coping with Holiday Family Dynamics | Ep. 104 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:05
  Buon Natale, Gut Jul, Feliz Navidad, Joyeux Noël, Fröhliche Weihnachten.
• 0:21
  In other words, Welcome to this holiday edition of the Parenting Podcast.
• 0:27
  I'm Sher Lang, your host, and I'm delighted you've joined us as we conclude our Family Yuletide miniseries.
• 0:35
  Today, we turn our attention to the complex but sometimes sensitive issues of changing family dynamics during the holidays.
• 0:45
  It's a topic close to the heart, where challenges and changes often intersect with the joy we seek during this special season, whether it's the addition of a new family member, coping with separation or distance, or grappling with the loss of a loved one.
• 1:06
  Our recording team draws from our own personal experiences to share not only the weight of these situations, but also some practical coping ideas.
• 1:17
  And ways to find moments of joy amidst all the changes.
• 1:23
  So, listen in now.
• 1:24
  Oh, and please bear with us again because we still had tech issues with my mic.
• 1:32
  Which I find a bit ironic considering our episode's focus is on unexpected changes.
• 1:48
  Cheryl (2): You know, as we're heading into this holiday season kind of gets inaugurated I think, at the beginning of November, with
• 1:55
  Cheryl: daylight savings time.
• 1:57
  Christie: Yeah.
• 1:58
  Christie: Right.
• 1:58
  Christie: I want to live in Arizona.
• 2:00
  Cheryl: I was just going to say.
• 2:02
  Cheryl: It was so nice.
• 2:03
  Cheryl: Because they go, we don't want more sun.
• 2:04
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 2:05
  Cheryl: Right.
• 2:05
  Cheryl: So when we lived there, there was no change.
• 2:07
  Christie: Yeah.
• 2:08
  Christie: My daughter's moving there in the spring.
• 2:09
  Christie: And so I'm going to really be confused knowing what time it is there.
• 2:13
  Christie: I'm going to be asking Siri all the time.
• 2:14
  Christie: And everyone hates it,
• 2:15
  Ellen: but none of our legislatures want to take the time.
• 2:19
  Ellen: Every year they talk about it.
• 2:20
  Ellen: Let's, let's change this.
• 2:22
  Ellen: And
• 2:22
  Christie: nobody does.
• 2:23
  Christie: I'd be happy to stay the same.
• 2:25
  Christie: I don't like change.
• 2:26
  Christie: I mean, who does?
• 2:26
  Christie: But whatever we did, just do it.
• 2:30
  Christie: I mean, I say that, but I don't like this time of year because of the dark early in the evening.
• 2:35
  Christie: It feels a little suffocating to me.
• 2:37
  Christie: It
• 2:37
  Cheryl: really does.
• 2:38
  Cheryl: We had the opportunity to go, some friends offered us their lake house, so our whole family that's here in town
• 2:45
  Cheryl (2): went So that's three little ones, and it was just wonderful upstairs and downstairs, and so the little ones were upstairs, and so Saturday night when they rolled back the clock, so for adults, yes, we get another hour.
• 3:02
  Cheryl: It's always a good thing.
• 3:04
  Cheryl: Very different when you have little children.
• 3:05
  Cheryl: Yes, it does not affect their sleep schedule.
• 3:07
  Cheryl: So at 5.
• 3:08
  Cheryl: 30 in the morning, I heard doo doo doo doo doo, running back and forth upstairs, you know, and then they're cranky and exhausted early.
• 3:17
  Cheryl: It's just I had forgotten.
• 3:20
  Cheryl: Oh,
• 3:20
  Christie: yeah.
• 3:21
  Christie: Yes, it was the worst when my kids were little.
• 3:24
  Christie: We had digital clocks in our kids rooms as soon as they knew their numbers.
• 3:27
  Christie: We taught them 8 0 0.
• 3:29
  Christie: You stay in your room until 8 0 0.
• 3:32
  Christie: And I remember one, one year we were changing the clocks and Tim said, Why don't we do this all the time?
• 3:38
  Christie: This is amazing.
• 3:39
  Christie: Because they, they will stay in there until it says 8 0 0.
• 3:42
  Christie: And it doesn't really
• 3:43
  Ellen: matter to them in their whole day what time it is.
• 3:46
  Ellen: That's just
• 3:47
  Christie: the same.
• 3:47
  Christie: And they're just playing quietly and reading and, you know, building stuff with blocks and we're drinking our coffee,
• 3:52
  Cheryl: you know?
• 3:52
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 3:53
  Cheryl: I have a dear long term friend, nobody ever reset their VHS.
• 3:58
  Cheryl: So hers was actually accurate, but only six months, half a year.
• 4:03
  Cheryl: I would text her this weekend, twice a year and go, now, are you on time, whatever it is.
• 4:10
  Christie: Yeah.
• 4:12
  Christie: I Know.
• 4:12
  Christie: But you're right.
• 4:13
  Christie: It really is kind of the unofficial we are in it.
• 4:16
  Christie: Whether we like it or not holiday season, but the good
• 4:19
  Cheryl: news is we only have about six weeks before it starts getting.
• 4:23
  Cheryl: Yeah, that's right.
• 4:24
  Cheryl: Because of winter solstice.
• 4:25
  Cheryl: Right.
• 4:26
  Cheryl: on that bright note, let's jump back into our conversation about holidays.
• 4:33
  Cheryl: And
• 4:33
  Cheryl (2): One of the areas we haven't really touched on is navigating family dynamics.
• 4:40
  Cheryl (2): I just didn't know it would be really impacting the way it is when I grew up.
• 4:46
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 4:47
  Cheryl: Yeah,
• 4:47
  Christie: that's true.
• 4:48
  Christie: Yeah.
• 4:48
  Christie: Well, I think Children of divorce know it's a real subject.
• 4:52
  Christie: Yeah I mean we eventually settled into kind of a routine that you know was was decided and worked well But it's still complicated, you know navigating the back and forth and so I I I should have known better than that it would be an issue, but It was surprising for me as my kids started entering into adulthood, and now I have one married.
• 5:13
  Christie: I was like, Oh, this is different.
• 5:16
  Christie: We're going to have to navigate some things that I didn't expect.
• 5:19
  Cheryl: Okay, would you mind both speaking into it as children that came from divorced homes?
• 5:24
  Cheryl: Uh, I know a lot of our
• 5:26
  Cheryl (2): listening audience is struggling with it currently, or they also had it in their childhood.
• 5:30
  Cheryl (2): So y'all can speak from your experience
• 5:33
  Ellen: Well, mine was my father wasn't around, so it didn't matter.
• 5:36
  Ellen: we live with my grandparents.
• 5:38
  Ellen: So, you know, I mean, it affected me, but the holidays were always the same.
• 5:42
  Ellen: It was about my grandparents and my mom and things like that.
• 5:46
  Ellen: So, so yours was stable.
• 5:47
  Cheryl: Yeah, very stable.
• 5:49
  Cheryl: Just
• 5:49
  Ellen: the absence of, yeah, just not having a father.
• 5:52
  Ellen: So father around, he eventually came around
• 5:55
  Cheryl: Yeah, but it's hard.
• 5:56
  Cheryl: I want us to acknowledge though, that's hard.
• 5:58
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 5:59
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 6:00
  Cheryl: And that's one of the things, not to have a downer
• 6:02
  Cheryl (2): episode, but what we want to do is look at this, talk about it, and then affirm things that are hard.
• 6:09
  Christie: Yeah, and try to make the best of what what is.
• 6:12
  Christie: Yeah.
• 6:13
  Christie: Yeah, both my parents lived in the same town most mostly I mean in the same within 15 20 minutes of each other.
• 6:19
  Christie: So that really Helped the situation.
• 6:22
  Christie: It would have been much more challenging had they been you know When you're you have two parents in different states or cities or whatever.
• 6:27
  Christie: Yeah, and so like I said, we eventually came to a A normal rhythm that worked pretty well for holidays.
• 6:36
  Christie: So,
• 6:36
  Cheryl: how did you do it?
• 6:37
  Cheryl: So, I mean, I know a lot of people have...
• 6:40
  Cheryl (2): One friend that I've had for over 20 years, and they have four of everything of whatever they did.
• 6:46
  Cheryl (2): So whether it's
• 6:47
  Cheryl: Thanksgiving
• 6:47
  Cheryl (2): or Christmas, they have to do four of
• 6:49
  Christie: them.
• 6:49
  Christie: Yeah, that's how I mean, like, like as an adult, after I grew up and had my own family, we, I, we did it all.
• 6:57
  Christie: And I don't know if that was the best choice or not.
• 7:00
  Christie: It was hard because everybody was in within driving distance.
• 7:04
  Christie: So it felt like, why not try to, and everyone, For the most part was accommodating of you know, yeah, trying to schedule where we could be because I wanted to see us and But I mean I did see other people that could just be in one place for the day You know that was kind of not eating turkey three times in one day because my husband's family's close to so we would You know, do you like an early lunch, a late lunch, and a dinner for Thanksgiving and then Christmas.
• 7:33
  Christie: You did it all in one day.
• 7:35
  Christie: Yeah, and then Christmas is a lot easier because you get to spread it over two days.
• 7:39
  Christie: People are okay with doing Christmas Eve.
• 7:42
  Christie: Yeah, we would do my dad's Christmas Eve, usually my husband's parents early on Christmas morning, and then my mom's in the afternoon.
• 7:50
  Christie: So yeah, it worked out.
• 7:52
  Christie: I know it doesn't.
• 7:53
  Christie: It's not always, um, and there were years that were tense or complicated, but, um, it's doable, but it's, it can be exhausting sometimes.
• 8:03
  Ellen: I can imagine.
• 8:05
  Cheryl: You're making me tired.
• 8:09
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 8:09
  Cheryl: And I think
• 8:10
  Christie: a lot of it, I just didn't know any different.
• 8:12
  Christie: I mean, it was just how that felt like a component of holidays.
• 8:16
  Christie: Like I said, it was much later when I realized some people do not have this component in their
• 8:20
  Cheryl: holiday.
• 8:21
  Ellen: But I think Christy kind of touched on it, too, though.
• 8:23
  Ellen: When you're young, you don't really know.
• 8:25
  Ellen: That's just how you celebrate it.
• 8:27
  Ellen: It's when you get a little older, you're like, Oh, because most kids, I don't know, little ones are pretty flexible.
• 8:34
  Ellen: Okay, now we're going over to grandma's.
• 8:35
  Ellen: Now we're going over to your dad's.
• 8:37
  Ellen: Right.
• 8:38
  Ellen: You know, that may not be convenient once you get a little older, but I think for little ones, that's just how
• 8:44
  Christie: their life is.
• 8:45
  Christie: Right, and for the most part, Holidays were a little bit sacred for my parents, no matter what tensions might have been at play.
• 8:52
  Christie: They, they worked pretty well at making sure we had holidays with each parent.
• 8:59
  Christie: And it was fair, and I don't know what tensions might have been behind the scenes, but from my perspective, they did hold holidays fairly sacred to honor that for
• 9:07
  Cheryl: us.
• 9:09
  Cheryl: If it's not, the adults need to have the conversations.
• 9:13
  Cheryl: Let me ask you, because I don't know if this is unrealistic, um, one of the things that happened to us, like
• 9:21
  Cheryl (2): Ellen,
• 9:21
  Cheryl: you lived away from family for so many years because of military, while because of MOVES, we lived away from family for a number of years, so we didn't have to deal with
• 9:31
  Cheryl (2): family dynamics.
• 9:33
  Cheryl: And I really, Got kind of self possessive of enjoying our Christmas and our Thanksgiving, you know, the way
• 9:42
  Cheryl (2): we enjoyed it What do y'all think is it at all feasible that children who grow up and they are married that they would talk to all the parents and Grandparents and say you're welcome to come to our house, and we want you to come and be a part.
• 9:57
  Cheryl (2): but we're not going to play Travel bingo and go to everybody else, like for you all to do three different times uh,
• 10:05
  Cheryl: I just don't know.
• 10:06
  Christie: It probably depends heavily on the people you're working with.
• 10:11
  Christie: And then also what your preference would be.
• 10:13
  Christie: That would not have been my preference.
• 10:15
  Christie: I would have preferred to go to everyone's houses separate.
• 10:19
  Christie: Probably most children of divorce feel that way of keeping everyone kind of happy in their camps.
• 10:25
  Christie: You know, it feels a little more tension to keep everyone happy if you're all in one room.
• 10:30
  Christie: And then Oh,
• 10:31
  Cheryl: well.
• 10:31
  Cheryl: And I can see that, but I'm just throwing it out there
• 10:34
  Christie: Yeah.
• 10:35
  Christie: Well, I like hosting, but it's just that the dynamics of relationships with them.
• 10:40
  Christie: Now we did do that for my kids birthdays.
• 10:42
  Christie: From the very get go.
• 10:43
  Christie: My kids had their birthday party and anyone who wanted to come to their birthday party could come to their birthday party.
• 10:50
  Christie: And so we didn't do it.
• 10:51
  Christie: Wait.
• 10:52
  Christie: I take that back.
• 10:53
  Christie: There was some hey, we'll come over to your house and pick up her gift and that kind of thing, but it wasn't because of divorce.
• 11:00
  Christie: It was just schedule usually.
• 11:02
  Christie: And so, yeah, I think.
• 11:03
  Christie: I mean, whatever, whatever boundaries and you have to set to make it joyful for you, I think, that just wouldn't have not have been a preference.
• 11:15
  Ellen: And to remember, it's one holiday of a hundred holidays coming up.
• 11:20
  Ellen: And you know, when your children get married, I always said to my kids, You guys figure out how you want to do this, you know, it's a really good idea to have things at your house If you just want to just have it alone for your first year your newlyweds you can come over here whatever you want to do and that's kind of we're in the process of organizing all of our our Four kids and the 17 grandkids and now we've got a newlywed couple So we're kind of trying to figure out how does everybody want to usually they're at my house But I don't, I don't get that hung up on it.
• 11:53
  Ellen: I just kind of like hold it loosely.
• 11:56
  Ellen: You know, I think probably for being in the military, you know, we lived in a million different places, customs were different, times were different.
• 12:04
  Ellen: Sometimes you had, you know, your family there.
• 12:07
  Ellen: Other times we just had it with ourselves and brought in people to just join us.
• 12:12
  Ellen: So to me, that.
• 12:13
  Ellen: It isn't, I think the, the expectation of holding on to something so tightly is where we get really tripped up.
• 12:21
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 12:22
  Cheryl: What I like about what you're saying is when you're
• 12:26
  Cheryl (2): the child, you can't do anything about it, but I love this, that we have the conversations.
• 12:30
  Cheryl (2): So even when there's divorce involved in different family situations, the adults, the parents of the children say.
• 12:41
  Cheryl: Let's design what we want and think what's best for our family and then have that conversation with how many extended family there is involved.
• 12:50
  Cheryl: Right.
• 12:50
  Christie: Yeah.
• 12:51
  Christie: Well, and I like what you're saying, Ellen, of, you know, not putting so much weight on one holiday.
• 12:57
  Christie: So my husband worked out of town 26 weeks a year for eight years.
• 13:03
  Christie: He was in the oil field and so he would be gone every other week for seven days, no matter what holiday fell in that seven days.
• 13:09
  Christie: And so he missed a lot of holidays.
• 13:11
  Christie: Well, that what that caused us to do is find things throughout the year to gather our extended family for game nights or birthday parties.
• 13:19
  Christie: And so we really don't remember which holidays he was there for and which ones he wasn't because we've had enough year round things where all the family was together for pizza for a game night or other things that happened that didn't put so much weight on.
• 13:35
  Christie: Thanksgiving or Christmas.
• 13:37
  Christie: And I think that was helpful to alleviate some of the
• 13:40
  Cheryl: pressure.
• 13:40
  Cheryl: If I were listening to y'all talk, I would say, man, that's what
• 13:44
  Cheryl (2): I want to do is instead of focusing on how complex all of this is,
• 13:49
  Cheryl: instead say, let's look for beneficial ways to have our families together when it's not the pressure of the holiday.
• 13:58
  Cheryl: Because that's not what the holidays are about.
• 14:00
  Cheryl: They're about Thanksgiving and celebration.
• 14:03
  Cheryl (2): What a great alternative.
• 14:05
  Cheryl (2): I like that.
• 14:06
  Cheryl (2): okay.
• 14:06
  Cheryl (2): Empty nesters.
• 14:07
  Cheryl (2): I can talk about that And say, again, I don't like the change.
• 14:12
  Cheryl (2): I wanted them to have their own lives.
• 14:14
  Cheryl (2): But it affected our holiday celebrations, you know.
• 14:18
  Cheryl (2): So, speaking to that what have you done, would it be the same process?
• 14:24
  Cheryl: You're really blessed.
• 14:24
  Cheryl: Right.
• 14:25
  Cheryl: You have all of your children here.
• 14:26
  Cheryl: Right.
• 14:27
  Ellen: So...
• 14:28
  Ellen: They've all remained close, so we can do whatever we want to do.
• 14:32
  Ellen: So you know, there's lots of times where one of the couples and all the kids will go down to their in laws.
• 14:37
  Ellen: And I don't feel cheated because I always look at it.
• 14:39
  Ellen: I can see my grandkids.
• 14:41
  Ellen: I can see my kids anytime I want to.
• 14:43
  Ellen: You know, they're...
• 14:43
  Ellen: within driving distance, you know, within, you know, 20 minutes from my house.
• 14:47
  Ellen: So that is never been like a hard, sad thing.
• 14:51
  Ellen: And so I can feel like I can be very open handed.
• 14:54
  Ellen: Hey, if you want to go, if it's your turn to go to your in laws, that's fine.
• 14:57
  Ellen: If that's what you want to do.
• 14:59
  Ellen: Sometimes they don't always want to do that.
• 15:01
  Ellen: They want to, they go, but we like.
• 15:02
  Ellen: But you know, that's, that's a whole different animal, but you know, just, I think we just get too serious about the holidays and we forget what we're supposed to be celebrating.
• 15:15
  Ellen: I know for Cheryl and I, because we're a little older than you, Christy, nobody was so insane about Christmas.
• 15:21
  Ellen: It was like two weeks before Christmas.
• 15:24
  Ellen: You might've got your tree, put your decorations up, made some Christmas cookies and went to church or whatever you did.
• 15:31
  Ellen: And that was Christmas.
• 15:32
  Ellen: And of course, as a kid, you're excited, but it wasn't this big production.
• 15:36
  Ellen: Now, I mean, the minute Thanksgiving's over, they're already starting the Christmas sales, the Christmas music, you know, and so it puts this huge expectation on everybody.
• 15:48
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 15:48
  Ellen: Rather than to go, hey, it's one, one day out of 365.
• 15:54
  Christie: Well, it's funny, though, for me, some of that.
• 15:58
  Christie: Extended celebrating is the hard part of and I'm not empty nested yet.
• 16:03
  Christie: Yeah, but we're having more vacancies and so I've realized the things that are harder for me are the Little traditions we do around the holidays that we don't because you know the actual holiday Everyone might be able to be there for some of them, but like the Tuesday night Christmas light watching or this, you know, this movie on a Thursday night, those things we can't prioritize to get everyone under one roof for.
• 16:30
  Christie: And so that extended celebration of, you know, the whole season is kind of where I have the, Oh, now I do this alone or now nobody really wants to come and put the Christmas village up for me or with me and make the cookies And I think
• 16:44
  Ellen: in freedom, we have to give that as a gift to our children.
• 16:48
  Ellen: So that there's no guilt.
• 16:49
  Ellen: That they know, hey, you've moved out, you're on your own, you're welcome.
• 16:54
  Ellen: You know the things that we do at the house.
• 16:56
  Ellen: If you want to do them, let me know.
• 16:58
  Ellen: And, you know, start organizing early, so you know who's coming and going and who's bringing what.
• 17:03
  Ellen: And if they can't come or don't want to come, it's okay.
• 17:06
  Ellen: There's
• 17:06
  Cheryl: next year.
• 17:08
  Cheryl (2): Particularly as a widow, what I've had to go through is really thinking about my priorities and finding joy in myself, even if I have to do it by myself,
• 17:18
  Ellen: Yeah,
• 17:19
  Cheryl (2): to find joy in other people and other things instead of being fixated on my loss.
• 17:25
  Ellen: That's really good
• 17:26
  Cheryl (2): Right.
• 17:26
  Cheryl (2): And, you know, you were talking about
• 17:28
  Cheryl: different
• 17:29
  Cheryl (2): celebrations, One of the things our family, we've talked about it here before, is we do Christmas Adam.
• 17:35
  Cheryl (2): which is the day before Christmas Eve, because Adam comes before Eve, and so our silly little tradition that we just created is we go out for Vietnamese Pho Soup.
• 17:45
  Cheryl (2): Uh huh.
• 17:45
  Cheryl (2): And so it's been really fun because when my youngest daughter and son were overseas on Christmas Eve, they found a place they had Pho Soup.
• 17:57
  Cheryl (2): Oh, that's fun.
• 17:57
  Cheryl (2): And they took pictures.
• 17:58
  Cheryl (2): We go, that's fun Yeah.
• 17:59
  Cheryl (2): And then my Son that lives in India, they sent us a picture because they found in Mumbai India a place that has Oh, that's so neat.
• 18:07
  Cheryl (2): So that really was fun.
• 18:08
  Cheryl (2): Yeah.
• 18:08
  Cheryl (2): To have that continuity.
• 18:10
  Cheryl (2): of Across the Miles little tradition that we just created you know, but just, Ellen, you put your hands up in a while ago, open handed on it, because I would rather choose to love my family well than to cling to the traditions that I want.
• 18:27
  Ellen: And don't spend it alone.
• 18:29
  Ellen: There's lots of people in your sphere of influence, your church or whatever, that may not have a place to go.
• 18:36
  Ellen: So if it looks like you're going to be by yourself, then start keeping your ears open.
• 18:40
  Ellen: I mean, we've had times where we've just opened our house and said, whoever doesn't have a place to go, come on over to our house for Christmas.
• 18:48
  Ellen: And you know, that's, that's just what you got to do.
• 18:51
  Cheryl (2): And we've said it before, but I want to remind you again, particularly Watch for people who have had losses of different kinds throughout the year I have a friend that's going to be fairly recently divorced and so her holidays are very different because her parents are gone.
• 19:08
  Cheryl: Right.
• 19:09
  Cheryl: And so what is
• 19:10
  Cheryl (2): she going to do And I want to intentionally reach out and if we're not doing it on the day, I'm gonna invite her but then also reach out and do some fun things with her because actually these holidays that we're talking about are supposed to be about others instead of ourselves.
• 19:28
  Cheryl (2): But if I didn't, if I, if I sat and thought about poor me and my loss, I wouldn't be doing that Yeah.
• 19:35
  Cheryl (2): And
• 19:35
  Ellen: speaking of losses, those are really hard.
• 19:38
  Ellen: Whether it's divorce or death or whatever, just physical separation, you know, those are really hard things.
• 19:46
  Ellen: And I know The first year after our son died, um, that was really hard.
• 19:51
  Ellen: It really was.
• 19:52
  Ellen: And I didn't want to celebrate the holidays, but I knew for the rest of the family, we needed to do that.
• 19:58
  Ellen: And so I just kind of was thinking about, well, what can I do to make this Any better, or what do we need to do?
• 20:05
  Ellen: This may sound like a dumb thing, but those of you who've ever had a big loss can kind of understand it.
• 20:10
  Ellen: I just decided, I'm gonna get a different tablecloth for Christmas.
• 20:15
  Ellen: Which sounds like a dumb thing, but it just made it feel...
• 20:19
  Ellen: like a little different because there was still going to be an empty chair.
• 20:22
  Cheryl (2): That's true
• 20:23
  Ellen: But by having a different tablecloth and kind of doing it a little differently kind of helped.
• 20:30
  Ellen: But there's no, there's nothing you have to go through the pain.
• 20:35
  Ellen: of the empty chair for quite a few years sometimes depending on where the loss falls, who it is, and things like that.
• 20:42
  Ellen: And you just have to, you know, help your family work through it and hopefully talk about it even if it's painful because that's how you work through things is through talking.
• 20:52
  Cheryl (2): And I appreciate the fact Ellen that you and I could talk about it together because our Bill
• 20:59
  Ellen: And
• 21:00
  Cheryl (2): your John died just within months of each other.
• 21:04
  Cheryl: And so We both experienced the grief together, the horrible grief of the same calendar.
• 21:11
  Cheryl: And this is the first Thanksgiving.
• 21:13
  Cheryl: This is the first Christmas.
• 21:14
  Cheryl: And all of it, it was, so I would encourage any of our listeners, don't keep yourself isolated.
• 21:21
  Cheryl: Right.
• 21:21
  Cheryl: You know, last year was your first year, Christy, without your dad.
• 21:25
  Cheryl: And, um, To keep talking to others about it, because grief is real, and if you think, well, what's wrong with me that I can't just move on?
• 21:36
  Cheryl: Because grief means you love somebody.
• 21:39
  Cheryl: It means that you have a hole in your life that that person filled.
• 21:44
  Cheryl: And so, reach out.
• 21:46
  Cheryl: Find people.
• 21:47
  Cheryl: If you don't
• 21:47
  Cheryl (2): have a friend find a counselor, or go talk to someone your pastor or somebody, so that you are, Able to express how you feel, or at least have somebody put their arm around you and say, I'm sorry.
• 22:01
  Cheryl: And it's going to be
• 22:02
  Ellen: miserable.
• 22:03
  Ellen: That's the harsh reality, is it's going to be miserable.
• 22:07
  Ellen: And it's just part of the grieving process that you have to walk through it.
• 22:11
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 22:11
  Ellen: You know, you can't get away and get around it.
• 22:14
  Ellen: No.
• 22:14
  Ellen: Whatever you're going to do.
• 22:16
  Ellen: You know, one thing that surprised me a lot was, um, because Mike and I've traveled quite a bit, um, and we've taken cruises.
• 22:23
  Ellen: But so I could always tell because I get up, especially the year that we lost John, we took, I think, at least one cruise.
• 22:29
  Ellen: Yes.
• 22:30
  Ellen: And I can remember early in the morning, there were all these women out on the deck.
• 22:35
  Ellen: And it dawned on me, these are all women who've widows because they were a little bit older than me.
• 22:40
  Ellen: But people are doing their grieving in a distracted environment.
• 22:45
  Ellen: But in the silence of the deck in the early morning are all these sad people as I was up there too, you know, and I looked around, I went, Oh, we're on the same boat.
• 22:55
  Cheryl: We did the same thing.
• 22:56
  Cheryl: We found things to kind of distract us.
• 22:59
  Cheryl: We didn't change too many of our celebration things like, well, let's have different
• 23:04
  Cheryl (2): food and different Christmas tree decorations.
• 23:06
  Cheryl (2): We kind of.
• 23:07
  Cheryl (2): kept some of the traditions, but we also tried to look for some things to distract.
• 23:12
  Cheryl (2): But the problem is distractions.
• 23:16
  Cheryl (2): Just
• 23:17
  Ellen: a moment.
• 23:17
  Ellen: Yeah, just a momentary thing.
• 23:19
  Ellen: so we
• 23:20
  Cheryl: want to affirm.
• 23:21
  Cheryl: Yes, it's really loss.
• 23:22
  Cheryl: And, you know, last year with your dad.
• 23:25
  Cheryl: Yeah, you kind of kept apologizing.
• 23:28
  Cheryl: This is
• 23:29
  Christie: grief.
• 23:30
  Christie: It's hard.
• 23:30
  Christie: Well, yeah, To your point, Ellen, like, it is going to be miserable, but the holidays make you feel like you should not be miserable, and I kept wanting to be happy, and I didn't know how to fix it.
• 23:43
  Christie: I didn't know how to make it not be sad, and I think I learned a lot from you ladies that, you know, it's very personal, so, You know, I like that you mentioned the tablecloth because those little things helped some those little things helped me to changing little just the environment or the order of how we did things, but then some things I wouldn't have dared wanted to change, you know, and so it's very individual, very personal, and you may not even know what you need until you step the wrong direction.
• 24:13
  Christie: You're like, Oh, no, this has to be the same.
• 24:15
  Christie: This is very important to me.
• 24:17
  Christie: For me, leading up to the holidays, that first year was The anticipation of how am I going to feel was harder than the actual day.
• 24:26
  Christie: Yeah.
• 24:27
  Christie: When I actually got to it, obviously it was hard, but I had so much anxiety about how to make it the best case scenario and trying, you know, especially for my kids and I don't know.
• 24:40
  Christie: I just think the whole thing is just a mess.
• 24:43
  Christie: It's just hard.
• 24:43
  Ellen: Well, we're not, in our culture, and this can almost be another podcast, we're not taught how to grieve.
• 24:48
  Ellen: No.
• 24:48
  Ellen: You know, it's something.
• 24:50
  Ellen: You You know, everybody's whisked off to the hospital or everything's at a distance.
• 24:54
  Ellen: And so you go back a hundred years, everyone knew how to grieve.
• 24:57
  Ellen: They saw the widow or the widower in black.
• 25:00
  Ellen: They knew how to treat them tenderly.
• 25:02
  Ellen: Nowadays, there's no outward sign that we're grieving.
• 25:06
  Ellen: And so, you know, cause that's.
• 25:08
  Ellen: That's one of the things that struck me is that, you know, oh, in the olden days when you wore black, then everybody treated you just a little more tenderly or understood if you were distracted or whatever.
• 25:18
  Ellen: But nowadays, we just put on our clothes and step outside.
• 25:21
  Ellen: We may be dying inside, but nobody else knows and we may get forgetful and they yell at us because we didn't do something
• 25:28
  Christie: right.
• 25:28
  Christie: Yeah.
• 25:29
  Christie: Society puts so much expectation on us to just get back in the game so quickly.
• 25:34
  Cheryl: So.
• 25:34
  Cheryl: You know, what we're saying is it doesn't fix it,
• 25:37
  Cheryl (2): but like you said, talking with us helped and our discussions over the years, it really does help.
• 25:44
  Cheryl: So, one of the things I think is really important, I'd like to emphasize, is talk with your kids about it.
• 25:50
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 25:51
  Cheryl: Now, the little ones aren't going to understand as much.
• 25:54
  Cheryl: But to talk about it because they're feeling the loss.
• 25:57
  Cheryl: I know.
• 25:58
  Cheryl: Particularly my children.
• 25:59
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 25:59
  Cheryl: We all knew.
• 26:00
  Cheryl: And, uh.
• 26:01
  Cheryl: It's the elephant in the room.
• 26:02
  Cheryl: It was the elephant in the room.
• 26:04
  Cheryl: And I like to say, I know this is really hard.
• 26:08
  Cheryl: And the present seems, it's empty, all the stuff.
• 26:11
  Cheryl (2): mm-Hmm.
• 26:11
  Cheryl (2): to keep up the conversations.
• 26:13
  Cheryl (2): Yeah.
• 26:13
  Cheryl (2): It is true.
• 26:15
  Ellen: On a little bit different note, the holidays, it's always hard when things change.
• 26:20
  Ellen: But it might change for the better in that you get a new daughter in law or son in law or new grandchild or whatever.
• 26:26
  Ellen: And especially with a new in law coming into your family, um, I think it's really important And again, it depends on the person to make sure you know what they like and what they want.
• 26:37
  Ellen: And I always made it, you know, what do you guys, what did you do at your family, especially if they live away?
• 26:42
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 26:42
  Ellen: You know, what did you guys do in your family that made it special or what was a favorite food you liked?
• 26:48
  Ellen: And tried to make sure that the in law children felt like, okay, they could come and relax and enjoy the holidays
• 26:55
  Christie: and especially if they're missing out on their family's holiday to be at yours.
• 27:00
  Christie: Yes.
• 27:00
  Christie: You know, it's something to be mindful of.
• 27:02
  Christie: It Last Thanksgiving was my son in law's first Thanksgiving at our house, and they live a thousand miles away, so there's no doing both holidays.
• 27:09
  Christie: Um, and, you know, I just tried to ask his favorite dessert and texted his mom and grandmoms and asked what, what would make it Thanksgiving?
• 27:18
  Christie: Thankfully, it was, they have a pretty similar setup to us, but you know, if there's some kind of special thing that they would be missing out on.
• 27:25
  Christie: He likes tofu baked in the oven with chocolate sauce.
• 27:28
  Christie: For my son in law, I would have figured it out.
• 27:34
  Cheryl: I love the intentional kindness of that because it is hard.
• 27:38
  Cheryl: If you come into
• 27:39
  Cheryl (2): a family celebration that's been going on for 20 plus years.
• 27:44
  Cheryl: Right.
• 27:44
  Cheryl: And this is what we do and how we've done it.
• 27:47
  Cheryl: I don't want them to feel nose pressed up against the glass, watching and feeling like they're children.
• 27:54
  Ellen: I had one of our in law children say to me, Your family was so close.
• 27:59
  Ellen: I didn't think I could get in.
• 28:01
  Ellen: And she, she didn't mean it like we were being mean to her.
• 28:04
  Ellen: But there was just a closeness there that we didn't think about it.
• 28:08
  Ellen: And she was one of the first in law children.
• 28:11
  Ellen: Yeah,
• 28:11
  Christie: I think it is important to be really mindful of how that feels.
• 28:15
  Christie: And even if you're not The parent, you know, like if you have a new sister in law or brother in law, my, so my son in law, you know, he's our first in law, son in law.
• 28:25
  Christie: And we have four girls.
• 28:26
  Christie: So he's the only male, plus my mom and that makes another layer of, you know, the inside jokes aren't always funny or in that kind of thing.
• 28:35
  Christie: So yeah, this is good to think
• 28:37
  Cheryl (2): about.
• 28:38
  Cheryl (2): It's like You said, Christy, about inside jokes, that.
• 28:43
  Cheryl (2): The parents listening, and that we as the adults, to be sensitive of too much inside jokes, and too much, well this is the way we all do it, and you're just going to be like stapled onto it, and we're trying to, Here's your chair.
• 28:57
  Cheryl: Yes, yes.
• 28:59
  Cheryl: You know, uh, you're not going to mess with this, but to embrace the wonderful evolution, because.
• 29:05
  Cheryl: Family's supposed to be about loving and these holidays are supposed to be about loving.
• 29:10
  Christie: Maybe people can think through ahead of time.
• 29:13
  Christie: And so something that might segregate the, the family dynamics at all, you might be mindful to say, Hey, why don't you make sure to get the plate?
• 29:23
  Christie: You know, nobody ever lies or, you know, whatever the thing is, it's familiar and think your family culture that might not be in someone
• 29:30
  Cheryl: else's.
• 29:31
  Cheryl: I love that the mindfulness.
• 29:33
  Cheryl: to think ahead of time.
• 29:35
  Cheryl: What an excellent idea.
• 29:37
  Christie: Yeah, I wish I would have had it.
• 29:38
  Christie: I wish I would have had it before.
• 29:42
  Cheryl: This is good.
• 29:43
  Cheryl: And our time is over.
• 29:45
  Cheryl: There's so many other...
• 29:46
  Cheryl: Aspects, we could talk about this.
• 29:49
  Cheryl: So as we wrap up this series and particularly talking about the hard things that we brought up today, what would y'all conclude with this?
• 29:58
  Cheryl: What would y'all say to our audience?
• 30:02
  Christie: I think kind of thought I've been having the last three or four holiday seasons, just kids moving away and marrying and losing my dad and all of that is just fighting for joy.
• 30:10
  Christie: And, and looking for what joy is here in and looking for the places that I can have, not just contentment, but joy and, and.
• 30:21
  Christie: Um, enjoying those things rather than looking at all the losses,
• 30:25
  Cheryl: which is what Thanksgiving and Christmas are about, I mean, or looking
• 30:30
  Ellen: at the list of all the stuff there is to do, right?
• 30:33
  Ellen: Because I can get, yeah, yeah, I was already thinking about that.
• 30:36
  Ellen: I was like, Oh, because it's always at my house and everybody brings stuff, but it's still the, uh,
• 30:43
  Cheryl: yeah.
• 30:44
  Cheryl: What would you say to do about that?
• 30:46
  Ellen: Well, I.
• 30:48
  Ellen: My golden rule is I do what I want to do in terms of enjoyment, and then I invite everybody else.
• 30:55
  Ellen: Here's what we need done.
• 30:57
  Ellen: I'm supplying the turkey and the mashed potatoes.
• 30:59
  Ellen: Y'all bring whatever you want to bring.
• 31:01
  Ellen: You're in charge of the rest of the stuff.
• 31:03
  Ellen: Talk amongst yourselves so everybody knows that everybody doesn't bring cranberries, you know, and so So just, you know, finding things that I like to do because there's still lots of things I like to do, but our family's gotten so big, we kind of have to do it in shifts, you know, just because it's just huge.
• 31:19
  Christie: Yeah, I think that's a great, that's the prerogative of the host.
• 31:21
  Christie: If I have to mop my floor for you guys twice because I'll have to mop it again when you leave.
• 31:26
  Christie: Yes.
• 31:27
  Christie: Then I'm going to, I'm going to pick the things that are easiest and most joyful for me to do.
• 31:31
  Christie: My husband
• 31:31
  Ellen: always gets mad at me because I won't mop the floor before everyone comes over.
• 31:35
  Ellen: Unless it's somebody I don't know very well.
• 31:37
  Ellen: And I go, why?
• 31:39
  Ellen: After five minutes with 20 extra people in here, it doesn't matter
• 31:45
  Christie: anyway.
• 31:46
  Christie: All the feet cover all the spots before
• 31:48
  Cheryl (2): long.
• 31:48
  Cheryl (2): And Ellen, you're not saying be selfish about it.
• 31:51
  Cheryl (2): No.
• 31:51
  Cheryl (2): You're saying be mindful and look for joy and that we don't have to meet somebody else's list of expectations to, I would say, wrap a box up of expectations and throw it in the trash and then let it go and choose to love and embrace what we have and find the joy in all of it.
• 32:15
  Ellen: And simplify.
• 32:16
  Ellen: Simplify our expectations.
• 32:18
  Ellen: Simplify our emotions.
• 32:19
  Ellen: Simplify what we're doing.
• 32:21
  Ellen: Right.
• 32:22
  Cheryl: So I encourage all of our listeners, look for joy and throw away the expectations and then have good conversations instead of letting it all...
• 32:34
  Cheryl: percolate under the surface, have the good conversations.
• 32:38
  Cheryl: Yeah, that is so good, Cheryl Okay, wonderful.
• 32:42
  Cheryl: You'll be listening to this in the middle of the holiday season.
• 32:45
  Cheryl: So let's just take a moment to say we're so thankful for you, our listening audience, and delighted with what we've been able to do through TPP with you, and we wish you joy.
• 32:59
  Cheryl: and fullness of heart and a lightful time with the people
• 33:02
  Cheryl (2): You love
• 33:03
  Christie: Absolutely
• 33:04
  Ellen: Yeah
• 33:06
  Cheryl: So parents As always, remember, hang in there.
• 33:09
  Cheryl: Keep loving, keep persevering because it's worth it.
• 33:19
  Closing the curtain on our holiday miniseries, I'd like to offer a peek behind the scenes.
• 33:26
  While our recordings often end on a cheerful note, discussing topics of loss and pain can be serious to members of our audience and aren't taken lightly, and it weighed heavy on us.
• 33:40
  I want to take this opportunity and let you know.
• 33:44
  That even though we're not face-to-face, you, our audience are very real to us and we genuinely care.
• 33:53
  So, so if you are struggling, especially during this key season, let me encourage you, reach out to somebody and as always, you can get in touch with us.
• 34:07
  On our website through social media or contact@theparentingpodcast.com.
• 34:15
  We do really wish all of you a warm and meaningful time with your families and loved ones over the holidays, and we will be taking off to do the same, but look forward to being back with you.
• 34:27
  to start off entire new year of TPP episodes.
• 34:33
  Please be sure to join us as we dive back into those conversations to bring you help and hope on your parenting journey.
• 34:41
  Now I want to close with the reason why all of us here at the Parenting Podcast can talk about hope and joy even amidst loss.
• 34:51
  and pain and grief.
• 34:54
  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.