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Crosswalk Talk: Celebrity Christian Interviews - Open the Eyes of My Heart Was Track Eight and He Had No Idea · LifeAudio

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Life audio hey paul thanks for joining me hi michael
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: good to be here thank you dove winning singer and
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: songwriter all the lush is our guest today you have
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: written so many songs paul i'll name a few of
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: them here open the eyes of my heart above all
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: hosanna i love those three you have a new album
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: as well that's why i wanted to have you on
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: yes we believe recorded live at a church in dallas
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: i want to talk about your career in songwriting but
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: let's talk about the album first what was your goal
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: with the new album and why name it Yes We Believe?
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Good question. What was my goal? You know, I've been
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: with Integrity now 30 years, and the goal has always been,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: you know, as a worship pastor, I find that a
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: lot of worship songs oftentimes kind of rise up or
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: begin in the midst of worship time, maybe a Friday
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: night prayer meeting or a Sunday morning. There's sometimes a
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: phrase that comes out of your mouth in the midst
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: of leading worship, or you hear someone pray. a certain
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: phrase and you're like, Ooh, Ooh, that's, that's me. That
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: could be potentially something that we sing. So the goal
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: would be, it was the same to this project was
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: the opportunity to just sort of take some of those
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: songs that have collected over the last couple of years
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: and try to choose the best ones. And, you know,
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: kind of where do I want to do this? I'm
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: not on staff at a church at this season, like
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: I was for, for 25 years, like I said, um,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: So this was an opportunity, Christ for the Nations. It's
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: been there 70 years, and they have students from 50
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: different nations. And that got me excited, the possibility of
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: working with next generation kids that are excited about the Lord,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: pursuing the Lord, pursuing education from nations around the world.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: And I thought, yeah, let's move toward this. So it
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: turned out to be a perfect place to do a
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: live recording with a lot of the band members or
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: guys I've played with for over two decades. We've toured places,
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: you know, from India to Malaysia and Singapore, Korea, South Africa,
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: you know, just dear friends. So it just meant a
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: lot to do. And also live, there's something dynamic about
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: a live experience. And yes, we believe the bottom line
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: is real quick that the songwriting, the song itself, him
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: about in a conversation with the co-writer, and he was
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: just in conversation, said something like, you know, blah, blah, blah, but,
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: you know, do we really believe, you know, that it's
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: going to be this or that? And after he finished,
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: I said, you know, that's an interesting phrase. You said,
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: do we really believe? Like, that would actually be a
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: good beginning to a song. Like, do we really believe
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: in a man named Jesus, that he died to save
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: us on a Roman cross? Do we really believe in
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: the resurrection, in a place called heaven that waits for us.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Do we really believe so? It just became kind of
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: like an inventory of like, what do we really believe?
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Maybe from a new believer to a mature believer, you know, like, huh.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: So anyway, of course, the response on the chorus had
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: to be, yes, yes, we believe, you know, so.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: It's kind of a declaration. That's a declaration for the
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: audience there, I guess. It's kind of a declaration in
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: a secular society, kind of like Daniel in his friends
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: there in Babylon. I don't know. I don't know if
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: I'm pushing there, but it seems like that's kind of
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: what it is with me. What was the audience? Was
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: it cross section of the church or was it mostly students?
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Good cross section. A lot of young people, all of
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: the students were there. I don't know if they had
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: to be there, but it was again, quite beautiful to
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: look out. Some of them sort of brought along their
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: nation's flag, you know, so it was interesting throughout the
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: night to see certain flags at times. And, just sort
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: of a reminder that every nation, tribe, and tongue, as Revelation,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: the book of Revelation describes, worshiping the Lord. And there
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: was just a lot of youthful energy. The church that
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: I was at for all those years in Texas, it
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: was close to a YWAM, Youth with a Mission base,
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: and teen mania. And so I've always loved and you
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: kind of feed off of just that, that young 20 something,
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: just met the Lord, just got to know the Lord,
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: reaching out, pressing into God. So, yeah. And then there was,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: in addition to that, of course, a lot of folks
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: from just the, they call the Metroplex.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The Metroplex. I know what you're talking about. So
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: how did you choose what tracks have been on this album? Some,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: some of them are ones that I've, I've loved for years.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Stand it all to him has sits on the throne.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: I think some of them are newer than that. So, yeah.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: So interesting that you mentioned those because they were not intended.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: You know, it was pretty much all new songs. And
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: yet in the midst of rehearsing for a day or two,
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: we sort of get to the end of this one
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: song that was very much written around the book of
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Revelation and really a picture of, yeah, to him, to him,
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: to him who sits on the throne. And when we
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: finish that, of course, that's a direct verse in the Bible.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: When we finished that song, it was just like this
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: holy hush. And I just, we were in that key
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: and we're just kind of staying there. And I just
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: could hear, to him who sits on the throne. And
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: eventually asked the worship leader at Christ for the Nations
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: to lead that. Maria, her name is. She's from Nigeria.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: And boy, when she sings, there's something really deep and
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: special there. So that became like, let's do that tomorrow night.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: During the recording, let's see what happens. So I love, again,
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: that's what I love about a live project is you're
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: leading worship, but you're open to anything could happen. You know,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: anything we may, we could go into this old course
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: or we could just stay here and we could repeat
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: that or we could do an acapella moment or so. Yeah,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: I love live recordings. One of my first ones that
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: I really fell in love with, there's a couple actually,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Hillsong had one years ago, like one of the first ones.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: that Darlene Check came out with. And then Michael W.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Smith had a couple that were so good. And so
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: I love, love live recordings. There's something powerful about it.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: It's almost indescribable, really. Two of your more popular songs
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: were Above All, which was covered by Michael W. Smith,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: and Open the Eyes of My Heart. I always like
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: asking songwriters who saw something grow bigger than they thought
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: it could ever be, what they thought when they wrote it.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: So when you were writing these two songs, Above All
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: and Open the Eyes of My Heart, I mean, they
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: might be years apart, but when you were writing those songs,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: did you have a sense they could become bigger than
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: the average song?
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: Not necessarily, to be honest, especially Open the Eyes. And
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: the proof is it was on my second live album
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: I did with Integrity Music. And it was song, you know,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: that's when we had cassettes and CDs. And it's song
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: number eight. So out of like 14 songs, there's something
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: in me that said, oh, let's make sure we do
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: this one. Yeah, this feels like we should probably put
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: this on the record. You know, if I had known
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: that the song would resonate with people as much as
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: it has, then I probably would have, like, put it
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: first or second, entitled the album, Open the Eyes of
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: My Heart. So I think that's proof that I think
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: at the time it was just one of many songs,
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: you know, there was a real fervent prayer movement happening
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: in our church. A lot of times, you know, Friday
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: nights as a worship band were just There was no
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: tracks or anything like that. We're just playing and providing
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: some background music and familiar choruses as people are praying.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: And then so often just that phrase I had for
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: a couple of years, open the eyes of my heart.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: It's from Ephesians 1.18. But, you know, Lord, we want
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: to see you. God, open our eyes. God, to see
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: you high and lifted up. God, pour out your power
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: and your love. You know, those were the kinds of prayers.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Pour out your Holy Spirit, Jesus. We call out to you,
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: you know. So it wasn't like, you know, sitting down,
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: I'm going to write a song. It was more of a,
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: almost a byproduct, just an unction and cry of the heart.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: And then quickly, above all, I always sort of had
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: a place in the back of my journal as the
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: last page for any like title ideas, song title possibilities,
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: even in a conversation like this, or maybe a sermon
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: or whatever. Being in a prayer meeting, I'd hear something
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: and go, oh, that could be an interesting song title, maybe.
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  Speaker 2: So I would always keep that. So I remember sitting
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: down in my little church there on Tuesday morning and
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: just opening up that and looking at some of the
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: titles and thought, above all, above all. And I just
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: remember thinking, what could I say about the Lord or
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: to the Lord with that phrase? You know, you're above all,
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: you're above all. kingdoms and you're above all powers you're
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: above all all education and wealth and treasures and so
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: I just began kind of writing down some of those
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: things that our culture esteems and it's like just to
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: declare that began to become clear like oh it'd be
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: cool to to write a song that just sort of
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: declares you're above all of this and you're above all
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: you know etc and then I ended up after playing
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: with that for a not two weeks straight, sitting at
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: the piano. But that's how songwriting works. You kind of
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: get a good start. And then an hour, I got
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: to go pick up my son from soccer practice or something.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: But it's in the back of your mind and you're prayerfully,
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: you know, it's bouncing around. And I had a different
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: chorus for that. And we sang it at our church
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: for about a year. And it was almost a shout
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: to the Lord kind of a chorus. You know, there's
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: no way to measure what's you were. And then it
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: was like a real, but every time we sang it,
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: I just felt like something in my heart was like,
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: I think there's a better chorus.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: I think there's, I really believe in this A section.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: So bottom line is I kind of pulled it off the,
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: out of rotation. And a few months later, Happened to
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: meet with Lenny LeBlanc, an old friend that, you know,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: we hadn't seen each other in a while. Spent the
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: night at his house and kind of, let's try to
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: work on a few songs. I threw out some ideas
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: and he wasn't crazy. Threw out just that above all section.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: And he was like, let me mess with that. And
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: the next morning he had that first line. What do
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: you think of that? Like, there's no way to measure
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: what you were. And crucified, laid behind a stone. You know,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: you lived. to die, rejected. And so then we, you know,
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: jumped in there probably in 20 minutes, pretty much wrote itself.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: And we were filled with emotion. We could just feel
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: the emotion of just, Lord, you know, whatever. Your brain
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: isn't immediately like, oh, this might catch on someday or
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: be on a CD. It's more of just like, wow, like, Lord,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: receive this worship, receive this praise. God, you're, you know,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: it really felt like that. So I'm sorry it's a
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: long answer, but.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: That's an amazing answer. So above all, it began with
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: a different tune that you sang at your church for
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: a year. And then you thought, no, it needs to
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: be a little different. That's a great story. I always
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: think a song is a song when it gets its
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: own Wikipedia page. Both of these have their own Wikipedia pages.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: That means nothing to you. But I think that's always funny. Paul,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: what was the first song that you wrote that really
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: became big, though? I don't think it was these two.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: It was years before that. So what was your first
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: big one?
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question. You know, like big, it's
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: hard to, you know, to find big per se. I
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: know what you mean. It's a fair question. Again, I'm
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: a worship leader at this little non-denominational church, kind of
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: a YWAM kind of church. It's very loose. It was very,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: it's a great place to sort of grow as a
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: worship leader. There was a lot of grace. It was
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: all volunteers. So there was a lot of, um, Well.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Let me rephrase the question. What was the first song
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: you wrote that was sung outside your church by other people? Yeah, good.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: Good.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Thanks. It was on the first Integrity album I did
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: with them, a live album called He Is Faithful. And
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: the first song was called I Love To Be In
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Your Presence. And that really gave me a taste of
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: writing songs. I just finished a song in the key
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: of G. It was like, woo, yeah. All right, Lord,
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: we've And just out of my mouth came, Lord, we
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: love to be in your presence, just with your people,
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: just singing praises. And as that came out of my mouth,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: it was one of the first times I had ever
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: gone and said, hey, I don't know, it sounds like
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: a song. I said on the mic, like, and I
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: looked at my drummer, it was like, I was like,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: just follow me here. I was like, I don't know,
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: let's just sing that little phrase together. Love to be
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: in your presence with your people singing praises. I didn't
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: have words for that. And then, you know, so it
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: was the kind of church that was like, yeah, sure,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: let's do it. And I clapped along and eventually finished
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: the song, writing it, you know, over the next week
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: or two with Ed Carr, our piano player. And that
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: was the first song on our first album I ever
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: did with Integrity. And that song got translated into Spanish
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: quickly and it was sung all over Latin America and
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: really caught on in the U.S. Now it's not as popular.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: A lot of folks may not have heard that, but
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: That was a kind of a taste of, also on
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: that album, it was the first live version of Lord,
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: I lift your name on high. And there'd never been
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: a live worship version. It was still pretty new. And
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: most of the songs on that album I had written,
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: but not that one. So for years, people would think, oh,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: I love your songs, especially Lord, I lift your name
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: on high. And I'd be like, I'll tell the author
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: you said that, you know, I'll pass that along. But Anyway,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: that was a taste, and then the next album opened
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: the eyes of my heart, and there were some other
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: songs on there as well.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you a question that's often debated, and
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: I know you've thought about this a lot, but what
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: makes a song a worship song? Is it the lyrics?
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Is it the heart behind it? Is it whether the
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: congregation can sing it? Is it all of those things?
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: what makes a song a worship song?
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: Probably all of those would be included in the definition.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: And you're very good, Michael. Who is to say for sure?
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: I guess just off the top of my head, my
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: instinct is a song that feels like you're singing a
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: prayer to the Lord. Of course, worship songs can be much,
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: you know, that's such a narrow definition. But for me,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: even as a songwriter, when I'm finishing a song, I
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: ask myself, you know, does this feel like an authentic prayer?
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Does this feel and sound like a sincere, authentic prayer
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: to the Lord? And to me, that feels like a
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: worship song or a praise song. Now, there are songs
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: where we sing about the Lord, you know, we're like, hey,
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: let's stand together and we love, you know, about the Lord.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: And then there's songs to the Lord. So I guess
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: all of those can fall under the category of a
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: worship song. But I know that's a question. I don't
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: know if we'll ever have a definitive answer, but that's
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: my take is that, does it feel like you're singing
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: a prayer? Okay.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: I'm just curious how, you know, we have this genre
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: in Christian music right now, and it seems like it
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: lacks a definition and everybody has their own definition, which
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: is fine because it's, it's, it's difficult to, I think biblically,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: it's kind of difficult to define in the first place.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Like you said, it could have a lot of definitions.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: And so, yeah, that, That's an interesting topic. Are there
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: any songs that you thought would be big that didn't
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: go big? Once again, that you thought, this is so good,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: but other people didn't like it as much as you
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: liked it. Right.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: I would say, yes, there's at least a handful of
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: songs over the years, talking many years, that I had
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: this feeling like, man, this feels like it's really going
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: to resonate with people. You know, it's really going to.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: I think they'll grab onto it quickly and it could be,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: it feels like a prayer they might want to sing
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: to the Lord. And quite often I'm wrong. I was
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: wrong most of the time. Maybe one other example, you
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: may have heard the song, Your Name. Your name is
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: a strong and mighty tower. Your name. And that was
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: a song written right from scripture. It came really quick
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: and I immediately demoed that. And I was surprised how...
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: I was almost not surprised that I remember we finished
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: that with Glenn Packham. He's a pastor now in Southern California.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: But it was just him and I in a room.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: We're reading scripture out loud, just kind of prayerfully. And that,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: as morning dawns and evening fades. Bottom line, the song
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: was done in 20 minutes. And there was a sense like,
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: I think people are going to connect with this. And
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: I would say I probably sing that song anytime I
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: do a.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: Night of worship.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: And people... people love to sing that. So I'm, I'm,
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: I'm grateful. That's the goal is to try to write
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: songs that people can say, Oh, this feels like a
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: prayer to the Lord, you know?
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: But what, what does that tell you though? Cause you've
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: had songs that you didn't think would go big that did.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: And then what songs that you thought would be, would
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: resonate worldwide and, and did not. I mean, is that,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: is there a lesson? Is there a spiritual lesson there
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: about what God breathes all in?
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Great question is I have no idea. And most of
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: us have no idea. There's really not a formula as
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: much as we would like to think there is. I
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: think just showing up with your loaves and fishes, that's
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: always like this mental image I have is like, you know,
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: we don't know if this whatever we write today is
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: going to resonate and really connect with people all over
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: the world. We have no control over that. But we
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: do have control over showing up. We can show up
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: with some ideas and open up the scriptures and and
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: maybe ideas that we've got from sermons that we've heard,
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: or podcasts, or even above all, it's funny, I think,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: where did I get that? Occasionally, I'll see a commercial,
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: even like a drug commercial, and it'll be like, oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: it has these benefits and that, but above all, it blah, blah, blah, blah,
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: you know, it'll help with your indigestion, and every once
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: in a while, I'll see a commercial where they'll like say,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: but above all, and I'll go, hey, I mean, I
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: don't even remember where that title came from, but it
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: could have been from a commercial, but the point is
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: collecting these inspired ideas and then making time showing up
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: to kind of prayerfully sing these ideas to the Lord
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: and see if, you know, maybe you get another line
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: and maybe there's a phrase or, Oh, this makes me
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: think of a scripture or someone, let me go to
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: that scripture.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: And, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: And so it's a mystery, you know, and that's the,
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: That's the joy. It's almost fishing-like. You show up with
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: your rod and your reel and your aster. But you
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: don't know if you'll catch anything or not. But at
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: least you showed up. And if you don't show up,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: you're definitely not going to catch anything. Yeah.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: If God breathes on it, it works. That's the answer.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: That's the answer. But you never know what God's going
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: to breathe on it from your side. What advice? You've
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: been in this business for decades, this ministry for decades.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Maybe I should rephrase it. What advice would you give
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: today's Christian singers, those who are well-known and those who
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: want to do what? you've done for a living? What
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: advice would you give them?
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: It'd be good to know if you're called. Are you
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: part of a fellowship and are there people in your
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: life who have sort of affirmed that there's a calling
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: on your life? You may love to sing, you may
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: love to do this, but actually maybe your primary gift
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: is administration, or it might be sales, or it might be,
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: you know, some kind of legal or technical mind where you,
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: are you called? It's interesting. I'm not prepared for that question,
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: but that's the first thing that comes to mind. You know,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: it says in 1 Chronicles that David appointed the Levites.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: They were appointed and they would, says in 1 Chronicles 25,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: that they were trained and skilled in music for the Lord.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: So that implies that if you do feel called, then
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: make sure you're putting in the time and effort. You
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: be trained and skilled. Make sure you're practicing every day,
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: whatever that might be, vocally, keyboards, guitar, you know, just
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: doing that consistently. So that's the skill part. Psalm 33.3 says,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: play skillfully. And it doesn't say, just play. Just play.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. Just play. No, play skillfully if you're called.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: But you want to make sure at the same time
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: you're cultivating a sincere, authentic, devotional life. with Jesus, that
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: you're in the scriptures, that you are in a group
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: of people, could be a small group, could be a handful,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: hopefully a part of a larger group, but a few
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: close friends who are pursuing God in the way that
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: you want to pursue the Lord and, you know, meet
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: for prayer, meet for Bible study, hang out. It's so important.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: We can't do this by ourselves. We need to surround
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: ourselves with other people that are fervent and sincere in
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: their pursuit of the Lord.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Final question for you then. You discussed just then what
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: advice you would give potential Christian singers or those who
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: want to get in this ministry. What about those who
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: are already on stage and maybe give them some lessons
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: you've learned over the past several decades of doing what
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: you've done?
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Great question. Again, off the top of my head, I
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: think there's sometimes we see these YouTube videos and everybody
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: looks amazing. They sound amazing. They're just like, then I
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: would go back to my little church in Texas and
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: we're all volunteers. And, you know, different age groups. I
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: think we will never look like that. We'll never be
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: as cool as that YouTube situation there. So part of
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: it is taking stock of who you are and believing
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: and trusting how God made you and not feeling like
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: you have to be like this person. You can be
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: inspired by the singer or inspired by that person. But
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: if you try to be Phil Wickham, that's going to
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: be weird. Be the most authentic version of yourself. And
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: I think that happens when you're in the midst of
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: a healthy fellowship environment, as I just mentioned earlier, where
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: you're growing in the Lord and don't feel like you
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: have to put on some presentation, performative thing. Yes, practice
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: and play well and all that, but be who you are.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Be that person. Be the most authentic version of yourself. Yeah, so...
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: If I came to your house and knocked on your door,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: you would be like, hey, what's up, Paul?
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: How you doing?
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: Praise the Lord.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: You guys ready to worship the Lord? Yeah.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like, I don't think so.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: I think you'd be more, hey, good morning. Hey, thanks
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: for being here. Good morning. Hey, let's stand together. Like,
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: whatever best authentic version of yourself. I keep coming back
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: to that, I guess, is don't try to be like
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: these other people. Trust how the Lord made you and
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: be that. be the best version of that too. You know,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: you don't want to get up there and be like,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: if you had a bad week, you know, tell everybody
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: about your bad week. You know, you can say, hey,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: good morning. Let's stand together. We're going to worship the Lord.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: And some of you may have had a difficult week.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Maybe some of you had a mountaintop week, you know,
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: but nonetheless, either way, let's sing our prayers to the
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Lord this morning. And I'd begin that first song and boom,
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: you know, anyway, that's my advice.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: That is good advice. I love that advice. Be authentic.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: I think the next generation wants authenticity, and I think
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: that's what you're saying there. The album is Yes, We Believe.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: We've been talking to Paul Belash. Paul, thanks so much.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Michael. Thank you for your time.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: If you enjoyed today's interview, please make sure to subscribe
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: and share the episode with a friend. A big thanks
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: to the team at Life Audio for their partnership with
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: us on the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio.com, you
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: will find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts and their network.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: See you next time.