Latest / Making Medicine / Winning the Drug Development Relay Race w/ Johannes Fruehauf

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Winning the Drug Development Relay Race w/ Johannes Fruehauf · Making Medicine

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You need what we call knowledgeable capital. People who are willing and understanding of
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the risks that goes in, who don't write you a check because they like
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you, but who write you a check because they believe in you and they
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understand what you're proposing to do. You're listening to Making Medicine Stories from the
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Early Stage life sciences Ecosystem, a podcast that explores the people and deals that
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have led to the medicines, devices and technologies that keep us healthy. Let's
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get into the show. This is John Stanford. You're a regular host of
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the Making Medicine podcast, and today I'd like to welcome Johanness fru House,
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friend of the Incubate Coalition. He's co founder and general partner of Mission BioCapital,
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CEO of Biolabs, and co founder of lab Central. Simply put,
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if you're in the sciences early stage ecosystem, you probably know Johanness and the
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great work that he and his colleagues have done. He's also the author of
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over thirty your review publications and named inventor on nine patents, and previously was
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a physician after studying medicine in both Germany and France. So from any angle
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Johannes, it is great to have you on the show. So thrilled that
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you were able to join us. You know, you wear a lot of
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different hats from being a VC Permission, BioCapital, what you've done in terms
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of incubator spaces with Biolabs and lab Central, you know, welcome everyone with
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an introduction to each of these and how each organization kind of fits in with
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the others. Yeah, thank you, John, It's great to be on
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your show. And I'm glad that you're doing the work that you do,
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which is to educate people about all the work that goes into coming up with
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new drugs, because I think we need to do a much better job by
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telling that fantastic story of innovation. One small correction, While I'm not practicing,
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and you never stopped being a physician, so I still somehow self identify
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as a medical doctor. At least I'm treating my kids and my family,
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so the subject to that. Yeah, so nice to be here. And
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so in description of my different organizations, like the common theme is really to
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help scientists and entrepreneurs launch their work and get started with this important work of
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translating academic findings or innovation into products that ultimately help us and that we can
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prescribe and that we can take and that will help your patients. We do
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that through a number of organizations. The first one is Biolabs. Historically,
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the first one is biolaps. We started that about ten years ago, and
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that's a that started as a small effort in Kendall Square, Cambridge, when
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I was building a startup another one. I had launched a few and needed
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lab space and it was very expensive to have lab space and tedious to run
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to build and run your own facility. So I realized that I had a
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bunch of friends who also needed that, and we banded together and shared the
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lab space and also now shared that capability with other founders NBCs who used us
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to launch their little things. And that was initially just really a way to
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offset the cost of our own operation and merged into or evolved into a business
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that's a pretty good small business now that provides a lot of value to people.
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That's biolabs. Billabs has since grown too. I think today ten cities.
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It's a moving target because we're adding more and more labs. We're up
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and down the East coast, up and down the west coast. We've opened
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a lab in Dallas, Texas as well, and we have now opened a
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first location, first two locations in Europe with a lab in Heidelberg and an
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office and hopefully soon a lab also in Paris. Now that's Biolabs. Biolabs
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eventually caught the eye of the state of Massachusetts because we had worked he and
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they helped me set up a separate version of this which is called lab Central.
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Lab Central is incorporated as a nonprofit. We did that because we were
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able to access additional state funding by doing it as a nonprofit. So I
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run these both organizations that really do sort of the same thing. They help
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entrepreneurs launch their companies. Lab Central itself is today home to about seventy startups.
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It's all in and around Cambridge and Boston and has just launched its newest
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facility. Lab Central is currently working out of four different facilities. We've just
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launched the newest one that's called lab Central two thirty eight, where the focus
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on cell and gene therapy companies, specifically based on the observation that we had
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from many of our is that users that who are working on very innovative new
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therapies that they couldn't really find the support for process development and for manufacturing of
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these specific new technologies that are life cell therapies or gene therapies where you have
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to make vectors and produce them. And so they're central two thirty eight for
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those of you who are in the Boston areas, on two thirty eight Main
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Street in Cambridge, right next to the Kendall Square Red Line T stop in
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an old historic building and we are still finishing the build out there while we
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are running the first half of the facility. It will be one hundred thousand
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square foot facility when it's fully done in the summer, focusing on process development
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and scale up for cell and gene therapy companies. And last not least,
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I'm co founder with my partners and a general partner of Mission BioCapital, which
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is a venture capital firm headquartered in Ambridge, but with another office also in
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San Francisco, and we have partners around the country who invest in the type
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of companies that we build in the labs. So the labs are really sort
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of the main place for deal flow for us an interaction with entrepreneurs. We're
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currently investing out of Fund five that has just closed. It's a fund that
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invests that has two hundred and seventy five million dollars to manage in this current
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fund and invest in early stage seed series A series BS innovative startup companies.
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And so we're just starting, so people should look at us as a fresh
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source of capital come to us with their ideas. So I have this interesting
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perspective on things that is granted by being sort of a landlord and a partner
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to companies when they just launch, being able to connect many places physical geographic
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places and sort of conceptual places. Because we also have a lot of stakeholders
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from the pharmaceutical industry that US sponsors for the labs and are interested in these
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startups. So that's sort of the background on me, and we can go
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a little bit deep on what we do and how we do things well.
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And this is why we have to make you a regular on the podcast because
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you do have all these hats. But like you said, the common theme
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here is solving the challenges that lay out of entrepreneurs. And to anyone who
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doesn't see that, the solutions are public private partnerships. You look at Biolabs,
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a market based solution that is filling out and growing, and I think
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what you're doing in Europe is so fascinating. We'll talk about that in a
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bit. But the state also, you know, Massachusetts saw what was working
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and said we want to get in on that, and lab Central is born.
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But of course, for every entrepreneur we've ever had on the show,
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access to capital is what allows them to scale. And so I love that
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you're sort of solving this from all these different angles, particularly for the early
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stage ecosystem, and you know, we talk about that ecosystem a lot on
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this show, and the drug development process. Like you said, my role
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is really trying to educate those who aren't in the thick of it, those
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who don't know where two thirty eight is in Cambridge about the drug development process.
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Now I've stolen from you regularly when we talk to policymakers because you have
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kind of coined the concept that drug development is a relay race. Can you
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talk a little bit about that analogy, how you see your organizations fitting in.
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But big picture, what's that really race analogy that you've talked about.
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Yeah, thank you, John. Yeah, I think it's hard for people
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from the outside, but also even for many people on the inside to see
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the very complexity of the multi stage work that has to go into making a
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drug. Oftentimes we hear from founders who themselves don't fully understand that, in
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addition to their discovery of a new biologic phenomenon that happens that they discovered while
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they were graduate students or postdocs, that doesn't make a drug yet. While
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it may be a fun, fascinating new biologic concept, and maybe they even
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have a candidate molecule that could be utilized to exploit that with therapeutic benefit,
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that doesn't make it a drug yet. And there are many other stages that
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need to come on top of that, and that is part of that regulated
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process that ultimately gets us to having safe and effective drugs. We don't want
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a situation where every quack can create their own medicines, right and even though
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they might be claiming all kinds of things, that those medicines might not work.
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So instead, the process starts with a discovery, hopefully a non mechanism
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of it, then can go to develop what we call a lead candidate or
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a development candidate. These are different maturity stages of molecules or biologic concepts.
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As we validate them first in cell models and then in in vivo models of
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varying complexity, and then eventually one important transition in the maturation of these concepts
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is your first in man trial, when you either go into healthy volunteers in
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some cases or in some other indications, such as in oncology, some of
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these drugs immediately get tested in ill patients and you can potentially see a disease
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benefit right away. There are so many different components that need to go in
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in addition to the original scientific discovery. They have to do with manufacturing.
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As we already spoke about, the manufacturing of drugs is held to very very
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high quality standards and requires its very own skill set to work under these conditions.
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And oftentimes the basic discovery scientists, who maybe geniuses in their one pathway
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or the one area of biology, don't have the skills, don't have the
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equipment, don't even have the mindset for the very regulated and regulamented work that
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is the manufacturing or the regulatory side of drug development. Then we need clinical
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experts who can design effective and save clinical trials where we slowly escalate the doses
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to make sure that we don't expose patients or healthy volunteer participants to undo risk
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during these trials. And then there's the whole process of ultimately getting to approval
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and working with the regulatory agencies, in our case with the FDA or the
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EMA, to get them to review the files of the many pieces of data
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that we put in front of them and ultimately approve these drugs to be prescribed
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in the market. Also, there are business considerations that have to go in.
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As we describe this, there are dozens of people, hundreds of people
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involved in the making of one drug. That means you need to pay them.
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That means you need a lot of money. That money needs to be
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raised. There are experts in raising that money. They're experts in providing that
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money telling the story. So that's why I describe it as a relay raise.
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And so it means that one person cannot make a drug. It always
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needs a team, and in many cases it needs a team of subsequent talents
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so that it also sets the expectation. And that's sometimes a painful realization for
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the founders of the companies that the initial founders, the geniuses who have invented
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the new biology, might not be the right people to take it all the
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way we of course, one of my philosophy is to try and be as
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empowering as I can of scientists entrepreneurs. I've been one myself, and I
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had mentors who helped me along the way and taught me many things. But
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I also realize that there are still areas that I don't cover and I shouldn't
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and they're experts that we should bring into these teams. And so that's again
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the allegory of the relay races, that you passed the button onto the next
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runner who will take it to the next level, and you're still proud ultimately
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as a team to have won the race or to have made it onto the
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stairs the end. Because your drug is becoming useful in the market, the
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time it takes and the cost it takes is often underestimated by not just by
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the lay public, but also by ourselves and by other founders. We are
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all notoriously optimistic about, Yeah, we can solve this quickly. Reality has
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this nasty habit of interfering with the best lay plans. Well, I think
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a couple of things that stood out to me there. I think the time
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and money underestimated that you closed with is so right I love the way you
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put a team of subsequent talents, and I know that you've been in the
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room to possibly tell scientists that we're moving away from your brilliant discovery to a
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place where we've got to replicate this. You talked about two thirty eight and
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the focus on selling gene therapies, and that's one where manufacturing is going to
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be a whole nother skill than the concept of biology and treatment and therapy.
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And it is many different experts that have to come together, and it does
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take a lot of capital. You know, there's been some conversation about what
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players should be in the space, particularly at the end, sort of pitting
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this sense of small entrepreneurs large manufacturers, but I know that you haven't necessarily
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seen it that way In terms of the capital side. Does it make sense
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for the capital to be locked in or do you see sort of the merger
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and acquisition process as an opportunity for early capital to exit and be redeployed,
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or do we need to be thinking about tying up that money for the twenty
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years from innovation to drug deployment. That is a very interesting question, and
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I think it changes with the markets. We are seeing a period in which
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we are coming. We are just now exiting a period of a bulliance right
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and where the public markets were open and companies could raise a lot of money
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with a promise. In many cases, my view has been and continues to
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be prematurely. We saw a lot of companies go public this past a year
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and a half that frankly shouldn't have been public, and the private funders should
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have continued the work to bring it further. I also describe a drug development
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as a relay race, because in many cases there's a handover that happens between
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the entrepreneurial team that starts the company, we started with venture capital money and
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supported with nimble, quick, smart teams, and ultimately hands over that drug,
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or that concept, or the whole company to a larger pharmaceutical company that
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the for the VC you were touching upon. That that could describe an exit
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scenario in which they sell the asset for the founding team. That could be
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a very nice financial reward if they sell it, But more importantly, it's
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a reward of the effort of getting a drug advanced, right, because in
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many cases the big pharmaceutical companies are much better equipped to handle the later stages
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of the drug development process that have to do with you know, large clinical
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trials which hundreds of millions of dollars, regulatory access in various countries, so
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you have to negotiate differently with the EMA and the Chinese authorities and the Japanese
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authorities, then you have with the FDA, and so for a startup team
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to handle all of that is daunting, and so in many cases I actually
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do believe that should be and there is a very productive relationship between innovative founder
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teams and big pharmaceutical companies who, through a process caused external innovation, partner
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with those teams and can be very productive for both sides. In rare cases,
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do we see successful startups grow to mid sized companies and to big companies.
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We've seen that all recently in the case of Moderna, right like when
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Moderna is now undisputably a big pharmaceutical unity. If you look at their valuation
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and as at the impact that they've all basically helped to save the world,
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that's a big but a rare achievement. And in most cases these get handed
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over at various stages of development to the pharmaceutical side. That's not a bad
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thing at all. What we have to keep in mind is that the incentive
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for venture to support this very risky endeavor is they're investing because they're hoping for
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a return. Right. They're investing in highly risky concepts, teams and new
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candidate molecules with the hope to make it big and to make a decent return
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for themselves and for their investors. And we need to understand that interfering with
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the careful balance that has evolved in the market over decades is a big risk,
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right, Like you know that I've been vocal expressing my own concerns about
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how price controls would affect the flaw of innovation, and I I sit at
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the very point where a strong desire by venture capital to invest in these new
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concepts is needed, right else no new startups can get funding. So I
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do have strong concerns about that, and I understand that we need to not
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have drug prices explode, but at the same time, we need to put
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the right incentives or keep the right incentives, and so that venture capital can
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flow into this very innovative sector of our economy. Well, I think you
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sit right there, and I commend you that you took that advocacy helm to
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weigh in in some of these conversations because it's undisputed that you sit at the
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central point of innovation, and so I know, I again commend you on
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getting your voice out there leading others to get their voices out there, to
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say. It is a delicate balance that we have right now and one that
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is working working quite well. Another question I often get from policymakers, you
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know, with a little envy in their eyes, is how does my hometown,
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how does my city latch on to this hub of innovation? You know,
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you recently were quoted in stat in an article about how Texas is buying
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to be the next research triangle, And you know I get that from policymakers
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all the time. How do we build Kendall Square in my state? And
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you know you mentioned that there's a power of place. Talent, capital,
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culture, and infrastructure are critical. Can can you talk a little bit about
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what goes into that? How does a region attract those factors? And you
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know what role does something we haven't talked a lot about on the show foot
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Roll lab space plays and as an asset to a to a city in a
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region. Yeah, so thank you, many many factors make the ecosystem right.
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I think Boston is sort of held up high as sort of the up
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to an example of how this has come together and naturally has come together over
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the last say twenty years to be a place of high efficiency and a high
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economic output. So if we dissect the elements that contribute to Boston's success,
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I think we can learn from that, and we can try and construct those
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elements in other geographies as well. And we too get asked this question quite
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a bit from politicians in this country. But also I'm from Germany, so
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I host German delegations a lot, and European ones, and they're looking with
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envy at what Boston has and think about, Okay, what are the elements
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that we need to put in place in our hometown, in our state to
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get some of that love or get some of that benefit. Now, it's
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a very complex. We could talk for two hours separately on what are the
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various elements of a successful ecosystem, but let me highlight a few. Of
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course, it all starts with strong academic science that you cannot create this in
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a place where there's not a strong university, a teaching hospital, some research
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institutions, ideally more than one, right, ideally a concerted effort of multiple
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and even competing research institutions who will create basic science, who will also create
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some of the graded talent that you need to man these jobs. So that's
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like the number one thing that you cannot do without. But if you have
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that, that doesn't guarantee you at all that you will have a successful startup
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ecosystem. Many other elements come to it. One that's it's very close is
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the way that technology transfer is handled and whether there are policies at those universities
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that are helpful or detrimental to the spinout of ideas and to the empowerment of
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scientists who take their ideas out and develop them beyond writing a paper. Right
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as you and I know, we've all grown up in the academic world where
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academic credit is gained by writing papers or holding talks to an expert audience.
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You get impact factors for that, and ultimately that's what gets you tenure.
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Now, that doesn't help the patient. That doesn't help Grandma who's suffering from
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diabetes or from alzheimer. Only if you take these ideas further and you make
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a product out of it, will that patient see any benefit from it.
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So I'm a big advocate of releasing ideas from university and also tasking scientists who
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are supported by public funding with the challenge and the responsibility to make their science
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available to the world. And so one of the bottlenecks that we often see
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in that is the attitude and the culture at the university itself. That's cultural
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expectation, politics at the university, reward structures and recognition, but also the
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policies around technology transfer. We have seen the evolution towards best practices of technology
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transfer over the last twenty years, where I think it's now very well described
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what best tech transfer practices entail transparency, predictability, rapid turnaround of files,
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and also a good understanding of how value gets created through the spin out of
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technology and which avoids the overloading upfront with economic expectations. So some of our
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including in Germany and in other parts of the US where there's less experience with
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efiicient technology transfer, some of these offices demand too high a payment upfront.
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For example, to make it very simple, right, you are a researcher
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you want to take your idea out, or you have a venture capitalist who
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wants to help you start a company around your idea. We're going to charge
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them a million dollars upfront to access your pattern that's owned by the university,
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So that won't work right in more cases, and best practices often are a
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much more collaborative approach where the university can retain some value and create some revenue
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back for the university by being aligned with the startup and gaining value as a
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startup develops. So that's academic excellence, technology transfer practices, culture. Then,
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of course there's talent. All of this does not suffice if you don't
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have a diverse pool of talent that you can access, and I'm talking about
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diversity in every aspect. But you don't just need engineers, you don't just
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need biologists. You also need regulatory experts, as we mentioned before, you
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need finance experts, you need h R experts, You need people who can
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write pattern files, you need people who can write, you know, pitch
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decks to sell your things. So that all goes in into the talent base,
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and so cities that have more of that will always do better because then
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companies can recruit the talent for the relay race at the various stages that they
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need that space and real estate and lab space does play a big role.
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We have seen many cities loose because they didn't have affordable, ample well equipped
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lab space available for startups who then choose to go to Boston or San Francisco
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instead because it's available there. Our organizations help with that significantly, and oftentimes
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creating a biolabs can in your city can be the anchor around which much of
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the other work then can crystallize. Having a biolabs location or a similar incubator
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where you have dozens of projects will attract founders because now they find their peers
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around them, which sets the culture right. The programming and the seminars that
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we routinely do to train founders to be better at the business side of science,
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they will elevate the talent resource and it ultimately attracts financing or capital as
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well. So capital is sort of the next bucket that you need. You
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need capital that can support startups in your ecosystem. The bank that are the
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rich individual who may be there isn't sufficient, right. You need what we
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call knowledgeable capital. People who are willing and understanding of the risks that goes
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in who don't write you a check because they like you, but who write
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you a check because they believe in you and they understand what you're proposing to
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do. So that's different. Capital that's just money is very different from capital
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that understands the risk and can be helpful in the process of forming a company.
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And another big aspect is collaboration with what I call the buy side for
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me, that's the pharmaceutical industry. And ideally you would have in your city
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or you would attract to your city such players who can ultimately be buyers of
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startups or at least surround the startup teams with good advice. We see we
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succeed in facilitating the interface between startups and big farmerlands, always to the benefit
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of both stakeholders. Only on the making medicine power, well not only it's
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elsewhere, but there you have it. I mean, that is the recipe
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for success. And I know cities and regions are scratching their heads on these
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questions, but what you just described is the recipe and you have the experience
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of building it out. You know, I want to close with you know,
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talking about that you sort of are returning to your roots with some interest
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in Europe. File Labs has obviously been very successful here in the US.
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You chose to go to Heidelberg and to Paris, and I imagine that's only
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the beginning. What drew the interest back to Europe for bio labs and why
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make that expansion now? Yeah, And as we're talking about Heidelberg, I
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need to mention that there has been a tragic shooting this morning at Heidelberg University
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at the medical school, which is unheard of in Germany, and I'm worried
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about my friends and colleagues over there. I hope that we're not seeing a
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period of, you know, worsening of the environment over there. But what
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makes me do this is both personal and business driven. Personal because I'm from
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Germany. My parents are still there, my brothers are there and have many
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good friends there, and so I enjoy helping them and bringing to Germany to
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where I studied and to where I come from. Many of the learnings that
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I have derived over the last twenty years of doing this in this country and
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learning it well and thoroughly. I think we have the opportunity to really bring
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with Biolabs significant change to the innovation world in Europe. It's also driven by
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business desire. I believe that right now there's a moment in time where Europe
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has understood, they have understood finally that biotech is an area they want to
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invest in. That had not been the case in the past decades. In
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fact, there had been policies in place in the eighties and nineties that actively
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drove pharmaceutical and biotech out of Europe right for whatever host of reasons. Bio
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intact, the discoverer of the drug that is marketed here is the Fiser vaccine.
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Of course, as a German used to be a German small company,
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startup biotech company. And so now at least the German government is recognizing that
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they have the talent right there that could change the world and become a very
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important industry sector. So I have this convict that the European governments are realizing
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that and they will put more resources behind a sector that is emerging in Europe
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right now. So the timing is good. There's also there has always been
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excellent science at the universities in Europe and it has not been translated very well.
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So there's a real arbitrage opportunity for us, which translates into business opportunity.
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Right of sourcing technology and sourcing teams and then developing them in the United
31:29
States where we would likely have R and D groups reside in Europe and connect
31:34
them with the best practices of building a business, access to capital, access
31:38
to talent in the US that will not remove the R and D presence in
31:44
Europe, but will collectively build value on both sides. So those are some
31:48
of the reasons that have me spend more time in Europe now, and mostly
31:53
it's really that I hope to make an impact there as well as we have
31:56
done here. Well. I think it's absolutely incredible as that begins to grow
32:02
incubate had the opportunity, I had the opportunity to brief the European Parliament a
32:07
few years ago about those policies in the US that have enabled that innovation ecosystem
32:13
and what can be replicated their intellectual property, proper incentives, proper valuing of
32:19
medicine, and I think you represent the tip of the spear of that geneseequa
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to take a European phrase that actually makes academia successfully commercial and successfully entrepreneurial.
32:31
Our thoughts and prayers also with folks in Heidelberg. That is tragic and we'll
32:37
keep them and I know our listeners will be thinking of them as well.
32:40
I want to thank you Johannes. This is the first of what I hope
32:44
will be many times on the podcast. He is Johannes Fruhauf, investor,
32:50
incubator and let's not forget physician, and we've been really grateful to spend some
32:54
time with him today. Thanks again to our audience for listening and always sharing
33:00
feedback. More on Incubate and the work that folks like Johannes are doing or
33:04
is at www dot Incubate Coalition dot org. As always, a special thank
33:08
to my colleagues Ashland Roberts and Olivia Lucani and producing today's podcast, and as
33:15
always, keep innovating. You've been listening to Making Medicine. To ensure that
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