Latest / Activating Curiosity® | Leading Change in the Construction Industry / Decentralizing Work: How AI Is Reshaping AEC Staffing Models

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Decentralizing Work: How AI Is Reshaping AEC Staffing Models · Activating Curiosity® | Leading Change in the Construction Industry

• 0:58
  Mandy: When an individual who has been working for a company for a really long time put their time in and is watching other people be promoted over them simply for biased reasons, that that individual can freely pursue work without having the their employee overlord.
• 1:21
  Mandy: When that when when there is a system in place that serves that individual, that's what success looks like.
• 1:59
  Ryan: I am Ryan Ware, and just want to say I appreciate all of you as listeners and to everyone who is sharing the podcast with your network.
• 2:07
  Ryan: Continue to do that.
• 2:08
  Ryan: It helps us build that awareness out into the community, uh, the things that we're aiming to do with the podcast and keeping our curiosity at the highest level.
• 2:17
  Ryan: So, with that, I'm excited about the guest today.
• 2:20
  Ryan: We have Mandy McGill with Aedifico out of Seattle.
• 2:25
  Ryan: Uh hey Mandy, how are you?
• 2:27
  Mandy: Hello, I'm doing well.
• 2:28
  Mandy: Thanks so much for having me, Ryan.
• 2:30
  Ryan: Yeah, I appreciate it.
• 2:31
  Ryan: I'm glad you're willing to do this and be a part of it.
• 2:34
  Ryan: So before we dive into Activating Curiosity, why don't you tell a little bit about um your past, how you um where you kind of got started in this industry?
• 2:45
  Mandy: Sure.
• 2:45
  Mandy: Yeah.
• 2:45
  Mandy: So I've been a part of the sort of CRE AEC industry for about 15 years now.
• 2:52
  Mandy: Um, always an entrepreneur, or at least, you know, subtract six months from that, where I did try working full-time for someone.
• 3:00
  Mandy: Um, and started out as a recruiter doing recruitment services for lots of different companies in Seattle.
• 3:09
  Mandy: Um, sort of rode the uh the tech wave, if you will, like, you know, so many buildings going up.
• 3:16
  Mandy: We had the most cranes in the sky for like 10 years in Seattle.
• 3:19
  Mandy: So um, you know, so kind of rode that wave as an entrepreneur and a recruiter helping um AEC team teams grow and um, you know, helping my clients find the right talent for, you know, the types of projects they were building.
• 3:34
  Mandy: And um, you know, through through that, have, you know, served on different uh public task forces, learned a lot about the development process and you know, uh, where we're missing pieces and where it's really not uh sufficient and and and working the way that it could be.
• 3:53
  Mandy: Um and then about two and a half years ago, um, I was meeting with a lot of candidates who were feeling frustrated with their employer.
• 4:03
  Mandy: And I just started feeling this sense that like I can no longer place people in new roles in good conscience because um I knew that the culture uh that they were trying to leave is the same one that they would enter again.
• 4:19
  Mandy: It would just be different faces, right?
• 4:22
  Mandy: So um so I I started asking myself in what ways could I help these people like launch their own thing?
• 4:31
  Mandy: And um thinking about how maybe I could do BD for them or business development um and and helping them grow in that way.
• 4:40
  Mandy: And but meanwhile, I also um just had this obsession with technology and um saw how uh fintech was starting to change the way that we use money.
• 4:56
  Mandy: And so I started thinking about how that's gonna change our industry pretty drastically.
• 5:01
  Mandy: And so I got my um certificate in financial technology from the University of Washington.
• 5:07
  Mandy: So, like that was all kind of happening at once, where uh this technology piece was always in my head.
• 5:12
  Mandy: And I was thinking about how do I scale something, right?
• 5:16
  Mandy: So um, so that's kind of like the the beginning of you know how Aedifico came to be.
• 5:23
  Mandy: And by the way, it is Aedifico.
• 5:25
  Mandy: So um yeah, yeah.
• 5:26
  Mandy: People get it eventually.
• 5:28
  Mandy: Yeah, it's all good.
• 5:30
  Ryan: Yeah, no, thanks for clarifying that.
• 5:32
  Ryan: I think it, you know, the there's something behind the story of that name that I'm guessing the the Aedifico name um and that journey that has kind of gotten you to this, like sounds like there was a bit of a aha moment.
• 5:44
  Ryan: Like I'm sending people down a path that is just creating a frustration that maybe uh came to to light for you in there.
• 5:52
  Ryan: But how the name Aedifico, like how did you come to that?
• 5:57
  Mandy: Sure.
• 5:58
  Mandy: Um, so I I worked with a team and um, you know, so they were my co-founders and and we created this really fun startup community amongst us.
• 6:10
  Mandy: And um, so we were throwing a lot of names out there, and one of the individuals is actually from Colombia.
• 6:17
  Mandy: And so we were playing around with uh, you know, different, just different languages, right?
• 6:22
  Mandy: And um so we fell on Aedifico um because it's Latin for I build.
• 6:30
  Mandy: Um, and so I know we'll dive deeper into like what Aedifico is, why it exists.
• 6:36
  Mandy: And so it just felt like that name really um struck a chord.
• 6:41
  Mandy: And also because we had an international team, it was just um honoring kind of that piece that um, you know, if the platform were to become worldwide, that, you know, there would be a lot of people that that name would really resonate with.
• 6:58
  Mandy: Um it did not resonate with venture.
• 7:01
  Mandy: So um, you know, I've I've been told multiple times that I need to change it.
• 7:09
  Mandy: So, you know, there's that.
• 7:11
  Ryan: Uh you know, it makes a lot of sense when you say the the I build, but there's a story behind it, right?
• 7:16
  Ryan: Like you just got to tell that story of how you like there's a purpose.
• 7:20
  Ryan: There's a greater purpose for why you started the company, which allows you to tell the story by the name because it's not like you know, Mandy McGill consulting or something, right?
• 7:32
  Ryan: Like or something that's like, oh well, it's just you know, it maybe doesn't have the the power that you were hoping for.
• 7:40
  Ryan: So I wanted to hear that story because that's actually the first time I've gotten the chance to.
• 7:44
  Ryan: Uh thank you for setting that up.
• 7:47
  Ryan: And I think you you gave some insight into this next question, but um you you got to this point.
• 7:54
  Ryan: So what what is the biggest problem that you're aiming to solve?
• 8:01
  Mandy: Yeah, IDFICO actually solves a lot of problems, but I think fundamentally it aligns the industry with the future of work.
• 8:10
  Mandy: Um, so what does that mean?
• 8:13
  Mandy: Well, we we sort of designed all the way we work around the industrial revolution, which is companies coming together and you know, as a group of people and employees.
• 8:28
  Mandy: And there are many, many reasons for why we got to where we got to with employers.
• 8:33
  Mandy: Um, and those things were important at the time, um, you know, protecting workers and and things like that.
• 8:41
  Mandy: Um, but we our our industry is definitely not designed around the digital revolution, which is where we are now.
• 8:49
  Ryan: Right, right.
• 8:50
  Mandy: So um uh uh essentially what this does is uh it decentralizes work and gives individuals the power to work on projects that they want to work on, not just the projects that the company they work for happen to have won.
• 9:10
  Mandy: Yeah.
• 9:14
  Ryan: Yeah, that's an interesting way to put it.
• 9:16
  Ryan: And and I want to make sure that it's it's clarified.
• 9:20
  Ryan: So decentralized being a big part of it in the in the concept, which you know, we can dive into that that word, I think, a little more.
• 9:28
  Ryan: Um because it's one thing within operations of a team, and I'll go to like active operations where you're putting the the problem solving closer to the customer or to to that group as they're working on it.
• 9:46
  Ryan: And I think in your what you just described as this from an industry standpoint, putting people closer to their own purpose, is it decentralized because it's not connected necessarily to one corporation?
• 10:03
  Mandy: Yes, that's right.
• 10:05
  Ryan: Okay.
• 10:05
  Ryan: All right, so maybe maybe dive in then into the word decentralized and kind of break that down.
• 10:12
  Ryan: Cause I think it's a tremendous idea in this well, let's go back to the beginning of work.
• 10:18
  Ryan: Like you said, the industrialized revolution, there's been four of them.
• 10:23
  Ryan: And this fourth one that we're currently in, the pace at which it's happening, um, in a global market.
• 10:31
  Ryan: Um finding talent from anywhere to do anything that you're needing them to do based off sort certain platforms.
• 10:41
  Ryan: So when you're talking in this construction industry, is putting individuals more aligned with their purpose and their passion for what they want to be working on.
• 10:52
  Ryan: Describe that a little more uh if you can.
• 10:56
  Mandy: Sure.
• 10:56
  Mandy: But first I think it might help for a little more context.
• 11:00
  Mandy: Okay.
• 11:01
  Mandy: The way j just so that people can understand, instead of like talking theory for a second, let's just like here's how the tool is used, right?
• 11:09
  Mandy: So you go to Aedifico, and so you are a developer.
• 11:15
  Mandy: Okay.
• 11:15
  Mandy: You're a developer, you can be a small one, a small multifamily developer, or you could be an end user developer, right?
• 11:23
  Mandy: And you go to the platform and and it's not like LinkedIn where you're like, oh, let me like search for keywords.
• 11:33
  Mandy: I mean, keywords are a part of it, but what you do is you enter your scope of work and then the scope, then we use AI to match that scope with individuals who can perform that scope of work.
• 11:50
  Mandy: Um, and so just to make sure that like that feels clear for your audience that um that that's how it works.
• 11:57
  Mandy: So it's it's a developer tool as much as it is uh a tool for individuals who don't want to work for a company.
• 12:05
  Mandy: And so because they're entering a scope of work instead of a job description, it aligns um the the whole industry around staffing a project instead of staffing a company.
• 12:20
  Ryan: Okay.
• 12:21
  Ryan: Yeah, I think no, that makes that makes a lot of sense, right?
• 12:25
  Ryan: So we think about it all the time of these ebbs and flows in the industry.
• 12:29
  Ryan: And we've seen we, you know, we saw it in 2008.
• 12:33
  Ryan: Um, unfortunately, during that downturn or even COVID, of like you have build an entire team for a business.
• 12:41
  Ryan: Um, there are projects and certain sectors come and go, and how do you shift around that as they they tick up?
• 12:47
  Ryan: So you're I I think you've you laid it out in the sense that it isn't just about the individual searching, it is about you know, that developer, regardless of you know, where they are in that spectrum of what they're you know, actually want the building to be, right?
• 13:03
  Ryan: Whether it's like you said residential side to to larger corporate facilities, it gives them a platform outside the noise potentially of LinkedIn, of like there's just millions of people, you know, coming in and bearing HR with resumes.
• 13:21
  Ryan: The other side of that is individuals feel like, hey, I'm not even I'm not even visible to any of this.
• 13:28
  Ryan: You're providing if you, you know, here is actually what I'm needing for this project.
• 13:35
  Ryan: Not a here's a long-term contract and commitment and employment.
• 13:40
  Ryan: It is this is very specific.
• 13:43
  Ryan: This is based off who do you, you know, who has the passion and the talent to align with that.
• 13:48
  unknown: Yep.
• 13:48
  Ryan: Right.
• 13:49
  unknown: Okay.
• 13:50
  Ryan: I want to make sure that we we nailed that down because I think it's it is a very different approach.
• 13:57
  Ryan: And we'll get to this because I think I'm starting to already hear like there's a lot of mindset shift towards this um for a lot of people.
• 14:07
  Ryan: Um, so you know, is that so given that then is that one of the biggest sort of barriers is is how to, you know, for teams or businesses to well, you know, now this is here versus the old traditional way of like, well, how does that change culture?
• 14:29
  Ryan: How does that change uh process?
• 14:31
  Ryan: How does it change how HR and operations, you know, all the whole the whole business needs to be thinking about this?
• 14:39
  Mandy: Mm-hmm.
• 14:39
  Mandy: Mm-hmm.
• 14:40
  Mandy: Yeah.
• 14:41
  Ryan: Is what other obstacles, or maybe we drill into that a little bit of like how they should be thinking about it to be successful then?
• 14:51
  Mandy: Yeah.
• 14:52
  Mandy: Um the these these are definitely the obstacles, right?
• 14:55
  Mandy: Because it it requires you to think in a very different way and the way that you staff anything, and there are entire departments of companies that exist um to do what IDFo does.
• 15:08
  Mandy: So on a smaller scale, uh, you know, it's HR is is, and when I say smaller scale, what I mean is if you're an AEC company, um, HR, like they may want to use the tool, but the tool kind of replaces them.
• 15:24
  Mandy: And and so it's it's challenging uh for the AEC companies to think about using it in this way.
• 15:33
  Mandy: Um, I have also, I'm under NDA with several different uh end users.
• 15:38
  Mandy: That that's a lot of my network is them.
• 15:41
  Mandy: And I I see this being a tool that they could adopt um faster because they already, like a lot of them are tech companies themselves, right?
• 15:49
  Mandy: So, you know, so they're they're sort of encouraged to adopt things like this.
• 15:53
  Mandy: However, in this case for them, uh the challenge is procurement.
• 15:58
  Mandy: And the procurement department doesn't really understand how to treat us because they're, you know, they're they're used to just bringing on an AEC company to to do the work, right?
• 16:13
  Mandy: So um I I'm not under NDA with Boeing, for example.
• 16:19
  Mandy: I mean, I spoke with the head of construction and real estate for Boeing.
• 16:24
  Mandy: We had lunch, he was mind blown, just stoked about how this could literally change his life personally.
• 16:31
  Mandy: Right, right.
• 16:32
  Mandy: And yet when he spoke with procurement, um, they were like, we don't know what that is, and we don't want to spend the time to know what that is.
• 16:43
  Mandy: And um, you know, there there's room there, there's still follow-up that needs to happen and will happen um at in the right time.
• 18:03
  Mandy: But um for now, uh it, you know, those are those are the things they have processes, and because this this Aedifico doesn't fall into their um normal way of working, it it makes it really challenging.
• 18:19
  Mandy: And also if we could go back to decentralization just for a second.
• 18:23
  Mandy: Um I think you know, that term does get thrown around a lot and it all it it it there are lots of different contexts in which you can look at decentralization, but in this case, um centralization just really is defined by employment and decentralization is is you know taking the work and and scattering it uh such that it it can reach more people.
• 18:52
  Ryan: Okay, yeah.
• 18:52
  Ryan: Yeah, I'm glad you went back to it, because just thinking about getting that clarity and thinking about what you just kind of brought up with with the challenges.
• 18:59
  Ryan: So centralized being like, hey, HR goes does the traditional route, you're you're bringing in employees um through recruitment and then and then retainment.
• 19:14
  Ryan: In this case, it is taking that piece out, getting a broader look at the skill set and the talent aligned with the need that you're looking to fill for that project, not just in a national but potentially global footprint.
• 19:33
  Mandy: That's right.
• 19:34
  Ryan: Okay.
• 19:35
  Ryan: And then so with that, like you just said, then it's not that there's procurement, HR.
• 19:41
  Ryan: And I think we, you know, as we we think about everybody's mindset around AI, oh my gosh, it's gonna take my job, it's gonna take my job.
• 19:51
  Ryan: Well, the third the second industrial revolution and then the third, right?
• 19:58
  Ryan: Like we were never meant to continue to work the way we're working, and in some countries that's not the case, but in the United States, like where we were supposed to see a decrease due to those, you know, industrial revolutions, like we actually increase the amount of hours we spend.
• 20:17
  Mandy: That's right.
• 20:18
  Ryan: And doing a lot of things that we may, you know, are we busy or are we busy?
• 20:24
  Ryan: Um, and what are we focused on?
• 20:26
  Ryan: And I think with this technology, as you're saying, it's this our mindset around what should we actually be focused on?
• 20:34
  Ryan: What should we be doing?
• 20:35
  Ryan: Because with HR, you just mentioned it, like will it replace them, or does the role of HR within a corporation or within another business disappear, or the role shifts to this new approach of the way we, the way you're discussing kind of forming, think about building, going from first plane concept all the way through occupancy.
• 21:01
  Ryan: Um then I think about procurement too, and something you just said, which is interesting, is anything new, anything new that's brought to the table, it's always like, well, I don't recognize it, so boom, I'm going to default mode.
• 21:17
  Ryan: So default mode is, you know, it's that system in our head that's like I, you know, I haven't built a habit or routine around it.
• 21:24
  Ryan: So therefore, it's a lot more energy for me to to look at this new thing and put together a process for it.
• 21:33
  Ryan: So you know, whether it gets solved, you know, something we're talking through today, but I think it's interesting in that it doesn't mean it's a wrong answer, it means that it's new territory.
• 21:45
  Ryan: And what does that look like for procurement teams?
• 21:48
  Mandy: Okay.
• 21:49
  Ryan: Who generally, you know, it's a they write a contract, like you said, and sign and bring somebody on board.
• 21:56
  Ryan: Um anything else that you can think of from a barrier?
• 22:01
  Ryan: I mean, those are definitely ones that you know will act get us curious, like how do we how should we be looking at this differently?
• 22:09
  Ryan: Um, is there anything else that you you've come across like where someone's not accepting it or pushed back and and how to think about it differently?
• 22:20
  Mandy: Yeah, I guess I guess the one thing that I would just add, it you know, and it comes along the same line as like culture and process, and this is familiar, is that the this is one of the very few industries that uh relationships still matter.
• 22:39
  Mandy: And they matter a lot.
• 22:43
  Mandy: Um, and I say that as a human who appreciates relationships.
• 22:48
  Mandy: Um on the other hand, what ends up happening when you just keep going to your same contractor is that like the good old boy's flywheel just keeps on going, right?
• 23:02
  Mandy: And um and so I I do think it's going to be disrupted.
• 23:08
  Mandy: Um it has to be for other reasons we could go into.
• 23:13
  Mandy: Um, but I think that that uh that is one of the main barriers as well, is just that um well, I got my guy.
• 23:25
  Mandy: My guy does it for me, right?
• 23:27
  Mandy: And and so the even if you can supply a less expensive, way more amazing, talented person that's not my guy.
• 23:40
  Ryan: So yeah.
• 23:42
  Ryan: Well, and that's fair.
• 23:44
  Ryan: And I think you know, you're located up in up in Seattle in the Puget Sound, right?
• 23:49
  Ryan: And and we having worked there or even around the Bay Area now, you know, in Ohio, it's like everywhere I've been, the industry can feel enormous, but at the same time very small, like very small and tight, as you said.
• 24:05
  Ryan: And and I don't I don't think the what you're saying is like, hey, you got to get rid of all of these things.
• 24:11
  Ryan: It's like we we know we have a labor challenge.
• 24:15
  Ryan: And to be honest, I've been trying to not say uh labor shortage, because I think with the word shortage, my own personal belief is that we think, oh, we just fill it with supply and it's it's taken care of.
• 24:29
  Ryan: Well, that's you know, that's not happening.
• 24:32
  Ryan: Like there's you know, that's a real problem for all industries, not just construction.
• 24:38
  Ryan: So how can we reframe, you know, where the talent will be um when we're choosing to live where we we sort of want to live, and there's there's a need to go build a hospital in West Texas.
• 24:56
  Ryan: Well, you're building cities in West Texas to build hospitals because you know, the talent pool uh isn't regional, so these things are already starting to occur to go away from I've got my person and I do I like how you you know you have empathy for it.
• 25:21
  Ryan: Like we're all human, it's complex, it's just very complex.
• 25:24
  Ryan: But it doesn't mean that procurement teams and HR shouldn't be thinking like, well, what is that future of work, like you said?
• 25:35
  Ryan: Because we're going to see, you know, in the next few years and decade, like this mass sort of exodus, retirees towards other jobs starting to peak interest, people leaving, and the AGC will tell you, like, hey, we have an empty bucket, or even an architecture firm.
• 25:57
  Ryan: So the problem's not being solved now by having my person, right?
• 26:04
  Ryan: Like that's right.
• 26:06
  Ryan: Um, so reframing it and thinking like again back to this mindset um onto that new territory and how I've never I've never seen this or thought about it.
• 26:20
  Ryan: But I, you know, if we were to think like, hey, here's the construction industry, is there an industry where you're seeing this concept?
• 26:29
  Ryan: Or you know, I think about like traveling nurses, right?
• 26:33
  Mandy: Like yeah.
• 26:34
  Ryan: So okay, so with that, I'm gonna I'm gonna hand it to you.
• 26:38
  Ryan: What how did what drew you to say, hey, like this is working in other industries?
• 26:43
  Ryan: What have they done?
• 26:43
  Ryan: How did they break down some of those barriers?
• 26:47
  Mandy: Yeah.
• 26:47
  Mandy: Um, so I really looked a lot to upwork as an example for how this could be done, um, and really kind of designed it very similarly to upwork, um, other than acknowledging that our industry has a lot of very specific um needs and licenses and and you know, certain education um that is really important.
• 27:15
  Mandy: So that was sort of built into the system.
• 27:17
  Mandy: Um but yeah, certainly Upwork and and it is it is being done in um obviously in tech a ton.
• 27:27
  Mandy: Um I I I know that Upwork has a lot of big contracts with Microsoft, for example, right?
• 27:35
  Mandy: Where where they just they just utilize the talent that's on the platform and um and they have kind of a a special kind of deal with them, I suppose.
• 27:46
  Mandy: So that that really is is kind of how I saw it.
• 27:50
  Mandy: And I I think what's really interesting to think about.
• 27:53
  Mandy: So this was like I'm talking two years ago, right?
• 27:56
  Mandy: Two two and a half years ago, that like all of this was like formulating in my head.
• 28:01
  Mandy: Right.
• 28:02
  Mandy: Now, you know, and and because things are are advancing so rapidly, um, I recently interviewed Robin Jesuthasson.
• 28:11
  Mandy: Um, he's the author of, well, he's the author of lots and lots of books and is part of the World Economic Forum and all of this.
• 28:18
  Mandy: And this is not a political statement, believe me.
• 28:20
  Mandy: So don't come at me for it.
• 28:21
  Mandy: But um he is um with Mercer, and Mercer is a consultant that uh works with really big HR firms.
• 28:32
  Mandy: And so I know, for example, that IBM has already implemented the platform model um in both internally and externally.
• 28:45
  Mandy: So that means that like internally, everything is designed around a project.
• 28:52
  Mandy: And if you are a full-time employee at IBM, you can say, I want to work on this project, I want to work on this project, I don't want to work on this project.
• 29:03
  Mandy: And then they supplement through other platforms like Upwork, um, those jobs that they don't need internally.
• 29:13
  Mandy: And companies, they just they don't want to hire.
• 29:16
  Mandy: They just straight up don't want to hire.
• 29:18
  Mandy: And right now, like the the fact is AI is going to replace many jobs in AEC.
• 29:24
  Mandy: Um and so I I think like this is the way that I'm viewing it now.
• 29:32
  Mandy: This can kind of continued through that thread of decentralization, is that that's even happening within companies now, um, where they're no longer like, here's a job.
• 29:43
  Mandy: Um, the the title of Robin's book is uh Work Without Jobs.
• 29:48
  Mandy: Um and and so you know they just don't even talk about jobs and job descriptions anymore.
• 29:55
  Mandy: It's just here's a project.
• 29:57
  Mandy: Um, are you capable of like being a part of this project team or not?
• 30:04
  Mandy: And cool.
• 30:05
  Mandy: And and and it like literally like people flow.
• 30:09
  Mandy: They flow to the work when it's needed and then they flow away from the work when it's not needed any longer.
• 30:17
  Ryan: You know, I I can't help but think, like as you just described that, like that's what happens inside of businesses naturally.
• 30:23
  Ryan: It's just pulling it into a larger forum of they may not be in your business because as projects come and go, especially in the architecture side, you know, where I came from, like there's studios, there are experts in those areas, and even in large general construction companies, like there are people who focus on like that's all they do is that one client.
• 30:48
  Ryan: Like if you think about you know, this isn't true in every area, but if you bring up the big GCs on the West Coast and some of the other areas, that's how they function.
• 30:57
  Ryan: So it's not, it's not, you know, it's just stretching our minds, maybe a little bit of like you're sort of taking what you know and saying, like, what if you had a way to find, you know, that person out there that was in studio A or Studio B.
• 31:15
  Ryan: They're just now similarly NM studio here or there, and you're connected to them.
• 31:21
  Ryan: And again, when you just said it, that started making me think like we we already do that.
• 31:29
  Ryan: Like architects already partner, and so do GCs through it's not always JVs, it doesn't have to be to that contract model, but like there are small architecture firms who become the architect of record versus the design architect based off skill sets in regions where they can't go, uh, the way NCAR works with with lincensure and companies or settings.
• 31:51
  Ryan: So again, back to the is this totally new, or is it uh just a different way of thinking of how we're already doing it by stretching the opportunity further than we've we've seen it before?
• 32:07
  Ryan: Just wanted to share that because back to the curiosity piece.
• 32:11
  Ryan: Is it really that new or how are we thinking about it?
• 32:14
  Mandy: Right, right.
• 32:15
  Mandy: No, I love that.
• 32:17
  Mandy: Thank you for pointing that out.
• 32:18
  Mandy: And I think, you know, it's always helpful when people have some kind of like basis of understanding that you can build on when you're sharing.
• 32:28
  Mandy: And it's almost, I would say, 95% of the time when people say, What do you do?
• 32:35
  Mandy: And I ask them if they know what upwork is, and they don't, it's like, oh shit.
• 32:41
  Mandy: Like, okay, we're really, you know, and it's like people don't have the time or the brain capacity.
• 32:49
  Mandy: And I'm not saying it's not that this is about intelligence, but let's these people are working 80 hour weeks.
• 32:56
  Mandy: Right.
• 32:56
  Mandy: Right.
• 32:57
  Mandy: Like they don't have time to learn something new.
• 33:00
  Mandy: And um, you know, and and so if you have to start that early in your education process just to simply have a conversation about what you're doing, then perhaps you're too early.
• 33:13
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 33:13
  Mandy: You know, that's a lesson for me that I'm learning.
• 33:16
  Ryan: You know, it yeah.
• 33:18
  Ryan: And I you just said something that that I think is again why, you know, for me, starting the podcast was so important.
• 33:26
  Ryan: Is I I mean I'm tired of hearing, I'm I don't have time to learn something new.
• 33:33
  Ryan: That is one of the the one of the reasons I was like, look, the problem I'm aiming to solve and and why I'm appreciating this conversation is that we have got to like that is what we're supposed to do.
• 34:41
  Ryan: That is literally why we became, you know, practiced architecture or in construction is to solve problems.
• 34:48
  Ryan: So something isn't working if we don't have time to learn something new, which means the new thing might be what gives us back our time to do what we love, to do what we're passionate about, to do the things that got us into this the first time, where the other stuff, the other stuff that is mental real estate, uh you know, squatters living in our own head where we can't release out of that so that we can do what we're passionate about, then if we can't solve that, I don't, I don't know who does.
• 35:26
  Ryan: And I don't mean you and I, I just mean as individuals in the whole industry side, is like we got to ask the question like, why don't we have time to learn something new?
• 35:35
  Ryan: Like you just said, because what you're bringing to the table is hey, this is a different way to looking at solving the problems of getting the talent to the project in an area where the project need is there, that's something the owner wants to do.
• 35:53
  Ryan: And over here on this side is a project team that really wants to do it.
• 35:57
  Ryan: It isn't forced compliance, it isn't forced on them because someone went and won it inside of a firm.
• 36:04
  Ryan: And well, you don't have anything on your plate over here, so you're gonna go work on this.
• 36:08
  Ryan: So, anyway, that gets me passionate, but I just think that we have a responsibility for our own, like as individuals, to be asking that question of like, who what is it that's taking up my time that I don't have time to learn?
• 36:24
  Ryan: So, you know, maybe maybe that answers this this next question like what is it costing us uh if we don't solve the issue?
• 36:35
  Ryan: Um what do you think about that?
• 36:38
  Ryan: Like, if we don't solve what you're aiming to solve, like what do you think the impact is for this industry?
• 36:47
  Mandy: Yeah.
• 36:48
  Mandy: Um so I guess I'll say I do think the problem that I described is going to be solved.
• 36:58
  Mandy: Um, it's just that it won't be intentional and the changes that will happen over time and how the problem sort of solves itself um are gonna be really painful.
• 37:16
  Mandy: So I I I think i i if the problem is talent doesn't want to be in our industry, um the way that that will eventually be solved and this this bucket that you're talking about, or you know, these these jobs that could supposedly be filled, um, they just won't exist anymore.
• 37:43
  Mandy: I I think that AI is gonna solve this for us in in in different ways.
• 37:50
  Mandy: So one of them is going to be that the AI will do a lot of what humans currently do.
• 37:57
  Mandy: The other way the AI is gonna solve it is that the humans that hang out and stay in the industry um will will be able to um connect in the same way that I'm describing Aedifico, but it will just be probably through one of the large language models.
• 38:19
  Mandy: Um, I'm not sure if you heard the announcement that OpenAI is actually going to open up a jobs platform mid-2026.
• 38:27
  Mandy: And what that means is that they they and they'll start certifying people in AI in AI specifically.
• 38:36
  Mandy: So they'll you'll be able to take an AI test and it will give you a score, and then people will be able to find you based on your ability to use AI.
• 38:47
  Mandy: Yeah.
• 38:48
  Mandy: And the way that it's gonna work in the future is that we'll all have tokens associated with our skills.
• 38:57
  Mandy: And the tokens will then match up, you know.
• 39:01
  Mandy: So you have a certification, it's a digital token.
• 39:03
  Mandy: You have a degree, it's a digital token.
• 39:06
  Mandy: And so um AI will immediately be able to connect you with whoever needs your skills.
• 39:15
  Mandy: Um and so I I mean, I've described to you a couple ways that like I'm early.
• 39:23
  Mandy: I Aedifico is really early and perhaps too early.
• 39:26
  Mandy: And I I I it's possible that AI will just naturally like as people start to use it more and more, and it becomes the way that we do our work, um, that will just be a natural inflow of um that the talent sort of exists in the same platform as the how the operations are now happening.
• 39:50
  Mandy: Is this making sense what I'm saying, Ryan?
• 39:52
  Ryan: Yeah, I think what I'm hearing is that, well, one, it's about time that we teach people how to use AI.
• 40:00
  Ryan: Um, I always said I'm not afraid of AI, it's the humans not understanding how to use it.
• 40:07
  Ryan: It's it's how to look at the tool in a way that accelerates your own being and providing greater opportunity, I think, for many individuals.
• 40:18
  Ryan: And and it makes complete sense from you know, we started thinking about blockchain and we this gets deep.
• 40:24
  Ryan: You know, I I say that a lot on this podcast, but that you know, getting to a digital, you know, currency or digital area, we've been we've been on this path for making more from less things.
• 40:40
  Ryan: Um, and in this AI, like you said, this connection that I'm hearing is that we'll all sort of be in this digital world and it'll be a quicker, it'll be a quicker way to start to connect individuals to a project, to an opportunity, to whatever skill set, background.
• 41:02
  Ryan: And if you've done it the way you wanted to do it, then your passion, your personal purpose is then tied to that as well because you got to make that choice.
• 41:13
  Ryan: You weren't forced to go down a path.
• 41:17
  Ryan: You chose like this is the arena I like to be in.
• 41:21
  Ryan: And I think I think about it now, just you go on LinkedIn, it's like you all the stories of just individuals who are so frustrated by this job market, which has just been stalled for certain areas, like years.
• 41:34
  Ryan: You know, the future jobs are not created in a lot of arenas, but in the construction, like there is going to be a change in certain roles.
• 41:47
  Ryan: Um there always has been.
• 41:49
  Ryan: That came true when the computer came out, it came true when the web was more accessible and everything, and the way we've done it throughout of our careers in this in this industry.
• 41:59
  Ryan: So I look at it that is it early or is it you go through this educational piece that is required?
• 42:08
  Ryan: Um, and we have to appreciate that.
• 42:10
  Ryan: I think what to me, to you, like hearing the story is like there's an opportunity of learning that we should be celebrating about all of these things that are coming.
• 42:24
  Ryan: Like, this is our real opportunity to learn, to to see this well, you know, the messy middle part of change of like I get to be a part of this.
• 42:34
  Ryan: It's not forced on me, it's not this.
• 42:36
  Ryan: I get to choose my own adventure in it.
• 42:40
  Ryan: Um, or choose to, you know, ignore it and then fall victim to it, potentially.
• 42:47
  Ryan: Um, and I'm not saying that you are a victim of it, it's just where your mind will take you as an individual.
• 42:53
  Ryan: So, yes, there are things that might solve it, but we should be making our own choices if we're going to dive in and be a part of solving it.
• 43:00
  Ryan: Or just let, and I'm not a huge fan of the word disrupt because I think people hear the word it's going to disrupt, and it's like, that's more work, that's more pain, that's all of these other things.
• 43:11
  Ryan: And I think you said at the very beginning so clearly was there's an opportunity.
• 43:16
  Ryan: And there's an opportunity to remap how we think about staffing projects and delivering projects from early concept development all the way through.
• 43:28
  Ryan: How how did that sound summary sound?
• 43:33
  Mandy: No, yeah, that that's I mean, you said it well.
• 43:37
  Ryan: We've talked before, and some things have pivoted, and and and I think that's your agility of like, hey, things are gonna shift, new things are gonna come out.
• 43:46
  Ryan: Um but to you, you know, from your vantage point and knowing what Aedifico, what you want to do personally with it, what you're seeing and what you're hearing, like what does success look like to you from that from that standpoint?
• 44:04
  Mandy: Yeah, I think um that the success really isn't about me.
• 44:10
  Mandy: It's to me, success will look like when an individual who who has been working for a company for a really long time put their time in and is watching other people be promoted over them simply for biased reasons, that that individual can freely pursue work um without having the their employee overlord.
• 44:44
  Mandy: When that when when there is a system in place that serves that individual, that's what success looks like.
• 44:54
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 44:55
  Ryan: That's powerful.
• 44:57
  Ryan: Um you tied it back to the human side.
• 45:00
  Ryan: Sometimes businesses are seen as this big machine and that, and I think this goes, you know, you've you've done a lot of work working on those individuals to find them opportunities that in the end it is a human piece.
• 45:19
  Ryan: Not a technology piece, it is technology as a tool that we can use as individuals.
• 45:27
  Ryan: So I appreciate you sharing that.
• 45:29
  Ryan: So given that, then you know you're diving forward, you're moving, you're having these conversations.
• 45:37
  Ryan: Like what would you say some next steps and and actions that people could do if they wanted to learn more, have dialogue just like we're having with you, hear you having dialogue, like what what are some next things that they could do?
• 45:51
  Mandy: Sure.
• 45:51
  Mandy: Um, I I I think.
• 45:53
  Mandy: Well, first of all, sharing this message and this podcast, I I think is like paramount to me.
• 46:03
  Mandy: That that is the most important thing to get the message out.
• 46:06
  Mandy: Because like you and I having this conversation is great, but like a million people sharing it is better.
• 46:13
  Mandy: Right.
• 46:14
  Mandy: Right.
• 46:14
  Mandy: Exactly.
• 46:15
  Mandy: Um, and then as far as like where people can, you know, find me, I'm um, I've I've sort of I'm really deep in the blockchain weeds right now and and looking at how how we might solve real estate problems from the financial perspective and the digitization of real world assets.
• 46:39
  Mandy: Um, and so I I'm learning a lot about that and I'm sharing all of my learning on TikTok because there just is so much more reach on TikTok than we see on LinkedIn or any other social media platforms.
• 46:53
  Mandy: I feel strange on TikTok if I'm being honest, because I'm a like a xennial, you know, like I'm a Gen X, I have an ancient millennial who um is, you know, learning these new tools.
• 47:06
  Mandy: And um, so but people can find me at Mandy Aedifico on TikTok if they happen to be on it.
• 47:12
  Mandy: Um, and then, you know, people can reach out to me on LinkedIn if if they'd like and want to have a conversation about Aedifico.
• 47:19
  Mandy: I mean, it's a fully working MVP.
• 47:23
  Mandy: Um, and so if they're interested in talking more, I'm I'd be happy to chat about it.
• 47:30
  Ryan: Okay.
• 47:30
  Ryan: And and we will share all of your information into the link um both on YouTube and on the podcast, wherever they get their podcast, so that you can reach out to Mandy and have further conversation.
• 47:42
  Ryan: Like she said, like like we barely got into it, I think.
• 47:46
  Ryan: Like that's the hardest part.
• 47:47
  Ryan: But again, I tell everybody like activating curiosity is just that.
• 47:51
  Ryan: Um, we want you to be more curious, we want you to dive into those questions.
• 47:55
  Ryan: And to be honest, like we will probably have another conversation as you begin to to work, you know, more into that area, because it's a new way to think about it.
• 48:04
  Ryan: Like, I know there are people, you know, what's crypto, what's blockchain, whatever all these things that they're going to want to understand, but we don't want to overwhelm at the same time.
• 48:14
  Mandy: Oh, yeah.
• 48:14
  Ryan: But hopefully people are willing to just have the dialogue and just out of that curiosity, you know, take a look at articles, take a look at, you know, what what others are doing, watch some videos that Mandy has out on on YouTube.
• 48:28
  Ryan: I get you on the TikTok, yes, as an old Gen Xer.
• 48:31
  Ryan: I'm not I'm not even in that.
• 48:33
  Ryan: I feel older sometimes.
• 48:35
  Ryan: Um, you know, but it's it's TikTok is an area where we can reach a lot of people to pique that interest.
• 48:44
  Ryan: So I appreciate you doing it.
• 48:45
  Ryan: I think you know, you you're putting out good work on LinkedIn.
• 48:50
  Ryan: And I think the reason we keep saying is sharing it through podcasts and other areas is that you know, we live in a digital world where an algorithm will will get it stuck.
• 49:01
  Ryan: And if you do find that this conversation is interesting, we need more people having it because in the end, as Mandy said, this is about you.
• 49:10
  Ryan: You are human.
• 49:11
  Ryan: What she's aiming to solve is to try to help all of us get more aligned with our purpose and be focused on uh designing and building uh the way we want to be doing that.
• 49:22
  Ryan: So, Mandy, I appreciate the conversation.
• 49:25
  Ryan: I I enjoyed it.
• 49:26
  Ryan: Um, you know, thanks for being here.
• 49:29
  Ryan: Any last thoughts you have?
• 49:32
  Mandy: Just uh appreciate you.
• 49:34
  Mandy: Thank you for your work.
• 49:35
  Mandy: I'm excited to continue to follow it, excited to see where you go.
• 49:39
  Mandy: And um, you know, you're doing a great job.
• 49:42
  Mandy: So just appreciate you.
• 49:45
  Mandy: Thanks, Ryan.
• 49:46
  Ryan: Well, I appreciate that as well, and I appreciate you and the conversation and and look forward to hearing how listeners uh interact with it.
• 49:53
  Ryan: Thanks.
• 49:54
  Ryan: Have a good one.
• 49:55
  Mandy: Me too.
• 49:55
  Mandy: All right, you too.
• 49:56
  Mandy: Take care.
• 49:57
  Ryan: So that is the show with Mandy McGill, uh, the founder of Aedifico And I I know it could feel overwhelming the the idea of a decentralized sort of labor force as you're approaching projects and and the construction industry, but really wanted to dive into how we think about it today in the current workforce and really talking about the future.
• 50:25
  Ryan: And as we we kind of ramped up and and weren't in recording, something that that Mandy mentioned was that, hey, the future generation isn't going to want to work the way maybe all of us have been trained to work.
• 50:40
  Ryan: Huge amount of hours, and what I'll typically tell people is like burnout cannot be the bar in which we feel people have enough expertise or enough experience to continue on in this industry.
• 50:58
  Ryan: So if we want to be able to attract and retain people, you know, within firms, within the construction side, we've got to rethink how we look at the work, how we think about the human side as it relates to this.
• 51:18
  Ryan: And that's why I think, you know, HR may not be totally removed if we're not focused on the change management and the culture that would be required for anything having to do with a decentralized labor force.
• 51:35
  Ryan: So the next generation isn't going to want the future workforce to feel the way it does now or anything like it did when you know baby boomers or Gen X first got into the workforce.
• 51:50
  Ryan: It's our responsibility and it's on us to figure out what does this future industry look like?
• 51:58
  Ryan: What legacy do I want to leave behind as an individual?
• 52:03
  Ryan: And I know it can feel like a lot, but if this has hopefully activated more curiosity into thinking about it, then it's done its job.
• 52:15
  Ryan: Because if we just look at it now and say, like, we know it's not working the way we want it to, then what might be possible?
• 52:24
  Ryan: And and then that's really where Mandy and I kind of connected and wanted to make sure that we started that conversation and got people some insight around it to carry that conversation forward.
• 52:38
  Ryan: Thank you again for listening.
• 52:40
  Ryan: Until next time, I hope you stay well.
• 52:42
  Ryan: Uh, I hope you continue to take on those challenges and continue to find ways to work individually and as teams while also staying focused on activating your curiosity.
• 53:05
  Ryan: Don't forget to podcast curiosity.
• 53:12
  Ryan: Until next time, keep leading with curiosity.