Latest / Gilbert. K Show / From Ozark to The Shards | Eric Koretz Behind the Camera

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From Ozark to The Shards | Eric Koretz Behind the Camera · Gilbert. K Show

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Today on the Gilbert K Show, we're going behind the camera with Emmy nominated cinematographer Eric Coretz.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: From Ozark's nail-biting finale to The Shard's Dark World, he knows how to make a quiet scene leave you holding your breath.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Let's give a big welcome to the one and only Eric Coretz.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_03: Hey Eric, uh pleasure to have you on the show.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: How are you today?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: Good, how are you doing?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_03: Very good.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, let's get into it.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: So, our first segment, The Kid Behind the Camera.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, before you were an Emmy nominated cinematographer, what were you like as a kid?
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: Were you the one making up stories, taking pictures, uh drawing, or quietly watching everyone else?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I was mostly making up stories to get myself out of trouble.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um or to get my or to get myself out of work.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think earlier on uh I was I did a lot of drawing, and I always was the one in class to do the creating instead of you know the the the dirty uh academic work.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I would always try and figure out how to work that into whatever project we were doing very earlier on.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then later on, I'd say in high school, um, I discovered photography.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so, you know, when I was drawing, I would really lose myself in drawing, and that that was my thing.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it never felt like um I could truly uh synthesize what I was seeing of the world into what I was putting on the page, even though I loved doing it.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I when I found photography, I think that really was it for me.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um I felt like I could capture moments that might seem mundane in real life, but how I was seeing the world and it really snapped the the ordinary to me into extraordinary.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think that's still uh that still fascinates me.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think photography is actually still my first love.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I love cinematography, but I love taking photographs, and I think I look at cinematography through a still photographer's perspective a lot of times where I what is the frame?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: How can I tell this image in one frame and how can it inform my worldview?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: That's interesting.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: That's great.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: That's great.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: What's one image from your childhood that you can still see clearly today?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: A place, a person, a moment, and why do you think it stayed with you?
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, you know, I think I blocked out a lot of my childhood, to be honest.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: But uh this I can think I can think of one moment and it feels mundane, but we were we were somewhere in the Caribbean as a child.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think we would go away a lot.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I just remember I was walking and I had my camera and there were just sort of three dogs just sitting up on this rooftop, and it's really hard to explain, but um, but I just took a picture of it, and then I was showing my parents like later on.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh, that that's really we never we didn't we walked by that same dog, we didn't see it the way you you saw it, and it was it was I had framed them in a way that like it was like there was a the main dog was like high up above looking down, the other two dogs were almost like its henchmen.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it was just a very simple moment in a simple photograph, but I I realized, oh, I can I can shape how people see things the way I might see things and show that to them, and that just sort of reinforced that um you know hitting home in some way, yeah, back to what I was talking about earlier.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: But it was mundane, it was just a mundane moment, and I was and I was just like, oh, this is I see this, and I can my art can tell the story of what's happening here through photography.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: Were your parents in the film industry or like painters, uh artists?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: No, no.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: My my parents, I grew up in outside of Boston in the suburbs of Boston, basically um in the woods there.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: My dad uh worked in the semiconductor business, and my mom was a teacher uh and a professor, and she taught other teachers how to teach.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so very far from the film industry.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I didn't even know it was something that I could do um growing up.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: I just I knew I loved movies.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I didn't, you know, I didn't that's not something I went into right away.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even think of it as a career possibility really until later on.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: So this is a good segue for uh the next question.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_03: You studied graphic design at Syracuse and later cinematography at the American Film Institute, AFI.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: So when did you realize that creating a single image wasn't enough and that you want to tell stories with moving images?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that's a that's a great question.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think um even when I was doing graphic design, I had started that's sort of when I was going to college, that's when these sort of really cool video cameras were coming out, like the I forget the names of it, there was a Canon, I think XL1, and there was um so it was this sort of there were three chip cameras, but they were on they're still on cassettes, but you could transfer to digital really easily.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so a lot of my graphic design projects I would actually work, I would try and work video into it.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I started learning after effects um and how I could animate over the frame and uh and work that in.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and in graphic design, I really um for me like designers like George Lois, who he um he did the the magazine cover with Muhammad Ali for Esquire, where he's getting hit with arrows, um in I think it was like 60s, something like that.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, before my time, but I really I studied that kind of work.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and he had said that um he always wanted to try and rip your throat out with his work.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: He wanted to get the big idea into everything, and I was trying to do that in my design work.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I think for me it was the idea, not necessarily the aesthetic of it all, even though with design you really learn how to dissect the page um to draw your eye in as you draw the audience in.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um I went to a program, it was called Calm Design um at Syracuse, which was in the School of Visual Performing Arts.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was a very intense program.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, they would burn your work off the wall if it wasn't good.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: That was one horror story.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: So you learned to have a very thick skin, which was good for the uh the the film business.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I had incredible teachers, and I I think their lessons there sort of went beyond what just design was and was more about the idea.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I think that translated well into film into film work because that's what I was already interested in.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um I actually had a design company on the side while I was in school.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing like global websites for companies like giant bicycles.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I was very busy.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then I moved to LA with a design company thinking I would do that and I would do music videos and EPKs, and then I realized I hated graphic design from there.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um so um and I I hate I wanted to make tell stories, and I I didn't like the process of design anymore.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think maybe I never did.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: I just I always was looking for the story way to tell stories, and that was like the avenue I knew.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I just quit everything and just started PA ing on film sets and learning what a film set was like, which was a shock coming from someone who did everything you know on the on their own to start.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: That's the question.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: I don't really know.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, it's good.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: That's good.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's good.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: So, what was the first shoot that made you think I can actually do this for a living?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: And what went wrong that they that can laugh about now?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if anything went wrong or not, but something always goes wrong.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's fill that's a film set, is something goes wrong, you gotta figure out how to fix it.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think oh wow.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the I mean my career has been such an arc from docs into commercials.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: I would say um, you know, I started off, I went to AFI.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was not a cinematographer before I went to AFI.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: I had a very uh American Film Institute, for those who who don't know, in in Los Angeles, um, I had a very weird portfolio.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: It was still photography and some video that I had shot myself and then animated over.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was so weird that even like my professor, the head of the department, Stephen Lighthill was like, you know, your portfolio is really weird.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think what he saw was my eye, uh, and that's what got me in.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone else there had years of ex, you know, multiple years of experience as a DP.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: I to be honest, I didn't even think I was a DP when I got into the cinematography program.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it was I was kind of an outlier.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um I learned AFI taught me really how to be a DP and what and what to learn, but I still had a lot to learn even when I went out.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I went into documentaries and the documentaries after school, and that led to sort of these lifestyle kind of commercials.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I would say um I can tell the story of, I guess, uh what you were talking about is what went wrong um a little bit later on when I started to really work as you go from one size project to another, I had gotten a very large car commercial.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I had never done a car commercial before.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or maybe I had and I hadn't done um the the the Ukraine arm, what was previously called the Russian arm, and now it's now we call it the Ukraine or um, you know, uh, you know, it's a car with a arm on top with a stabilized head.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um we had uh they had asked me when I got the job, like, hey, can you operate the head on a on an arm, on an arm car?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Yes, of course I can.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I had never done it before.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so um, you know, when students, when I'm talking to students or DPs that are like coming up and they ask, well, how do you get to the next step?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: I just tell them, well, lie, tell them you can do it, and then and then figure it out.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes that backfires and sometimes it doesn't.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you learn and you can you're actually, oh, I'm pretty good at this.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: So uh the first time I went we went out in the car, it was for a very big car company.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the director, let's say, was very uh over-energetic, over, over excited style.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so we started driving the car, we were going up and down the hill, and he would shout out these directions like left, right, up, down, no, no, no, left, right, like, and without giving us a moment to even frame up a shot.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I knew it was crazy, even though I hadn't been in that situation before, because even the crane operator was like, Holy shit, I can't fucking do this, like freaking out.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so we we stopped, and I we didn't, I knew I didn't get one shot.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was like the worst thing I had ever done.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we stopped the car, and the head of the car company, who was the actual head of the car company, came over.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, I want to see the footage.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so I he walked over to watch the footage, and I went into bushes and just puked everywhere.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, hopefully, no one saw, I'm not sure.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then I walked back and I saw that he was I saw his expression, and I was like, Don't even watch the rest.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: We need to go again, we have to figure something out.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and he was and the producer backed me up, he was like, Okay, and then he they were both like okay, they seemed very skeptical.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, but we got in the car and I turned to the director, I said, just let us finish a shot and then do the next direction.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Yeah, okay.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then we got in the car, and I was actually great at it.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: We we we'd get one shot, then he'd say, Okay, next, then we'd move over and get next.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then I realized I could actually do it, but the reason why I got to this the you know the commercial in the first place was I, you know, I said, sure, I know how to do it.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then you figure it out.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: I probably should have like practiced somewhere else first, but I didn't really have the resources for that at the time.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: So but you know, I figured it out.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's very inspiring.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: So we're gonna take a first break and we're gonna play a game, this or that.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a rapid fire game.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's a rapid fire game for the honest to get to know you.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um are you ready, Eric?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: I think so.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, let's do it.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, first light of morning or the last light before sunset.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not really a morning person, so I'm gonna say last light and sunset.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Plus, I love the beauty of that.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, anyways.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: Uh a beautiful room hiding uh a secret, or an ordinary room that suddenly turns frightening.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not into horror films, so I'm gonna say a beautiful room holding a secret.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: My wife is very much into horror films though, and she would say the opposite.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, my wife is the same.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the the Shards in 1981 LA or Ransom Canyon under a huge Texas sky.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Shards 1981 LA.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's I think then that sort of vibe is more my vibe.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh let the audience see the threat or make them search the frame for it.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_03: I guess it depends on the context.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: Can I say that?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you can.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh a perfectly planned shot or a brilliant accident?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: So again, I can't choose because I like both.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: I come from a documentary background where finding that that brilliant moment makes me feel incredible, but also I love perfectly planning a shot.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'd say, and I I'd say uh I'd say both.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, you can say both.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: Uh film a tense dinner or a party where everything goes wrong.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: So repeat that.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: Uh film a tense dinner, or a party where everything goes wrong.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: I would say a party where everything goes wrong, because one that happens in shards, but two, uh, because I like movement in shots, and um, I feel like that can guide you to some beautiful imagery.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: So um, the latter uh work with deep shadows or bright light that feels strangely unsafe.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, deep shadows.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh a quiet close-up or a shot that reveals a whole world.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: Uh old world, a shot that reveals the world.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: Uh revisit a place from your childhood or film somewhere you've never been.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely somewhere I've never been.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not one to go back on my childhood, even though your questions were great about it.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Not that there's anything wrong with my childhood.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, no, I know.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and finally, one more day on the shards or one more day on Ozark?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they were both so great for for so many reasons.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I mean Ozark was very special um shoot, and um, I would I would take one more day on that any anytime.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Although maybe season two shards, hopefully that comes through.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: I I I love the show actually, Ozark.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: I really love that.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, okay, we're gonna move on to our next segment finding your voice, then entering the shards.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Jason McCormick established the look of the shards in the pilot.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: When you joined, what excited you the most about that visual word?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: And where did you see room to bring your own voice?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I feel like Jason uh Jason built this beautiful, lush, visual, sultry palette for the world.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um, I was brought in um, I guess you would say halfway through.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um I just love what he what he did with it.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and he has such a he had brought such a top-notch crew onto it as well.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um and um for me, like I I'm sort of used to coming in part way through a show, seeing what's been done, and then bringing my own sort of experience and in style to it, but keeping within that world.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had done it on Ozark, I had done it on Lioness, um, I had done it on uh a bunch of other shows.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully I'm not known for that and like like get other things, but um so um the trick when you're doing that is how do you how do you build off of that and make it your own, but keep it, keep it in that world.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so um you know you don't want to push it too far unless that's what's called for in the design of the episodes.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of that comes from the maintaining the visual continuity coming from you know the crew that's that's there, and hopefully you're working with the main main crew.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um I had gaffer Manny Tappia, Keegar, Ray Garcia, um, first AC Eric Jensch were were incredible.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so luckily the first week we were, you know, we were we were on overnights the whole first week doing the party scene from Robert's party.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you know, everyone was incredibly tired, but like so good.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and you could say you could rely on them to be like, okay, I want to do this here.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Does this feel like it's in the vein of the show or not?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they they can you know tell you what they think.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um but also um Max Mangela, who was the director for both my episodes, um, he was a huge fan of the book coming into the series.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um The Shards was a book, obviously, by Brett Easton Ellis.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so he was he is a super fan, and he was so prepared um in designing shots, and we would our our preparation was uh hugely important for maintaining the look of the show, but also making it our own.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we would go to the locations and plan out plan out the shots and um plan out the lighting and how it felt.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and all that prep work is is is hugely important.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Now, sometimes what happens though is that um, you know, for example, you're coming coming in part way through and they're already behind, and you have to do double updates or sometimes triple updates, meaning I'm doubling up Jason's shooting his episode, I'm shooting my episode at the same time, and then uh Corey Jeriak was the there was a the third DP, there's another DP on it.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: So all three of us were shooting.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we were shooting all three at the same time, and so you get to divide up the crew.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and how do you get the continuity when you're when you're doing that?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's really the hard part.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, we had another fantastic gaffer, uh, Patrick Hoshen, who was he would be the electrician on the main unit, and then he'd come gaff when I was doing mine when we're doing uh split units, uh, and Hector Rodriguez, the first AC would be the B camera first, and he'd come over B A camera first for me.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: So like we'd have some continuity um there.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: But it's it's difficult.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, because we're as DPs, you're you have different styles and you have um different ideas.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um so the trick is really trying that style out, but also uh the trick is really, for example, uh the pilot episode knowing what he's done before and really studying that, and then how can you take that and sort of make it your own?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_03: So you mentioned there there were like three three teams shooting this different not sometimes, not not all the time.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: It would happen when we really got backed up, but most of the time it was it was just us, or it would be two units shooting at once, which is happens very often these days, two episodes shooting at once.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Ransom Canyon, we were doing that um a lot, um almost every almost every day.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh Ozark never did that.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um but um uh you know, other shows I think as budgets shrink, getting a way to yeah, it's a way it's a way to keep it all together.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, wow.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um so the word of the shards is glamorous, but danger is always nearby.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: And the scenes you shot, how did you make something beautiful feel just a little unsafe?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like a party you'd love to attend until you meet the guests.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um I would say so you the lighting was sort of this gorgeous, warm lighting that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Seductive that wraps around the actors and um it sort of captures this essence of like high-end wealth during that time period, glossy, inviting, but I think adding an element to it that feels unsettling.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes we'd, you know, the light, the windows would blow through and we'd have a hard sort of backlight hitting them, and it just gives them this crazy edge, or or even something subtle like the lights coming from below, kind of uplighting them while the rest of the glows around them.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think you know it's it's beautiful, but it's also like fragile and looks like something could pop at any minute.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where we tried to imbue in the uh the lighting at any in any point.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um what what was the most fun or surprisingly difficult part of filming a story set in 1981 uh in LA?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: Was there a location or detail that made you feel like you stepped back in time?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, for m first of all, the the production designer, Kat Smith, she's incredible and she built these amazing sets.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um there was the uh you know the restaurant, which is all built.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um all most of the bedrooms are actually all of the bedrooms were built.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um and um so once you step on these sets, you feel like you're in you're in the 80s um immediately.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so we would we didn't do things like where we would just like we used LEDs for sure.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we tried, you know, and then um, but we tried to get the color of of what the lighting might be from that time period.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um and um yeah, like for example, the the the few times that we were on location, it was mostly uh interiors or like contained.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: So we didn't really have to deal with the outside outside world too much.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it was really more about lighting for feeling and lighting for what you felt like the element of that time period would be, not necessarily making it um period correct.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: So Brett is drawn to Robert Mallory, but he's also suspicious of him.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: How did you approach filming that mix of attraction and fear without telling the audience what to believe?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think Max did a great job of that uh when we were planning out the shots.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: You'll see um in a moment when Brett comes into the party in in in uh episode four, um, and they just seem to be having this banter with Robert that feels just sort of like back and forthy at first.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: But then when he goes in for a close-up and he sort of leans into him and we just pop in very tight to him whispering into his ear, uh, and then you go pop back out to their the tights on their expression.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a really start getting into their mindsets of like they're fucking with each other.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you you don't know where this is gonna head.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: It could be sinister, it could be playful, but it feels not normal.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think that's one one engagement, and we're also with the lighting, too, um, where uh you know you we really played with uh trying to make make it feel a little bit more edgy whenever they get sort of get closer together.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um without giving away a big spoiler, which scene you photographed in the shards feel most personal to you and what did you bring to it that made you proud?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um so for me, I would say uh in episode eight, the confrontation between Brett and Terry Schaefer.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Brett, of course, played by Ian Rigby, and Terry played by Wes Bentley, who is the nicest person on earth and in person, but and his character is just this sleazy uh producer.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that scene is deeply uncomfortable.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: He's coursing sort of Brett into this sexual adult sexual favor for power game.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and for me, that's not the personal part for me, obviously.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but for cinematography-wise, I've we really leaned into this noir, um, dark noir sort of lighting.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's where I really do feel most at home when I'm when I'm lighting um sort of played with the shadows and light popping out of the shadows and hitting them, and we treat it like a this tense, um, shadowy chess match where Terry holds all the pieces.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um but then and we have this beautiful light coming in from the window, and it's sort of it just feels ominous.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um but then when Brett goes to the bathroom, you see the his facade crack.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: He's playing this adult game before, but as he goes to the bathroom, you see this facade crack, and by doing that, we just hit him with this glowing, like enveloping uh golden light in the mirror, and that sort of he breaks down there.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you show his vulnerabilities of just this kid getting in over his head.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um and to me, I love noir lighting, and we really played with that there in noir movies, but especially Japanese noir, which isn't something that um people see too often.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I love sort of a lot of that has influenced my work because I looked at it earlier on in my career.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the movies like um Pale Flower, Um Occult is My Passport, Branded to Kill, High Low.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of I love the lighting in those films, and I tr I think that's in my DNA of like when I'm doing this sort of dark noir lighting.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I try to integrate that in.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: I feel I when I watch that scene again, I feel some of those movies um in the in the scene.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's amazing.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: So can you tell us about the scene on the Shars that looks simple on screen, but was a real puzzle to shoot?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: And what happened behind a camera that viewers would never guess?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, I would say the outdoor party scene um at uh um at Susan's party.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um one because it the location was a an enclosed backyard, so we couldn't bring condors in to sort of you would normally bring these sort of moonlight or or or warm con like um condors in with moonlight coming from LEDs or or you know tungsten light coming from the LEDs, but we couldn't do that because um you couldn't fit it into the backyard.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: There was no way.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we had to build the light, we had to build the lighting into the set with these overhead sort of uh globe lights that sort of come down and and through.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then um, but what it allowed us to do was have more fluidity with um um with the visual language, so we could we could shoot 360 and not worry about seeing the lights.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I think that allowed it to give it more motion and um it sh allowed us to stage things in different dimensions of like Robert falling apart, allowed us to really play with that.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: And at the same time, Susie, Debbie, and Tom are dealing with their own issues that we could really play with.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: So having that freedom and that and that set really, really helped us.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but also it looks makes it look simple because we're just 360, but it was a lot of figuring out and a lot of coordinating and a lot of timing to do.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_03: That's amazing.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: So looking back at your episodes, what did the shards push you to try that you hadn't done before?
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: And what would you love viewers to notice when they watch again?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, um, you know, I think anytime you're coming into a show that you didn't shoot the pilot for your you're trying out new styles um and new ideas.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I love what Jason had done earlier on with sort of pushing lighting through blown-out windows and but making it not feel blown out, making it feel like it's part of the character.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: And we I really learned uh how to expand that and how to build on that for our our episodes and how to build that into the language of what the the characters were feeling and in doing um um as the narrative grows.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then we change it as you know episode went on um to episode eight, where it becomes even darker and more muted.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: But um yeah, I think doing that learning usually I try and see outside the windows and and I and uh on a s from a simple DP perspective, and this time blowing through it and building that into the look was was a new thing for me.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's great.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so we're gonna take a final break and we're gonna play a game true or false, and it's time to test some facts about your life and career.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um okay, let's go.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, true or false, as a kid, I paid more attention to how things looked than I realized.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: True.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh true or false, my graphic design background still affects almost every shot I make.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_03: I would say true.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: Uh true or false, the best looking shot can be the wrong shot for the story.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely true.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: I I think uh Deacons talks about that a lot where it's you should be serving the story, not your not your uh your your personal visual look.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: True or false, a scene can become scarier when you show less.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: True.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: Uh true, true or false on the shards.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_03: Beauty sometimes made the danger feel worse.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, true.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: Uh true or false, the most useful idea on set can come from someone who isn't holding the camera.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, true.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I would like to add to that because uh when I'm on set, I really um I try and make it an open environment where everyone can contribute.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm not I I I really like seeing what people think from my crew.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um because you know, they're it's very important to get them involved and to some of the best ideas come from that.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: So very true.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_03: Uh true or false, a problem on set has led to one of my favorite images.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, true.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: And true or false, my Emmy nomination changed how I saw my own work.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh false.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: True or false, I can watch a show I photographed without thinking about how we made it.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot watch a show without thinking about how I made it.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard for me to watch anything I've shot.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: And finally, there's still a kind of story I'm waiting for someone to ask me to shoot.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, there's the so many stories out there that need to be told, yet to be told.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we're gonna move to my final segment recognition range and what comes next.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, you received a 2022 primetime Emmy nomination for photographing, the Ozark Finale, a hard way to go.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: When you think back on that episode, what moment means more to you than the nomination itself?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, uh uh ultimately the nomination is a result of the the crew and and the work they put in um alongside me.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think what's amazing about Ozark was the crew and the directors, where every single person was working not just to work, but to achieve greatness.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's what they were there for.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone, every single person in the crew wanted it to be the best thing possible on TV.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and you could feel that at every moment.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was very intense, everyone was super dedicated.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and Jason Bateman used to say, like, we're not looking for good, we're looking for great.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's just good, we're not gonna do it.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: We it has to be great.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: So every idea um had to had to come to that.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so that was something I took from that show.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: That I tried, you know, I want I tried to make all my sets fun and inviting and inclusive, but I also want the work to be incredible.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so um, and I took that from the show to everything that I do um that wanted to be great.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: Your recent TV work also includes special ops, the Lioness, and Netflix Ransom Canyon.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: What changes uh in your thinking when you move from the pressure of Lioness to the romance and wide open landscape of Ransom Canyon?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and then into the uneasy glamour of the shards.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, uh, what's what's interesting is on on Lioness, we would sometimes use up to five, six cameras, and then believe it or not, going into Ransom Canyon, um, you know, we started off as two cameras, and then most of the time we just started going into three cameras, sometimes four cameras, sometimes five.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: So using some of the principles of Lioness in Ransom Canyon was helpful.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: One, because we had to get a lot of shots to make the day because the schedule was truncated and we were doing double up days.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: It creates an energy when you're working with these three cameras where you can um uh we're primarily three on on ransom, um, where you can, you know, can suit something from long lens far away and then get in closer and closer um and really get very, very different angles that sort of tell the story.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, whereas um the shards was a different was a totally different vibe where where you know the there's more there's more movement into the shots and there's more uh you know tight close-ups that only require one camera, um, even though we had two a lot of the time on Shards.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, there's stuff you can take that you wouldn't think would be appropriate for from like an action story like Lioness to a a love, you know, a Western romance like Ransom Canyon, but actually can can apply very well.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's amazing.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: So if you could show the kid from question one a single scene you've shot, which would you choose?
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_03: What would you want him to know about the road between then and now?
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: Huh.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um a single scene would I choose?
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it would definitely go back to Ozark.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know if it would be I think it would be for an episode where um in Ozark where uh it's it's finalizing Ben's story, um, Laura Lenny's brother, and he he gets fine, they you finally find out what happens to him, he gets shot in the back of the head.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's just this backlight hitting him from the car, and it's such a deeply emotional scene.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: I remember crying on set, being disturbed by it, but it but it was like it ends his story and it shows you where it's from, and um you know, I showing the complexity of emotion that you can bring out from a television show, which I'm not sure.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: I TV was different when I was growing up, so that wasn't really there.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: It was more in the film world, but like um, you know, creating emotion from from from the camera.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think that show is one of them from from Ozark, where he could really show what can be done.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um I could pick a few, but no, that's good.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_03: That's good.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: So uh so Eric, what what tips or recommendations um you would uh uh tell upcoming cinematographers or you wish somebody told you while you're trying to break in?
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like, is there any uh any tips or recommendations or anything that you would tell the upcoming cinematographers?
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean this there's there's so much, but one you know, get out there and shoot and find it's all about finding creative partners.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's so hard.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and but it's easier today to find people.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: So um don't worry about the money part of it when you're first starting, just shoot a bunch of great stuff and hope and it's really not about the equipment anymore.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Every piece of gear can can shoot you can use it if you manipulate in the right way to shoot something beautiful.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean the first and foremost thing is just like I said earlier, say yes, and that you can do it, and then then figure it out afterwards.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and if you fail doing it, well, that's a learning lesson in itself.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I can't count how many times I've learned from failure, and still I'm learning from failure.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's it's a cliche, but it's true.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um because if you're not failing, you're not learning.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um but also um find I think people want to know about style, and like I often get asked like what my style is, and I I would say I don't have I'm sure I have some sort of inherent style that comes out of my work, but I try and find a style for each story that I'm telling that's that's works for the story.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I think you only figure that out by shooting and finding out what you're good at and what what works for you, um and then and then studying the story and feeling what what that will work, what what part of that aspect of your style will work for to tell the story.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um so um and that only comes from shooting a lot.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah um so it's hard to like not it's hard to not worry about um where your career is going, but I think it's more volume and keep it going and and figure out what you love.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's a great tip.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um and finally, Eric, what's next for you?
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_03: Are there any projects you can talk about?
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um right now, no.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um this stuff brewing, but um nothing solid.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's a weird time in the industry.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um so hopefully it gets on weird soon.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: But um right now I'm just doing short form projects, and then hopefully the long form one comes to fruition soon.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's great.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, Eric, we're nearing the end of the show.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: That's all, folks.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for watching, Eric Coretz, everyone.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Eric.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_03: It was a pleasure.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.