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The Mentor Sessions: How to Build a Life of Purpose (Even When You Are Stuck) · The Mentor Sessions

• speaker-1: all human beings seek to be valued. All human beings seek to be loved. All human beings want to contribute to this world. And when the when we see human beings who are not contributing, these are usually very sad people. They're people at odds with the civilization around them. speaker-0: David Kincaid worked for the government for a while. And the best way I'm gonna explain it, but I'll let him explain it better himself. He decided to jump out of the rat race and he's working for himself now, but he's also just traveling the world and and today we're joining him in Germany. So David, thanks for joining us. speaker-1: You got it, McMike. speaker-0: if you want to just tell us a little about yourself and how you ended up where you did. speaker-1: Sure. I was like you mentioned, I was working for the federal government. I worked for them about ten years. I worked for the Department of Commerce in the area of international trade. And so what that really meant was I was helping US companies sell American-made products and services overseas. It's really meant as a way of increasing our our nation's gr gross domestic product of GP. It's a way of, you know, returning profitability back to the American people. And I I spent a good number of years working in nuclear energy for the federal government, also helping companies get nuclear power plant deals overseas. And then I decided to go into the the foreign service, so I became a diplomat for the United States government to Indonesia. And after a while doing that, I sort of hit a brick wall and I I I really have to attribute the the Indonesian people to that. Because here's here were these lovely, lovely people who really are in a lot of poverty and you know they are very low income. But they had such joy and I realized that during that time that I had been looking to fill a hole in my life and that that's why I'd been doing this sort of ladder climbing in my life. And so I I no longer want to participate like that. I I wanted to solve some of those problems. I want to f fill the hole in my in myself and really get myself squared away so that I could be a person who thrives in life. And so I resigned from the federal government and decided to become a a world traveler. And so now I do I do coaching from anywhere in the world and I coach executives and and other people who have professional lives. I help them meet the crossroads at at a time of their life when they are looking to change their lives and and make a and really go on a new adventure for themselves. And I have a lot of experience with going on new adventures as we'll talk about a little bit more. And a lot of experience with reinventing myself for the purpose of really thriving. And and I just want I want to see people thrive. Because I know that when people thrive, when human beings thrive, they just make better decisions. They make they make the world a better place. And and it's a beautiful it's a beautiful world we've got. And and so I'm out I'm out here experiencing that and and helping and supporting people along the way. speaker-0: To me that's just like a a crazy story, a crazy adventure, how did you get into working for the federal government? speaker-1: Yeah, that's a great question. So, you know, I I was in school. I returned to university and we can get a little bit into sort of you know pr what happened before that, what what led up to that. But I'll start with university. I went back to university in my early thirties and I you know, I I needed to work through some things. I even at that time. I had grown up in a very conservative environment and I'm a I'm a gay man and I that didn't go well for me. And so I started studying anthropology and that was so interesting for me because I got to study human cultures and I got to do a lot of comparison of human cultures and see what is really truly uniquely human and that really helped me kind of understand my own status as a person. I spent four years doing that, completed that with honors, and then I went into a master's program in international affairs and economics. And when I came out of that, I applied for what's called the Presidential Management Fellows Program, or PMF. And that's a that's a program really designed to help young and talented minds get into the federal government so that there is a a queue of very capable people always coming into the federal government. And I and I won a fellowship, which was itself a great honor. It's a White House sponsored fellowship. And so that gave me incredible access in the federal government. I was then hired by the Department of Commerce's International Trade Administration, where I then focused specifically on international trade and and fostering global environments where US businesses are able to do business around the world and Yes, that's what got me into the federal government. speaker-0: So was your interest in anthropology was that an interest in trying to help you discover your own identity and as you were trying to come to grips with the reinvention and being okay being gay. I know coming from conservative backgrounds, that can be very hard, especially when the family can't accept you for who you are. Are are those two linked in any way? speaker-1: Absolutely they're linked. You know, I I had I'd been kicked out of my family and out of the church and and I'd been I had gone to a religious university earlier on in my life. I was a I was a pianist. So I was so I actually went to university originally studying piano performance and theology. And I really had wanted to from early on I I loved the spiritual space. and so I really wanted to participate there. But you know, life saw to it that that was not going to be the case. And after you know, a brief stint being homeless and coming out of that and truly trying to get myself reoriented, I realized that I really loved the school environment. I l I was very intellectual. I did very well in high school and I I loved reading and studying and and I was good at it. And so I decided to go back to university and with the help of a psychotherapist who specializes in career transitions. She was just wonderful. She really helped me understand what what my passion is. And my passion is really travel and it has been for an incredible long time. so that that really put anthropology as a subject matter onto the map. And you know, anthropology really is just the study of peoples and cultures. And what I began to kind of get into is concepts like masculinity. Like what is what does it really mean to be male? What does it mean to be a masculine person? And it turns out that there is an incredible variety out there in the world. And so, you know, this this is what made me just fall in love with it is just to understand people better and to understand. What is uniquely human versus what is culturally human. Because they're they're two very different things. And you know, it tur it turns out that that we humans have a lot more in common than we think. but this thing called culture has us express that humanity in very different ways. And, you know, I I when I first went back, I was nervous about. You know, is this gonna be the right thing for me? And like I said, I was in my early 30s, and so I was nervous about that. So I took just one class in intro to anthropology. And I can remember sitting in that class and the professor coming in and starting on her lecture on that particular class. And I remember just saying to myself, muttering under my breath, this is home for me. I felt such an affinity. for the subject and for just being able to inquire into like what does it mean to truly be human. speaker-0: So what have you learned in that answer? Because that's something that's always fascinated me. And and you know, a big part of I believe the the interconnection between the mentors and mentor sessions and the human connection is you know, when we started out as as cultures and and if you will, developing civilization, we had to have those mentors. And we know now about the great ones we have like Socrates, Aristotle, you know, those people, Marcus Aurelius that really helped shape who our culture is and and who we are and and we look to those I will say for myself as the early mentors as the early teachers that helped bring us from if you will that pre-civilization into civilization and to help modernize civilization right So what have you learned about the role of people like that, of good teachers, good philosophers, and the people that I call mentors in developing where we are today? speaker-1: Well, you mentioned some of the great thinkers and you know, they've been called philosophers, and it's easy to dismiss, I think, philosophy because it seems very like, you know, hocus pocusy and very high level. But I think that what what they were able to do is to establish some of the the concepts around how to think about culture and how to think about our own humanity. You know, and and they They began to point the way to some of the commonalities among human beings. You know, like for example, all human beings seek seek to be valued. All human beings seek to be loved. All human beings want to contribute to this world. And when the when we see human beings who are not contributing, these are usually very sad people. They're people at odds with the civilization around them. And so it That's actually validation of that assumption, right? Because it's really a breakdown in our culture when somebody isn't contributing, because that is such a desire. And you know, the other thing is that that we are eternally bound to one another. It's been proven time and time again, both accidentally and on purpose through study, it's been proven that human beings cannot survive by themselves. Like no individual is capable of surviving. In fact, Even children as they go through their socialization process, things like you know, touching them and hugging them and this physicality actually develops the nervous system in our body. Our brains develop through that. You know, connection with the world around them develops through that. And so, you know, this this process, because you know, we're we're very strange as mammals because we're we're birthed out of our mothers. so weak and actually very incapable of living on our own. You know at like giraffes or elephants or these other animals or horses, you know, they're born and and within hours of their birth, they're able to walk around. They're able to eat on their own. Right. Human but human beings aren't. And so it you know, that's partially a a biological evolution of our brains and the size of our heads and how that fits through the womb and all these kinds of sciencey things. But you know what that really points to is this extraordinary need that we have to share in this collective community of human beings. And I think, you know, what you're pointing to with these mentors is that they they have done the thinking early on to recognize our both our limitations and our vast capacity. We have a huge capacity. to to be and to think and to to be conscious and and this whole thing this whole life experience is it's just a huge adventure and you know and we enter into it literally without a guidebook so there's you know there's no training material for us to or training program for us to go through that is our socialization that is our growing up period and these thinkers really paved the way for how to think about that process, how to be intentional about it, how to do it on purpose so that we can create something that we out of our willpower that out of that we can do it out of that kind of intention. speaker-0: Yeah, I mean that's so interesting. And I actually kind of liked something you mentioned there that you said the the great thinkers, they they they opened up our knowledge to outside and and growing and expanding. You know, when we look at human development and and these are the things I'm very fascinated by. When we look at human development as an early tribal stage, when we were still forming small tribes and small communities for survival. Because like you said, and it's so funny when you mention that we are meant to survive together. We survive together. I I watched a little video on Reels or TikTok the other day. I won't try to not remember which one. But it was a baby turtle on Hawaii that had just hatched and was fighting its way to the sea. And people were sitting there and it was so cute. People were sitting there cheering it on. And of course, someone wanted to be like, well, let's make a trail for him. And and someone's like, No, we're not gonna mess with it. This is what he he needs to learn how to get there himself. Or, you know, some someone else suggested picking up and putting in the water. And it was, no, he has to do this for himself. Whereas and and that's how the the the turtle learns and grows and develops. Whereas for us, we that's what we actually need. That's that's the path we take with you know, and it started out millions of years ago or hundreds of thousands of years ago in small communities to help us survive, you know, the attack of the the apex predators at the time and to help us eat and thrive. And so your your tribe was your circle. And then we started connecting tribes of like minded people. And then we started building city states, you know, the I I just watched Odyssey. So, you know, the great city state of city states of Greece. And building and building and then th those eventually became empires and stuff like that. But it all comes back to that core. And I this is one of my own personal beliefs of that smaller community within the larger community. And I think you mentioned something and and I'll let you get to your thoughts on it that those early great thinkers They helped us connect our small community to the greater world and the greater community. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, your story about the turtle reminds me of a of a separate story about a Chinese nobleman who saw the chrysalis of a of a caterpillar, you know, where you know caterpillars transform into butterflies. And you know, as the story goes, he noted that that the chrysalis was wiggling and you know that the creature was was struggling to get out. And so He used a sharp blade and he opened up the chrysalis to facilitate the butterfly coming out. And so the butterfly came out, but within hours died. And what he began to note in the story is that there's something about the butterfly having to struggle out of that cocoon, out of that chrysalis, in order to make it possible. And so so that's a butterfly, and we're not butterflies, but but we are human beings. And we do have to struggle. And so I think you know, one of the things about great mentors is that they know the distinction between teaching you the mind, right? Telling you information versus allowing the person to have to go through their own struggles in life. You know, I think about young teenagers who fall in love and then somebody breaks up with them and they're just distraught beyond belief. But when When they're supported in this moment, they the struggle that they're going through is very necessary for them to understand their own emotional makeup. They have to understand that there's also loss in the world, that other people have choices in the matter, that they're not always going to be chosen, right? That that and so this it you know it comes out as disappointment or hurt or frustration or whatever the case may be. But this is a very necessary piece of being human because part of being human is being disappointed. We get disappointed, we get upset, we get hurt, we get turned down by others. And this is a beautiful thing, right? Because we don't, we don't we can stand on our own. We get to love ourselves in a mix, and we get to know that that person's choice, the person who breaks up with us, that's not it's not a commentary. On whether or not we're a good person or not. It's simply a will, a choice of will. Right. So you know, not all of us are meant to be together in those particular ways. And so you can kind of see how in this teenage space, that's that's one way that human beings perform this struggle, like the butterfly does, to become a more beautiful creature. And when we come positively through it, we we learn to value other people's emotional state. And we we gain sensitivity and we gain thoughtfulness, we gain the idea that we can think outside of ourselves, that we're not just a selfish creature looking for our own needs to be fulfilled. speaker-0: Well, you know, the thing about the story is, and and as we contrast it to humanity and and our human connections, that that butterfly needed that struggle, that that young turtling, if you know, whatever a young turtle's called, they need those struggles and to go through those struggles alone to guild build that strength The butterfly struggling out of the the the cocoon, that's building the strength to build the wings and you know, those small moments is building the strength of that butterfly. But we and we as kids and as teenagers, and we're going through that hurt, that is hurt that we're going to feel ourselves. But we have the luxury, if you will, we don't have to walk that path alone. we're not walking it alone. We have support to be there for us to say, you hurt right now. But it you don't have to hurt alone. I think there's good and bad to it, to be honest, when people say, it's okay, you're gonna be okay, it's gonna be fine. because at that moment it's such an empty platitude. We know that because we've gone through that, especially those of us that are older. We know it because we've gone through it. But when you tell someone who is in the in the moment, it you can't you don't feel that. You just feel the hurt. And it's hard to see. So as we offer that opportunity to people to say, you're not gonna, I'm not gonna let you sit here alone. I am going to sit here with you. if you compare it to like let's say a mud pit or Or something. You're sitting in the mud pit, but I'm not going to let you sit alone. And when you're ready to get out of the mud pit, I'm ready to help you get out of the mud pit. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, that's that's really beautiful and I love that. And I think that that's what a good mentor actually does. You know, in my own work as a coach, you know, people come to me with all kinds of problems and there's a lot of pain and suffering and a lot of tears. My job is not to feel that with them. I can empathize. speaker-0: Right, right. speaker-1: Empathy is when I can recognize within myself a similar experience. And so therefore I recognize in them that same experience. And then so the empathy allows me to relate to them, but I'm not feeling that same emotion. Like there's no way that I can take away the emotional experience that someone else is having when it's that kind of a negative emotion. But what I can do is I can be present. And and compassionate about where their experience is is at this moment. And there's something really special about that. You know, it's like it's like when we know, aha, there's somebody who's got my back. There's somebody who's holding my hand. And and I mean metaphorically here, because I do my a lot of my work through Zoom, so I'm not going around holding people's hands. But but you know, metaphorically holding their hand, like they get to know that they're still valued, cared for. and they have a place in our society, they have a place in their lives and in the world around us. Like they bel they belong, but they're the only ones who can experience that emotion right now. I may have had that on some other occasion when they weren't present, you know, and so I'm present for their emotional state, but they have to have it. They have to do the work to work through it. And so I think a good mentor is someone who supports that work, who can provide feedback and reflection. I think that's one of my greatest gifts, is the ability to reflect back to people what they're going through, to let let them see themselves through me. Right. Because because I can't tell them I don't I'm not that person. I'm not supremely wise. I'm not God or or you know the infinite knowledge of the universe. I'm just this person right here. I've had my unique set of experiences. But what I can do is I can be a mirror for them to let them see themselves for all the difficulty that it is, but all the beauty that it is. And there's and human beings are just beautiful. speaker-0: know I can only take my own personal val my own personal life experiences and and traumas and stuff. But when you have someone who when you're hurting and they say, I see you, I still love you. Because when we're hurting, it's hard to feel loved. It's hard for us to love ourselves, right? So when somebody just stops and says, I see you, I still love you, I'm here for you. That sometimes is the biggest bandage or or whatever to help us get out of there to be like, okay, what's happened to me has happened. And and now I can move on because people still believe in who I am and what I have to offer. as as empty as I think it can sound, sayings like, you know, hey, there's other fishes in the sea. It's someone using a metaphor or using a cloak. Colloquialism tell us that person wasn't right for you. And we may have known it all along, hey, now let's go get someone that deserves you and deserves what you have to offer. speaker-1: Exactly. Yeah, and and no, I I understood you absolutely correctly. the other thing that a mentor offers is hope and another possibility. Because you know, one of the things that our brain does to us that's kind of nasty is that when we're sitting in these negative emotions, the mind wants to tell us that we're always going to feel that way. Right? It's it's called speaker-0: one hundred percent. I agree completely. in in spiritual life and and in religion and stuff like that, we talk about the the demons and the devils and and so you know, I might give them their props to say that there there's somewhat something to that, but I think those demons and devils for me they're very self created because they're born out of the trauma, they're born out of the hurt and they just live there. And, you know, you could be decades past the traumatic experience. I'm sure you know you're at that stage from what it must have been like when you got kicked out of your home and were homeless and and trying to accept who you were. And you can move on and be better and but those demons still love to to pop up and remind you of who you once were. And and when they're there and you don't get the chance to feel Hey, that's not me anymore. Yep. And and I think that's where having a good a good tribe, a good mentor, and and still relying on those things in our later years. So that way when we start feeling that, we can reach out or they can reach out and say, That's the lie. Here's the truth again. speaker-1: That's exactly right. And that's what that's what I'm referring to when I talk about like reflecting people back to themselves. Because you know, you you've mentioned trauma. And trauma is so difficult because it's really tied to memory. Right. So we have this memory of an experience, and the memory wants to say to us, it's going to be like that again. Right. And and you know, there's a pi piece of us that don't that doesn't ever want to have that happen again. Right. And so like it's terrifying. Right. And that's what PTSD really is, is PTSD is kind of like reliving that past experience as though it's going on right now. Right. And that's that's a a little bit of a trick of the mind. And so, you know, we we have to be able to work through that and get to a place where we can understand that no, we're the authors of our lives. We can actually author what's going to happen in the future because the past is not a predictor of the future. It may, it may, you know, when we touch a hot burner and we burn our fingers, that's that's a good lesson to learn. It's it's the lesson is don't touch the hot burner. Right. But sometimes if we get into relationships, it's not as good a teacher because we get hurt in a relationship. And if we immediately assume, well, then maybe I should never be in a relationship. Well, that's that actually goes against being human, right? Being human beings want to be in relationships. We want intimacy in our lives. We want love relationships. And so we have to dare a little bit to go into the possibility of hurt. Right. Because when we dare that, we actually get to learn how to navigate these waters of hurt instead of just avoiding them altogether. Right. Because like avoiding them also cancels out the joy. Right. We we can't avoid hurt and Have just love. Like we have to, like going into love means that we're risking being hurt. And so I think that's what a good mentor does as well is reflects these human truths back to people and helps to remind them in a moment when their minds are saying, my gosh, it's going to always be this way forevermore. I'm going to hurt forevermore. And just being like, no, nope. That's the trick of the mind. You know, like, how about you know? How about I reflect back to you the possibility of what joyousness and what love that there is available for you in the future? speaker-0: being completely open and vulnerable here, reminding people this is who we see and this is who you really are. when my trauma kicks off and and my demons kick off, they love to tell me how worthless and how how little I contribute to the world when when I actually know that's not the truth at all. You know, and the fact that I have people my very close inner circle and of course at the top of that would be my my wife to remind me that's that's not who you really are. You know, let me remind you who you really are and what you really offer. You know, like I I was saying before we started today, I had the past month with my grandkids. And seeing their love and feeling their love for me has really, really helped remind me, okay, I do have something more to offer than what I realize, trying to put a two year old to sleep at night is is a very traumatic experience, I think, for both, especially a grandfather. but then at seven o'clock in the morning when they wake up and the first thing they want to do is give you a hug and a kiss and tell you they love you. No matter what happened the night before, it's a brand new day, it's a brand new start. And you know, it's like pop pop, let's go, get out of bed. It's time to go and play and have fun together. And you know, that's a reminder that. Whatever happens in the past is in the past, we can change the future, and the past doesn't get to define who we are. And that's one of my guiding themes. Is was one of the things I told a lot of people when I was in law enforcement, and they were in jail and they were talking about, well, this is just who I am. And I'm like, No, this is who you are right now. But this doesn't get to define who you are going to be the rest of your life. You can, if you choose to. get your kids back in your life. You can, if you choose to, be a productive member of society. You can be break your addiction. You have to work on it. And and seeing people accept that in their life. And now being so far removed, but I still get to see these people on social media or talk to them through text. And it's like seeing that they accepted that I am not my past. I get to build a new future has been so beautiful to watch. You know, it's as beautiful as getting to watch your your two year old grow into the people that they become. It's just so humbling and beautiful that you get to watch people become who they are. And I'm sure that I'm gonna speak for you. I'm sure that's the bet one of the best things you get as a coach now. is watching people grow into who who you see in them. speaker-1: Yeah, and you know, and I'm gonna push back just a slight little bit 'cause I 'cause I love your speaker-0: That's not allowed on the mentor session. speaker-1: Ha ha. speaker-0: No, go ahead. I appreciate it. That's how we learn. speaker-1: Story of that is how I learned. And and you know, it's it's all about like, you know, t tweaking ideas and and playing with ideas out out here in this space. And so I I love that you're doing this, Mike. And you know, your story about putting the putting your grandkids to bed and and how that can be a traumatic experience. And then you notice like the next morning, it's it's like it's all washed away. Right. And this is the beauty of really small children, and I think that this is part of who we are as human beings, is that We really do live in the moment, but we're taught by our society to carry all those moments like you know, like a ball and chain with us through our lives. And so a lot of like trauma work or working through things like PTSD, and you know, I've I've actually helped a Vietnam war vet work through PTSD, and it was really amazing to see, you know, when we stop trying to make it go away and we begin to embrace, yes, that is a memory that you have, but that is not the defining case. Like you get to you get to close your eyes and you get to like reopen them. And then the world is anew again. You know, and and it's really tough because you know these things are really heavy, heavy experiences. and you know the pushback a a little bit here is that, you know, in a really healthy human being, we don't rely on Other people to define our value. speaker-0: We don't rely on other people defining our values. I I agree with you 100%. What I the the what I was trying to say and thanks for the point to clarify is when we are in those moments. So I I too have PTS, I suffer from a lot of that. That's why I'm in a lot of therapy and a lot of that is trauma based, right? my therapist and my wife and my inner circle, they don't define who I am. They get to help me They help me When I can't see that for myself. When I get so locked into that trauma, they they don't define who I am. I've already I know who I am. I wrote down my defining values a long time ago. You know, I know who I am. But when I am so locked into and and when we get so locked into trauma, I know addiction is very related to trauma, and when we link trauma and addiction together, we for we don't have the ability to recognize those defining characteristics. it's not that they aren't there. Very good. Because, you know, I've I'll tell you when I worked in the jails and stuff like that, you would have you'd have these people come in where it was it was, you know a a 13 round bout with Mike Tyson just to get them to to get in the door sometimes. But once the systems, the drugs were out of the system, once they were meeting with mental health counselors, maybe once they were getting with getting on the proper medication and they weren't street using the street meds to to to medicate you see who they really are and what they can contribute. They don't define who we we get to define who we are, but they get to help Maybe keep that fire stoked. speaker-1: Yeah, no, I love that. And you know, that's kinda why I use the mirror analogy. It's like we we reflect speaker-0: Yeah, that's a great analogy and I appreciate that. speaker-1: Yeah, we reflect back each other that that value. And you know, y you're right, you know, trauma can can sort of interrupt the natural flow of our of our lives. And it and what trauma does is it takes us out of this knowing who we are. And it, you know, it puts us into this other space of thinking that we're something other than what we are. And we're nothing but beautiful creators. Like that's that's who we're born to be. Like Like it's no it's no wonder that kids love to do arts and crafts and and make things and build sand castles and forts and whatever kids, you know, whatever it is that kids are doing, but they're constructing something, they're making something, they're creating something, they're expressing the natural being that they are. And it's and it's just really, really wonderful. And so whenever we see something that's other than that, we can know. This is back to the anthropology, we can know. That is not naturally human to them. And so we can, as supporters and as mentors of others, we can reflect back who you are as a creator. You are not a destroyer. You are you are a creator. And that is such an amazing thing. And you know, you don't have to be an Instagram, you know, creator or TikTok creator or a famous artist or a famous singer, in order to be a creator, we can create things we create things all the time in our lives. In fact, we we even have the expression, you created a real problem there. Right? We can even create our own problems. we're very, very good at creating. And so I think a a lot of of good mentorship is about helping to reflect back people, you know, who what their origins are. Right. And I love that you you commented about writing down your values because that's where it starts. It's like because our values are what lights us up. It's they're kind of our guiding light, our guiding star. Right. And so it helps us in our bodies. And our bodies are so important. This is the vessel that we're inside of for the time. And you know, we didn't necessarily choose our bodies. So we just get the body that we got. And so being able to embrace the what we've been given, this is a gift. But it's also it's it's like I call it the dashboard sometimes. Because you know, it lights up and it and it does like all kinds of bells and whistles and makes sounds and all kinds of stuff. But it's the it's the experiential dashboard to say where where is right for you. And only you or I can actually determine that for ourselves. Right. So so part of part of the work that I I like to do with people is to help them get back in touch with their bodies and love these things. Like and listen to the signals that are coming up. Right. Those are all signals. And they're not signals about who's wrong in the world. Right. We don't need to worry about who's wrong or who's right. You know, we spend a great deal of energy doing that. And it's really wasted energy because it doesn't matter at the end of the day. The only thing that matters is what lights you up, like what What makes you feel excited? What gets your passions stirred? That's the place to lean into. You know, I I remember a number of years back, you know, because I I also have gone through addiction and whatnot. And you know, I like to I like to remind people about addiction. Addiction comes because everyone wants to feel good. Right? speaker-0: one hundred percent. Yeah. speaker-1: So when you don't feel good, people reach out and try to grab on to things that make them feel good. And I'm sorry, but drugs make people feel good. Alcohol makes people feel good. You know, addictions to relationships, addictions to religion, addictions to shopping. These are all things that make person feel good for a moment. Right. And so we so it's there's a learning in there about well, what what makes me truly feel good in the long run? Right. And it's it's not drugs or or alcohol or you know other relationships. And so getting in tune with what does the body say about feeling good? Feeling good is like that's you want to lean into that. So when I went to a therapist, I remember saying one time, I said, you know, I have no mastery over what I like, I have no idea. And so I began to very slowly go through a process where I would select an activity. And I would go do the activity and I would look into my body and I'd and I would I would examine did this activity make me feel good and positively about myself or did it detract and steal energy away from myself? Because my body is telling me. And I mean one of my things, I like to use the example of museums, you know, and that's not everybody's cup of tea, and that's why I like that as an example. Because some people really despise museums. They don't ever want to step foot in another museum again. Right. I am very different. I love museums and I want to go to all of them in the whole world. And I learned that by because one of my activities was to go to a local museum and just walk inside and just notice, just come to peace and notice. Whew, that just makes me feel so good to be in here. And that's how I knew. And so then I could repeat that. It's like, you know, rinse and repeat. And you just keep doing that. And and pretty soon it becomes a familiar pathway. It's like, the body feels like this, it's telling me it likes that. It's like a little puppy along with you. It's like you you can see the puppy, you can see the dog pulls the leash. It's like, well, I don't want to do that. But when he's like very excited and it's like, you know, all very energized, the puppy does like to do that. And so so our bodies are not so dissimilar. No. So I think a good mentor helps us see that. speaker-0: I have a question that I wanted to ask as you've traveled the world, and I know you've been to some very interesting places. I think you've been to like places like Vietnam, Indonesia, you're in Germany now. What is one thing you've learned about the human experience that might surprise the listeners? We all share. speaker-1: I think the longing for purpose. I think it's a tremendous longing for purpose. You know, and and you're right, you know, I lived in Indonesia for four years. I speak the I speak the language, and that was a really amazing place. And it's a it's a Muslim country, it's ninety percent Muslim. And that was unusual for me. I had never I had never been to nor had I lived in a Muslim country before. And you know, I of course I come from a Christian tradition in the United States. and you know, there's all the things that are said about Muslims in the United States and and you know, all that was percolating through my mind. But I got there and I had a staff member who was Muslim and she was very she was in the beginning she was not devout at all, but she she had a stroke about three months after I got there. And in the moments that the stroke was happening, she whispered a prayer to Allah that she would become devout if He saw to it that she lived. And she did. Well, over the next several weeks and into months, I began to work with her. the embassy itself was not very responsive in a positive way to her needs, and she had been a 20-year employee of the embassy, and I was kind of shocked by all this, and so. I went to the hospital, which was very difficult thing to do. It's emotionally quite difficult because hospitals there, they don't have nurses or anything of that kind. So families move into rooms as caregivers. You know, that includes everything from like water to bathroom and food and everything. So it was it was and there's four patients per room and each of them have their families there. And so there were people sleeping under the beds and beside the beds and behind the beds, and there was just people everywhere in this room. It was extremely overwhelming. But she lit up like the sun when I walked into that room and so did her family. They were so thrilled to see somebody from the embassy come. And over the next several months, you know, I began to work with her. She had some speech problems. She forgotten she had it had affected the part of her brain that gives her English or allows for the foreign language to be stored. And so she lost her English capabilities. And so one of the things I did is I asked her if she had ever had a dream. And she said that one of her dreams was to give a speech in front of an audience in English. And so I said, Well, that's what we're gonna do. And so I worked with her over the next year, and I I had to go and do my own research with some doctors in the United States and like sort of consult with them and ask them, you know. What what does this young woman, what is she needing? Like this is this is what I know about her diagnosis. What is what's going on here? And so I got to learn a lot about how the brain works. And I began to work with her daily. And she very quickly got her English back. And before I left, she did a speech in front of 300 people. And it was it's an incredibly moving experience for me to have seen somebody go through that. But that was a a a form of purpose for her. Right, that was a drive for her, like a longing to to bring value into the world out of herself. And she was willing to go to incredible lengths to do so. And I think that that is common across the whole planet. And I think that, you know, to in today's world, when we see people who are disenfranchised and, you know, homeless or in our jail systems, or, you know, depressed or suicidal and or alcoholics or Whatever the case may be, these are people who have gotten this disconnected from a sense of profound purpose. They want to feel meaning in their lives. And every one of us wants, that's why I said the very beginning: people want to be contributors. They want to give. It is a gift to give, and it's also a gift to receive, because when we receive from others. we're allowing them, we're giving them the space to fulfill their destiny, to fulfill their purpose, and they're doing so with us. And I think that I think it's one of the most beautiful things to see across cultures and across traditions throughout throughout the world today. speaker-0: You know, you made me think of something when you were saying that, and that is that I think maybe part of that comes from we're very tribal. And if they feel like they're not contributing to the success of the tribe, that's where all those other negative feelings about themselves come in. Because I think you make a great point that we want to contribute to the tribe. We want to show our value to the tribe and if we're not able to do that, it we wonder our purpose. I know when I retired from law enforcement and I was trying going through that transition thinking one day, I have I don't provide anything anymore. And that hit me hard and it hit me negatively. but again it I needed those people in my life to remind me, yes, you still do. You still are providing to to the tribe, if you will. David, it's been a a an amazing talk. very fascinating. we're hook up again in in the future to to discuss this more. especially what you've learned in your travels because I think that's so important because I think one of the things I think the media and politicians love to do is divide us in a sense of re pointing out our differences. But at the end of the day, we're all humans and we're all trying to navigate this human existence. And if we worked if we were more cooperative in that, we'd see a lot less hurt in the world. So thank you so much. is there a mentor in your own life that you'd love to shout out and make sure they get some recognition for how they impacted you? speaker-1: I'd love to actually, I mean, you can see the background behind me. This I I'm in Germany. I'm at a friend's house here in Germany. She owns a lovely house. But the way that I got here to Germany was I was an exchange student in 1987, 88, and I was just 16 years old when I arrived. My host parents, in particular, my host mom, her name's Margaret Abel. She was such an amazing woman. So amazing. She became a leader in her family for a higher way, a higher calling, for for greater purpose, for greater management of conflict. She soon became a a a leader of seminars and she she trained other people in how to really think about themselves and the world around them in more open and more conscientious ways. And she she was so welcoming to me in in a And, you know, my own family, you know, of course I went through times when they weren't that welcoming to me. And she showed me that there's another way. She showed me that there is a a a place of being accepted and loved for exactly who I am. And she has throughout my life been one of the greatest mentors I've ever had. speaker-0: Beautiful story. Thank you, David, so much for coming onto the mentor sessions. I greatly appreciated it. You know, the fun thing is about these conversations, I never know what direction they're gonna take. I actually thought we were gonna, we'll probably get into more of his diplomatic side and and the stuff he learned being a diplomat. Maybe we'll have to pick that up some other time. But we went a different route and and I'm glad the universe took us down that road because I think it's a very important message. Thank you everybody for tuning in to Mentor Sessions. I'm your host, Big Mike. Please share this message. Leave a comment of what you thought and the mentors that impacted you in your life. And subscribe so you can catch us more on the the Mentor Sessions podcast. Thank you. speaker-1: Thank you.