Latest / Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves / EP158: Sandile Masuku - From Football to Software

Transcript

EP158: Sandile Masuku - From Football to Software · Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: So talk to me about your journey.
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Eight, nine, you start to recognise okay, you've got some talent.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: At what point did you really start to dream about what football could mean or do for you?
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: So I was watching Manchester United Football Club back when they were winning a lot of things.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: That kind of inspired me because it was like it showed me where football can take you.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: So seeing them win and I was going through a time where I was winning as well I was also winning manager's player of the year, top goal scorers, et cetera.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: So when you're winning you take that you're in your flow state where you continue winning and you don't know anything else other than winning.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: So your head naturally feels you're going to make it like you're unstoppable.
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: So that's where football kind of played a part in me, and then so my journey from Bradford City.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Ryan Gonsalves and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, A show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes.
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: Elite athletes are still people after all.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Let's be inspired by the stories of others.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Sandy, welcome to the Second Wind Academy podcast, all about finding career clarity.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Very nice to meet you, ryan.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Thank you for the invite.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: You are more than welcome and it's good you are out and about.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: We'll have a good conversation today.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: I'm sure pick up where we left off last time and learn a little bit more about what you're up to and some of your background.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been quite a journey so far.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: I'm very excited to share with yourself and everyone else who's listening.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Good man, good man.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: It's exactly what we want to hear.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Let's kick off.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Tell us a bit about who you are and, I suppose, what you're currently working on.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: So who am I?
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Firstly, I was born in South Africa, came to the UK when I was two years old, so roughly 2005 or so, so I started playing football from a young age.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Since the age of six, I'd like to say yeah.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Since then it's been a football journey.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Up to now, I've just diverted, just graduated in software engineering and currently in the mix of starting my own startup company in agriculture.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Well, I like the sound of that.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Tell me more about what you're starting up in agriculture so.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: I have a few meetings with a few farmers down in South Africa something to do with blockchain technology in the trading farmers trading world, just to secure and provide safety to farmers and access to world markets in terms of trading.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: So it's something exciting's side.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: It's exciting.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: I've um, I've been cooking up recently.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: I may be asking you loads of questions more about that.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Blockchain technology something I've certainly followed from my time in government as well and seeing it has taken off quite a bit when we look at that the farming value chain and being able to know where stock is and as consumers become more and more interested in source to supermarket or source to shelf what inspired you to get into that avenue recently?
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: my parents have actually bought a farm, so they inspired me really to look into the agricultural world, and it's something that's always been around, since the very first ages of like human existence.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Like farming, building your own food.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: It's something that's never going to, since the very first ages of like human existence.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Like farming, building your own food is something that's never going to go away.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: So, in this world where everything's changing and there's so much uncertainty, the certainty is obviously agriculture I like that and that was quite interesting.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: I definitely like you going back into, I'm going to say, to the roots of human existence in terms of agriculture and farming not where I thought we were going to go today, but I quite like that.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: And when you talk about just investigating or moving into this startup world, how have you found that?
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: It's been tough because I'd say, allocating time to once you've got everything else you need to do in terms of your day-to-day tasks work, family, social life, etc.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Finding that time to allocate it to building your own kind of business and identity.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: It's allocating time and effort to be able to make a good transition into that.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: So that's what I found difficult mostly.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: But I'm not rushing.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: I know it's going to take time, so as long as there's no kind of time limit on that, it can take as long as it needs to take.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: I'm sure I'll get there eventually and I guess you must have an interest in tech, then, or in certain in that block blockchain technology at least you mentioned you were, you've just finished your, or recently graduated.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, so I picked up soft engineering three years ago and I've that's what I've.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: For the past three years that's what I've devoted all my time to learning new skills, picking up new languages, and also now, since I've finished my internship at Enterprise Mobility, I've learned how to incorporate tech and business and because of the nature of enterprise and how it teaches you how to control costs in the business, how to be able to just generate new costs, new business new give you all the like, the skills you need to go.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: So that's what I've built together, both my own learning and learning.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: I've learned from my internship to mix together.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: For the start, I quite like that.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: So what is it you're doing at Enterprise?
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: So I did a internship in business management and then I've been promoted as a management assistant and I'll be looking into product ownership as well from September, etc.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: So there's been at the company two and a half years.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: Although it's been a blast, it doesn't feel like it's been that long at all.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Maybe we'll come back and talk a bit about what you're learning and how you're learning at Enterprise.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: I think, as we step through your journey, it's going to be quite interesting as a route to I don't know this transition that we're really going to be talking about and identifying and building on some new skills.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: So it's going to be quite interesting to delve into how you've been able to do that through a corporate, a global corporate like Enterprise.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Now, when we opened up, we spoke, you mentioned a little bit about football and football being a part of this journey.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: It sounds like sport, then, for you, has been quite important in your life.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Talk to me a little bit about the beginnings of your football journey.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Where were you and when did you start to realize, hey, I might be good at this?
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: my first kind of time playing football it was after school.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: It was after school social club.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: My parents just moved to the country.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: So in terms of like integration it wasn't quite there yet and in terms of speaking a language etc.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: It took some catching up.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: But the coach kind of spoke to my dad and said you might have a play here.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: So that kind of got my dad more invested and he came to watch me.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: He used to play himself, so he knows if you have a bill.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: So I impressed him and then that kind of led me him to signing me up to a team, just a Sunday league, and through Sunday league within my first season I got Managers, player of the Year, I scored quite a few goals and I was scouted for Bradford City.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: So that's where the journey took off.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: And yeah so.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: And so what age were you?
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: So that was roughly under eights, under nines between those two years.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: So where you talk it's like, I'm sure, for many listening who aren't going to know so much about football, but what they're going to be thinking is, wow, it got scouted.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: There was talent guy, must have been maybe 15, 16, but we're talking in england here, eight, nine years old, been scouted as someone with a bit of talent and signing least signing in the, I'll say, the academy or development teams of a professional club.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so in England it can really start from a very young age.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: So that's where you leave.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: You got a bit from young, but sometimes there are some late bloomers.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: But mostly if you are young, that's where more success is.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Sandy, what do you reckon they saw in you at eight, nine years old?
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: I think I used to be a left-back.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: so I've changed my position now, but back then I was probably a left-back.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: So I think they saw a bit of tenacity and a bit of will to not give up.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: So that's something that football's taught me over the years Never give up and always keep going.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: So talk to me about your journey.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Eight, nine, you start to recognise OK, you've got some talent.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: At what point did you really start to dream about what football could mean or do for you?
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: So I was watching Manchester United Football Club back when they were winning a lot of things.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: That kind of inspired me because it was like it showed me where football can take you.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: So, seeing them win, I was going through a time where I was winning as well.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: I was also winning Managers', player of the Year, top Goal Scorers, etc.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: So when you're winning you're in your flow state where you continue winning and you don't know anything else other than winning, so your head naturally feels like you're going to make it unstoppable.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: So that's where football kind of played a part in me.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: And then so my journey from Bradford City.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: I stayed at Bradford City for two, three years and then I got released and I played.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: I was playing.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: I was back playing with my Sunday League club, which is West End, which we won the league that.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: From there I was going to go into just college because I didn't have any offers to play anywhere else.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: I was going to go into college and do a sports diploma or English language because it was GCSE time and I did quite well From there.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: One of my old coaches who used to coach me said he's got a position for me under the Barnsley football programme.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: I decided to give it a go.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: First game did very well.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: It was actually a game against them which I scored two goals and then from there it was like you can come back.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: So that's where it all started, that journey which ended that season which I was 16, 16.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: So after that season in 2018, they took 18 to 19 season I got Manager's Player of the Year again.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: When you're getting those awards at such that age at 16, 17, manager's Player of the Year you feel like you have a real opportunity and a big chance to take it to the next step, which is professional.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: But as a 19-20 season, it was cut short due to COVID, so that kind of was a big roadblock in the journey.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: So let me understand, you're playing at Bradford, bradford City.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: They released you what sounds like under 14s, 15s.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you go back.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: You spend a year then playing park football or for your local team.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: You actually won, you guys in a good squad.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: You got invited to come back at Barnsley, basically as a trial for their 16s or like in their scholar program as well yeah so you do your GCSEs, you then go full-time with Barnsley, is that right?
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: And what was that like for you then?
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: it was relieved.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: Hope because it was.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: It revived a bit of fire in me because from going to from, I was literally going to college and thought I'd just play maybe Saturday, sunday, from there, and then I didn't have a plan.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: But as soon as I got the call to say you've got a chance, it gave me something to go ahead and fight for again and I was already staying fit and sharp because I always knew something would be around the corner.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: To be honest, my parents, my family, went on holiday that year but I already told them from November not to get me a ticket to go with them, because I said I want to train all summer.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: I already knew like that there's no way of sitting down now.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: In fact, I'm gonna.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna step it up a gear and sometimes the best opportunities come when you are ready and that's where you take them, because you're just ready to go, which I was at that point and you mentioned something I've never heard before.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: You said relieved hope, really, yeah, what do you mean?
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: talk to me about that when you think you've reached the end of the road, or like the doors are closed, another one opened.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: So I wasn't expecting it and it just came, got the call to say you, you can play the child.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Actually I ran on the day of the game so I was told I played against them, scored two goals.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Then on the on the morning the week after they had a game against Everton, I was called and said do you fancy playing?
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: Said yeah, so that's how it like happened.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: It wasn't anything of where I had a plan and I knew what was going on.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: It was I was just keeping fit and staying ready and then the opportunities came and I took advantage brilliant.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you were prepared right.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: So you prepared and the opportunity came and you took it and it sounds like you had a stellar, an awesome season in that first year ending in 2019.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: But then, like you say, COVID kicks in.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Covid stopped a lot of things and for you it sounds like it really did halt the progress in terms of that scholarship.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: And so talk to me about what happened there from contracts conversation.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: With COVID here.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: Nobody, nobody initially nobody knew how long this was going to go on for.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: So I remember it was that time where everybody was on strava just running, constantly running to to keep fit, because they thought maybe it's going to blow over after one or two weeks.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: And then your first session back up, football bleep test.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: So everyone like was anticipating that, and and the same for myself.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Then it went on months and months.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Then I said I was only here for two years, I've done one year and I'm halfway through the second year and COVID's happened.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: It's gone on for months, so by the time it's done I've got to move on.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: And there was no exit trials.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: You can't go to other clubs and train, you can't message anybody else.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: So I was a stalemate of what to do, which I had to have some conversations with my family as well to say like what's next?
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Because financially I didn't have any backup as well at the time.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: So I knew if I wasn't able to figure something out, it could lead to a big delay in terms of my future.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you were a year and a half into a scholarship, which is not awesomely paid in itself, but you're living and you're pursuing that dream.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, when it occurred that hold on, there's nowhere else to go, there's no other team to play for what was going through your mind.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: I think I reached.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: I reached a point in life where I was feeling a bit low, but I couldn't complain because it wasn't only me that was in the situation.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: There were people who, let say, are professional and are out of a contract and they can't train either.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: So I knew that there's no point sitting down and crying about it.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: So I took up driving lessons.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: So I used to just go out with my dad, just drive.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: So I put my focus on that same drive I'd usually do in football in terms of training, turn the thoughts and I put it into other things to help me get around this dark time and then what you were driving literally driving round and round.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: You were learning to drive, which is good.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: You're putting that learning focusing to do what.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: How did you figure out what was going to happen and what you were going to do next?
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: so as I was figuring out how to drive and putting energy into elsewhere, I had a conversation with my family, especially my mum, in terms of my future.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: She mentioned a few roles that I could because she was in.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: She just graduated from the university during that time as well.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: So she was like why don't you give like going to university a chance?
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Um, there's a lot of things you could do.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: She mentioned like being a pilot and my face just dropped.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: I was like I don't think I'll be a pilot within two years.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Well, but yeah, she was like.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: She was saying all different type of careers which you can still aim high to be.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: So I enrolled she helped me enroll into mechanical engineering at Sheffield University, which I did one year.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: But I had a vision that mechanical engineering and everything's going digital software in terms of technology.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: I completed that one year and then I changed to software engineering how.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: What was the hardest part for you, from being a full-time footballer to suddenly becoming a student, a mechanical engineering student?
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: It was like it felt like I had imposter syndrome for a bit, because you are always known as an athlete, you're always known as somebody who's going to make it in the footballing world and then, out of nowhere, you have to to learn, pick up a new skill from scratch, where, in football I'd say I was somebody who, like, knew what I was doing.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: It's something I did every day, it was my bed and breakfast.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: But when you transition into something like mechanical engineering where you know absolutely nothing in it, it takes a toll on you.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: You start doubting yourself because you're not going to get everything right straight away.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: You start doubting yourself, you start doubting what you can do.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: But it gave me a reason to say in football, what would I normally do?
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Going through bad form, bad patches?
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: I'd train more.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: I'd stay after sessions, do more, do extras.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: So that's what I started doing in mechanic engineering.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: I'd do my extras there, stay after speaking to the lecturer, use YouTube, google et cetera to figure out things I didn't know.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: And that's how I got through that first year.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: So I was like the skills I've learned from football are universal.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: I can transfer them over here so I don't have to change my identity in terms of who I am as a person.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Although I might be shifting what I do day to day, I still can keep what my identity is as a person, so that's how I got through that patch.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: That is eloquent.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: That's really good you hear that and I have to say kudos, because that type of approach, that type of thinking around your identity and really being able to recognise imposter syndrome, really being able to recognise that you felt out of your depth and then you were able to go back and rest and say I can lean on the skills that made me a footballer, I can lean on those skills to help get me through this.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: And what is it I used to do back then?
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Working hard, focused dedication, like you say you did.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Extras, arrive earlier, stay later, do more.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: That's really mature thinking for someone at that.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: What were you 19, 19, 20 years old?
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I'm curious, then, what helped?
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Or, whilst you're a footballer, or maybe in that transition, did you have help?
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Were you, did you have someone to speak to who was able to help you generate that perspective?
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: normally I never like asking for help because I always feel like I don't want to be a burden.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: I feel like everyone's going through their own situations.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: I think eventually I'll figure it out.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: But I knew if I needed somebody to speak to.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: I know my family's there, I know there's friends and family I can go to seek that.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: But I just took everything all on myself because I knew it's something that I need to go through.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: I need to feel this.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: If I don't feel the weight, then I have no idea what I'm getting into.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: So I like taking the weight and pushing it by myself, and if I need to reach out to somebody I will.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: It's quite funny the fact you're at a degree, you're paying're paying, you're studying, and yet you're still on youtube and other ways to enhance that learning.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: I guess it's just the way we are right, it's just the way things are now.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that shift that I'm interested in, this shift from mechanical and then you can see this sort of future view, this view that says, okay, if everyone moves, mechanical is no longer the only way.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Excuse me, but we move into this digital world and beyond.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: How did you know that?
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: through the research.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: So when I was researching what to do, I noticed software engineering.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: I knew computer science etc.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: But growing up, when I was younger, I was always on computers.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: For example, when there was a few bugs on my, on my dad's laptop, because I'd always be playing games, I'd always be like very curious on the internet, so watching Ronaldinho, jocko Benito skills on the YouTube.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: So I always knew that on a laptop and computer I always had the thing for it.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: So in terms of mechanical, I just knew after the first year of trying it, I just wanted to try it to see if it's for me and I realized it's not something for me.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: So I knew the next world where everything's going digital is tech.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: So I just thought I've got enough skills to progress in mechanical engineering because I did very well in the first year.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: So I started software engineering to move the skills from mechanical over to software to, yeah, be able to give myself an opportunity to be part of the new world.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that's really good, really, again, a boldness to make that leap, to jump out of something that you were uncomfortable with but started to gain a level of familiarity.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: To then jump again and reinvent what you were uncomfortable with but started to gain a level of familiarity, that to then jump again and reinvent what you were doing similar, same identity, same you, but reinvent how you were progressing in your life.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: So when you look back at your, at the degree and the experience you had as a student, how would you describe it?
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: I would describe it as a very transitional time.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: I had to.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: For example, when I first started, especially during the first two years, during the first year of mechanical and the first two years of software engineering, I was still playing football.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: So I was playing at fastly celtic and I was playing at emily.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: I remember we'd have midweek games on a Monday, tuesday on a Monday and a Wednesday, sorry.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: So I'd finish university sometimes at five o'clock or four, three o'clock, but I'd have a game for eight o'clock kick-off, six o'clock meet.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: So I'd be in the lectures not paying attention, just making sure I'm prepped for the game later on.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: I've got my food, I'm drinking, I'm hydrated, I'm minded constantly on what I want to do during that game where the lecturers would pass me by.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: So I had to have a word with myself to say I know you like football so much and I know this is you, but you you will not get through your final year or do well in this course if you're still giving football the amount of like attention you're giving.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: So I had to slowly let go and change exactly who I was and then, which led me to when I secured my internship at Enterprise Mobility.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: That kind of added new skills to myself, because it wasn't about me anymore, it was being a team again.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: For example, I was part of a team in football.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Then I went from studying, being this transitional person to caring about myself, and then now, when you move into the business world, you realise it's not about yourself, it's more about everyone else again, how the business is performing.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: So you had I had to go back to my roots again.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: A football, take all the teamwork, all the aspects of it and put it back into this again.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: That's how, like I know, football is strong to me, because everything I've learned in life has stemmed from the pitch, whether it's individual hard work, whether it's working in a team, whether it's showing up on time, whether it's whatever it is.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: It's been part of my life.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: So that's everything relates back to football.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you've reminded me of some dark times for me at university and then trying to get out to Halifax town evening trainings, evening games.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: I can't even say balance, because it isn't a balance, is it?
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: It's not a balance at all.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: No, it's just fully in the.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: There's only one winner.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: There's only one winner every time.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: That's how it's all balanced.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it, and getting through that it's's really hard, and for you to have to make that decision.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: For me it was easier.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: I ended up moving to France and things just had to even out.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: I was there for work, so, which meant work had to take a bit more precedent than playing football.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: For you, it sounds like it was a conscious decision.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: You're in that same environment.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: It was a conscious decision.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: I'm guessing that you were looking further ahead.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: You were looking beyond playing and starting to think about, as we say we're on here, about second wind.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: You were here looking at actually, what is next for the rest of your life exactly that.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: And when you look at soft engineering, it's some.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: It's if you use the right skills and you plan, it's some.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: It's a very rewarding career.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: So, as well as football is a rewarding career, soft engineering is just as rewarding because it gives you access to starting your own business.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: It gives you access of having just changing the world because everything's technology.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: So you have an aspect, you have a role in society to change the world.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: I knew that I weren't going to waste whatever I've learned during this time.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: I knew it wasn't going to go to waste.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: If anything, it'd be a good leapfrog into a bright future.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: So it was something definitely doing with no regrets.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Which is good.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: So that step away from football, right.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: How was that accepted?
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: How was it delivered to the football team coaches, to family, I slowly just for example, I moved away from university and I just slowly, just for example, I played at this team I won't mention their name and they put me in the 23s and I remember I was, we'd do a match prep and I was performing better than some of the starters that were in the first team of the starters that were in the first team and, for example, I'd get the ball, they'd do it, they'd try to play out from the back doing match prep and I'd take the ball off them.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: I'd put the ball in the back of the net and the gaffer weren't happy, or sometimes he'd, just before I'd score.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: He'd always like stop the game and he'd never put me in into the first team at all.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: And I remember the last game he watched me play.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: I scored a hat-trick, I scored a corner and I scored two brilliant goals, but he never gave me any praise.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: So that kind of took the hunger out of me, because I was like I've come all the way from university, I've left early to be on time to play this game, like I give it all, my all, and then I've come here and I'm performing better than some of your players and I'm not getting the opportunity to play.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: So I was like that's what football is when you get to a certain age it's more, sometimes more, politics than actual games.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: So I thought let me get to a position where in my career that I don't have to depend on people's opinions and people's.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: And so I thought let me just focus on myself and I'll come back to the game once I'm ready and I've sorted out my life.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: So I went to bother anymore what people thought, whether they thought of me as a footballer or as an athlete.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: Bothered anymore what people thought whether they thought of me as a footballer or as an athlete, because I knew if I carry on caring about other people's opinions then I'm not going to excel as far as I could, because football it changes opinions, just like that yeah.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: So tell me, then your decisions focus on uni, ace, that final year, and then you talk now about this internship that you had.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Now actually, yeah, take me down the path.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: When you say internship, what does that?
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: What did that actually mean?
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: during my second year I was given a placement opportunity by the university to find some real work experience.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: So I used this opportunity to, because I knew, because I wasn't, because when I started software engineering I was quite new to it.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: So I knew I need to get some experience before I graduate because I need to know exactly like what I'm getting into.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Enterprise Mobility offered me.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: I did three interviews and they offered me a role for a full year and I took it.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: But I knew I really need this opportunity and I need to leverage this because when I finish uni I don't want to be in a position where I'm job hunting, I'm job searching or I'm starting from square one.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: I want to be able to keep going.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: So I worked very well during my year as an internship.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: I got to the regional finals of the intern of the competition that they hold.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: What does that mean?
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: How do they, how do they measure interns?
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: So there's interns in many departments, in daily rental, in the management, in the tech area, so there's so many core aspects of the business and you are nominated by your line manager and then you go into like an area competition so you have to give like a business improvement idea, any community work you've been doing and also like just how you've conducted yourself during the year.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: So you are ranked on these three things and I won my area competition.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: I was nominated for quite a few elite wins, employee of the Month awards, et cetera.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: I got to the regional finals, which I did very well in, but I didn't get through to the head office finals.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: But the regional finals was a stalemate.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: To say I've done very well, which leads into getting promoted as a management assistant and also being given a campus band manager role, which is where, like at my university, I would be in charge of hiring.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: So anybody who had any questions about internships or was in the same position as me, who maybe was in the sporting world and was trying to find their second wind, or anybody who was looking for business internships or graduate roles, I would be the person they speak to, because I've had that experience during my years in intern and also career transitions as well.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: So that was what came out of that internship that year.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, wonderful, great way to give back as well.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: So that was what came out of that internship not yet.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, wonderful, great way to give back as well.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: So you're, you were, you were developing your skills and you were able then to share that story with others and I think that I mean that's great and it's actually really positive.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: That enterprise encouraged that really early on because it means that you've, like you were saying, you've got individuals at university, perhaps coming through with that sporting background, who can see someone like them, see someone who's been along that similar path, and it just breaks down barriers much sooner and which kind of led me into, let's say, the final year.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: This is a funny story actually.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: So because I wasn't playing much football, I decided for my final year at university I was going to sign up for the men's football team.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: So it was quite a few trials.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: I think there was three trials or so.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: So I've gone to the first trial and they had to take your name down to invite you to the second trial or the third trial.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: I went and trialed which they took my name down.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: But when it came to the second trial, I went called for another trial and it was like the first, like final trial.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: It was like the teams.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: They did another trial which I went called again and that was like the final team.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: I remember going on Instagram and I've seen all the squads listed for each team and I was like what have I?
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: How have I not made this team?
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: But I was that confident in my abilities I said the first training session of the first team I'm going.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: So I've turned up.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: I've turned up to the first session of the first team and I've just run in with the boys and I've just blended in, thinking that nobody would notice because it's the first session, so hopefully nobody knows each other.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: And then we've come back and we're in a circle and Agatha stood right across me and he looked at me.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: He's new, straight away.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: He's new, straight away.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: I wasn't supposed to be there.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: So he said he's called straight away.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: He's new, straight away.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: I wasn't supposed to be there, so he said he's called me out in front of everybody.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: He's called me out.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: He's gone and said who are you son?
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: I said I'm Sandy and he goes are you in this team?
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: I said something along the lines of I should be.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Or yeah, I was told to come down and he was waiting on two players that were late.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: So he goes are you any good?
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: And I said that's for you to judge.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: And he goes to the boys.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Does anyone here know him?
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: All the boys have looked at me.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: And then he goes it's your lucky day.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Two lads haven't turned up yet so you can take their place until they get back.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: So first session he goes, I'll have a look at you.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: If you're any good, we'll see.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: First drill the boys are going to wrap the ball into me straight away.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Touch was okay and they did very well and from that day on I was told I'd be part of the first team, but it was like I was confident in my abilities, like I knew exactly what I could do and I went taking no for an answer, which led me to mix my role as a campus bar manager at Enterprise.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: We've been in a football team so, like the boys, if they were in the same situation as where they used to play professionally, et cetera, like some lads got released from Chesterfield, like literally just been released, everyone was in different positions in life.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: I was there to talk to.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: That's good.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: You took that role as well.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: I love the confidence that confidence on field is something else.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Right, you didn't lose that.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll never forget that moment, honestly.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good story.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: It's definitely one to remember because it tells a lot about you as an individual, but not only that, that.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: So you have the, the guts to rock up, the courage to say to be there, and then the humility perhaps to then are you any good?
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: That's for you to find out when, simply by listening out you're playing cv, you would have gone.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I don't know where, why I've missed you.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Now that's good.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess demonstrating your excellence or one's excellence, now that's good.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess demonstrating your excellence or one's excellence is that's pretty cool.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: The internship, so enterprise mobility just tell me a little bit.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: What is enterprise?
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: I know enterprise rent a car, I'm cool.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: What is enterprise mobility?
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: So enterprise?
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: mobility is the biggest transportation company in the world.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: They are branching out into many different avenues, such as, for example, in America.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: They're based in America, they're America's seventh largest private company, so they are branching out into different things such as car sales and stuff.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: So over in the UK it's going to take some time to integrate.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: Enterprise Mobility is just like a company that kind of supports communities, supports communities by mainly travel transportation, such as the rent a car, such as flexi rent, for example.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: There's a few like ambulances and all sorts which are owned by enterprise, but they're just leased to different countries.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: So, like whatever the needs of the public are in terms of transportation, enterprise mobility is a forefront in terms of that and so, when you think about what you've learned by doing the internship and continuing on as you are now, what would you say some of the key things you've learned from your time there?
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: I think service is the number one thing I've learned from my internship at Enterprise, because without the community and having that good customer service, you can't excel in anything you do.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: You've got to be able to greet people, be warm to people, do just go the extra mile for people, because what tends to happen is people will do the same to you or they'll always come to you.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: So it doesn't matter what you do.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: If you're always nice to people and you treat people with respect and you're always open to people, you'll always do no matter what.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: That's the number one thing I've taken from this company okay now, when you think, last couple of questions.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Really, first one is and you've probably had a lot of practice saying this, but when you think about athletes, be it professional footballers or professional sport, any full-time sport where they start to see, I guess from a career perspective, their athletic career, perhaps it's going to stop or they're not sure what's going to be next.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: When you think about the journey you've had, what advice would you give to athletes contemplating what they should do in their life outside of sport?
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: I would say stick to your roots.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: It's something that makes you unique or what makes you.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: Because what you find is that skill, what makes yourself unique, can be transferable into any aspect in life or any avenue.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: So I would sit down with yourself and just write down or look over if you've got a phone, some memories, just look over a few things that have made yourself.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Are you funny, are you warm, are you somebody who likes to work long hours?
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: Just, no matter what it is that makes you, you can transfer that skill into something else.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: So I would always say that, yeah, just go back to your roots, and because everybody's different, so there's always a role out there for whatever you are good at.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: So what you're really saying.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: If I had to, that is a little bit trying to figure out who you are.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: But look back, you know, like the way you described.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: Look at your phone, maybe.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Look at the photographs, the memories that might pop up and be able to see are there any clues from there that them and that can help you understand?
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: Oh, I was good at that, I enjoyed that.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: This is why I excelled at and then write them down, perhaps journal, and start to see if those things start to show up as you look forward and move forward as well exactly that.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: And also, if you're unsure, speak to the people who know you the best.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: Just ask them what is something that makes me the person you like to speak to every day.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: Then through that you get little signs because in in life, every after every relationship, people have like different thoughts of you some the same but some different.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: So you, if you don't ask you what you won't know and build that full out picture of yourself.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I would say, ask questions about yourself, don't be afraid to speak to the person that you love the most and just just find out more about yourself nicely said.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Nicely said, yeah.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Now, when you think, then about where you're going next, you opened up talking a bit about the business, agriculture, something that you're exploring on the side of what sounds like an awesome opportunity at enterprise as well, but is down that agriculture blockchain.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: So, looking at technology, what's next for you?
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: What?
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: What's the next big dream?
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: my next big dream is I want to be back on the pitch.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: That's number one for me, because I did promise myself to take three, four years out to get the degree.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: I've got the degree.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: So I need to get back on the pitch because I feel like I'd be doing myself an injustice.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: But in terms of in terms of the startup, it's definitely travel, because I want to be able to speak to a variety of different people, look at different areas, see what the market is in different situations and how people are feeling, to get an overall aspect, because I don't think I can I'll be able to progress without taking into account how people feel about the current market, the current trading and stuff.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: So it's just interviewing a lot of people first before making decisions and find out if I can problem solve, find out what people, what barriers people are facing and see if there's anything I can do to close the gap on that.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: And in terms of my career, I definitely want to progress at enterprise mobility more, more into the product ownership role, because it's what product ownership is mixing tech and business.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: So using my skills that I've learned at university during software engineering and also my networking profession and speaking to people and interviewing and all sorts I think I can mix that into business as well.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: And interviewing and all sorts I think I can.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: I can mix that into business as well.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: So that's why I would want to go into product ownership and hopefully stay at enterprisement mobility long term in that aspect as well.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Those are the kind of the three goals for me at the minute.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: So yes, those are three big goals, but I'm excited by those.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: I think all three of them.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: I look forward to watching.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: I look forward to keeping in touch and sharing those, that journey with you.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: I want to see where football can take you, getting back on the field, understanding where, from a corporate perspective, sounds like you've got a lot to keep learning at enterprise and it's an organization that wants to keep giving.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: And I got yeah, go on, sorry speaking on enterprise mobility, we've recently just announced a partnership with the football national league.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: We also sponsor the europa league, so it's a company that's like deep into the football world currently at the minute, so it just feels like the right place to be for myself at the minute well, that's great.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: That's probably another avenue to try and work your way in, and more awards there they're going to need I think people have football backgrounds, surely to get involved and get to more games.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it would make sense we're going to start the campaign right here.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: So that's it.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: We'll use that and I was just going to say just adding on and continuing to explore technology and especially see how that can help your parents and their farm.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: I think the bit that I'm going to be interested and we're going to have to get you back on in years to come is we spoke about our experience of trying to be a semi-professional footballer whilst going through university and it wasn't.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: It was hard to get any sort of balance and be able to figure out where your mind and body needed to be to get them in the same place.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: So as you progress, I'll be interested to see how you manage to find some sort of balance, some sort of equilibrium across those three things as you start to move forward that's a very interesting.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm waiting to see as well myself, and I want to see that.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: I'm excited to see the challenge being able to play and still chase.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: But I think the main aspect for me was financially.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: I wasn't able to support myself financially, play and learn, but now it's more of.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: I'm stable financially now so I can afford to travel to games.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: I don't have to rely on football as a source of income, so it's something that I want.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: I'm in the driver's seat now, so that's the main box ticked off that I can decide if I want to do this or not relying on source of income.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, interesting.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: You set yourself up so you can have a bit more control of your destiny.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Control the controllables, as we're on field and that's it.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: Listen, sandy, I've got to say massive thanks for joining me, for sharing your journey and sharing where you're heading next.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: it's been absolutely brilliant to get a bit of your perspective thank you for the opportunity, and I've always been a fan of yourself.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: Thank you, and I look forward to listening to more interviews and podcasts of people chasing their second wind as well.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: So thank you again.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: You have a good day.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Thanks, andy thank you for listening to the second win podcast.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out secondwinio for more information or to book a consultation with me.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: I'd like to thank claire from betty book design, nancy from savvy podcast solutions and cerise from copying content by lola for their.
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Brook.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: Design, nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: That's all from me.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: Take it easy Until next time.