Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / What are the Cardinals early plans for the offseason?

Transcript

What are the Cardinals early plans for the offseason? · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: Reunited at last, Katie wu Bernie Nicholas in the house.
0:09
Speaker 1: It's only been what it feels like a thousand years. Bernie,
0:12
Speaker 1: how are you welcome back to the show.
0:14
Speaker 2: Well, it's great to be back with you. Missed working
0:17
Speaker 2: with you, and there's been so much going on with
0:20
Speaker 2: the Cardinals, and I know you've been helping out the
0:23
Speaker 2: athletic on you know, a lot of postseason stuff. So yeah,
0:26
Speaker 2: I'm glad you had the time to do this because
0:30
Speaker 2: I always look forward to it.
0:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, me too. And I know we've told our readers
0:34
Speaker 1: are not our readers, our viewers before that this is
0:37
Speaker 1: going to be a once a week podcast through October.
0:39
Speaker 1: That's going to continue. The World Series starts Friday, so
0:43
Speaker 1: I will be there and then we'll have more clarity
0:47
Speaker 1: again about the future of the podcast within the next
0:49
Speaker 1: week or two. But for right now, let's just go
0:52
Speaker 1: back to old time's sake. Bernie's so much to talk about,
0:54
Speaker 1: even though like literally nothing's happened since Heim Bloom's press conference,
0:59
Speaker 1: but we'll break it down anyway. Welcome back again to
1:01
Speaker 1: Cardinal Territory presented by Fox One. Quiet at first, Bernie,
1:07
Speaker 1: what as we start to look we know, the off
1:10
Speaker 1: season is not going to pick up until after the
1:12
Speaker 1: World Series, and we'll get to all of our World
1:14
Speaker 1: Series predictions and all that stuff later. When you are
1:17
Speaker 1: thinking about what the Cardinals need to do to start
1:20
Speaker 1: their off season off on the right foot, what comes to.
1:23
Speaker 2: Mind, Well, I think for Hin Bloom to maybe reach
1:28
Speaker 2: an understanding with the players we've talked about so much,
1:32
Speaker 2: Nolan Aronado and Sonny Gray and Wilson Contreras in terms
1:37
Speaker 2: of their willingness to move on, and that seems like,
1:40
Speaker 2: you know, there's a much better chance of them saying sure,
1:44
Speaker 2: you know, if it's the right thing. So I think
1:47
Speaker 2: that he, you know, he needs whatever flexibility he can
1:50
Speaker 2: get before he starts remixing this roster. And I think
1:56
Speaker 2: that that's really really important. And I think his communication
1:59
Speaker 2: skills with those veteran and players and you know this
2:01
Speaker 2: much better than I do, really meant a lot to them,
2:05
Speaker 2: and they understand and they appreciate the fact that he
2:08
Speaker 2: wanted to sit down and you know, discuss it with him.
2:10
Speaker 2: So I think he's off off to a good start
2:13
Speaker 2: that way. I think he's identified kind of what he
2:18
Speaker 2: has to do. Like we don't know everything he wants
2:21
Speaker 2: to do. But you did some really good reporting on
2:23
Speaker 2: that from the athlet for the Athletic that you know
2:27
Speaker 2: they clearly have to offload a couple of left handed hitters.
2:32
Speaker 2: The Cardinals this past season ranked either either fourth from
2:38
Speaker 2: the bottom or fifth from the bottom in terms of
2:40
Speaker 2: platoons split advantage because they have too many left handed
2:42
Speaker 2: hitters and it's killing their out their outfield offensively. So
2:46
Speaker 2: I think he has framed what they need to do,
2:48
Speaker 2: and I think that's the most important thing. He's not
2:50
Speaker 2: going to share everything, but he has framed the outline
2:53
Speaker 2: of what he wants to pursue, and you can't pursue
2:57
Speaker 2: it until you know it's go time. The other the
3:00
Speaker 2: other thing, and I mean take up too much of
3:02
Speaker 2: this time in the first question, But I will say this,
3:06
Speaker 2: the surgeries to Lars Nutbar and Brennan Dona of especially
3:09
Speaker 2: Nutbar with the heels right, that's going to complicate things.
3:15
Speaker 2: So I don't know that Nutbar will have much trade
3:18
Speaker 2: value if there's a feeling that he may not be
3:20
Speaker 2: ready to go. Plus he's got his injury history, so
3:23
Speaker 2: I think that's a blow potentially. And even Brennan Donovan,
3:27
Speaker 2: even though sports hernia surgery is not a major deal.
3:31
Speaker 2: It does fit a pattern of this is a guy
3:33
Speaker 2: who plays really really hard and throws his body around
3:37
Speaker 2: and he's been getting banged up, and it's like, hey,
3:40
Speaker 2: we want him, but what's his shelf life? Is he
3:43
Speaker 2: going to be one of these guys that hits the
3:46
Speaker 2: age related decline early. I don't know that this was
3:50
Speaker 2: I don't think this was a good development in terms
3:52
Speaker 2: of what it means for their trade value. But I
3:55
Speaker 2: could be wrong, Maybe I'm making maybe I'm worrying for
3:59
Speaker 2: no reason. But I do think that that was a
4:01
Speaker 2: tough That was a tough bit of news to handle,
4:04
Speaker 2: because it's really really important that whoever he's trying to
4:08
Speaker 2: trade has got really good value rather than diminishing value.
4:13
Speaker 1: I think you're spot on here, And you know, I've
4:15
Speaker 1: been admittedly not as plugged in with the team right now,
4:17
Speaker 1: trying to survive in the playoffs mode, which is a
4:20
Speaker 1: brand new environment. Generally get to experience when here of
4:22
Speaker 1: those games in the five years here in Saint Louis.
4:24
Speaker 1: So when I get the Cardinals medical report, like we
4:26
Speaker 1: all knew Mason win surgery in the timetable, I actually
4:28
Speaker 1: believe there will be you know, no hiccups there. We
4:30
Speaker 1: knew about von Herrera and that plan. Those two seem
4:33
Speaker 1: fine to me. Those were not the two that the
4:35
Speaker 1: Cardinals were looking in terms of like potentially trading. We
4:38
Speaker 1: know aboute Victor Scott out of this because he doesn't
4:40
Speaker 1: really apply here is but the four lefties in Burlison,
4:43
Speaker 1: New Bar Gorman, Bros Newbar Gorman, I'm missing one done. Yeah,
4:49
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about not as plugged in. I'll be
4:51
Speaker 1: better as the show goes on the to offload two
4:57
Speaker 1: just to maybe decrease the roster with dun and See
5:00
Speaker 1: and have more of a platoon advantage. Well, if two
5:03
Speaker 1: of those guys in Donovan and new Bar have surgeries
5:06
Speaker 1: and I think it's notable that the Cardinals did not
5:09
Speaker 1: release a expected timetable of recovery, I will get on
5:12
Speaker 1: that though, my faithful Cardinal Territory viewers. I will do
5:15
Speaker 1: my job and get on that. That to me is
5:19
Speaker 1: I don't want to say a red flag, because that's dramatic,
5:21
Speaker 1: but it is like an orange flag, a yellow flag
5:23
Speaker 1: very similar to the types of men that I date,
5:25
Speaker 1: just not totally yellow orange, just kind of right up
5:28
Speaker 1: there maybe not, And I wonder, because I think you're
5:32
Speaker 1: spot on as Hein Bloom looks to what I think
5:35
Speaker 1: like significantly change the roster. I've firmly expected Brendan Donovan
5:39
Speaker 1: and Lars Newbar to be up there in trade conversations
5:42
Speaker 1: because you're going to have to trade two of those
5:45
Speaker 1: four that we just talked about. New Bar's injury like
5:49
Speaker 1: specifically concerns me because of the projected timetable. Now I'm
5:53
Speaker 1: no doctor, of course, the Cardinals have not released their
5:55
Speaker 1: own timetable, so we can take a step back there.
5:57
Speaker 1: But this surgery for both of them, especially Newbar, hurts
6:01
Speaker 1: their immediate trade value, and I wonder if they have
6:04
Speaker 1: to pivot and trade other guys that maybe they weren't
6:06
Speaker 1: wanting to. Does this make Burlison more available? Does this
6:10
Speaker 1: make Gorman more available than the other two. I'm not sure,
6:13
Speaker 1: but it definitely will impact in some way how Heim
6:17
Speaker 1: Bloom can d clog their left handed hitters because he
6:22
Speaker 1: cannot roll out with the same roster as next season.
6:24
Speaker 1: That just simply can't happen.
6:26
Speaker 2: Let me throw one one note of encouragement in there
6:29
Speaker 2: about Nubar because the original reaction and I appreciate the
6:33
Speaker 2: fact that some reporters looked at how this particular malady
6:37
Speaker 2: affected other athletes, and with all due respect, the surgical
6:42
Speaker 2: procedures and the way these injuries are handled now is
6:47
Speaker 2: a lot better than it used to be. It's much
6:49
Speaker 2: more advanced than it used to be. So I don't
6:52
Speaker 2: know that if we talk about you know, John wall
6:55
Speaker 2: and you know cesspid Is and a couple other people
6:59
Speaker 2: that had this injury, where if there's like a protracted rehabilitation,
7:03
Speaker 2: but there were some new injuries in there too, I
7:05
Speaker 2: don't know that that really applies. I spoke to two
7:08
Speaker 2: different sports orthopedic surgeons that I know today and they said, no, no, no, no,
7:15
Speaker 2: it's really changed. It's really changed over the last seven
7:20
Speaker 2: or eight years. Where these surgeries now and by the
7:23
Speaker 2: way runners, competitive runners, ardent runners, they they get this
7:30
Speaker 2: condition a lot. I mean, this is very common among runners,
7:34
Speaker 2: serious runners, and it used to be it would set
7:38
Speaker 2: them to the side for a long time and then
7:40
Speaker 2: when they did their rehab it was very painful. Now
7:43
Speaker 2: it's the surgery, the surgical techniques are advanced, the recovery
7:48
Speaker 2: time has been reduced dramatically, and the runners have said like, gosh,
7:54
Speaker 2: I don't have to wear a boot for six weeks
7:57
Speaker 2: two months. I can get up and start doing things
8:00
Speaker 2: pretty early into the rehab and I feel really good.
8:05
Speaker 2: It takes a while to feel normal, But my point
8:08
Speaker 2: is just to offer maybe the recovery time for Newtbar
8:13
Speaker 2: won't be as bad as fear. And I'm not saying
8:16
Speaker 2: that as a Pollyanna. I'm saying that because I talk
8:19
Speaker 2: to people who are familiar with the injury, because they
8:22
Speaker 2: prefer surgeries on that particular injury. So we'll see, we'll see.
8:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's just I think it's the nature of this
8:29
Speaker 1: early in the off season, which is crazy because again,
8:32
Speaker 1: the postseason is still going on, and it feels like
8:34
Speaker 1: months since the Cardinals have last played a game. I
8:37
Speaker 1: think it's normal to like not really have a ton
8:39
Speaker 1: of news right now, and we're all a little stir
8:41
Speaker 1: crazy because this will be a much different off season
8:44
Speaker 1: and anytime you get kind of a surprise injury. I
8:47
Speaker 1: don't really think that Donovan's injury was or surgery was
8:50
Speaker 1: necessarily a surprise. It kind of is like you would
8:53
Speaker 1: assume that was happening based on how he'd end the season.
8:55
Speaker 1: The new Bar one admittedly did cast me off guards.
8:58
Speaker 2: So yeah, and I in fact, I'm saying real quick, listen,
9:02
Speaker 2: I've defended Oli, Marmel and a lot of things, and
9:04
Speaker 2: I think he's the subject of some really gratuitous criticism
9:07
Speaker 2: and it bothers me. But I'm not just saying this now.
9:12
Speaker 2: I mean I said it during the season. I talked
9:14
Speaker 2: to Ali about it and he and you know, I thought,
9:17
Speaker 2: I don't think he handled the Donovan situation very well.
9:20
Speaker 2: And I got to be honest and just say that
9:21
Speaker 2: because Donovan himself said the toe injury, which they didn't
9:25
Speaker 2: take care of, where they could have shut him down,
9:28
Speaker 2: put it behind him. He wanted to keep playing on it.
9:31
Speaker 2: He wanted to keep playing on Oli kept writing him in.
9:34
Speaker 2: That led to another injury because he was compensating for
9:37
Speaker 2: the toe that created the groin problem. The groin problem
9:39
Speaker 2: created the hernia. I mean, if they had just taken
9:42
Speaker 2: care of that thing earlier, I don't think it. I
9:46
Speaker 2: don't think his season would have been as torn up.
9:48
Speaker 2: And the thing is, what did they gain by playing him?
9:51
Speaker 2: They really nothing. His numbers collapsed, he wasn't moving well,
9:58
Speaker 2: the team wasn't doing well. There was nothing to be
10:01
Speaker 2: gained by kind of forcing that issue, when just shutting
10:06
Speaker 2: him down for a short amount of time would have
10:10
Speaker 2: I think the really good chance it would have made
10:12
Speaker 2: a huge difference and these subsequent injuries would not have developed.
10:16
Speaker 2: So I just have to say that because I said
10:20
Speaker 2: it at the time, and you know, one thing leads
10:23
Speaker 2: to another. Now all of a sudden, it's surgery, you know,
10:25
Speaker 2: So it just seemed like this could have been avoided.
10:29
Speaker 2: That's just my opinion.
10:30
Speaker 1: I think that's a fair point. And well I'll throw
10:33
Speaker 1: out here, like Donovan advocated to be in the lineup
10:36
Speaker 1: every single day, much like Mason Win. The difference between
10:39
Speaker 1: Donovan and Mason Win is that Mason couldn't make his
10:42
Speaker 1: injury all that worse, whereas playing Donovan made that injury worse.
10:46
Speaker 1: And I applaud Ali being a player's manager and listening
10:49
Speaker 1: to his guy. I know there was a big push
10:51
Speaker 1: to get Donovan into the All Star Game at that time,
10:53
Speaker 1: and he deserved it by far, but it did have
10:56
Speaker 1: a trickle down effect of the second half where Donovan
10:58
Speaker 1: was virtually a non factor for this team, and you
11:00
Speaker 1: think about how that second half went down. Honestly, the
11:04
Speaker 1: three weeks leading into the trade deadline, and then the
11:06
Speaker 1: second half it decided their season. And I personally don't
11:09
Speaker 1: think the Cardinals are that much of a worse team
11:11
Speaker 1: than the Cincinnati Reds. We can have a different conversation
11:14
Speaker 1: on how the NL Central had three playoff teams this year,
11:17
Speaker 1: but that's neither here nor there. I do think that
11:20
Speaker 1: in hindsight, it might have been better to just rest
11:24
Speaker 1: Donovan at the time. He's not a guy that's going
11:26
Speaker 1: to take himself out of the lineup. He's super gritty,
11:28
Speaker 1: he wants to play every day. You respect that out
11:30
Speaker 1: of a ballplayer. But for him to go out and
11:32
Speaker 1: say I think there was a trickle down effect from
11:34
Speaker 1: the toe leading to the groin now to surgery, it's
11:37
Speaker 1: a fair criticism to make, especially when the numbers in
11:39
Speaker 1: the second half kind of back up that lack of production.
11:41
Speaker 2: So right, And I do understand, first of all, I
11:44
Speaker 2: respect any player that wants to play and compete, and
11:47
Speaker 2: Brendan Oudaman is a team guy. He wants he's he's relentless.
11:51
Speaker 2: But it's like the old saying, you know, playing hurts
11:53
Speaker 2: a lot different than playing injured, you know, and playing
11:56
Speaker 2: injured can lead to some other some other bad things, complications,
12:01
Speaker 2: another injury, whatever, So it's in the past. I just
12:05
Speaker 2: wanted to note that I think Ali did a hell
12:08
Speaker 2: of a job with this team this past season. But
12:12
Speaker 2: for me to maintain some credibility or my credibility, I
12:16
Speaker 2: also have to point out things that I disagreed with
12:19
Speaker 2: and I think and things that just didn't work and
12:22
Speaker 2: maybe maybe should have been avoided.
12:25
Speaker 1: Well, we will monitor Brendan Donovan and Lar's new bar
12:28
Speaker 1: statuses over the course of the early off season. But
12:30
Speaker 1: let's hop into more off season Prospecsion on behalf of
12:33
Speaker 1: our sponsors at DraftKings. Okay, once again, because we are
12:41
Speaker 1: in the middle of the off season, it will not
12:42
Speaker 1: be the Draft Kings Player spotlight, will be the DraftKings
12:45
Speaker 1: Person Spotlight, presented by Draft Kings Pick six. We're gonna highlight,
12:49
Speaker 1: high and bloom here because that's what happens when you're
12:51
Speaker 1: the president of Baseball Operations. The newly minted President Baseball Operations,
12:55
Speaker 1: I should say, facing your first big off season and
12:58
Speaker 1: arguably the most narrative offseason for the Cardinals in the
13:02
Speaker 1: last five years. My expectation for when hein bloom like
13:06
Speaker 1: we really get to see what this front office looks like.
13:08
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about the coaching staff finalizing, the major
13:11
Speaker 1: league coaching staff finalizing, the pro scouting director hire, and
13:14
Speaker 1: the support staff that will likely follow like those are
13:17
Speaker 1: all important, but fans care about which players are going
13:21
Speaker 1: to be on their favorite baseball team next year. And
13:23
Speaker 1: when you look at the Cardinals forty man, which has
13:26
Speaker 1: been a talking point for us often, Bernie over the
13:28
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five season, there is a lot of work
13:31
Speaker 1: to be done there. There are two dates if I'm
13:33
Speaker 1: a Cardinals fan that I'm looking for come November. The
13:36
Speaker 1: first is the GM Meetings. Let me pull that up
13:38
Speaker 1: my calendar right now, because I don't even know what
13:40
Speaker 1: data is today. The GM meetings start November ninth, unofficially
13:45
Speaker 1: officially November tenth. They are Major League Baseball's like kickoff
13:49
Speaker 1: to the off season. The GM Meetings, for those who unfamiliar,
13:52
Speaker 1: is exactly what it sounds like. All of the GM's
13:55
Speaker 1: most prominent agents and some reporters will all meet for
13:58
Speaker 1: three or four days and it's just a here's what
14:01
Speaker 1: we're looking to do for our organization. Are you open
14:03
Speaker 1: to these kinds of players? It's the first time that
14:05
Speaker 1: free agents are really able to go out and explore
14:08
Speaker 1: their own markets. It is essentially a preview to the
14:11
Speaker 1: Winner Meetings. I find it much more easier to work
14:13
Speaker 1: the GM meetings though, so the GM meetings is what
14:16
Speaker 1: I expect will have a better idea of what kind
14:19
Speaker 1: of players the Cardinals are looking to move. The second
14:22
Speaker 1: deadline I don't have the actual day yet. I don't
14:24
Speaker 1: believe it's been public at least to the media, is
14:27
Speaker 1: the non tender deadline that usually happens towards the right
14:30
Speaker 1: before Thanksgiving. The non tender deadline is a great way
14:33
Speaker 1: to clear out your forty man roster, and the cardinals
14:37
Speaker 1: forty man roster is a certified problem because it's a
14:40
Speaker 1: redundant and being not very good. So I would expect
14:43
Speaker 1: many of these players to get non tendered. What does
14:46
Speaker 1: that mean for those to be unfamiliar, it means the
14:48
Speaker 1: Cardinals will essentially not tender them a contract. This all,
14:52
Speaker 1: you don't have to finalize contracts until the arbitration deadline
14:55
Speaker 1: in January, but if you are non tendered by a team,
14:57
Speaker 1: you essentially are cut off their roster and you are
15:00
Speaker 1: a free agent. And I would expect the Cardinals to
15:04
Speaker 1: be very active at the non tender deadline. Bertie, as
15:06
Speaker 1: you're evaluating this front office when this offseason officially kicks off,
15:11
Speaker 1: what is one thing that you're looking for from a
15:12
Speaker 1: roster perspective that you'd like to see?
15:16
Speaker 2: I would. I don't know if this answers your question exactly,
15:20
Speaker 2: and I apologize if it doesn't. I'm not trying to
15:23
Speaker 2: change the subject. I promise we know this the I
15:30
Speaker 2: want heinm Bloom to. They've gotten off to a really
15:34
Speaker 2: good start. You know, some of the stuff for Randy
15:37
Speaker 2: Floris did and really, let's face it, Mo, it isn't
15:41
Speaker 2: like when Hein Bloom was hired and brought in Sir
15:44
Speaker 2: Folio and Matt Pierpont and the Larry Day and those
15:47
Speaker 2: guys that that's when the Cardinals farm system just started
15:49
Speaker 2: to like take off. There were some real progress being made.
15:53
Speaker 2: And listen, I know that Moe was the one that
15:55
Speaker 2: let it fall apart. I know that, but the Cardinals
16:00
Speaker 2: farm system, especially in terms of pitching starting pitching, is
16:04
Speaker 2: really starting to take shape. You know, I think I
16:07
Speaker 2: hope you saw this. If you didn't, it's okay, you know,
16:10
Speaker 2: Fangrafts recently bumped the Cardinals up to the number one
16:13
Speaker 2: farm system ranking in Major League Baseball, and they are
16:16
Speaker 2: just loaded with pitching. Now, I'm not saying all that
16:19
Speaker 2: the pitching is going to be fantastic. No one's saying, well,
16:22
Speaker 2: they're all going to be all stars. No, that doesn't
16:24
Speaker 2: work that way. But they have so many pitchers that
16:27
Speaker 2: Fangraphs and Baseball American and MLB Pipeline like. The way
16:32
Speaker 2: this works is the more of those guys you have,
16:35
Speaker 2: the better your percentage that some will come through because
16:39
Speaker 2: you have a big supply. And I feel better about
16:42
Speaker 2: the Cardinals young starting pitching than I have in a
16:44
Speaker 2: long time. So how does this fit into your question?
16:47
Speaker 2: They have got pitching on the way and I think
16:49
Speaker 2: that that's pretty exciting. But whatever he's going to do
16:54
Speaker 2: this year this winter about about moving people, trading sense.
17:01
Speaker 2: My hope is that somehow out of that they'll he
17:04
Speaker 2: will come up with a couple of more pitchers, starting
17:07
Speaker 2: pitchers that want Maybe one of them is ready to
17:10
Speaker 2: plug into the major league rotation. Maybe one of them
17:12
Speaker 2: it'd be like double A but a legit guy. I
17:18
Speaker 2: love the momentum of where where their their attempt to
17:21
Speaker 2: revive their their homegrown starting pitching is starting to take shape.
17:25
Speaker 2: I love it and I want more of it because
17:28
Speaker 2: what's the old saying, You never can have enough of
17:31
Speaker 2: those guys, right, So that that's what I'm hoping for,
17:35
Speaker 2: That's what I'm looking for. And of course, Katie, we
17:39
Speaker 2: all know he's got some major decisions to make about
17:42
Speaker 2: will he stay or will he go? You know, will
17:45
Speaker 2: some players stay or go? Will he try to move
17:48
Speaker 2: some people along? What do you? What do you what's
17:49
Speaker 2: your gut feeling on, because I know you've written about it.
17:52
Speaker 2: What's your gut feeling about Jordan Walker, Nolan Gormant this day?
17:57
Speaker 1: I think they day. I I think if they have
18:02
Speaker 1: an offer that they simply cannot refuse for Nolan Gorman,
18:05
Speaker 1: whether that's one like a straight off, one off deal
18:08
Speaker 1: or a package deal, they would entertain it, and they
18:11
Speaker 1: might even be inclined to do so again to reference
18:13
Speaker 1: breaking up all of those lefty bats. Jordan Walker, though,
18:16
Speaker 1: I think he's here to stay for one more season
18:18
Speaker 1: at least, and I know that he's been a hot topic,
18:21
Speaker 1: and I know this has been a pro Jordan Walker
18:23
Speaker 1: podcast all year long. I am if anything consistent. He
18:26
Speaker 1: is twenty three years old, his ceiling is still so high.
18:30
Speaker 1: He's a five tool player. And I thought one thing
18:33
Speaker 1: that I thought was really interesting that happened earlier in
18:35
Speaker 1: the month was hein Bloom taking all the Beat writers
18:37
Speaker 1: and sending us down for a one hour on the
18:40
Speaker 1: record session, just him, myself, the Post Dispatch, MLB dot Com,
18:44
Speaker 1: and the Belving News democrats. So there were maybe six
18:47
Speaker 1: seven writers total in that session, and he outlined every
18:50
Speaker 1: single question that we had, and there were plenty about
18:54
Speaker 1: Jordan Walker, as I'm sure you can imagine, and he
18:57
Speaker 1: made up a point that I thought was super interesting
18:59
Speaker 1: that I hadn't thought of before. Jordan Walker has been
19:02
Speaker 1: asked to change his swing, or change his approach, or
19:05
Speaker 1: change the level he's playing at every single season since
19:07
Speaker 1: being called up in twenty twenty three. What Jordan Walker
19:11
Speaker 1: needs is to go into an off season with a
19:13
Speaker 1: defined approach, a set whatever routine, a set rule of
19:18
Speaker 1: guidelines for him to follow all off season long, and
19:21
Speaker 1: then have a full season to do it without. You know,
19:24
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying those changes weren't moranted. Were there
19:27
Speaker 1: are things Jordan Walker needs to change for him to
19:29
Speaker 1: reach a ceiling and for him to be a productive
19:31
Speaker 1: major league caliber hitter, asking a player to do that
19:35
Speaker 1: consistently throughout the middle of the season and then having
19:38
Speaker 1: you know, each year they asked Jordan Walker to do
19:41
Speaker 1: something that has not been conducive to his overall success.
19:44
Speaker 1: It was in twenty twenty three, go play the outfield
19:46
Speaker 1: even though you played it six weeks for your entire career,
19:48
Speaker 1: and go to it at the major league level. In
19:50
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, was hit enough to supply for the
19:52
Speaker 1: right handed offense that we don't have. And if you
19:54
Speaker 1: don't do what we're sending you back down and they
19:56
Speaker 1: did this year, you're the face of our transition season.
19:59
Speaker 2: Figure it out.
20:00
Speaker 1: So I'm not saying that Jordan Walker is completely innocent
20:03
Speaker 1: in this ordeal. At the end of the day, the
20:04
Speaker 1: player needs to make the results the player needs to produce.
20:07
Speaker 1: But as him said, him having an entire off season
20:10
Speaker 1: to work on what they've identified him and his weaknesses
20:13
Speaker 1: and the changes he needs to make, and then going
20:15
Speaker 1: into twenty twenty six and having a season where he
20:18
Speaker 1: can do that and stick to the approach, we'll have
20:20
Speaker 1: a much better evaluation of Jordan Walker as a player.
20:22
Speaker 1: So that's my long winded explanation of saying I don't
20:25
Speaker 1: really think either of them will go, But I definitely
20:28
Speaker 1: don't think Jordan Walker will maybe Nolan Gorman. It just
20:31
Speaker 1: depends on what the offers are for all four of
20:34
Speaker 1: those lefties and how they can maximize their return. I
20:37
Speaker 1: feel very confident in saying Nolan Arnado out of here,
20:40
Speaker 1: Sonny Gray out of here. Well, not as confident, but
20:42
Speaker 1: I still feel confident about that. And then I feel
20:45
Speaker 1: confident that at least one, if not two of those
20:48
Speaker 1: lefties will also be traded. So this is what I
20:51
Speaker 1: mean when I say it's going to be a different
20:52
Speaker 1: off season. There is going to be action. We sure
20:55
Speaker 1: as heck won't have the off season last year in
20:57
Speaker 1: which they signed film Aton in spring trading and called
21:00
Speaker 1: it a deal. It just won't be necessarily like fun trades.
21:04
Speaker 1: If you're a fan of the team, because chances are
21:06
Speaker 1: maybe one of your paper players is going to be
21:08
Speaker 1: moved to another organization. It will be busy, just not
21:11
Speaker 1: with moves that will necessarily make this team super competitive.
21:14
Speaker 2: And your feeling or your information at this point, because
21:18
Speaker 2: it can always change, can always Contrara Stace, Yes, more
21:24
Speaker 2: likely than I hope. Yeah, I hope. So I think
21:26
Speaker 2: I think he's kind of an underappreciated asset, and he
21:28
Speaker 2: plays first base very well, and with the newt bar
21:32
Speaker 2: uncertain like, you know, will he even be able to
21:35
Speaker 2: play for the Cardinals in twenty twenty six or how
21:38
Speaker 2: much you know that that puts Burley out in left
21:41
Speaker 2: field again? Or you know, and.
21:43
Speaker 1: Rosen did some exceptional work to be Regalian.
21:46
Speaker 2: He really did, he did. So I find them to
21:49
Speaker 2: be in a really interesting spot. I think there'd be
21:52
Speaker 2: a good market for Gray. I want the best, oh yeah,
21:57
Speaker 2: and I want the best for Nolan Aernado. So I
22:02
Speaker 2: look when I okay, I want to make something clear
22:04
Speaker 2: when I talk about Gray and Contraras and Arnato or
22:07
Speaker 2: even you know, Walker or Gorman, I'm going to use
22:10
Speaker 2: a phrase, but it really applies as a general overview.
22:14
Speaker 2: I think it'll be really good for hein Bloom to
22:16
Speaker 2: get the work and kind of declutter this roster, which
22:20
Speaker 2: which also includes getting rid of some of these entanglements
22:24
Speaker 2: where you have so much redundancy in so many areas.
22:28
Speaker 2: I think he'll start to hack into that, and I
22:30
Speaker 2: think that's a really positive development for the Cardinals. I
22:36
Speaker 2: also think that this group is so smart, and I
22:38
Speaker 2: think the way that you know, Matt Pierpont's already impacting
22:43
Speaker 2: their pictures in development. You know, when I look at that,
22:47
Speaker 2: I actually think this rebuild could maybe progress a little
22:51
Speaker 2: little faster or moderately faster than I would have imagined.
22:56
Speaker 2: I think they got some things going. But the one thing, Katie,
22:59
Speaker 2: as you know, where is the power? I mean, we
23:05
Speaker 2: talk about starting pitching. The Cardinals have attacked that problem.
23:07
Speaker 2: They've got guys in development, Legit, guys, where is the
23:13
Speaker 2: power going to come from? Because I wrote a couple
23:17
Speaker 2: of things about this, I've talked about it. This is
23:20
Speaker 2: a power hitting game. As much as people want to
23:23
Speaker 2: talk about small ball, if you can't hit home runs,
23:28
Speaker 2: you are so limited in what you can do. And
23:30
Speaker 2: these playoffs, not counting Game seven, but in the postseason,
23:37
Speaker 2: the team that hit the most home runs in a
23:40
Speaker 2: game twenty three and four. Now there were ten games
23:44
Speaker 2: or eleven games where both teams had the same amount
23:47
Speaker 2: of home runs. But the impact of home runs regular
23:51
Speaker 2: season two, but you get into the postseason, it's huge.
23:53
Speaker 2: And I look on the horizon out over the horizon,
23:57
Speaker 2: I don't see it. There's some people you look at
23:59
Speaker 2: and say, well, maybe it's Joshua Baias a couple of years,
24:03
Speaker 2: maybe it's that catcher, but he's eighteen years old. He's
24:06
Speaker 2: got Randio Rodriguez. He's got a long way to go.
24:09
Speaker 2: Where is the power. It is an alarm shortage of
24:12
Speaker 2: power that you have in the organization and have at
24:15
Speaker 2: the major league level, unless all of a sudden Gorman
24:18
Speaker 2: really gets locked in and stays there. I think that
24:21
Speaker 2: is a huge, huge problem and a really really big
24:27
Speaker 2: assignment for hein Bloom. They've got to find power.
24:31
Speaker 1: And maybe that comes from because you're spun on about
24:33
Speaker 1: the pitching. Like every organization, especially the Cardinals, needs to
24:36
Speaker 1: develop starting pitching because the prices on the free agent
24:39
Speaker 1: market you're never going to match. But maybe the Cardinals
24:44
Speaker 1: in this rebuild can generate enough homegrown talent where they
24:47
Speaker 1: can go out and trade for power. Because I agree
24:49
Speaker 1: with you, I don't see any name right now in
24:52
Speaker 1: October twenty twenty five where I say that's a power bat,
24:55
Speaker 1: that's a lineup changing bat, like Yvonn Herrera is a
24:59
Speaker 1: good bat. But what twenty homers if we're lucky for
25:02
Speaker 1: Vonn twenty homers from Contreras, Like you need a power hitter.
25:05
Speaker 1: Look at the playoffs right now, how did the Blue
25:07
Speaker 1: Jays win the Pennant Lee a lead changing homer in
25:12
Speaker 1: the seventh from George Springer? So Tani okay, like you
25:17
Speaker 1: need power in this day and age and the Cardinals,
25:19
Speaker 1: that's gonna be a big test for heim Bloom to
25:21
Speaker 1: go out and find. So spotlight, mister hym is on you,
25:25
Speaker 1: big dog. That's aah And he.
25:28
Speaker 2: May you know, and he may not. It may be
25:30
Speaker 2: unrealistic to expect him to get that right away, but
25:32
Speaker 2: sometime over the next couple of years. And I know
25:34
Speaker 2: that they're looking at Baias as a guy could be
25:37
Speaker 2: that guy. But even if he comes to the majors
25:39
Speaker 2: late next season whatever, it's not like he's going to
25:42
Speaker 2: come to the major leagues and you know, his first month,
25:45
Speaker 2: in his first six months in the major leagues, he's
25:47
Speaker 2: going to have like twenty three home runs. You know,
25:49
Speaker 2: he's gonna have to grow into the role. But he's
25:51
Speaker 2: got the skills, he's got the ability to do it.
25:53
Speaker 1: Power takes time to develop. But here we are again
25:56
Speaker 1: about to embark on an off season of development and
25:59
Speaker 1: a twenty twenty six season of development. You can download
26:03
Speaker 1: the Draft Kings Sportsbook app now and grab three hundred
26:06
Speaker 1: dollars in bonus bets with just a five dollars bet
26:09
Speaker 1: when we go live December first, in partnership with Draft
26:12
Speaker 1: Kings Sportsbook. Quick ad read Bernie, I'll be right back
26:15
Speaker 1: with you.
26:16
Speaker 3: Gambling problem called one eight hundred. Gambler must be eighteen
26:19
Speaker 3: and over. Agent eligibility restrictions vary by jurisdiction. Void work prohibited,
26:23
Speaker 3: New customers only, minimum five dollars deposit. Bonus picks expire
26:26
Speaker 3: one hundred and sixty eight hours after issue in four
26:28
Speaker 3: additional terms and responsible gaming resources Seepick six dot DraftKings
26:32
Speaker 3: dot com slash promos.
26:35
Speaker 1: All right, well, hope if I got rid of this banner,
26:37
Speaker 1: which is my one job, suit read hang it. I
26:40
Speaker 1: was doing so good from one segment to another. We're
26:43
Speaker 1: going to launch into our Fox one segment, and Bernie,
26:46
Speaker 1: I think what better way to do it than talk
26:48
Speaker 1: about some World Series predictions. So let's get this queued up.
26:54
Speaker 1: We'll be right back once I can find it. I'm
26:56
Speaker 1: not doing good. I was doing so good. But then
26:57
Speaker 1: we reached halftime and I fell apart. All right, here
26:59
Speaker 1: we Fox one. Okay, that was not enough time for
27:06
Speaker 1: me to get that up. That one's not my fault.
27:08
Speaker 1: Here we go, all right. Cardinal Territory, as you know,
27:13
Speaker 1: is brought to you by Fox one. Fox one is
27:14
Speaker 1: now live. You can stream all your Fox favorites together
27:17
Speaker 1: in one place, including the World Series. The one hundred
27:20
Speaker 1: and twenty first World Series will take place starting in
27:23
Speaker 1: Toronto on Friday. It's the Blue Jays, It's the Dodgers.
27:28
Speaker 1: One team we expected to be here, one team we
27:30
Speaker 1: did not. The Blue Jay's first World Series appearance since
27:32
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, that literally before I was born. So
27:36
Speaker 1: I love this for Toronto. I love playoff Flatty. I
27:40
Speaker 1: also know how this is gonna go Dodgers in five Bernie,
27:43
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts?
27:45
Speaker 2: You know, I was one of these fools that thought, well,
27:50
Speaker 2: the Milwaukee Brewers, they know how to score runs in
27:52
Speaker 2: a lot of ways. They'll give the Dodgers a competition.
27:55
Speaker 2: They did, and of course they got splattered. Oh god,
27:58
Speaker 2: you know. And it's and by the way, I don't
28:00
Speaker 2: think it has much to do with the payroll. I
28:02
Speaker 2: think it's just that Dodgers starting pitching.
28:05
Speaker 1: Was just sick, so Ro sat for that, I know.
28:10
Speaker 2: I mean, so here's the deal, though, I think Toronto
28:13
Speaker 2: is an interesting opponent because Toronto, I mean, they're averaging
28:17
Speaker 2: like six and a half runs during the postseason. They're
28:19
Speaker 2: hitting home runs all over the place, they're drawing walks,
28:22
Speaker 2: they're hitting for average, They're I mean, that is a
28:25
Speaker 2: really that is a really really strong offense. But but
28:30
Speaker 2: it's not like what the Dodgers starting pitchers did was
28:33
Speaker 2: a fluke in the whole postseason, but especially the NLCS.
28:37
Speaker 2: And you know me, mister numbers. You know the the
28:41
Speaker 2: NLCS or the League Championship Series began in nineteen sixty nine.
28:48
Speaker 2: The Dodgers against the Brewers had a zero point sixty
28:50
Speaker 2: three starting pitching eer and they let they They gave
28:55
Speaker 2: up an ninety six batting average to the Brewers. They
28:59
Speaker 2: stranded ninety six percent of the guys that got on base,
29:02
Speaker 2: They allowed zero point two five home runs per nine innings.
29:06
Speaker 2: They just absolutely just destroyed that lineup and that zero
29:12
Speaker 2: point six y three e er in a championship series
29:15
Speaker 2: American nationallygue both the very best since the Championship Series
29:21
Speaker 2: came into being in nineteen sixty nine. We just saw
29:23
Speaker 2: historically epic performance. And again it's not a fluke. It's
29:28
Speaker 2: not a fluke that with the way Yamamoto's pitching, and
29:31
Speaker 2: glass now and Snow Snell, sorry Snell, and then Otani
29:36
Speaker 2: after that first start was a little you know, but
29:39
Speaker 2: his last start to clinch his last performance for it,
29:43
Speaker 2: you know, and for the entire postseason. I mean, they're there.
29:46
Speaker 2: Er is the starting pitchers is ridiculous. It's like one
29:50
Speaker 2: forty or something. I don't I think maybe Toronto can
29:54
Speaker 2: get to them a little bit more, or maybe even
29:57
Speaker 2: a couple of games get to them, But that's starting
30:00
Speaker 2: pitching is just so overpowering and it's peaked at the
30:04
Speaker 2: right time, and it's for real. I don't see how
30:10
Speaker 2: anybody can withstand that and survive. I really don't. But
30:14
Speaker 2: I think the Blue Jays at least give them a fight.
30:17
Speaker 2: I you said five, you know, I wouldn't be surprised
30:20
Speaker 2: if they win a couple of games because I respect
30:22
Speaker 2: their offense so much, and I there's just something about
30:26
Speaker 2: that team. The whole vibe around that team is really great.
30:28
Speaker 2: So anyway, I'll be quiet.
30:30
Speaker 1: No. I think this is a good point because if
30:31
Speaker 1: I'm playing Devil's advocate, look, I've after spending limited time
30:34
Speaker 1: around the Dodgers in their clubhouse over the last two weeks.
30:38
Speaker 1: They are four aces in their rotation. That's just absurd.
30:41
Speaker 1: And they are all peaking at healthy at the same time.
30:45
Speaker 1: And when you're hot, you're hot, and there's no team
30:47
Speaker 1: hotter than the Dodgers right now. But I look at
30:49
Speaker 1: this Blue Jays team, and if I'm going to build
30:51
Speaker 1: an argument for Toronto, I'm going with this. There was
30:54
Speaker 1: no I watched one hundred and sixty two basically Cardinals
30:58
Speaker 1: games this year, there was no team that matched up
31:01
Speaker 1: worse for Saint Louis than Toronto. I mean across the board.
31:05
Speaker 1: I remember looking at the Toronto series and looking at
31:08
Speaker 1: kind of how they're matched up, and they had a
31:09
Speaker 1: couple guys hurt, but all in all, it's a stat
31:12
Speaker 1: or a lineup that makes a ton of contact. And
31:14
Speaker 1: the Cardinals, I didn't think we're going to have an
31:16
Speaker 1: answer for them, and they did. They were swept. Toronto
31:19
Speaker 1: soundly defeated the Cardinals by far. It was their toughest
31:24
Speaker 1: series all season long, the one thing that I can
31:27
Speaker 1: say about Toronto, and if I'm going to nitpick the
31:29
Speaker 1: Dodgers a little bit, Toronto was Baseball's best comeback team
31:34
Speaker 1: this season. The Dodgers have some questions about their bullpen.
31:38
Speaker 1: Although it helps when you have yet another starny pitcher
31:41
Speaker 1: that you can just plug in as your de facto
31:42
Speaker 1: closer in rookie Sasaki and then he's good in his
31:45
Speaker 1: rookie year, I don't get it. It also doesn't matter
31:48
Speaker 1: if you don't have a lot of arms that you
31:50
Speaker 1: trust in your bullpen, if you have a rotation that
31:51
Speaker 1: goes seven or eight each time. But whatever, I digress.
31:54
Speaker 1: The Blue Jay's ability to post comeback wins and have
31:58
Speaker 1: the lineup that they do with some slug with some power.
32:01
Speaker 1: They're very athletic, could give the Dodgers late Indians some
32:05
Speaker 1: tough tests. So I will say that I don't think
32:09
Speaker 1: when I thought the Brewers would win one game, and
32:12
Speaker 1: when they didn't win Game one and their most prime
32:14
Speaker 1: scoring opportunity, I knew after Game one that they would
32:17
Speaker 1: be swept. I just knew it, like that was their
32:19
Speaker 1: game to steal. They didn't do it, not for lack
32:22
Speaker 1: of effort. And then the Dodgers went out to steamroll
32:24
Speaker 1: them for the next three games. If Toronto can use
32:26
Speaker 1: their comeback powers, which they've shown all season long into
32:29
Speaker 1: the postseason that they are baseball's best comeback team and
32:32
Speaker 1: get to a bullpen that still has some question mark,
32:34
Speaker 1: although I think they're more defined now that you know
32:36
Speaker 1: what you can do with Sasak. You know, if you
32:38
Speaker 1: can push him. You have guys like like trying and
32:40
Speaker 1: looking more effective Alex Vesia, you have emt Sheen for multiples.
32:44
Speaker 1: That is where the real matchup is the late Indians.
32:46
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone can touch the starting pitching. Maybe
32:49
Speaker 1: playoff Laddie because he's really good and really fun to watch.
32:51
Speaker 1: But the one thing that Toronto has for its advantage
32:55
Speaker 1: is their ability to rally late against If there's one
32:58
Speaker 1: weaker area of the Dogs, it is their bullpen.
33:01
Speaker 2: So maybe I agree. Yeah, I can see here's the
33:04
Speaker 2: key to I just want to jump on your point
33:08
Speaker 2: and go with the two. Here's the key they the
33:14
Speaker 2: Blue Jays don't have to beat up the Sorry, the
33:19
Speaker 2: Dodgers starting pitching like no one's saying, well, well, they're
33:21
Speaker 2: gonna have to maul those guys, you know, they're gonna
33:23
Speaker 2: have to score six runs. You know, they're gonna have
33:25
Speaker 2: to you know, beat them all up and score a
33:27
Speaker 2: bunch of runs. No, we're not saying that. If though,
33:31
Speaker 2: if it's gonna be a long series, if there's a
33:33
Speaker 2: couple of series where they can knock a couple of games, sorry,
33:36
Speaker 2: where they can knock a Dodgers starter out earlier, then
33:39
Speaker 2: maybe we think where the game is still a game.
33:43
Speaker 2: But the Dodgers starters in this postseason have averaged over
33:45
Speaker 2: six innings per start, and they could probably have actually
33:48
Speaker 2: gone deeper. So if they can just get during the
33:52
Speaker 2: course of the series, if they can get they can
33:54
Speaker 2: get a couple or you know, maybe maybe two or
33:57
Speaker 2: three times, get them out a little or earlier, maybe
34:01
Speaker 2: five innings, maybe four and two thirds something like that,
34:04
Speaker 2: then that that gives to your point, that gives Toronto
34:07
Speaker 2: a chance to get into that Dodger's bullpen and then
34:10
Speaker 2: things can happen. And so that that's something I think
34:13
Speaker 2: it's mandatory for the Blue Jays to do. And uh,
34:18
Speaker 2: you know, we'll we'll see if they do it. And
34:20
Speaker 2: my gosh, George Springer, Lattie's unreal, you know, And I
34:24
Speaker 2: was comparing the Blue Jays Blue Jays rebuild to what
34:28
Speaker 2: the Cardinals are going to do to try to rebuild,
34:29
Speaker 2: because the Blue Blue Jays have shown you can rebuild
34:32
Speaker 2: and come out of it looking good. Uh. One small
34:35
Speaker 2: difference though, you know, I don't see a Vladdie Guerrero junior. Yeah,
34:39
Speaker 2: you know, it's up. And then the Blue Jays were
34:42
Speaker 2: actually still pretty aggressive even as they were coming out
34:45
Speaker 2: of the rebuild. You know, they go out and signed
34:46
Speaker 2: Springer for example. So, but not to get off track,
34:49
Speaker 2: but I really do think Toronto is certainly a more
34:52
Speaker 2: dangerous team than even the Phillies, who the Dodgers beat
34:56
Speaker 2: three out of four. It's going to be really really interesting.
34:59
Speaker 2: But that that is a lethal offense, and the Dodgers
35:04
Speaker 2: are going to continue to have to just get a
35:06
Speaker 2: lot of miles on a lot of great innings out
35:09
Speaker 2: of that that rotation. By the way, I give them
35:11
Speaker 2: a lot of credit. I know they've got the four
35:14
Speaker 2: hundred million dollars payroll and all that, but they're also
35:16
Speaker 2: really really smart.
35:17
Speaker 1: There that part that exact that front office, that executive
35:21
Speaker 1: team is right.
35:23
Speaker 2: Last last October, it was the entirely different thing. You know,
35:27
Speaker 2: their their starting pitching was in tatters. Yes, and they
35:31
Speaker 2: they rode their bullpen hard. I mean just they It
35:33
Speaker 2: seemed like they used twenty thousand different relievers, you know,
35:37
Speaker 2: and this year it's the exact opposite. But that wasn't
35:40
Speaker 2: just a random thing. I mean, the Dodgers last offseason
35:44
Speaker 2: just no, we can't do this again. And they decided,
35:46
Speaker 2: we're going with a really aggressive plan to make sure
35:50
Speaker 2: these starting pitchers are fresh when they go into the postseason.
35:54
Speaker 2: We're to change their schedules. We're going to skip over them.
35:57
Speaker 2: If a guy's a little sore, little bang up, bang up,
36:00
Speaker 2: we're going to put them to the side. We are
36:03
Speaker 2: not going to push these guys and burn them out,
36:06
Speaker 2: have them go into October, second year row where we
36:09
Speaker 2: have all this talent in our rotation, but it's beat
36:13
Speaker 2: up talent. We're not going to have. That will not
36:15
Speaker 2: happen again, and they made sure it didn't and look
36:17
Speaker 2: at the results. They're smart. So don't just people just
36:20
Speaker 2: want to well, well, if they spend that much, they
36:23
Speaker 2: better wit. No, they're really really smart to go along
36:26
Speaker 2: with they have the brain power to match their financial powers.
36:29
Speaker 1: What I'm trying to say, that's a fantastic point, because
36:32
Speaker 1: I think you can get that up with the spending whatever.
36:35
Speaker 1: I highly doubt that Cardinals fans are going to be
36:38
Speaker 1: agreeable to a team with a billion dollar payroll, I understand.
36:41
Speaker 1: But how they've managed their assets, how they manage their talent,
36:44
Speaker 1: because they have put themselves in such a good position
36:47
Speaker 1: to have depth because they don't just buy whoever they want.
36:50
Speaker 1: They also draft and develop very very well. They really do.
36:53
Speaker 1: They're one of the best teams in baseball. In doing that,
36:56
Speaker 1: they allowed themselves to manage the first half. Okay, we
36:59
Speaker 1: have guys that aren't healthy right now, but we're gonna
37:01
Speaker 1: need them in October, so let's use some of this
37:03
Speaker 1: other talent that we have in the wings. And that's
37:06
Speaker 1: led them to exactly where they are right now. So
37:07
Speaker 1: that's a great point, Bernie.
37:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, and by the way, you had tipped to Max Shures.
37:12
Speaker 2: Are great to see him back on the.
37:14
Speaker 1: Back in the World Series.
37:15
Speaker 2: He was great. He saved their season the other night.
37:18
Speaker 2: But now I think I'm looking forward to this because
37:20
Speaker 2: I think it's going to be a colorful and fun
37:23
Speaker 2: World Series and I think at least at least the
37:27
Speaker 2: Blue Jays to use the cliche certainly have the capability
37:32
Speaker 2: of busting the Dodgers in the mouth's mouth a couple
37:34
Speaker 2: of times.
37:35
Speaker 1: Right, we'll see. I don't think it'll be a sweep.
37:40
Speaker 1: I'm still sticking with my Dodgers in five, but I
37:42
Speaker 1: would not be opposed if I hear Dodgers and six.
37:45
Speaker 1: I still think the Dodgers are going to win it,
37:46
Speaker 1: but I think turn On it will be a formidable opponent.
37:50
Speaker 1: Which you can watch all of that action, by the way,
37:52
Speaker 1: on Fox One, from MLV post season to NFL on
37:56
Speaker 1: Fox to Big Noon Saturdays with Fox One.
37:59
Speaker 2: You get it all.
38:00
Speaker 1: Start your seven day free trial today. Offers are subject
38:03
Speaker 1: to change, but at Fox one dot com for complete
38:05
Speaker 1: terms and conditions. Box one streaming. Now, all right, Bertie,
38:13
Speaker 1: wrapping up our episode. Any last thing that we should
38:16
Speaker 1: talk about. I mean, again, I don't think we'll have
38:17
Speaker 1: much to unless the coaching changes are finalized. Again, I
38:20
Speaker 1: say coaching changes lightly. I don't think they're going to
38:22
Speaker 1: be any anything that we should be monitoring before November.
38:27
Speaker 2: No, I mean there's nothing much to monitor, you know,
38:31
Speaker 2: until heim Bloom starts to shuffle the cards. Ah ha,
38:35
Speaker 2: you know, so I know, No, really, when it's action time.
38:40
Speaker 2: That's we'll have a lot to talk about. But I'm
38:42
Speaker 2: with you there, I don't I don't foresee any coaching changes.
38:46
Speaker 2: In fact, I kind of if you don't mind me
38:48
Speaker 2: throwing this in episode KMOX the other day doing the
38:51
Speaker 2: Gas House Gang and people were asking like, well, do
38:54
Speaker 2: you think you know Yadaa Maline is going to be
38:58
Speaker 2: a coach for the Cardinals this coming season? And I
39:01
Speaker 2: said no, no, and people people like, I'm not laughing
39:06
Speaker 2: at that, but like even some of my colleagues, my brothers,
39:09
Speaker 2: and I love them, they were kind of.
39:11
Speaker 1: Like, that's what I'm laughing about. I'm laughing at the
39:14
Speaker 1: taking aback. Yeah, And this is no disrespect for Yadia. Obviously,
39:18
Speaker 1: it's not.
39:19
Speaker 2: It's not happening.
39:19
Speaker 1: It's just not happening, and it's not it's not the
39:22
Speaker 1: right time. And I would be very if both of
39:25
Speaker 1: us are wrong about this.
39:27
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a there's a centia of chance. But yeah,
39:30
Speaker 2: I know, I think my read is that decisions already
39:34
Speaker 2: been made so well, And can could you, uh, with
39:41
Speaker 2: your contacts, Katie, could you talk Albert Poohles into taking
39:44
Speaker 2: the Orioles managing job. I don't think you will. I
39:46
Speaker 2: think it's yeah.
39:49
Speaker 1: I was not surprised at all to see the Angels
39:51
Speaker 1: thing fall through, just knowing the Angels. But I don't
39:56
Speaker 1: know between those two teams. I think we'll see Albert
39:59
Speaker 1: Pools as a manager and twenty twenty six, and if
40:02
Speaker 1: I had to pledge my allegiance to a team, I
40:05
Speaker 1: think it would be San Diego over Baltimore. But that's
40:10
Speaker 1: not for sure either. San Diego. What a mess over
40:12
Speaker 1: there every franchise.
40:14
Speaker 2: I was going to ask you, and I know we're
40:16
Speaker 2: going forty minutes and I'm sorry, but I have to
40:19
Speaker 2: ask you. Your reaction to the Mike Shilt meltdown, Well,
40:23
Speaker 2: I mean, it's amazing it happened again.
40:27
Speaker 1: I was walking. I was in the Walgreens in Milwaukee,
40:31
Speaker 1: getting ready for NLCS Game one, and I had my
40:35
Speaker 1: headphones in so it read us one of my someone
40:38
Speaker 1: had texted me a tweet and all I heard was like,
40:41
Speaker 1: Mike Schilt and I put all my stuff down and
40:44
Speaker 1: I was like again, Because MLB has a rule where
40:49
Speaker 1: during postseason games, teams need to get approval to have
40:53
Speaker 1: news break like that. Now, technically this wasn't a team
40:55
Speaker 1: announcing it. It was reported by the San Diego Union interview
40:57
Speaker 1: and my friend Kevin Ac did a next job doing that.
41:00
Speaker 1: But I put everything down and I was like, I'm
41:02
Speaker 1: going to get so many text and phone calls in
41:04
Speaker 1: the next five minutes, and I did. It was the
41:06
Speaker 1: exact same situation in twenty twenty one, and disbelief, like
41:10
Speaker 1: can you believe this is happening again? Or what do
41:12
Speaker 1: you think happened here? I think it'd be unfair to
41:15
Speaker 1: speculate because, unlike twenty twenty one, I'm not there with
41:17
Speaker 1: the organization every day. I have no idea what really
41:20
Speaker 1: went down behind the scenes. But at this point, it's
41:23
Speaker 1: a pattern, right, And this is Mike Schilt's a baseball lifer, dude, Like.
41:29
Speaker 2: He's terrific, man.
41:30
Speaker 1: I agree, And I'm never going to say like someone's
41:34
Speaker 1: mental health is less important than a baseball game and
41:37
Speaker 1: the toll that it takes to manage a major league team.
41:41
Speaker 1: Look around the league. No manager looks good in October. Okay,
41:44
Speaker 1: they look beat up. We're all beat up. I would
41:46
Speaker 1: imagine that there was definitely some mental toll there, but
41:52
Speaker 1: it would have to be an extreme amount for Mike Schult,
41:54
Speaker 1: who's given his entire life to baseball to step away.
41:57
Speaker 1: I talked with him briefly. He said, he's at piece
41:58
Speaker 1: of the decision. I believe it. I also believe there's
42:01
Speaker 1: probably more of the story there, just like there's more
42:03
Speaker 1: to the story in Saint Louis.
42:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, I listen. I've said this before, maybe on kmo X.
42:08
Speaker 2: I I would have wagered a lot of money that
42:13
Speaker 2: after Shilt got fired in Saint Louis basically for bullying
42:17
Speaker 2: coaches and coaches basically saying, we're not putting up with
42:22
Speaker 2: this anymore. You're you treat as poorly, there's no need
42:25
Speaker 2: for you know, this kind of abuse, and just to
42:28
Speaker 2: be so personal and nasty. And he was so crushed
42:33
Speaker 2: to lose that job. He was so crushed. I would
42:36
Speaker 2: have bet a lot of money that he would have
42:38
Speaker 2: reflected and he would have said, look, I just have
42:44
Speaker 2: to do better with the people that work around me.
42:46
Speaker 2: I just have to do better, because I listen when
42:51
Speaker 2: I I know about this a little bit, because like
42:55
Speaker 2: in one of my radio stops, I felt a lot
42:57
Speaker 2: of pressure on me and I wasn't as good to
43:00
Speaker 2: producers as I should have been. I just wasn't. I
43:03
Speaker 2: was kind of a jerk. I have no problem in
43:05
Speaker 2: admitting that, and I said, you know, if I get
43:08
Speaker 2: back in this position again, it'll never happen again. Never,
43:12
Speaker 2: And it hasn't. I thought that Schild would learn from
43:16
Speaker 2: that and it would make him better and he'd be
43:18
Speaker 2: more even keeled. But he's a great manager. He wouldn't
43:21
Speaker 2: be safe, self destructive. I was floored when it happened again.
43:27
Speaker 2: I was absolutely floored. And it's just a shame because
43:31
Speaker 2: he's so talented and he does pour his heart and
43:34
Speaker 2: soul in it. But I don't know what makes him
43:36
Speaker 2: sort of go haywire. And I do know this, John
43:42
Speaker 2: Mozelac looks up John Mazzelac is I don't know if
43:45
Speaker 2: he's owed an apology. But people ought to reconsider this
43:48
Speaker 2: whole episode because, you know, the non there was a
43:53
Speaker 2: non disclosure agreement, which is why he used the well,
43:57
Speaker 2: you know, philosophical differences, because he didn't want to do
43:59
Speaker 2: any thing. First of all, there was an agreement, but
44:02
Speaker 2: mo also didn't want to do anything. He respected Shilt
44:05
Speaker 2: so much, even though they had to make the change,
44:07
Speaker 2: he did not want to do anything to hurt Shilt's
44:10
Speaker 2: chances of getting another job. So that's why Mo took
44:12
Speaker 2: the hit. He took the punches to the gut, to
44:14
Speaker 2: the face, the insults for that philosophical differences thing. And
44:19
Speaker 2: I understand why people were frustrated with that, But there
44:21
Speaker 2: was a reason why he did it, and I think he.
44:24
Speaker 2: I think he. I think people did have a fair mind.
44:28
Speaker 2: I think they understand that now. And I also think
44:31
Speaker 2: Ali Marmel deserves some consideration of like, well, maybe we
44:35
Speaker 2: misread this, because it still bothers me to this day.
44:39
Speaker 2: You know, Oh, he's a puppet. He's a puppet. That's
44:41
Speaker 2: why I fired shild He wanted a puppet. He wanted
44:43
Speaker 2: a puffet. Ali is no one's puppet, Hi, that I know, right? Right?
44:49
Speaker 2: I mean Oli went on k mox like four times
44:52
Speaker 2: this year and basically said I want Michael McGreevy, but
44:56
Speaker 2: I don't pick the roster.
44:57
Speaker 1: Yes he did. The writer everyone wouldst.
45:02
Speaker 2: Does anybody with a brain think that a puppet would
45:05
Speaker 2: do that? On the on the on the the Cardinal's
45:08
Speaker 2: right rights holder station, basically take on his general manager
45:14
Speaker 2: on live radio.
45:15
Speaker 1: He had, he had two front offices he was working under.
45:18
Speaker 2: That's right, But so I think, uh, I think people
45:21
Speaker 2: that jumped to conclusions with that, I think they you
45:25
Speaker 2: know what, there's such hatred for mo Inas town and
45:28
Speaker 2: I don't understand why. Yeah, I don't understand why people
45:31
Speaker 2: dislike Ali so much, but those people won't reconsider and
45:36
Speaker 2: be fair and revisit their opinions on that. But I
45:39
Speaker 2: think both of those guys come out looking a lot better.
45:41
Speaker 1: There's not much I can say in the situation, but
45:43
Speaker 1: I will say this. I agree that John Mose locked
45:46
Speaker 1: at what he could to protect both the organization and
45:49
Speaker 1: Mike Schiltz. I think there was a sense of appreciation
45:52
Speaker 1: for what Shilt did for the for the Saint Louis Cardinals.
45:55
Speaker 1: I mean, he dedicated twenty plus years of his life here,
45:58
Speaker 1: and I think Mode did what he could at the
46:01
Speaker 1: expense of his own self to protect everybody involved in
46:04
Speaker 1: that situation, his employees, Shilt, and the Cardinal's reputation. Because
46:10
Speaker 1: say what you want about mo he did whatever he
46:12
Speaker 1: could preserve the Cardinals organization's reputation. And I think going
46:17
Speaker 1: out and handling it philosophical differences. I understand fans frustration.
46:20
Speaker 1: Do you think I wasn't frustrated? Do you think I
46:22
Speaker 1: didn't know that there was something else going on, and
46:24
Speaker 1: knowing that he couldn't say anything. I think he did
46:26
Speaker 1: that to protect everyone involved. And I think the longer
46:30
Speaker 1: that this, you know, eventually everything will come out, the
46:32
Speaker 1: truth behind it. I don't think everyone knows the truth
46:34
Speaker 1: behind it, or can say it in a place where
46:36
Speaker 1: they can like definitively report it to a standard that
46:40
Speaker 1: would be that would meet like reporting standards, right otherwise
46:43
Speaker 1: it would have been done by now. I do think
46:46
Speaker 1: he was doing his best to protect his own employees
46:48
Speaker 1: and give Shields another chance. And I do agree that
46:53
Speaker 1: the way that it was handled was probably the only
46:54
Speaker 1: way it could have been handled, did not set all
46:57
Speaker 1: up for success. And to this day he is not
47:00
Speaker 1: seen as someone who is not deserving of this job,
47:02
Speaker 1: someone who has handed this job because of the organization's
47:05
Speaker 1: lack of clarity around why his predecessor was fired.
47:08
Speaker 2: So and ironically, Ali followed the same exact path as
47:11
Speaker 2: Mike Child. Literally, yeah, same thing. John Schnyder in Toronto,
47:17
Speaker 2: the Blue Jays drafted him in two thousand and two.
47:20
Speaker 2: He's been a Blue Jay the entire way, every step
47:22
Speaker 2: of the way. The fans in Toronto appreciate that they start.
47:25
Speaker 1: Writing so much of Olie and I don't understand. Maybe
47:29
Speaker 1: because he's winning. I don't know.
47:32
Speaker 2: And I said something in a column the other day,
47:34
Speaker 2: I said, you know, you know Schneider. They could have
47:36
Speaker 2: fired him after twenty twenty four, but they didn't, and
47:38
Speaker 2: the fans were glad he was coming back. He's a
47:41
Speaker 2: lifelong blue Jay and that matters. That's a big deal
47:43
Speaker 2: in today's game. And I basically said, it's just why
47:48
Speaker 2: doesn't Ali Marvel get the same respect for the same
47:51
Speaker 2: thing a life. He's been a Cardinal his entire professional life.
47:55
Speaker 2: He loves this right, he loves this organization. He has
47:59
Speaker 2: served it well. People need to just quit. They just
48:03
Speaker 2: need to throw down their hate and at least try
48:06
Speaker 2: to be fair with this guy. I don't get it it, boys, I'm.
48:09
Speaker 1: Eating a sense just based on comments at the Athletic
48:12
Speaker 1: and on this show that things are turning a little bit.
48:15
Speaker 2: I agree.
48:16
Speaker 1: I do finally see a shit And I'm not saying
48:19
Speaker 1: he's like world's perfect manager. He deserves a lot more
48:21
Speaker 1: credit than what he currently gets. But I don't blame
48:24
Speaker 1: fans for looking at the state of the Cardinals from
48:26
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three to now, and being like, this sucks,
48:31
Speaker 1: because guess what it sucks being in on the Dodgers
48:34
Speaker 1: winning clubhouse, champagne everywhere everyone's celebrating. I was like, what,
48:38
Speaker 1: have a nice experience this? So I understand. And when
48:40
Speaker 1: the team is losing, it's easy to just look at
48:42
Speaker 1: the manager. That's what they're there for. No, especially in
48:45
Speaker 1: this town, is a are fan's going to point at
48:47
Speaker 1: the players? Okay? I do think though the nature as
48:52
Speaker 1: to which Allie was hired and how he was appointed
48:54
Speaker 1: to this position invited a lot of skepticism and a
48:57
Speaker 1: lot of doubt. He was also thirty five when he
48:59
Speaker 1: was hired. Cardinals managers are't ever that young, but he's
49:02
Speaker 1: a lifelong Cardinal and I would hope that that carries
49:06
Speaker 1: more weight going forward because he's now being tasked to
49:09
Speaker 1: oversee the first rebuild in thirty years. And we'll see
49:12
Speaker 1: how it goes. But I'm with you. John Scheider reminds
49:15
Speaker 1: me a lot of Olie Marmal with two completely different
49:17
Speaker 1: fan reactions.
49:18
Speaker 2: Right. I think Olly had the most thankless job in
49:22
Speaker 2: managing last season. I really do. Now, some people say, well,
49:24
Speaker 2: what about these teams that had no chance to win?
49:26
Speaker 2: That's but everybody knows that. So it's not like some
49:30
Speaker 2: big but what he was asked to do last year.
49:33
Speaker 2: Basically he's working for two different bosses. He's trying to
49:39
Speaker 2: coordinate everything, and it's like a reset. It's not a
49:43
Speaker 2: rebuild for winning.
49:44
Speaker 1: But like you can't the players that are like doing
49:46
Speaker 1: the best.
49:48
Speaker 2: He wants Michael McGreevy. He can't get the front office
49:51
Speaker 2: to give him Michael McGreevy until much later in the season.
49:54
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just like, how do you manage in
49:58
Speaker 2: that circumstance? People say like, well, why are you so
50:01
Speaker 2: why are you so positive about Ali? I said, well,
50:05
Speaker 2: I think I'm fair about Ali. Who in the heck, Like,
50:09
Speaker 2: what manager? Is there any established manager in Major League
50:13
Speaker 2: Baseball who would want to manage under those circumstances. No, No,
50:17
Speaker 2: it's a horrible spot to be in.
50:20
Speaker 1: Now that I'm removed from the season, I can look
50:22
Speaker 1: back and think of like what the last seven months were,
50:25
Speaker 1: and I'm like, what the heck was that. I know,
50:28
Speaker 1: in the moment, you just kind of accept that this
50:30
Speaker 1: is your faith, this is your reality, like this is
50:31
Speaker 1: the team you were a signed to cover, so just go
50:33
Speaker 1: do it. But then looking back. I'm like, who does this?
50:37
Speaker 1: It's he survived. I'm glad he's back for twenty twenty six.
50:42
Speaker 1: I get a lot of pushback, like the writers are
50:44
Speaker 1: only like praising all these comments because he gives them access.
50:47
Speaker 1: First of all, no one gives us access.
50:49
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that's that's that's a tired, stupid narrative. It works.
50:53
Speaker 1: Also, you think that this, like with the invited access
51:00
Speaker 1: and the how he makes himself available, doesn't always mean
51:02
Speaker 1: those are happy conversations. Okay, let me let you know.
51:05
Speaker 1: They're not always happy conversations. There is a lot of discourse, right,
51:09
Speaker 1: not all of it at an even level tempo. They're
51:12
Speaker 1: very high, some yelling perhaps. But what we appreciate about
51:16
Speaker 1: him and I notice is that he is fair. So
51:18
Speaker 1: I hope he gets his turn at a fairs out
51:20
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six. Whatever that looks like.
51:22
Speaker 2: You made me laugh because it's so predictable. As soon
51:25
Speaker 2: as Ali Marvel started doing the show and camex every Tuesday,
51:30
Speaker 2: so the first thing, well, you only say you only
51:33
Speaker 2: defend him because you know he works at Camox, so
51:36
Speaker 2: you have to protect him. Oh's that right? Uh? One
51:41
Speaker 2: of the early shows I actually said this to Ali.
51:43
Speaker 2: Marma said, Ali, I thought, I thought your team kind
51:46
Speaker 2: of quit here on this last road trip. But it
51:49
Speaker 2: wasn't good body. It wasn't good body. It was it
51:52
Speaker 2: was part of them. Yeah, it wasn't good body language.
51:55
Speaker 2: I didn't see the effort, and I know fans are
51:58
Speaker 2: upset about. Yeah, so I'm trying to protect victim by
52:01
Speaker 2: putting him on the spot and asking him your players quit.
52:05
Speaker 2: That's what I saw. What your response to that. Yeah,
52:09
Speaker 2: that's really treating him with kid gloves, right, And there
52:12
Speaker 2: were other episodes that people are just so predictable with
52:14
Speaker 2: that crap. It just drives me nuts.
52:16
Speaker 1: Anyway, Yeah, I'm getting PTSD of After a like post
52:20
Speaker 1: game and cameras are off, we usually do a separate
52:23
Speaker 1: like three to five to sometimes ten minute session just
52:26
Speaker 1: riders without the Valley cameras or the Fandel cameras, excuse me,
52:31
Speaker 1: And plenty of times or one of us will be
52:34
Speaker 1: called back in and the door will shut and it
52:36
Speaker 1: is a helpful conversation. Let me do for both of us,
52:40
Speaker 1: for both of us, So.
52:40
Speaker 2: It's a helpful conversation.
52:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, go ahead, I'm sorry found this. I know it
52:46
Speaker 1: was a long podcast. But with fishing fun together for
52:49
Speaker 1: a while and we you know, what else are we
52:51
Speaker 1: doing in the middle.
52:52
Speaker 2: Of we had it. We had a makeup for some
52:53
Speaker 2: lost time and lost brown. But I always enjoyed this season.
52:57
Speaker 2: I've really enjoyed doing this with you, Katie.
52:59
Speaker 1: Thank you, Bernie. It's been a lot of fun. Hopefully
53:01
Speaker 1: we have more opportunities to do this in the future.
53:04
Speaker 1: We'll be back next week with our weekly episode. At
53:07
Speaker 1: some point during the world series. I don't know, I don't,
53:09
Speaker 1: I'm there's nobody more day to day at the moment
53:11
Speaker 1: than I am. But for all of you watching, thanks
53:14
Speaker 1: as always. Bernie. Super glad we could get you back,
53:16
Speaker 1: and hopefully we'll talk again soon. Absolutely all right, thanks guys,
53:20
Speaker 1: to talk to you later.