Latest / The Touch of a Mustang / What It Takes to Give a Wild Horse a Future | Episode 41

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What It Takes to Give a Wild Horse a Future | Episode 41 · The Touch of a Mustang

• 0:00
  We were talking about compounding effects. 1 Mustang
• 0:04
  or two Mustangs that you take out of the system is a Mustang
• 0:07
  that a sanctuary doesn't have to worry about.
• 0:10
  It's a Mustang that doesn't get traded around, especially if
• 0:12
  you're committing to this financially and you are a person
• 0:15
  that has backup plans if something happens to you.
• 0:18
  I know that Melissa can back me up on this.
• 0:21
  The number of horses from the anarchy auction, the one that
• 0:25
  our guys came from that have ended up being rehomed because
• 0:29
  somebody got it in over their head or somebody didn't have the
• 0:32
  financial aid or somebody didn't have the backup because they
• 0:34
  wanted to save them is immense. And I know she'll have seen this
• 0:38
  as well as I the people that tend to take on as many horses
• 0:42
  as they can to quote, try and save them all.
• 0:44
  A lot of those horses end up later having to get taken to
• 0:47
  sanctuaries or find homes or end up being euthanized because
• 0:50
  they're too thin or they're now dangerous because the person
• 0:53
  took on too many. And so really doing your
• 0:55
  research and making a careful selection and taking one or two
• 0:59
  horses as a compounding effect and you just, you prevent a
• 1:03
  whole bunch of other bad scenarios from happening that
• 1:05
  people have to react to by being proactive.
• 1:07
  There are healers on this planet with the power to soften the
• 1:10
  suffering of mankind if they have remained in the recesses of
• 1:14
  the world, abused, discarded and labeled as trash.
• 1:18
  This is the touch of a Mustang. I am your host, Shalice Clough,
• 1:23
  and I'm here to tell the story of wild horses, Mustangs, and
• 1:27
  the humans who are discovering and sharing their gifts while
• 1:30
  working to protect their well-being and preserve their
• 1:33
  spirit so this divine power won't be lost.
• 1:37
  Join us on this quest with the Wild Mustang.
• 1:46
  Thank you guys all for being here today.
• 1:47
  We're going to have a great conversation about Mustangs,
• 1:50
  adopting Mustangs, all things Mustangs today.
• 1:54
  So this is a little bit different.
• 1:55
  We're going to do kind of a little panel discussion.
• 1:58
  And so to start with, I thought we could all introduce
• 2:02
  ourselves. I'm Shalisa, I'm the host, so
• 2:04
  everybody who's watched this before knows me.
• 2:06
  And then maybe we'll just go. Melissa, Sam and Holly introduce
• 2:09
  yourself and a little bit about yourself and your experience
• 2:11
  with Mustangs. Sure, I'm Melissa and I am the
• 2:15
  Mustang mom to Stargazer in Nora and they are pair wound Mustangs
• 2:20
  out of the Anarchy herd and they are just the love of my life.
• 2:24
  Right. I'm Samantha Cooper and I do
• 2:27
  equine behavior consulting, specifically taking different
• 2:30
  information I've gathered from basically being out in the wild
• 2:34
  with horses on our public range lands and then bringing that
• 2:37
  back to the general public so that they can learn how to best
• 2:41
  change their facilities and their engagement with their
• 2:44
  horses to better meet their basic needs.
• 2:46
  I have two adopted Mustangs that are from the same herd as
• 2:49
  Stargazer and Nora. It's.
• 2:51
  Fun. Cool.
• 2:53
  And then I'm Holly and I live in Oregon.
• 2:57
  I actually don't have experience really with Mustangs.
• 3:00
  I know a few through our sanctuary.
• 3:02
  I do work with horses and kids and adults with disabilities and
• 3:06
  I have an off track thoroughbred and a cute little Haflinger.
• 3:10
  And I love all things horses. I kind of, I grew up with
• 3:14
  horses. My cousin is actually Pat
• 3:16
  Pirelli and my grandma got me started with horses when I was
• 3:20
  young. And then as I grew and went to
• 3:23
  college and started a family, I kind of fell out of it for a
• 3:27
  season. And then in 2020 when my kids
• 3:31
  had nothing to do, we got back into horses and I ended up
• 3:35
  leaving my 10 year job in the modeling industry to become a
• 3:39
  ranch attendant and scoop poop. And I literally was like all I
• 3:43
  want to do is scoop poop. Just let me scoop poop.
• 3:46
  Yeah. And that is just continued to
• 3:49
  snowball from one thing to the next.
• 3:51
  And now I'm turning 40 this year and running a marathon in
• 3:56
  Wyoming, the run with the horses, which sparked all these
• 4:00
  ideas that just, again, keep snowballing.
• 4:02
  It's totally just a work of God that he's just kind of putting
• 4:06
  all these little pieces together.
• 4:07
  And here I am now on a podcast. That's right, converting you to
• 4:11
  the Mustangs and everybody else who's listening.
• 4:13
  Hopefully. Exactly.
• 4:14
  Well, it's really cool to have you guys all here.
• 4:16
  I'm excited. I think it's gonna be a lot of
• 4:18
  fun to just talk about Mustangs with four people who just love
• 4:22
  them and know how incredible they are.
• 4:24
  So we're gonna kind of hand it over to Holly.
• 4:26
  And what we're gonna do here is really just talk about some of
• 4:29
  the things people may not know about Mustangs.
• 4:32
  Things that might help people if you do have a Mustang or if
• 4:34
  you're thinking about getting a Mustang and just sharing all the
• 4:38
  knowledge and experiences and information that we have about
• 4:42
  successfully having Mustangs in your life in whatever form you
• 4:46
  might choose to have them. So Holly, I will send it your
• 4:49
  way to take it away. You know, a lot of people like
• 4:52
  myself don't have a lot of experience with Mustangs.
• 4:55
  I find even just in my family really people are very
• 4:58
  uneducated on the Mustangs. So just in a few words or few
• 5:02
  sentences, could you kind of paint a picture of the Mustang
• 5:05
  for the general listener? Yeah.
• 5:08
  So I want to highlight two major things about Mustangs.
• 5:11
  So they're extremely buried. So there's not really a way to
• 5:14
  compile all Mustangs into one from that kind of standpoint.
• 5:17
  But they do differ a lot from domestic horses.
• 5:19
  And two key points. One, most Mustangs have had
• 5:23
  their introduction to other horses out in a wild setting
• 5:26
  where it's not highly controlled.
• 5:28
  So they've had a lot of development of social skills
• 5:30
  that many domestic horses don't get, who may have a much more
• 5:33
  limited pool of horses they can interact with.
• 5:35
  And two, for most Mustangs, the first time you meet them, the
• 5:39
  first time you get your Mustang is going to be the first major
• 5:42
  interaction those horses have with domestic lifestyle and
• 5:45
  human beings. As most domestic horses have
• 5:47
  already had some amount of handling where Mustangs, they're
• 5:51
  going to have unique kind of mindsets and experiences.
• 5:53
  You may not find a domestic horse because of that difference
• 5:56
  in upbringing. Well, so for me, you know, you
• 5:59
  know, Mustangs are just very different than domestic horses.
• 6:03
  Just the experience that I'm having with them is so
• 6:06
  different. I've had domestic courses my
• 6:08
  entire life. And so Stargazer and Nora were
• 6:10
  the first Mustangs that I have ever adopted or, or work with.
• 6:13
  And I would just say that they are just so curious and cool.
• 6:17
  And it's really neat to have seen and known them in the wild
• 6:21
  and to have photographed them in the wild and just to watch their
• 6:24
  behavior and their interactions out there and see how that looks
• 6:27
  like in a domestic setting. So, so for me, you know, that's,
• 6:33
  that's like the little wild Mustang.
• 6:35
  I love it. That's great.
• 6:37
  And Melissa, that kind of goes into one of my questions I had
• 6:40
  for you as to like, so you knew them in the wild and then now
• 6:44
  you've adopted them and put them back together, which is so
• 6:47
  amazing and I love their story. What observations or like
• 6:50
  behavioral changes have you seen from that transition?
• 6:55
  Sure. So I mean, I was introduced to
• 6:57
  wild Mustangs as a photographer. So the first time I ever saw
• 7:01
  wild horses was actually out at Anarchy.
• 7:03
  And so I went out there on a, on a photography workshop and it
• 7:07
  was to say it was life changing is just an understatement
• 7:10
  because it, it truly really was. But I, you know, I remember
• 7:13
  watching and actually could hear like the horses coming.
• 7:16
  You could see the cloud of dust coming before you could even see
• 7:19
  horses, but they came all into water and it was just the most
• 7:22
  magical, incredible moment. So it just witnessed these
• 7:25
  horses with their how they communicated and how they
• 7:28
  interacted in their family bands.
• 7:30
  But you know, when they first came to water at the very end of
• 7:32
  the group was these three horses that I was really excited to
• 7:35
  see. One was his name was Old Man and
• 7:38
  he was like the legend of the Anarchy horses.
• 7:41
  He was, you know, well over 20 some years old.
• 7:44
  You know, who knows exactly how old he was.
• 7:46
  But then there was this handsome Pinto with him that was younger
• 7:49
  and cooler and it it was Stargazer.
• 7:51
  And honestly, he was is one of the first horses I ever
• 7:53
  photographed. And I just fell in love with him
• 7:56
  from the very start. And so I started learning about
• 7:59
  Mustangs through through this photography workshop and just
• 8:03
  learning about I didn't even know there were wild horses.
• 8:05
  I didn't know that they were in conflict and they were being
• 8:08
  rounded up. And so I just fell in love.
• 8:12
  And I would say that when the first roundup happened, which
• 8:17
  was in 2000 and that I was aware of, it was in 2019.
• 8:21
  And that's how Sam and I ended up connecting because we didn't
• 8:26
  know that there were some horses that were rounded up that we
• 8:30
  didn't expect to be rounded up. And so we got more and more
• 8:32
  involved in in the anarchy horses.
• 8:36
  And for me particularly, I started learning more about
• 8:39
  them, learning what the issues were.
• 8:42
  And so as time progressed, I became more more involved.
• 8:47
  But then the 2021 roundup occurred and, you know,
• 8:51
  Stargazer and Nora were a an item at that point.
• 8:54
  And it was really cool to kind of see Stargazer, you know, come
• 8:59
  across and find his first mayor. So this was the first mayor that
• 9:02
  he had in the wild. He was a bit of an older
• 9:04
  bachelor stallion. And he was really well
• 9:07
  photographed, well known, just because he was easy to spot.
• 9:11
  He has a brother out there that was a pretty cool looking as
• 9:15
  well. And so they, they were the Pinto
• 9:17
  brother. But I know I just like rambling
• 9:19
  on about them. I literally could talk about
• 9:21
  these guys forever. But when the roundup occurred, I
• 9:25
  just really wanted to make sure that Stargazer Nora stayed
• 9:27
  together. And so I tried to honestly get
• 9:30
  them to a sanctuary 1st and you know, that didn't work out.
• 9:35
  And so I adopted them both together and these are the first
• 9:38
  wow horses I ever had. So awesome.
• 9:41
  So and then I guess we could kind of segue into a question
• 9:44
  for CM, what could we really learn about herd behavior that
• 9:47
  might set us up for better transitions or just treatment
• 9:52
  for even people that are working in some realm of the Mustang
• 9:56
  world to help them transition from wild to adopted?
• 10:01
  I mean, the list there is immensely long.
• 10:03
  I think one of the big things that we can take away even if we
• 10:08
  can't observe wild horse behavior.
• 10:10
  This is one of the huge social strategies for horses.
• 10:12
  I think as we all know intrinsically, they are a herd
• 10:15
  animal and something that could be taken advantage of a lot more
• 10:19
  is that concept of, I don't know if you're familiar with it,
• 10:22
  I'll, I'll explain it. But social facilitation or
• 10:25
  basically, if you've got one animal that's doing a behavior
• 10:28
  that the other animals near it are more likely to try that
• 10:31
  behavior as well. So it's not quite like watching
• 10:34
  learning because we're not actually sure from a scientific
• 10:36
  standpoint of horses actually learned by observation in the
• 10:39
  same way we think of human beings learned by observation.
• 10:42
  But they definitely learn to that social facilitation process
• 10:45
  where like if a horse goes to try a food item, then another
• 10:48
  horse might go try and food that item as well, right?
• 10:51
  And so we can use that when we're working with these young
• 10:54
  fearful horses. Maybe we already have a domestic
• 10:56
  horse who loves scratches, right?
• 10:59
  And we can put in our Mustang with that domestic horse so that
• 11:02
  there's more and more scenarios set up for that horse where
• 11:05
  they're seeing another horse that's doing something.
• 11:07
  It also helps them be calmer and it ends up with a positive
• 11:11
  experience for them. Plus that also helps with horses
• 11:14
  to have another horse around. Of course, they are herd animals
• 11:17
  and so ensuring that as much as we can, we have horses in with
• 11:20
  other horses, as long as that's positive for them, you know,
• 11:23
  it's not a aggressive interaction.
• 11:25
  It really can go a huge long way to breach that divide between
• 11:30
  being removed from their herds in the wild and then ending up
• 11:32
  in a domestic setting where they have much less choices who they
• 11:35
  hang out with. Yeah, that's great.
• 11:37
  Makes sense too. I actually had a horse at work
• 11:40
  recently that's a domestic horse, but she's paired with
• 11:43
  another horse that they get along well.
• 11:45
  But I realized the other day that they don't groom each
• 11:48
  other. And she recently has become
• 11:50
  obsessed with me scratching her nose and her mouth.
• 11:53
  And she'll literally be in a lesson and then spot me and,
• 11:56
  like, try to walk over to me, like, you should scratch my
• 11:58
  nose. And I was like, oh, my gosh.
• 11:59
  It's because she's not grooming ever.
• 12:01
  So she's, like, lacking that interaction with her herd maid.
• 12:06
  Yeah. Yeah, I think it's really
• 12:08
  important to realize that the more we can put horses in an
• 12:11
  environment that is suited to them and how they would live
• 12:14
  versus how we as humans live or think that they should live,
• 12:17
  that it makes a huge difference. I was just talking with someone
• 12:20
  who works with off the track thoroughbreds and she was
• 12:23
  saying, you know, these horses are just stalled all the time
• 12:25
  where they're racing and then they come in domestic life.
• 12:28
  And so one of their requirements is like the horses need to have
• 12:31
  room to run. And because it is such a
• 12:32
  difference taking a thoroughbred out of a stall that's in a stall
• 12:35
  all the time, how they're going to behave versus taking one out
• 12:38
  of a pasture. So there are just so many
• 12:40
  different intricacies that's like they can fulfill a lot of
• 12:43
  their needs if we set them up for an environment that's meant
• 12:47
  for horses rather than thinking like they're a horse.
• 12:50
  They need everything I need because it is very different.
• 12:52
  Like we live in two different worlds.
• 12:54
  Even though, you know, sometimes we like to say like we're part
• 12:56
  of their, like we're really not. It's a different whole different
• 13:00
  dynamics and things that they have needs of that we don't.
• 13:04
  Yeah, yeah. And I can relate to that.
• 13:06
  With my thoroughbred, when I first got him, I really had a
• 13:09
  lot of ideas in my mind of like, OK, we're going to groom and
• 13:12
  we're going to lunch and we're going to do all these things.
• 13:14
  And now we work at such a level of just trying to make sure that
• 13:20
  he knows that I'm not there for any harm for him, that he can
• 13:24
  trust me, that I can trust him. And sometimes we don't make it
• 13:28
  through grooming because he doesn't really like it that
• 13:30
  much. But we've been practicing
• 13:32
  without a halter on so that he has a choice to engage with me.
• 13:36
  And now we'll end up having like 20 minute sessions where he just
• 13:38
  stands there and lets me, you know, brush his legs out and
• 13:42
  brush him a little bit. And once he's done, he's like,
• 13:44
  OK, that's enough. And that's good.
• 13:46
  But there is such that level of just or human way you were like,
• 13:51
  you're so dirty, I need to get the mud off of you.
• 13:53
  But he doesn't care, you know? Yeah, he enjoys it and he'd
• 13:57
  rather have the mud. And if I do manage to get it all
• 13:59
  off, he's putting it right back on.
• 14:02
  Yeah, that's really true. Do you have any other things to
• 14:05
  add to that, Sam? Like specific things where
• 14:07
  people can just maybe consider their setup and just the life
• 14:10
  their horse is basically going to live.
• 14:12
  That would maybe help it to make it easier when they do have
• 14:15
  human interactions because we're with them a relatively minimal
• 14:19
  amount of time compared to how much time they're just living
• 14:21
  life on their own. Yeah.
• 14:22
  I mean, as I said that the list is, is miles and miles long.
• 14:26
  There's so much we can do. And unfortunately, it's hard to
• 14:29
  give very specific answers to that that would apply to
• 14:32
  everybody because it depends so intensely on what is the funding
• 14:36
  available to you? What is the setup available to
• 14:38
  you? Yeah, the big three takeaways
• 14:41
  that are very commonly recommended by different
• 14:44
  behavior professionals, people that do behavior consulting,
• 14:46
  that's kind of their their bread and butter is of course,
• 14:49
  hopefully you've heard of it. And if not, then this is great.
• 14:51
  You'll hear it now. But the three FS friends forage
• 14:55
  freedom, we've kind of already talked a little bit about the
• 14:57
  the friends bit with social facilitation, but forage making
• 15:01
  sure they have something to chew on all the time, right?
• 15:04
  So some horses can't do necessarily 24/7 hay in the same
• 15:07
  way. But you can look at things like
• 15:08
  straw and others forage items to really make sure they've got
• 15:11
  something in their gut at all times.
• 15:12
  Because horses are spent almost every hour of their waking
• 15:15
  eating in wild settings. And so that can really help
• 15:19
  reduce spookiness and give them something to occupy the time
• 15:22
  rather than eating your wood or you know, whatever else you've
• 15:25
  got going on. And then space to move.
• 15:27
  A lot of times Mustangs are brought into really small pens,
• 15:31
  which is fine for working with them.
• 15:33
  But if you're thinking about getting a Mustang and you don't
• 15:36
  have a setup yet, really consider how can I give my horse
• 15:39
  more space to move when I'm not working with it and set it up so
• 15:42
  I can move them around as low stress as possible while they're
• 15:45
  still unhandled to the actual training area.
• 15:48
  And how that looks is going to differ from person to person,
• 15:50
  but you know, as much as we can, giving access to those things
• 15:54
  even while they're still in that training period is really
• 15:57
  important and will help the training go much faster.
• 15:59
  Yeah, that's a great point. I think everyone can't have just
• 16:02
  an ideal optimized, perfect setup.
• 16:05
  But there are probably always some little things that little
• 16:08
  changes you can make like, yeah, make the round pen a little
• 16:11
  closer. So it's a really easy transition
• 16:13
  if you're moving on from whether the corral to the round pen or
• 16:17
  different things like that. So yeah, I really like that.
• 16:19
  OK, So I would say for me, when I decided to jump into this, I
• 16:24
  obviously like researching and really diving into things and I
• 16:28
  felt really overwhelmed really fast.
• 16:30
  So with so many wild horses in holding facilities, I feel like
• 16:35
  some people might learn about this issue and be like, whoa,
• 16:38
  thousands and thousands of horses.
• 16:39
  What could I do? So really, how can one
• 16:42
  successful adoption truly make a difference to someone that may
• 16:46
  not be as you know, horse obsessed as like I am?
• 16:49
  Like I understand it, I get it, I want to take all of them, but
• 16:52
  how can that really make a difference in this giant issue?
• 16:57
  Yeah, I mean, the wild horse and borough issue is really
• 16:59
  overwhelming and I there's no easy answer and it's so layered
• 17:03
  and we could have an entire 5 podcast dedicated to the wild
• 17:08
  horse and borough issue. But I, I would say at least for,
• 17:12
  for me, you know, those two horses, you know, in my case,
• 17:16
  Stargazer and Nora, like I, I have to focus on them and know
• 17:19
  that I gave them the best life that I possibly could, that
• 17:23
  they're never going to be in the slaughter pipeline.
• 17:26
  They are going to have a forever home.
• 17:28
  And I will do everything I can to help them.
• 17:30
  And sometimes it feels like there's thousands and thousands
• 17:33
  of horses, you know, am I really making a difference?
• 17:35
  And I think for me, I am because, you know, Stargazer and
• 17:39
  Nora are, I want them to be ambassadors for that.
• 17:42
  You know, you can do this. Like I was terrified to adopt
• 17:46
  Mustangs. I've had horses my entire life.
• 17:49
  But I did my research, I put a great network around me.
• 17:53
  I was committed to them. I financially committed to them
• 17:56
  as well. And I think that's not something
• 17:58
  that we talked about a lot, that sure, things get tough, but like
• 18:02
  I've financially committed as well that I'm going to do the
• 18:05
  best I can for them. And so at the end of the day,
• 18:09
  they are ambassadors for other people, being able to adopt wild
• 18:13
  horses with knowledge and resources and quite frankly,
• 18:16
  friends. And for me, they've changed my
• 18:19
  life. I know that I'm helping them,
• 18:22
  but they've helped me so much more.
• 18:24
  I can never repay them for what they've done for me.
• 18:27
  So it is a big issue, but I see them and I know that I am making
• 18:32
  a difference. I love that.
• 18:33
  Yeah. And I think when you think that
• 18:35
  there's stories like Melissa's all over the country, it is one
• 18:38
  Mustang. It's not enough for all the
• 18:40
  Mustangs and holding, but I do think it's having a ripple
• 18:42
  effect. And I think you're a good
• 18:43
  example of that, Holly, where it's like you have just recently
• 18:46
  kind of discovered Mustangs and become intrigued by them.
• 18:49
  And I also agree, like Melissa said, if we can get one adopter
• 18:55
  that provides a committed home like that is one of the absolute
• 18:59
  most powerful things that can be done for a Mustang.
• 19:01
  No, it doesn't save them all, but every home that will commit
• 19:04
  to the Mustang they adopt will make a huge difference overall.
• 19:08
  Yeah, I completely agree. And you know, for me, you know,
• 19:11
  I, I worked in wild horse advocacy and really got to know
• 19:14
  the inside, the issue inside and out.
• 19:16
  And, you know, visited multiple ranges and saw lots of wild
• 19:21
  horses out on the range, went to roundups, went to holding
• 19:24
  facilities, you know, was, we attended in person adoptions,
• 19:29
  you know, had online auctions, in person auctions, you know,
• 19:32
  the whole gamut of the entire wild horse and Burrow issue, you
• 19:36
  know, went to training facilities.
• 19:38
  Like, you know, it, it's really, I felt like I walked into
• 19:42
  getting as much information as I could first hand and trying to
• 19:46
  take that and to apply to what I'm doing with them today.
• 19:49
  And, and I feel like that really helps me be a much more educated
• 19:53
  and well-rounded, you know, person.
• 19:55
  Like I understand their, I understand where they're coming
• 19:58
  from. I think from knowing their back
• 20:01
  story and their history and what they are they're up against.
• 20:04
  And I think that's really amazing that you were able to go
• 20:07
  and get that first hand knowledge.
• 20:09
  And that's kind of what I'm seeking from a lot of people is
• 20:12
  first hand experience because it's so emotionally charged.
• 20:16
  And social media gives us, you know, one outlet of something
• 20:20
  that's emotionally charged and then another one that's polar
• 20:22
  opposite. And you feel so torn, like, wait
• 20:25
  a minute, where, where am I supposed to feel here?
• 20:27
  What am I, you know, And ultimately, like for me and a
• 20:30
  lot of the people that I'm meeting through this process, we
• 20:33
  do care about the horse. Like that's the most important
• 20:36
  thing is the horse, right? And, and the issues, like you
• 20:38
  said, are so layered and so complex.
• 20:42
  So to to meet different people through this process that have
• 20:44
  first hand experience is really, really valuable.
• 20:47
  I appreciate it a lot hearing from.
• 20:49
  Yeah, and I know I'm learning every day about it.
• 20:51
  Like there's always something new to learn.
• 20:53
  There's different perspectives, there's ways to approach things
• 20:56
  differently. I mean, I didn't know anything
• 20:59
  about our positive before, quite frankly.
• 21:01
  So I met Sam and so, you know, so she was super helpful and,
• 21:05
  and guiding me in that direction and putting really strong
• 21:09
  trainers and horse gentlers around me that knew more than I
• 21:13
  did and saw more than I did and wanted to listen.
• 21:15
  And so for me, I'm it's a journey and I'm still on this
• 21:18
  journey and I don't think I have all the answers and I don't
• 21:22
  think I'll ever have all the answers.
• 21:23
  But I, I like to think that I keep seeking out as much
• 21:26
  information as possible with the goal of making sure that
• 21:29
  stargazer nor have the best chance of success.
• 21:31
  And, and for me, I think, I think I'm seeing that, no.
• 21:35
  That's huge, just that openness to continue learning.
• 21:38
  And I think the community is leaning more towards that.
• 21:40
  And it's really cool to see there's a lot of people who you
• 21:43
  know, are willing to learn what's best for the horses in
• 21:45
  whatever realm they're working in.
• 21:47
  Whether that, you know, that can go from sanctuary to like
• 21:50
  veteran programs to private ownership.
• 21:52
  But that people are really opening themselves kind of
• 21:55
  listening to the Mustang and learning from them and learning
• 21:58
  to other from others who have worked with them is pretty huge
• 22:01
  and cool. Do you have anything to add to
• 22:04
  that Sam about on the difference it makes 1 Mustang?
• 22:09
  Yeah. I mean, I think you guys have
• 22:10
  all touched on it and just things boil it into a summary.
• 22:14
  We're talking about compounding effects.
• 22:16
  You know, 1 Mustang or two Mustangs that you take out of
• 22:20
  the system is a Mustang that a sanctuary doesn't have to worry
• 22:23
  about. It's a Mustang that doesn't get
• 22:25
  traded around, especially if you're committing to this
• 22:27
  financially and you are a person that has backup plans if
• 22:30
  something happens to you. I know that Melissa can back me
• 22:34
  up on this. The number of horses from the
• 22:37
  Anarchy auction, the one that our guys came from that have
• 22:41
  ended up being rehomed because somebody got it in over their
• 22:44
  head or somebody didn't have the financial aid or somebody didn't
• 22:47
  have the backup because they wanted to save them is immense.
• 22:51
  And I know she'll have seen this as well as I the people that
• 22:55
  tend to take on as many horses as they can to quote, try and
• 22:58
  save them all. A lot of those horses end up
• 23:00
  later having to get taken to sanctuary or find homes or end
• 23:03
  up being euthanized because they're too thin or they're now
• 23:07
  dangerous because the person took on too many.
• 23:09
  And so really doing your research and making a careful
• 23:12
  selection and taking one or two horses as a compounding effect
• 23:16
  and you just, you prevent a whole bunch of other bad
• 23:18
  scenarios from happening that people have to react to by being
• 23:21
  proactive. 100% agree. And I think there's a lot of
• 23:25
  well-intentioned people that want to take and save as many
• 23:29
  wild horses as possible, but I don't think they think through
• 23:32
  like how expensive it is to feed them all through winter.
• 23:36
  This has been a long winter vet care.
• 23:39
  That's so it's, it's a lot. And so I think people have well,
• 23:42
  they're well intended, but it just doesn't always pan out that
• 23:46
  way. You know, for me, like, you
• 23:48
  know, having my 2, I mean, Stargazer is not a horse that I
• 23:53
  can ride. I'm never, I'll never be able to
• 23:55
  ride him. He's been injured.
• 23:57
  He is, I found things that he likes to do without tricks.
• 24:01
  And he actually he paints now. So he's a painter?
• 24:04
  Yeah, so cute. But, you know, I'm, I'm OK with
• 24:08
  that. I'm OK with that's, that's,
• 24:10
  that's what we're doing and we're still learning and we're
• 24:12
  still growing. But that's, that's what his life
• 24:14
  looks like. Nora, on the other hand, I mean,
• 24:16
  she would die if I like didn't do something with her.
• 24:19
  She's so like highly motivated, wants to learn and eager to
• 24:23
  please. And we're learning to jump and,
• 24:25
  you know, she's just so fun and cool and to do stuff with.
• 24:29
  But their plan is very different.
• 24:31
  So I had to take my vision of what I wanted to have happen and
• 24:36
  I had to say, what do you want to have happen and what is best
• 24:39
  for you and really adjust to that.
• 24:41
  And I think Sam can, you know you.
• 24:43
  Sam listens like I do too. Like, don't you think, Sam?
• 24:47
  Oh, yeah. I mean, if you if you get a
• 24:49
  horse and you have a specific plan in mind, they will throw a
• 24:51
  wrench in it and you'll end up doing something else.
• 24:53
  If you're paying attention. You know, some people will try
• 24:55
  and power through it and it probably will end well for them
• 24:58
  or they're always going to be struggling with their horses.
• 25:00
  But yeah, I mean, they're living, breathing creatures that
• 25:03
  have their own thoughts and opinions, their own experiences,
• 25:05
  some of which we didn't get to see or experience.
• 25:08
  And so I think having a Mustang is about setting aside our
• 25:12
  preconceptions about what they're going to be bought for
• 25:15
  and go, OK, I am taking on the care of this horse.
• 25:18
  What does this horse want out of this relationship?
• 25:22
  I, I think that commitment is so central because they are so easy
• 25:26
  to get into $125.00 you can bring a wild horse home, you
• 25:29
  know, 125 dollars, $1000 in return sometimes.
• 25:32
  So they are so accessible and then you see things where it
• 25:37
  looks like they're also really easy to train.
• 25:39
  And that may or may not be true, but, and I think we kind of
• 25:42
  touched on this when we were just discussing what we would
• 25:45
  want to bring out. But I think it's really
• 25:46
  important that you are able to set aside your vision of what
• 25:50
  this is going to be like and instead embrace what it is and
• 25:53
  be committed to it. I think is the other really key
• 25:56
  thing. Don't just go in thinking it's
• 25:58
  going to be some easy project because most likely my
• 26:01
  experience, it won't be easy, but it'll be so worthwhile and
• 26:04
  so extraordinary and you will learn and gain so much from it
• 26:07
  in your personal life. And so, yeah, if you can have
• 26:11
  that commitment and kind of set aside those preconceived
• 26:14
  notions, the timeline is something we talked about.
• 26:17
  It might be two days that you touch them.
• 26:18
  It might be 3 months until you touch them or until you put a
• 26:21
  saddle on or whatever you might want to do with them.
• 26:24
  And, you know, be OK with that and kind of enjoy that journey
• 26:27
  because it's a pretty cool journey to consider that you're
• 26:30
  like partnering with a wild horse and kind of joining your
• 26:33
  lives together. Yeah, I mean, whenever I adopted
• 26:36
  Stargazer Nora, I worked with Sam Van Fleet in the first
• 26:40
  couple months to help gentle them.
• 26:42
  And she's just so much more experienced and has done this so
• 26:45
  many times. And she she does compete in some
• 26:47
  of the makeovers. But what I like about her is
• 26:48
  that she she listens to the horse and if it doesn't make
• 26:52
  sense, she does, she doesn't do it.
• 26:53
  And she's pulled out of those this processes because it didn't
• 26:57
  make sense for that horse. But, you know, she helped me in
• 27:01
  the very beginning. And then I went and learned from
• 27:03
  her too. And so I think that was really,
• 27:05
  really helpful. And just how much, at least for
• 27:08
  me, in the beginning, I thought that I was listening and I
• 27:11
  really wasn't listening and how much I talked when I didn't.
• 27:15
  I used 10 cues when I just needed one.
• 27:17
  And, and so it was really a kind of a rewarding experience.
• 27:21
  But when I brought them home to my house for the first time, I
• 27:25
  mean, I called Sam, not Sam Van Fleet, but Sam on the call and
• 27:30
  crying and saying, I, I cannot do this.
• 27:32
  This is so scary. I'm so overwhelmed and I
• 27:36
  couldn't do it. And she's like, you can do this.
• 27:38
  You I know you've got this like, So what, you go slower.
• 27:42
  That's OK. And that was all the
• 27:44
  encouragement that I personally needed was just someone to go,
• 27:47
  hey, I believe in you. You can do it.
• 27:49
  You have a you know, you do your research, you have a network,
• 27:52
  you're committed. You're not going to be riding
• 27:54
  this horse as fast as you think. Like, you know what it shows
• 27:57
  online or what Instagram shows you that you can do.
• 28:01
  And here I am, you know, two years later and three years so
• 28:05
  later, I guess, and I'm having the time of my life with my
• 28:08
  little mare. She's she's so fun.
• 28:10
  And you know, actually this painting on the back here, this
• 28:12
  blue one that was stargazers first painting you ever did.
• 28:15
  So like, we're just accomplishing so much and the
• 28:17
  timeline just needs, I need to take myself out of it and let's
• 28:21
  just listen, quite frankly. So I'm so grateful to to all of
• 28:25
  this in my life. Yeah.
• 28:27
  Yeah, that support is huge. Yeah.
• 28:29
  Just having someone there to be like, it's OK, you're doing OK
• 28:32
  and just keep going. That's huge.
• 28:34
  And we were just talking about this, I think on Instagram just
• 28:37
  about I was just talking about this with a friend of mine that
• 28:39
  has a thoroughbred about just barn culture and how it can feel
• 28:43
  so overwhelming to be in a barn setting.
• 28:46
  And when I moved my horses to a friend that so graciously let me
• 28:50
  start boarding my horses there, and I didn't have that pressure
• 28:53
  from all of the different people who thought this is what you
• 28:56
  should be doing with your horse, our relationship changed
• 28:59
  drastically. But that's really sad because I
• 29:02
  look at like us talking today, what wonderful, like, you know,
• 29:06
  knowledge that you're sharing with me.
• 29:08
  And if we could build such a better support system for
• 29:11
  people, like how incredible could that be for all of these
• 29:14
  horses, Mustang or not, To just be able to know that like we
• 29:18
  have Sam, we have Melissa, we have Shalise, we have all these
• 29:21
  people we can connect with to give us guidance and support on
• 29:24
  whatever our journey looks like. So as this like marathon
• 29:28
  training and process has started to unfold, like that's kind of
• 29:31
  what I'm hoping will happen for other people too, is because I'm
• 29:35
  connecting with so many people. And one of the people that
• 29:37
  connected me with Shalise is a friend of mine named Matson, and
• 29:41
  he runs at East Horsemanship. And they are working with
• 29:44
  veterans and service members and using Mustangs to work through
• 29:47
  that process. And we actually met when we were
• 29:50
  being certified to teach through CHA writers with disabilities.
• 29:54
  And then two years later, we are now connected through Mustangs,
• 29:58
  which is, I mean, we came from very different worlds and I
• 30:01
  never thought this is where we would be.
• 30:02
  And now we're connected through Mustangs and trying to support
• 30:05
  one another. And I just think there's so much
• 30:07
  that we could offer one another if we could just set aside that,
• 30:11
  you know, this is what it should look like.
• 30:14
  You know, and for for me, I have a a domestic horse.
• 30:18
  Ruben is his name and Sam has helped me out so much with him
• 30:22
  because how he interacts with the Mustangs is so very
• 30:25
  different than how the Mustangs interact with each other or with
• 30:29
  him. It's literally like 2 languages
• 30:31
  they're trying to communicate. So something as simple as like
• 30:34
  having two Mustangs and a domestic course putting them all
• 30:36
  together and what does that look like?
• 30:38
  Just trying to understand both viewpoints has been really
• 30:42
  helpful. I know Sam is like literally
• 30:45
  I've sent her videos. I'm like what is happening here?
• 30:48
  Please interpret this because I don't know my is he weird?
• 30:51
  What is going on with my domestic horse?
• 30:53
  Is that what we do? We just send Sam videos and say
• 30:56
  what's going on? Do you do that with my teenagers
• 31:00
  too? I'll send you videos of my
• 31:01
  teenagers and see what. I'm not qualified to talk about
• 31:06
  human children just. Horse that's awesome.
• 31:08
  I love that. So what do you think?
• 31:10
  Let's see what if someone's, you know, great great grandma wants
• 31:15
  to participate in supporting Mustangs.
• 31:16
  She sees a here's a podcast. She sees something on Instagram
• 31:20
  and she's all in. But she's definitely not in any
• 31:22
  position to adopt A Mustang at this stage in her life.
• 31:25
  So how can she support? As with all of these questions,
• 31:29
  depends on what you've got available to you.
• 31:31
  I mean, one of the classic answers, of course, is financial
• 31:34
  support is great. If you've got somebody in your
• 31:36
  family that, you know, that wants to get involved with
• 31:39
  Mustangs, help support them financially there.
• 31:41
  If you know of some people that you trust that have sanctuaries
• 31:44
  that they really like, that they've gone and visited, do
• 31:46
  your homework, you know, make sure you're supporting what you
• 31:48
  want to support. But yeah, financial stuff is
• 31:50
  great always. But one of the things people
• 31:52
  don't always think about that can be a possibility is if you
• 31:56
  know, you're an older person but you have acreage, you can
• 31:59
  possibly open up that acreage to someone who wants to start
• 32:02
  working with Mustangs. Now, of course, cover your bases
• 32:04
  legally. You know, we really want to take
• 32:06
  care of the process, but that's an excellent way that, you know,
• 32:09
  you could have the other person care for it and the other person
• 32:11
  puts all the money into it. You've just offered your
• 32:13
  property as a way for somebody who maybe doesn't have the
• 32:16
  ability to buy their own property right now to get
• 32:18
  started. So those are two big ones that I
• 32:20
  can think of. And Melissa, you have some
• 32:22
  others. Hey always.
• 32:25
  Hey, you can buy hay Bale. For anybody who has a Mustang,
• 32:29
  they will take it. Yep.
• 32:30
  I will take a hay Bale. You can put my house with a hay
• 32:33
  Bale. And I would love you as many as
• 32:34
  you want. We will welcome them.
• 32:36
  No, but I, I mean, joking aside, you know, just really support.
• 32:40
  I mean, I can't tell you how much at least in my little
• 32:42
  circle of friends that just listening and just telling me I
• 32:47
  can do it. And just knowing that and just
• 32:50
  celebrating my wins and like listening to my like my
• 32:53
  uncertainties has been really, really helpful.
• 32:56
  So I mean, emotional support is is big too.
• 33:00
  And you know, I love when people love to listen to me talk about
• 33:04
  this horses. So you know, grandmas love to
• 33:06
  chat on the phone. So that's always helpful to.
• 33:08
  Yeah, I think those are great. I love that.
• 33:10
  Hey, I thought you were saying like, hey, like you were
• 33:12
  starting a conversation. No, hey, I definitely actually.
• 33:16
  That's what we're looking. For Yeah, I feel that.
• 33:19
  Yeah, we'll take all the hay. Yeah.
• 33:22
  Actually, horses are very similar to teenagers.
• 33:24
  They never stop eating. Yeah.
• 33:27
  Very accurate. How about we didn't really touch
• 33:30
  too much on this, but any experience you've had with the
• 33:33
  adoption process, I know obviously Melissa, you've jumped
• 33:37
  into that, but just whatever you want to share, you're
• 33:41
  comfortable sharing with with the adoption process or auction
• 33:44
  or you know, in person online. I don't know if Sam, if you want
• 33:48
  to go first or like pretty brutal.
• 33:51
  A little wild. It's it's a that's a tough one.
• 33:54
  I have a personal opinion here and honestly I don't think this
• 33:57
  applies to everyone. So anyone listening take this
• 34:00
  with salt. This doesn't mean you have to do
• 34:01
  it this way, but I personally much prefer going in person.
• 34:06
  It's cheaper, you don't have to rely on your Internet crashing,
• 34:09
  and you get to actually look at the horse and connect with it.
• 34:13
  Now, that's not feasible for everybody and of course, the
• 34:15
  online auctions are a possibility.
• 34:18
  If you do go right that route, you need to have your
• 34:20
  application in way sooner than the actual event happens because
• 34:24
  government is usually slow and they're often slow to approve
• 34:27
  things. They may have in some cases have
• 34:29
  to actually come to your facility to look at things
• 34:32
  pretty rarely when you're doing the Internet option, but for
• 34:34
  some people it might. So just plan way in advance of
• 34:37
  when you actually want to bring a horse home for that process,
• 34:41
  because it takes a while and you're going to spend more on
• 34:45
  the online auction. If you're a first time Mustang
• 34:48
  owner and you know you you haven't, you don't want to
• 34:52
  really start the process. There's also a lot of different
• 34:55
  functions that are available around the country.
• 34:57
  And again there I'd recommend going in person and watching it
• 35:00
  first and talking to people who have gotten horses from that
• 35:03
  event, because one one of the other danger things that will
• 35:06
  happen to people when they're first getting into Mustangs is
• 35:08
  they try and do everything right.
• 35:10
  They get a trainer in mind, they get a horse from a trainer, and
• 35:14
  then what the horse they end up with is actually not the horse
• 35:17
  that they were promised because, you know, either they weren't
• 35:20
  sure actually it was going to be given to them or the training in
• 35:23
  question wasn't what it was advertised as.
• 35:25
  It happens a lot. So really thoroughly doing your
• 35:28
  research before you go, it will save you a lot of heartache in
• 35:31
  the long run and so on and so forth.
• 35:34
  So yeah, those are my touch home points.
• 35:36
  But yeah, I really vastly prefer in person towards getting
• 35:38
  anything from online. I think it's just a much better
• 35:41
  way to do it. But some people have had success
• 35:43
  the other way, so. I think adding to that is like
• 35:45
  be prepared for uncertainty. If you're doing the online
• 35:48
  adoption, you might think you have a horse, you might lose it,
• 35:51
  you might get your application and you might not.
• 35:52
  And then you might think you went and like Sam said, saw this
• 35:56
  horse in person, met the trainer and you bring it home and it's a
• 35:58
  different horse than what you expected.
• 36:00
  That doesn't mean that it's wrong for you.
• 36:02
  I've talked to a lot of people who it's almost like their
• 36:05
  Mustang found them because it gave them some things that they
• 36:08
  needed to learn, some things they need to do.
• 36:10
  That is certainly true for me. My vision of owning a Mustang is
• 36:14
  not at all how it has played out.
• 36:16
  But in my opinion, it's been a lot better.
• 36:19
  But I think, you know, we can feel really insecure and scared
• 36:22
  of the uncertainty, or we can really embrace it.
• 36:25
  Like, maybe this is different than I imagined it, but maybe
• 36:28
  it's going to be better. But if you get a Mustang, it's
• 36:30
  probably not going to follow your vision.
• 36:32
  So just be OK with that uncertainty.
• 36:35
  Something comes up and it's different than you thought.
• 36:38
  Like that's OK, you know, reach out to new people, reach out to
• 36:41
  someone for support. I think any of us, if someone
• 36:44
  messaged us about a Mustang, we would be more than happy to help
• 36:47
  send you to resources like do anything to support a successful
• 36:51
  adoption. And I know that we're not the
• 36:53
  only ones out there, that there are lots of people who just love
• 36:55
  the Mustang, know how great they are.
• 36:57
  And so even if it comes that it's not exactly what you
• 37:01
  expected or you're disappointed you didn't get the horse like
• 37:03
  that doesn't mean it's not meant for you and that it's not going
• 37:06
  to be an incredible experience if you are committed to it and
• 37:08
  stick with it and dedicated to it.
• 37:10
  Our auction for the Anarchy horses was, you know, there was
• 37:13
  a lot of attention around it because the herd is so well
• 37:16
  known. There was, I mean, the Internet,
• 37:18
  it was an Internet auction. It was a week long process.
• 37:20
  I mean, when you bid on a horse, you don't actually have to buy
• 37:23
  the horse if you're the winning bidder.
• 37:25
  I mean, there's just a lot of gaming of the system that
• 37:28
  happens. It's it's really, it's really a
• 37:30
  scary place. And and so the whole auction
• 37:34
  process was unnecessarily dramatic.
• 37:37
  I mean, I remember seeing Stargazer and it's true
• 37:40
  Stargazer and it was my images that someone had taken had
• 37:44
  stolen from me and was, was like advertising him and all these
• 37:47
  Mustang hubs to like increase and inflate pricing on him
• 37:52
  because they thought he was going to go to a sanctuary.
• 37:54
  But meanwhile, he was I was the, you know, trying to adopt them
• 37:57
  and the fact that I was able to keep them together is just
• 38:00
  honestly, honestly a miracle. But that it's it's a kind of an
• 38:06
  ugly place on that online auction, in my opinion.
• 38:08
  I mean, I think for me as a first time Mustang owner, and I
• 38:12
  shouldn't say owner, I like to think of myself more of a
• 38:14
  guardian, but I probably would not dive head 1st and do do it
• 38:18
  how I did it. I would find a trainer that IA
• 38:21
  gentler that I really trusted and admired and was really
• 38:25
  behind on their processes. And I would I would buy directly
• 38:29
  from them like a horse that, you know, like that, like Sam Van
• 38:33
  Fleet was like gentling. I would go directly to her and I
• 38:36
  would, you know, get a trained horse.
• 38:39
  I would not do how I would not do what I did.
• 38:42
  Actually, I adopted them together because I knew them in
• 38:45
  the wild and I loved them in the wild and wanted to keep them
• 38:47
  together. But I, it was, it was a hard, I
• 38:50
  mean, I'm glad that I did it, but it was, it's a hard road and
• 38:55
  I'm not a professional at it. And it's, I've had it, you know,
• 38:59
  I've used, you know, worked with trainers still to this day to,
• 39:03
  to get me where I am. And I'm, I'm fortunate for that,
• 39:06
  But I also know that that's not feasible for everybody.
• 39:09
  So, you know, the auction process can be a really scary,
• 39:12
  scary place. But I, I agree with Sam that go
• 39:15
  in person and know them and, and see them and just don't buy them
• 39:18
  because they look prettier. They're tall.
• 39:20
  That's that's not necessarily. You're not setting yourself or
• 39:24
  them up for success sometimes. Yeah, well, and it's so hard to
• 39:28
  see them really on the online auction, you know, like you're
• 39:33
  lucky if you get a good picture or a video that gives you an
• 39:37
  idea of them in general because they're usually just, at least
• 39:39
  what I've seen, they're just frantically running around so.
• 39:43
  It's hard. To tell, yeah, it's hard to
• 39:45
  really tell, like what? What you're actually getting.
• 39:49
  Yeah, and I mean, if it's a mayor, it's very likely she's
• 39:51
  pregnant. I mean, Nora was pregnant
• 39:53
  whenever I adopted her. I suspected as much.
• 39:56
  And, you know, she ended up losing the baby.
• 39:59
  But, you know, the mayor's are most likely pregnant.
• 40:01
  So, you know, it's just, it can be, it's hard to know.
• 40:04
  I mean, Sam and I are fortunate that we knew our horses in the
• 40:08
  wild and knew their families and knew their behaviors.
• 40:12
  And we really took a very educated guess to know that
• 40:16
  store gazer, for example, was going to be completely.
• 40:19
  Different than Nora because he was a bachelor most of his life.
• 40:22
  He was OK with being by himself. He liked being by himself.
• 40:25
  He, you know, was confident in these areas but was unconfident
• 40:30
  in the other areas. So I had a lot of information
• 40:32
  walking into this with them. I will say though, that's worked
• 40:36
  against me as well because knowing them in the wild, like I
• 40:40
  have pictures of stargies are brutally like fighting with
• 40:44
  another horse. And like that horse is not the
• 40:47
  horse that's in my pasture. Like he's not.
• 40:49
  But in my mind, like, you know, I, I'm like, I, I have a picture
• 40:53
  of him bloodied with scars all over him and he's the puppy,
• 40:56
  like he's a puppy at this point, but that is not, that's not who
• 41:00
  he is at this point. And so I know that for me, I've
• 41:03
  found that I can be a bit, I second guess myself or I get a
• 41:07
  little bit nervous or I count them out thinking, oh, they're
• 41:10
  going to be not OK with this. Because, you know, I knew them
• 41:13
  in the wild and this is how they looked.
• 41:15
  And they were a wild Mustang really.
• 41:17
  They're, you know, like, for example, Nora's like, oh, like
• 41:21
  you want me to do this for the first time?
• 41:23
  OK, cool. Like I'll do it.
• 41:24
  And I think she's not. And so it can be good and bad
• 41:29
  knowing them in the wild, but. Yeah.
• 41:31
  You know it's different. Yeah, that's cool.
• 41:34
  And that's cool to hear about, like how he was in the wild
• 41:37
  versus now how he is with you more of a puppy.
• 41:40
  Dog, I love that he's different. Yeah.
• 41:44
  That's awesome. I love that.
• 41:47
  One of the things that I'm finding interesting and I've
• 41:49
  just kind of in the last week really started to dive in.
• 41:52
  So the the marathon that I'm doing is the whole poll is to
• 41:56
  bring people to see the wild horses, right?
• 41:58
  And it's run with the horses and it's the White Mountain HMA.
• 42:03
  And they just laughed. August days before this
• 42:07
  marathon, they did a huge roundup.
• 42:09
  And so I actually messaged the marathon.
• 42:11
  I'm still waiting to hear back, but I'm like, are there even any
• 42:15
  wild horses there right now for this marathon that you're
• 42:18
  pushing for to see the wild horses?
• 42:21
  Like I don't know cuz they rounded up I think 586 somewhere
• 42:25
  around there 589 give or take and none have been returned as
• 42:29
  at least according to updated stats and sites.
• 42:34
  I just, yeah, such a layered issue.
• 42:36
  And I think it's, I think it's interesting all the different
• 42:39
  avenues and ways that, you know, I mean, most things come down to
• 42:43
  the dollar, right? Everything comes down to the
• 42:45
  dollar and in the society we're living in.
• 42:48
  And so I think it's interesting when you start peeling back all
• 42:50
  the layers and then you're like, oh, OK, I see this and I see
• 42:53
  this and I see this. And of course, we could go on
• 42:55
  for hours and hours on on auctions and all of those
• 42:59
  topics. But yeah, it's just, it's been
• 43:02
  quite a interesting Rd. I have piles of notebooks on my
• 43:05
  table and my family. What are you doing?
• 43:07
  I'm like, don't touch any of this stuff.
• 43:09
  This is all my Mustang stuff. Leave it alone.
• 43:11
  Yeah. The awareness, I was just going
• 43:15
  to say like the awareness comes with a bit of a double edged
• 43:17
  sword too. So we, you know, we were always
• 43:20
  so excited to have everyone know all about the anarchy horses and
• 43:23
  come visit them and they're right along the pony Express.
• 43:26
  But you know, the flip side of that, and I know some of the
• 43:28
  other herds like like Corolla out and like, which is in North
• 43:34
  Carolina, you know, people get too close.
• 43:36
  They, they take the wildness out of the horses.
• 43:38
  They don't run. They when they see you, they're
• 43:40
  not as afraid. You know, people try to feed
• 43:42
  them. So it's there's a there's a
• 43:46
  trade off there too. Sure, sure.
• 43:49
  Yep. And, and that makes a lot of
• 43:51
  sense. I used to really enjoy a lot of
• 43:54
  events like rodeos and things like that and until I started
• 43:57
  working at our sanctuary and helping out with their social
• 44:00
  media. And I'm just like, well, I just,
• 44:02
  I look at now all these horses and I think like, where are you
• 44:04
  going after this? You know?
• 44:06
  And so opening your eyes and having awareness can definitely
• 44:10
  change some things for you. Not that it's a bad thing.
• 44:14
  It's just then you're like, oh, sometimes I kind of liked it
• 44:16
  when my eyes were closed. Well, I mean, I love, I really
• 44:20
  love learning, Obviously, I love research and diving into things.
• 44:24
  So if we were to start a book club, what book would you
• 44:27
  recommend that I read? I mean, I think for the wild
• 44:30
  horse issue, I mean, I'm, I think the wild horse country is
• 44:34
  is by David Phillips. I think that is a required
• 44:37
  reading for Mustangs, Mustang owners because it talks about
• 44:41
  the issue, talks about this history of it.
• 44:43
  It won a Pulitzer Prize that he's he writes for the New York
• 44:46
  Times and I think that that's a pretty interesting book that
• 44:49
  talks about the wild horse and Burrow issue.
• 44:52
  So that that's a top read for me, I think.
• 44:56
  Yeah. I mean, I guess it depends on
• 44:57
  whether we want more surrounded about the issue or whether we
• 45:01
  want more like wild horse behavior.
• 45:03
  Specific. Anything whatever comes to mind.
• 45:05
  This one is apparently really good.
• 45:07
  I haven't read it myself but it has come recommended to me by a
• 45:10
  few friends and family who are all fairly science minded.
• 45:13
  They're like really into like balanced talk on the issue.
• 45:15
  So this one's one to check out. Like I said, I haven't read it
• 45:18
  yet but have had it recommended to me.
• 45:20
  So that's Wild Horses of the West for people who are just
• 45:23
  listening. For general horse behavior, this
• 45:26
  one's really good. It's by Lucy Rees, and it's a
• 45:30
  Horses and company. It's a really good sort of it
• 45:32
  moves away from the concepts of like alpha mare and alpha
• 45:36
  stallion and like dominance that typically have dominated the
• 45:40
  horse world, and it's a pretty good look at a way of reframing
• 45:44
  how we see horses in the wild. She's pretty good.
• 45:46
  She's seen a bunch of horses all across the world in wild
• 45:49
  settings, and so she's got a great basis to start from.
• 45:52
  Not everything's perfect. They are not in every book, but
• 45:55
  that's a really good one for all horse owners to look at.
• 45:57
  And then this is if you're a nerd.
• 45:59
  So it's by George H Waring and it's horse behavior.
• 46:03
  This one's the second edition. There may be some more recent
• 46:06
  ones. It's a little out of date.
• 46:07
  It was first published in 1983. But it's like just a big fat
• 46:11
  overview of horse behavior. And it goes into wild behaviors
• 46:16
  and more domestic behaviors and how they differ.
• 46:18
  And it's just it's really good. It's got a lot of scientific
• 46:20
  articles that are referenced in it.
• 46:22
  And so if you're really nerdy and you really want the deep
• 46:24
  live and you're willing to do more research on top of it,
• 46:27
  that's a great reference. That's awesome and I haven't
• 46:30
  read any of those so I can add those to my stack of half read
• 46:35
  books and get to a. Million more, but those are the
• 46:38
  three that I'm gonna present for.
• 46:39
  The top three. Yeah, those are the top three
• 46:41
  for at this moment. I love hearing those.
• 46:44
  That's awesome. I love that.
• 46:46
  I had another question that just kind of came to me.
• 46:48
  So we use social media so much and it's fantastic.
• 46:52
  But I think sometimes for awareness, for raising funds for
• 46:56
  rescues, for whatever your organization is, it can limit
• 46:59
  your kind of thinking as to how to get the word out.
• 47:03
  What are some things that you do maybe to touch in your community
• 47:07
  or to touch that aren't just social media driven?
• 47:09
  Because I feel like people hit a block and they're like, well, I
• 47:11
  didn't get likes and I didn't get get donations this way.
• 47:14
  What else can I do? But we did fundraise and do
• 47:16
  things like that before social media.
• 47:19
  Yeah, well, I mean, I can speak for me.
• 47:22
  You know, I'm known in my neighborhood as Mustang Melissa,
• 47:25
  which is hilarious. That's awesome.
• 47:28
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 47:29
  So, but you know, Sonora is, you know, we're training in like in
• 47:34
  in a, you know, for dressage and we're learning to jump.
• 47:37
  And so we are a part of like a hunt and saddle club.
• 47:40
  There's no hunting or any of the nothing of the source.
• 47:44
  You know, we just, I'm totally not for that, by the way.
• 47:47
  But you know, so she's showing up where these big fancy warm
• 47:51
  bloods and these big fancy off the track thoroughbreds and, you
• 47:55
  know, these big horses. And here's a little Nora coming
• 47:58
  in, my little Mustang mare and she's doing intro test B, this,
• 48:02
  you know, or intro test A, you know.
• 48:03
  Yeah. So I mean, you know, we're
• 48:07
  representing and we're just saying, hey, like Mustangs can
• 48:10
  do these things too. And you know, I'm not trying to
• 48:14
  do more, I'm just trying to have a, you know, just we just have
• 48:18
  some goals that we're trying to meet and if we get them, that's
• 48:20
  great. But but that's, that's what
• 48:22
  we're doing. And I know for me, we've we've
• 48:24
  raised a lot of awareness about Mustangs, especially on the East
• 48:27
  Coast. I don't think people know a lot
• 48:28
  about the issues in the West or if they think of Mustangs, they
• 48:32
  think of the Outer Banks horses, which are awesome by the way,
• 48:35
  but they have a little bit different of issue.
• 48:38
  It's not as contentious with those horses, but I think just
• 48:41
  representing personally. Yeah, that's great.
• 48:45
  What about you, Sam? Yeah, so I tend to be more on
• 48:48
  the, you know, behavior science sort of thing.
• 48:50
  So I don't know if how many this people this will apply to, but I
• 48:53
  do a lot of going to like a Community College to talk or
• 48:57
  going to a training center to talk.
• 49:00
  And so it's not quite like a clinic set up, although you
• 49:02
  could do that, but it's more kind of like having a direct
• 49:05
  outreach or it's like, I have this knowledge.
• 49:07
  I are you guys interested in having me come share this
• 49:10
  knowledge with you? And I guess in that similar
• 49:13
  token, it really is about identifying your skill set and
• 49:17
  your strength. Like, you know, what kind of
• 49:18
  thing has you be passionate? What kind of thing do you want
• 49:21
  to share and then identifying something near you that fits
• 49:24
  with that role. So if like for Melissa, she is
• 49:27
  passionate about, you know, getting Nora writing and going
• 49:29
  out and showing what Mustangs can do.
• 49:32
  So entering in a local show is perfect, right?
• 49:35
  And then she can reach out and talk to people in that process.
• 49:37
  For me, since I attended in more of horse behavior type stuff,
• 49:41
  going to talks is great. For somebody else.
• 49:43
  Maybe they like briar horses and maybe they want to paint briar
• 49:46
  horses and so maybe they can paint a specific Mustang and go
• 49:49
  talk about that Mustang in an event.
• 49:50
  And so there's just a huge swath of things that could fit that.
• 49:53
  But I think, yeah, identifying what you're passionate about and
• 49:56
  what you are skilled in to share and then finding things near you
• 50:00
  that fit that Ave. and going to share that.
• 50:03
  And my, my son's girlfriend just painted me some horses, my
• 50:07
  horses, and I convinced her to paint one of the horses that I'm
• 50:10
  supporting from Rescue Ranchito and we're going to use it for a
• 50:13
  fundraiser. So that's right, right on point.
• 50:16
  I was like, oh, if you could do one of these, we could totally
• 50:18
  do a fun fundraiser with this cute horse.
• 50:21
  And they're, so she's so good at it.
• 50:22
  They're really cool. That's awesome.
• 50:25
  I want you to know that in my like in my like dreamscape of
• 50:28
  things I want to have have in my universe, like I want Stargazer
• 50:31
  in order to be briar horses. I want them to be a couple.
• 50:34
  And so I'm putting into the universe that to have that
• 50:37
  happen. But I would that I that is like
• 50:40
  my top dream to have that happen.
• 50:42
  Yeah, then be seems. Like a doable dream.
• 50:45
  I feel like that happen, yeah. Yeah, we're putting it out there
• 50:49
  again. I was gonna say the same thing.
• 50:50
  Melissa wants briar horses. Like we are gonna make this
• 50:54
  happen somehow. Get Briar.
• 50:55
  Briar come through for us, but. That's so fun.
• 50:59
  I think. I think too though, just
• 51:01
  whenever we use our own providers and maybe from a
• 51:05
  behavioral perspective, like maybe Sam can chime on in on
• 51:08
  this, but even when we're working with like my local
• 51:10
  Ferrier, my vet, my chiropractor, like what I found
• 51:13
  is they say, Oh my God, you have a Mustang and they get a little
• 51:16
  nervous, but then showing them like, Hey, there's a different
• 51:19
  way. And and mine, my horses aren't
• 51:22
  scary and they're cool and they're just inexperienced and,
• 51:25
  and I think that is also being in touch with our community too.
• 51:29
  So I know Sam has had some great relationships with her her her
• 51:33
  network too through. That yeah, absolutely.
• 51:37
  I mean that's huge. Just interfacing with your
• 51:39
  veterinarians and farriers, etcetera is is really big
• 51:43
  because a lot of people do they have that sort of knee jerk
• 51:45
  reaction though Mustangs are a problem.
• 51:48
  And so even if you have a Mustang, that's a little more
• 51:51
  difficult just talking with them and talking them through the
• 51:53
  process. I mean, a lot of, I think fear
• 51:55
  of Mustangs come from not understanding them.
• 51:57
  So as an example, for whatever reason, my particular Mustang
• 52:02
  has issues about this face, right?
• 52:05
  And most people when they first greet a horse, they reach their
• 52:09
  hand out towards their face to touch their face, right?
• 52:11
  We, we do this automatically. And so the first time that I had
• 52:15
  a specific farrier out, I had forgotten to mention that.
• 52:19
  And she reached out, of course, to touch the horse's face and we
• 52:21
  had an event, but it ended up OK.
• 52:24
  But that's the thing that gets a lot of veterinarians and
• 52:26
  farriers off guard. So if you think about, OK, how
• 52:28
  is this going to be different for them?
• 52:29
  How can I, I prepare my vet and my Ferrier to approach my horse
• 52:32
  the best way? How can I set them up for
• 52:34
  success? Then it becomes so much less
• 52:35
  scary for them. And then they can go, oh,
• 52:37
  Mustangs are actually great. We're just not quite approaching
• 52:40
  it the right way. And that sets them up for
• 52:42
  success later down the line. And then they might mention your
• 52:44
  name to somebody else. They'd be like, oh, you've got a
• 52:46
  Mustang, I've got a client who has a Mustang.
• 52:48
  And this is kind of the things they've been doing.
• 52:49
  Maybe you should reach out. So yeah, it's networking is
• 52:53
  awesome. So communication.
• 52:55
  Communication's important. Well, we've heard that before.
• 52:59
  And yeah. And networking and getting out
• 53:02
  there and being seen. I love that.
• 53:05
  Yeah, I think it's really cool. I know my vet is, you know, in
• 53:08
  through my farrier. I think I know every Mustang
• 53:10
  like the tri-state area at this point.
• 53:12
  So they're like, oh, you need to know this person.
• 53:15
  And it's like we're in this little cute Mustang club, which
• 53:17
  I, which I love, but yeah, but it's cool whenever you get to
• 53:20
  see like Mustangs just show how different they can be.
• 53:24
  Like, for example, my mine are fine being separated and by
• 53:27
  themselves. And so because they, I don't
• 53:31
  know, they're they're OK with that.
• 53:33
  They're not like Ruben, my domestic.
• 53:35
  He like loses his mind if someone leaves him in the stall
• 53:39
  and Sam you know huge plug for Sam and her skills here and her
• 53:42
  behavioral like you know the things that she does to help
• 53:45
  with this significantly help me with Reuben separation anxiety
• 53:49
  and he's a 20 some year old domestic horse.
• 53:51
  I thought this would never change and I've done some
• 53:54
  behavioral things that have modified just a mod, a couple
• 53:58
  few modifications and it significantly helped him.
• 54:01
  But you know, the Mustangs has no issues and my vet is always
• 54:04
  like, you know, so surprised. She's like, you don't need to
• 54:06
  leave someone in here while you're while, you know, they're
• 54:09
  waiting to get their feet done. I'm like, or, you know, for me
• 54:12
  to check them, like no, like they're they're totally cool by
• 54:15
  themselves. They don't they know that the
• 54:17
  horses right outside they'll be OK.
• 54:18
  But Ruben, on the other hand, prior to some of Sam's like a
• 54:22
  suggestions would have literally run me over to get out to go see
• 54:26
  the other horses. So it's kind of neat.
• 54:29
  Yeah. The plug for Sam.
• 54:33
  Yay, Sam. I know I was thinking of some
• 54:36
  horses that I'll ask Sam some questions about later.
• 54:39
  That's awesome. I did want to share that just
• 54:42
  through this process, I've kind of connected with, I mentioned
• 54:46
  them once before Rescue Ranchito and at East Horsemanship and I
• 54:50
  what I really like about both of them is they're very, they're
• 54:54
  very passionate about what they do.
• 54:55
  They're very passionate about the horses, but they also are
• 54:57
  trying to work on a very doable scale because like you said, you
• 55:02
  know, there's so many people that can take on so much at
• 55:05
  once, then get in over their head.
• 55:06
  And even if you're not even worried about feeding, who's
• 55:09
  going to be the manpower that's going to feed them?
• 55:11
  You know, like who those kinds of questions.
• 55:12
  And they're both so focused on really doing it the right way
• 55:17
  for the horse, for the individual.
• 55:20
  And so I, I'm trying to just really kind of plug them and
• 55:24
  raise, raise funds and awareness for them to help them on this
• 55:27
  process. Because how cool would it be if
• 55:29
  we could, you know, continue to create this network where, yes,
• 55:32
  we get one solid, really good adopter that, you know, is ready
• 55:35
  to go and takes in a horse. And then we get a program like
• 55:38
  At Ease that can take in a couple of the rescues that have
• 55:42
  been brought in and now they can take them and give them a
• 55:46
  forever home because it's not just rescuing them from wherever
• 55:48
  they're coming from, right, And adopting them wherever.
• 55:50
  We need that longevity to last. Bring these people together so
• 55:55
  that then the rescue knows, OK, I can take on a couple because I
• 55:57
  have these people that are ready to take one on.
• 56:01
  So yeah, I think. That's.
• 56:03
  Cool possibility. Yeah, and you talked about like,
• 56:07
  what can someone do if they can't necessarily own a Mustang?
• 56:09
  And I think, Holly, you're such a perfect example of stuff you
• 56:12
  can do. And it can be really simple as
• 56:14
  like sharing a Facebook post about a Mustang that might get
• 56:18
  to someone who's never even heard or doesn't know that wild
• 56:21
  horses exist or anything about them.
• 56:23
  So I think you're a great example because you are out
• 56:26
  there just supporting and advocating and championing
• 56:29
  people who are helping the Mustangs.
• 56:31
  And that's that's not nothing at all.
• 56:33
  That's a huge support and a help to everybody that wants what's
• 56:36
  best for the Mustangs. Well it's fun for fun for me
• 56:39
  luckily. Like I'm horse obsessed.
• 56:41
  Yeah, I mean, we're glad to have you on board the Mustang crew.
• 56:44
  Yeah. Yeah, we'll, we'll chat again in
• 56:48
  a couple years and see what my Mustang looks like, right?
• 56:50
  That's right, yeah. I'm always excited when someone
• 56:53
  I've talked to doesn't have Mustang and like when are they
• 56:55
  coming? Don't tell my husband.
• 56:57
  But yeah, I mean, there's there's a lot of great folks
• 57:00
  that don't have horses that that support like roam the range they
• 57:03
  do a lot of. And dedicating.
• 57:05
  Yeah, I'm wearing her bracelets right now, Yeah.
• 57:08
  Yeah. So we love them.
• 57:10
  So we, we love them. But you know, supporting, like
• 57:13
  you said on social media, but supporting trainers that are
• 57:18
  maybe you can't own a Mustang, but you could support a good
• 57:22
  Mustang gentler so that they can go and gentle more horses to
• 57:26
  then get them out there. You know, that's always
• 57:29
  something that's really helpful. I mean, because sanctuaries
• 57:31
  there's there's just such, there's a finite amount of space
• 57:34
  and sadly there's there's just not enough space and there's
• 57:38
  capacity issues. A good Mustang gentler is the
• 57:42
  best insurance policy for a Mustang for them to try to help.
• 57:46
  Just keep them out of a because trained Mustangs tend to not end
• 57:50
  up there as often as untrained Mustangs.
• 57:53
  Yeah, it really creates value for the horse because it's no
• 57:56
  longer $125.00 horse. It's a horse that people can
• 57:59
  interact with, they can utilize for whatever things they're
• 58:02
  interested in. So yeah, that's a great point to
• 58:03
  make. Yeah, and I'm so cautious about
• 58:05
  saying that because not all trainers are created equal.
• 58:08
  And as a general rule, those impressed time frames of 90 days
• 58:12
  is just, in my opinion, that's that's not enough time.
• 58:16
  I'm not saying it's impossible, but in general there's, you
• 58:19
  know, I know what I was able to accomplish in 90 days.
• 58:22
  And it is not what sometimes you see online and you know, but you
• 58:28
  know, so finding someone that is aligned with your values and
• 58:32
  treats the horse as not like a tool or a means to an end, but
• 58:35
  an actual partner that is really, really valuable.
• 58:39
  And that time frame can be a little bit slower.
• 58:42
  So supporting that, you know, I'm a big fan of sweepo horses.
• 58:47
  They are a trained Mustangs out in California and they have a
• 58:52
  longer time frame, but their horses are fantastic and they
• 58:57
  are truly were able to you know exactly what you're getting and
• 59:01
  they're well, they're very comfortable and relaxed and
• 59:03
  nothing was forced, which I'm I'm a big supporter of.
• 59:06
  Yeah, I want to back up that recommendation.
• 59:08
  I've I've actually been there in person to Sweet Bow back in 2019
• 59:13
  when we had the whole craziness. They invited me down to see what
• 59:16
  they were up to see if it was going to be a good place to
• 59:18
  possibly, you know, put some monarchy at the.
• 59:22
  Then they've continued, like when I first visited, it was
• 59:25
  already excellent and they've continued to just grow and and
• 59:28
  get better and better. And so really incredible
• 59:30
  facility that actually truly stands by what they say when
• 59:33
  they say they take the time it takes for each horse.
• 59:36
  Yeah, and that's that's such a good phrase to keep in mind with
• 59:39
  Mustangs. Like it takes the time it takes.
• 59:41
  And if you want a good horse, you have to be able to set aside
• 59:46
  your timeline and instead focus on on your ultimate end goal.
• 59:51
  Absolutely, which is where, by the way, where I'm at.
• 59:53
  Sam Van Fleet. That was one of their trainers.
• 59:55
  So yeah. Yeah.
• 59:57
  But I am really, you know, Aaron out in Utah, she's following I'm
• 1:00:02
  and very interested in her. I love what she's doing.
• 1:00:04
  So I'm. I'm very curious to just see her
• 1:00:07
  grow and. From every.
• 1:00:09
  I've never. I haven't personally haven't met
• 1:00:11
  her but I love everything I'm seeing about her so far.
• 1:00:14
  Yeah, she's great. We did.
• 1:00:16
  And we did a fun Valentine's fundraiser for her and I sent
• 1:00:20
  out some Mustang Express postcards that had one of her
• 1:00:24
  things on it and that was super fun.
• 1:00:26
  And yeah, she's she's cool and cool family and I think she's
• 1:00:30
  going to do some great, great things.
• 1:00:33
  Really big heart. Does anyone want anything else
• 1:00:35
  to add and before we kind of wrap up, I don't.
• 1:00:39
  Know stargies are Nora my favorite Mustangs in the.
• 1:00:41
  Whole yeah follow them. They're super fun to watch so
• 1:00:45
  yeah and I guess on that note, yeah, if you guys can just maybe
• 1:00:48
  each of you can go around like where can people find you?
• 1:00:51
  What can they do to support your work?
• 1:00:53
  How can they take advantage of what you're doing Give a quick
• 1:00:56
  rundown of that and then of course I'll include it all in
• 1:00:58
  like the notes so people want to go to your websites or social
• 1:01:02
  media. It's easy to find.
• 1:01:03
  So Melissa, and then we'll go. All right, Stargies are Nora.
• 1:01:07
  We are on Instagram, we are on Facebook, we are on TikTok, so
• 1:01:11
  you can find us anywhere. You can follow along on our
• 1:01:13
  journey. I try to make it as real as
• 1:01:15
  possible so you can see a little bit behind the scenes of what it
• 1:01:18
  looks like to have Mustangs and at least my two Mustangs and
• 1:01:22
  what having them in the domestic life looks like.
• 1:01:25
  And I would say that we're just trying to, you know, you know,
• 1:01:28
  we're not a nonprofit, we're not looking for, you know, we're not
• 1:01:31
  asking for money. We're not in that case.
• 1:01:33
  But if you want to help Mustangs, I would say checking
• 1:01:36
  out the Anarchy Catalogue Foundation, which that is a, you
• 1:01:40
  know, a nonprofit that supports that documents and, you know, as
• 1:01:43
  a, as a community resource for people out in Utah and about the
• 1:01:48
  horses in Utah, I should say, and that's the herd that
• 1:01:50
  Stargazer and Nora from. And so I would say that's a
• 1:01:52
  great resource. Then I would say, you know, the
• 1:01:54
  wild beauty foundation, they're joined to do good work about
• 1:01:57
  raising awareness about wild horses.
• 1:02:00
  And I'm a big fan of, you know, the Western watersheds Anarchy
• 1:02:03
  catalog foundation. So I mean, that's, that's a
• 1:02:06
  that's a little nonprofit that actually I'm on the board of,
• 1:02:09
  you know, fair, you know, Full disclosure, but it's just, it's
• 1:02:12
  an information resource to the, you know, and it's community
• 1:02:15
  sourced, which is something that I love that kind of just informs
• 1:02:20
  others about what's happening with the anarchy horses.
• 1:02:23
  That's yeah. I don't see him.
• 1:02:25
  Yeah, so as I mentioned at the beginning, my primary thing that
• 1:02:29
  I do is sort of equine behavior type consultations.
• 1:02:32
  So my business name is equine ABC's, so the word equine and
• 1:02:36
  then ABC and then with an S at the end.
• 1:02:39
  And I'm on TikTok and Instagram, Facebook.
• 1:02:43
  I'm also looking into doing a YouTube.
• 1:02:45
  This is very kind of like dust in the sky still, but we we
• 1:02:49
  mentioned people sending in videos to help interpret.
• 1:02:52
  So one of the things I would like to start doing is taking
• 1:02:55
  sort of mainstream videos that people often share widely and
• 1:02:58
  they go, what's going on here and.
• 1:02:59
  Actually. From a science standpoint.
• 1:03:02
  So I guess if you want to follow me on YouTube and hopefully at
• 1:03:04
  some point in the near future I'll have some start to put some
• 1:03:07
  stuff like that out. We should do that.
• 1:03:09
  Yeah, that sounds great fun. Yeah.
• 1:03:12
  But then from a business's perspective, if people are
• 1:03:15
  having trouble with a Mustang or even a domestic horse and they
• 1:03:18
  want some guidance, either just in the form of a lesson or I do
• 1:03:22
  full behavioral consultations where I look at your setup and
• 1:03:24
  all the different little things that you can change for things
• 1:03:26
  like separation anxiety or aggression or source aggression,
• 1:03:29
  horse people aggression, that kind of thing.
• 1:03:32
  If you go to my website, you can look at those different services
• 1:03:35
  and book those if you want. And then also I've got courses.
• 1:03:38
  So if people want to learn more about wild horse behavior and
• 1:03:41
  how it applies to our domestic horses, I basically work with a
• 1:03:45
  group of colleagues who also do behavior type things.
• 1:03:47
  There's bats and neuroscientists, etcetera, and
• 1:03:50
  they all kind of coalesce together in this place called
• 1:03:52
  Understand Horses, which is a website, understandhorses.com.
• 1:03:55
  And there's tons of courses available there on a very wide
• 1:03:58
  breadth of horse topics. And I specifically talk about
• 1:04:01
  wild behaviors. And so you can take a look there
• 1:04:04
  and look at their courses and get some more general
• 1:04:07
  information about horses or specifically about wild horse
• 1:04:10
  behaviors if you're interested more in that.
• 1:04:11
  Awesome. And how about you Holly?
• 1:04:13
  How can people support follow? See what you up to.
• 1:04:16
  Follow me on Instagram just holly ten birds and it's HOL
• 1:04:20
  i.e. Know Y and then TENBERGE and I
• 1:04:25
  post mostly horses, my horses, my workhorses, the sanctuary
• 1:04:30
  horses. There's a actually a blind
• 1:04:33
  Mustang that's out at the sanctuary that I work with and
• 1:04:36
  we're currently kind of trying to read her brand to see if we
• 1:04:41
  can find out a little bit more about her.
• 1:04:42
  She's been there since 2012 I believe, but she's so she's so
• 1:04:47
  fun. Her name's wishes and she's
• 1:04:48
  super cute. So I post about her as well, but
• 1:04:50
  you can follow me on there and then I am in the process.
• 1:04:52
  I'm almost finished with it. I'm making a website
• 1:04:55
  specifically for the marathon and the Mustangs and links and
• 1:04:58
  links to people on social media and Melissa sent a lot of really
• 1:05:02
  good resources. So I added some of those and
• 1:05:05
  that way we can kind of streamline it so I don't have to
• 1:05:07
  explain this every single time from start to finish of what's
• 1:05:09
  going on. So when that's done, I'll share
• 1:05:11
  that on my Instagram as well. Yay, that's exciting.
• 1:05:15
  I should say too that you know, I not yet, but it's very shortly
• 1:05:18
  I'm going to have you know, stargazers paintings.
• 1:05:21
  We're going to have them on Etsy, so.
• 1:05:22
  We're going to have fun. That's so cool.
• 1:05:25
  Yeah, we, we have a few down and we're, you know, friends and
• 1:05:28
  family. So far we're refining our craft,
• 1:05:31
  but that's been pretty. Fun.
• 1:05:35
  Cool. Well, thank you guys all for
• 1:05:38
  being here. This was so good.
• 1:05:39
  It's so great to see people come together as part of the Mustang
• 1:05:42
  community. I know it can be really
• 1:05:44
  intimidating. I was definitely intimidated and
• 1:05:47
  there are definitely some people that kind of scared me when I
• 1:05:50
  first got in the Mustang community.
• 1:05:51
  But I think this is just such a testament to there's so many
• 1:05:54
  good people in the Mustang community ready to reach out and
• 1:05:58
  to help. Pam, I think the work you do is
• 1:06:00
  awesome to be able to help people understand their horses
• 1:06:02
  better and, you know, to be able to just go in and like, make
• 1:06:05
  some small changes that can really improve your horse's
• 1:06:08
  life. I think every horse owner would
• 1:06:09
  want that. So I hope people really do take
• 1:06:11
  advantage of you. And of course, Stargazer and
• 1:06:14
  Nora's story is just so fun to watch.
• 1:06:16
  When I saw Stargazer painting, I'm like, oh, that's so fun.
• 1:06:19
  It's just there's so many possibilities.
• 1:06:20
  And I love that you you share about them and help spread the
• 1:06:23
  word of Mustangs because I really think that they are super
• 1:06:26
  incredible. And I can't wait to see your
• 1:06:28
  Mustang, Holly, when you get to that point.
• 1:06:30
  So yeah, we might have to have you back on to talk.
• 1:06:34
  About it. But I was going to get a horse
• 1:06:36
  again as an adult by the time I turned 40.
• 1:06:39
  I turned 40 this June and I have two.
• 1:06:44
  So you're ahead of the timeline. That's OK.
• 1:06:46
  Yeah, we're. Not even supposed to have one,
• 1:06:48
  now we have 2. Yeah, that's OK.
• 1:06:50
  I do the same thing. They keep coming.
• 1:06:52
  I'm like, oops. But in whatever capacity you are
• 1:06:55
  in with the Mustangs, it's awesome to have you on board.
• 1:06:58
  They're they're really amazing horses and really incredible.
• 1:07:01
  And I think this is just a great resource that people can know,
• 1:07:04
  like there's people out there to help you be successful and it
• 1:07:07
  will totally be worth the journey in such a good
• 1:07:09
  experience. If you get in the Mustang world
• 1:07:11
  in any capacity, whether that's as a supporter, photographer and
• 1:07:15
  advocate, whatever you do, you know they're cool and it's a
• 1:07:19
  great community. So, yeah, and I can speak from
• 1:07:21
  my personal experiences that I haven't met anyone yet that has
• 1:07:25
  been like, you know, no, I don't want to talk to you about
• 1:07:27
  Mustangs, everybody. So let's open.
• 1:07:30
  And yeah, and I'm just learning so much and feel very unjudged
• 1:07:36
  by the community so far, which is great.
• 1:07:38
  Yeah, it's awesome. And there are definitely people
• 1:07:40
  out there who have no judgment, especially I think the people
• 1:07:42
  who have been been through the process understand it can be so
• 1:07:46
  varied. There's so many variables.
• 1:07:48
  And if you can just embrace it as a really fun learning process
• 1:07:52
  and you're committed to it, I have no doubt you'll be
• 1:07:54
  successful. Anybody who wants to get
• 1:07:57
  involved in the Mustang world and even adopt ones, thank you
• 1:08:00
  for joining us and learning about Horses that Heal and the
• 1:08:03
  humans who help them. We hope you'll continue with us
• 1:08:06
  on this journey. We'd love for you to subscribe
• 1:08:08
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• 1:08:11
  any of the major social media outlets.
• 1:08:14
  Please share with your friends anyone who loves horses or
• 1:08:17
  anyone who might be struggling and could benefit from this
• 1:08:19
  message. If you have felt the healing
• 1:08:21
  power of horses or help them in their divinely appointed
• 1:08:25
  mission, please reach out. We want to hear your story.
• 1:08:28
  As we say goodbye, always remember that the horse is
• 1:08:31
  always there to help you heal.