Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.340: Natural Fragrances 101 Ft. Wit & West Perfumes

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E.340: Natural Fragrances 101 Ft. Wit & West Perfumes · Skin Anarchy

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• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: I know that a lot of you know that there is, you know, a differentiation between natural fragrances and more synthetic fragrances.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: Today's episode is going to be all about the natural side of things.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: Without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Whitney Swales, who is the founder for Wit and West fragrances.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the show, Whitney.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me, Ecta.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: I am excited to talk to you about natural perfume and wit and west perfumes.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very excited to learn from you.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: I know that there's a lot to learn here when it comes to just, you know, the concept behind, you know, natural perfumes.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so I want to uh dive into that later.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: But first, Whitney, I would love for you to tell me more about yourself and how the line actually began and um what really inspired you if you could walk us down memory lane.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um, you know, I've always really loved perfume.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that's been a big part of my life for as long as I can remember.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I grew up in Colorado Springs and my parents had a British import shop called Swale Hall, so after our last name, um had all sorts of things.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it had British woolens, it had scarves, it had tea, um, and it also had uh this perfume brand that's really famous, old perfume brand called Floris of London.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so that was sort of my first initial exposure to perfume, and I was just kind of enamored with it and thought it was really cool and loved it whenever we got a new scent into the store.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: And my parents both really liked fragrance as well.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: My mom wore Chanel number five.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um she wore the Estee Lauder line, uh, private collection, and my dad really liked fragrance as well, Lagerfeld.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I just kind of thought that was just part of life.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I don't think I ever really thought about could perfume be more than, you know, just kind of an experiential hobby or something that I did as a collector really until, you know, probably my late 20s or so.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I had been working in corporate America um financial services and then the hospitality industry, and I was like, I'd really like to do something different.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of looked into it, and initially I was like, this seems a little more complicated than I was hoping.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have a degree in finance, and I was like, oh, maybe you need a degree in chemistry.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of abandoned that idea.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then um I met my husband about six years ago, and I was telling him, you know, I really want to do something different, I don't know what it is.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I thought about it again.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know really what kind of compelled me to think about it, but I was like, you know, I think I'm gonna just like look into this and see, is there a way to do this?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um and as I started to research it more, I kind of realized that the world of perfumery was changing in terms of how you access information from an education standpoint, how you access ingredients.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it had become a bit more democratized.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so that was interesting to me.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I was kind of like, okay, so maybe you don't need a chemistry degree, and maybe there is this other path.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: And what really initially kind of sparked my interest in natural perfumery um as I was doing this research, kind of figuring out, you know, how could I get into this, is I stumbled upon Mandy Oftel, who is kind of considered the godmother of natural perfumery.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: She owns Oftelier perfumes in California, and she is um kind of at the forefront and always has been of natural perfumery, but also on the education side.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and she's very generous with her kind of um sharing of information about natural perfumery.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: She's written a number of books that are really, really great, and she does uh a number of classes as well.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what kind of sparked my interest in natural perfumery, where I was like, you know, this is different than anything I'm familiar with because I really hadn't been that familiar with natural perfumery.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I thought maybe this is a way to kind of think about it a little bit differently.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: And as I started to work with the materials and get to know them, I was like, I really enjoyed the aspect of having this tie to nature and kind of connecting us with the natural world in a way that I don't know that I would have felt the same way about synthetic ingredients.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: So um that's kind of what drew me to it, and it's something that I was like, you know, I told my husband, I'm like, I think I would like to go this path from a perfumery perspective, the natural path.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's really what kind of led me down that path.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then I told my husband, I'm like, I've got a name.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, it's Whitney West, and he's like, I don't get it.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, you know, like my name is Whitney, and your last name is Westendorf.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, Oh, I love it, it's great.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so that was kind of how the name um came to be, really just a play on our names.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and initially I wasn't like expecting my husband to be a big part of the brand, but it's really cute as this brand has grown, he really has shown an interest in it.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And he's not really a perfume person, but he's become a perfume person.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and he is very much like my right hand in terms of the production process of the perfumes.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: He's uh an aerospace engineer direct by trade.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: So just naturally, um, for lack of a better word, it's just kind of in him to be really like process-oriented and efficient, um, which has worked out really well for me.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's kind of the background on Witten West.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's I love that.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: I love that you kind of just went with it with the natural side because you know, I I won't lie to you, you know, fragrances are so near and dear to so many people.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it really depends on like what you prefer.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: But I think when it comes to nature, like you're so right with what you said.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like there are just fragrances that bring you back to memories, and a lot of them are tied to nature, you know, whether it's the smell of like a tree or like a a flower or grass, you know, it's just it brings you back to a time.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't, you know, oftentimes synthetic fragrances, it's harder, I feel like, with them, you know, to to mimic that.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: And and so that's very interesting to me that you, you know, you really recognize this and then kind of just went with it.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Now, what were what were some of the hurdles with creating natural fragrances as compared to synthetic?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: Is there like a totally different chemistry involved or how does it really work?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, you know, I have uh kind of done some research on synthetic ingredients because ultimately everything in nature is made up of chemicals, right?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's chemical constituents even in a natural ingredient.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: So rose, um, one of the major chemical constituents that makes up rose is called eugenol.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that is a synthetic ingredient as well.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: It can be synthesized in the lab as well.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I have done some research into it.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm certainly not a chemist by any stretch of the imagination, but the thing that's challenging with natural ingredients is because they are made up of so many different uh uh naturally occurring chemical constituents, um, they are kind of like a perfume in it and of themselves.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, when you talk about rose, I mean that's got a ton of different chemical constituents within it.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: So as soon as you start blending it with other things, those chemical constituents can react, you know, in different ways.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's challenging to do natural perfumery in the sense that you can't use a ton of ingredients together because they're already so complex on their own.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, where with synthetic ingredients, because you're working with single molecules, um, you oftentimes, and and I don't know, I haven't asked a synthetic perfumer this to be sure, but you know, they could have a perfume formulation with hundreds of different um ingredients.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: And in natural perfumery, you kind of wouldn't do that.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so in a way, it seems like, oh, well, then that should be easier.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: But it's actually what makes natural perfumery harder, um, is trying to kind of work with these very complex ingredients and figure out how to make them work well together so that you have a perfume that's well balanced.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and and they do kind of change over time because they're natural.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so they do need to age.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: A perfume would need to age over time, which is true in synthetics, but um, those changes can be kind of dramatic.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's certainly something to account for.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think for me, what I what I found kind of challenging working with these ingredients is they can vary.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so by supplier, you can get different roses that you know maybe are coming from the same region, but they're coming from a different supplier, they can vary year to year.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that can be challenging too.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Or ingredients can just be gone, um, you know, if a particular producer just stops producing it.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: So there's challenges like that that, you know, are kind of related to agriculture and and just, you know, weather patterns and things of that nature.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: So um it's challenging, but but it's fun at the same time.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I can imagine.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's it's just so for me, it's so interesting from a chemistry perspective, you know, because I just love the chemistry of fragrances and then love how, you know, that really plays into how they they lay on you, how they how they transform throughout the day.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it's it's definitely, definitely an interesting area.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: Now, you know, one thing I've noticed is that your fragrances are so they're beautiful, by the way.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: I love every single one I've tried.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I um I I feel like they're actually more, they're stronger in the sense of like they they actually last longer.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's interesting.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I find them to last longer.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I'm imagining that or is that is that normal for natural fragrances?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's interesting that you say that because I think initially when I started thinking about natural perfumery, one of the things I read was that one of the biggest complaints is that they don't last as long.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think I spent a lot of time kind of thinking through, okay, how can I make them last longer?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, for better or for worse, it it has helped me kind of hone in on what particular like base notes would, you know, work well to make a perfume last longer.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I find that some people like that and some people don't.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so um initially I started out with my line of Oday parfumes and then I added um three Oday colognes because I did have people telling me, like, oh, these are actually like you know, quite strong and um they last for a long time.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I was surprised because I thought that's what people wanted, but you know, people want all sorts of different things, so people do like kind of lighter scents as well, and so um yeah, I I you're not imagining it at all.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was certainly intentional, um, but I've kind of had this um realization that that's not necessarily for everyone.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like I like really kind of like rich, um heady fragrances, and that's not necessarily what everybody likes.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I've kind of had to think through that um with additions to my line over time.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I absolutely love it.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a wonderful um, you know, component of your fragrances.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: I've I really enjoyed things I don't have to re-up on a lot, you know, because throughout the day it's last time.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree with you.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I I think it's great.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's really, really um awesome.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think your line is so wonderfully crafted because, you know, I think with natural fragrances, one would think that they're more, you know, just I don't know.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: I I it's there's a there's like a preconceived notion, I feel like, when you say natural fragrance.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like I always think like, you know, maybe it smells like, you know, a tree or like a flower, like I said earlier, but it it's not.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: It can smell just as, you know, intricate and you know, kind of um, uh what's the word?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like a bouquet of fragrances, just like any other, you know, uh line you might prefer, you know, for everyone listening out there.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I I didn't know that, you know, before I tried your line.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's it's a really, really interesting kind of realization that I had once I tried that.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, my I think my question is like rather, how do you marry different scents, you know, from that perspective of having it be a natural fragrance?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: Is it more difficult or is it easier?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, are there hurdles that you've run into with marrying two different types of scents?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: So when you say two different types of scents, are you saying, like, when I'm thinking about kind of the structure of a future perfume and I'm thinking about, let's say, something that has jasmine, for example?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Are you asking how do I think about what ingredients to use?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what you mean?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that and just make you know how like a lot of scents have like bergamot and they hot they have jasmine, they have lavender, you know what I mean?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: So like they mix all th together.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: So for you, like when you approach your perfumes, um, you know, what is that?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: What what are the things that you do marry together in terms of just creating it overall?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it depends on, you know, kind of what fragrance family I'm focused on.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: So if I'm focused on, for example, like a floral um fragrance family, then I might say kind of like, you know, is my overall goal to make this a really like kind of floral, like feminine um airy scent, or is my goal to make this kind of a um ambery, woody floral scent?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of start from that level and then from there I think through, you know, what is the character I want that this perfume to kind of evoke?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Do I want it to be, you know, something that's tied to a memory, which is that is pretty much where I start with a lot of my fragrances.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: They're all based on um, you know, either experiences my husband and I have had from a travel perspective, um, or I'm also a ballroom dancer, uh, amateur ballroom dancer.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I've got a couple of my fragrances that are trying to evoke the character or experience of a particular ballroom dance.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of them is called Le Valse, which means um the waltz in French.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's kind of this more traditional rose because vanilla, um, we actually do an in-house vanilla tincture for that one.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so a bit more of a sola floor, which a solar floor would be kind of a single note flower.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it really just kind of depends on what I'm trying to create with that experience from an olfactory or sensory experience.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then from there, you know, there's certainly ingredients that go well together.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: So you mentioned bergamot and jasmine, those are two ingredients that go very well together.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Bergamot is actually an ingredient that can be used in a lot of fragrances from a top note perspective.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it works very well in chipras.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, shepras are a very classic um uh type of fragrance.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: It actually means um uh or it's actually derived from the island of Cyprus.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so um it has uh labdanum, which comes from the rock rose, um, so kind of a resinous, rich, um, full base note, um, also has oak moss, um, and then bergamot is another key characteristic or key note within a chipra.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: So if if I was starting with something like a chipre, then I would have a bit of a skeleton kind of already started because there's these key components that go into a chipre.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um if it was something like uh a fougère, which is a another kind of traditional French perfume, fougère meaning fern-like and French.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it has ok moss, um, also lavender is a key component, um, tonka bean.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so those types of fragrances are a little bit easier.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Not they're actually pretty challenging fragrances to make, but they're a little bit easier in the sense that you do have this skeleton kind of structure to start with.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then from there, you know, you can kind of make it your own from a creative um perspective, artistic perspective.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, I mean, I think in general, it's really just time and kind of understanding, you know, what things do work well together.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's certainly certain ingredients that just kind of clash, they just don't work well together, or certain ingredients can take over a perfume.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just something I've had to learn over time through a lot of trials and sometimes frustration, but it it's oftentimes it's fun.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like interesting to figure out like, oh, I just realized that these two ingredients go really well together, or oh no, I'm making a note that these two don't go well together.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's uh it can be a challenge, but it can be a lot of fun.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: So cool.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: I love that you educated us on the different um the different categories.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: I I would love to learn more about those, actually.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: I had no idea that they're actually pre-named, like you know, stuff.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's it makes sense to me because a lot of the scents, like, for example, I love bergamot, you know, I love that like fresh, like anything that smells like water, you know?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: That water.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, I always wondered, like, do these kind of like they are they endogenous species in specific areas of the world?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do they come from certain areas?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know, it would make sense, right?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like it that would make sense, and so that's really intriguing to me what you uh kind of said there about the um different, I guess, groups, you know, that you can find.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what are some what are some that you really enjoy, you know, like uh other maybe you could mention some more and tell us what yeah, um, so the another one um that I think is a really great one and I like a lot is just is well, I mean, it's actually a concentration of a fragrance, but then also can be a style of fragrance too.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that's um an Eau Day Cologne.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but a classic cologne um is kind of like if you've ever heard of 4711, um it's a really like older um perfume brand, but they've got their kind of classic cologne style, which um includes everything from kind of citruses, sometimes more herbal aspects like a rosemary, sometimes lavender, um, and really is kind of focused on this citrus quality, um, where you have your top notes being uh a larger percentage of your overall formulation, where typically base notes make up a larger portion of your um formulation.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: But in a cologne, because the goal is to have it be this kind of light citrusy, refreshing um experience, it's more about the top notes, which tend to be in natural perfumery specifically, um, more kind of citrus uh-based ingredients.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: And cologne actually comes from um a city in Germany called Cologne, and I can't remember the perfumer's name, but he was from Italy and he really missed Italy and the Italian coast.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so he is the one who came up with the idea of an Eau de Cologne in terms of the concentration, and then also um uh in terms of kind of the style of the book, the fragrance.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: And when I say concentration, I just mean um typically a cologne would be between three and five percent um essence, uh, and then the remainder being alcohol, where um an eau de parfum would be anywhere between like 15 and 25 percent.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other one would be an eau de toilette, um which is kind of in the middle of the two, and that could be between eight and like 12% um essence.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: So um cologne is one I really like um in addition to Chibra and Fougier that I mentioned.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, SolaFloor, I mentioned earlier, is another one where it's kind of a single note um category.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, you know, you have kind of everything in between, and it kind of depends on where you're looking.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think if you look at like um maybe um I think it's the perfume perfumer society, they'll they'll say like you have floral categories, you have ambery, which ambery is um kind of the um richer, more like resinous.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: It'll have things like vanilla, um, benzoin.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um it will have uh labdanum, which is the the other ingredient I told you um kind of comes from the Mediterranean, from the rock rose.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um it will have that kind of spices like nutmeg, um, clove, um, oftentimes jasmine, so headier flowers, um kind of orange blossom things of that nature.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then you know, some of the other ones would be, you know, you have kind of further below the floral woody um citrus, you might have like a citrus floral or a floral woody or an ambery floral.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it kind of spreads from there, but it really depends on who you're talking to, you know, what the um categorizations are.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: But the really like old school traditional um perfumes, uh chibras, fougers, colognes were kind of the um Primary categories that people worked within.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: Natural perfumes really lend themselves well to those categories.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Ambery is another good one as well.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Used to be called Oriental, but that's something that in the perfume industry is going away just because of kind of the connotations of the word.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's now, I think kind of unofficially, but I think a lot of perfume houses are transitioning that name to Amberry.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's so interesting.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, I had no idea.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it actually makes a lot of sense.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I love, you know, this is something that I'm I'm very, very, very curious about is this history that you've just, you know, kind of um given us a taste of is the history of perfumery because I don't I always wondered like where did all of these different families of fragrances come from?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, who really brought them, you know, to the forefront?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: So that's very interesting.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: So let me get this straight.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: So a cologne does not necessarily imply that it's for men, then, right?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was a good point that I didn't bring up as well.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Traditionally, um, colognes really were just about the concentration.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: So light, refreshing, citrusy, kind of herbal in nature in some cases.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but over time, the perfume industry has kind of trained uh, you know, people to think that a cologne is for men and then you know, a perfume is for women, but truly it really just is a difference of concentration of the fragrance.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I think people are starting to see that a little bit more, um, but it probably hasn't really started to change until maybe the last, I don't know, like 15, 20 years or so.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, for the longest time, I I don't, I would have to go back and look.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think you would see often on men's fragrances the word perfume.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think that that is actually starting to change a lot more.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it it depends on the fragrance house.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, some fragrance houses don't necessarily use the word on the bottle if if they're really trying to make sure that they keep, you know, that particular like demographic who maybe doesn't understand the terminology and maybe doesn't care.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they may not have changed that yet.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I think a lot of people are starting to change it.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's so interesting.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: I love that you you clarified that because yeah, like especially with all of the unisex fragrances that are launching nowadays, Whitney.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like I always wonder it's like, you know, what is it that makes something unisex?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like I I never understood that.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: And now it makes sense.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like fragrance was always supposed to be unisex.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, to me, it's it's a matter of like what you're interested in.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the cool thing about natural perfumes is they kind of naturally, just by their very nature, lend themselves to be um, you know, more kind of genderless, gender neutral.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and truly it's funny.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: My my husband will wear one of our fragrances and I'll be like, wow, like it really does smell more masculine on you than it does on me.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's probably true for any fragrance.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's really just our perception in a way, like our olfactory perception.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, you know, if somebody really likes a rose fragrance and they're a man, they should totally wear that.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I completely agree with you.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that by educating people like this, it's it's better because I think men often like, you know, I had this conversation about skincare, and it was like about how men think that, you know, just because something is named a certain way, like they're less inclined to buy it, you know.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that marketing has done such injustice, you know, I feel like to so many different uh, you know, areas of beauty and wellness, and I didn't realize fragrance was one of them, you know.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: So if if you're a man out there and you're listening in, you know, just because something has, you know, perfume on it doesn't mean that it's not made for you.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've I've tried so many scents that are very like masculine.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, like I I guess you could say, you know, the scent is very masculine.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I've I've often said, like, okay, no, I can't wear this.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I feel like I smell like my my ex from like high school when I'm wearing this.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, it it's interesting.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's very interesting.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's really a matter of education.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I I I would love to like see the industry kind of shift and and start talking about this more because yeah, like I said, you know, unisex perfumes are or unisex scents are really you know making a a comeback or I guess a rise, you know, in this industry.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it makes you wonder like, you know, is it another marketing hoax?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like yeah, yeah.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it for it for sure was a marketing angle.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because you know, the majority of people who wore fragrance were women, and so that's where the marketing dollars were spent were to, you know, target women, as probably very true in skincare, I would imagine as well.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that is I I mean, both, like you said, both of those things are changing where um I don't know that a lot of men were really concerned about skincare 30, 40 years ago that wasn't really in their vocabulary, right?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: And now maybe it's something that people have started to see can be beneficial to everyone.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: It really doesn't matter what your gender is.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: No, absolutely.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think that's very, very fascinating.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we might have to do a whole episode on this.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:27
  unknown: Yeah.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: This would be very cool.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so going back to your brand, I really think that you know this is a good time to to talk about that, you know, in terms of how men can also be very much into, you know, Wit and West perfumes, because I mean it's a really, really great line.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I would love to hear your feedback on, you know, if any of your consumers fall into the male demographic, you know, any feedback you've heard, um, you know, either from their wives or their partners or whoever, if they've been, you know, utilizing your collection, or is that not really something you're seeing yet?
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um, the thing that I've learned kind of as we've evolved this brand is there really is a world of um fragrance enthusiasts who are collectors, um, and a lot of them are men.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: And and I love that.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's so cool.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: I I didn't even realize that.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, one, I I thought that my fragrance collection of five fragrances or 10 fragrances was a collection, but I've learned um just through Instagram that I certainly was not a collector.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's people that have hundreds of fragrances and they like to try different things and they like to talk about it on Instagram.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of it, a lot of the people out there are men, and I think it's super cool.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I do have a number of men who uh wear my fragrances and who've come to me on Instagram and who've been interested in my fragrances.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of them I think that a lot of men really like, and actually a lot of women really like too, um, is Brumaire Woods.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: And Brumaire Woods is a fougère.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think what works really well and why it can lend itself to be great for um any gender is that because it's a fougère, it has oak moss, which tends to have a masculine edge.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's kind of earthy, it's dark.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's what people think of when they think of an old school fragrance.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then it has lavender, which lavender can kind of go both ways.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that's great.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then it also has um Virolli, um, which comes from the bitter orange tree and is a flower, but um is often used in Eau Day Colognes and kind of the cologne citrus style.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so there's something about that fragrance that I think really has this mass appeal for everyone, which is great.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um I do have you know a couple of fragrances that I would say certainly are more kind of feminine leaning.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: So one of them is Yuzu Pop, um, which is an Eau de Cologne.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think you had that in some of the samples that I gave you.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that one has Yuzu, which is a Japanese citrus, um jasmine and orange blossom.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I do find that women really like that one.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, another one that I think is really great for women is Rose LA.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, again, uh kind of citrus focused.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's got pink grapefruit, um, red mandarin, um, rose, and rhododendron, which is a flower that kind of has an effervescent quality, um, hence the name rose.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: So those are kind of ones that I think lean a little bit more feminine, but you know, certainly I've had um men who really like Rose LA.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it really just depends um, you know, on the person.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think, you know, I really want to create more kind of like woody fragrances.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is probably something that might have more appeal to men.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, it's like I I like all of your fragrances, honestly.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like all the all the things I've tried, I've really, really enjoyed them.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that um I can see all of them really being very unisex, you know, like you can really um mix and match, and and I don't see any problem, you know, if you're a male or a female.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that you brought up that point about the collectors because I kid you not, that is literally why I started Fragrance Fridays, because I brought up Instagram and I was like, oh my gosh, like especially like middle, like in the Middle East, there's a lot of hype around men collecting fragrances, yeah, and these beautiful collections.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: And some of these, like, you know, um brands I've just never heard of in my life, never even seen them, but they're just stunning, you know.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, there's definitely a huge group of people out there that are like hardcore collectors, and I I find that to be very interesting as well.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I agree.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: But no, I I think that you know, I think you've created such a such a marvelous line, and I love that you've gone the natural route.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think that there's a lot to be said about anything that's based in nature, you know.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: I I really believe in that idea of like, you know, back in the day we didn't have this, you know, the perfume world and stuff.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: So people were relying on things, like, you know, grinding up things, like, you know, on a rural level.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I think when you and I spoke before the podcast, I had told you, like, my grandmothers, you know, they used to, you know, grind up certain flowers or leaves or like even a wood, you know, like wood bark, and it was like a fragrance.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: And the oils that were extracted from that, they would use that, you know.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that dates back so many thousands of years is this idea of natural fragrance and really using your surroundings as inspiration.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I love what you're doing.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's absolutely brilliant.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, hats off to you.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you and I had talked a little bit about um, you know, the thing that I find really interesting and kind of um fun uh when you think about natural perfumery in terms of uh more traditional methods of of extracting a particular ingredient.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, I think most people are familiar with distillation.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: So a still um, you know, could be used for steam distillation.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oftentimes citruses are steam distilled, um, the peels are steam distilled.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but one that most people don't know about, or or a lot of people don't know about unless they are really familiar with um, you know, the world of fragrance is inflourage, um, which is a traditional French method of extraction.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: It has kind of fallen out of favor, except for now it's it's being revived by artisans.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the reason that it fell out of favor is because it's a very laborious and kind of time-consuming um and just generally low-yielding kind of process.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so um it was a method that was used um basically uh by the French to extract flower or scent from flowers that weren't like readily um uh conducive to distillation.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: So things like jasmine really can't be distilled.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think there are some maybe artisan distillers who do um hydro distillation, which is a kind of gentler form of distillation with jasmine, but it's not something that's readily available on the market.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so things like jasmine before solvent extraction came about worked really well for something like inflourage.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: There's other flowers like lilacs.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: You couldn't distill lilacs, it would pretty much be ruined, it would be a muddled mess.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it wouldn't smell the same because the flowers are so delicate, the petals are delicate.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so, what inflourage is, is basically you get a glass tray and then you put some type of neutral fat, like a coconut oil or palm oil on it, and you spread that on the tray.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you take fresh flowers, put that on the fat, um, cover it so you know it's protected, but has some kind of air so that it can breathe a little bit.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you let that sit, depending on the flower, potentially one day.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes flowers that kind of breathe their scent longer.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can do multiple days, something like a lilac, you would only want to do for a day because they start to wilt.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then you replace it multiple times, sometimes 30, 40, 50 times.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the fat, so the coconut oil or palm oil, actually absorbs the scent from the flowers.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so what you're left with is is potentially either something that could be used on its own.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you could use it as kind of like a body butter or something.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's a very highly fragrant, very true to life scent that you're left with, which is awesome, or you can kind of process that further into what's known as an extrait.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so the way that you do that is you take the fat and you soak it in uh ethanol, alcohol, so 190-proof alcohol.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the alcohol absorbs that scent.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so you have to kind of let it sit for I've found sometimes up to like six months, um, and then you have to uh filter it a number of times to get the coconut oil out.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you can see how this is like a really like involved um process that can take months and months and months.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you're working with seasonal flowers, and so it can, in my case, I've been doing this for several years to try and get um just enough to be able to release um a new perfume.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's amazing because it's this, it's this uh um the quality that you get from an inflourage x-ray oil is awesome in terms of scent profile because it's just not something that like a lilac that you would be able to get in any other way.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um there are some extractions of lilac, like a CO2, which is a super critical extraction, um, but you can't use an alcohol-based perfume for it because it doesn't really dissolve an alcohol.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: So doing something like em florage allows you to use it in an alcohol-based perfume and really capture the scent, the fresh uh or the um scent of a fresh lilac bush.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's so interesting.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: So wait, so do every I I'm I'm gonna back up a little bit because I'm very, very, you know, uh newbie when it comes to this stuff.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: So um what you mentioned, like, you know, so when it comes to alcohol, it doesn't so every fragrance doesn't have to have a concentration of alcohol in it, then, right?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, if it depends on what kind of format of fragrance you're talking about.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: So all of my fragrances um do have alcohol as their base.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: We use an organic alcohol um in our base um from a company out of Oregon.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, some people do oil-based, so maybe like a fractionated coconut oil.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: I I choose not to, mainly because um there's a number of ingredients, natural ingredients, that don't dissolve an oil.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: And there's also the opposite uh where some ingredients don't dissolve an alcohol, but most ingredients do.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I also find that with an oil-based perfume, you do have kind of like degradation over time where there's separation that can happen.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the color of the fragrance can kind of change.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so to me, what I really like about using an alcohol-based is the shelf life is a little bit longer.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: The experience of wearing the fragrance I enjoy more.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: I enjoy the experience of being able to kind of spray it and you know get the full effect of the fragrance as opposed to um, you know, like an oil-based perfume is really something that holds closer to the skin, which is great.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so if you like that, then I think that can work well for some people.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's just not something I like as much.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then in Fleurage, I had kind of started to go down this path a little bit.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe this is what you were saying.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um originally, you I think people often would use it as more of like a solid perfume.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so you could put like beeswax or something to make the um palm oil or the coconut oil um a little bit harder than it would be on its own.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because if you've ever worked with coconut oil, um and not the liquid coconut oil, right?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like the actual like coconut oil that's it's kind of like a butter if you if you look at it, but as soon as it's exposed to any level of higher temperature, it will basically liquefy.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so if you put something like beeswax in it, then it will be you know kind of more solidified.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's really interesting.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you're right about coconut oil.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's very uh And so from there you could, you know, potentially Oh go ahead.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, Ecta.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, I I thought you cut out.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: Please go ahead.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, I was just gonna say, um, you know, so if you put beeswax or something with the um uh palm oil or um coconut oil, uh after you've extracted the scent into basically what it ends up being called is um the enflourage fats, um, you could, you know, add other ingredients, other oils or something to complete to create a more kind of complete perfume, and then you'd have a solid perfume.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: And what I was describing is kind of extracting it further so that it could be used in an alcohol-based perfume.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's so interesting.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, I I just feel like this, you know, this entire world of fragrance is so like it's just so like pliable and moldable, and you know, you can have so many different options.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's really interesting about the the beeswax and the coconut because you know, I I always wonder it's like do you have to have certain solvents?
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have to have certain ways of extraction?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: So that's really it answered a lot of my questions, actually.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the the other ones that are kind of newer.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: So if we if we go back, like, you know, to basically alchemists who were kind of the first um distillers and and perfumers, if you will, um, they did it based on distillation.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: And distillation is a very limited palette of ingredients that you're able to, you know, kind of use.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's a lot of citruses, there's some woods, um, there are some flowers.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, lavender can be distilled.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: There is uh rose auto, is a distilled um version of rose.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there was there was a lot of flowers that you really couldn't distill, which is kind of a bummer because there's so many amazing flowers and um things like jasmine, um, narcissus, some of these other flowers, um, frangipani, which um some people know as plumeria, um, really didn't lend themselves well to distillation.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: So having solvent extraction, um, which would create an absolute oil, is what really allowed a natural perfumer to have an expanded palette of ingredients to use in perfume formulation.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, and more so in the kind of floral aspect.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: So this kind of allowed this um, you know, more kind of diverse quality of fragrances and um diverse style of fragrances to evolve over time.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, inflorage was another one that uh, you know, you're able to kind of have these more delicate flowers um available to you.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then um CO2 extraction, and I'm not a chemist, so I don't, I don't, I'm not gonna explain it like as perfectly as I think as someone who is a chemist would, but it's basically a um high pressure uh supercritical um method that uses CO2 to extract a scent.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: And what's kind of cool about that method is it creates kind of a different quality of um aromatic or olfactory um experience with a particular ingredient.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: So you can do CO2 extraction with jasmine, you can do it with rose, and the scent profile of those ingredients is very, very different than what you would get from solvent extraction.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so that's really cool too.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: As a natural perfumer, you know, I think people sometimes are like, oh, you're really limited in your ingredients.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, yes and no, because not only do you have this um diversity of basically origin of ingredients.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, maybe uh rose that you get from Bulgaria might be quite different than something that you would get in Morocco.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you have that diversity of original origin of the ingredient.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then you also have the extraction process can create an entirely different ingredient in some cases, it feels like, um, in terms of scent profile, um, which I find really cool.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things I like to do as a result of having these different kinds of extraction um methods available uh in terms of ingredient sourcing is for example, um if I'm working with something like jasmine and I really want it to be something that um has uh the experience from top, middle to base to dry down, um then I might use something like a jasmine grandiforum.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's solvent extracted.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I might also use a jasmine CO2 because jasmine CO2 tends to act a little bit more like a base snow.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so it allows you to kind of carry that experience throughout the duration of the perfume wearing or throughout the duration of the day while you're wearing a perfume, which I think is really cool.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's there's a few other things I've been able to do that with.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's a CO2 extraction of sandalwood.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and in that case, that acts a little bit more like a top note.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, sandalwood is usually um uh distilled.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's also a um kind of an upcycled by absolute version of sandalwood, which is a solvent extraction.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so there's this ability to kind of use these ingredients in different ways where you can have the experience of that particular ingredient throughout the whole um, you know, experience of the of the perfume, which I I really enjoy.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes you're like, oh, I really wish that, you know, the opening of this perfume lasted just a little bit longer.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um I've had that.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I I was that's actually so cool to me because like I told you, like I love bergamot and I love citrus smells.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I was actually one of the previous episodes I did, they were, you know, one my guest was like, well, usually those smells, you know, those scents are the first ones to evaporate.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: So they really leave you very quickly.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: But then I'm like, you know, now that we're talking about the different types of um extractions, it's like if you could create a scent that was like literally like one of your favorite notes, you know, and just have that as like the main part of the fragrance, like that would be such a like something for me, especially as a consumer, I would gravitate towards because a lot of you know, that's where I you know for me that's so intriguing, especially from like the blending standpoint.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know how people are like, Well, I I you know, I blend my perfumes, I I wear or mix and match, you know, and that's great.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like how cool would it be to do what you just described here, which is just have one fragrance that's jasmine extracted in different ways so it lasts, and then you know, you have the various ones, you know, that's just like basically one type of scent, and then you create your own, you know, personalized profile.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: But that's that's so cool to me.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: I love how you can really play around with it.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, you you mentioned bergamot, and I I wish I could figure out a way to make bergamot last uh for the full duration of a perfume.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: But as your other August um alluded to, because it's a top note, it's very volatile and so it's very fleeting.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's other things that I kind of think about when I'm thinking about citrus to make it last longer.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's ingredients that act like citrus that maybe aren't.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um Litsi kubiba is one.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's not citrus, but it has a citrus kind of lemony, almost um, almost like those uh, and I can't think of what they're called, those lemon candies.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I feel like they're what are they called?
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: Lemonheads.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they smell like lemon heads.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so that's kind of a way to um make something, and it doesn't smell just like bergamot, but if I'm thinking of, you know, I want citrus to to kind of be this perfume, um, that would be something I would use.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um bergamot and orange blossom and neuroli work really well together because they all come from the same tree, the bitter orange tree.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's another way to kind of like think about like, oh, I want this to have this kind of bergamot quality, this bitter orange tree quality.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, that's another way to kind of think about it is ingredients that are similar and come from the same plant or maybe the same um, you know, kind of place in the world of the same origin, oftentimes can have similar qualities.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, rose uh it has similar qualities and chemical constituents to um basil.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes I'll use basil because they go really well together, and basil's a top note.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so other there's other ways to kind of pull out um the experience of a particular note with similar ingredients that have similar chemical constituents as well.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's so interesting.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: I love that you said that because actually it's ironic that you said that because I one of my favorite fragrances, um, it does have Neuroli, orange blossom, and bergamot in it.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's very interesting to kind of put those pieces together.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, this is this is very fascinating, Whitney.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, honestly, I think, you know, for me, the chemistry of this is the most intriguing part is you know how you can do the different extractions, how you can, you know, you utilize that, like you said, to create a profile or a really an an index of fragrances that's not just based off of you know where you source them from or where they're from.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's that's that is a very, very cutting edge.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think um, you know, these are the exact kind of facts that we never learn about, you know, as consumers.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't I didn't know this before you told me, you know, and that that makes me happy and sad at the same time.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I feel like we should all know about these things.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, I I absolutely love everything you've shared and thank you for that.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I would actually love to do this as a series with you because I think there's a lot of knowledge to be gained, you know, here because the uh consumers don't know about this stuff, you know.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah, I I love it.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: But I love your line actually.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_02: Your line is actually wonderful, and I've really enjoyed it so far, and I really love the work that you guys are doing.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, for everyone listening, I really urge you to go check out the whole fragrance collection of Whitney West, and I will link everything in the podcast um art for this episode.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: But again, like I said, you know, knowledge is power.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, go with people who know what we're talking about, you know, and go with the founders that have background, like Whitney, you know, like if they can explain it to you, that means they know what they're doing.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: And that's you can't say that about a lot of people in this space, I promise.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, definitely check out the brand.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: I will link everything.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_02: But Whitney, you've been such a dream to host.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's been such a dream to host you.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you for talking to me about um Whitney West perfumes and just perfume in general.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's something I'm really passionate about and I I love to talk about it to other people who also like to talk about it.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you, Ecta.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, my pleasure.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and again, everyone listening, make sure you check out the brand and also leave us your comments and questions because this was a very informative episode, and I would love to hear your questions.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_02: And if you have any, you can definitely leave them in the comment section or email me.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: I will definitely pass them along um to Whitney's team and see if we can have her on again and you know, do like a QA or something.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, thank you again, and I will be back next time.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 50:57
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• 51:02
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• 52:02
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.