Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Safe In Your Own Home | JUSTICE NATION: CRIME STOPS HERE

Transcript

Safe In Your Own Home | JUSTICE NATION: CRIME STOPS HERE · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Niasy grace here. Welcome to Justice Nation. Crime
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: stops here. This online education course is designed to help
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: you protect what you love the most, your children and
• 0:12
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• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Terms apply. Thank you LifeLock for making this possible and
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: for being our partner. Welcome to Session one. Thank you
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: for being with us Session one. Safe in your own home.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: When I come home, the very first thing I want
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  Speaker 1: to hear is the alarm going off, because I want
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  Speaker 1: to know it's been on since I've been gone. I
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: have prosecuted thousands of cases of home burglaries that went wrong.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: I have walked through crime scenes that seemingly started as
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: a burglary that ended in a violent attack or worse,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: the old catchphrase there's no place like home, your home.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Your home is like a jewelry box, and you open
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: it up and inside that box the jewel your children.
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  Speaker 1: I have devoted my life to protecting people from violent crime,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: specifically children, and now my own children, and I know
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: I won't get a second chance. Today we are joined
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  Speaker 1: by experts who have dedicated their lives to finding missing children,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: to reuniting families, and most important, sharing the secrets to
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  Speaker 1: protect your home and stop child abductions before they happen.
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  Speaker 1: Let us share with you what we have learned. With
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  Speaker 1: me here in our home. Is a hero, a personal hero,
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  Speaker 1: an icon, a warrior. You know him, I'm sure Mark Class.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Mark is the founder of Class Kids and has devoted
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: his life to finding missing children at great, great personal expense.
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  Speaker 1: You know, I try to tell your story sometimes and
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I can't do it justice. So I have you here
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: and I want you to tell your story and why
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: you devoted your whole life to seeking justice.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Well, first of all, thanks for having me, Nancy. I
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: truly appreciate it, and it's nice to be with you.
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  Speaker 2: As you know, my story began on October first, nineteen
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  Speaker 2: ninety three.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: You know what, I've never been able to hear you
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  Speaker 1: tell this without getting upset. I just in my mind,
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  Speaker 1: I say Polly in the picture and I think of
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: her that way, just beautiful, with that smile, those beautiful eyes.
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  Speaker 1: Or that's how I think. Thank her. And you know
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: your strength inspire so many people. Okay, I'll try not
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: dinnerrup Tokeet.
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  Speaker 2: She lived in a home in Petaluma, California, with her
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  Speaker 2: mother and her half sister, and she was hosting a
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  Speaker 2: slumber party on a Friday night, the first of October
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  Speaker 2: with two of her girlfriends, and at about ten thirty
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  Speaker 2: in the evening, as the girls were preparing to get
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  Speaker 2: ready for bed, Paullie opened her bedroom door and he
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: was standing there with a butcher knife, and he threatened
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  Speaker 2: to slit their throats if they made a noise. Now,
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  Speaker 2: the two girls that were with Pollie thought it was
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  Speaker 2: a joke. They thought that Pollie was just trying to
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: demonstrate her acting chops until he gagged them and bound
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: them and put the pillowcases over their heads. That's when
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: they realized something terrible was happening. And after he did that,
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  Speaker 2: he pulled Pollie up and disappeared into the knife. He
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: told the girls to count to a thousand and that
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  Speaker 2: Polly would be back and had told them that it
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  Speaker 2: was only about the money. Now, this is a part
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  Speaker 2: of the story that I haven't really told before, because
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  Speaker 2: after a few minutes, the two girls did everything they
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  Speaker 2: could to extricate themselves and they got out of the
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  Speaker 2: bines and they went into the next bedroom, which was
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  Speaker 2: separated by a jack and jail bathroom, and woke up
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  Speaker 2: Polly's mom, who slipped through the entire ordeal and told
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: her what had happened. At this point, one of the girls,
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Jillian Pellham, went to find Polly and she thought she
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  Speaker 2: would be in the living room, and she wasn't in
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: the living room, and the back door was opened, so
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: she followed out through the back door and walking along
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  Speaker 2: the side of the house, quietly calling Pollie's name, Polly,
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  Speaker 2: where are you? Polly, where are you? And she worked
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  Speaker 2: her way around the side of the house and walked
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  Speaker 2: into the middle of the street, which was well lighted
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  Speaker 2: in each direction, and she looked up and there was nothing.
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  Speaker 2: She looked the other way and there was nothing. And
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: then a chill went up her spine because she realized
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  Speaker 2: that it wasn't a robbery, that in fact, it was
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  Speaker 2: a kidnapping. And she came back into Pauli's bedroom and
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  Speaker 2: Polly's mom was on the phone with nine one one,
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  Speaker 2: and she said, she's not here. They took her. And
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  Speaker 2: that was the beginning of a sixty five day ordeal
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  Speaker 2: that ended on the fourth of December, when a homeowner
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  Speaker 2: realized that the crime scene was on her extensive property
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  Speaker 2: and brought the sheriff in. They determined that there had
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: been an incident the night that Pauli was kidnapped. They
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: ran a background on the individual who was involved in
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: that incident that he was a twice convicted kidnapper, and
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  Speaker 2: we're then able to put the story together, go and
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  Speaker 2: arrest him, and he currently resides on death robe. What
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: he had done that night is he had kidnapped her,
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  Speaker 2: and he murdered her within about a two hour window,
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  Speaker 2: and we found her remains off the side of a
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  Speaker 2: freeway under a piece of plywood and some other rubbish.
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  Speaker 2: And it shouldn't have happened. I mean, for so many reasons,
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  Speaker 2: what happened to her shouldn't have happened.
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  Speaker 1: I'm trying to digest everything you just said. And I've
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: heard you tell the story of Polly before, and I've
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  Speaker 1: told you this so often when people ask me about
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: my fiances, Martyr, I'm used to telling it, and I
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: tell the story almost robotically because I don't really want
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  Speaker 1: to think about it. I want to answer their question
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: and not think about it anymore. Because you know now
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: that I have the twins. If I go to that
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: place of thinking about case murder, the twins do not
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: do My children do not deserve a sad or depressed
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: or upset mother. They need a happy and encouraging mom,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: So I will, you know, go through it robotically. I've
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: heard you tell the story of Polly being kidnapped before,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: but I noticed just then when you were telling that
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  Speaker 1: story your hand started shaking. That tells me it is
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  Speaker 1: not robotic. Even all of these years later, I don't
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: know how you can even tell that story.
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  Speaker 2: When I decided, shortly after all was concluded and we
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: had put Polly to rest, that I was going to
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: can you to pursue a child safety agenda, and that
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: I was going to do it in her name, for
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  Speaker 2: her legacy. I knew that I had no idea how
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: long I would be able to do it, or what
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: kind of successor would be. But I knew that I
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: would have to retell that story, and I'd have to
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: retell that story, probably on a very regular basis. And Jesus,
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  Speaker 2: it's so hard.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I have never ever heard you pause, I
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: have never seen you shed a tear, And just then,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: when I saw your hands shaking as you were talking
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  Speaker 1: about it, that's the first time I have ever seen
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  Speaker 1: you show emotion in this battle that you have taken
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  Speaker 1: on in Polly's name. I'm trying to crystallize everything you
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  Speaker 1: said and what can I learn from it. I want
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  Speaker 1: to go back to some facts. Sure, was this a
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  Speaker 1: home or an apartment?
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  Speaker 2: It was a home.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: It was a house.
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  Speaker 2: It was a single family.
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  Speaker 1: Dwelling with a front yard in a backyard, and.
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  Speaker 2: A front yard in a backyard actually with a little
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  Speaker 2: granny unit right behind it.
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  Speaker 1: That's interesting about the granny union because I've always been
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  Speaker 1: concerned about outhouses or the curtilage of your home as
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: it is called in the law, a playhouse, a shed,
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  Speaker 1: a storage pod, or whatever, because it's a perfect place
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  Speaker 1: for someone to hide and watch your house. So you
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  Speaker 1: had a granny house and was there a burglar alarm?
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  Speaker 2: No?
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  Speaker 1: But the doors were locked. No, the doors were not locked.
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  Speaker 2: No.
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  Speaker 1: I did not know.
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  Speaker 2: That the doors. The back door was not locked and
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  Speaker 2: oftentimes was not locked. Paulie opened her bedroom door, bedroom door,
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  Speaker 2: He opened her bedroom door into the living room, and
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  Speaker 2: he was standing there. And we know that he came
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  Speaker 2: in through the back because the person living in the
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  Speaker 2: granny unit witnessed him enter the house. But he said
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: at trial and through interrogation that he believed that that
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  Speaker 2: individual belonged in the house because he moved with such
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  Speaker 2: a sense of purpose.
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  Speaker 1: Do you think that Richard Allen Davis, the perpetrator that
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  Speaker 1: took Polly, had been spying on your home or spying
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  Speaker 1: on Polly?
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely? Why do you say that he stalked her? We
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  Speaker 2: know he stalked her because it all came out of trial.
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  Speaker 2: At least six people came and took to stand and
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  Speaker 2: made the case that he started coming to Pedaluma as
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  Speaker 2: a way station to visit his sister, and he became
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  Speaker 2: more and more comfortable with it, and he started to
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: enclose around Polly's house. So over the course of about
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: six weeks, he started to spend more and more time
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  Speaker 2: in Pedaluma, and he started to bring himself closer and
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  Speaker 2: closer and closer to her house, almost as if he
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: were spending a web.
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  Speaker 1: When did he first Polly?
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  Speaker 2: We don't know when he first saw Pollie. We don't
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: know if it was that day or if it was
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: six weeks before. We don't know that because we can't
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: trust what he would say. I mean, what he said.
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  Speaker 2: What he said is that it was all a big misunderstanding,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: that he was high on pot and beer and the
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: next thing, he knew she was there. But we know
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  Speaker 2: that that's not the truth. We absolutely know that he
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: stalked her, he identified her. And as I've said before,
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: what can a twelve year old girl do against a
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  Speaker 2: determined predator with a weapon. And it turns out there
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: was nothing that she could really do with that, I
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: don't say that. No, what she could have done, and
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: what she should have done is scream, go scream and
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: not go with him, Absolutely is what she should have done.
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  Speaker 2: Never should a child leave that point.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: You know what's interesting is, and I've said this so
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: many times, I've said, isn't it odd that the parents
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: didn't hear anything? Isn't that freakishly unusual? It's not. It
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: is not. There have been times mark when I would
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: wake up at night and Lucy, usually Lucy sometimes John
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: David would be standing right there doing this to me.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: And I consider myself a very light sleeper. I didn't
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  Speaker 1: hear a thing. It happens your former wife didn't hear
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: a thing. No, nothing, no, And it's almost as if
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: you kind of blame the sleeping person. It's not their fault. No, So,
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  Speaker 1: how he came in an unlocked door, likely unlocked door
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  Speaker 1: and walked straight in and was waiting at her bedroom.
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  Speaker 1: You had never had contact with him at all, never, none, whatsoever.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Absolutely no idea who this individual was.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: And it's your belief he had been stalking.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: It's not my belief. It was proven.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: You're right with the six witnesses.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Correct, six different witnesses, and each one of those individuals,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: interestingly enough, knew that he didn't belong there, and the
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: female witnesses would cross the street when he came because
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: they were put off either by his prison tattoos, by
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: his surly demeanor, by his dead eyes, or by his
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: public drinking. Every last one of those individuals, but not
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: one of those individuals ever informed law enforcement, which would
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: have given them probable cause to approach him and say
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: who are you?
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: And where did these six witnesses spot him in relation
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: to Polly's.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Home, all within three block radius.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Just walking around the neighborhood.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just be in there. The last one prior
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: to the abduction, noticed him in a park diagonally across.
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  Speaker 1: The corner for Paul Lord and having a park in a.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Park looking back towards Polly's house, sitting with who turned
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: out to be his sister, a woman who turned out
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: to be a sister, both drinking out of a brown
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: paper bag, and a week later she was gone.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: And you know what's interesting about that neighborhood. That was
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: a nice neighborhood. It was a pretty good and you
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: would not expect to see vagrants sitting in the neighborhood
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: drinking booze out of a paper bag.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: Here's the right there, here's the problem. There were two
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: parks within close proximity. One of those parks allowed public drinking,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: so and it was right across the screen from the
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Greyhound station, which is how he was originally getting there.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: So he would go to the Greyhound station, he would
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: see vagrants drinking in that park and ultimately join those vagrants,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: ultimately became comfortable in that venue, and then, unfortunately, the
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: rest is tragic history.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: What did police do immediately when Polly goes missing.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Well, the very first police officer on the scene obviously
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: contacted as many people as he possibly could. They put
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: out an all points bulletin, and the all points bulletin
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: unfortunately said this information is not for press release. And
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: as a result of that, dispatchers at the various jurisdictions
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: did not relay the information that there had just been
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: a kidnapping to deputies in the cars, because they thought
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: the press might be monitoring those radio frequencies. Therefore, when
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: that incident that I mentioned earlier occurred about an hour
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: after Paully was kidnapped, there were two deputies present who
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: were right there with the perpetrator, and instead of pursuing
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: who he was and why he was on a private
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: country road at midnight, helped him pull his vehicle out
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: of a ditch, which is why he didn't leave on
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: his own, and sent him along on his way within
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: an hour of Polly being kidnapped. I did know this
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: part of the story, that they had him before I
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: was even notified that PAULI had been kidnapped. They had
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: him and he said vile things, drinking beer in front
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: of them. He had threatened somebody on that property a
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: few minutes earlier. He had threatened the babysitter that was leaving,
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: and no, they let him go.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: Mark, how did you find out Polly was missing?
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: I got a call from the estranged stepfather who told me.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Number One. First, he called my wife. He told Violet
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: she didn't want to listen. She gave the phone to me.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: He told me what had happened, and he said, don't
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: come up to Pedaluma. The police don't want to distract
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: father trampling evidence. So I did two things. Number One,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: I called Petaluma police to confirm that this actually had occurred.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: And then I called Polly's mother to confirm that it
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: actually had occurred. And then I called the FBI. I
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: called the FBI because there's something in my mindset Lindberg,
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: the Lindberg baby in the FBI. And it turns out
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: that it was probably the smartest thing that I did
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: during that entire ordeal, because they came in and they
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: brought all of their vast resources, which ultimately I think
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: helped to solve the case.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Mark when a child goes missing, if you could relay
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: what the parents need to do immediately, what's the first
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: thing they need to do.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: The very first thing they need to do is confirm
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: that the child actually is not in the house. And
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: you can do that in a variety of ways.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: You can write John and a ramsay, sure they forgot
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: to look in a ram Sure.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Sure you check claustes, you check under the couch, you
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: check any place a child maybe hiding. Then you contact
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: nine to one one, no question about. You have to
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: call nine one one, and you have to give them
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: as detailed a description of what happened to the best
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: of your knowledge that you can. What does a child
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: look like, what was the child wearing? Does a child
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: have any distinguishing marks that are obviously visible, those kinds
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: of things. Then I think you need to contact every
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: other local law enforcement agency and let them know, don't
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: depend on anybody else to do it. And then you
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: should call the FBI. Then you should call media assignment disks,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: not that they're going to give you an interview, but
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: that they know that you're there, and they know that
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: if this turns into something that you're available to talk
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: about your child, that you're there to advocate for your
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: missing child, because nobody can do that better than the
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: parent themselves. Then I think it's very important to engage
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: social media, something that we didn't have available. You know,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Paully was the first missing child on the internet. There
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: was no social media at that time. But now, well
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: here let me give you an example. When Paullie disappeared,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: we on the day after she disappeared, we acquired a
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: mailing list and then we started reproducing her flyer. That
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: was on the third day after. On the fourth day
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: after we started putting the mailing, we started putting the
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: flyer into envelopes and addressing the envelopes. On the fifth
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: day after, somebody mortgaged their house so we could buy
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: stamps so that we could send these things out to
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: places like hospitals, homeless shelters, law enforcement agencies. On the
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: eighth day they started those flyers started arriving at their destinations.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Now you can go on to Facebook and you can
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: create a missing page for your child in ten minutes.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: You can load up as many photos as you want,
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: you can load up video, you can link articles, you
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: can engage yourself with missing person communities, and do so
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: much more for absolutely no money at all than we
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: were able to do over the course of eight days,
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: for many, many thousands of dollars.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Not just the money mark.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: But the time, well, the time, the times, the critical thing, critical,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: crucial and why is that That's because Nancy, within seventy
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: four percent of them will be dead within the first
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: three hours. There is absolutely no time to waste in it,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: something that absolutely everybody understands. That's why you have to
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: engage immediately, and you have to engage as many people
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: as you possibly can, people that can make a difference.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: You do it immediately, because now you have things like
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: the Amber Alert, which didn't exist back in those days,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: so an APB would never go out again, not in
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: this modern era that says this information is not for
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: press release, because they know, they know that your best
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: chance of recovering that child is to find the individual
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: that took that child and to use that information to
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: hopefully bring it home and turn in absolutely everybody. Everybody
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: becomes the eyes and ears of law enforcement at that point.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Truckers on the road, people driving in their cars, people
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: at home, everybody. Do you hear something, do you see something?
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: You know something that's going to make a different in
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: this child's life.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: With us here in our home is Mark Class. As
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: I always say, Polly's dad, who has devoted his life
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: to finding missing people, specifically children, and rescuing them. What
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: he knows, what he has learned, what he has lived through,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: can't be fit into a to do list or a checklist.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: It's really a way of life that you adopt to
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: say your children, it's tax season and by now I
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: know we're all a little tired of numbers, but here's
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: an important number you need to hear. Sixteen point five
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: billion dollars. That's how much money and refunds the IRS
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: flagged for possible identity fraud last year. Here's another number,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: twenty percent. That's the overall increase in identity theft related
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: tax fraud in twenty twenty four alone. But it's not
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: all bad news. Here's a good number. One hundred million.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: That's how many data points LifeLock monitors every single second.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: If your identity stolen, Lifelocks US based restoration specialists will
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: fix it, backed by another good number, the million dollar
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: protection package. In fact, restorations guaranteed or your money back.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: Don't face identity theft in financial losses alone. Their strength
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: in numbers with LifeLock identity theft protection for tax season
• 24:36
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• 24:39
  Speaker 1: your first year. Call one eight hundred LifeLock and use
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Primo code Nancy or go to LifeLock dot com slash
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Nancy for forty percent off. Terms apply. Thank you LifeLock
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: for being our partner. Can I ask you a question
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: about Polly, because in my mind, Polly is so much
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: more now than just a little girl. Polly symbolizes everything
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: good and little girls and boys, and it has galvanized
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: through your story. Polly's story has galvanized the crime fighting
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: community in a way. I don't know if you see
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: it in a different way, but in a way you
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: may not understand. Polly class is a name that is
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: on all of our minds. But I've never learned what
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Polly was like as a child. I've never known that.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Well, I do understand what you're saying, and I know
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: that she was the arbiter of a lot of change.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: But Polly was a little girl. I mean, it's like
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: your little girl, just a beautiful little kid who was
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: happy and full of life. She loved performing arts. She
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: was a wonderful little actress in that that's why her
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: friends thought that she was just trying to demonstrate her
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: acting chops, when in fact she was being kidnapped by
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: this guy. She was a little musician. She played the
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: clarinet and the piano, and she was at a point
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: in her life at twelve years old, close to thirteen,
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: where she was starting to realize her own potential and
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: understand that she could be an individual with her own
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: thoughts and her own direction in life, and that was
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: the place where she was at the year before I
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: had taught her how to swim, and she was turning
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: into a wonderful little swimmer. We were at that time
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: playing baseball. She wanted to play ball with the boys,
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: so we were shagging balls together and then moving in
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: this direction so that she could realize her potential as
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: an individual and move forward in life. She loved to sing,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: she was happy, she was sweet, she was pretty, and
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: she was the love of my life.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being with us here in
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: our home. Joining me now in addition to my longtime
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: friend and colleague Mark Class, special guest Francy Haiks, the
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: first national Coordinator of child exploitation Prevention and interdiction for
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: the entire country. Also with me investigative journalist Marlena Schaivo. Ladies,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: thank you for being Winnes. And you know, I know
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: you heard Mark's story, Polly's story and what we can
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: take from that and how we can use that knowledge.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: But I want to address the case of nine year
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: old Jessica Lunsford. Now I got to know Jesse's father, Mark,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: and I can still remember him he drove up on
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: a motorcycle. Remember he always drove his motorcycle. And I
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: was on location, Marlne, you remember that, and he got
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: off the motorcycle. We weren't even introduced, and he started crying,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: just crying, and I mean full on crying about Jesse.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Jessica and I always called her the girl in the
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: pink hat because of that beautiful photo of her wearing
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: the pink hat. And that's how I think of her.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: You know, Marlena, you and I were on location in
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: the field at the search area. That's a story that's
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: hard to forget. Refresh, I recollections regarding how Jessica was taken.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: How did she get taken out of the home.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: Well, the whole family went to sleep that night, Nancy,
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: like any other family. And when the morning came, Jesse
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: was no longer in her room.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: And they lived in a very small single dwelling. You know,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: it was very small, and I couldn't imagine how nobody
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: heard anything. So they all go to sleep. Who was
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: in the home.
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: It was Jesse's father, her grandparents, and I believe her
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: little brother.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: You know, I had forgotten the grandparents were there too,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: and same as with Polly. Nobody heard a thing.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: Nobody heard a thing, so immediately they launched your search.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: This search goes on for three full weeks Nancy with
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: no good leads, and then arrest happens all the way
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: up in Savannah, Georgia of a guy named John Evander Cooey,
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: which seems unrelated because it's in Georgia, but it turns
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: out he was living in the same neighborhood as Jesse
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: Lunsford when she went missing, so they brought him in.
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: When they brought him in on an arrest warrant for drugs,
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: they also questioned him about the night that Jesse went
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: in this they let him go.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: They let him go, but really at that time they
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: had no reason to connect him. Here he is with
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: drugs in Savannah, Georgia, and Jesse Jessica goes missing all
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: the way back at homicide of Florida, so they really
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: didn't have a reason to connect him.
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: Well, they asked him about his residence there and he
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: said he was just staying with a relative, So then
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: they got permission from that relative to search the home
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: and it was at that point where they made enough
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: they found enough evidence to make an.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Arrest Now, the thing about the home, it's a small home,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: very small home, and it's a low crime area and
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: it's a very close community. You know, at first, people
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: typically look at the family because the dad's there, maybe
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: the mom's there, the grandparents are there. They didn't hear
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: a thing, and that's kind of hard for people on
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: the outside looking in to accept. So you look naturally
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: at the man in the home. You were not in
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: the home. You were at your home when Polly went
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: missing with her biomem. But that's where they first start.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: The family was pretty much cleared, just like that in
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: the case of Jessica Lunsford, as they should have been.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: And then the police were basically with no clues. So
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: how did somebody get into that home? How did they
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: get her? Was she in the same room with the
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: little brother? Now?
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: And what happened was and unlike some other cases, they
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: got a full confession from John Cooey and he explained
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: and filled in all the holes at about three am.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, if he's to be trusted, but let's just
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: take his story with the box of salt and move forward.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: What does he say.
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: He says at three am he enters the home through
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: an unlocked door, and he said he was just there
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: to burglarize the police, but then he saw Jessica and
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: acted on impulse.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: I don't buy that because I have dealt with ten
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: thousand burglars. There's burglars, and there are people that attack
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: other people. And in this case, you don't go in
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: to commit a burglary and go, oh, there's a little girl.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: I think I'll take her and molester and killer. No,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: that that's not the same thing. And he had a
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: criminal history or comes in. Now you may disagree, and
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: if so, jump in. When a burglar comes into burglarrise
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: and they see a person, they go oh, and they leave.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: They leave. There's plenty of houses to steal the DVD player.
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: Well, burglars don't become sex offenders because they see a child.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: And that he had been staying. As you pointed out
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: more Lena with relatives, as I recall kind of caddy
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: cornered to Jessica o ons for his home sixty five
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: yards sixty five yards and you know every time she
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: came out in that yard to play or ride or
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: by or play with the little brother, he was staring
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: right at her. That is why he went into that home, Marlina, and.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: He's a registered sex defender, by the way, and he
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: said that he did see her playing in the yard
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: and he thought she was about six years old. Not
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: really sure why he gave that information, but yes, you're right, Nancy.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: He went in specifically for her and he brought her
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: back to the home where. You know what's similar right
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: here is that Polly was stalked and watched by her killer.
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: Jessica Lunsford was stalked and watched. This guy was out
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: of town visiting the area. Cooey who murdered Jesse.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: LUNs for the girl in the pink hat was living
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: there with a relative. Stay as they said, stay.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: You know what else is similar? In Polly's case, he said,
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: don't say don't scream. Don't scream, and no one did.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: In Jesse's case, he said, don't say anything, and she didn't,
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: which is the same thing the perps said. And Elizabeth Smart,
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: don't say anything or I'll kill your little sister, I'll
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: hurt your friends.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Don't make a sound. Was it ever confirmed that the
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: door was unlocked.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: It was confirmed, actually the front door was unlocked, and
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: then there was a backscreened in porch which had a slash,
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: so he must have well, we don't know, but there
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: was a slash.
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: And then the door that led to that screened in
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: porch was also unlocked.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: Here's the thing. You have to consider the source when
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Kooey says what happened. But if the family is confirming
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: they had the door unlocked, then it was unlocked. At
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: least he was telling the truth about that much. And
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: I don't want to come down too hard on the
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: family mark class because they had the doorlocked. But I
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: guarantee you if that door had been locked, he wouldn't
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: have gotten in that night anyway.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah about And I think that's a big takeaway, isn't it.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: That's more simple.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Regardless of who you are or where you are, you're vulnerable,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: and you should lock your doors, and you should lock
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: your windows, and you should have good dead bolts, and
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: you should have good latches on the windows. And if
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: you do that, he's not going to get into the house, certainly,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: not without making a lot of noise and letting people know.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: And again, I don't want to trash the parents. I
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: don't want to drag the parents through the mud. I
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: don't want to attack them. I want to learn from
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: what happened. That's what I want to do.
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: There's just no doubt that KOOI would have done what
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: happened in Polly's case, some measure pre surveillance, and this
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: was a planned crime. You don't go into an occupied
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: home where parents are unless you have a relatively secure
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: knowledge that you're going to be able to get in
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: and out. These people don't want to get caught, they
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: want to get in and get out. So I don't
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: doubt at all that he would have planned it. Maybe
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: test did the doors ahead of time other nights to
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: see what was the level of security at this home,
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: and he would have understood it was an easy in
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: for him.
• 36:11
  Speaker 5: He went in for Jessica and he left with her.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Now, at that point, Mark, everything went wrong with the
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: search and how it was conducted. Not really anybody's fault,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: it's just the way it played out. Remember the command
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: center that you pointed out to me earlier explaining the
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: problem with that.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: Well, the command center was put up right on the
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: property itself, so they immediately compromised the crime scene. Immediately.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: They had a lot of officers in and out, shredding
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: the ground. Really, I mean there was really no way
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: to do a viable investigation given the level of a
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: law enforcement presence right at the sport.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Why did that have ruined the possibility of a scent
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: dog a dog?
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: I think so it would have. It would have compromised
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: that as well.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: You bring in volunteers, cops, UH supplies, you put up
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: a tent, you have fax machines, this that making posters
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: right there at the crime scene. If they had brought
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: in the dogs immediately, the dogs would have led them,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: I assumed, straight sixty five yards away to Koohy's place.
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: Wasn't that where she was? Unfortunately, yes, according to the case,
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: he had. He held her for an entire weekend. He
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: brought her, he brought her back to the home, He
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: sexually assaulted her, kept her over night, sexually assaulted her again,
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: and then put her in a closet and told her
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: to stay quiet. What you say to Mark about the
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: about the about the command center is so important, Nancy,
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: because the FBI trained you know this park. The FBI
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: trains to look for children in concentric circles, starting at
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: their home and moving out. If the commands center is
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: interfering with their sort of spatial sense, they don't see
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: these neighbors' houses that are that close because the command
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: center is right there. And even when they did go
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: to his house, they didn't search the way the whole
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: house the way they're taught.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: You hung your head down when she said that.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: Why, well, because listen, local jurisdictions don't know how to
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: deal with these kinds of situations, which I rarely say that, well,
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: which is why I mentioned earlier, what are the things
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: that what are the steps you take? You contact the FBI,
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: you get the FBI involved, because they're not going to
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: allow a command center to be put at ground zero.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: They're just not going to let that happen. They're going
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: to work with the authorities to do a thorough investigation
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: because because they have a protocol, they know how to
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: deal with missing children. They deal with missing children thousands
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: of times a year. Local jurisdictions probably.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Never you know, Mark, to have a registered offender sixty
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: five yards away from your child and nobody knew. Now
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: the sister, Jueye's sister knew, and she had him there
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: and knew he was being exposed to. She had exposed
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: the children, Nancy.
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: She had had him in her home with a two.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Year old living there. So here we've got Jesse Jessica Lunsford,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: the girl in the paint hat, sixty five yards away
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: from her front door. The command center is set up.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: She's right there and she doesn't know to try to
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: get out. She can't get out. She's in the closet, petrified, petrified,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: being molested, over and over and over. Long story short.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: The cops come to the door, to Cooey's door, and
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: what happened.
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: They searched the home, but they didn't go in the
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: room that she was in, is my understanding. I'm not
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: entirely sure why you would search hers. She might not
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: go into now, she was still alive in the closet.
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: So had they gone in the room, had they opened the.
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: Closet door, Jesse Lunford would Lunsford would be alive today, Nancy.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: And the mode of death of that child has haunted me,
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: has stayed with me forever. She was actually buried alive.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: He coaxed her.
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: Into a plastic bag, saying that he was going to
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: transport her home that way. So she gets in the
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: bag and he.
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: Digs a two and a half foot grave, throws her
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: in there and buries her when they found her. When
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: they found the remains, they saw holes where she tried
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: to get air through the bag by.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Poking a hole. How near the home was she buried?
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: She was right there, I like, basically out his front
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: door exactly. It wasn't far at all. On my understanding,
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: Marida cases that once the police came to the door,
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: that's when it clipped in his mind.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: I came to kill her.
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: I'm going to kill her, and so overnight that's when
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: he digs a hole and buries her alive.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: There's so many red bells of alarm here, just flags
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: waving up what went wrong? Mark? Is the home scenario.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: There were no prior beatings or child abuse or malnourishment,
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: nothing like that within their home. They left the door locked.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: They had a registered sex offender living sixty five yards away,
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: and they didn't know, and then the scene was compromised.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: I still have never understood why tracker dogs did not
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: find her sixty five yards away. I mean they can
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: go all the way from Lacy Peterson's home down the
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: highway to the Stanfrancesco Bay or she was disposed, she
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: and her unborn child. Why couldn't they find Jesse lanes
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: for sixty five yards away.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: There were too many sins, There were too many people
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: in the area.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: So another thing is to maintain the scene. I preserve
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: the scene well.
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: And for parents, as a parent, you absolutely have to
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: know who lives in your neighborhood or in neighborhoods here.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: You can't go to the next door neighbor and go ps,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: are you a registered charl a sex offender?
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: You mean this case? You're right, Sorena, this case you
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: would he didn't live there. The Sex Offender Registration and
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: Notification Act is supposed to account for that. Every state
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: in this country is mandated to have a sex offender
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: registry by zip code. You can put in your zip
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: code and see what sex offender?
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: Don't you have that on the class website?
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: Where were the first ones to do that?
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it is now. I have it on crime
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: online dot Com and I got it. I got the
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: idea from you. Does that work? She's absolutely right? How
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: does it work?
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Well, it's Megan's law. It's after another tragedy of a
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: little girl who was taken by somebody in the neighborhood.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: Orpe said. The three year old little girl was flirting
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: with him.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, Jesse Timendiquas was that character's name.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: What Megan's Law in fact, does a couple of things.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: That mandates that law enforcement has to put a public
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: registry up and it also mandates that if you are
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: a registered sex offender, you need to register with your
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: local sheriff within just a couple of days I think
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: generally two or three days of being released from confinement,
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: so that they can then make that information available to
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: people in the neighborhood like us, like us, so that
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: you will be able to get an idea of those
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: known predators or those known risks within your city.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: You really rely on the predator to register himself.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: Well, it depends on what the penalties for non compliance are.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: If the penalty for non compliance is going back to
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: the joint, then absolutely they're going to register.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: How do you get somebody like Kooey who goes and
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: stays with his sister for a period of time he's
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: out of his zip code.
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: Well, he was violating federal law and federal prosecutes. I
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: prosecute these cases myself in federal court. They called failure
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: to register cases. If they fail to register and they
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: get caught that's the point, though they have to be caught.
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: That is a federal felony that carries a strong penalty.
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: And Koohey was in violation because what he didn't inform
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: his local sheriff now he had what was residing there.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: I get it, and Franci, you're absolutely right. But what
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: can a regular person do to discover a registered sex
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: offender is sixty five yards from their front door?
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: You have to go to the National Sex Offender Registrate
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: and put in your ZIP code and hope and hope
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: and hope that all our ender's a run it. But
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: I think it's important to note, Nancy that while there
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: are some eight hundred thousand registered sex offenders right now,
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: we I know that child sexual abuse is massively underreported,
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: so there's lots of sex offenders that aren't registered.
• 45:06
  Speaker 5: So don't take that as the end all.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Beef ye Acui ac centator the lot's register, but had
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: gone out of his zip codes, right.
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: But you could also say, because you don't know and
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: you're not going to be able to track every sex predator,
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: those are the safety tips that you're talking about, Nancy,
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: about taking precautions within your home because you don't know
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: who's around, because even if someone isn't living in your neighborhood,
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: someone could be passing by taking notes of your child.
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: When all I'm back around.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: Right with Polly. He didn't live there, but he was
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: stalking Polly even though he didn't live in the neighborhood.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: I'm referring to Davis. I want to move from just
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: goings for the girl in the paint hat to Dylan
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: and Shasta Groenie. Dylan and Shasta Gronie is a case
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: I remember, there was one of the worst cases I
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: have ever investigated or covered. In that case, as I recall,
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: it was in Cordalaine, Idaho, and I recall it was
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: in a very rural area, which reminded me a lot
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: of where I grew up. And the purp in that
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: case was totally unconnected to the family. For instance, in
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: Polly's case, Davis had been hanging around the area and stalking,
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: not really a connection but a tinuous connection. In Jesse's
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: Jesse Lunfer's case, he was living in the neighborhood with
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: his sister. In this case, Dylan is Shasta Grone. There
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: was no connection what happened, So.
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: Dylan Shaster growny where in Cordelaine, Idaho, one of those
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: idyllic communities.
• 46:44
  Speaker 5: I've been there.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: It's a beautiful place, rural.
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: Lots of trees and land, and they had an above
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: ground point.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: When you fly over it all you see your tree.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: It's a beautiful place and the Lake Cordelaine is gorgeous.
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: So they have an above ground pool.
• 47:00
  Speaker 5: In their yard.
• 47:01
  Speaker 4: And there's an interstate that runs so that if you're
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: driving on the interstate and you happen to be glancing
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: to the side, you can see the above ground pool.
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: And the offender in this case was doing just that,
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: driving on the interstate, and he saw eight year old
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: Shasta Groni inner bathing suit, playing in the pool, and
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: it was then that he said to himself, I'm going
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: to take her. And he spent a significant amount of
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: time surveiling that family, which consisted of eight year old Shasta,
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: nine year old Dylan, their thirteen year old brother, their mother,
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: and a stepfather, and he decided.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: All those people, all those people, but.
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: That did not dissuade him from his desire to take
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: Shasta and to take Dylan, they were only a year apart.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: Did he want Shasta and took Dylan just because as
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: he want both of them. Well, his statements are not great.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: We can't trust anything that he said. We have a
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: lot of information from Shasta who survived, and it was
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: very clear that when he broke into the house to
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: murder some members of her family, he removed Shasta and
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: Dylan only took them outside and then killed the older
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: brother and the parents in the house with Dylan and
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: Shasta outside and then took them. I mean, Mark, does
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: it seem to you as as if it is you want,
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: you covet that which you see. If he hadn't happened
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: to see them, this would never have happened.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: It would have happened to somebody else, it would You're right,
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: that's what would have happened. And I think that's the
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: commonality between the three cases that we've talked about. We're
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: talking about, for want of better terminology, sexually sadistic psychopaths
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: that really could care less about what happens to anybody.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: And none of these people because they all had histories,
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: they all had histories that were about sexually motivated crimes.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: None of these characters should have been on the street.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: They all should have been in prison. They all should
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: have we should have been protected from each and every
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: one of these individuals, but they were on the street.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: It's a failure of government, it's a failure of the
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: criminal justice system.
• 49:14
  Speaker 4: Well, and this offender, while he didn't have any prior
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: convictions like that, the prosecutors have always suspected that he
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: is a serial killer and that there are multiple missing
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: young children that they think he is the one who
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: committed the offenses that murdered iifty lived near Dylan and Shasta.
• 49:34
  Speaker 4: He lived in Montana somewhere, and they were in Idaho.
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: They're right next to each other, so there's a lot
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: of people that work across the state borders. And then
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: he took Dylan and Shasta to a very remote area
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: in Montana and you know, pitched a camp where he
• 49:49
  Speaker 4: held them for weeks, torturing the children. And authorities think
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: he had that was not the first time.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: Now I'm just sitting here listening, and you do not
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: graduate from zero to having an encampment solely for the
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: purpose of torturing children. That doesn't happen that way. There
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: had to be something between zero and one twenty mph.
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: Well, he had a computer that was full of encrypted files.
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: He had lots of child pornography. It's one of the
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: commonalities in these offenders. They almost always have a collection
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: of child pornography because that is where their sexual interest is.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: So explain to me, Now I know how he Duncan
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: finds his target, Dylan and Shasta grone. He sees Shasta
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: playing in an above ground pool from the inner state.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: There's no way the family could have seen that coming.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: Now he stakes out the home, which is in the
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: middle of a rural, very idyllic area, and he watches
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: them unknown to them. That's right. How does he get in?
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: He just walks in. The house is not secured because
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: they're all there. It's not a high crime area. There's
• 51:03
  Speaker 4: virtually no crime. They had no reason to feel that
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: they were on telling you.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: That's something, Francy haiks. If I am in this home,
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: the doors are locked. It's a simple amount of turning it.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: If the children are here. They've locked me out many
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: times because it's second nature. They lock the door when
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: they come in. When I come in, I turn on
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: the alarm, not this motion sensor, the other alarm. So
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: if a window is broken or a door opens, the.
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: Alarm goes off.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: It's second nature.
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: There's more of a reason to have your alarm because
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: you're there. But you and I have been in crime
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: for decades.
• 51:44
  Speaker 5: We are cynical, we are experienced.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: We view the world.
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: Through that lens.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: The grownies didn't view the world. I don't expect people
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: to live in fear or living or make their home
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: a fortress, but I want to from what happened. Yes,
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: so they're all home. It's the mother, the steps, father,
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: the thirteen year old brother, dal Dylan, and sat.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: Was there?
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: A grandparent died there, not that I'm aware of. Five people.
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: Yes, cats, dogs, not that I'm aware.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: Forget the cat. They don't they they're not a help dog.
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: No dog if there was one, I didn't hear about it.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: Was there a dog and I wouldn't Polly, No, there wasn't.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: So he just walks right in. Were they asleep? Not
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: that they were watching TV?
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: They were watching TV, which I think is probably why
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: the house was unsecured.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: It hadn't even gone to bed yet. Why did he
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: think he could do this with all the people home awake?
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: You know, I think he had ultimately because I think
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: it wasn't his first time, so This is a very
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: to me, this is also a very personal, rage filled
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: kind of crime. There's nothing clinical about what he did.
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: This is, to Mark's point, a true psychopath with no feelings,
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: but who enjoys the torture and the brutality, and that's
• 52:59
  Speaker 4: what makes them so dangerous.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: And then he takes the children in this encampment. How
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: far away, oh, just an hour or two, not far
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: about sixty five miles seventy miles away. The children did
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: not have a cell phone, definitely not, and there was
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: no way to track them.
• 53:15
  Speaker 4: No, they just vanished. And of course it was there
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: was a period of time, there was a lagging period
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: of time when someone discovered the bodies to even start
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: looking for Dylan and Chafts.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: You know, that's really important, Mark, when I find out
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: generally a timeline. That's why I really like to start
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: is a timeline. That's just the way I do it,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: because I like to factor. And they've been gone five hours,
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: then they've been gone three hundred, they've gone three hundred
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: miles maybe sixty times five sixty miles an hour. Whether
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: that's correct or not, that's just the way I tabulate
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: the timeline. In this case, how much time passed before
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: police seemed to realize anything had.
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: Happened, hours and hours, hours and hours, because it wasn't
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: until the next day.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: This is that that.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Well, that means that your umbrella first of all, that
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: means that your umbrella is vast. That they could be
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: almost anywhere. If it's five or six hours, five times
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: sixty is what two hundred and fifty miles.
• 54:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we never found them to that point.
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: Searchers never found those children.
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: And the way, do you remember, Marlena, We went over
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: and over and over this, and now when I see
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: this video, it's still I can hardly stand to look
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: at it. He molests Dylan and Shasta over and over
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: and over. Shasta is forced to be in the room
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: while he molested Dylan. For some reason, he kills Dylan.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: Why did he kill Dylan?
• 54:41
  Speaker 4: Shasta says that there was an accidental shot. I have
• 54:46
  Speaker 4: heard the audio tape that the offender recorded a video
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: and audio of multiple times that he tortured Dylan. He
• 54:55
  Speaker 4: recorded it for his own viewing enjoyment later. This was
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: a really evil person. You just have to use the
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: word evil. And I have heard the recording and I
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: Shasta thinks the first shot was an accident, and that's
• 55:09
  Speaker 4: what she recalls, according to what I've heard, the worst
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: thing I've ever heard. It was not an accident. And
• 55:16
  Speaker 4: you know that you can go so far overboard, and
• 55:18
  Speaker 4: I'm just not going to describe the details. But the
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: offender recorded his repeated torture and what was in effect,
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: his constantly many killing Dylan and bringing him back to
• 55:31
  Speaker 4: life using CPR and then doing it again. He was
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: a true psychopathic torture. There's just no way around it.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: Let me move past that, if I can mentally move
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: past that, they cause Dylan is dead and he Duncan,
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: Joseph Edward Duncan brings Shasta into a convenience store, like
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: at a gas store, gas station, and they are actually
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: walking around and she's following him, and you can see
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: she's very withdrawn, she's completely detached, but she's not trying
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: to run. And that has been brought up a million
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: times why a child will not run away from the kidnapper.
• 56:22
  Speaker 5: Because he seems like God to her.
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: He had ultimate power. He had mut her know that
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: I would light him with God, maybe Satan, but with
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: entire power over her, and fear she's a child, she's
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: so beaten down and has been beaten and tortured for
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: so long. She's eight years old, and they're seen walking
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: through the gas station on video surveillance.
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, and we're not talking about this case,
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: but you know they use this intimidation a lot of times,
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: these captors, you know, they intimidate them, scare them into silence.
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: Like in the case of Seorn Hornback, he was free
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: to walk around the complex, he had a self phone
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: at one point, he was allowed to date.
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: He had all these options to escape.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: And never did.
• 57:05
  Speaker 4: It's the psychological fear and oppression and just the power
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: that they have over these kids because they're so impressionable,
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: they're so young, and their whole psyche has been destroyed.
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: So they're in a convenience store.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: Of what happens.
• 57:19
  Speaker 4: The clerk recognizes Shasta because she's saying for weeks on
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: a miracle and there's been a lot of press about it,
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: and she recognized Shasta and she calls the police.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: Well, I know that even in your own home with
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: a television on at what ten o'clock at night, that
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: you need to have safety precautions in place. It's not
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: this case is being highlighted specifically because the family was
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: not asleep. Always everybody's asleep, they don't hear anything. In
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: this case, they were all up together watch a TV
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: like we do every night, trying to find something on
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: TV that children can watch. Is when the devil comes
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: into their home and ruins their lives.
• 58:05
  Speaker 4: You have to secure your own You have to have
• 58:07
  Speaker 4: a dog. You should have an alarm system. If your
• 58:10
  Speaker 4: kids are allergic, you've got to find a way.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: Oh and that reminds me of something. You know. People
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: hear the word alarm system and they think thousands and
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: thousands and thousands. That's not true. The more get one
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: that you put in your cell for like ninety nine dollars,
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: and it's so worth it.
• 58:29
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 58:29
  Speaker 5: I bought a pet cam recently.
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: It costs forty nine dollars to have this pet cam,
• 58:35
  Speaker 4: and I've got an app on my phone, so it's
• 58:38
  Speaker 4: completely free based on my internet or my cell service.
• 58:41
  Speaker 5: And it's a motion detecting camera.
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: Anytime anything including my animals, walk by it, I get
• 58:46
  Speaker 4: an alert on my phone. It costs forty nine dollars.
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: We are not here to sell anything. There are many
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: many home alarm systems out there on the market. I
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: don't care which one you get, just get one and
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: when you're home turned it on. Yes, that means whenever
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: you let the dog out, or a child goes out,
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: or you go out, it's gonna go off. You know
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: what that means. You have to get up and punch it,
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: by it and turn it off. That's all it means.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: When I think back about how many crimes could have
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: been avoided if there had been an alarm, or if
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: the door had been locked. But it's all would it,
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: could have, should have. That is a takeaway that I
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: get from Dylan and Shasta Grownee. Then there is Danielle
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: Van Dam. And you know what I think of Marline
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: that you and I traveled to California to investigate, that
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: we covered that day after day after day, and what
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: I remember is the Mickey mouse earring. The Mickey mouse
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: earring she lost one, and Danielle's body was so decomposed
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: by the time they found her. They identify her by
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: her Mickey Mouse earrings she was still wearing. And that
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: case has stuck with me forever. Mark, this is practically
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: in your backyard in California. Danielle van Damp, beautiful little
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: girl eight nine years old at home with her parents
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: that night. The mom had been out with friends. She
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: had had a couple of drinks. She comes back, the
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: dad was at home. What went wrong?
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: They left the sliding door unlocked.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: Even sliding doors sliding left the problem. Sure, there's so
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: easy even I can get into a sliding glass door. Yeah,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: what's the problem with sliding glass doors.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know that there's any specific problem with
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: sliding glass or is it. That's except that they're not
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: being secured.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: That that's all it is.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 5: No dead bolt on a slide Yeah, I.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: Mean you could jack into a sliding glass door just
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 5: We should have a bar.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the bar that comes down is there at option.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: A bar, even a piece of wood, anything that's holding it.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: But I can tell you this, mart Lena. If the
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: sliding glass door is a jar or unlocked, I promise
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: you they did not think to put the bar down
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: in the bottom. Yeah, because that's another step to go through.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: So that night, the mom and dad are there. They
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: really been attacked because they had been drinking and partying
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: that night. But they came home. They were together.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: She came home, he was at home.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: A Yeah, so you were jumping in.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 4: Oh, I was just going to say that, Yes, the
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: father was home with with with Dan Danielle that evening
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 4: and she had gone to bed, and the mother had
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 4: come home from being out that night and brought home
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: a bunch of friends.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: So friends came from the bar home, and when she
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: went missing, they were immediately under suspicion. They had nothing
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: to do with it. How did the purp get into
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: the home? It was an open sliding glass door. Were
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: they still awake or were they all sleep when he
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: came in? David Westerfield, they were asleep by that time.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: They were asleep by that And first, so they're out
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: at a bar, the dad is at home. How does
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: he get into the home?
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: Well, well, the mom is still at the bar. The perpetrator, Westerfield, come,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: He sees her at the bar. He sees her at
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: the bar, absolutely.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: Recognizes her because he's a.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: Neighbor, knows exactly who she is. He comes home, he
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: goes through their backs.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: He's out, so he's who's at home with the kids,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: and where's dad?
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: Wondering all those things? Maybe maybe not, but he used
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: that opportunity to get through the sliding glass door, go
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: up into Danielle's bedroom, at which point mom came home.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: So he's up there hiding when the mother comes home.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: That's exactly right. He's up there hiding when the mother
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: comes home.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: She has no idea. Nope, did she check on I
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: don't know, Danielle. It wouldn't matter though, because when you
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: check on your child, you look to see if they're
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: in their bed, if they're breathing, and shut the door
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: and leave. You don't think, Wow, could somebody be hiding
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: in the closet, right, She wouldn't have thought to check
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: there anyway. So he hides in the closet until the
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: friends party and then leave and everybody goes to bed.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: He's in there for hours.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: Maybe, and then what happens, Well, then he kikes a
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: little girl and she disappears for the next what several weeks?
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: Weeks weeks, and I remember the Santa Anna wind came
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: up and it made the search so much more difficult,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: and finally she was found. The neighbor, who I believe
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: was an engineer, David Westerfield, who seemingly was a normal guy.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: Didn't he have grown children and he had a beautiful
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: home in their neighborhood, big yard with a giant RV
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: parked in the yard, and that is where the murder occurred.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: In the r V, no one would have ever suspected
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: David Westerfield.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: Oh, he wasn't a registered sex offender. He didn't frighten
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 4: people because he looked normal. And I think that's what
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 4: it's really important for people to understand. That's someone who
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 4: wants to take your child may be your neighbor, or
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 4: your best friend, or your cousin, or someone you know,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 4: or someone that looks like they belong And that's how
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 4: these sophisticated offenders like Westerfield operate. Not only did he
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 4: look like he belonged in the neighborhood, he did belong
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 4: in the neighbor who was a neighbor. He was a neighbor,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 4: married neighbor, married neighbor with two kids and no criminal record.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 4: How do you crack Mary an egg.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: Neighbor, two children, no criminal record that they were grown
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: though grown children, mananteens are grown Yeah, grown adult children.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: I will never forget that wanted post. I mean that
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: search poster, that missing poster for Daniel van dam So
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: our takeaway here neighbor not a sex registered sex predator upstanding,
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: married with children. Now why it doesn't strike me? I mean,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: this is anecdotal, but I just you don't suspect a
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: married man with children he's your next door neighbor to
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: be the guy that sneaks in and hides in the
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: closet and murders your child.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: You suspect Chester the molester. I mean, people have it
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: in their minds that it's going to be some grony
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: old dude as all of these characters we've talked about
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: wearing a trench coat and hiding behind the bush, When
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: the reality is is that the majority of these characters
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: are individuals who who use their professional or volunteer activities
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: to get into positions that give them unsupervised access to
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: your children so that they can then get that access
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: and start grooming your children and then have their way.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: And we hear about it all the time, whether they're past,
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: whether they're scout leaders, whether they're involved in youth sports,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: they're just there. They seem normal. Nobody has any idea
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: what's going on until the damage has been done, and
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: that damage can be severe.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 4: No, and Nancy, I've prosecuted thousands of offenders, sex offenders.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 4: I've only prosecuted one Chester than the lester. His name
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 4: was actually Chester, and he looked like Koy and some
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: of these other offenders.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: But they are the exception.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 4: The rule in my experience is they look like Westerfield.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: What can I learn? What roleina?
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, and you know Danielle lived in the
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: neighborhood with this guy and now here he is in
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: her bedroom. You can imagine how confused she was. Now
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: we keep talking about locked doors, right, and even if
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 3: they lock the door every night, and then you know,
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: he finds another way in.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: Is there something to say about talking to.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: Your children about when they come in contact with some
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 3: of these people who do say don't scream or don't
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: say anything.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: Is there a.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: Method or something to teach the child like you don't
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: have to go and you don't worry about what they say,
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 3: or some sort of formula to or something to arm
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: your children with something like this happened.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: I believe the answer to that is yes, absolutely, And
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: I think that parents have to have these conversations with
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: children from an early age on and they have to
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: be age appropriate. But I think the critical thing about
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: these conversations is they can't be fair based conversations. They
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: have to be learning experiences for the children. You have
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: to tell the children that not everybody's a good person,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: that you don't obey all adults all the time, which
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: I think is probably a commonality with all of these cases,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: that in fact, there are things that you can do
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: that you don't want to leave with somebody. That if
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: you're feeling your gut tells you something is wrong, then
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: you have to act on that and you have to
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: do something about it. But I think it's when you
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: make it a fair based conversation that everything gets turned
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: off that the kids don't want to listen to it,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: parents don't want to talk about it, and they lose
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: the opportunity, and the result can be tragical.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 4: And that's what parents say, is they say, I don't
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 4: want to frighten my child. That's why you don't have
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 4: a conversation. That you don't make a big deal out
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: of it. We need to have a conversation, let's sit
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 4: down and talk instead. You make it part of everyday life.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 4: Every month or every couple of weeks, you talk about
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 4: if someone makes you feel uncomfortable, you know you can
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 4: tell mommy, right, we don't have any secrets right, and
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 4: if someone does something you don't like, you can yell out.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 4: You should shout for help if you need help, and
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 4: these conversations you have to have.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: I like to say that kids.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 4: Are their own first best defense against victimization. I'm not
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 4: blaming the child and putting responsibility on them at all,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 4: but you have to arm them.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: Coming home impaired and not checking the doors, the locks,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: the sliding glass door. I still don't quite understand how
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: he could get in. I wonder if the dad was
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: already asleep and all those hours pass and no one
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: knows he's in the home. And the takeaway of a
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: neighbor who seems to be normal and upstanding, who doesn't
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: fit our stereotide of a sex offender, which leads me
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: to Haley Cummings, a little girl in Satsuom of Florida
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: who goes missing and to this day has never been found.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: Also concerning me, there is what went wrong and what
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: can I learn from it?
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: Right, So, like you said, Haley Cummings, it's a normal
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 4: February night, she goes to bed. She's at home with
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 4: her father's seventeen year old girlfriend who was living in
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 4: the home at the time her father went to work.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 4: He worked the night shift as a crane operator. Miss
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 4: d Croslin, the girlfriend. The seventeen year old girlfriend.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 3: Says she put the kids to bed at eight thirty
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: at night, and she herself went to bed at ten.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: At some point in the middle of the night, she
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 3: gets up to go to the bathroom, says she notices
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: that a light is on in the kitchen and that
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 3: the back door is propped open with a cinderblock. Goes
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: back in the bedroom to see that Haley is gone.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: Right there, a seventeen year old in charge overnight to
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: me problem overnight. On the other hand, working parents, parents
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: that have to go out of town, you think you
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: could leave the children with a babysitter. But in this case,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: she was, by her own words, dead to the world
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: when the prop comes in to get Haley. Also, evidence
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: has emerged since that time she had people over partying
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: at the home while the dad was out working. The
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: seventeen year old in charge of the children had people
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: partying at the home the dad didn't know about. That's
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: a big problem.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: That is a big problem, and she never initiated initially
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: told the investigators that story. Of course, why would she
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: but there were a few stories that started flying around
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: about Misty and she she herself came up with a
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 3: story a year later about her cousin coming to the
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: door with her brother and they had a beef with
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: her her boyfriend.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 4: Ronald you know, and that you know, they came to
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 4: the house looking for him and looking for something he
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 4: had of theirs, and then took Haley in the process.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 3: It seems unlikely, and none of these things have been
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: really substantiated, because Nisty was the only one in the
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: home when the crime took place.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: But what we do know is a strong likelihood that
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: other people were allowed in the home while the father,
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: the parent, the guardian was away. Correct, he had no
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: knowledge of that.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 4: He had no knowledge.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: So that opens up a whole Pandora's box about who
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: comes in your home with your knowledge or without it.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: That's my takeaway on Haley Cummings, which leads me to
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: Samantha Runian. And the reason Samantha Runyan's kidnap and murder
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: has stuck in my mind is because nobody did anything wrong.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: There was not an intruder, nobody left the door a lot,
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: there wasn't a guest in the home that you didn't know.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: There wasn't a sex offender sixty five yards away that
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: you didn't find out about. The scene wasn't contaminated. Samantha Runyon,
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: a five year old little girl was in the front yard.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: Her grandma had come in. I was at the kitchen window.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: I recalled there was another child playing in the front
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: yard as well. She wasn't alone. And the perp, Alejandro Avola,
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: drives up, gets her in the car, leaves. It's over.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: It's over, Just like that. They were in the front
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: yard alone. I think less than twenty minutes.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 3: They were playing in the front yard, and like you said,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 3: Avela rolls up and what does he say?
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 4: I lost my puppy. He's drawing her in. She's five
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 4: years old, and she gets close enough he snatches her up.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 4: She screamed and said tell my grandmother, but it was
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 4: just too late. He sped off.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: Getting close to the car is a whole another can
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: of worms, because what's the child is ten feet fifteen
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: feet from the car. It's over. They're grabbed by the
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: arm and yanked in the car and the car has
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: gone at sixty mph. It's done. It don't deal the
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: front yard right there in the front yard of the
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: home with Grandma who'd been out in the front yard
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: playing with them. She goes in, it happens.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: What can I do with that, Mark, Well, motify the police.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, like you said earlier, right, and like you
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: said earlier, it's sixty sixty miles an hour. I mean,
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: that's how quickly they can get away. You notify law
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: enforcement immediately, and they're going to be able to contain
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: an area if they have a plan in place, that's
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: what they're going to be able to do. What do
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: they do. Don't leave your child outside alone, even for
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: a minute, even for five minutes, even for a minute.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: And another thing I've thought about is not having a fence.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: You know, you go in neighborhoods and it may not
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: be feasible for people to have a fence. But if
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: there had been a fence with a gate, would that
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: have stopped him? Maybe, but maybe not. You'd have to
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: get over the fence, you have to do the gate,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: you have to wiggle with the child. It would have
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: been one more barrier for a perp to scale.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 4: But like Mark said, the ultimate barrier is don't leave
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 4: them outside if you have to go to the bathroom
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 4: say I'm really sorry. I know you're playing. Just come
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 4: in for a minute. I have to go. That's what
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 4: I do with my daughter. They don't like it, but
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 4: it's the safest thing to do. You close the door
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 4: behind you and then when you're done, you go back
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 4: out with your.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: Kids and you fancy.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: Her parents didn't have the power to build a fancy.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: They lived. They lived in a condo community. There's hoa
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: rules and rescriptions.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: And they couldn't. It's it was not feasible for them
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: to have a fence. They couldn't. Even if they had
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: wanted to, it would have violated the U community agreement.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: They could not have done that. So, Britt, it's good
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: good in anything people can do to avoid the runion scenario.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: Semantha runion and in that case, Samantha was killed quickly.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: She was killed quickly. Let's back it up and think
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: for a moment, if Samantha had had some kind of
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: a GPS device on her, maybe something as simple as
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: a cell phone, maybe one of the other devices that
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: are so readily available now at Franks at a good cost.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: That you can army, that that you can ae that
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: you can arm your children with and in the worst
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: case scenario, be able to be able to attract them.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 4: They better to hide it, though, because I'm sure criminals
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 4: will get onto what that bracelet looks like.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: Yes, some do. Some.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 4: The Runion case, though, certainly makes an argument for having it,
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 4: just like a case I prosecuted not fifteen miles from
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 4: where we sit right now, Nancy, where someone just like
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 4: Samantha snatched a five year old girl in an apartment
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 4: complex where she was played with a dozen other children,
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 4: took her by car, and it didn't end well for anyone.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 4: The child did live in a particular case, but no chip.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 4: The parents called the police right away. They did everything
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 4: they were supposed to do. They didn't do anything wrong
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 4: except be inside their apartment where they could see the
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 4: child instead of outside of the apartment where.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 5: They were closed.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: You know. A case that has also disturbed me is
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: a mom a beautiful nineteen month old little boy, Lincoln,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: so she thinks she's found her dream man. He's a dentist,
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: a very successful dentist, and she's impressed by his education,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: by his money, by he treats her like a queen. Well,
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: he killed the baby. He killed Lincoln and it's caught
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: on camera on her nanny cam. Now how she didn't
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: know who he really was, a married father of several children,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: still married in a you know, several miles away, which
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: was on Facebook. She didn't know she was in love.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: She's a working mom. She went through a lot giving
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: birth to Lincoln. He had a lot of health issues,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: but he was coming through. He was at the end
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: of the child and the light was there and he
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: was getting well. The baby was on the floor.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 4: What happened, Well, the baby was on the floor and
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 4: the mother was upstairs. So here the man you're talking about,
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 4: this thirty five year old dentisis downstairs with Lincoln and
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 4: you could see on the nanny cam his.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: Bert Lewis a Tulsa dentist. That's who he is.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 4: Bert Franklin.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, Bert Franklin, a tuls A dentist, correct, who,
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 3: like you said, was still married with four children.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: But we'll put that aside.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 3: So he goes into the living room, puts little Lincoln
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 3: on the floor, gives him a bottle. Do you see
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 3: a kicking motion, because you see the top of his body,
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 3: you see a kicking motion. He comes back in with
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 3: the baby in his arms, limp grabs a piece of pizza,
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 3: walks back out, and then seemingly slams Lincoln's head into
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 3: the floor. Now, the mom hears noises downstairs, calls down
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: to her wonderful boyfriend and he says, I was throwing
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 3: a ball to the dog. She comes down the steps,
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 3: she sees her baby laying on the couch with pillows
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 3: around him, and the boyfriend says he's sleeping. Don't disturb him.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 4: So she says, okay, puts his pacifier on the arm
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 4: rest and walks.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: Away, and then he later died of massive internal entraes. Well.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 3: Yes, later that evening, two am, she hears her son,
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 3: but she thinks he's coughing, is snoring heavily right, but
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 3: when up once she wakes up and she realized it's
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 3: more of a gurgling sound. Nancy so and then his
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 3: eyes are wide open and she can and she's trying
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 3: to give him a bottle and he's just not responsive.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 4: So she rushes him to the hospital. She talked to
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 4: the doctors and they examined him and they said that
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 4: he had suffered a severe injury to the head. So
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 4: she starts racking her brain. She has no idea, she's
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 4: not even thinking about her boyfriend.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 3: And she's like, well, maybe he fell down when he
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 3: was at my aunt's house earlier, and I didn't know
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 3: and they didn't know, you know. And then the doctor said,
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 3: this is no ordinary injury. This is not something that
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 3: someone would get from falling down.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: This is like a car crash that severity.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 3: Exactly later on, like you said, little Lincoln dies and
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 3: the medical examiner comes back with cause of death as
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 3: non accidental blunt force trauma to the head and the
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: manner of death homicide, which led to eventually the surveillance
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 3: video or the nanny cam.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: And where this lace, nay Marlena is the convergence of
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: two major issues, who you bring in your home, who
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: you bring in your home, and the person that seems
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: like a great guy like David Westerfield.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 3: Well, can we just backtrack on that. Bert Franklin was
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 3: a dentist. He was a professional. But he told Lincoln's
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 3: mom that he was separated from the mom but just
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 3: still living under the same roof as her, and they
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 3: had four children together. They were together, they were boyfriend
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 3: and girlfriend for one year and he's still living under
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 3: the same roof with his wife who he's separated with.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 4: That's a red flag right there.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: That's a major red flag.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 4: Beyond a red flag. Well, he's a scumbag, but that
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 4: wouldn't necessarily tell the mother that he's a child killer.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 4: Well I wouldn't.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't be involved with someone who was telling me
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 3: this or a year and stayed living. You know, that's
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: a red flag about who he might be as air person.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 4: She might think, well, he's.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: Lying, a liar. And when you've got a guy lying
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: about something so significant as their children and their own
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: children and themselves, that's a major major problem bringing that
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: person into the home and allowing them access to your child,
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: access to.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 4: That's the problem is she should have never allowed someone
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 4: of low character or of any character that she didn't
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 4: know really really well along with her child.
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: Or you say, Mark, Well, you said that could have
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: been verified on Facebook, right they still he still had
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: a Facebook page of him with photo zoom children and
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: the kids.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, and she, I mean she probably believed what she
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 4: wanted to believe. I mean, there is a thing called
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 4: bed and board, you know, separations where you know people
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 4: can't financially afford a second home and they get legal
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 4: paperwork to say that they're you know, separated but living
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 4: under the same dwelling.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 3: They just you know, there's just parameters in there because
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 3: they're not physically divorced or legally divorced. And she do
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 3: master for that paperwork, but you know what, Mark, even
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 3: if she did ask for that paperwork, that could be
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 3: faked document easily.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 4: It's a piece of paper, you know she was.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is a real issue with single mothers,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: are you know, single mothers of young children are an
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: incredibly vulnerable category of individual and there was a point
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: in time where there were no tools for these women
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: that they had to basically take people on their word.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: But now there are tools. I mean, if you're in
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: a situation like that, if you're like this, like Lincoln's mother,
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: you can go on to Megan's Law and you can
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: find out whether or not the individual that's in your
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: home has any kind of a history. You can go
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: on to Facebook and do some kind of a search
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: on this individual and see exactly who he is and
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: where he comes from. You can even go to law
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: enforcement if you want and verify a criminal history that way.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: Those tools exist now it's not a fail safe. There's
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: no question that children are going to continue to be victimized,
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: but there are steps you can take to mitigate that
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: victimization or the potential for that victimization.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 4: We know from cases child sex offenders hunt for women
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 4: who are not married, who are single mothers, who have
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 4: children of the age that they're sexually interested in, to
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 4: date so that they can get access to the kids.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 5: And Mark's exactly right. There are tools out.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 4: There that you can run sort of your own kind
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 4: of background check on someone, but ultimately, if someone has
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 4: never been caught for a sex offense, you're not going
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 4: to turn anything up. But that does not mean you
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 4: should feel secure that the person you're dating isn't a
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 4: sex offender. You have to take precautions against everyone who
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 4: comes in your home. Bottom line.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: I want to pause just for a moment, because we
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: are extracting from these cases and they're not just stories,
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: they're not just headlines. These are real families, real children
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: who are no longer with us. I want to think
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: about them for a moment. Samantha Runyin, Danielle Van Dam,
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: Jesse Lunsford, Dylan and Shasta Grownee, Lincoln Lewis, Haley Cummings
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: and Polyclass. There's no end to this conversation. There's no
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: end to what we can learn. I want to use
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: that knowledge to arm others, so one innocent person can
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: be kept safe, just one person. If we could save
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: one child, it would be worth it to me. So
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: I want to thank you, Marlene, Francy and Mark. That
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: was a lot of information on being safe at home?
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: How can we boil it down? Can use it? Let's
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: condense it. First of all, keep your home secure at
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: all times. You never know when a predator or intruder
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: may test to your security. First and obvious. Keep your
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: doors locked at all times, including the door in and
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: out of the garage. If you have a sliding glass door,
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: get the bar that adds an extra layer of protection
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: against intruders. Always sleep with windows closed and locked. Get
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: a security system. They don't have to be expensive. There
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: are so many home alarm systems at different prices out
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: there in the market. Set your alarm even when you're home.
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: Remember you and your children are the most important things
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: to protect. Make it second nature. Landscape with security in mind.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: Plant bushes outside the windows, like holly that grows thick
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: and prickly to make it hard for an intruder to
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: enter your home, and clear away potential hiding spots for
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: criminals like bushes, planters, anywhere an intruder could hide in
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: your yard. If you can put a fence around your yard,
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: it's one more barrier that they have to overcome. Put
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: up security cameras, even if they're fake, they will discourage criminals.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: Get a security system that beeps when someone opens or
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: closes a door at your home. Your home must appear
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: occupied at all times. Leave all lights or the radio
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: when you're not there. Install outdoor lighting on a timer
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: or motion sensitive. Do not lead a key under the
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: mat or under a planter. They know that. Find a
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: different place and don't blab about it. Ask any service
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: people for credentials before they come into your home. If
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: a service person is coming to your home, whether it's
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: the cable guy, the phone guy, the repairman, that should
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: have been by appointment, they never just show up. You
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: can barely get an appointment, so you should know when
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: someone's coming to your home ahead of time. If you
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: can hire a house sitter if you're away from home
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: for an extended period of time, or if your absence
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: has unwillingly been publicized, even on social media. Turn the
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: volume down on your phone or even take it off
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: the hook, and a phone that's constantly ringing is assigned
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: to intruders that nobody's home. Do not let your newspapers
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: pie up. It's so easy to make a phone call
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: or even online to stop delivery for a period of time.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: Do not put it out there on social media you're
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: going on vacation. That's like waving a red flag or
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: ringing a red bell of alarm. Hello, I'm gone burglarize
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: my home. Let's talk about your neighborhood. You need to
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: know the risks in your area around your home. You
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: must check the National Sex Offender Registry and know if
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: you have neighbors on that list. Don't take that as
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: the final word. Because sex crimes, especially on children, are
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: mostly underreported. That's why you need to proactively secure your home.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: Before you bring somebody into your home, run a background check,
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: just like you. What a caregiver who will be with
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: your chill. I'm talking about piano teachers, tutors, everybody who
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: walks through that front door. Be careful about how much
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: exposure your child has to non parents and the home.
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: Remember Hally Cummings. Someone who wants to take your child
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: could be your neighbor, your married neighbor, or even a relative.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: They won't look like Chester the molester. They could use
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: their position or their authority to be in a place
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: of power over your child. Don't ever leave your child
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: outside alone. It's so tempting. Don't do it. And here
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: are tips that I don't want to even think about.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: But we have to be prepared for the world. First,
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: hope for the best, be prepared for the worst. Keep
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: a complete and current written description of your child in
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: handwriting and on your phone. Take color photos digital if possible,
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: of your child every six months or more often. If
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: your child appearance is changing. Know where your child's medical
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: and dental records are located and how you can obtain them.
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: Contact local law enforcement. See if they offer fingerprinting for children.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: I did it. If they do, arrange to have the
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: agency to fingerprint your child. Get a DNA sample from
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: your child. If you can arm your child with a
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: GPS enabled device, think something like a smart watch, consider
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: a cell phone. Now, what if your child goes missing
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: from home? Search your home thoroughly. I'm talking about closets,
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: piles of laundry, the dryer, the basement, the storage room,
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: in your cars, under your cars, in and under beds,
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: inside large appliances, anywhere a child could crawl or hide.
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: Contact every law enforcement agency you can think of, and
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: don't rely on one to talk to the other. Immediately
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: call the news desk, the media assignment desk, and let
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: them know you're available on behalf of your child. Call
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: the FBI. Very often, smaller local jurisdictions haven't handled a
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: lot of child abductions, and that is why you must call.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: You must call the FBI. Take to social media. Create
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: a missing child page on Facebook, upload photos, share updates,
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: keep people in aged. It costs you nothing and takes
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: very little time, and the rewards are immeasurable. After you
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: report your child missing to the law, call the National
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: Center for Missing Unexploited Children at one eight hundred the
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: Lost one eight hundred eighty four, three, five, six, seven eight.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: When you call police, provide them with your child's name,
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: date of birth, hike wait, description of any unique identifiers
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: such as eyeglasses or braces, or birthmark, freckles, anything. Tell
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: them when you notice your child for is missing, What
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: clothing your child was wearing and ask them to immediately
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: enter your child's name and identifying information into the FBI's
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: National Crime Information Center Missing Person file. What to tell
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: your child These conversations must be early, and they cannot
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: be fear based. But you have to tell them not
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: everyone is a nice person, or to listen to every
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: adult that's crazy. And make this a part of every
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: day life. I ask my twins all the time. Has
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: anybody grabbed you? Has anybody touched your chest or your
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: rear end or anything else? Has anybody beside me tried
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: to give you a bath? I'd say it in a
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: lighthearted way, but the message is clear, and I ask
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: it several times. I looked at them in the eye
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: and ask them. I've even asked about their babysitters. What
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: about miss Michelle? What about mister Chris? I ask, and
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: I emphasize, Mommy won't be mad, just mommy wants you
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: to be safe. That's not okay. Make this a part
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: of everyday life. Reinforced to them it's okay to tell
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: you and do it on a regular basis, so it's
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: not scary. Children. Kids are their own best defense. You've
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: got to teach them to look both ways when they
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: cross the street, and about other dangers. I know you
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: may not want to talk about it with your children
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: because I don't like it either, But you know what,
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: I really don't like the thought of my child being mistreated, abused,
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: stolen from me, and I will do whatever I have
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: to do to keep that from happening, won't you