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Mega Edition: Bryan Kohberger And The Affidavit That Was Brought Before The Court (10/27/26) · Beyond The Horizon

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. Well, folks,
0:04
Speaker 1: we have the affidavit, and I'm not going to waste
0:07
Speaker 1: anybody's time with any kind of opening here or whinging
0:11
Speaker 1: or anything like that. We're going to get right into
0:13
Speaker 1: this affidavit, and we're going to read it together. I
0:17
Speaker 1: haven't read it yet. We're going to read it together
0:19
Speaker 1: right here for the first time on air without commentary,
0:22
Speaker 1: by the way. And then later on, we'll go through
0:25
Speaker 1: the articles one by one that are dealing with each
0:28
Speaker 1: of these issues. So with that said, let us just
0:31
Speaker 1: get right to it. Exhibit A, Statement of Brett Payne.
0:40
Speaker 1: The below information is provided by Brett Payne, who is
0:43
Speaker 1: a duly appointed, qualified, and acting peace officer within the
0:48
Speaker 1: county of Latah, state of Idaho. Brett Payne is employed
0:51
Speaker 1: by Moscow Police Department in the official capacity or position
0:56
Speaker 1: of corporal. and has been trained and qualified peace officer
1:00
Speaker 1: for approximately four years. Corporal Payne is being assisted by
1:05
Speaker 1: members of the Idaho State Police and agents of the
1:08
Speaker 1: Federal Bureau of Investigation. On November 13, 2022, at approximately
1:15
Speaker 1: 4 p.m., Moscow Police Department Sergeant Blaker and I responded
1:20
Speaker 1: to 1122 King Road, Moscow, Idaho, hereafter the King Road residence,
1:26
Speaker 1: to assist with scene security and processing of a crime
1:29
Speaker 1: scene associated with four homicides. Upon our arrival, the Idaho
1:34
Speaker 1: State Police forensic team was on scene and was preparing
1:38
Speaker 1: to begin processing the scene. MPD officers, Smith, one of
1:43
Speaker 1: the initial responding officers to the incident, advised he would
1:47
Speaker 1: walk me through the scene. OFC Smith and I entered
1:51
Speaker 1: the King Road residence through the bottom floor door on
1:54
Speaker 1: the north side of the building. OFC Smith and I
1:57
Speaker 1: then walked upstairs to the second floor. OFC Smith directed
2:02
Speaker 1: me down the hallway to the west bedroom on the
2:04
Speaker 1: second floor, which, I later learned, through Zanna's driver's license
2:09
Speaker 1: and other personal belongings found in the room, was Zanna Kernodle's. Hereafter,
2:14
Speaker 1: Kernodle's room. Just before this room, there was a bathroom
2:18
Speaker 1: door on the south wall of the hallway. As I
2:21
Speaker 1: approached the room, I could see a body later identified
2:24
Speaker 1: as Kernodle's, laying on the floor. Kernodle was deceased with
2:28
Speaker 1: wounds which appeared to have been caused by an edged weapon.
2:33
Speaker 1: Also in the room was a male later identified as
2:36
Speaker 1: Ethan Chapin, hereafter Chapin. Chapin was also deceased with wounds
2:43
Speaker 1: later determined, autopsy report provided by Spokane, and that is
2:47
Speaker 1: redacted here in this document We have about two pages
2:51
Speaker 1: here that are redacted, so we won't get that obviously
2:55
Speaker 1: in this affidavit just yet. I then followed OFC Smith
3:00
Speaker 1: upstairs to the third floor of the residence. The third
3:02
Speaker 1: floor consisted of two bedrooms and one bathroom. The bathroom
3:06
Speaker 1: on the west side of the floor was later determined
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Speaker 1: to be Kaylee Gonsalves, hereafter Gonsalves' room. I later learned
3:14
Speaker 1: from a review of Officer Nunez's body camera, there was
3:17
Speaker 1: a dog in the room when Moscow police officers initially responded.
3:22
Speaker 1: The dog belonged to Gonsalves and her ex-boyfriend, Jack Decor.
3:27
Speaker 1: I found out from my interview with Jack Decor on
3:29
Speaker 1: November 13, 2022, that he and Gonsalves shared the dog.
3:34
Speaker 1: OFC Smith then pointed out a small bathroom on the
3:37
Speaker 1: east side of the third floor. This bathroom shared a
3:40
Speaker 1: wall with Madison Mogan's, hereafter Mogan's bedroom, which was situated
3:45
Speaker 1: on the southeast corner of the third floor. As I
3:50
Speaker 1: entered this bedroom, I could see two females in one
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Speaker 1: single bed in the room. Both Gonsalves and Mogan were
3:56
Speaker 1: deceased with visible stab wounds. I also later noticed what
4:01
Speaker 1: appeared to be a tan leather knife sheath lying on
4:04
Speaker 1: the bed next to Mogan's right side. When viewed from
4:07
Speaker 1: the door, The sheath was later processed and had KBAR, USMC,
4:12
Speaker 1: and the United States Marine Corps Eagle Globe and anchor
4:15
Speaker 1: insignia stamped on.
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Speaker 2: The outside of it.
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Speaker 1: The Idaho State Lab later located a single source of
4:22
Speaker 1: male DNA suspect profile left on the button snap of
4:26
Speaker 1: the knife sheath. As part of the investigation, numerous interviews
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Speaker 1: were conducted by Moscow Police Department officers, Idaho State Police detectives,
4:36
Speaker 1: and FBI agents. Two of the interviews included BF and DM.
4:42
Speaker 1: Both BF and DM were inside the King Road residence
4:45
Speaker 1: at the time of the homicides and were roommates to
4:47
Speaker 1: the victims. BF's bedroom was located on the east side
4:52
Speaker 1: of the first floor of the King Road residence. Based
4:56
Speaker 1: on numerous interviews conducted by MPD officers, ISP detectives, and
5:01
Speaker 1: FBI agents, as well as my review of evidence, I
5:04
Speaker 1: have learned the following. On the evening of November 12, 2022,
5:12
Speaker 1: Chapin and Kernodle were seen by BF at the Sigma
5:15
Speaker 1: Chi House on the University of Idaho campus at 735
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Speaker 1: Nez Perce Drive from approximately 9 p.m. on November 12
5:23
Speaker 1: to 1.45 a.m. on November 13. BF also estimated that
5:30
Speaker 1: at approximately 1.45 a.m., Chapin and Kernodle returned to the
5:34
Speaker 1: King Road residence. BF also stated, that Chapin did not
5:38
Speaker 1: live in the King Road residence, but was a guest
5:41
Speaker 1: of Kern Odell. Gonsalves and Mogan were at a local bar,
5:45
Speaker 1: The Corner Club, at 202 Main Street in Moscow. Gonsalves
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Speaker 1: and Mogan can be seen on video footage provided by
5:53
Speaker 1: The Corner Club between 10 p.m. on November 12th and 1.30 a.m.
5:57
Speaker 1: on November 13th. At approximately 1.30 a.m., Gonsalves and Mogan
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Speaker 1: can be seen on video at a local food vendor
6:05
Speaker 1: called The Grub Truck. at 318 South Main Street in
6:10
Speaker 1: downtown Moscow. The Grub Truck livestreams video from their food
6:14
Speaker 1: truck on the streaming platform, Twitch, which is available for
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Speaker 1: public viewing, on their website. The video was captured by
6:22
Speaker 1: law enforcement. A private party, name redacted, reported he provided
6:26
Speaker 1: a ride to Gonsalves and Mogan at approximately 1.56 a.m.
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Speaker 1: from downtown Moscow, in front of the Grub Truck, to
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Speaker 1: the King Road residence. DM and BF, those are the
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Speaker 1: surviving roommates, by the way, both made statements during interviews
6:41
Speaker 1: that indicated occupants of the King Road residence were at
6:44
Speaker 1: home by 2 a.m. and asleep or at least in
6:48
Speaker 1: their rooms by approximately 4 a.m. This is with the
6:51
Speaker 1: exception of Kernodle, who received a DoorDash order at the
6:54
Speaker 1: residence at approximately 4 a.m. Law enforcement identified the DoorDash
6:59
Speaker 1: delivery driver who reported this information. DM stated she originally
7:05
Speaker 1: went to sleep in her bedroom on the southeast side
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Speaker 1: of the second floor. DM stated she was awoken at
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Speaker 1: approximately 4 a.m. by what she stated sounded like Gonsalves
7:16
Speaker 1: playing with her dog in one of the upstairs bedrooms,
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Speaker 1: which were located on the third floor. A short time later,
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Speaker 1: DM said she heard who she thought was Gonsalves say
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Speaker 1: something to the effect of there's someone here. A review
7:30
Speaker 1: of records obtained from a forensic download of Kernodle's phone
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Speaker 1: showed this could have been Kernodle as her cellular phone
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Speaker 1: indicated she was likely awake and using the TikTok app
7:41
Speaker 1: at approximately 4.12 a.m. DM stated she opened her door
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Speaker 1: a second time when she heard what she thought was
7:49
Speaker 1: crying coming from Kernodle's room. DM then said she heard
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Speaker 1: a male voice say something to the effect of, it's okay,
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Speaker 1: I'm going to help you. At approximately 4.17 a.m., a
8:00
Speaker 1: security camera located at 1112 King Road, a residence immediately
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Speaker 1: to the northwest of 1122 King Road, picked up distorted
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Speaker 1: audio of what sounded like voices or a whimper followed
8:13
Speaker 1: by a long thud. A dog can also be heard
8:16
Speaker 1: barking numerous times starting at 4.17 a.m. The security camera
8:22
Speaker 1: is less than 50 feet from the west wall of
8:25
Speaker 1: Kernodle's bedrooms. Diem stated she opened her door for the
8:29
Speaker 1: third time after she heard the crying and saw a
8:32
Speaker 1: figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered
8:35
Speaker 1: the person's mouth and nose walking towards her. Diem describes
8:39
Speaker 1: the figure as 5'10 or taller, male, not very muscular,
8:43
Speaker 1: but athletically built with bushy eyebrows. The male walked past
8:47
Speaker 1: Diem as she stood in a frozen, shock phase. The
8:51
Speaker 1: male walked towards the back sliding glass door. DM locked
8:55
Speaker 1: herself in her room after seeing the male. DM did
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Speaker 1: not state that she recognized the male. This leads investigators
9:02
Speaker 1: to believe that the murderer left the scene. The combination
9:06
Speaker 1: of DM's statements to law enforcement, review of forensic downloads
9:10
Speaker 1: of records from BF and DM's phones, and video of
9:13
Speaker 1: a suspect video as described below leads investigators to believe
9:17
Speaker 1: the homicides occurred between 4 a.m. and 4.25 a.m. During
9:23
Speaker 1: the processing of the crime scene, investigators found latent shoe print.
9:28
Speaker 1: This was located during the second processing of the crime
9:30
Speaker 1: scene by the ISP forensic team by first using a
9:34
Speaker 1: presumptive blood test and then amino black, a protein stain
9:39
Speaker 1: that detects the presence of cellular material. The detected shoe
9:44
Speaker 1: print showed a diamond-shaped pattern similar to a pattern of
9:47
Speaker 1: Vans-type shoe sole. just outside the door of DM's bedroom,
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Speaker 1: located on the second floor. This is consistent with DM's
9:55
Speaker 1: statements regarding the suspect's path of travel. As part of
9:59
Speaker 1: the investigation, an extensive search commonly referred to in law
10:03
Speaker 1: enforcement as a video canvas was conducted in the area
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Speaker 1: of the King Road residence. This video canvas was to
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Speaker 1: obtain any footage from the morning hours of November 13,
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Speaker 1: 2022 in the area of the King Road residence and
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Speaker 1: surrounding neighborhoods in an effort to locate the suspect or
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Speaker 1: suspect vehicle traveling to or leaving from the King Road residence.
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Speaker 1: This video canvas resulted in the collection of numerous surveillance
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Speaker 1: videos in the area from both residential and business addresses.
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Speaker 1: I have reviewed numerous videos that were collected and have
10:39
Speaker 1: had conversations with other MPD officers, ISP detectives, and FBI
10:45
Speaker 1: agents that were also reviewing footage that was obtained. A
10:51
Speaker 1: review of camera footage indicated that a white sedan, hereafter
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Speaker 1: suspect vehicle number one, was observed traveling westbound in the
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Speaker 1: 700 block of Indian Hills Drive in Moscow at approximately 3.26 a.m.
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Speaker 1: and westbound on Steiner Avenue at in Idaho State Highway
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Speaker 1: 95 in Moscow at approximately 3.28 a.m. On this video,
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Speaker 1: it appeared suspect vehicle number one was not displaying a
11:18
Speaker 1: front license plate. A review of footage from multiple videos
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Speaker 1: obtained from King Road Neighborhood showed multiple sightings of suspect
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Speaker 1: vehicle number one starting at 3.29 a.m.
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Speaker 2: And ending at 4.20 a.m.
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Speaker 1: These sightings show suspect vehicle makes an initial three passes
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Speaker 1: by 1122 King Road residence, then leaves via Walenta Drive.
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Speaker 1: Based on my experience as a patrol officer, this is
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Speaker 1: a residential neighborhood with a very limited number of vehicles
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Speaker 1: that travel in the area during the early morning hours.
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Speaker 1: Upon review of the video, there are only a few
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Speaker 1: cars that enter and exit this area during this time frame.
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Speaker 1: Suspect vehicle one can be seen entering the area a
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Speaker 1: fourth time approximately 4.04 a.m. It can be seen driving
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Speaker 1: eastbound on King Road, stopping and turning around in front
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Speaker 1: of 500 Queen Road, number 52, and then driving westbound
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Speaker 1: on King Road. When suspect vehicle number one is in
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Speaker 1: front of the King Road residence, it appeared to unsuccessfully
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Speaker 1: attempt to park or turn around in the road.
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Speaker 2: The vehicle then.
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Speaker 1: Continued to the intersection of Queen Road and King Road,
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Speaker 1: where it can be seen completing a three-point turn and
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Speaker 1: then driving eastbound again down Queen Road. Suspect vehicle number
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Speaker 1: one is next seen departing the area of the King
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Speaker 1: Road residence at approximately 4.20 a.m. at a high rate
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Speaker 1: of speed. Suspect vehicle one is next observed traveling southbound
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Speaker 1: on Walenta Drive. Based on my knowledge of the area
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Speaker 1: and review of camera footage in the neighborhood, that does
13:00
Speaker 1: not show suspect vehicle one during that time frame. I
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Speaker 1: believe that suspect vehicle number suspect one likely exited the
13:07
Speaker 1: neighborhood at Palouse River Drive and Conestoga Drive. Palouse River
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Speaker 1: Drive is at the southern edge of Moscow and proceeds
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Speaker 1: into Whitman County, Washington. Eventually, the road leads to Pullman, Washington. Pullman,
13:22
Speaker 1: Washington is approximately 10 miles from Moscow, Idaho. Both Pullman
13:26
Speaker 1: and Moscow are small college towns and people commonly travel
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Speaker 1: back and forth between them. Law enforcement officers provided video
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Speaker 1: footage of suspect vehicle number one to forensic examiners with
13:39
Speaker 1: the Federal Bureau of Investigation that regularly utilize surveillance footage
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Speaker 1: to identify the year, make, and model of unknown vehicles
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Speaker 1: that is observed by one or more cameras during the
13:51
Speaker 1: commission of a criminal offense. The forensic examiner has approximately
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Speaker 1: 35 years law enforcement experience with 12 years at the FBI.
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Speaker 1: His specific training includes identifying unique characteristics of vehicles, and
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Speaker 1: he uses a database that gives visual clues of vehicles
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Speaker 1: across states to identify differences between vehicles. After reviewing the
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Speaker 1: numerous observation of suspect vehicle one, the forensic examiner initially
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Speaker 1: believed that suspect vehicle number one was a 2011 through
14:25
Speaker 1: 2013 Hyundai Elantra. Upon further review, he indicated that it
14:30
Speaker 1: could also be a 2011 through 2016 Hyundai Elantra. As
14:35
Speaker 1: a result, investigators have been reviewing information on persons in
14:39
Speaker 1: possession of a vehicle that is a 2011 through 2016 Elantra.
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Speaker 1: White Hyundai Elantra. Investigators were given access to video footage
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Speaker 1: on the Washington State University campus located in Pullman, Washington
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Speaker 1: to review a video of indicated that at approximately 2.44 a.m.
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Speaker 1: on November 13, 2022, a white sedan, which was consistent
15:03
Speaker 1: with the description of the white Elantra known as Suspect
15:06
Speaker 1: Vehicle 1, was observed on WSU surveillance cameras traveling north
15:12
Speaker 1: on Southeast Nevada Street at Northeast Stadium Way. At approximately 2.53 a.m.,
15:18
Speaker 1: a white sedan, which is consistent with the description of
15:22
Speaker 1: the white Elantra known as Suspect Vehicle 1, was observed
15:25
Speaker 1: traveling southeast on Nevada Street in Pullman, Washington towards State
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Speaker 1: Route 270. State Route 270 connects Pullman, Washington to Moscow, Idaho.
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Speaker 1: This camera footage from Pullman, Washington was provided to the
15:41
Speaker 1: same FBI forensic examiner. The forensic examiner identified the vehicle
15:46
Speaker 1: observed in Pullman, Washington as being a 2014 through 2016
15:49
Speaker 1: Hyundai Elantra. Land slots, you can get lucky. At approximately
15:57
Speaker 1: 525 a.m., a white sedan, which was consistent with the
16:01
Speaker 1: description of suspect vehicle number one, was observed on five
16:04
Speaker 1: cameras in Pullman and on Washington State University campus cameras.
16:10
Speaker 1: The first camera that recorded the white sedan was located
16:14
Speaker 1: at 1300 Johnson Road in Pullman. The white sedan was
16:18
Speaker 1: observed traveling northbound on Johnson Road. Johnson Road leads directly
16:22
Speaker 1: back to West Palouse River Drive in Moscow, which intersects
16:26
Speaker 1: with Conestoga Drive. The white sedan was then observed turning
16:31
Speaker 1: north on Bishop Boulevard and northwest on State Route 270.
16:35
Speaker 1: At approximately 5.27 a.m., the white Elantra was observed on
16:39
Speaker 1: cameras traveling northbound on Stadium Way at Nevada Street, Stadium
16:44
Speaker 1: Way at Grimes Way, and Stadium Drive at Wilson Road.
16:49
Speaker 1: and Stadium Way at Cougar Way. On November 25th, 2022,
16:55
Speaker 1: MPD asked area law enforcement agencies to be on the
16:59
Speaker 1: lookout for the white Hyundai Elantra in the area. On
17:02
Speaker 1: November 29th, 2022, At approximately 1228 a.m., Washington State University
17:08
Speaker 1: police officer Daniel Tiengo queried White Elantra.
17:12
Speaker 2: Registered at WSU.
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Speaker 1: As a result of that query, he located a 2015
17:16
Speaker 1: White Elantra with a Pennsylvania license plate LFZ-8649.
17:24
Speaker 2: This vehicle was registered to.
17:25
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger, hereafter Koberger, residing at 1630 Northeast Valley Road,
17:32
Speaker 1: apartment 201, In Pullman, Washington. 1630 Northeast Valley Road is
17:37
Speaker 1: approximately three quarters of a mile from the intersection of
17:41
Speaker 1: Stadium Way and Cougar Way. Last camera located that picked
17:46
Speaker 1: up the white Elantra. That same day at approximately 1258 a.m.
17:52
Speaker 1: Washington State University officer Curtis Whitman was looking for white
17:56
Speaker 1: Hyundai Elantras and located a 2015 white Hyundai Elantra at
18:01
Speaker 1: 1630 Northeast Valley Road in Pullman in the parking lot.
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Speaker 1: 1630 Northeast Valley Road is an apartment that houses Washington
18:11
Speaker 1: State University students. Officer Whitman also ran the car and
18:15
Speaker 1: it returned to Kohlberger with a Washington tag. I reviewed
18:21
Speaker 1: Kohlberger's Washington State driver license, information, and photograph. This license
18:27
Speaker 1: indicates that Koberger is a white male with a height
18:30
Speaker 1: of six foot and weighs 185 pounds. Additionally, the photograph
18:35
Speaker 1: of Koberger shows that he has bushy eyebrows. Koberger's physical
18:39
Speaker 1: description is consistent with the description of the male DM
18:43
Speaker 1: saw inside the King Road residence on November 13th. Further investigation,
18:49
Speaker 1: including a review of Latah County Sheriff Deputy Corporal Duke's
18:53
Speaker 1: body camera and reports, show that on August 21, 2022,
18:57
Speaker 1: Brian Kohlberger was detained as part of a traffic stop
19:01
Speaker 1: that occurred in Moscow, Idaho, by Corporal Duke. At the time, Kohlberger...
19:06
Speaker 1: who was the sole occupant, was driving a white 2015
19:08
Speaker 1: Hyundai Elantra with Pennsylvania plate LFZ8649, which was set to
19:15
Speaker 1: expire on November 30th of 2022. During the stop, which
19:20
Speaker 1: was recorded via a law enforcement body camera, Kohlberger provided
19:24
Speaker 1: a phone number as redacted 8458. Hereafter, the 8458 phone
19:31
Speaker 1: as his cellular telephone number. Investigators conducted electronic database queries
19:36
Speaker 1: and learned that the 8458 number is a number issued
19:39
Speaker 1: by AT & T. On October 14, 2022, Brian Koberger
19:40
Speaker 1: was detained as part of a traffic stop by a
19:51
Speaker 1: Washington State University police officer. Upon review of that body
19:55
Speaker 1: cam footage and report of the stop, Koberger was the
19:59
Speaker 1: sole occupant and was driving a white 2015 Hyundai Elantra
20:04
Speaker 1: with the same license plate. On November 18, 2022, according
20:08
Speaker 1: to Washington state licensing, Kohlberger registered the 2015 White Elantra
20:14
Speaker 1: with Washington and later received a Washington plate CFB 8708.
20:20
Speaker 1: Prior to this time, the 2015 Elantra was registered in Pennsylvania,
20:25
Speaker 1: which does not require a front license plate to be displayed.
20:29
Speaker 1: This was learned through communication with a Pennsylvania officer who
20:33
Speaker 1: is currently certified in the state of Pennsylvania. Based on
20:37
Speaker 1: my own experience and communications with Washington law enforcement, I
20:41
Speaker 1: know that Idaho and Washington require front and back license
20:44
Speaker 1: plates to be displayed. Investigators believe that Koberger is still
20:49
Speaker 1: driving the 2015 white Elantra because this vehicle was captured
20:53
Speaker 1: on December 13th, 2022 by a license plate reader in Loma, Colorado.
21:00
Speaker 1: Information provided by a query to a database. Koberger's Elantra
21:04
Speaker 1: was then queried on December 15, 2022 by law enforcement
21:09
Speaker 1: in Hancock County, Indiana. On December 16, 2022, at approximately 2.26 p.m.,
21:15
Speaker 1: surveillance video showed Koberger's Elantra in Albrightville, Pennsylvania. The sole
21:21
Speaker 1: occupant of the vehicle was a white male whose description
21:24
Speaker 1: was consistent with Koberger. Koberger has family in Albrightville, Pennsylvania,
21:30
Speaker 1: learned through a TLO search, and locate tool database query.
21:34
Speaker 1: Based on information provided on the Washington State University website,
21:38
Speaker 1: Kohlberger is currently a PhD student in criminology at Washington
21:43
Speaker 1: State University. Pursuant to records provided by a number of
21:47
Speaker 1: the interview panel for Pullman Police Department, we learned that
21:51
Speaker 1: Kohlberger's past education included undergraduate degrees in psychology and cloud-based forensics.
21:59
Speaker 1: These records also showed Koberger wrote an essay when he
22:02
Speaker 1: applied for an internship with Pullman Police Department in the
22:05
Speaker 1: fall of 2022. Koberger wrote in his essay he had
22:10
Speaker 1: interest in assisting in rural law enforcement agencies with how
22:13
Speaker 1: to better collect and analyze technological data in public safety operations.
22:19
Speaker 1: Koberger also posted a Reddit survey which can be found
22:22
Speaker 1: by an open source internet search. The survey asked for
22:26
Speaker 1: participants to provide information to understand how how emotional and
22:30
Speaker 1: psychological traits influence decision-making when committing a crime. As part
22:35
Speaker 1: of this investigation, law enforcement obtained search warrants to determine
22:40
Speaker 1: cellular devices that utilize cellular towers in close proximity to
22:45
Speaker 1: the King Road residence on November 13, 2022, between 3 a.m.
22:48
Speaker 2: And 5 a.m.
22:52
Speaker 1: After determining that Kohlberger, associated to both the 2015 white
22:56
Speaker 1: Elantra and the 8458 phone, investigators reviewed these search warrant returns.
23:03
Speaker 1: A query of the 8458 number in these returns did
23:06
Speaker 1: not show the 8458 number utilizing cellular tower resources in
23:11
Speaker 1: close proximity to the King Road residence between 3 and
23:15
Speaker 1: 5 a.m. Based on my training, experience, and conversation with
23:19
Speaker 1: law enforcement officers, that specialize in the utilization of cellular
23:24
Speaker 1: telephone records as part of an investigation, individuals can either
23:28
Speaker 1: leave their cell phone at a different location before committing
23:31
Speaker 1: a crime or turn their cellular telephone off prior to
23:35
Speaker 1: going to a location to commit a crime. This is
23:38
Speaker 1: done by subjects in an effort to avoid alerting law
23:41
Speaker 1: enforcement that a cellular device associated with them was in
23:45
Speaker 1: the particular area where a crime is committed. I also
23:49
Speaker 1: know that on numerous occasions, subjects will surveil an area
23:53
Speaker 1: where they intend to commit a crime prior to the
23:55
Speaker 1: date of the crime. Depending on the circumstances, this could
23:59
Speaker 1: be done a few days before or several months prior
24:02
Speaker 1: to the commission of a crime. During these types of surveillance,
24:06
Speaker 1: it is possible that an individual would not leave their
24:09
Speaker 1: cell phone, telephone at a separate location or turn it
24:12
Speaker 1: off since they do not plan to commit an offense
24:16
Speaker 1: on that particular day. On December 23rd, 2022, I applied
24:21
Speaker 1: for and was granted a search warrant for historical phone
24:24
Speaker 1: records between November 12th, 2022 at 12 a.m. and November
24:30
Speaker 1: 14th at 12 a.m. for the 8458 number held by
24:35
Speaker 1: the phone provider AT & T, approximately 24 hours preceding
24:39
Speaker 1: and following the times of the homicides. On December 23rd, 2022,
24:44
Speaker 1: pursuant to that search warrant, I received records for the
24:48
Speaker 1: 8458 phone from AT & T. These records indicated that
24:53
Speaker 1: 8458 phone is subscribed to Brian Koberger at an address
24:58
Speaker 1: in Albrightville, Pennsylvania, and the account has been open since
25:02
Speaker 1: June 23rd, 2022. These records also included historical cell site
25:08
Speaker 1: location information for the 8458 phone After receiving this information,
25:14
Speaker 1: I consulted with an FBI special agent that is certified
25:18
Speaker 1: as a member of the cellular analysis survey team. Members
25:22
Speaker 1: of CAST are certified with the FBI to provide expert
25:26
Speaker 1: testimony in the field of historical CLSI and are required
25:30
Speaker 1: to pass extensive training that includes both written and practical
25:34
Speaker 1: examinations prior to becoming certified with CAST as well as
25:39
Speaker 1: the completion of of yearly certification requirements. Additionally, the FBI
25:45
Speaker 1: CAST essay that I consulted with over 15 years of
25:49
Speaker 1: federal law enforcement experience, which includes six years with the FBI.
25:54
Speaker 1: From information provided by CAST, I was able to determine
25:58
Speaker 1: estimated locations for the 8458 phone from November 12th, 2022
26:01
Speaker 1: to November 13th, 2022, the time period authorized by the court.
26:10
Speaker 1: On November 13th, 2022, at approximately 2.42 a.m., the 8458
26:16
Speaker 1: phone was utilizing cellular resources that provide coverage to the
26:20
Speaker 1: 1630 Northeast Valley Road, apartment G201 Pullman, Washington, hereafter the
26:27
Speaker 1: Koberger residence, at approximately 2.42 a.m. 2.47 a.m., the 8458
26:32
Speaker 1: phone utilized cellular resources that provide coverage southeast of the
26:37
Speaker 1: Coburger residence, consistent with the 8458 phone leaving the Coburger
26:42
Speaker 1: residence and traveling through Pullman, Washington. This is consistent with
26:47
Speaker 1: the movement of the White Elantra. At approximately 2.47 a.m.,
26:51
Speaker 1: at 8458, phone stops reporting to the network. which is
26:57
Speaker 1: consistent with either the phone being in an area without
27:01
Speaker 1: cellular coverage or the connection to the network is disabled,
27:05
Speaker 1: such as putting the phone in airplane mode or the
27:07
Speaker 1: phone is turned off. The 8458 phone does not report
27:12
Speaker 1: to the network again until approximately 4.48 a.m., at which
27:16
Speaker 1: time it utilizes cellular resources that provide coverage to ID
27:20
Speaker 1: State Highway 95, south of Moscow, Idaho, near Blaine, Idaho,
27:25
Speaker 1: north of Janisse, Between 4.50 a.m. and 5.26 a.m., the
27:30
Speaker 1: phone utilizes cellular resources that are consistent with the 8458
27:36
Speaker 1: phone traveling south on Idaho State Highway 95 to Janice, Idaho,
27:42
Speaker 1: then traveling west towards Unitown, Idaho, and then north back
27:47
Speaker 1: into Pullman, Washington. At approximately 5.30 a.m., the 8458 phone
27:52
Speaker 1: is utilizing resources that provide coverage to Pullman, Washington and
27:56
Speaker 1: consistent with the phone traveling back to the Coburger residence.
28:01
Speaker 1: The 8458 phone's movements are consistent with the movements of
28:05
Speaker 1: the White Elantra that is observed traveling north on Stadium
28:08
Speaker 1: Drive at approximately 5.27 a.m. Based on a review of
28:14
Speaker 1: the 8458 phone's estimated locations and travels, The 8458 phone's
28:19
Speaker 1: travel is consistent with that of the White Elantra. Further
28:23
Speaker 1: review indicated that the 8458 phone utilized cellular resources on
28:28
Speaker 1: November 13, 2022 that are consistent with the 8458 phone
28:33
Speaker 1: leaving the area of the Coburger residence at approximately 9 a.m.
28:38
Speaker 1: and traveling to Moscow, Idaho. Specifically, the 8458 phone utilized
28:43
Speaker 1: cellular resources that would provide coverage to the King Road
28:46
Speaker 1: residents between 9.12 a.m. and 9.21 a.m. The 8458 phone
28:52
Speaker 1: next utilized cellular resources that are consistent with the 8458
28:57
Speaker 1: phone traveling back to the area of the Koberger residence
29:00
Speaker 1: and arriving to the area at approximately 9.32 a.m. Investigators
29:07
Speaker 1: found that the 8458 phone did connect to a cell
29:11
Speaker 1: phone tower that provides service to Moscow on November 14th, 2022,
29:16
Speaker 1: but investigators do not believe the 8458 phone was in
29:20
Speaker 1: Moscow on that date. The 8458 phone was not connected
29:24
Speaker 1: to any towers that provide service to Moscow since that date.
29:28
Speaker 1: Based on my training and experience and the facts of
29:31
Speaker 1: the investigation thus far, I believe that Kohlberger, the user
29:35
Speaker 1: of the 8458 phone, was likely the driver of the
29:38
Speaker 1: white Elantra.
29:39
Speaker 2: That is absurd.
29:40
Speaker 1: Departing Pullman, Washington, and that this vehicle is likely suspect
29:44
Speaker 1: vehicle number one.
29:46
Speaker 2: Additionally, the route of travel of the 8458.
29:49
Speaker 1: Phone during the early morning hours of November 13th, 2022,
29:52
Speaker 1: and the lack of 8458 reporting to AT & T
29:58
Speaker 1: between 2.47 and 4.48 a.m. is consistent with Kohlberger attempting
30:03
Speaker 1: to conceal his location during the quadruple homicide that occurred
30:08
Speaker 1: at the King Road residence. On December 23, 2022, I
30:12
Speaker 1: was granted a search warrant for Kohlberger's historical CSLI from
30:18
Speaker 1: June 23, 2022 to current prospective location information and a
30:22
Speaker 1: pen register, trap, and trace on the 8458 phone in
30:27
Speaker 1: aid in efforts to determine if Kohlberger stalked any of
30:30
Speaker 1: the victims in this case prior to the offense, conducted
30:34
Speaker 1: surveillance on the King Road residence, was in contact with
30:38
Speaker 1: any of the victims or associates before or after the
30:41
Speaker 1: alleged offense. Any locations that may contain evidence of the
30:46
Speaker 1: murders that occurred on November 13, 2022, the location of
30:50
Speaker 1: the White Elantra registered to Kohlberger as well as the
30:53
Speaker 1: location of Kohlberger. On December 23, 2022, pursuant to the
30:58
Speaker 1: search warrant, I received historical records from the 8458 phone
31:03
Speaker 1: from AT & T from the time the account was
31:06
Speaker 1: opened in June 2022. After consulting with CastSA, I was
31:12
Speaker 1: able to determine estimated locations for the 8458 phone from
31:16
Speaker 1: June 2022 to present, the time period authorized by the court.
31:21
Speaker 1: The records for the 8458 phone show the 8458 phone
31:26
Speaker 1: utilizing cellular resources that provide coverage to the area of
31:30
Speaker 1: 1122 King Road on at least 12 occasions prior to November.
31:37
Speaker 2: 13, 2022.
31:38
Speaker 1: All of these occasions, except for one, occurred in the
31:41
Speaker 1: late evening and early morning hours of their respective days.
31:45
Speaker 1: One of these occasions, on August 21, 2022, the phone
31:50
Speaker 1: 8458 utilized cellular resources providing coverage to the King Road
31:54
Speaker 1: residents from approximately 1034 p.m.
31:58
Speaker 2: To 1135 p.m.
32:00
Speaker 1: At approximately 1137 p.m., Koberger was stopped by Latah County
32:04
Speaker 1: Sheriff's Corporal Duke, as mentioned before. The 8548 phone was
32:10
Speaker 1: utilizing cellular resources consistent with the location of the traffic
32:14
Speaker 1: stop during this time. Farm Road, and Pullman Highway. Further
32:19
Speaker 1: analysis of the cellular data provided showed that 8458 phone
32:24
Speaker 1: utilized cellular resources on November 13, 2022, consistent with the
32:29
Speaker 1: phone traveling from Pullman, Washington to Lewiston, Idaho via US
32:34
Speaker 1: Highway 195. At approximately 1236 p.m., the 8458 phone utilized
32:40
Speaker 1: cellular resources that would provide coverage to Kate's Cup, of
32:45
Speaker 1: Joe Coffee Stand located at 810 Port Drive, Clarkston, Washington.
32:51
Speaker 1: Surveillance footage from the U.S. Chef's Store located at 820
32:55
Speaker 1: Port Drive, Clarkston, Washington and adjacent to Kate's Cup of
32:58
Speaker 1: Joe showed a white Elantra consistent with suspect vehicle number
33:01
Speaker 1: one drive past Kate's Cup of Joe at a time
33:05
Speaker 1: consistent with the cellular data from the 8548 phone. At
33:08
Speaker 1: approximately 1246 p.m., the 8458 phone then utilized cellular data
33:16
Speaker 1: in the area of an Albertsons grocery store at 400
33:20
Speaker 1: Bridge Street in Clarkston, Washington. Surveillance footage obtained from the
33:24
Speaker 1: Albertsons showed Koberger exit the White Elantra, consistent with suspect
33:28
Speaker 1: vehicle number one, at approximately 12.49 p.m. Interior surveillance cameras
33:34
Speaker 1: showed Koberger walk through the store, purchase unknown items at
33:37
Speaker 1: the checkout, and leave at approximately 1.04 p.m. Koberger's possible
33:43
Speaker 1: path of travel is depicted below. Additional analysis of records
33:47
Speaker 1: for 8458 phone indicated that between approximately 5.32 p.m. and 5.36 p.m.,
33:55
Speaker 1: the 8458 phone utilized cellular resources that provide coverage to Johnson, Idaho.
34:02
Speaker 1: The 8458 phone then stops reporting to the network from
34:05
Speaker 1: approximately 5.36 p.m.
34:06
Speaker 2: To 8.30 p.m.
34:09
Speaker 1: This is consistent with the 8458 phone being in the
34:12
Speaker 1: area that the 8458 phone traveled in the hours immediately
34:17
Speaker 1: following the suspected homicides that occurred. On December 27, 2022,
34:23
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania agents recovered the trash from the Koberger family residence
34:27
Speaker 1: located in Albrightville, Pennsylvania. That evidence was sent to the
34:31
Speaker 1: Idaho State Lab for testing. On December 28, 2022, the
34:36
Speaker 1: Idaho State Lab reported that a DNA profile obtained from
34:40
Speaker 1: the trash and the DNA profile obtained from the sheath
34:44
Speaker 1: identified a male as not being excluded as the biological
34:48
Speaker 1: father of suspect profile. At least 99.9998% of the male
34:54
Speaker 1: population would be expected to be excluded from the possibility
34:58
Speaker 1: of being the suspect's biological father. Based on the above information,
35:03
Speaker 1: I am requesting a warrant be issued for Brian C.
35:07
Speaker 1: Kohlberger for burglary at 1122 King Street in Moscow, Idaho,
35:13
Speaker 1: and four counts of murder in the first degree for
35:16
Speaker 1: the murders of Madison Mogan, Kaylee Gonsalves, Santa Kernodle, and
35:21
Speaker 1: Ethan Chapin. I declare under the penalty of perjury pursuant
35:25
Speaker 1: to the law of the state of Idaho that the
35:27
Speaker 1: foregoing is true and correct. Oh boy, oh boy, folks.
35:32
Speaker 1: There you have it. There is a lot to process there.
35:35
Speaker 1: And it's going to take me a little time to
35:37
Speaker 1: go through it all and see what we have. But
35:39
Speaker 1: my initial reaction is, Brian Kohlberger is as good as cooked.
35:45
Speaker 1: All right, folks, that's going to do it for this one.
35:47
Speaker 1: If you'd like to contact me, you can do that
35:49
Speaker 1: at bobbycapucci at protonmail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at protonmail.com. You can
35:58
Speaker 1: also find me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The
36:05
Speaker 1: link that I discussed can be found in the description box.
36:08
Speaker 2: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program.
36:15
Speaker 1: Now that we've all had a little bit of time
36:17
Speaker 1: to let the affidavit digest a little bit and to
36:20
Speaker 1: go through it a little bit more, there are a
36:23
Speaker 1: few things inside of that affidavit that are going to
36:26
Speaker 1: be very, very difficult for Brian Koberger and his defense
36:32
Speaker 1: to argue. Now, of course, there are going to be
36:35
Speaker 1: hurdles for the prosecution as well, and there is no
36:38
Speaker 1: doubt that Koberger's defense team is going to look to
36:42
Speaker 1: punch holes in every little thing that the prosecution brings
36:46
Speaker 1: to the table. The question is, will they have enough
36:50
Speaker 1: to work with to make a jury believe that Brian
36:54
Speaker 1: Koberger is not the man responsible, or at the very least,
36:59
Speaker 1: that the prosecution doesn't have enough evidence to convince a
37:03
Speaker 1: jury beyond a reasonable doubt that Koberger is the man responsible.
37:08
Speaker 1: So today we have an article from Law and Crime
37:11
Speaker 1: talking about this a little bit and about how strong
37:14
Speaker 1: the evidence is in the affidavit and some of the
37:17
Speaker 1: hurdles that both sides might face. Headline, Idaho murder suspect
37:23
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger's affidavit is full of bad facts for his
37:26
Speaker 1: lawyers and some gaps for the state, experts say. This
37:31
Speaker 1: article was authored by Adam Klasfeld. In the defense bar,
37:38
Speaker 1: attorneys have a phrase to describe information that isn't helpful
37:41
Speaker 1: to their clients.
37:43
Speaker 2: They're bad facts.
37:44
Speaker 1: And a federal public defender who represented thousands of clients
37:48
Speaker 1: say they are all over the recently unsealed affidavit in
37:51
Speaker 1: the case of Idaho quadruple murder suspect Brian Koberger. And
37:57
Speaker 1: it certainly doesn't look good for Mr. Koberger with the
38:00
Speaker 1: evidence that we have here. However, if you have a
38:04
Speaker 1: competent lawyer... They can punch holes in just about anything.
38:09
Speaker 1: So it's going to be very interesting to see what
38:11
Speaker 1: sort of strategy is employed here by Brian Koberger's defense
38:16
Speaker 1: moving forward, because we know already that he plans on
38:20
Speaker 1: fighting these charges, at least as of now. So we're
38:24
Speaker 1: going to get discovery. We're going to get to the
38:26
Speaker 1: trial phase, and we're going to hear a whole lot
38:28
Speaker 1: more about what happened. Some are bad facts that could
38:33
Speaker 1: get better, and some are bad facts that couldn't get worse,
38:37
Speaker 1: Law and Crime Network host and federal public defender Brian
38:40
Speaker 1: Buckmeyer said in an interview. Authorities believe that Koberger was
38:45
Speaker 1: the man who killed four University of Idaho students, Ethan Chapin,
38:50
Speaker 1: Zanna Kernodle, Kaylee Gonsalves, and Madison Mogan. The students were
38:55
Speaker 1: stabbed to death on the second and third floors of
38:57
Speaker 1: an off-campus house in the small and rural college town
39:01
Speaker 1: on November 13th of 2022. The unsealed affidavit revealed that
39:07
Speaker 1: Moscow Police Department Corporal Brett Payne found a tan leather
39:11
Speaker 1: knife sheath laying on the bed next to Mogan's right side,
39:15
Speaker 1: stamped with U.S. Marine Corps K-Bar and related insignia. So
39:21
Speaker 1: when they were talking about the knife right from the beginning,
39:23
Speaker 1: they weren't messing around, right? It was a K-bar knife, allegedly,
39:28
Speaker 1: and they found that sheath with it. his DNA on it.
39:31
Speaker 1: And the DNA that was found on it was touch DNA,
39:34
Speaker 1: basically skin coming off of your finger. So pretty hard
39:40
Speaker 1: evidence here that Brian Koberger was in possession of this knife,
39:44
Speaker 1: at least at some point. That's what the prosecution obviously
39:48
Speaker 1: is going to argue. However, there is no murder weapon.
39:51
Speaker 1: Remember that. Now, you don't need a murder weapon and
39:55
Speaker 1: you don't need motive to get a conviction for murder.
39:58
Speaker 1: But it does go a long way if you can
40:01
Speaker 1: find that weapon and it has DNA on it that
40:04
Speaker 1: leads you directly to the killer. Now, having that sheath
40:08
Speaker 1: that was housing that weapon, that's pretty significant as well.
40:14
Speaker 1: From there, authorities found a single source of male DNA
40:18
Speaker 1: And they recovered DNA from Koberger's father from the family
40:21
Speaker 1: residence in Pennsylvania. At least 99.9998% of the male population
40:29
Speaker 1: would be expected to be excluded from the possibility of
40:32
Speaker 1: being the suspect's biological father, the affidavit said. So according
40:37
Speaker 1: to this science, it's pretty much indisputable that Brian Koberger's
40:41
Speaker 1: DNA is on the sheath of this knife. The defendant's
40:46
Speaker 1: father was not excluded. Authorities, however, do not have the
40:50
Speaker 1: suspect's DNA yet. Now, where it could go depends on
40:55
Speaker 1: when ultimately they get Brian Koberger's DNA, Buckmeyer noted. I'm
40:59
Speaker 1: guessing that's already occurred now that he's been in the lockup, right?
41:03
Speaker 1: Once you're, you know, arrested, you have to give up
41:06
Speaker 1: DNA and shit like that, don't you? Another bad fact
41:11
Speaker 1: flagged by experts. came in the form of AT &
41:13
Speaker 1: T phone records scrutinized by law enforcement. Between 2.47 a.m.
41:19
Speaker 1: and 4.48 a.m. on the night of the slayings, authorities
41:23
Speaker 1: say Koberger turned off his cell phone to conceal his
41:26
Speaker 1: location during the quadruple homicide that occurred at the King
41:30
Speaker 1: Road residence. And why anyone would bring their cell phone
41:34
Speaker 1: to commit a crime is absolutely beyond me. And trust
41:38
Speaker 1: me when I tell you, I'm certainly no arch criminal.
41:41
Speaker 1: I am terrified of going to prison or jail or
41:45
Speaker 1: anything that has to do with me being detained against
41:48
Speaker 1: my will. But if you're going to commit a crime,
41:52
Speaker 1: probably a good idea, A, not to use your own whip,
41:55
Speaker 1: and B, to leave your cell phone at home. Before
41:59
Speaker 1: his arrest, Koberger had been pursuing his PhD in criminology
42:03
Speaker 1: at Washington State University, about 10 miles away from the
42:07
Speaker 1: Idaho crime scene. Buckmeyer noted that the rural area where
42:11
Speaker 1: the stabbings took place wasn't exactly brimming with cell phone towers.
42:16
Speaker 1: If we have two cell phone towers that are tracking
42:19
Speaker 1: from 9 to 10 miles apart, him being pinged on
42:22
Speaker 1: two different cell towers doesn't mean anything, he added. That's
42:26
Speaker 1: why former federal prosecutor Mitchell Eppner said flatly that the
42:30
Speaker 1: government would hope to have much more evidence than is
42:33
Speaker 1: apparent in that affidavit before any trial. And that's significant, right,
42:38
Speaker 1: to hear from these prosecutors saying that while the affidavit
42:41
Speaker 1: does have strong evidence, they would hope that the government
42:45
Speaker 1: has a little bit more than that when it comes
42:47
Speaker 1: to trial time. And I can get on board with that. Look,
42:50
Speaker 1: you want to have as much evidence as possible. When
42:53
Speaker 1: it comes to trial, you want to make sure that
42:55
Speaker 1: it's a slam dunk or the closest thing to that
42:58
Speaker 1: you can get. But a lot of times when we're
43:02
Speaker 1: dealing with criminal trials, especially ones like this, There's all
43:06
Speaker 1: kinds of twists and turns in the road and all
43:09
Speaker 1: kinds of hiccups for both the defense and the prosecution.
43:15
Speaker 1: My initial reaction is I've seen people convicted on less evidence,
43:19
Speaker 1: said Eppner, a partner at the firm Rottenberg, Lipman Rich PC.
43:23
Speaker 1: But I would not want to go to trial if
43:25
Speaker 1: that was my only evidence. If a jury is predisposed
43:29
Speaker 1: to believe Koberger is the killer, Eppner said, the DNA
43:32
Speaker 1: and the location data would be sufficient if admitted. I mean,
43:36
Speaker 1: the son of Sam was basically caught because of a
43:38
Speaker 1: parking ticket, Eppner said, referring to the serial killer David Berkowitz,
43:43
Speaker 1: who wreaked havoc over New York City in the summer
43:46
Speaker 1: of 1977. No jury would be overturned for convicting on
43:50
Speaker 1: that basis. So look, with the digital evidence that they have,
43:55
Speaker 1: and with all of the evidence that we have seen
43:58
Speaker 1: in the affidavit, Look, folks, it's very strong, right? It
44:01
Speaker 1: is very strong evidence. But the question is, is it
44:04
Speaker 1: enough to convict? Beyond that, Eppner noted, some of the
44:10
Speaker 1: additional evidence is murky. The affidavit refers to a footprint
44:15
Speaker 1: from a Vans-type shoe sole without explicitly saying it's Kohlberger's.
44:20
Speaker 1: Some of the evidence suggests Kohlberger may have stalked the victims,
44:23
Speaker 1: but Eppner says, That could have ready-made defense, though perhaps
44:28
Speaker 1: one that's not flattering to the accused. You could also
44:31
Speaker 1: think this is, you know, a loser who was socially awkward,
44:36
Speaker 1: who lived in a university town, who was obsessed with
44:38
Speaker 1: a couple of attractive young women, Eppner said. And that
44:42
Speaker 1: certainly could be the excuse. That could be the reasoning
44:45
Speaker 1: why he was at this house. Oh, I was infatuated
44:48
Speaker 1: with one or more of the girls. I was over
44:51
Speaker 1: there because, you know, I couldn't work up the courage
44:54
Speaker 1: to talk to them. Whatever kind of nonsensical BS he
44:57
Speaker 1: comes up with. But there's going to be some kind
45:00
Speaker 1: of defense of this. The reliance upon the knife sheath
45:04
Speaker 1: recovered from the crime scene points to the absence of
45:07
Speaker 1: what it holds, the murder weapon. Now, again, you do
45:11
Speaker 1: not need the murder weapon to get a conviction. Although
45:14
Speaker 1: if you have the murder weapon. It obviously makes your
45:17
Speaker 1: case that much stronger, especially if it has that DNA
45:21
Speaker 1: on it. The affidavit does, however, contain plenty of evidence
45:26
Speaker 1: of the participation in the investigation by the FBI, which
45:30
Speaker 1: is mentioned eight times in the document. The FBI definitely
45:34
Speaker 1: was a key component here for catching a suspect and
45:38
Speaker 1: bringing Brian Koberger into custody. Now, Are the charges going
45:43
Speaker 1: to stick? Is he going to be convicted? We don't
45:46
Speaker 1: know that yet. But the FBI played a crucial role
45:49
Speaker 1: in building this case, collecting this evidence, surveilling him, and
45:54
Speaker 1: then arresting him when they had the probable cause and
45:58
Speaker 1: the warrants all ready to go. So it was a
46:01
Speaker 1: master class by the FBI in surveillance and intelligence gathering.
46:06
Speaker 2: But like I said from the beginning, that's what they
46:08
Speaker 2: excel at. If the FBI would just stick.
46:11
Speaker 1: To that and get away from the rest of the
46:13
Speaker 1: nonsense they get involved in, they would serve themselves so
46:16
Speaker 1: much better. Eppner, who previously led intake for sex trafficking
46:22
Speaker 1: cases in the U.S. Attorney's Office, District of New Jersey,
46:26
Speaker 1: said he wouldn't be surprised if the federal government eventually
46:29
Speaker 1: took over the case, giving the interstate travel that ultimately
46:33
Speaker 1: led to Kohlberger's capture in Pennsylvania. Now, I have no
46:37
Speaker 1: idea who will take, you know, Providence here, the federal government,
46:41
Speaker 1: or if it'll stay in Idaho. Obviously, this gentleman, Mr. Eppner,
46:45
Speaker 1: would know more about that sort of thing than me.
46:48
Speaker 1: But it seems more likely that Idaho is going to
46:51
Speaker 1: be the ones who try this case and the people
46:54
Speaker 1: of Idaho are going to be the ones who administer
46:56
Speaker 1: the justice.
46:57
Speaker 2: I would think that that would be the right way
46:58
Speaker 2: to go here. But if it goes federal.
47:01
Speaker 1: Then I guess that's just another curveball we'll have to
47:04
Speaker 1: deal with at that time. For Buckmeyer, whatever evidence Idaho
47:09
Speaker 1: authorities either may have or disclosed is outweighed by the
47:13
Speaker 1: weight of the facts proffered.
47:15
Speaker 2: In the document.
47:17
Speaker 1: As many times as I can try and poke holes
47:19
Speaker 1: in his affidavit, it's still probably one of the strongest
47:22
Speaker 1: affidavits that I've seen in a very, very long time,
47:26
Speaker 1: Buckmeyer added. If accepted by the jury, the evidence tying
47:30
Speaker 1: Kohlberger to crimes alleged would reflect mistakes he would be
47:34
Speaker 1: singularly trained to recognize as a criminology student. But, Buckmeyer noted,
47:39
Speaker 1: that goes to the nature of the criminal mind. It's
47:42
Speaker 1: not just the intelligence of someone who commits a crime,
47:46
Speaker 1: it's the arrogance, Buckmeyer said, alluding to the suspect allegedly
47:50
Speaker 1: bringing his cell phone to the scene and returning to
47:53
Speaker 1: the site 12 times. I know that it may be
47:56
Speaker 1: new for some people to see the idea of intelligent criminals.
48:00
Speaker 1: Intelligent criminals happen all the time, Buckmeyer noted, but it's
48:04
Speaker 1: the arrogance of a criminal that really trips them up.
48:08
Speaker 1: And that's really what it comes down to for a
48:10
Speaker 1: lot of these so-called mastermind criminals, right? They get arrogant,
48:14
Speaker 1: they get brazen, and they start acting the fool. Look
48:17
Speaker 1: at a guy like Israel Keys. He was very cautious.
48:22
Speaker 1: He would plan out his murders. And then eventually his
48:25
Speaker 1: nonsense got the best of him. He snatches a girl
48:28
Speaker 1: who lives near him and it leads to his arrest.
48:31
Speaker 1: And that's how it usually works for these people. They
48:33
Speaker 1: think they're the smartest man in the room until they're not.
48:39
Speaker 1: All right, folks, that's going to do it for this one.
48:41
Speaker 1: If you'd like to contact me, you can do that
48:43
Speaker 1: at BobbyCapucci at ProtonMail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at ProtonMail.com. You can
48:52
Speaker 1: also find me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The
48:59
Speaker 1: link that I discussed can be found in the description box.