Latest / Coffee and Bible Time Podcast / Living Purposefully in Light of Eternity | Jordan Raynor

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Living Purposefully in Light of Eternity | Jordan Raynor · Coffee and Bible Time Podcast

• 1:01
  Ellen Krause: At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast,.
• 1:03
  Ellen Krause: Our goal is to help you delight in God's Word and thrive in Christian living.
• 1:07
  Ellen Krause: Each week we talk to subject matter experts who broaden your biblical understanding, encourage you in hard times and provide life-building tips to enhance your Christian walk.
• 1:18
  Ellen Krause: We are so glad you have joined us.
• 1:21
  Ellen Krause: Welcome back to the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
• 1:26
  Ellen Krause: This is Ellen, your host.
• 1:28
  Ellen Krause: Many of us have heard ideas about heaven that make it sound distant or boring or confusing, especially for our kids.
• 1:38
  Ellen Krause: Whether it's being told heaven is all about floating on clouds or that it's an endless worship service, these images don't expire excitement and the hope that the Bible promises.
• 1:50
  Ellen Krause: In this episode, jordan Raynr is here to change that.
• 1:55
  Ellen Krause: His new book, the Royal in you, gives us a clearer, more joyful picture of heaven, rooted in scripture.
• 2:02
  Ellen Krause: He shows us how to help our kids understand that heaven is not only filled with the best parts of earth, but that we'll be working, exploring and reigning with Christ forever.
• 2:15
  Ellen Krause: We'll learn practical steps to help our kids embrace this biblical hope for heaven.
• 2:20
  Ellen Krause: We'll also explore key passages that answer the most common questions kids ask about heaven.
• 2:26
  Ellen Krause: When we miss out on this teaching, our kids can grow up with a sense of dread about their eternal future, and that can weaken their faith and excitement about God's promises.
• 2:37
  Ellen Krause: So let's start today by shifting how we talk about heaven with the young ones in our lives, pointing them to the joyful, hope-filled truth of what God has prepared for us.
• 2:50
  Ellen Krause: Jordan Raynor is a leading voice of the faith and work movement.
• 2:55
  Ellen Krause: Through his best-selling books, including the Sacredness of Secular Work, Redeeming your Time, The Creator in You, and his keynote speeches, podcasts and devotionals, Jordan has helped millions of Christians in every country on earth connect to the gospel and their work.
• 3:14
  Ellen Krause: In addition to his writing and speaking, Jordan serves as the executive chairman of Threshold 360, a venture-backed tech startup which Jordan previously ran as CEO.
• 3:27
  Ellen Krause: Following a string of successful ventures of his own, Jordan has twice been selected as a Google Fellow and served in the White House under President George W Bush.
• 3:37
  Ellen Krause: A sixth-generation Floridian, Jordan lives in Tampa with his wife and three young daughters.
• 3:44
  Ellen Krause: The Raynors are proud members of the church at Odessa.
• 3:47
  Ellen Krause: Please welcome Jordan.
• 3:50
  Jordan Raynor: Hey, Ellen, it's so good to see you.
• 3:52
  Jordan Raynor: It is always a joy to hang out with you.
• 3:54
  Ellen Krause: Thank you so much, and for me as well.
• 3:57
  Ellen Krause: I'm so excited to see you again, and anytime I hear Jordan Raynor has come out with something new,
• 4:05
  Jordan Raynor: I'm on it.
• 4:06
  Ellen Krause: I'm on it immediately and I'm so excited about this topic.
• 4:10
  Ellen Krause: I thought maybe we would just take a moment for me to ask you, and you can ask me what are your first memories of heaven about learning about heaven?
• 4:22
  Jordan Raynor: Man, I don't know that I got a great answer to that.
• 4:26
  Jordan Raynor: Uh, I remember thinking a lot about it in chapel growing up.
• 4:31
  Jordan Raynor: I'll get to that in a second.
• 4:31
  Jordan Raynor: I want to hear your answer to this.
• 4:33
  Jordan Raynor: What's your first memory of thinking about heaven?
• 4:35
  Ellen Krause: Well, I got to thinking about it and I don't have a first memory.
• 4:40
  Ellen Krause: I feel like it was something that I kind of always knew about.
• 4:44
  Ellen Krause: I knew that that was the end goal, but I didn't really know a lot about it.
• 4:49
  Ellen Krause: And it actually wasn't until I was an adult and did Randy Alcorn's Heaven study with our small group that I started to learn more about what heaven was about.
• 5:02
  Ellen Krause: So when I learned about this topic of you talking about heaven to kids, I'm like, wow, this is something that's really needed.
• 5:12
  Jordan Raynor: Well.
• 5:12
  Jordan Raynor: So it's so interesting that Randy was a part of your story on this topic.
• 5:15
  Jordan Raynor: Randy's a huge part of my story on this topic.
• 5:19
  Jordan Raynor: So I grew up silently dreading the idea of heaven.
• 5:24
  Jordan Raynor: Uh, really, really, up until my twenties, mid twenties, when I read Randy's book and some others, I would have never admitted that to my parents, I would have never admitted it to my pastor, you know.
• 5:35
  Jordan Raynor: And yes, on the one hand, I was excited to be with Jesus forever.
• 5:40
  Jordan Raynor: I wanted that more than anything.
• 5:41
  Jordan Raynor: But the church tradition that I grew up in taught me that being with Jesus quote unquote in heaven which, as we're going to get to, is not the ultimate state meant giving up all of the other things that I and oh, by the way, jesus loved on earth, like work, like wine, like mountains, et cetera, et cetera.
• 6:02
  Jordan Raynor: And eventually, um, through Randy, through some other people, god opened my eyes to see that almost every single thing that I had been taught about heaven and Sunday school as a kid was either a half truth or a full blown lie.
• 6:17
  Jordan Raynor: And the biblical truths that replace those lies, ellen, are some of the most freeing and exhilarating I've ever encountered.
• 6:25
  Jordan Raynor: I'm sure we're going to talk about some of those truths in a minute, but for now I'll just say this Before I encountered what scripture rather than culture says about heaven, I had very little hope for eternity.
• 6:37
  Jordan Raynor: I saw almost zero purpose in the work I did in the present and I certainly wasn't motivated to share my faith, which is why I am totally convinced that peddling this American caricature of heaven as a glorified retirement home in the clouds is one of Satan's all time greatest hits.
• 7:01
  Jordan Raynor: That's why I wrote the Royal Indio to help kids replace culture's view of heaven with scriptures and to help them see scripture's vision of heaven that gives us so much hope and joy and anticipation, now and forevermore.
• 7:19
  Ellen Krause: Anticipation, now and forevermore.
• 7:20
  Ellen Krause: You know, I think clarity on this topic is so important as believers, because everything that we face is in light of heaven.
• 7:30
  Jordan Raynor: Yes.
• 7:30
  Ellen Krause: It's the hope that we have.
• 7:32
  Ellen Krause: No matter what goes wrong here on earth, what difficulties we face, we know we have heaven to look forward to.
• 7:44
  Jordan Raynor: And if that's not appealing, then, like you said, we've've got faithfulness is going to be tough, yeah, yeah.
• 7:46
  Ellen Krause: Well, tell us about those biblical truths that helped you replace fear and boredom with excitement and hope.
• 7:54
  Jordan Raynor: Yeah, I'll just share three with you.
• 7:55
  Jordan Raynor: Number one nobody, including Jesus Christ, will spend eternity in heaven.
• 8:02
  Jordan Raynor: If, if, what you mean by the word heaven is the present heaven, where the souls of the redeemed are currently with Christ, as I put it in the Royal and You, Jesus said he won't stay in the clouds way up there.
• 8:14
  Jordan Raynor: He'll bring heaven to earth and he'll live with us here, which is precisely what we see in Revelation 21.
• 8:21
  Jordan Raynor: So that's first truth.
• 8:22
  Jordan Raynor: Nobody's going to spend eternity in heaven.
• 8:24
  Jordan Raynor: All of God's people, those who are in Christ Jesus, trusting Christ alone for their righteousness, will ultimately be on the new earth with God forever.
• 8:33
  Jordan Raynor: Here's the second truth that new earth will be filled with the best things of earth, free from the curse of sin.
• 8:42
  Jordan Raynor: That includes animals, see Isaiah, chapter 11.
• 8:43
  Jordan Raynor: Will be filled with the best things of earth free from the curse of sin.
• 8:45
  Jordan Raynor: That includes animals, see Isaiah, chapter 11.
• 8:48
  Jordan Raynor: It includes quote the best of meats and the finest of wines.
• 8:51
  Jordan Raynor: End quote see Isaiah 25.
• 8:53
  Jordan Raynor: It includes the best inventions and works of human hands see Isaiah 60.
• 8:58
  Jordan Raynor: And it includes epic cities like the New Jerusalem, which stands 7 million feet tall, deep and wide, see Revelation 21.
• 9:08
  Jordan Raynor: John makes this abundantly clear.
• 9:09
  Jordan Raynor: Here's a third truth that just gave me so much more hope and anticipation for eternity.
• 9:14
  Jordan Raynor: Heaven on earth is not an eternal worship service.
• 9:21
  Jordan Raynor: It is eternal worship through service, through work alongside Christ the King.
• 9:31
  Jordan Raynor: The Bible begins and ends with work.
• 9:32
  Jordan Raynor: We've talked about the beginning of it here on this podcast before.
• 9:35
  Jordan Raynor: In Genesis 1, God worked and called us to work as we bear his image, to rule over the earth with him and for him See Genesis 1, 26 through 28.
• 9:46
  Jordan Raynor: And we see that exact same call echoed at the opposite book.
• 9:49
  Jordan Raynor: Under scripture, revelation 22, 5 does not say that we will sing Lord, I lift your name on high forever and ever.
• 9:54
  Jordan Raynor: It does not say we'll recline in a hammock forever or never.
• 9:57
  Jordan Raynor: It says we will quote reign forever and ever and quote as princes and princesses of the kingdom of God.
• 10:08
  Jordan Raynor: Here's how I said in the Royal and you, Jesus wants you to rule with him, to explore and fill the kingdom of heaven with him.
• 10:16
  Jordan Raynor: God says he won't rule this world all on his own.
• 10:19
  Jordan Raynor: He'll send princes and princesses out from his throne.
• 10:24
  Jordan Raynor: So, Ellen, those are just three of the biblical truths that, for me, totally replaced the confusion, the boredom, the fear I used to feel when I thought about heaven with biblical clarity, excitement and hope, and my prayer is that this little picture book called the Royal and you will do the same for my kids, for your grandkids at one day, and children, adult kids and even the grownups who are listening to this podcast right now.
• 10:51
  Ellen Krause: Yes, I think for those of you that are listening, including myself here all of those lift sort of this yeah, any cloud you might have been feeling about it.
• 11:05
  Ellen Krause: When you actually go back to God's word and you see what he actually does say about heaven starts to give us a glimpse.
• 11:14
  Ellen Krause: A large part of heaven is a mystery, right, but there are so many things that we can know if we dare to open our Bibles to see what it actually says about it.
• 11:28
  Ellen Krause: One of the things I think that's been confusing for people is the talk about the new earth.
• 11:36
  Ellen Krause: So why do Christians talk so much more about heaven than the new earth?
• 11:42
  Jordan Raynor: Oh, that's a great question.
• 11:43
  Jordan Raynor: There's some good reasons here.
• 11:44
  Jordan Raynor: Right, we want to know what happened to our loved one who just passed away last week.
• 11:49
  Jordan Raynor: Right, and that's right and good, and we should explore those questions.
• 11:53
  Jordan Raynor: And I'll share in a second why I think we talk so much more about heaven than the new earth.
• 11:59
  Jordan Raynor: But I got to make this point before I do.
• 12:02
  Jordan Raynor: Our emphasis on the present heaven over the new earth is the complete opposite of what the writers of scripture focused on.
• 12:11
  Jordan Raynor: The present heaven was not the hope of the writers of the new Testament.
• 12:16
  Jordan Raynor: Their hope was for physical, bodily resurrection on a physical, resurrected and renewed earth, when Christ had made all things new.
• 12:25
  Jordan Raynor: See 1 Corinthians 15, see Romans 8, see Revelation 21 to 22, etc.
• 12:30
  Jordan Raynor: Etc.
• 12:30
  Jordan Raynor: Etc.
• 12:30
  Jordan Raynor: So we are just way out of whack here.
• 12:32
  Jordan Raynor: I did a search.
• 12:33
  Jordan Raynor: There are more than 10,000 children's books about the present heaven for sale on Amazon right now.
• 12:38
  Jordan Raynor: There are less than five about the new earth.
• 12:42
  Jordan Raynor: Wow, that's crazy to me.
• 12:45
  Jordan Raynor: Right, we are just way out of line with scripture here.
• 12:49
  Jordan Raynor: Now, let me.
• 12:49
  Jordan Raynor: Let me answer the question you actually asked me.
• 12:51
  Jordan Raynor: You asked me why Christians talk so much about the present heaven and the new earth.
• 12:54
  Jordan Raynor: Here's the really short, really nerdy answer to this.
• 12:58
  Jordan Raynor: I won't spend a lot of time on this, but many of us have been more discipled by Plato than we have been discipled by Jesus.
• 13:05
  Jordan Raynor: Right, the Greek philosopher Plato popularized this dualistic view of the world, which claims that the soul and the spiritual realm are the only things that are eternal.
• 13:18
  Jordan Raynor: Everything else, our bodies, the earth, the things of this earth, are all going to burn up and, by the way, that's the story of every single major religion ever, except Christianity.
• 13:29
  Jordan Raynor: Right, God's word rejects that thinking emphatically.
• 13:34
  Jordan Raynor: It makes it abundantly clear that our final destination is not as disembodied souls floating on clouds, strumming harps.
• 13:43
  Jordan Raynor: Our final destination is physical, bodily resurrection Like Christ's on a physical, renewed earth, doing physical and meaningful and joyful work, all to God's greater glory and our greater happiness.
• 14:02
  Ellen Krause: I kind of get this brain-busting moment of trying to envision this new earth.
• 14:12
  Ellen Krause: That's perfect, that you know the same thing that Adam and Eve experienced before the fall the beauty, and it really is mind boggling.
• 14:25
  Ellen Krause: And then, of course, we've never known ourselves as sinless.
• 14:30
  Ellen Krause: That's right or perfection to how God originally intended.
• 14:37
  Ellen Krause: So that's pretty exciting to look forward to, especially the older you get.
• 14:43
  Jordan Raynor: That's right.
• 14:43
  Jordan Raynor: It is hard to imagine.
• 14:44
  Jordan Raynor: I think that's why a lot of people don't take the time to do this.
• 14:47
  Jordan Raynor: In my experience, Ellen, most Christians have spent more time thinking about a single week-long vacation than they have thought about the nature of the new earth, and I get it kind of but man if this is what we're building our lives on, life with God forever on earth.
• 15:08
  Jordan Raynor: We got to get clear on what God's word, rather than culture, says about this, because when we don't, when we fail to think deeply about our final destination, it inevitably leads us to settle for these wishy washy half truths about heaven, to rob us of our joy and anticipation and purpose as we do the things that God has called us to do today.
• 15:42
  Ellen Krause: Oh my, it is.
• 15:43
  Ellen Krause: You know, sometimes I actually I think I've always had that kind of a positive outlook, but it's kind of been very foggy, yeah, and.
• 15:51
  Ellen Krause: But sometimes I think about the things that I would really want, and this is going to sound so crazy, but I would love to have my own talking horse.
• 16:00
  Ellen Krause: I mean and I'm sure that came from reading Chronicles- of Narnia.
• 16:04
  Jordan Raynor: You know some years ago, but I'm like you know well, and here's the beauty Cause I've heard this criticism before Jordan.
• 16:13
  Jordan Raynor: It's silly to imagine these things.
• 16:15
  Jordan Raynor: The scripture doesn't tell us what it's going to be like.
• 16:18
  Jordan Raynor: Oh, by the way, scripture gives us way more clues than most people think about what the new earth is going to be like.
• 16:23
  Jordan Raynor: But then they also say well, we shouldn't need to be motivated by these things.
• 16:27
  Jordan Raynor: Life with God is enough and just being with Jesus is enough.
• 16:31
  Jordan Raynor: And, yes, christ and his glory are the whole point of eternity.
• 16:36
  Jordan Raynor: But God put clues in scripture there for a reason right To expand our imagination, to give us something concrete to hold on to, to spur our faithfulness to his commands in the presence.
• 16:52
  Jordan Raynor: Why Jesus said store for yourself treasures in heaven.
• 16:56
  Jordan Raynor: He knew we needed something concrete to hold onto, to motivate us to abound in the good works that God has given us to do.
• 17:03
  Jordan Raynor: And, by the way, the fact that we don't spend time thinking about this I think this is what leads so many people to live this life for their bucket list Rather than for God's greater glory.
• 17:16
  Jordan Raynor: The whole bucket list mentality assumes that this life is your only chance to see the best places, to eat the best food, to have the best vocational experiences.
• 17:28
  Jordan Raynor: You got to do it before you die and kick the bucket.
• 17:30
  Jordan Raynor: That's a lie for the pit of hell and I think it's stealing the lives from believers.
• 17:37
  Jordan Raynor: I think it's thwarting believers from fully engaging in the work of the Lord in this age because they feel like they've got to get everything out of this life.
• 17:45
  Jordan Raynor: But once we dismantle that thinking with God's word, you see that we're going to have forever to experience the best cities see the new Jerusalem the best food, the best cultural goods of all time.
• 17:56
  Jordan Raynor: Man, it's easy for me to spend this life because I now see it as a rounding error in the grand scheme of eternity.
• 18:05
  Ellen Krause: Absolutely.
• 18:06
  Ellen Krause: I love that you said that because you know, as I was preparing for this, one of the things that was pointing out that there'll be nations, Like you said, there will be opportunities to experience differences than you and I are and be able to celebrate that.
• 18:25
  Ellen Krause: That kind of goofs people up, I think, is thinking that you're going to be on a cloud, you know, like an angel playing and you have to worship and God and sing all day long.
• 18:49
  Jordan Raynor: What is the whole truth about the worship part that we see in scripture?
• 18:51
  Jordan Raynor: Yeah, yeah, listen.
• 18:59
  Jordan Raynor: It is true in a sense that we will worship for eternity.
• 19:01
  Jordan Raynor: But the reason why I call it half true is that our definition of that word worship is, on our very best days, half true.
• 19:03
  Jordan Raynor: We define worship largely as what we do for the first 20 minutes at church on Sunday mornings, but God's definition is far broader.
• 19:10
  Jordan Raynor: In Genesis 2.15, it says that God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it, and that Hebrew word that we translate to mean work in Genesis 2.15 is this Hebrew word, abad, which elsewhere in Scripture we translate to mean worship.
• 19:32
  Jordan Raynor: What's the point?
• 19:33
  Jordan Raynor: We translate to mean worship?
• 19:35
  Jordan Raynor: What's the point?
• 19:36
  Jordan Raynor: Adam and Eve were not just worshiping God when they walked with him in the cool of the morning or when they sang him a song.
• 19:39
  Jordan Raynor: They were worshiping God as they leaned into the first commission that God gave us to create in his image, to fill the earth with culture and people and processes that bring him great glory.
• 19:54
  Jordan Raynor: And in what may come as the greatest shock of this podcast so far, the same is going to be true for you and me, forever.
• 20:00
  Jordan Raynor: I already quoted Revelation 22.5.
• 20:02
  Jordan Raynor: We will quote reign forever and ever.
• 20:04
  Jordan Raynor: Earlier in the verse it says God's servants will serve him.
• 20:08
  Jordan Raynor: That doesn't sound like musical worship to me, and Isaiah 65, which is one of the best biblical commentaries we have on Revelation 21 and 22, makes this abundantly clear.
• 20:18
  Jordan Raynor: Listen to what the prophet sorry, listen to what God says through the prophet Isaiah, starting in verse 17.
• 20:25
  Jordan Raynor: Isaiah 65, 17.
• 20:26
  Jordan Raynor: See, I will create new heavens and a new earth.
• 20:28
  Jordan Raynor: My people will build houses and dwell in them.
• 20:34
  Jordan Raynor: They will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
• 20:39
  Jordan Raynor: For as the days of the tree, so will be the days of my people.
• 20:42
  Jordan Raynor: My chosen ones will long enjoy the work of their hands.
• 20:48
  Jordan Raynor: They will not labor in vain, they and their descendants with them.
• 20:54
  Jordan Raynor: Ellen, for kids and grownups who love learning, creating, exploring and working, that promise should make us ecstatic about the new earth.
• 21:08
  Jordan Raynor: Yes, we're worshiping for eternity, but we're worshiping by singing and creating and ruling and working with the risen Christ, free from the thorns and thistles of the curse.
• 21:22
  Jordan Raynor: It'll be work that is rigorous but rewarding, strenuous but sinless.
• 21:27
  Jordan Raynor: All blissful worship to Christ our King.
• 21:31
  Jordan Raynor: All blissful worship to Christ our King, and that's the vision I'm trying to artistically instill in kids and parents in The Royal in You.
• 21:40
  Ellen Krause: And as part of that vision, Jordan, what types of work do you think we can expect on this new earth?
• 21:50
  Jordan Raynor: Yeah, it's a great question.
• 21:51
  Jordan Raynor: And listen, we're moving a little bit into the realm of speculation.
• 21:53
  Jordan Raynor: But let me give three guesses based on clues we find throughout God's word.
• 21:57
  Jordan Raynor: Number one I think we may do some of the same work we're doing in this life, with all of the best parts and none of the sinful parts.
• 22:04
  Jordan Raynor: Revelation 14, 13 says, quote Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on, for their deeds will follow them, end quote.
• 22:13
  Jordan Raynor: And the Lord from now on, for their deeds will follow them.
• 22:16
  Jordan Raynor: End quote.
• 22:16
  Jordan Raynor: And the word we translate to deeds here can also be translated to mean occupation.
• 22:19
  Jordan Raynor: So if you're an artist or a podcaster, like you, Ellen, or a scientist or a manager, a teacher, and you love that work and you do it exceptionally well for God's glory and the good of others, I don't think it's crazy to expect that you'll be engaged in that occupation forever free from the curse of sin, right?
• 22:37
  Jordan Raynor: So that's one guess about the work we'll be doing for eternity.
• 22:39
  Jordan Raynor: Here's the second I think we may finish the work that we leave unfinished in this life, because the New Testament promises some continuity between this life and the next for our bodies, for the earth and even some of the work of our hands.
• 22:55
  Jordan Raynor: I think it stands to reason that we'll have the chance to continue working on some of the unfinished symphonies of this life.
• 23:02
  Jordan Raynor: One of the founders of Fuller Theological Seminary agrees, saying, quote we will be permitted to finish many of those worthy tasks which we had dreamed to do while on earth but which neither time nor strength nor ability allowed us to achieve.
• 23:19
  Jordan Raynor: End quote so beautiful.
• 23:20
  Jordan Raynor: Here's my third and final guess.
• 23:22
  Jordan Raynor: I think on the new earth we may do the work we wanted to do in this life but, for whatever reason, couldn't.
• 23:30
  Jordan Raynor: Maybe you're listening right now and you're like man.
• 23:35
  Jordan Raynor: I know in my bones that God made me to be an astronaut, but, for whatever reason, you were born in a time and place that made that impossible.
• 23:44
  Jordan Raynor: Or maybe you're listening like man.
• 23:45
  Jordan Raynor: I know that God made me be a great novelist, but life happened and I had to simply get a J-O-B and pay the bills and put writing on the back burner.
• 23:54
  Jordan Raynor: Hey, if that's, it is perfectly in line with God's character to give his people the desires of their heart, including, I believe, their desires for their work.
• 24:07
  Jordan Raynor: As one biblical scholar puts it, quote the work on the other side, whatever be its character will be adapted to each one's special aptitude and powers.
• 24:15
  Jordan Raynor: It will be the work he can do best, the work that will give the fullest play to all that is within them.
• 24:23
  Jordan Raynor: End quote.
• 24:24
  Jordan Raynor: Here's how I put it for my kids and yours and the royal and you, I said perhaps you'll bulldoze roads for new cities or help lead the Jesus Welcome Committee or create a new sport, with no need to worry about getting hurt or needing to hurry.
• 24:37
  Jordan Raynor: Maybe you'll explore galaxies far, far away and marvel at what God once made in a day right.
• 24:44
  Jordan Raynor: So again, this is all imaginative.
• 24:47
  Jordan Raynor: We don't know that there's space travel in the new heavens and the new earth, but, using our biblically baptized imaginations, I don't think it's that far fetched to imagine doing work that we love to do, because our desires will be purified and perfectly in line with the desires of our Heavenly Father.
• 25:07
  Ellen Krause: You know, when I hear you say all that, I mean I'm over here like beaming with excitement.
• 25:14
  Ellen Krause: Because I do think about that, because and I'll give you an example my husband and I, for our anniversary last month, we went to see the Chicago Symphony and it was phenomenal.
• 25:40
  Ellen Krause: I mean up, Ellen, why did you stop playing clarinet?
• 25:43
  Ellen Krause: I played clarinet all the way through college.
• 25:46
  Ellen Krause: I was in our youth symphony.
• 25:48
  Ellen Krause: I loved orchestra.
• 25:50
  Ellen Krause: But you know, it's like college happened.
• 25:52
  Ellen Krause: I couldn't have room in my schedule and all these other things.
• 25:56
  Ellen Krause: But then I did.
• 25:59
  Ellen Krause: I said to myself you know what?
• 26:00
  Ellen Krause: But then I did.
• 26:02
  Ellen Krause: I said to myself you know what, Maybe in heaven, on the new earth, one day I'll be able to play my clarinet again.
• 26:10
  Jordan Raynor: Yes, oh, my gosh, Ellen, I love that you've made that connection, because this has been one of the most freeing truths of my life.
• 26:23
  Jordan Raynor: The more I've meditated on this biblical promise not speculation of work we love on the new earth, it's just made me so much less hurried in the present.
• 26:34
  Jordan Raynor: It's made me so much less obsessive about having to do all the things and try all the things I want to try.
• 26:41
  Jordan Raynor: I'm going to have billions of years.
• 26:44
  Jordan Raynor: The list of things I want to do professionally could not be longer.
• 26:48
  Jordan Raynor: Right, like I want to write a musical, I want to be a travel planner, I want to design a bookstore, I want to serve as personal photographer to a president or dignitary.
• 26:58
  Jordan Raynor: I could go on and on, and on and on and on.
• 27:00
  Jordan Raynor: Right.
• 27:01
  Jordan Raynor: And if I think that this is my only chance to do all those things, gosh.
• 27:06
  Jordan Raynor: That's depressing because I know I'm not going to get to it.
• 27:08
  Jordan Raynor: But knowing that I'm going to have forever to do work that brings Christ glory.
• 27:15
  Jordan Raynor: It helps me to focus more on the work he's called me to do right now and get laser focus on the few things he's called me to do.
• 27:23
  Jordan Raynor: Well, because I know I'm not truly sacrificing those other things, because when I arise from the nap, that is death, if the desires in my heart are still aligned with God's desires after he purifies me from all sin it's perfectly in line with this character to give me those things to do for his greater glory and my greater joy, and that I cannot tell you how profound that truth has been for me the older and older I get.
• 27:53
  Jordan Raynor: I'm still a pretty young guy, but, uh, it's grown sweeter and sweeter.
• 27:57
  Jordan Raynor: Uh, as I'm staring down, 40 right around the corner.
• 28:00
  Jordan Raynor: Oh boy, oh boy, as I'm staring down, 40 right around the corner.
• 28:05
  Ellen Krause: Oh boy, oh boy, I've got you beat by a few, so you're not alone there.
• 28:10
  Ellen Krause: Jordan, thank you too for sharing that excitement and I hope, if you're listening to this today, I think you should just go down sort of the trail that Jordan and I just did, like what is something that you maybe had to let go and would like to go back to and maybe, maybe that'll kickstart your you know, reinvigorate your joy for what happened in the new earth are intended to be, Jordan.
• 28:41
  Ellen Krause: I wanted to switch back to the kids a little bit.
• 28:45
  Ellen Krause: What's been the reaction that you've seen from the kids who have read the book and sort of are getting this greater sense of excitement for what heaven and the new earth will be?
• 28:59
  Jordan Raynor: Oh, this is why I'm so excited about this book.
• 29:01
  Jordan Raynor: I'll tell you a quick story to illustrate this.
• 29:02
  Jordan Raynor: So I was reading the book to this fifth grade class that I teach every Sunday at school.
• 29:10
  Jordan Raynor: I promise I did not lead the witness, I just read the book, put it down and asked the kids hey, what does this mean for your life today?
• 29:23
  Jordan Raynor: And Hunter, this 10-year-old, raises his hand and he says well, I guess it means that I don't have to worry about doing everything I want to do before I die.
• 29:37
  Jordan Raynor: Wow.
• 29:39
  Jordan Raynor: And I'm like ding ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
• 29:41
  Jordan Raynor: That's it, hunter.
• 29:42
  Jordan Raynor: Right, that kid is freed from the bucket list burden.
• 29:47
  Jordan Raynor: He is free to spend his life per Christ's command, because he knows this isn't the only chance to do it.
• 29:59
  Jordan Raynor: All.
• 29:59
  Jordan Raynor: Man, and just the joy on these kids' faces as they envision an eternal future with the risen Christ and all of the good things that God created, free from the mar of sin man.
• 30:18
  Jordan Raynor: It just makes them so much more excited about spending eternity with our Lord, and my hope is that, by cultivating their excitement of spending eternity with God on the new earth, that it will cultivate their excitement of spending this life with him in a more intimate way right now, because they worship Jesus not just as King of heaven, but as King of heaven and earth.
• 30:44
  Jordan Raynor: That is relevant to every single aspect of their lives.
• 30:49
  Ellen Krause: Yes, absolutely and really.
• 30:51
  Ellen Krause: That ties in too with wanting to share the good news with someone who doesn't know so that they can experience this as well, one who doesn't know, so that they can experience this as well, 100%.
• 31:03
  Jordan Raynor: I just got an email the other day from a woman who read my book for grownups on this topic called the Sacredness of Psychic Work.
• 31:10
  Jordan Raynor: There's a whole chapter in there called Half-Truths About Heaven.
• 31:13
  Jordan Raynor: That unpacks what I'm unpacking in kid form in the Royal Innu.
• 31:16
  Jordan Raynor: This woman's a big CEO, big company.
• 31:19
  Jordan Raynor: She's like Jordan.
• 31:20
  Jordan Raynor: I have never been good at sharing my faith with others, but since reading that chapter about the new earth, I can't stop telling others about Jesus because for the first time in my life I am actually excited, genuinely, about spending eternity with my Lord on the new earth.
• 31:44
  Ellen Krause: Yeah, that's a very powerful testimony of just when you open your mind to accepting what the Bible really does have to say, it can really be life-changing.
• 31:59
  Jordan Raynor: Amen.
• 31:59
  Ellen Krause: Well, as we start to wrap things up here, what are some practical things that parents can do with their kids to help cultivate this hope of heaven on earth?
• 32:11
  Jordan Raynor: Yeah, I'll give you five things.
• 32:12
  Jordan Raynor: Number one read what scripture, rather than culture, says about heaven.
• 32:15
  Jordan Raynor: By the way, when I'm talking about culture, I'm also including church culture here.
• 32:20
  Jordan Raynor: Go to God's word, not your Christian bookstore, first and foremost.
• 32:23
  Jordan Raynor: So specific passages Genesis 1 and 2, revelation 21 and 22.
• 32:28
  Jordan Raynor: Read them back to back.
• 32:29
  Jordan Raynor: You want to know how the story ends.
• 32:30
  Jordan Raynor: Go to the story's beginning.
• 32:31
  Jordan Raynor: God didn't need a plan B.
• 32:33
  Jordan Raynor: He's sovereign.
• 32:34
  Jordan Raynor: So go read the book of the scripture.
• 32:36
  Jordan Raynor: Read Isaiah 11, isaiah 65, isaiah 60.
• 32:40
  Jordan Raynor: Number two I actually do this with my kids as much as I can.
• 32:43
  Jordan Raynor: Take your kids' gem mining.
• 32:46
  Jordan Raynor: If you've got young kids with Revelation 21 in hand, that passage tells us which gems will line the foundations of the New Jerusalem Turquoise, agate, onyx, etc.
• 32:58
  Jordan Raynor: Etc.
• 32:58
  Jordan Raynor: Almost all of those gems can be found at your average gem mining experience.
• 33:03
  Jordan Raynor: So take your kids, read Revelation 21, and blow their minds that the new Jerusalem will be covered with 5,600 miles of those stones.
• 33:19
  Jordan Raynor: That'll blow their minds and cultivate their hope.
• 33:21
  Jordan Raynor: Number three go stargazing.
• 33:23
  Jordan Raynor: Go on a nature walk, get outside and imagine how much more brilliant it will all be on the new earth, free from the curse of sin right.
• 33:32
  Jordan Raynor: Number four ask your kids questions about the new earth around the dinner table.
• 33:36
  Jordan Raynor: The word heaven is almost never spoken in my house, unless we are talking about the kingdom of heaven.
• 33:43
  Jordan Raynor: Right, because my wife and I are intentional about asking our girls about the new earth.
• 33:48
  Jordan Raynor: For example, we ask them hey, what's the first thing you want to do on the new earth?
• 33:51
  Jordan Raynor: What's one gift you would love to bring Jesus on the new earth?
• 33:55
  Jordan Raynor: What jobs would you love King Jesus to give you on the new earth?
• 33:59
  Jordan Raynor: Love King Jesus to give you on the new earth.
• 34:05
  Jordan Raynor: And then fifth, as a practical way to cultivate the true hope of heaven on earth and your kids, read the Royal and you Find a handful of other picture books about the new earth on Amazon.
• 34:12
  Jordan Raynor: Johnny Erickson Tata has an excellent one as well.
• 34:15
  Jordan Raynor: But read books like this that baptize your kids' imagination about the true hope of heaven on earth.
• 34:24
  Ellen Krause: Great suggestions, Jordan.
• 34:26
  Ellen Krause: I read a book about the Taj Mahal and I remember just being astounded at what all was involved to include all of those gems and what it took to get the materials.
• 34:45
  Ellen Krause: But then, when you read in the Bible what it talks about the new Jerusalem just blows that away.
• 34:53
  Jordan Raynor: Blows it away.
• 34:53
  Jordan Raynor: Blows it away.
• 34:56
  Ellen Krause: It's just, it's mind blowing.
• 34:58
  Ellen Krause: So there's so, so much to explore on this topic.
• 35:01
  Ellen Krause: Jordan, I'm going to let people turn to your resources to do that.
• 35:06
  Ellen Krause: Tell them where they can find more information about you and the book?
• 35:11
  Jordan Raynor: Yeah, absolutely, so.
• 35:12
  Jordan Raynor: You can find a bunch of free resources on this topic at jordanraynor.
• 35:14
  Jordan Raynor: com, and the book that we've been talking about for kids is called The Royal in You and it's available wherever books are sold.
• 35:23
  Ellen Krause: Awesome.
• 35:24
  Ellen Krause: Okay, we will make sure we include those links in our show notes before we go Jordan.
• 35:30
  Ellen Krause: I'm going to ask you one question this time, because you've been on our show before.
• 35:34
  Ellen Krause: What is your latest um Bible study tool that you have been enjoying using to help you create the content that you do?
• 35:45
  Jordan Raynor: Yeah, oh man, so I'm a.
• 35:49
  Jordan Raynor: My friend, Mark Barrison, talks a lot about this the law of requisite variety, right?
• 35:54
  Jordan Raynor: In other words, once you've got a routine, it's probably time to change up the routine, and I think that's true of a lot of things, but particularly true of studying God's word.
• 36:05
  Jordan Raynor: For those of us who have been following Jesus for a really long time because I don't think I'm on, I'm on an Island here Um, sometimes I sit in front of the word and don't feel proper, all and worship, uh, at the God of the universe that that word is showing me, because it's become so familiar, right, and so I'm constantly changing up my Bible study habits.
• 36:29
  Jordan Raynor: Here's one that's been a game changer for me.
• 36:30
  Jordan Raynor: I've been doing it for about four months now.
• 36:32
  Jordan Raynor: I bought a Bible with wide margins to take notes in, and I am slowly writing notes to my daughter, who's currently 10.
• 36:46
  Jordan Raynor: And my plan is, when she turns 18, to hand over that Bible with these notes that I wrote specifically for her in it.
• 36:55
  Jordan Raynor: And I'll tell you what it's been a game.
• 36:59
  Jordan Raynor: I have not been this excited to wake up in the morning getting to God's word in a long time, and it's also helping me study the word in a more rigorous way, because if I'm going to be telling my daughter thus, saith the Lord, I want to make 100% sure I know what the word says.
• 37:20
  Jordan Raynor: So that's my current, current habit.
• 37:23
  Jordan Raynor: I'm loving it.
• 37:24
  Ellen Krause: Oh, I love that.
• 37:25
  Ellen Krause: That is so, so awesome.
• 37:27
  Ellen Krause: Oh, my goodness.
• 37:28
  Ellen Krause: Well, you know you'd have to do that two more times.
• 37:31
  Jordan Raynor: I know, oh, I'm aware.
• 37:36
  Ellen Krause: Oh boy.
• 37:36
  Ellen Krause: Well, jordan, thank you so much for being here today to share with us this fresh perspective on how we can interact with our children, to encourage them on what eternity with God will truly look like.
• 37:52
  Jordan Raynor: My pleasure.
• 37:54
  Ellen Krause: All right and for our listeners.
• 37:56
  Ellen Krause: If you would like a deeper dive into this topic, make sure to check out Jordan's book the Royal In you.
• 38:03
  Ellen Krause: It's a wonderful resource to help kids see heaven through the lens of hope and anticipation.
• 38:10
  Ellen Krause: We will make sure we have the links to that in our show notes.
• 38:14
  Ellen Krause: We love you all.
• 38:15
  Ellen Krause: We appreciate you so much listening.
• 38:17
  Ellen Krause: Have a blessed day.