Latest / TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast / Ten31 Timestamp: The Die Is Cast
Transcript
- 0:00John, here we are, another Monday morning, another 1031 timestamp recap.
- 0:05Every week, another timestamp, another Sunday night Bitcoin dump to get the juices flowing.
- 0:11Hey, the liquidity alarm bell's going off. I just recorded with Michael Howard just talking about it.
- 0:15It looks like liquidity is turning over. We've peaked in the liquidity cycle going to a liquidity trough.
- 0:22But we're not here to discuss that. We're here to discuss the timestamp.
- 0:26rain, snow, sleet. We'll get through it. We just got 30 inches of snow here in the Philadelphia
- 0:30area. I've got kids home from school crying downstairs. I can hear them right now. I apologize
- 0:36if you can hear them too, but the show must go on. If you haven't subscribed to the 1031 timestamp
- 0:43or know what we're doing here, John writes a newsletter for 1031 every Saturday. It goes out.
- 0:48You can sign up for that at 1031timestamp.com. That's T-E-N-31timestamp.com. Make sure you get
- 0:56on the list. And this week, we're talking about the reality distortion field, a concept that
- 1:02Steve Jobs popularized. Why did you decide to lead off with this this week, John?
- 1:07Yeah, it just, it popped into my head this week after seeing a couple headlines.
- 1:13You know, I just, I couldn't get it out of my mind, this idea. For those who haven't read the
- 1:17jobs bio or seen his various biopics of him over the last 20 years. He's known for having a level of
- 1:25some would say charisma, some would say brilliance, some would say abusive personality,
- 1:29whatever, you know, some combination of all of them as most mercurial founders kind of often do.
- 1:33You know, he had the ability through all those different things to warp reality to his liking,
- 1:39right? To get people to do things that anyone else would have dismissed as like structurally
- 1:44or like physically impossible, these feats of engineering and product design that everyone
- 1:48else would have thought impossible. And he just basically brute forced it into reality.
- 1:52And it kind of occurred to me, like, as I was looking at headlines this week,
- 1:55everyone kind of has their own reality distortion field, but it usually for most people, it just
- 1:59kind of runs in the other direction. Like you take reality and then you mold it in your head
- 2:03and in kind of like, you know, group think to with those around you to kind of massage it into a
- 2:08narrative that is flattering to your preconceived notions about the way the world works, how you
- 2:13want it to work. And everybody is that way. I'm that way. Marty's that way. So no special kind of
- 2:19carve out for us here. You know, it's like the Garfield meme, you're not immune to propaganda.
- 2:22And that's true for everyone. But I feel like you really see it excessively in kind of late stage
- 2:27sclerotic institutions like we kind of have right now. And there were just a couple examples of that
- 2:33this week that I feel like really are a good microcosm for the way that our institutions are
- 2:38trending and the way the world's trending, kind of the developed Western world. And so one of them
- 2:42is the Supreme Court ruling against Trump, President Trump, and his tariff agenda originally
- 2:49authorized under IEPA, which is a 70s kind of Emergency Powers Act, and a six to three decision
- 2:55that included some Republican appointees, Trump appointees kind of going against him,
- 2:59overturning that and saying that he can't use IEPA to justify those tariffs. And you saw quickly
- 3:05like this cascade of kind of celebratory headlines in certain mainstream media outlets saying,
- 3:11you know, this is a massive defeat for Trump, a massive blow to his agenda. And without having
- 3:17any opinion one way or the other on the quality of this idea, the quality of tariffs, the desirability
- 3:22of them, whatever, that's a whole different thing we can get into. But, you know, just to me,
- 3:26just seemed like such a weird kind of victory dance that people were doing if you didn't like
- 3:30Trump, because as this chart from this convenient chart from Bloomberg shows, and as Trump and
- 3:36Besson and Lutnick and the rest have been previewing for like a year, there are many other kind of
- 3:40ways to skin this cat from the executive branch. I think over the weekend already, maybe it was
- 3:45section 301. The one in the middle was basically rolled out to justify a new set of blanket
- 3:51tariffs. But the point is like, we've clearly entered a different stage of like global commerce.
- 3:59The global economic reordering is proceeding apace. And the Trump administration and his
- 4:05officials are just not going to look at a Supreme Court decision and say, well, you know, rats, we
- 4:11would do this, this key bulwark of our economic and policy agenda, if not for that dastardly
- 4:17Supreme Court. And I guess, I guess now we can't do it because, you know, checks and balances.
- 4:21You know, the reality is like, because of the way that America has progressively installed more and
- 4:27more kind of unaccountable executive power in the executive branch, as illustrated by, you know,
- 4:32this, this set of options that is still before Trump, this is like happening one way or the
- 4:35other. And I think it's just, it's interesting to watch the financial press act like there's any
- 4:41reality in which Trump just throws up his hands and says, oh, well, I guess I can't do it.
- 4:45And it just says a lot about the divided reality that kind of, we still live in where a certain
- 4:51contingency, a certain constituent constituency has a, has a dominant narrative that they'll use
- 4:55to kind of mold what they see as reality. And then there's kind of reality itself, which seems to be
- 5:00maybe going progressively in the other direction. It is laughable. I mean, we're 11 years into the
- 5:05Trumpian politic, if you will, if you include his campaigning for the 2016 election in that
- 5:11timescale. And it's just, will anybody ever learn? He's going to get his way one way or another,
- 5:17whether or not, again, to your point, we agree with the way in which he gets, it doesn't really
- 5:20matter. He's going to get his way. And it was funny. I think Scott Besson had a presser, what
- 5:26was it, Friday afternoon, like within hours of the Supreme Court ruling. Well, okay, here,
- 5:30We're pivoting to enact the tariffs in these ways, through these means and in these avenues.
- 5:36The show must go on.
- 5:37And then Trump quickly followed up with, all right, 10% tariffs across the board.
- 5:41You know what?
- 5:42Wait, actually 15% now.
- 5:43And so we live in this very, very weird reality.
- 5:48Yeah.
- 5:48You know, the subtitle for this week was there's no fishing in the Rubicon, which is like an
- 5:52image I really like of, you know, Caesar famously crossing the Rubicon, this pivotal moment in
- 5:57kind of the fall of the Roman Republic.
- 5:59and saying perhaps apocryphally,
- 6:02like the die is cast, the die has been cast.
- 6:04This is like going, this image of kind of going
- 6:06across this line that you can't go back from.
- 6:09You don't go halfway across the line
- 6:10and then like sit there in the river and fish.
- 6:12Like if you go, you gotta go.
- 6:14And I think over the last year,
- 6:16so much has been said by both Trump
- 6:17and people in his administration and industry leaders, right?
- 6:20Not even just Trump himself, but like companies kind of,
- 6:23even if they're just currying political favor,
- 6:25like CEOs acknowledging the erosion
- 6:27of the industrial base in the US
- 6:28and the position that puts us in from a defense perspective, a national security perspective,
- 6:33outsourcing everything to China to the point that we can't go to war without China's permission.
- 6:37That was always happening for decades, but now the band-aid has been ripped off and everyone
- 6:41knows that everyone knows because of this past year.
- 6:44We have what Trump has done this past year.
- 6:45And so once you start down that road you don go back You don get to say like well the Supreme Court said I can use IEPA for tariffs So I guess we just gonna you know let all bygones be bygones and act like that didn happen Like everyone knows that everyone knows And so you know there no
- 6:58fishing in the Rubicon, like, you got to keep going for better or worse, right? That's probably
- 7:03gonna involve a lot of pain. I'm not saying that's like, a wonderful thing that I wish on the country
- 7:06or the world, whatever. But just like, the reality is, probably we're not turning back just because
- 7:11of, you know, a procedural dispute over how Trump does it. No, there is no turning back. And
- 7:16They're getting more explicit with this, too.
- 7:17I mean, it's not directly connected to the tariff rolling from the Supreme Court and the quick pivot right after.
- 7:24But I'm not sure if you saw.
- 7:25I don't know if this was an old clip that resurfaced last week.
- 7:28I'm pretty sure it was a new interview, but Marco Rubio was on Fox News talking about the fact that the dollar reserve status is not ever going to be what it used to be.
- 7:37Like the world is moving towards a multipolar, multi-currency sort of regime, and the U.S. has to be prepared for that.
- 7:44And so that was, again, I don't recall if it was a resurfaced clip.
- 7:48I'm pretty sure it was a fresh clip from last week.
- 7:50And I was like, wow, the fact that they're actually admitting this on Fox News is pretty, not startling, but pretty crazy just to see.
- 7:58Yeah, I didn't see the clip and I don't know if it's new or not, but I think it aligns with everything that they spent two weeks in Davos saying like last month, right?
- 8:07telling the global elite how things were going to change. And I mean, everyone from Trump to Vance
- 8:12to the trade rep, Jameson Greer, you know, he gave a speech to that effect, basically calling for like
- 8:17a new Hamiltonian system to people in Europe. And so, I mean, like the, there's been too much kind
- 8:23of publicly said about like all this and yeah, you're not gonna be able to put that genie back
- 8:26in the bottle now. So yeah, I just think there's still a lot of heel dragging in kind of mainstream
- 8:32thinking. And, you know, that's just at odds with, with reality. And the other, the other kind of big
- 8:38headline that led me to think about like reality distortion field over the weekend was just the,
- 8:43the fed minutes that, that came out this past week, which is basically had interestingly,
- 8:48like had suggested, you still got this divided fed. We're still kind of like arguing over the
- 8:53path of rate cuts and how fast should they go? How many should we have this year? You've got
- 8:57some officials saying, well, maybe we should have two sided language to suggest that there's still
- 9:00possibility for rate hikes later in the year, you know, very much opposed to the direction that
- 9:05the administration wants to take things and, you know, potentially opposed to what's even
- 9:10theoretically doable and feasible with the path of, you know, the budget and the administration's
- 9:14priorities this year and the next few years. And so that kind of whole narrative, this whole like
- 9:18hand-wringing about, should we go 25 basis points now, or should we wait three months, like whatever,
- 9:22I found to be very at odds with the latest treasury documents on the quarterly refunding
- 9:29announcement that they put out every quarter, just highlighting the expected budget funding
- 9:34and deficits and a bunch of different dynamics that go into what they're going to need to go to
- 9:37market with. And so if you pull up that second chart, I think it really speaks nicely to exactly
- 9:44the divide at play here between kind of what the Fed thinks it can do and what Treasury thinks it's
- 9:50going to do. It's a bit of a complicated chart, but basically the red bars on top of the blue
- 9:55bars are, if you can see down at the bottom, SOMA bill purchase effects. So this is the idea
- 9:59of what the Fed is going to absorb and it's on its balance sheet from treasury bill issuance.
- 10:05So like short dated bills and this maps roughly, you're just eyeballing it here, but maps roughly
- 10:10to about like $480 billion annually, which if you remember the pace of the RMP program,
- 10:17so reserve management purchases from December 25, it was like 40 million a month initially.
- 10:22And then suppose that was supposed to kind of come down and be, you know, kind of roll off to like 20 or less over time.
- 10:28Well, 480 is 40 times 12. And so I don't know that they're necessarily just kind of like flatlining that pace.
- 10:33But either way, like this speaks to an assumption that the Fed is going to be out there buying more bills consistently for the next like at least eight years.
- 10:45on a much more consistent pace and at a much higher clip than Powell was suggesting in December
- 10:52when they first rolled out the R&P concept. And so I think this chart is basically telling you
- 10:56like net new information relative to at least like Treasury's assumption about what's going to happen
- 11:01versus what the Fed was originally pitching where a couple months ago, where the R&Ps were supposed
- 11:06to be front loaded at 40 and then slowly kind of roll off and not necessarily be necessary for all
- 11:12that long. This is looking at them. This is looking at that kind of program as something
- 11:16that is going to be a structural, a structural buyer that's in place for, for many years to come.
- 11:20And so that's piece one of just like, we've got the, you know, the hand wringing at the fed
- 11:25dithering over like, you know, what we should do with like short end rates. And maybe we should
- 11:29even raise rates. And meanwhile, treasury is kind of doing, doing the Leroy Jenkins thing and just
- 11:33saying, you know, no, we're going to be, you can, you can have whatever conversations you want on
- 11:37rates, but we're explicitly building funding plans and the budget with your consistent
- 11:44participation at these levels.
- 11:47That's number one on this chart.
- 11:49And correct me if I'm wrong, R&P was instituted to help smooth over overnight repo spasms?
- 11:56Yeah.
- 11:57So the language around it was about ensuring adequate, I forget their exact language.
- 12:02They've got three gradations of reserve levels in the banking system.
- 12:05there's like there's ample and then like some something that means like sub ample and i forget
- 12:10but it's there like three of them um but we had moved allegedly into a regime of like less than
- 12:16you know fully excessive and starting to get into like a somewhat less comfortable position in the
- 12:21banking system and so rmpe was among other kind of factors intended to address the what was being
- 12:28seen as like an increasing move toward like a shortfall of or a scarcity of reserves in the
- 12:32bank system. And also smooths over your right, the repo dynamics that were acting up a lot more
- 12:39late last year and have smoothed out a little bit early this year. So this is like, to your point,
- 12:45I think like kind of stop gap type funding that we can eventually roll off. Surprise, surprise,
- 12:50is assumed to actually become something kind of structural and consistent and long-term in Asia.
- 12:54Yeah. Nothing is, there's no such thing as a temporary government policy. No, it's the sort
- 13:01of conflict of what's actually happening behind the scenes and what they're saying during these
- 13:07meetings the fomc meetings can be more stark it's like well you're saying maybe we need to write
- 13:11hike rates there we go we may need to and then the back end you're injecting liquidity to make
- 13:19sure that everything's okay the overnight banking system yeah the other the other piece on this
- 13:24chart that people may notice is you know you got these blue dots and these these orange dots up on
- 13:28top and it's hard to read the legend,
- 13:30but basically the blue dots are the CBO's estimates for,
- 13:34for borrowing for deficits over this period.
- 13:37This may just be gross borrowing not deficits but either way CBO and even the OMB like both significantly higher you notice than the total amount that a treasury is forecasting
- 13:48And, you know, I think it's also like, I believe what this is telling you is
- 13:53treasury is taking a very optimistic view of the borrowing that will be necessary over this time
- 13:58period relative to what's already baked into, say, the CBO estimates, which are famously
- 14:03themselves usually too conservative relative to what actually plays out if you look on like a,
- 14:08you know, five-year forward kind of basis. So I think this chart is also effectively assuming
- 14:14like that we, because of GDP growth and because of having, you know, the AI productivity boom and
- 14:22miracle that we're going to have that worst and best I think we're going to have, you know,
- 14:25we can move into a period of much less borrowing and smaller deficits thanks to the massive growth
- 14:32from the real economy that we're going to have. And so as I look at this, I'm also like, even the
- 14:35gross amount is like pretty, pretty rosy of what you'd have to borrow. And if the idea is as, as
- 14:42the QRA documents we're talking about for, for this cycle, one of the big focus points is not,
- 14:47is how can you manage the degree to which a private balance sheets have to absorb incremental
- 14:52treasury issuance? And so if the idea is that we want to hold that blue bar down to these levels,
- 14:57or at least keep the proportions the same, but the total amount has to actually be a lot higher
- 15:01than we're showing here.
- 15:01And it looks more like the blue dots or the orange dots
- 15:03than the bars that are shown on the page.
- 15:06Then you get to a position where it's like,
- 15:07well, the backfill is gonna have to be that effectively
- 15:10the red bar has to get a lot higher, right?
- 15:12So not only are we assuming that something like RMP
- 15:16continues on a consistent basis for much longer,
- 15:19maybe even to, if, you know, something,
- 15:21if there's a hitch in the AI story,
- 15:23if we don't get crazy GDP growth,
- 15:24if we have even modest recession,
- 15:26if, you know, AI takes even a small amount
- 15:29of white collar jobs
- 15:29and you need a lot more spending on the back end,
- 15:32or if we need even more aggressive ramping
- 15:34and national defense spending, whatever,
- 15:36perhaps that red bar also has to even itself
- 15:39get a lot higher effectively, right?
- 15:41So I think, again, just there's this like,
- 15:43this conflict between what we want to happen,
- 15:46yeah, what we hope can happen
- 15:48and what our assumptions suggest can happen
- 15:50and then kind of like what reality is throwing at us.
- 15:53And so again, some reality distortion
- 15:55can add play in our key institutions here.
- 15:58How do you think Bitcoin,
- 15:59I mean, obviously it's not going to play into these privately held net marketable borrowing markets, but it will be affected by the policy as it's instituted at the time it's instituted, as we know.
- 16:11Similarly, with government policies, the projections are always way off base.
- 16:15So I think it's safe to assume that these bar charts will be much larger when, as time passes,
- 16:23and we actually get to the point where they have to make the decisions on the issuance of these treasuries and these RMP facilities.
- 16:35Where does Bitcoin play?
- 16:36I think bringing Bitcoin in now, particularly just talking about the elephant in the room,
- 16:41which is Bitcoin's performance over the last six months, the last four months, really,
- 16:46since it hit all time high in late October, early November, we had another drop off last
- 16:52night.
- 16:52We got on the one day chart.
- 16:53We puked up.
- 16:54We're recovering from them.
- 16:56But obviously, in the last month, we had the fall from 90K to 62K, taps 59K at one point,
- 17:04hovering at 65,850 right now.
- 17:08Many people are wondering what's going on with Bitcoin.
- 17:12It's supposed to be this digital gold asset
- 17:16that's supposed to, I mean, we talked about it a few weeks ago, Bitcoin is not a hedge, but many people
- 17:20perceive it to be such. And people are looking at Bitcoin's performance
- 17:24particularly juxtaposed to gold, silver, and even the NASDAQ
- 17:28and looking at this massive disconnect. And I'm worried, is Bitcoin broken? Is it
- 17:32dead. What's going on here? Yeah, it's definitely a point of concern that we think about all the
- 17:36time as folks who are highly levered to Bitcoin's price action. I mean, there's the old saying that
- 17:42Bitcoin is dumpiest before pumpiest. And I think that's a very, very technically sophisticated way
- 17:48to look at it. But I think probably it's maybe a little overdone at this point, depending on how
- 17:54on Bitcoin Twitter you are. But I do think there's a degree of accuracy in the idea that Bitcoin is
- 18:00this liquidity smoke alarm. And, you know, you referenced your talk with Michael Howell earlier.
- 18:04I won't like spoil that for people and can't wait to listen to it. But, you know, it's pretty clear
- 18:08that we have not had in the last few months, if you've been following his work or anyone else who
- 18:13tracks similar metrics, a major liquidity tailwind. You've had, if you look at the Fed's balance sheet
- 18:19over, you know, a lengthy time period, you've had these major step ups in the size of the balance
- 18:24sheet. And then we had a few years of, you know, QT runoff that was very aggressive, kind of backfill
- 18:30by activist treasury issuance.
- 18:33You know, you've talked about it a good deal on your show,
- 18:35treasury shifting much more to front-end issuance.
- 18:37And that was a pro-liquidity impulse for a while.
- 18:40But, you know, we may be running up on the limits of that,
- 18:44especially when we also now are looking to spend much more
- 18:47into the real economy and potentially out of financial assets.
- 18:51You know, we're giving a bid to, you know, manufacturing.
- 18:53We're giving a bid to data center construction.
- 18:55We're giving a bid to industrials and defense.
- 18:58And, you know, increasingly the there's there's less potentially capital out there in a non Fed supportive world to flow into, you know, classic financial assets.
- 19:08And so I think if you to me, the story of the Fed's balance sheet really tells the tale.
- 19:13We're kind of flatlined now at this. We basically came back down like right to where where that level went to during kind of spring 2020.
- 19:20So we've worked off everything post call it like May, June, 2020, which frankly, it's pretty incredible that Bitcoin did what it did against that kind of like monetary base headwind.
- 19:28And now we're just kind of hanging out. Right. And I think it's going to be, I think the market is digesting a lot of, is digesting that, digesting the AI story and how that's going to affect a lot of different asset classes, which we could maybe get into.
- 19:41And then I think digesting also like what is the stance of this incoming Fed? You know, if Warsh gets confirmed, which is not a not a given, is he going to be, you know, fully subordinate to the treasuries or let's let's say in partnership with, you know, what what Treasury wants to do and what Besson wants to do?
- 19:59And what will that actually mean in terms of like liquidity, broad liquidity support and the direction of the Fed balance sheet?
- 20:04I have, you know, as we just discussed, I have my suspicions about where that ultimately ends up.
- 20:09But historically, you also have needed like some kind of crisis panic moment for policymakers, especially monetary policymakers, to really kind of recognize to get out of their reality distortion field, recognize the situation that they're in and, you know, step on the gas to do the only thing that they really can do.
- 20:26Right.
- 20:26So I think we in kind of a holding pattern of processing a lot of different crosswinds And yeah it tough to say what the next three to six are gonna look like not just for Bitcoin but yeah you know for everything Yeah and it will be interesting
- 20:39if some sort of liquidity crisis emerges
- 20:42between now and Warsh's nomination process
- 20:47because what do you think Jerome Powell would do
- 20:50in the interim, sort of a lame duck,
- 20:52Fed chair, a Fed chairman right now.
- 20:54And like, you could see the politics around that.
- 20:58if there's a liquidity crisis that emerges between now and Warsh's likely nomination and Jerome Powell's
- 21:04tasked with fixing a problem that arises. I can see him putting his hands up saying, hey,
- 21:09I'm about to leave. I don't want to make any decisions that the new Fed chairman will not like.
- 21:16I'm just thinking on the go here, but that could be an interesting situation.
- 21:20Yeah. I think ultimately every Fed chair does the same thing when push comes to shove.
- 21:24So I don't know like how, how strong his stomach would be to just kind of let, you know, to lose the long end or to let equity indices fall like 30% just to basically give Trump the middle finger, especially because that paints, that allows Trump to paint like a wonderful narrative that this idiot Powell kept rates too high.
- 21:40And then when, you know, the moment of truth, when he could have saved the economy, he, he, he stepped back and, you know, there's a reason for the DOJ to, you know, put Powell in jail for life.
- 21:48Right.
- 21:48So if I'm him, I like, I probably, you know, I don't know if I want to try to be a hero on that basis.
- 21:54But so, yeah, I don't really think that he would throw his hands up and just kind of like do nothing.
- 21:59I think the pressure is going to be too great from a variety of fronts.
- 22:01But also Powell doesn't necessarily have, you know, I can't remember the exact mechanics by which like the decisions get made by the FOMC.
- 22:07But, you know, it isn't ultimately Powell's final decision.
- 22:10And so if you want to vote on a board of 12.
- 22:12Yeah, right.
- 22:13So if there are a bunch of governors who are yet to say like, yeah, you may be gone in three months, but I'm here for the next like 10 years or whatever.
- 22:19And also I need I'm trying to retire on a reasonable time frame as well.
- 22:23And my bags need to be sufficiently pumped.
- 22:25I don't necessarily think that there's going to be a ton of appetite for just outright.
- 22:29Oh, wait, type, you know, collapse.
- 22:30Yeah.
- 22:32Over 26 minutes.
- 22:33We're trying to keep this at 30 minutes.
- 22:34I know you said there's some stuff in the real world economy we could expand on.
- 22:37But let's push that to next week because we do need to pat ourselves on the back.
- 22:43I mean, we warned everybody who was listening, I think, a few weeks ago now at this point that there were many people out there saying that the precipitous fall in Bitcoin's network hash rate a few weeks ago and the large downward difficulty adjustment of 11.7 percent was a signal that miners are leaving the Bitcoin network because of quantum fears.
- 23:04and a transition to HPC compute to service the expanding AI economy.
- 23:13Well, time has passed and we've had yet another difficulty adjustment.
- 23:17And it was a rather large upwards difficulty adjustment of 14.6% towards the end of last week.
- 23:24And that was because hash rate stormed back on the network, pun intended.
- 23:28And I think it's become clear in retrospect that the fall in hash rate that we witnessed a few weeks ago
- 23:34was due to the large winter storm that blew through the country, which necessitated that
- 23:40miners that are participating in demand response programs turn down to make sure there was enough
- 23:45electricity supply on the grids when the temperature dropped and people turned on
- 23:50their heating systems. And on top of that, I think there was also a number of mining facilities that
- 23:55were literally shut down because of inches of ice that overtook their operations. But time passed,
- 24:01The sun came out, the temperature rose, things thawed out, demand for electricity on the grid fell and miners were able to turn back on.
- 24:09Yeah. Yeah. I think we were making that exact case a couple of weeks ago.
- 24:13So not super surprising that it played out. The cynic in me looks at this and says, well, this is just a dead cat, dead cat bounce.
- 24:19But I, I, the optimist, which, which wins out says that that's just all part of the long-term trend of, of hash rate pumping forever.
- 24:25Um, but yeah, the one thing I'll say here is like, there were a lot of like tourism posts
- 24:29over the last couple of weeks pointing out this chart and saying, well, obviously, you know,
- 24:34it's a combination of a hash price is so low and a lot of miners are capitulating and they're
- 24:38going to be net sellers forever. And also like, they're just pivoting into AI and HPC capacity.
- 24:43And that's the reason for all this. And I would just say like, look, boys, like the last like
- 24:48two years has been like the HPC story didn't start like last week, right? Like this entire
- 24:52chart that you're seeing here, like HPC has been alive and well as like a, you know, a mining
- 24:56diversifier story for like multiple years across this entire chart. And yet hash rate continued to
- 25:01pump, right? Like hash price was, has been in a narrow band, you know, not a very impressive band,
- 25:05but a narrow band of like 30 to 50 bucks a petahash for basically this entire time that you're
- 25:09seeing on this chart and hash rate continue to pump. Right. So we can get into like maybe on
- 25:13another episode, what that means and who might be driving that. But, you know, to look at like a
- 25:17two week chart here and say, well, it must be because HPC or must be because hash price and
- 25:22minor death spiral, whatever, like, you know, you're identifying forces that have been at play
- 25:26for years at this point. And despite all that, like hash rate was up into the right, like the
- 25:29entire time, basically. So, you know, maybe, maybe as always zoom out a little bit, don't make any
- 25:34reads based on a two week chart. And, you know, think through how some of the trends at play have
- 25:38been affecting it for longer than that. And check the weather, check the weather, check the weather.
- 25:42Yeah. Yeah. Just last thing there, tie it up. I mean, one, like there was quantum people out
- 25:48there saying i mean that's the least valid of any of the arguments is put out there ai hbc compute
- 25:53we know there's publicly listed bitcoiners that are openly and aggressively transitioning to ai
- 26:00data centers and that's okay but like to think that that transition would result in just like a
- 26:06precipitous fall and hash rate is idiotic these are businesses that are run well i mean if they're
- 26:11going to diversify out of bitcoin into ai hbc compute they're going to sell their machines and
- 26:16who are they going to sell them to? They're going to sell them to people that want to plug them in.
- 26:19So yes, individual mining operations may be pivoting to AI compute, but they're going to
- 26:26sell the rigs. They're not just going to unplug them and sit on them. That would be a waste of
- 26:29capital, shareholder value, if you will. And then the other thing that I wanted to mention here is
- 26:36quickly escaping me. But in that same vein, I think, oh, and we could talk about this another
- 26:42time. The big, beautiful bill, I think, bring hash price into perspective. It is relatively low,
- 26:48not impressive, but I think there are countervailing forces, particularly via tax policy,
- 26:53that are making people sort of price agnostic in terms of hash price because of the sort of
- 27:01depreciation write-offs they can get by buying mining equipment and plugging it in. So yeah,
- 27:05that's the timestamp recap. A little over 30 minutes. John, thank you for writing. Thank you
- 27:09for joining me. I'm very much enjoying the show. I hope you are too. Same here. Look forward to
- 27:14every week. All right. See you guys next week.