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SYSK Selects: How Lion Taming Works · Stuff You Should Know

0:00
Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's me Josh, and for this week's s
0:04
Speaker 1: Y s K Select, I chose Lion Taming. Um. This
0:07
Speaker 1: one came from our Summer of Sam, chosen by Sam
0:11
Speaker 1: T Garden, who went on to become Sam the Intern,
0:14
Speaker 1: who will probably go on to become Sam the House
0:17
Speaker 1: Stuff Works employee at some point. Um, and I want
0:20
Speaker 1: you to take a particular note of the segment where
0:23
Speaker 1: we talk about how the Simpsons are known to predict
0:25
Speaker 1: the future. It's an excellent example of how connected our
0:28
Speaker 1: episodes are across the years. That or it's an example
0:32
Speaker 1: of us later unwittingly rehashing info we've already covered. At
0:37
Speaker 1: any rate, it's a good episode about an interesting topic.
0:39
Speaker 1: So I hope you enjoyed. Welcome to Stuff You Should
0:46
Speaker 1: Know from How Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome
0:55
Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryet.
1:00
Speaker 1: This is Stuff you should Know. Yeah, uh, this Josh
1:05
Speaker 1: is another episode of the Summer of Sam. Are are
1:10
Speaker 1: oh this kid is good? Yeah? Our friend Sam T
1:13
Speaker 1: Garden is programming our show here and there he and
1:18
Speaker 1: Samson and How Lion Taming Works, which is also written
1:21
Speaker 1: by Debbie Ronca, my buddy. Yeah from New Jersey roller
1:25
Speaker 1: Derby Debbie as I call her, I don't call her that, No,
1:29
Speaker 1: you don't, I call her debend If I call her
1:31
Speaker 1: roller Derber Debby, you did perfectly the first roller Derby Debby.
1:37
Speaker 1: That would just get difficult. Yeah. Um, well, right on,
1:41
Speaker 1: this one's just going to be great then, because it
1:43
Speaker 1: was a good article too. That's right. And you can
1:45
Speaker 1: read Debbie's awesome log at freak girl dot com. That's
1:48
Speaker 1: quite unplug um. And then where are we at with Sam? So?
1:52
Speaker 1: Sam has now selected how lion taming works? What was
1:55
Speaker 1: the first one? I can't remember. It was a couple
1:57
Speaker 1: of weeks ago. He's done too, Man, it was awesome.
1:59
Speaker 1: But we actually corded a couple that he had not
2:01
Speaker 1: heard yet that he also had on his list just
2:04
Speaker 1: by chance. We're going to attribute those to him, just
2:07
Speaker 1: just the ones that we saw afterwards. But anyway, thanks Sam,
2:10
Speaker 1: this is a good one. We'll put chuck. Um. Well,
2:15
Speaker 1: let's see. Uh, I have a bit of an intro.
2:18
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard the idea that the Simpsons have
2:20
Speaker 1: a tendency to predict the future? Uh? No, okay, Well
2:25
Speaker 1: let me enlighten you. Um. There was an episode called
2:30
Speaker 1: Um Homer h O m R. Season twelve, Episode nine,
2:35
Speaker 1: excellent episode. It's where Homer Um. Basically they find out
2:39
Speaker 1: that Homer is a crayons stuck in his brain, a
2:42
Speaker 1: crayon crayon from childhood and they were they removed it
2:45
Speaker 1: in his i Q just immediately doubles classic. In two
2:48
Speaker 1: thousand seven years after Homer Um, a German lady age
2:52
Speaker 1: fifty nine, UM was going to get surgery to cure
2:55
Speaker 1: her chronic headaches. They found a pencil that was stuck
2:59
Speaker 1: up there from childhood. Did she stuck up there? Yeah,
3:03
Speaker 1: when she was a kid and apparently forgot they found
3:07
Speaker 1: they removed the pencil. She's fine. People are wacky. Yeah,
3:11
Speaker 1: but isn't that weird? Yeah? Sure, okay, UM, here's another one.
3:15
Speaker 1: Let me see what you think about this. Um Homer
3:18
Speaker 1: Uh in The Treehouse of Horror nineteen Who definitely didn't
3:22
Speaker 1: see that one? Really? I quit watching it after that
3:26
Speaker 1: season twenty UM he goes to vote for Obama on
3:29
Speaker 1: Election Day and the UM well, it's it's a takeoff
3:32
Speaker 1: of Dive de Bold, the the UM voting machines that
3:38
Speaker 1: had so many problems. He goes to vote for Um
3:41
Speaker 1: Obama and instead it starts voting a bunch of times
3:44
Speaker 1: for McCain. Okay, so the next I guess that year,
3:49
Speaker 1: a woman from West Virginia said that she checked the
3:52
Speaker 1: box next to Obama and it just automatically switched over
3:55
Speaker 1: to McCain. This is after this thing came out, okay,
3:59
Speaker 1: which would mean predicting. Probably most chilling is Um comes
4:04
Speaker 1: from Springfield with the Spells as the dollar sign. The
4:07
Speaker 1: subtitle is or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and
4:10
Speaker 1: Love Legalized Gambling. Season five, episode ten, Springfield gets a casino,
4:14
Speaker 1: Mr Burns Casino Great One, and in it are two
4:18
Speaker 1: characters who are obviously based on Siegfried and Roy and
4:21
Speaker 1: they're with their white tiger, Anastasia. She loves the city, Yeah,
4:27
Speaker 1: um and uh anastalgia Um flashes back to when she
4:32
Speaker 1: was caught in the wild by Siegfried and Roy shot
4:35
Speaker 1: her with the trick Lizer good and Um spits out
4:38
Speaker 1: her little bubble pipe and her little beanie and attacks
4:42
Speaker 1: one of them. Yeah. This is a full ten years
4:46
Speaker 1: before the attack of Roy Horn. In two thousand three,
4:50
Speaker 1: during a show at the Mirage in Las Vegas, where Um,
4:53
Speaker 1: one of their white tigers attacked him. Monte Core attacked
4:59
Speaker 1: Roy and basically just ended their career. Right then, Yeah,
5:03
Speaker 1: I think on that one, it's like if you're gonna
5:06
Speaker 1: write a Simpsons episode aping sick Green, right, what else
5:08
Speaker 1: are they gonna do? You're gonna have the lion need
5:09
Speaker 1: them or the tiger. I'm sorry, you raise an excellent
5:12
Speaker 1: point here, but it's still it is. But you raise
5:15
Speaker 1: a very good point. And the point is, Um, I
5:18
Speaker 1: think everybody who sees someone interacting with the tamest wild
5:23
Speaker 1: animal you can possibly imagine still will not be surprised
5:28
Speaker 1: if that animal kills the person. Yeah, because, as Jack
5:32
Speaker 1: Hannah put it very um appropriately. I think in Jack Hanna,
5:36
Speaker 1: he was the original Steve Irwin, right, uh yeah, sure,
5:41
Speaker 1: um he said you can train a wild animal, but
5:44
Speaker 1: you can never tame a wild animal. And that's a
5:46
Speaker 1: really big important point in the world of I guess
5:51
Speaker 1: lion taming. Yeah, and another famous lion trainer, Slash Tamer,
5:55
Speaker 1: We're gonna probably interchange those words. Said you can't tame
5:59
Speaker 1: a lion because if you did that, there would be
6:02
Speaker 1: no act. Yeah, okay, part of the part of the
6:05
Speaker 1: act and part of The thrill of this for people
6:07
Speaker 1: is the fact that these are wild beasts, and if
6:09
Speaker 1: it was just it was a penguin, it wouldn't be
6:12
Speaker 1: very exciting. No, it wouldn't. I'd like to see that
6:15
Speaker 1: a train penguin. Well, yeah, I'm putting your mouth in
6:18
Speaker 1: head in its mouth and cracking a whip. Be fun. Yeah,
6:22
Speaker 1: it would be. Um, it would be really mind blowing
6:25
Speaker 1: if the penguin was dressed like a lion tamer and
6:27
Speaker 1: you were treating it like a lion. Okay, I've got
6:30
Speaker 1: another lion tamer quote for you, then, smart guy, all right,
6:33
Speaker 1: Gunther Gebble Williams. Yeah, he was the one I saw
6:36
Speaker 1: growing up. Okay, at the Wrangling Brothers, he said, a
6:39
Speaker 1: wild animal is like a loaded gun. It can go
6:41
Speaker 1: off at any time. So let's end the intro with that. Okay,
6:45
Speaker 1: let's talk about lion taming. You. You brought up a
6:47
Speaker 1: really good point, Chuck. Um. The if you are in
6:50
Speaker 1: this world these days, it's not lion tamer, it's lion
6:54
Speaker 1: trainer or wild animals trainer. Because none of these people
6:59
Speaker 1: think that they have tame animal on their hands. Now,
7:02
Speaker 1: it's sort of the hubris of some of these early
7:04
Speaker 1: jerks um that we'll talk about right now. Uh, eighteen
7:09
Speaker 1: nineteen was kind of when it all got going. Frenchman
7:12
Speaker 1: named Ari Martine Um, Yeah, hey to our French listener.
7:16
Speaker 1: He was a retired horse trainer and he thought, you
7:20
Speaker 1: know what, I'm gonna try and work with a tiger,
7:22
Speaker 1: which is very different than what anyone's ever seen before.
7:26
Speaker 1: And he had a method where he worked himself into
7:30
Speaker 1: the cage little by little, like just my presence. Then
7:33
Speaker 1: I'll stick an arm in, and I'll stick my head in.
7:36
Speaker 1: Take a couple of scratches, yeah, here and there, and
7:39
Speaker 1: then eventually he found himself earning the trust of the
7:42
Speaker 1: big cats over time, and he would find himself completely
7:46
Speaker 1: in the cage. So he was the first first dude period,
7:50
Speaker 1: I think, first American. He was the first known what
7:53
Speaker 1: you would call Yeah, first American was a guy named
7:57
Speaker 1: Isaac van Amberke and he was around in eighteen thirty three,
8:02
Speaker 1: and he was when I meant when I said jerks,
8:05
Speaker 1: because he would apparently like beat these cats with crowbars
8:09
Speaker 1: and use very violent tactics. Yeah, and he he had
8:12
Speaker 1: a pretty good um excuse for it or um justification?
8:19
Speaker 1: Is that sarcasm? Yeah? Okay, yeah he was. He was
8:22
Speaker 1: a biblical guy, and he would actually act out biblical
8:25
Speaker 1: scenes with these animals. And his big defense was Genesis
8:31
Speaker 1: and God said, let us make man in our image
8:35
Speaker 1: after our likeness, and let them have dominion over the
8:38
Speaker 1: fish of the sea, the vowel of the air, over
8:41
Speaker 1: the cattle, and over all the earth and over everything.
8:45
Speaker 1: Creeping that creep us upon the earth. Creep And I
8:48
Speaker 1: just like the Bible saying creep us. Yeah, it's pretty cool,
8:52
Speaker 1: and it just kind of goes on. It's like, really
8:54
Speaker 1: it's one big, one run on sentence and you can't
8:56
Speaker 1: help but wonder um if Van Amberg would say the
9:00
Speaker 1: whole thing or just be like, just read generous this one. Yeah.
9:04
Speaker 1: His big his finishing move was sort of insult to injury.
9:07
Speaker 1: After he would do all this stuff. And of course
9:09
Speaker 1: he's not beating them with a crowbar in front of people,
9:11
Speaker 1: but apparently that's how he trained them to begin with
9:15
Speaker 1: out of fear and injury. And he would finish his
9:19
Speaker 1: shows by making the lines lick his boots. Oh man,
9:22
Speaker 1: what sure? I know after all that after suffering at
9:25
Speaker 1: his hands, you know, it would be awesome, would be
9:27
Speaker 1: to see the steam Man of the Prairie beat the
9:30
Speaker 1: tar out of Van Amberg. Yeah you can reference our
9:33
Speaker 1: exo skeleton cast for that one, right yeah. All right?
9:37
Speaker 1: Um have you seen Fast, Cheap and out of Control? Uh? No,
9:41
Speaker 1: is that about robots? You gotta see that. It's Errol
9:44
Speaker 1: Morris documentary. And it was about a topier gardner, a
9:49
Speaker 1: robot uh scientist, and a lion tamer and how all
9:55
Speaker 1: these things sort of intertwined. There was one more a
9:57
Speaker 1: mole rat specialist. And in the movie, Dave Hoover was
10:00
Speaker 1: the lion tamer and Errol Morris also worked in because
10:04
Speaker 1: Hoover was a huge fan of Clyde Beattie. Uh And
10:08
Speaker 1: Errol Morris worked in this old black and white footage
10:10
Speaker 1: and Clyde Beatie was almost the fifth character of that documentary.
10:12
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, it's really really great. Okay, I have
10:15
Speaker 1: a really good, um wild animal tamer documentary. All right,
10:19
Speaker 1: let's here. Um you introduced me to this one. It's
10:22
Speaker 1: called Cat Dancers. Have you heard of it now? Oh
10:24
Speaker 1: my gosh, it is. It's so heartbreaking, it's ridiculous. It's
10:29
Speaker 1: about this group of people who like have their own
10:31
Speaker 1: thing going on and um love one another and love
10:36
Speaker 1: their big cats and then just things keep going wrong. Really,
10:40
Speaker 1: it's a really great documentary. It's one of the best
10:42
Speaker 1: I've ever seen in my entire life. See this one
10:45
Speaker 1: out there too was one of my favorites. Now Fast
10:48
Speaker 1: Cheaping out of Control. Okay, well there it's both on
10:51
Speaker 1: the table. It's crazy though that this podcast features two
10:54
Speaker 1: of our favorite documentaries, Fast Cheaping out of Control and
10:58
Speaker 1: Cat Dancers. Look for a quiz question on that one
11:01
Speaker 1: and you can get those on Netflix. So Clyde Batty,
11:05
Speaker 1: who was Dave, who were his hero was around in
11:07
Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties. Um. He used a pistol and a whip, Yeah,
11:11
Speaker 1: to keep things in line. And I think the pistol
11:13
Speaker 1: was like a sound scare less than like a threatening thing.
11:18
Speaker 1: You go through a lot of lion shooting him in
11:21
Speaker 1: the chest. He gets expensive, but he was performing at
11:25
Speaker 1: this um, at this the peak of this um lion tamers.
11:31
Speaker 1: You think of an old timey lion tamer um, the
11:36
Speaker 1: peak of the appreciation from the public. Sure, because a
11:39
Speaker 1: lot of these guys they shaped the public expectations, but
11:42
Speaker 1: they were also responding to him, and the public has
11:46
Speaker 1: had a role in shaping how lion tamers lion trainers
11:51
Speaker 1: um interact with their cats, and Beatty was kind of
11:55
Speaker 1: the last of the pistol shooting whip crack in chair guys,
12:01
Speaker 1: the old guy, Yeah, Hooever actually explains the chair and
12:04
Speaker 1: Debbie's right on the money. Um. If you've ever wondered
12:07
Speaker 1: why they point a chair at a lion, it's because
12:10
Speaker 1: apparently these big cats have a have a one track
12:12
Speaker 1: mine or they're single minded, and so the four points
12:16
Speaker 1: uh of the chair legs confuse it. Yeah, and uh
12:20
Speaker 1: that's what Hoover said, So I believe it. Well that's awesome. Yeah. Um.
12:23
Speaker 1: So you've got on Remartine who starts everything out very
12:27
Speaker 1: gently using trust yeah um, and basically just exposing himself
12:33
Speaker 1: to these large cats. He did trust falls right and
12:37
Speaker 1: the cat would catch him right. Um. And uh, then
12:41
Speaker 1: you have um van Amberg coming along, Isaac van Amberg, Uh,
12:46
Speaker 1: basically just beating the tar out of these things and
12:49
Speaker 1: using a very different method fear and clide. Batty kind
12:53
Speaker 1: of carries that torch. And then after Batty things change
12:57
Speaker 1: and you have modern lion trainers like sigfree In Roy Gunther,
13:02
Speaker 1: Gebel Williams is that how you say his name? Yeah,
13:05
Speaker 1: you're the German speaker going to gel Williams billions. This
13:10
Speaker 1: just my I believe Yeah he uh, like I said,
13:13
Speaker 1: he was the one like that was very big in
13:15
Speaker 1: like the seventies and eighties when I was growing up, right,
13:17
Speaker 1: And apparently he was in an American Express commercial. Oh yeah, yeah,
13:20
Speaker 1: with a leopard hanging over him the don't we fund
13:25
Speaker 1: without it days? Probably I would imagine yea um. But
13:28
Speaker 1: so you you have the then you have this kind
13:31
Speaker 1: of transition to the modern lion trainer, which was actually
13:34
Speaker 1: a circle back to the beginning a little more genteel. Well,
13:38
Speaker 1: that's just that it's like using trust, not using beatings. Yeah, um,
13:43
Speaker 1: and and basically just spending time with your animal to
13:48
Speaker 1: let it get to know you. Yeah. And the whip
13:50
Speaker 1: they use, even if you see a whip these days,
13:52
Speaker 1: they're not whipping the animal. The whip is to just
13:54
Speaker 1: sort of like, hey, this is my space, this is
13:57
Speaker 1: your space. Yeah, my space is over exactly spaces over there. Uh.
14:25
Speaker 1: So let's talk about the psychology of all this stuff. Yeah,
14:29
Speaker 1: animal psychology and people psychology, because it's really not that
14:33
Speaker 1: much different. B. F. Skinner there's a person psychologist, very
14:37
Speaker 1: famous one. Yeah, he created the Skinner box, that's right,
14:40
Speaker 1: and his children in it. Oh is that what's his face?
14:44
Speaker 1: I don't know. I thought you're talking about the kid
14:45
Speaker 1: that was kept in isolation Arthur. Oh, um, baby Albert Albert. No, no, No,
14:51
Speaker 1: that's totally different. That was fear extinction that they were studying.
14:55
Speaker 1: This is conditioning that Skinner was all about. Um. So
14:58
Speaker 1: operat conditioning is what we're talking and about. And that's basically, ah,
15:03
Speaker 1: connecting a behavior with a signal um and giving the
15:07
Speaker 1: animal a reward. Yeah, it's like it's pretty much a
15:10
Speaker 1: one to three cycle. Yeah, it's it's basically saying like, um,
15:13
Speaker 1: you did something that's any even remotely close to what
15:16
Speaker 1: I want you to do. So here's some food, and
15:18
Speaker 1: now you can have the animal's attention. Yeah, like oh
15:22
Speaker 1: where did that come from? Right now? Um, you kind
15:26
Speaker 1: of shape that behavior where it's like, come on, let's
15:29
Speaker 1: let's try turning to the right, and then if they
15:32
Speaker 1: move to the right, they get a little bit of food,
15:34
Speaker 1: and maybe if they turn all the way the right,
15:36
Speaker 1: they get a bunch of food. Um. And then you
15:40
Speaker 1: have say you're leading them with the stick. Um, So
15:43
Speaker 1: eventually you remove the stick and replace it with something
15:46
Speaker 1: like a snap or a clap or hey, yes, you
15:51
Speaker 1: hear a lot of that, and all of a sudden
15:53
Speaker 1: you have an animal that can turn into circle when
15:55
Speaker 1: you do what you just That's right, and that's called
15:58
Speaker 1: classical conditioning. Well, it starts with the opera and moves
16:00
Speaker 1: into classical conditions. Operate than capturing, than shaping than classical
16:04
Speaker 1: condition and capturing and shaping are part of opera exactly. Uh,
16:11
Speaker 1: should we talk about Christian the line? I guess I
16:14
Speaker 1: don't see how we can. It is real, people, If
16:17
Speaker 1: you've seen this on the YouTube, it is not made up.
16:20
Speaker 1: Are you sure like you realize what you're saying here? Man, dude,
16:26
Speaker 1: It's as real as like anything in history that happened.
16:29
Speaker 1: Like I've seen the documentary about it, and I don't
16:33
Speaker 1: think it was Christopher Guests who directed it. Uh. I
16:37
Speaker 1: can't remember the name of it. Christian the Lions, something
16:40
Speaker 1: like that. Um, you've seen it on YouTube. In nineteen
16:43
Speaker 1: the nineteen sixty nine, late sixties, Um, a couple of Aussies,
16:48
Speaker 1: John Rindell and Ace Bork, bought a lion from a
16:53
Speaker 1: department store in London, Herod's did. Now they sold lions
16:57
Speaker 1: back then, Harrod's does. It was sort of the head
17:01
Speaker 1: of London at the time. It was like the swinging
17:03
Speaker 1: sixties and these dudes were known for having this lion
17:06
Speaker 1: and like throwing parties and stuff. It was like pretty cool.
17:09
Speaker 1: And uh the line got bigger, of course, and it
17:12
Speaker 1: had to release into the wild with the help of
17:15
Speaker 1: the born free people. And then there's of course the
17:17
Speaker 1: famous video where they went um to visit this lion. Uh,
17:23
Speaker 1: like it was it years later. It was seventy three
17:26
Speaker 1: or two, I think two. I'm not sure when they
17:29
Speaker 1: released him, but it was. It was quite a while later,
17:31
Speaker 1: and it was a few years the line jumps up
17:33
Speaker 1: in like hugs the guys. It was amazing. It was
17:35
Speaker 1: pretty amazing. Yeah, are you sure it's real? I'm as
17:40
Speaker 1: sure that that's real as that you're real. Otherwise that
17:45
Speaker 1: the biggest hoax has been pulled over the world. I
17:49
Speaker 1: don't start that. I think the Howard Hughes biography was Christians.
17:52
Speaker 1: That was pretty good. Um, but as Debbie points out,
17:56
Speaker 1: for every Christian the lion there's a sick freed and roy. Yes,
18:00
Speaker 1: we already kind of covered, but I think we should
18:02
Speaker 1: go a little more into it. Yeah, there's some different
18:04
Speaker 1: theories out there. So in two thousand and three, they
18:07
Speaker 1: were um sig Freed and Roy were doing their thing
18:09
Speaker 1: and apparently they had like I think three thousand of
18:13
Speaker 1: these performances under their belts already. Yeah, they were working
18:17
Speaker 1: with Manticor or monta Core sorry, who was one of
18:21
Speaker 1: their tigers, Um, who they'd raised from a cub and
18:25
Speaker 1: he was now seven years old. Um, so they knew
18:28
Speaker 1: this this tiger intimately like they were its parents for
18:32
Speaker 1: all intents and purposes. And that's one of the keys
18:34
Speaker 1: to with line taming is that you raised them from
18:37
Speaker 1: a cub. They're not going on and getting these tigers
18:40
Speaker 1: from the savannah that are grown and then taming them.
18:43
Speaker 1: So the Simpsons were wrong in their respect. But um
18:47
Speaker 1: so during this performance, uh, something happened. Um mont Core
18:53
Speaker 1: grabbed Roy Um by his wind pipe and dragged him
18:59
Speaker 1: off stage from the outset. Um. Roy, by the way,
19:03
Speaker 1: is now partially paralyzed and as a crushed tray chia
19:07
Speaker 1: because of this, but from the outset, from the moment
19:10
Speaker 1: he regained consciousness, Roy said, do not destroy Monticore. He
19:15
Speaker 1: was like he something happened. He wasn't trying to hurt me,
19:18
Speaker 1: he was trying to protect me, and he was just
19:21
Speaker 1: dragging me away from whatever it was. Roy suggested that
19:24
Speaker 1: possibly he had a stroke and that freaked out the tiger.
19:28
Speaker 1: Tiger picked up on it. Um. It's also been theorized
19:32
Speaker 1: that a woman this is almost like the lone gunman theory. Actually,
19:36
Speaker 1: this is the one. I believe a woman with a
19:37
Speaker 1: beehive hair do, sitting toward the front row or possibly
19:41
Speaker 1: in the front row, was like distracted and confused the
19:44
Speaker 1: tiger um, which I guess maybe the tiger was trying
19:49
Speaker 1: to get Roy away from the beehive. Well, what happened
19:51
Speaker 1: the accounts I read is that this tiger became transfixed
19:54
Speaker 1: on this lady and like started walking towards the lady,
19:59
Speaker 1: and so Roy jumped in between them, and uh, the
20:05
Speaker 1: tiger grabbed ahold of his wrist at this point, and
20:08
Speaker 1: Roy bopped him on the nose with the microphone was
20:10
Speaker 1: going release, release, and he released him and he fell
20:13
Speaker 1: backward at that point, and I think that's when the tiger,
20:18
Speaker 1: the tiger you want to say, lying, that's when he
20:21
Speaker 1: thought that Roy was in trouble because it was a
20:23
Speaker 1: big brujah, all a sudden with him falling over. People
20:27
Speaker 1: rushed out there in the confusion. They think that he
20:29
Speaker 1: grabbed him like you would grab a baby kitten around
20:32
Speaker 1: the neck to pull it off stage. So that's I
20:35
Speaker 1: believe that that's sound sensible. But he didn't let go
20:39
Speaker 1: like they sprayed him when this fire extinguisher and they
20:41
Speaker 1: beat him with the fire extinguisher until he let go
20:45
Speaker 1: and UM cut his uh what do you call it?
20:49
Speaker 1: The yeah, no, but the bleeder the jug. Yeah. Well,
20:55
Speaker 1: Roy is still alive. He survived UM and they actually
20:59
Speaker 1: UM had a final performance in two thousand nine, six
21:02
Speaker 1: years later with monticor with mont Core because he's still alive.
21:06
Speaker 1: Yep Um. And he was at the Secret Garden and
21:09
Speaker 1: Dolphin Habitat. I've been there. It's pretty awesome. Where is
21:13
Speaker 1: this It's in Vegas. I can't remember what hotel it's at,
21:18
Speaker 1: but well, the Mirrage is where they performed, but I
21:22
Speaker 1: feel like they if it's it, maybe at the rush Um.
21:26
Speaker 1: I can't remember. It's also possible it was at another place.
21:29
Speaker 1: But anyway, they have like their lions and a couple
21:32
Speaker 1: of tigers. They have a bunch of stuff, and it's
21:35
Speaker 1: sad because it's a small zoo. But I'm sure these
21:38
Speaker 1: animals are treated better than the average animal at a zoo.
21:41
Speaker 1: But I mean they're in these enclosed habitats. Well, they
21:45
Speaker 1: get investigated, just like modern circuses do. I think their
21:49
Speaker 1: routine checks by which government agency is it the U
21:53
Speaker 1: s d A. The U s d E does that,
21:55
Speaker 1: they do circuses, zoos, that kind of thing. Um. The
21:58
Speaker 1: thing is is, if you're an animal welfare group, you
22:01
Speaker 1: probably don't think the U. S d A is doing enough.
22:04
Speaker 1: And even if they are following the letter of the law,
22:06
Speaker 1: you probably think the letter of the law isn't strong enough.
22:09
Speaker 1: And supposedly every single major circus in the United States
22:12
Speaker 1: has been cited for violating the Animal Welfare Act. Um. So,
22:17
Speaker 1: I think the whole concept behind lion taming and lining
22:20
Speaker 1: training is fascinating for most people. But then you take
22:24
Speaker 1: another step further and you're like, these are wild animals
22:27
Speaker 1: and captivity, Like what are you doing? Yeah, why is
22:29
Speaker 1: your head in its mouth? Exactly? And I'm glad you
22:33
Speaker 1: brought that up, because then in the introduction there's a
22:35
Speaker 1: pretty good description of what a lion can do. A
22:38
Speaker 1: lion's mouth can open up wider than your head is
22:41
Speaker 1: tall a foot three centimeters. It's also, um, capable of
22:46
Speaker 1: crushing a bull spine. I love that reference that that
22:50
Speaker 1: just sounds tough. It is to spine of a bull. Yeah. Um,
22:53
Speaker 1: and uh the clause are about three inches long. Pretty
22:57
Speaker 1: serious stuff. So I mean, yeah, this is very serious
23:00
Speaker 1: stuff if you're a lion trainer. But at the same time,
23:03
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, how do you justify having this act?
23:09
Speaker 1: What's the act for? What's it doing? Yeah? Is it?
23:12
Speaker 1: Is it protecting? Is it conserving? What is it raising awareness?
23:15
Speaker 1: I think people are demanding more explanation than they did
23:18
Speaker 1: and say the time of Clyde Beattie, well yeah, because
23:21
Speaker 1: back then it was fun to poke in pride things
23:23
Speaker 1: that you thought were unusual and exotic, and there wasn't
23:26
Speaker 1: a lot of respect for it. Like the initial circuses
23:29
Speaker 1: before they were these acts were I think they had
23:31
Speaker 1: horse acts, but it was mainly like, look at these
23:34
Speaker 1: animals and cages that you've never seen before, and look
23:38
Speaker 1: there's a pigmy, Yeah, you a bearded lady and that
23:42
Speaker 1: guy stinks so um. And I think Isaac van Jerk
23:45
Speaker 1: was the first guy to put his head in the
23:46
Speaker 1: mouth too, right, right. Unfortunately the lion didn't have finish
23:51
Speaker 1: that job. Yeah. Yeah, we have like a whole suite
24:16
Speaker 1: of circus arts stuff, human cannonball, um man, we've got
24:22
Speaker 1: to we have several others circus arts. Yeah, that's what
24:25
Speaker 1: it's called. If you even look on the channel, it's
24:27
Speaker 1: an entertainment house stuff first dot com slash arts slash
24:31
Speaker 1: circus Arts. It has a sub channel circus arts subchannel
24:35
Speaker 1: at houst first, because that's the kind of site it is.
24:38
Speaker 1: And if you go to that subchannel, you don't even
24:40
Speaker 1: need to do that. You can go to the search
24:42
Speaker 1: bar on the homepage at house to first dot com
24:44
Speaker 1: and type in lion Taming and it'll bring up this article. Yeah.
24:48
Speaker 1: I think we know we talked about something else because
24:50
Speaker 1: I mentioned that I go to the Big Apple Circus
24:53
Speaker 1: when it comes through town. Yeah, I remember talking about that,
24:55
Speaker 1: And that's the one where they have like like a
24:58
Speaker 1: horse they still have the equestrian show and my dogs
25:00
Speaker 1: jumping through hoops, but other than that, it's like clowns
25:04
Speaker 1: and jugglers and uh like the circus all a feats
25:07
Speaker 1: of strength, no animals, no big cat people are the
25:10
Speaker 1: both from the law. Yeah, it's not like the gaudy
25:12
Speaker 1: Ringling Brothers. Now good. I haven't seen the circus. I
25:16
Speaker 1: can't even tell you how long you should you and
25:18
Speaker 1: you should check out the Big Apple Circus. Oh yeah,
25:20
Speaker 1: yeah it's neat all right, we'll check it out. It's
25:22
Speaker 1: like very small and intimate. It's like it feels like
25:24
Speaker 1: what you might expect the circus a hundred years ago
25:26
Speaker 1: to be. Like, will you send me an email when
25:29
Speaker 1: it's coming? I will, Okay, okay, I said search part.
25:32
Speaker 1: By the way, all right, so that means listener mail. Yeah,
25:38
Speaker 1: this is from I'm gonna call this, um we help
25:42
Speaker 1: someone kick heroin? Did you read this? Awesome? Um? Hey, guys,
25:46
Speaker 1: have been meaning to write you for a very long time.
25:48
Speaker 1: I've been listening to you pretty much since day one,
25:50
Speaker 1: learning and loving every step of the way. However, it
25:52
Speaker 1: was almost a year ago I chose to check myself
25:55
Speaker 1: into drug treatment. See I am a marine email marine
26:00
Speaker 1: no longer active duty, but when I was injured, I
26:03
Speaker 1: was given a lot of pain killers and ended up
26:06
Speaker 1: getting addicted to those, and that eventually led to me
26:08
Speaker 1: getting strung out on heroin for years what does this
26:12
Speaker 1: have to do with you? Well, Heroin detox is one
26:15
Speaker 1: of the worst things you can imagine. We were not
26:17
Speaker 1: allowed to listen to music, or watch TV or pretty
26:20
Speaker 1: much do anything but classes and groups. I agree that
26:23
Speaker 1: it helped me being an a media blackout, but I
26:25
Speaker 1: did beg the staff to let me listen to you guys.
26:28
Speaker 1: To my amazement, my doctor was a fan of yours
26:30
Speaker 1: and approved it. Awesome, So while I was going through
26:32
Speaker 1: the worst of the worst of it, you were both
26:36
Speaker 1: there with me. I will spare you the details. So
26:39
Speaker 1: August fifte is not only I think we've both seen
26:41
Speaker 1: the sign feld where Laton's dating the guy who's kicking heroin?
26:46
Speaker 1: Did you dating guy kicking heroin? Yeah? Don't you remember?
26:48
Speaker 1: I remember that? Sorry? Go ahead. Uh So now August
26:52
Speaker 1: fifteenth is not only my birthday I'm twenty nine this year,
26:54
Speaker 1: but also my first birthday off drugs. Oh congratulation. I
26:58
Speaker 1: want to thank you for what you've done for me,
27:00
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna go back and listen to them all again. Um.
27:03
Speaker 1: I know it is a lot to ask, but a
27:05
Speaker 1: shout out would make my day. Dude and Elaine Turley, Elaine,
27:11
Speaker 1: don't tell me, that's a coincidence. Well, it's a it's
27:14
Speaker 1: both an a. Okay, she says, simplify from Elane Turley,
27:17
Speaker 1: that's awesome, and then she says, ps marines are the
27:20
Speaker 1: few and the proud. Female marines are the fewer and
27:23
Speaker 1: the prouder. So way to go, man, Yeah you want
27:27
Speaker 1: to say, man, lady, that's pretty awesome. Yeah. Yeah, you
27:31
Speaker 1: kicked heroine with us. That's amazing. Yeah, you can't even
27:34
Speaker 1: think about that. Um. Wow, man, that was a mind blower. Chuck,
27:37
Speaker 1: pretty good one. Uh. If you have a mind blowing
27:40
Speaker 1: story that relates to us, even if it doesn't, that's cool.
27:43
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27:47
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27:50
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27:56
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