Latest / Cleaning Business Life / CBL EP 165 Parasocial Relationships: Why Clarity Matters More Than Access

Transcript

CBL EP 165 Parasocial Relationships: Why Clarity Matters More Than Access · Cleaning Business Life

0:59
SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to the show.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: Today's episode is one I'm intentionally revisiting because it covers a topic that I didn't have language for at first.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: And when we don't have language, things can come out sharper than we intend.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: We're talking about parasocial relationships, what they are, why they show up so strongly in podcasts, online education, and how to keep connection healthy on both sides.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: This isn't a call-out episode.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: This isn't about blame.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: It's about clarity because clarity protects trust, boundaries, and ultimately long-term connection.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: So if you've ever felt close to a creator, or if you are a creator navigating audience relationships, this conversation will help put words into something you may have already felt.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: Hi, everyone.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
1:59
SPEAKER_01: Today we're gonna talk about a topic that's just come into the surface.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: I didn't actually know it had a definition.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know what to call it until I was doing something.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, wow, that sounds similar.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: I wonder what this is called.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: So I dug around and boom.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: It's it's what is parasocial attachment, right?
2:19
SPEAKER_00: Parasocial attachment.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: You're like, well, what is that?
2:22
SPEAKER_01: That's just like I didn't.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I guess I could have looked up the origin of the word and done it that way.
2:28
SPEAKER_01: But I was like, what I've heard that before.
2:30
SPEAKER_01: Where have I heard it?
2:31
SPEAKER_01: What I you know, where did I read it?
2:33
SPEAKER_01: That type of thing.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: And it basically comes down to a parasocial attachment is basically oh by myself.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: It's a one-sided, it's where it really is.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: It's a one-sided attachment or a relationship, yeah.
2:49
SPEAKER_01: Uh emotional relationship on top of it, right?
2:53
SPEAKER_00: Well, take uh social media for example.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: That's huge.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: You may feel like you know that person that's on social media, like your favorite clean talk person, right?
3:06
SPEAKER_00: That is that's what we're talking about.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: There the some most, I will say most of these people don't actually know each other in real life.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: Some of these people though do get together and and do options.
3:21
SPEAKER_01: I've seen that in the last year, but yeah, most of them have never met face to face, right?
3:26
SPEAKER_01: So they they have an emotional relationship with somebody who's on the internet or they're a your the audience feels a closeness, familiarity, or access to you, no matter time or date or what you're doing.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: They then it's an immediate, it's always a sense of urgency.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to bring this to light because as we all kind of move around and position ourselves in this industry and what we're doing, what we're not doing, sometimes people can again this all uh cleaning should just be boundaries.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: I really think we should just call boundaries and not cleaning because that's all we talk about are boundaries.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: And it it's it's a familiarity where I know your kids.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: Like I use my kids in some of my posts, right?
4:08
SPEAKER_01: Like KK and Maya, but that doesn't give someone the permission to show up on my doorstep and go, well, I'm here to take KK and Maya out to lunch, right?
4:17
SPEAKER_01: Or I run into you at Costco and I, you know, I want to be but BFFs and I want to play Roblox or whatever game you're playing with your kids.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: It's not, it's an overstepping of a boundary line.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: And the creator does not actually know the individual, like sometimes I run into people and I'm still glad that I'm in the spot still where I can go out in public and if I have a misbehaving moment with one of my kids, I will not be crucified and someone will not film it and put it all over social media.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: I am human, I am a parent first before I am the social influencer or any of that other stuff.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: But we all have moments of like, you know, every once in a while I have to pull a kid into the bathroom and we have to have a conversation.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: No one likes those conversations in the bathroom.
5:00
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
5:00
SPEAKER_00: Or or like me, I have the keys go out to the car now.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: Right.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: And we'll have we'll we'll talk about this in a moment.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's and it then the eyes get big, like, oh my gosh, what's gonna happen?
5:12
SPEAKER_01: So there again, it's a boundary where your audience feels a closeness or familiarity or your access.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes we've talked about this too.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: The other side of the coin is people overshare.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: I can tell you in my mom's group here in my town, a lot of those moms share stuff that maybe we shouldn't know, right?
5:33
SPEAKER_01: I don't know these people.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: I've met some of these people, but I don't I don't know these people, and I don't think that you have airing out your closet on on social media is probably not the best thing to do.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: Remember, when it's on the internet, it always stays on the internet.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's pretty wild.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: I don't know whenever I get the popcorn out and I'm like, but I don't ever, I just I am subtly in the back.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: I don't because I do run a business, right?
6:03
SPEAKER_00: Because I I feel like I do have a little bit of higher standards to you are held to a higher standard.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm held higher.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: I don't engage, but don't don't get me wrong, I'm all in it.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh you know, and there's some people that I can talk to about it.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: Oh, like my husband sometimes, and you know, we talk about but to actually post and it's very hard on some things, but yeah, we get we do get uh and I I don't I don't you know I don't think it's crazy.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: No, I love it.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: We do have boundaries, but I do absolutely I love it because I love helping people, especially whenever I was, you know, right where whoever's trying to get to where I'm at, which is crazy to me.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: Like you really get to where I'm at because I was there before asking Shannon everything all the time, you know.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: So so for some key clarifications so that we don't get into the stalking realm, the parasocial attachment is not an obsession, it's not crazy fan fans, even though we've we've had them.
7:24
SPEAKER_01: I'm like idol worship, I'm not sure how comfortable I am with that.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: And it's often subtle and well intended.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: So they you know it's it's kind of a I don't want to say fangirl, but it could it could border on that.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: It could be without either side consciously choosing it.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, we all kind of watch each other what's going on, you know.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: We pay attention to what's going on in other people's lives.
7:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh, so and so got a new car, or you know what I mean?
7:53
SPEAKER_01: Right, oh congratulations, that type of thing.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: But so there, I guess we're guilty of parasocial attachment as well.
8:03
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I I guess we could say, how does it show up with podcast listeners versus social media followers?
8:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a big one.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: It is, and I have if you look on my social media, I we I have a uh a large following, especially since I stepped into the realm of doing podcasts, co-hosting on the podcast.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: How many followers do you have now?
8:29
SPEAKER_01: I forget.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh I think close to 4,000.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's not, you know, and these are like diehards though.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: Um die hard.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: Now the business page is getting uh right around 4,000.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: It's a but a little under.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: But we have all sorts of outlets.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: We have uh TikTok, we have you know, there's differences.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: So people know me from the podcast, and then then that's when they'll decide to follow me.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
9:33
SPEAKER_00: I don't bother.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I chose to come onto this podcast, so rightfully so.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: Of course, you're gonna have followers.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: Um I don't think it's creepy, I don't think it's anything.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: If anything, I feel like it's helping.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: At least that's that was always my ultimate goal is to help.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: And still to this day, we do a lot of helping.
9:58
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of stuff that we don't just because we do something for someone doesn't mean that we, you know, want glory that comes along with it.
10:05
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of behind the scenes stuff that we do real quick because it's it's necessary.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: Because if we don't help them, if we don't push them up, then they'll never make it.
10:13
SPEAKER_01: They'll it'll be hard for them, or I don't say it'll be hard for them.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: It'll be harder if they if they're not shown a path.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: Now, there has been a couple of you guys, I've known you about five or six years through social media who've like who've made it.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: I was like, wow, this is impressive.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: You did it, blah, blah, blah.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: It's beautiful, yeah.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: There was a date, and then they secretly come out and say, Well, it took me a lot of effort to figure out all that stuff, but I did it.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I think it's for however you make it is however you make it.
10:39
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I yeah, I would free.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: I I uh it takes a lot of vulnerability sometimes to for me to come on here and I I uh I don't mind it.
10:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't mind being used, uh no, not in this aspect, not in this aspect.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: I do not, you guys.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: I don't mind showing like being totally upfront, honestly, very transparent of what I'm working on.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: You know, I honestly, the more that I'm vulnerable with everybody on here, the more it helps me grow.
11:27
SPEAKER_00: Call it selfish, call it whatever.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: But it has helped me learn so much from the guests that we've had, from the people that listen to the podcast that have brought it over into my inbox or whatever.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: And I like you said, we I don't blast it all over social media that you know we help so many people.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm on the phone with helping this person in the middle of trying to run my business.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: Like I you're like, how do they do all that stuff?
12:06
SPEAKER_00: But I really enjoy it.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: I really I really enjoy it as well, especially the transparency part of okay, this is what we're working on, and this is what Shannon's working on with her right now, and you know, and seeing how that progresses forward.
12:25
SPEAKER_00: I I yeah, so this is I think that's kind of what parasocial attachment is.
12:34
SPEAKER_01: It's increasing too.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: I as we kind of move along through this realm of what social media is, and like it's if you look at where social media started.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they give us this origin story, it was just to find girls and blah blah blah, and how it kind of has progressed because I remember being on MySpace.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: I haven't checked my MySpace forever.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: It's I've been, I don't know, does is MySpace even up anymore?
12:59
SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: I think it's broken.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: I think it's probably gone too, but it's it really has this evolution and it's it's done a 360 each time.
13:08
SPEAKER_01: So every time, remember when having a group was a big thing, now not having a group is a big thing.
13:12
SPEAKER_01: So people are doing whatever they're doing off social media.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: There, there's a lot of influence that comes with it, and there's a lot of connecting that happens with it.
13:21
SPEAKER_01: Yes, and it's it's a good thing, but it's something that has to be managed as we kind of bump along.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: And and a lot of that happens in like like I know that our podcast will never be big, like Joe Rogan, right?
13:33
SPEAKER_01: Joe Rogan has three hour segments, he has a full studio, he has a producer, all these other things.
13:37
SPEAKER_01: We're still small potatoes, and we don't run three hour shows, thank God.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: So I can imagine that it'd be like really involved of like especially with those.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: Like legitimately, like like I remember coming home at three o'clock and watching Oprah, right?
13:54
SPEAKER_01: We knew every day that Oprah was on at three o'clock and Phil Donahue or Ricky Lake or Sally Jesse Raphael.
14:01
SPEAKER_01: Sally Jesse Raphael, I remember her the blonde hair, you know.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: Podcasts can feel intimate because you're you're listening.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: I we're in your ear while you're cleaning most of the time.
14:11
SPEAKER_01: Or when you're moving across state lines, I've heard that too.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: And and there can be like founder-led brands.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of times when you come across people who have created really big brands, and you're like, Wow, this person reached out to me.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: How cool is that?
14:26
SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of a little bit of a parasocial attachment.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: Behind the scene contents creates this as well.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of going in this direction.
14:35
SPEAKER_01: So I thought we would be the ones that the first ones, or maybe the second ones, to talk about what it is and what it's like.
14:41
SPEAKER_01: And we do love each and every one of you.
14:44
SPEAKER_01: I just I don't want you to think that we're complaining about you or what the fuck.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: Oh, no, absolutely.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: You know how when you get a movie star and they're like, Don't ask me for an autograph, you're like, no.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: But we are in your ear a lot, and uh it can make you feel well, you can relate.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: I know there's so many people out because you've told me you've come into my inbox, like, wow, you know, I can relate to that.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: I get it, I I I understand, definitely, and relatability equals you know, intimacy to some degree.
15:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, vulnerability also relates to access, right?
15:22
SPEAKER_01: It's you know, you hear the story, we're you know, we're like, oh my gosh, that was terrible.
15:27
SPEAKER_01: Did you hear what happened?
15:28
SPEAKER_01: Blah blah blah blah.
15:29
SPEAKER_01: So there that happens as well.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: Where else have you seen nor this normalized on online business culture?
15:38
SPEAKER_00: Well, there's been a lot, and I just political things going on right now.
15:50
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's crazy.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's crazy.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: And the again, that's something that I because I run a business.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: I just don't don't get me wrong.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: It's not like I'm not sitting there watching.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: I am watching.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: I am no say anything about it.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just will not say I won't say nothing on here about it, but that's that's another avenue where you're like, wow, okay, I can relate, I can see that, or I don't agree with that, or how whatever.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: Well, anybody who knows who if you become Facebook friends with me, you have to subject yourself to how many dogs do I share?
16:29
SPEAKER_01: Not just the cost for being Facebook friends with Shannon.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: I'll talk about my business and other things, but it's mostly dogs.
16:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm shopping dogs, so they get adopted.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: It's just the price you pay.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: Well, and there for the longest time, I was afraid to.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: I remember I was afraid to tell you that I got a female dog for my male bumper.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, Shannon ain't gonna, she's she is totally not for, but I'm a responsible, very responsible.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: As a matter of fact, she's going through her season right now, they're separated.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh we must be together.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: We must.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: I get it now.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: I don't like it.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: I do see I do see it a lot on online, offline, and it it becomes a good thing to be able to know part of people's lives.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it really is a relatable thing, it's just a matter of you know, something to be made aware of.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: Like we we we see Samantha out there who gets as she's growing, and Samantha, we love you, but we're starting to see people overstep with her platform, and she's spicy enough to keep it going, and I love her for that.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: Those probably people don't know what happened.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, no, you you just gotta you gotta take it with a grain of salt, but yeah, it's it's on it's prevalent in social media, it's prevalent online.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: And why this matters for you guys is because emotional labor leaders didn't consent to the overstepping of the boundaries.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: So just because you see someone online and it's relatable doesn't mean that it gives you permission to say, I need you to answer my question right away, or you know, can you give me help?
18:16
SPEAKER_01: Why can't you give me help?
18:17
SPEAKER_01: Or why can't you send this to I've had people go, why can't you just give it to me for free?
18:24
SPEAKER_01: That one's sometimes I secretly do, but you just don't know about it.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm not advertising, but right, exactly.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: But I it's uh I have I on that aspect, I know how to say because it did.
18:38
SPEAKER_00: I paid for my way uh on some things, uh, and I'm not definitely not giving it handing it over for free.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: Right, um definitely not there's a lot of guilt when when boundaries are enforced, it makes you feel guilty.
18:56
SPEAKER_01: I like to say I would love to be able to say yes to every single person who asked me for something, but real in in real reality, there's just one of me, and there's like 50,000 of you guys, right?
19:08
SPEAKER_01: There's only one of Jamie.
19:10
SPEAKER_01: So that's why we try to you know empower everyone to be able to create collaboration over competition.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: I mean, like Marie, she actually started her own Facebook group.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm actually part of the Facebook group.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: I think she asks very educated questions, she gives little lives.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: I love, love, love the fact that she's taking ownership in her area and she's helping the other business owners.
19:32
SPEAKER_01: I think it's I do too.
19:34
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: I tried to do something, and then I ended up inviting a whole friends list and well it might be time to like pick them out.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
19:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, we'll we'll talk about that later.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: But and then there's the confusion between customer, student, and friend.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: So you have to always be aware, and sometimes I can be a little spicy myself, especially when I'm giving, you know, I'm looking for cleaning clients, not to overstap because people become defensive.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: And the reality is that the reason why they're they're becoming defensive is because they're doing that bad thing, not because they're offended, it's because they feel guilty because they've done the bad thing.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: Um so you have to be careful.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, Jamie was talking about politically, you you have to be careful what you say and how you say it, right?
20:22
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: Right now, it's just so cut down the line of are you on this side or that side?
20:30
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I'm on I am neutral, I'm the neutral button, and I just I love you right, but I'm gonna love you from afar and still watch and see what happens, but you're gonna have to work this one out on your own.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
20:49
SPEAKER_00: I uh I just whenever it comes to politics, I nope, nope, nope.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: And then burnout can actually happen from not from your workflow, but from emotional access.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: So if you give people too much access to yourself and the space in your head, it can be exhausting.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: You guys have all heard me talk about Dan Kennedy and how he gave, you know, the$80,000 check or whatever it was back to someone who was high maintenance.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: He said, you know, I I don't want this.
21:18
SPEAKER_01: Here's your check back, buy.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: Um and yes, was it hard to give back the the$60,000 or the$80,000 check?
21:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was real hard.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: But you know, you the space in your head is prime real estate.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: It's more important than well, I hear people say it all the time not all money is good money, right?
21:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, is it worth that mental that mental blockage that it's taking up?
21:48
SPEAKER_00: No, no, I don't think it's worth it.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: I don't and then you know how authority erodes when leaders feel pressured to be personally available.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: You don't have to, and as the rest of us grow with this whole phenomenon I'm seeing, you don't have to be available all the time.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: You can have strict hours just like you do with your cleaning clients, you start to do a little bit of coaching or mentoring or whatever you're doing, you do not have to be available all the time.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: And this was a hard lesson, and I've learned it from many people myself, and I try to practice what I preach.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: I am not responsible for the outcome that I give you.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: So if I give you a list of things to do and you choose not to do those things, I am not personally responsible because it's hard because I want to see you guys succeed.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: I want it, I want it, I want it, I want it.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: And it's just you know, that's just well, yeah.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: It's like here, I'm gonna give you this list of things to do.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: And uh everybody asked me, How'd you get there so fast?
22:49
SPEAKER_00: I remember this.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh how'd you get there so fast?
22:51
SPEAKER_00: I was like, Well, Shannon gave me a list of things to do, and I did the list, right?
22:59
SPEAKER_00: I literally did the list of everything that I was supposed to do, you know.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and if you don't do the list, then you can't expect that well.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: That wasn't for me, that wasn't the right way, or you know what I'm saying?
23:19
SPEAKER_01: You have to be able to do the you have to want to be able to do the work.
23:22
SPEAKER_01: I you you you can.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: Do the work, but if you don't want to do the work, there's a big difference.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: And people, you know, we talked about self-sabotage in in that in the last episode, but you you have to want it to get there.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: If you don't want it, or if there's no risk involved, then there really is no point in doing it.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: It's like learn teaching little kids how to swim the old-fashioned way.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know how you learn how to swim.
23:47
SPEAKER_01: Where's the swim instructor?
23:48
SPEAKER_01: Go, okay, Mrs.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: Miller, this is what they did to me.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna teach Shannon how to swim right now.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: And she's like, my mom's like, oh, this is great.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: She picked me up, threw me in the water, so there you go.
23:59
SPEAKER_01: Swim, Shannon, swim, right?
24:02
SPEAKER_01: Look at my face.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: That's how I was like trying to figure out what had just happened.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, it's not quite like that, but it's just that's the experience I'm giving that as an example.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: So the this is where you know your identity really shows.
24:20
SPEAKER_01: So you you can be a podcaster, you can be a mentor, you can be a coach, you can be an author, you can be a chemical product maker.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what the official fancy term is for that.
24:31
SPEAKER_01: Inventor extraordinaire.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no more like uh what Jamie did.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: So you have to be able to, you know, authority comes with clarity, structure, consistency, and respectful distance.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: And if you don't put that in place, then you'll have to put it in place because people will, you know, they'll message you at like 4 a.m.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: going, can you help me with this?
24:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yes.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: There's intimacy, is emotional processing, personal access, mutual disclosure.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: And and when you get mutual disclosure, if you're new at having relationships, don't trauma dump.
25:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm laughing when I say this because I've had it happen to me.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: Don't trauma dump on others, get to know people before you give them the full enchilada on what on what happened and how you're there.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: If the other person is not accepting uh, I mean, if they're not accepting the the dumping that you're doing, be mindful of that.
25:38
SPEAKER_01: Can you march on?
25:39
SPEAKER_00: Keep on marching on draw the line and and uh uh you know set the boundary, right?
25:48
SPEAKER_01: Right, and then you know the intimacy also creates relationship expectations, right?
25:53
SPEAKER_01: Again, we just talked about trauma dumping.
25:55
SPEAKER_01: Nobody people want hugs and to be acknowledged and congratulated and all of the good things.
26:02
SPEAKER_01: They don't necessarily need to know all of the trauma that you have happen to have.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: And if you do have a lot of trauma, that's okay.
26:10
SPEAKER_01: You're still human, but you have to do it in small, small bites.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a little bit at a time, little bit at a time, not not your second conversation while you know this all happened in a chamber.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, trust does not require access.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: And then sometimes people confuse warmth with availability.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: Like if I'm super nice, I I don't how many people have my phone number?
26:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, hey, if you call me really quick, it'll be faster, blah, blah, blah, blah.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: And then then they after the first time, sometimes they call the second time.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, well, okay.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: Then it's the third time.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh man, now I'm gonna have to, you know, now I have to say something.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: Don't confuse the warmth with availability.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: I I'm nice to everybody.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, sure, you know, but it's give me a second, you know.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: Let's build up the the relationship a little bit before you just uh no offense, but before you vomit all over, uh because I cannot you can only like it, you gotta structure it just so to build up that momentum to help for me to be able to help you.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: But just because you know, pick up the cues, please.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, yeah.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm in a professional business, I'm on a podcast, I I'm on social media, I'm a friend with and and this is what we're talking about here.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: I am friends with a lot of cleaning influencers, but I respect their space, right?
28:10
SPEAKER_00: We are friends, and we can talk trauma dumping in little sections, and we do privately, just not privately very, very privately.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: I don't go uh you know out and they know they can trust me I that I won't go out and and tell the business about them.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely not.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: My 10-year-old did that to me the other day.
28:37
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, tea.
28:42
SPEAKER_01: What's the tea?
28:43
SPEAKER_01: Tell me what the tea is.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: Let me tell you what the tea is, mom.
28:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like you're sharing ideas that are more than personal struggles.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: Um you're teaching frameworks, but you're not giving diaries.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: We don't need full disclosure like the babysitter I mentioned.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: I'm scandalized over the whole thing and let work be the bridge, not your private life.
29:03
SPEAKER_01: So there's there's a mutual understanding about give and take, and then keep relationships, partners, kids, family offstage.
29:11
SPEAKER_01: So we don't need to know all the details.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: We just we just don't.
29:16
SPEAKER_01: And and I I try to politely say that in the mom's group because sometimes they do overshare and it's traumatizing for the rest of us all watching.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
29:30
SPEAKER_01: Consistency builds safety more than oversharing, and consistency is true, and it does build more safety than oversharing.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: Because when you overshare, you immediately roll a dex in your brain.
29:42
SPEAKER_01: Like people come up to me and go, Oh, I remember you, and I'm like, I have no idea who this, but they remember me.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh my gosh, I have no idea.
29:50
SPEAKER_01: And then they start to tell me the story, and it's because they overshare, and I'm like, oh, now I remember you know, kid or kid or pet.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: Did you have a dog that I liked?
30:00
SPEAKER_01: Right?
30:01
SPEAKER_01: Kid or pet.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: Privacy is not secrecy, privacy is a good thing.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: Yes, boundaries are not rejection, they're just you know on your terms.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: That's how it works.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: Remember that, yeah.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: Create better trust.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, not talking about certain topics, for example, the babysitter who slept with the 20.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: So it's like, um, this really does apply to the cleaning industry, not just the cleaning influencers.
30:33
SPEAKER_01: Clients will feel entitled to expectations.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: So if you don't create boundaries and you don't, if you overshare, then they'll like, well, you said this, why can't you do this for me?
30:44
SPEAKER_01: You did it for her, right?
30:46
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
30:47
SPEAKER_01: Team members will often blur professional lines.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: How many times have cleaning techs been on the job and the homeowner is there and it's like a therapy session, and they have overshared every little detail of their life, everything.
31:01
SPEAKER_01: And you're like, Oh my god, and then you're traumatized by the end.
31:03
SPEAKER_01: You're like, I don't want to go back.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or put your cleaning text to that.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: Or what I've seen too, owners oversharing personal stress.
31:15
SPEAKER_01: You have friends in business, there's no friends in business.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: Uh, please take that from I would say take it from Shannon, but please take it from me because it's just experienced this for Kann again.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: Uh a couple of times, not one, not twice, maybe three or four times.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm guilty of it myself.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: Uh you guys, and if you have to like, oh, this person will never do that to me.
31:39
SPEAKER_00: I if it will.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: It will.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: It will.
31:44
SPEAKER_01: And then customers will always confuse friendliness with flexibility.
31:48
SPEAKER_01: I'm just smiling, nod.
31:49
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, you you said okay.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: No, I didn't.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: No, it's not on my schedule, it's not in my notes.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: So parasocial dynamics don't just exist online, they show up in the service businesses too.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure do.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: Sure do.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't have thought that.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: I didn't until I got I printed this out this morning.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: I had no idea what parasocial attachment was.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: Right.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: And I'm glad we did this because it opened my eyes to a lot of things and understanding.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it definitely keeps healthy boundaries.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: It shows healthy boundaries and it shows that you're allowed to have those healthy boundaries.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: Uh, what was she just saying?
32:46
SPEAKER_00: Privacy, not secrecy.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: Right.
32:49
SPEAKER_01: Um just as good.
32:53
SPEAKER_01: Well, actually, care thinking is actually better than shared intimacy.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: We don't need to know all of the details.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: What do they call it?
33:01
SPEAKER_01: My grandma used to call it airing your dirty laundry.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: Shannon, you shouldn't air your dirty laundry.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: My grandma was very formal.
33:07
SPEAKER_01: You shouldn't share your dirty laundry with everyone.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I don't care.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'd be well, you know, I've had my mother-in-law do that to me back before I had the business.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: Like, Jimmy, I'm just looking out for you.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: Right.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: I was like, You're looking out for your family.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: But but it always got me to stop and think, just like a mom would.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: She's my mother-in-law.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe I shouldn't post that, so I can go pull the post off.
33:39
SPEAKER_01: Just X hours, keep on scrolling.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: I don't think that's not appropriate.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: And then go back.
33:45
SPEAKER_01: Are you happy?
33:48
SPEAKER_01: So being known for your work is different than being known personally, and that's the distinction that matters.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: And this will conclude our talk on parasocial attachments.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: I hope that this was enlightening.
33:58
SPEAKER_01: It's our first before getting into it.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: We might talk about it again as we become more educated because Jamie and I both just learned what this was the other day.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: And um, again, we we look forward to your questions.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: If you know someone who is interested in sponsorship, we I believe we have a couple spots left for that.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: We have a lot of packages, just reach out to Jamie or myself and we can walk you through the process.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: And as always, you guys, please leave us a five-star review.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: We want to reach more people like yourself, and so that people can get in on this.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: And anyways, yeah.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: Have a great day.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: Take care.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: Bye.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: All right.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: As we wrap up, here's what I want you to leave with.
34:45
SPEAKER_01: Connection doesn't require unlimited access.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: Healthy boundaries don't weaken relationships, they stabilize them.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: And clarity actually is one of the kind of things a creator can offer an audience.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: My hope is that this episode helped you see the dynamic more clearly.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: Whether you're listening as a consumer of content or creating it yourself, if this conversation resonated, I encourage you to reflect on how you use content you consume as a tool, not a lifeline.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: And how clarity can support growth on both sides.
35:19
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being here.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: We always appreciate and love you.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening with intention, and I'll see you in the next episode.