Latest / This Week On ICE / Inside ICE's new body camera policy — and the surveillance concerns it raises

Transcript

Inside ICE's new body camera policy — and the surveillance concerns it raises · This Week On ICE

• 0:00
  [music]
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to This Week On ICE for August 11, 2026.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Kelly Kimball.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Matt Kendrick.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: The killings of Lorenzo Salgado Araujo
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: and Juan Sebastián Duran Guerrero renewed calls for ICE to equip its officers
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: with body cameras, which the agency had promised to do earlier this year.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: Now,
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: ICE says it will have rolled out the cameras completely by the end of September,
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: but that doesn't mean that they're going to let you see the footage.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: ICE says their policy only requires releasing footage if it is in their best interest.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: We'll talk about the policy and their surveillance concerns that it brings up.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Then, video emerged last week of bulldozers demolishing vegetation in
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: the Big Bend National Park in Texas as contractors built an access road
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: to construction sites for Trump's border wall.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Activists and locals condemned the destruction of the National Park,
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: pointing out that migrants rarely choose to cross such rugged terrain anyway.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's part of a larger package of spending on immigration that we've discussed often
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: on this program.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Kelly will tell us the details.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: After the break,
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: I sit down with journalist Sophie Hurwitz,
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: whose recent report in Mother Jones tells the story
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: of 27-year-old asylum seeker Glendi Marisol Gonzalez de la Cruz,
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: who took the advice of DHS officials to self-deport
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: with her three young children back to her native country of Guatemala to reunite
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: with her husband, who had already been deported one year prior.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: Just weeks after the family reunited, they were both found shot and killed in a sugarcane field.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: Sophie will explain what happened,
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: How the family circumstance is linked to
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: the Trump administration's broader deportation scheme and how it's part of
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: a growing phenomenon where ICE's deportation surge presents
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: a budding financial opportunity.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: Stick with us.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: First off, sorry to our regular listeners for leaving you hanging last week.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was on the road to New Orleans at a conference
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: and we had some unexpected programming challenges come up and it was just impossible
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: to schedule a recording.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: So apologize to you for that.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: But good news was I had a very,
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: very interesting conference in New Orleans with a lot of folks who are talking
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: about journalism education,
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: trying to figure out what's the future of this industry that's in
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: so much trouble right now.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean,
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: honestly,
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: so much news happened in the last week that it feels like it's been Like a year
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: since we last hopped on the show.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: But that is kind of the nature of the beast when you talk about immigration
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: and immigration enforcement.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Just happy to be back.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: There's just one thing that I wanted to mention from New Orleans that I went to
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: the World War II Museum in New Orleans, which is fantastic.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: They have a large exhibit on Japanese internment.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually thought a lot of the evidence and stories present Presented in
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: that exhibit had a lot to do with what we were talking about here with detention
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: in places like Delaney Hall or any number of ICE facilities,
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: like the level of inhumanity and just abject,
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: awful conditions that detainees have described.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think it rivals what this exhibit in the World War II Museum said about
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: the Japanese internment camps.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing that really struck me was that even in this time of war with people
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: who the U.S.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: government considered enemy aliens too dangerous to allow to live
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: in normal society...
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: There was more humane treatment.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: People were able to build schools.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: People planted gardens and decorations.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And there was like community life in a way that made me reflect
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: on just how degrading and inhumane the detention facilities that ICE uses are.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I just wanted to mention that before we dive into the news of this week.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: The fact that your takeaway was these ICE detention facilities are even less humane
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: than Japanese internment camps.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: Matt, we spent a lot of time in recent weeks talking about the lack of transparency
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: and clarity in ICE's actions,
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: particularly around the two shootings that occurred last month.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: And even though ICE has promised to roll out body cams for the second time,
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: that may not alleviate the issue.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: What are you seeing?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Basically,
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: the AP published a report last week that said that ICE's own policies would prevent
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: the release of body cam footage in situations where it was not in ICE's interest
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: to release that footage.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that's actually consistent with For example,
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: we know that there was body cam footage of Alex Preddy's shooting back
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: in Minneapolis at the beginning of the year,
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: and yet CBP,
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: which is under DHS with ICE,
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: has never released that footage,
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: and you would think that's of tremendous public interest to be able
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: to see more clearly what happened there.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Similarly,
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: with the two shootings just last month,
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: in both cases, ICE's story and the story of witnesses do not match at all.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they're both cases where body cam footage could really clarify what went on Lead
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: to accountability, lead to more public trust.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: If we could see seeing is believing,
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: as we all know,
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: and if we could see what happened,
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: we would be able to get more accurate ideas of the problems
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: that ICE is encountering.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: But ICE did dispute the AP's characterization.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: They said that they're conflating sort of ICE's broader authority to hold on to body cams.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Those are quite broad words.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's no clarity on in what ways investigations or privacy could be compromised
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: And there's also no rule pointing them in the other direction where if someone dies
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: in an interaction with ICE,
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: there are no circumstances delineated specifically where ICE would release
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: that footage.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, what kind of concerns does this raise about surveillance?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: so if ICE is not releasing body cam footage and there's not a good way for people
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: to access that body cam footage,
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: that kind of indicates to me that the body cams are going to be used
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: for another purpose.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like if ICE wants everyone to have body cams but won't release them...
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: That could help with this large surveillance apparatus that we've also talked about a lot here.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: So basically,
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: if ICE is walking around all day with a live feed feeding
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: into facial recognition software,
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: they can build a database of who lives It can build any number
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: of really scary technologies.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Techniques that will allow ICE to act in a more targeted fashion to go
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: after its critics and be aware of who they are and disrupt networks of civic society
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: that are attempting to resist ICE's policies.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have seen in Minneapolis,
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: like we saw in Los Angeles,
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: and we had Gustavo Arellano talk about that a few weeks ago.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: This is a way to get inside of those circles without infiltrating them with a person
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: and kind of pick people off one by one, see who's networked to who, etc.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not just body cameras that we have to worry about here.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: This also blends in with the discussion we've been having as a nation about flock cameras.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Are you familiar with flock cameras, Kelly?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, not too much.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: What are these?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: I've been seeing the headlines, but I'm not quite sure.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm quite sure that if you walked outside in your neighborhood in New York
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: and you went to the park or you walked down a few blocks,
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: you would walk by one eventually.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: They kind of look like light poles.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Or you might remember like maybe when you were in college,
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: campus security would put The idea behind them is sort of public security.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's sort of like how ring cameras, for example,
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a much more sinister purpose.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said already,
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: tying into these databases of potential targets for ICE,
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: potential journalists, activists, etc.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: So these flat cameras can be accessed by law enforcement and passed along.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then let's not forget that a lot of our data
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: as just ordinary citizens is available for sale on the open internet and
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: the government has every right to buy it,
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: which we saw decided in a court case earlier this year.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: So all of that kind of sums into this really scary data and privacy environment
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: where,
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: you could be going about your daily business and unwittingly be subjected
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: to pretty invasive surveillance.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: And one that is like the government doesn't even necessarily have to do that much
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: in order to enact that surveillance.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for providing those updates in the context of what we report on here on the show.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Kelly,
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: we want to talk about some disturbing events going on in Big Bend National Park
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: in Texas.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Folks might be familiar with it.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: It is beautiful,
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: rugged terrain,
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: kind of like imagine what you would see in a Coyote and Roadrunner cartoon.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And last week,
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: some video emerged of contractors bulldozing vegetation
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: in this protected national park.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: To build a border wall.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: So Kelly, what's going on there?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Why are they bulldozing our national parks?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: And this is quite unique for our show.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: This is really our first environmental story that we're going to be tackling.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: So basically what happened is that the Trump administration agreed to
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: a $1.7 billion construction project in Big Bend National Park.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: This contract went to a contractor called the Southwest Valley Constructors Company.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: And through at least mid-May,
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: They're going to conduct five different border security infrastructure projects
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: in this national park that is like roughly 330 miles southeast of El Paso right at
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: that border.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: And this is a region that is really, really precious and delicate desert ecosystem.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not only going to impact the Big Bend region,
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: but it's also going to impact the Amistad National Recreation Area and
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: the Big Bend Wrench State Park.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: There are also some really important canyons and other mountainous structures in this area.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right now we are only seeing footage of bulldozers and it's a bit of a black box as
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: to the nature of the construction.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: We don't know if they're going to blast through these canyons.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: We don't know if what portions of these are going to be wall,
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: what portions of these are going to be surveillance roads,
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: but Right now,
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: the bottom line that a lot of activists who are both of the environmental ilk and of
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: the immigration ilk are both adamantly against this project.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: And more importantly,
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: since 2023,
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: Border Patrol data reported no more than 100 or 200 migrants being upended
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: in this area each year since 2023.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that is less than 0.05% of all migrant crossings recorded on
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: the entire U.S.-Mexican border.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: So for a $1.7 billion project to be engaged for a 0.05% chance of a migrant crossing
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: that border on really precious and very,
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: very sensitive ecosystem, the math isn't really mathing for me.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: How does this construction project allegedly relate to Trump's border security agenda?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: So one of the biggest campaign promises that he had was
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: to be very much completionist in building the border wall along
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: the entire U.S.-Mexico border.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: So there has been a border wall since Trump 1.0.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: But he is going into territories that are either ecologically protected
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: because they're a national park territory or they're in a nature reserve,
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: or he's going into territory that,
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: previously it is such difficult terrain to traverse that no migrant would go
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: that way anyway, or it would be exceedingly rare.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: What that's ultimately doing is pushing migrants into ever more dangerous areas
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: to cross the U.S.-Mexico border.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: Another thing I wanted to mention is that this is a campaign incentive, as I said previously.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: But it is also part of a kind of new imagining of what
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: the southern border wall could look like.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: So this is a 1,954 mile border between the U.S. and Mexico.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: They are constructing a border barrier system called a smart wall.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: And this is going to include a combination of primary and secondary steel bollard walls.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: Waterborne barriers,
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: which we have already seen in the Rio Grande River,
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: patrol roads, and importantly, technology required to tie this all together.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: So we may see the use of surveillance technology that you had mentioned, Matt,
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: maybe some flock cameras, lights,
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: and other detection technology that we have yet to even imagine,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: given that this is all being funded by the one big, beautiful bill.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: That reminds me of how South Korea patrols the DMZ.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: They have a fence or whatever,
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: but the real deterrent effect comes from drones and sensors and foot patrols
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: and other things that keep North Korea from sneaking in there.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it seems like a much more effective and environmentally...
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of the environment, the DMZ has become bizarrely an environmental...
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Success story because there's no humans living there to encroach on the environment.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of like really endangered species on the Korean Peninsula live in the DMZ.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, that's neither here nor there.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: But this is a national park.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how can how can they just bulldoze the environment in a national park?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: So in June,
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: the Department
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: of Homeland Security waived 31 different federal environmental historic preservation
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: and public land laws.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: So these include the National Environmental Policy Act,
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: the Endangered Species Act,
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: and the National Park Service Organic Act in order to expedite the border barrier
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: to complete the U.S.-Mexico border.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it's fulfilling a campaign promise.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: And in order for him to do that,
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: he is strong arming,
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: decades long environmental policy acts that protect lands from from this type
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: of construction.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just want to remind listeners of our friend Ben Camacho's interview
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: that was featured on this program with border angels,
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: who are folks who leave kind of water and supply drops for folks trying to cross
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: the U.S.-Mexico border in dangerous areas and how frequently they encounter remains
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: of people who have died during that crossing.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really brutal and difficult and putting people into even worse situations.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, we're going to take a quick break.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: After that,
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Kelly's going to sit down with Sophie Hurwitz of Mother Jones
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: to discuss their latest reporting on one family whose plight is at the center
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: of Trump's compounding deportation agenda.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Stick with us.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Hi guys, Matt here.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so proud to say that we have just passed our six month mark on This Week On ICE
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: and we couldn't have done it without you.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Your help sharing the show with friends
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: and colleagues have helped us grow our community of listeners by 36% in
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: the last three months and we are extremely grateful for your support.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: The journalism industry has never been in a more difficult moment,
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: particularly when it comes to rapidly changing funding models that challenge
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: the ability of all newsrooms to bring you independent reporting,
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: expert analysis, all of the First Amendment freedoms that undergird our Democratic
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: We have some exciting projects coming down the pipe for you,
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: including original reporting in the US and abroad,
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: but it can't be possible without your support.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: You can go to thisweekonice.substack.com or buymeacoffee.com slash thisweekonice
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: to pledge a contribution and help keep us going.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, by searching This Week On ICE on Instagram,
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: TikTok, and YouTube, you can find ways to easily share the show even more widely.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you again.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to This Week On ICE.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm here with Sophie Hurwitz,
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: who is a reporter for Mother Jones,
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: where they cover breaking news, politics, and social movements.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: Sophie has been closely tracking the broad impacts of Trump's immigration crackdown.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: Today,
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: we are going to talk about a recent story of theirs that underscores the human toll
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: that the Trump administration's deportation policies have had on immigrant families.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: The story is centered on 27-year-old mother Glendi Marisol González de la Cruz,
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: who took the advice of Department of Homeland Security officials in June
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: to self-deport with her three young children back to their country of origin,
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Guatemala.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: She did so in order to reunite with her husband,
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Nixon Giovanni Perez Paz,
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: who was arrested during a traffic stop and swiftly deported just one year prior.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: Just a few weeks after reuniting as a family back in Guatemala,
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: Neighbors found the couple bound, shot, and killed in a sugarcane field.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Now, Sophie,
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: thank you for your coverage of this and the many ICE-related stories
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: that you have written for Mother Jones, and welcome to the show.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: So can you tell us how you came across this family's story
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: and what more you can tell us about Glendi and Nixon and why they were targeted
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: by ICE?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I initially came across this story in a really unusual way.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: I got a late night text from a family member of mine who said she had gotten
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: an email from a friend of hers,
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: which said that someone a couple suburbs over had been deported and killed.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: There weren't a lot of details, but it was pretty shocking.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not really how I usually get my stories,
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: but that was how I first,
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: you know, heard about Wendy and Nixon and about the things that happened to them.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: A few days later, St. Louis Public Radio initially broke the story.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: They did an incredible job covering it.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Brian Munoz over there is a great reporter.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was when kind of details of exactly what this was started to emerge.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Things were confusing at first.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: People weren't sure,
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: like, was it federal agents who initially stopped Nixon leading to his deportation?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Was it like local police working with them?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Things like that.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: How many kids did they have?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Were they daughters?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Were they sons?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Things like that.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so slowly over the next week, these details start emerging.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: I start talking to Friends of the couple,
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: members of their community, and in fact, Nixon's brother, Rolando.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that was how he was able to really get a picture of who they were and what happened to them.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: So here are some things I can tell you about Glandy and Nixon.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: They were really,
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: really involved in their community in Overland, which is a suburb outside St. Louis.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: They were parents of three young girls, and they were really involved parents as well.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: They cared very deeply about their children.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Staff at their eldest daughter's school told me they never missed any parent-teacher
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: conferences.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they were super plugged in.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Nixon was a roofer.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: He was the family's primary breadwinner.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: He worked that job alongside his brother.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Glendy worked various jobs.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: A couple of her friends told me she...
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Did some factory gigs.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: At one point, she had a night job cleaning offices.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: They were incredibly hard workers, and they loved their kids.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: They loved to cook.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: They loved family time.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: They were also undocumented.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Nixon, his brother, and Glendy had all come to the U.S. from Guatemala in around 2020.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: They were fleeing violence and poverty.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: They wanted to build a better life for their kids, is what Rolando said.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: But then one day in the spring of 2025,
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Nixon and Rolando were on their way to their roofing job at like five in the morning
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: and federal agents surrounded their vehicle.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: They were detained in various local jails for about a month and
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: then eventually deported back to Guatemala.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: And Glendie at this point is 26 years old.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: She's very pregnant with her third child and she is left completely alone.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: What was the impact of Nixon being arrested, detained, and then deported?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: I imagine he was the primary breadwinner that would have a massive impact on a family.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: One of Glendy's friends I spoke to,
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: who used a fake name in the article because she's also afraid of being targeted
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: by ICE, described it as Glendy's world collapsed.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: She struggled to take care of her kids for that year,
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: and she also had this increasing fear that ICE would come get her as well.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And would then separate her from her children.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: She gave one of her friends power of attorney and gave her a list of instructions
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: in case she were taken.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people in the community really tried to help her out.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that, again, is an important part of this.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: She was so involved and so loved.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Teachers from her kids' school helped try to make sure they had enough to eat.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Her friends would give her and the kids rides to work, to school.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: And she...
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: Really tried to make it work, but they had very little money.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: They had no transportation.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, she didn't have a driver's license.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: She's undocumented.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And she never really had enough steady income to know for sure where
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: the next rent check was going to come from,
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: where the next meal for her kids was going to come from.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: One of her friends I spoke to just kind of kept saying,
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't know how Glendy could sleep.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so while she did not want to return to Guatemala and her friends didn't want her
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: to, they thought it would be dangerous.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: They thought that her kids who grew up in suburban St.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Louis wouldn't,
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: like that's essentially like a foreign country to them at this point,
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: that they, that it wouldn't make sense for them to go either.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: But Glendi around like March,
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: February or March of 2026 starts thinking like, maybe this is her only option.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's important too,
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: to talk about how self deportation quote unquote has really been so promoted
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: by this administration as somehow like a kinder,
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: gentler version of deportation, right?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like they've put out all these ads that are like,
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: avoid the humiliation, you know, get on a flight, we'll buy your flight back.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so she's just being bombarded with these messages.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, she's, you know, doing the best she can to make it work here.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And she knows that like ICE is active in her neighborhood.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Overland,
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: where she lived,
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: was one,
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: is one of the Like hotspots for ICE activity in the St.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Louis area, something like a quarter of local ICE arrests happen in Overland.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: A middle school in the district her kids attended,
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: local police officers with 287G contracts,
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: so deputized by ICE,
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: showed up at that middle school asking questions about students.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: So you can imagine that this was just a really stressful,
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: like scared environment she was in,
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: despite the fact that she had so much community support,
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: despite the fact That she had such a network,
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: that she was part of this group Fuerza,
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: where she and a bunch of other mostly immigrant women,
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: but also folks from the U.S.,
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: also some men,
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: but primarily immigrant women,
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: would kind of get together and try to figure out how to collectively advocate
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: for their rights.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: So she was so involved.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: She had so much of a network and a community.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: And despite all that...
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: She was essentially like economically coerced and coerced by fear into leaving
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: the country in July of this year.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned 287G,
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: that program that effectively deputizes law enforcement agencies to work in cahoots
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: with ICE to make immigration enforcement arrests.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: And these 287G programs offer incentives in the tens of thousands of dollars
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: in reimbursement money for these different law enforcement agencies.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: What I find compelling about your report here is that you link
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: the family's circumstances not only to federal immigration enforcement,
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: but to local St.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: Louis police departments whose arrests are what you describe as,
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: quote, a major source of local government revenue.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: I would love for you to explain this connection a little bit further.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: So St. Louis County is a little bit of an odd place policing wise.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: There are dozens of separate police departments,
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: many of which only have like five or 10 officers and serve an area
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: of maybe one square mile or like a couple subdivisions.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that tends to lead to what many experts have called revenue seeking policing.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: So these tiny police departments have tiny budgets, right?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: They are probably answerable to like a town council of five random people.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: And they try to essentially meet their budget needs by conducting traffic stops
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: and extracting traffic and court fines from people.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: This became very clear after the 2014 Ferguson uprising,
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: after the killing of Michael Brown, there was a whole lot of scrutiny around this.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: And there were a bunch of reports that came out around that time that suggested
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: that These revenue-seeking policing behaviors tended to turn
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: into disproportionate racial profiling, right?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're Black and Brown and you're driving in one of these,
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: in an area like Overland or in one
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: of these really small municipalities like Hillsdale or Breckenridge Hills,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: folks would argue that that would make you more likely to get pulled over.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then that ties into the 287G stuff because 287G agreements can be another way
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: for these departments to get more money and to get more money in ways
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: that specifically encourage targeting people of a specific group, right?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: So what I learned is that there are at least six different St.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Louis area police departments that have recently signed 287G contracts.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: And one of those police chiefs for a municipality not far from Overland,
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: I want to clarify,
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't believe that he was personally involved in this deportation,
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: but He did go on the local news a couple months back and say,
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, you know, that's quite a bit of money.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: The money is a factor.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's just this really interesting shift that has happened from
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: a decade ago after Mike Brown was killed after the Ferguson uprising.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: There was this federal scrutiny of St. Louis area policing.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: There was this whole big Department of Justice Ferguson Commission report
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: that outlined how,
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: you know, revenue-seeking policing turns into violence against marginalized people.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: And now there is this Federal incentive through the 287 program
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: for these small police departments to do basically the exact opposite thing.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of being incentivized away from targeting people of color
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: in their communities, they are now being incentivized to target.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: You're referencing the Ferguson uprisings,
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: which for those who may need a refresher,
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: in 2014,
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: there was a police shooting of an unarmed black teenager named Michael Brown,
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: and that led to a resurge wave in the Black Lives Matter movement at the time.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it led to this renewed scrutiny that you're describing right now.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm wondering, now that there is a new incentive with 287G, has that scrutiny remained?
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: Is it a scrutiny that can be maintained?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think among people in St.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Louis and among activists, that scrutiny is absolutely being maintained.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: I do not think right now that it is being maintained,
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: for example, at the federal government level.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm not just making these connections myself.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: When I spoke with immigrant advocates in the St.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Louis area,
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: one of them basically just got on the phone with me and was like,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: look, this is basically the same stuff we saw during Ferguson.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: It is very top of mind for people in the connection there in a way
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: that I don't necessarily see replicated elsewhere.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so I do think that Local immigrant rights groups,
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: local civil rights groups are absolutely still scrutinizing the police.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: I just do not see that top-down pressure to at least nominally reform
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: or get body cameras or something coming from the federal government.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I see pressure in the opposite direction coming from the federal government.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so let's bring it back one more time to the family at the center of this story.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: A traffic stop led to an arrest,
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: led to a detention,
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: led to a deportation and led to a family needing to relocate back to Guatemala and
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: then led to the killing of the parents of this family.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: How common is this story or is this happening in the broader tapestry
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: of immigration enforcement and deportations that you have seen
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: in covering this story?
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that was one of my questions, too, was this is terrifying.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Has this happened before?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: And the answer is absolutely yes.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Usually when people are seeking asylum,
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: they are doing so because they have a legitimate fear of something bad happening
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: to them in the place where they're from.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody does it just because they feel like it, right?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: There was this report that came out actually during the Obama administration
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: that detailed dozens of people that were deported and
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: then killed shortly thereafter.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: So this is not a unique occurrence.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the people in that report were even from Guatemala.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it is important to note that this is not like a Trump exclusive thing.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is one of the outcomes of a punitive deportation policy writ large.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: It is that people who,
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: like Glendi,
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: might even have an open asylum claim are being sent back to places that they left
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: because they felt unsafe and then bad things are happening to them.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, so Glendi and Nixon were undocumented,
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: but Glendi indeed had an asylum case with a hearing set for 2027 per your report.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for mentioning that detail.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: And all to say,
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: for those that may misunderstand immigration law or may find it very convoluted
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: and confusing,
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: what would be your response to somebody that says, well,
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: they should have come in here legally or they should have gotten
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: in line like everyone else or They should have done it the right way when we think
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: about what happened here.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I have been talking to some of the local reporters in St.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Louis who've worked on reporting this story.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: And one thing that all of us have noticed is that in the comments of our articles,
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: that is the exact thing people say.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, well, they should have come here legally.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: Coming here legally is incredibly difficult,
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: functionally near impossible to get refugee status here right now.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: One of my colleagues at Mother Jones,
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Alex Nguyen,
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: wrote this piece about how most of the refugees in Coming into the U.S.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: right now are white South Africans.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're a Central American refugee or you would like to get refugee status,
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: that is difficult.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to go through the asylum process, that is still technically a possibility.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I found that in many courts,
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: including the court that oversees all immigration-related cases in the state
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: of Missouri, the denial of asylum claims is close to 95%.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it would not be unreasonable of Glendie to assume that You know,
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: she's probably not going to get that asylum even if she has like
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: an absolutely verifiable claim to it.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's one point that people misunderstand how incredibly difficult it is
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: to quote unquote do it the right way.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think another thing that I would say to someone who's like,
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: well, they should have just immigrated legally is so does that deserve death?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like does Immigrating here outside of this convoluted,
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: near impossible to understand legal process,
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: does fleeing to this country out of necessity mean the death penalty?
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: So those are some of the things I would ask people to consider.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: So Sophie, this story is centered in not only Guatemala, but St. Louis.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: What is happening in St. Louis moving forward?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Glendi and Nixon's friends did put together a vigil last week,
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: and hundreds of people attended.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the people who attended was the mayor of Overland who publicly stated
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: that he is committing to not making a 287G contract between Overland's police forces
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: and ICE.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that I think was really good news for Glendie's fellow advocates because she was
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: an advocate for local immigration reform.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: She wasn't just an immigrant, right?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that has been heartening for some of those activists.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think that because St.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Louis' policing is so patchwork,
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: it's not clear to me how much leverage the mayor of Overland has when The mayors
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: and town councils of
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: at least two municipalities directly bordering Overland already have these
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: agreements in place.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: And while federal agents can also just, you know, go roam the streets themselves.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I do think, though, that there is some amount of hope there.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's important to highlight that.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Sophie, where can listeners of the show find and follow your work?
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: And is there anything else that you're looking into right now or curious about
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: when it comes to this particular beat?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: I am pretty much endlessly fascinated by the world of immigration contractors,
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: by who is making money off of contracting with ICE,
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: which is like the most well-funded policing force in this country ever right now,
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that means there are A lot of different companies trying to make a buck off that.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's the big ones, like, you know, there's the geogroups of the world.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: But then there are also, like,
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: one time I came across a company that had contracted with ICE and or DHS to sell,
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: like, knives, just, like, pocket knives to ICE.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's really weird.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the nebulous universe of ICE contracting is something I want to keep looking into.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: And where people can find me online, my work is at motherjones.com.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: I am also on pretty much all of the social media under my name, which is Sophie Hurwitz.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: So please find me there.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: Sophie, thank you so much for your time.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: And we look forward to following your work.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Sophie, for sharing your excellent reporting with us.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: Check out her stuff on Mother Jones, folks.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: You will really enjoy it.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's it for us this week.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you all for listening.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: And as always, be safe, look out for your neighbors, and we'll see you next time.