Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Luke Molloy & Dylan Rees about their choice of Mindwarp (1/4)

Transcript

Talks to Luke Molloy & Dylan Rees about their choice of Mindwarp (1/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:22
  None hamster with a blump.
• 0:34
  Pen knife for doing quicker. Quicker hello and welcome back
• 0:40
  to Hamster with a Blood Pen Life, the Doctor Who Coventry
• 0:45
  Podcast with me, Luke Malloy, my great friend from the Doctor Who
• 0:50
  Too Hot for TV podcast, Dylan Reece and some old man Called
• 0:55
  Joe. Was that Welsh?
• 0:58
  You started off like a Welsh accent Park.
• 1:01
  Knows where you were going. There was like a parody of a
• 1:04
  parody of me. I.
• 1:05
  Don't know what to do with it anymore, no?
• 1:08
  I think you sort of peaked on the Impossible Planet.
• 1:10
  No, The Impossible Astronaut. I listened to it back, but how
• 1:15
  are we lads? Yeah, fine.
• 1:17
  Thank you. I'm getting over a spectacular
• 1:18
  bout of ick. I don't know.
• 1:21
  It's not been flu, it's been stomach and head and all sorts.
• 1:24
  It's been horrible. Squit squitty bottom time.
• 1:27
  Oh, the worst, I'll tell you. Do you need a mind transplant of
• 1:32
  any kind? Frequently, yes.
• 1:37
  Or just Or just to be generally augmented in some way.
• 1:40
  Have you ever thought about becoming a werewolf, for
• 1:42
  instance? A lucosa, you mean?
• 1:45
  A Lucosa who's I always think, oh, it looks very painful with
• 1:50
  the mouth open the whole time, Brian.
• 1:52
  Blizzard does a fabulous impression of him during that
• 1:55
  scene where he's trying to eat the fish and he's going cut turn
• 2:00
  the cameras off the bloody things.
• 2:02
  His teeth's fallen out. You know what I.
• 2:05
  Mean. I can't look at him.
• 2:06
  He just looks. Fucking horrible.
• 2:08
  I think it's great make up that though.
• 2:10
  Have we jumped into like episode?
• 2:11
  Oh, yes. Sorry.
• 2:15
  Sorry that. Was What are we doing today?
• 2:17
  What are we doing? So we're doing the invasion of
• 2:20
  Top now. We're not.
• 2:21
  We're not. We're doing Mind Warp.
• 2:23
  We. Are interesting The Trial of a
• 2:25
  Time Lord parts 5 to 8. Well, I'm going to off both of
• 2:29
  you then. Come on, what do you how do you
• 2:30
  consider this my MORP or 5 to 8 of trials?
• 2:32
  I I I fucking hate people that count it as one.
• 2:37
  More Stories isn't. It I I call it trial of a Time
• 2:40
  Lord mind warp. I'll call it that one with Brian
• 2:43
  Blessed in it because I think it's fabulous.
• 2:47
  Can I ask you both then, before we go into this, what your
• 2:50
  overall opinion of trial of a Time Lord is?
• 2:54
  Love it. Got great memories of it.
• 2:55
  It was, I think, because it was one of the first DVDs that came
• 3:00
  out as a boxer and as a season when I collected DVDs.
• 3:04
  And so it might have been one of the first seasons I ever had as
• 3:07
  like a proper season, so I could watch it from beginning to end
• 3:10
  and just. And I loved Colin a lot when I
• 3:14
  was a kid. Still do.
• 3:16
  And yeah, it was. Just.
• 3:18
  It was just great to be able to watch a full season and it
• 3:20
  really appealed all the sort of how complicated and complex it
• 3:24
  got. Oh shit, for the regular viewer.
• 3:25
  This is basically Mafia Who in classic who isn't?
• 3:28
  It it's shit for the regular viewer.
• 3:30
  Really non linear storytelling all over the place.
• 3:33
  Future iterations of the Doctor. You can't tell me that you
• 3:36
  weren't, like, just drawn in by the Valiard.
• 3:39
  Oh, I love that twist. What an idea.
• 3:41
  What A twist. Yeah, yeah.
• 3:43
  I'm just sad we never saw him again.
• 3:45
  Well, Big Finish done him a few times, but he's not the.
• 3:48
  Dream the Dream Lord got close is that is that it's the same
• 3:53
  idea isn't? It I think he got mentioned in
• 3:54
  the new series, didn't he? There was a There was one name.
• 3:57
  Twice upon a time, I think. What about you then, Dylan?
• 4:00
  Oh, I love it. I I've gone through periods of
• 4:03
  being smarmy and sort of pretentious and I don't like it.
• 4:07
  No, they had 18 months and all they did with this.
• 4:09
  But no, I love it. I think it's wonderful.
• 4:10
  When I first got that that tin with the videos in as a kid, I
• 4:15
  thought it was wonderful. And I did actually, had actually
• 4:17
  seen bits of mind walk before on a big screen at a convention.
• 4:21
  And I just remember like the flashing lights and the alien
• 4:23
  landscape and thinking, oh, what is this?
• 4:26
  This looks like it could be really good, but I've only got
• 4:28
  fleeting memories of it. And yeah, I think it.
• 4:31
  I think it's a it's not quite the the big new invention I
• 4:34
  think people thought it would be.
• 4:35
  But it's a big, bold, fun series with lots of big ideas and it's,
• 4:39
  it is trying. It's trying something.
• 4:41
  Yeah, it's a courtroom drama with loads of cool shit throwing
• 4:44
  in. And I'm watching Broadchurch
• 4:47
  Series 2 at the moment and trust me, you need some cool shit
• 4:50
  throwing in to make it entertaining.
• 4:52
  Excuse me? You've got 8 miles in there you
• 4:54
  know going completely psychotic not you're trying of a Time
• 4:57
  Lords in in you've. Got about 7 doctors in
• 5:00
  Broadchurch to be honest. Marvelous, isn't it?
• 5:02
  I mean, I'm not going to peddle out this story for too long
• 5:05
  because I've said it too many times, but the troll of a time
• 5:08
  on VHS tin came out during probably the lowest ebb of my
• 5:13
  life. And I love this because I'll
• 5:17
  watch that set over and over again as a way of sort of
• 5:20
  escaping what was happening with my family at the time.
• 5:22
  So I've got an enormous connection to this, and as a
• 5:26
  result, I've got an enormous connection to Colin Baker's
• 5:28
  Doctor as well. So he's actually my favorite.
• 5:31
  And that's not just because of what came after with Big Finish,
• 5:35
  but I genuinely love him on the television.
• 5:37
  I think some, spectacularly I'll judged, creative choices were
• 5:40
  made towards the beginning of his reign, but by the time you
• 5:44
  get to the trial of a timeline, man, he's on fire.
• 5:48
  Absolutely. You did say we did a podcast
• 5:51
  last week. You did say David Tennant was
• 5:52
  your favourite. No, he's my favorite Pokémon
• 5:55
  series, but Colin is in fact my all time favourite.
• 5:58
  Yeah, I I did know that. Yeah, you're you're a big good
• 6:00
  advocate for Colin, I think. I basically like all the
• 6:03
  loudmouths. Yeah.
• 6:05
  Yeah, makes sense. Well, should we skip into
• 6:08
  episode one and see what Paint Box has to offer?
• 6:11
  Yes, indeed. Shall I count us in?
• 6:14
  I'll count us in in 543 2/1. What is sad, you know, is that
• 6:21
  we're not going to hear the fantastic, incidental music for
• 6:24
  this story as we go through it. Well, what do we think of the
• 6:28
  opening theme music? Because this is one of my
• 6:30
  favourites, this disco theme. So I never knew it existed until
• 6:34
  I bought the VHS, and by that point I think I thought I'd
• 6:37
  heard all of the theme tune. So to hear this, I was bloody
• 6:40
  excited and I love it. I think it's great.
• 6:42
  I think it's a a walloping bit of 80s Doctor Who.
• 6:45
  It's not as bombastic as the Peter Howe one before, is it?
• 6:49
  But it's got sort of a bit more atmosphere but more moved.
• 6:52
  To it. It's nice and greedy and the
• 6:53
  colours as well really enhances. Cycle the sort of the key drops
• 6:57
  as well that happen especially when you hear the full version.
• 7:01
  Oh, look at that sex the trial model.
• 7:03
  Oh yeah. Now as Luke Malloy will tell you
• 7:06
  from as we discussed recently on a Too Hot for TV, this model was
• 7:10
  destroyed by K9. Did you know that K9K9 at a long
• 7:15
  leak a spark that caused a fire and it destroyed that that
• 7:21
  model? No, my God.
• 7:24
  Oh, can you keep a close eye on those Time Lords behind Linda
• 7:28
  Bellingham there? Because I swear to God, one of
• 7:30
  them drops off at some point in this story.
• 7:32
  One of them. Is already asleep, isn't it?
• 7:34
  It's like I think in Once and Future, a genius for war, that's
• 7:38
  this space station is blown up or something.
• 7:41
  I think it comes back in trial of the Valley yard as well,
• 7:43
  isn't it? Oh yeah, What God, what an audio
• 7:46
  that is. Fan wank to the extreme.
• 7:48
  It's amazing. I know I've heard trial of the
• 7:50
  Valley Yard. I just can't remember anything
• 7:52
  about it. Talk to you off, Mike.
• 7:55
  It's all about the twist at the end.
• 7:57
  Why don't people like these trial scenes then?
• 7:59
  Because this. Come on, let's be honest, a lot
• 8:01
  of people consider this the nadir of classic Who and these
• 8:05
  scenes like the sort of the worst we ever.
• 8:07
  I think. I think it's because it's people
• 8:09
  stood around talking and arguing and I can understand why.
• 8:12
  Over 14 episodes. That might get laborious, but
• 8:14
  it's three people cheering the fucking scenery and I think
• 8:17
  Colin gets some of his best moments in in these trial
• 8:20
  scenes. There's nothing better than when
• 8:22
  he gets one up on the valley on. He sits down with a smug, his
• 8:25
  grin on his face. Such a kid.
• 8:28
  They they shouldn't come in for a hard time.
• 8:30
  They these make the season. This is what the season is
• 8:32
  about. This Is Us watching Doctor Who
• 8:36
  and discussing it like this is the audience.
• 8:40
  So which one's me? Oh, you.
• 8:43
  Can I be Colin? No, we're in the audience.
• 8:45
  We're not. We're not Colin the Valley,
• 8:48
  although between the three of us, there's we.
• 8:50
  There's definitely a Colin, A Valley or the Linda Bellingham,
• 8:53
  but. That's what I mean.
• 8:54
  I mean, we as Doctor Who fans put every single episode on
• 8:57
  trial, so we're effectively these three people discussing
• 9:00
  the content. OK then, so the the the people
• 9:03
  behind the jurors or the audience who look half asleep,
• 9:06
  the general audience? They're not we.
• 9:09
  Luke Maloy should be Inquisitor Darko.
• 9:11
  Oh, I think I'm Valiard. I think Dylan's the Inquisitor.
• 9:15
  No, I'm Colin. I'm Colin.
• 9:16
  After his 18 month hiatus, has been eating a bunch of puddings.
• 9:20
  Do you look? So sexy in that black lever.
• 9:22
  I think he should be the Valiard.
• 9:24
  Oh my God, what is going on with my eyesight?
• 9:28
  This is this is a simple effect, but it is one of whose best
• 9:31
  alien images, isn't it? Yeah.
• 9:34
  It's like this is the McCoy era. Obviously improves on it, but
• 9:38
  this is the first time we've seen anything like this done.
• 9:41
  And I'm sure you'll remember Luke Malloy from one of the
• 9:44
  early Stranger films they tried to replicate.
• 9:46
  I do to mixed results. Is that the is that the SEC you
• 9:51
  was? Yeah.
• 9:52
  Is that where A? More than a Messiah.
• 9:54
  We're calling in an an Ace get naked in The Cave.
• 9:57
  Gosh, yeah. Good size.
• 9:59
  You're in Dragon. Fire, Dylan, when you said that
• 10:01
  the scale of the model of the planet, it's so bad because of
• 10:05
  the size of the ice things and all that, Well, you've got that
• 10:07
  enormous planet in the background there, which
• 10:09
  admittedly looks fabulous, and then some sort of bird or
• 10:12
  something flies by, but it's literally like the size of that
• 10:16
  bird compared to the size of that planet.
• 10:20
  That's fine. It's perspective.
• 10:21
  I reckon that's perspective. That's the image I think of when
• 10:25
  I think of mine more that, and it always surprises me when they
• 10:28
  step in the water as if. As if it's actually real.
• 10:31
  Yeah, like it's just. Like so inured in classic hoop.
• 10:34
  Because I still think that looks great it.
• 10:36
  Does. Oh, no, it does.
• 10:37
  It does. And I love the fact as well that
• 10:38
  they took the tireless prop out and they were supposed to film
• 10:41
  it just just away from the water and the tide came in.
• 10:45
  So they had to do it there. And that just makes it Doesn't
• 10:48
  it have to jump in the water Wacky.
• 10:51
  This less less so good this bit. I believe this was a nudist
• 10:55
  speech in home which John Nathan Turner knew all about.
• 10:59
  Of course he did. You know there was.
• 11:04
  Colin Baker tells a story on The Making Of about how there was a
• 11:07
  guy that sat there all day on a deck chair reading a newspaper
• 11:11
  and it was in the day of heavily unionised BBC.
• 11:14
  And that guy was the vision mixer who was employed to turn
• 11:17
  the camera on and off, as he would do in the studio and then
• 11:20
  mix between the two. But there was only one camera,
• 11:22
  so he literally just had to SAT there reading the paper and got
• 11:25
  paid for. It what a job, And can we just
• 11:31
  say for once, Perry seems to be decked out in attire that is
• 11:34
  suitable for. Yeah.
• 11:36
  Vacation. It's.
• 11:37
  It's neither. It's neither ugly or it's just
• 11:41
  pure naked, is it? I think I like her season 23
• 11:45
  hair as well. Yeah, needs to, I think.
• 11:49
  I don't know, I'm quite. In the hiatus, I think Colin may
• 11:52
  have been in a pork pie or two, though.
• 11:55
  What else you going to do in your?
• 11:56
  Hiatus he never He never comes back from this pork pie though,
• 11:59
  does he? And he goes wrong way.
• 12:03
  What's great about Colin is he knows precisely how to how to
• 12:06
  get money out of BBC. So when they put it on hiatus
• 12:09
  because they've been contracted for that season, he he phoned up
• 12:12
  Nicola Bryant and goes well. But I'm sorry, I used to be a
• 12:14
  lawyer. They were in a legal binder to
• 12:15
  pay us for the season that we're not going to make.
• 12:17
  So they both got their full fee. That's amazing.
• 12:20
  He doesn't love a a paid week off or 18 months off. 18 months,
• 12:26
  yeah. Have we missed the part where he
• 12:27
  calls in the Brickyard? I don't know whether we have.
• 12:31
  There's a bit of that going on in this one.
• 12:33
  Philip Martin absolves himself of responsibility in the
• 12:36
  commentary and says it was all Eric Saywood which.
• 12:38
  Is weird because Eric Saywood usually absolves himself of
• 12:41
  responsibility for anything he was involved in.
• 12:43
  It's all the fault of the producer, John Nathan Turner.
• 12:47
  Classic James when? Me and Chris did lost on
• 12:50
  Gallifrey. We did a really early one on
• 12:52
  Child of the Time Lord and we played Valley Yard Bingo where
• 12:56
  we had all the nicknames that Colin called the Valley Odd.
• 13:00
  And then one different one and you have to spot what was the
• 13:03
  itchy. I wish I had it.
• 13:05
  There's a couple more in the deleted scenes as well.
• 13:10
  When you go to like a scene, there's a couple of other the
• 13:13
  Naka's yard makes it in, doesn't it?
• 13:15
  The Naka's yard makes it in, yeah.
• 13:16
  So we've had some pretty innovative special effects.
• 13:19
  So far I. Think as well now we've got the
• 13:21
  rock creature here just to remind us we're still watching
• 13:23
  Doctor Who. Right, but isn't this what the
• 13:25
  trial of the timeline is about? It's like you get some really
• 13:28
  amazing effects and sets and then every now and then that
• 13:30
  shows up. Or Drathrow wanders in who looks
• 13:33
  cool, stood still, but the moment he starts walking, you're
• 13:35
  like, well, that's a bloke in a costume.
• 13:37
  Do you know? Right.
• 13:38
  I think this shows how Ron Jones has learnt over time, because
• 13:42
  let's not forget Ron Jones started with Black Orchid and
• 13:45
  Time Fly and Arkham Infinity to shoot Doctor Who and he went in
• 13:49
  tight because he knew that costume was fucking shocking.
• 13:53
  So we don't actually see a lot of it, which I think and the
• 13:55
  lights are down and there's dry ice in there, so.
• 13:58
  No, you don't see enough of the rock.
• 14:00
  But what we did just see Speaking of shooting Doctor Who,
• 14:02
  is Doctor Who discharged his laser and accidentally killed
• 14:05
  the rock. Yes, which is a big part of the
• 14:08
  story, isn't it? Moral conundrum here.
• 14:11
  But I mean, he doesn't adopt A killing mine Wolf.
• 14:14
  It's it's it wasn't. It's just the beginning of the
• 14:19
  end. I do wonder if that wasn't a bit
• 14:21
  of a a mission though, that they didn't eventually tell us what
• 14:24
  was real and what wasn't. I know that's the biggest
• 14:27
  problem with this story. The fate of law.
• 14:30
  Isn't this story. It's the fact that in the last
• 14:32
  two episodes, whoever was supposed to resolve it all,
• 14:35
  whether it was Robert Holmes or Eric Saywood or Pippa Jane
• 14:39
  Baker, don't give us definitive answers for it.
• 14:42
  So and that I think lies at the the feet of what it would be.
• 14:46
  Eric Saywood be bugged enough, didn't he?
• 14:48
  So I think it's just the because of what happens at the end.
• 14:50
  Basically. But the often quoted story that
• 14:53
  Colin Baker says on the commentary is he was he didn't
• 14:56
  know when he was acting it. So he asked the director who
• 15:00
  said ask the script editor. So he phoned the script under
• 15:04
  that and he went, Oh well, ask the writer.
• 15:06
  And he had no way of contacting the writer.
• 15:07
  And he was like, well, you guys don't fucking know how.
• 15:10
  How do I play this? And the the scene where it goes
• 15:13
  too far for me, I think is in Part 2 we'll we'll get to it.
• 15:16
  But it's it's you know it's when he's got Perry outside and
• 15:19
  that's that's when it really we need to know pretty much
• 15:24
  immediately from that if he's if he's bad or playing bad.
• 15:28
  The way that's edited that scene, and I will get there with
• 15:31
  that wave crashing into it and her screaming, it's it's as
• 15:35
  visceral as her being slapped the beginning of that scene.
• 15:39
  Now I I want to mention here, and it's not always in a
• 15:42
  positive light, but there there is a a lot more people of colour
• 15:46
  in this cast of of Doctor Who than you normally get.
• 15:49
  There's normally like one or two faces, but here again, a lot of
• 15:54
  them are playing slaves and whores and things like that.
• 15:56
  But it is. It's it's a different look for
• 15:58
  Doctor Who. It is.
• 16:00
  And in fact, I I looked back to 22 thinking about this and I was
• 16:05
  like, yeah, there really isn't any representation at all in 22.
• 16:09
  And you look at the rest of 23, it's pretty, pretty barren as
• 16:12
  well. Yeah, that's not.
• 16:14
  About 14. Here he is.
• 16:19
  It's a question for spin off master Dylan Reece.
• 16:22
  Has the Rack ever turned up in any of the spin off media?
• 16:26
  I don't believe so, no. Oh, that's that's quite rare,
• 16:30
  isn't it? Like everything upon everything
• 16:32
  has. There's there's very few things.
• 16:34
  I think it's that and the Tyrant Wood Beast, and that's about it.
• 16:38
  Sang it three times and they'll be.
• 16:40
  In, I reckon. The future next year?
• 16:42
  The Tyrant Wood Beast has probably been referenced, and so
• 16:45
  for that I don't reckon the rack has ever been referenced today
• 16:48
  again. I believe that's Martha Jones's
• 16:51
  father. Is it?
• 16:54
  Yeah, the actor is. That's Martha Jones, Dad.
• 16:56
  Yeah, it's the same actor, Trevor Laird.
• 16:58
  His name is. Hi, Martha.
• 17:05
  Dad, let me know there's something going on.
• 17:08
  Take your shopping, big boy. I do love that the lighting has
• 17:13
  all been turned down in the story which.
• 17:15
  Is great. Yeah, especially as you consider
• 17:19
  like the outside. You've got that big pink and
• 17:21
  green effect and it's all very bright and it just makes all the
• 17:24
  more different. They turn the lights down and
• 17:26
  again, it's more atmosphere because we all know you nudge
• 17:29
  those lights up a little bit and that's just a Pepe and mache
• 17:32
  cave cave behind them. You bring it down this dark,
• 17:36
  there's anything in the shadows, you know.
• 17:38
  Oh, Luke Dillon, would you prepare the skedaddle test for I
• 17:42
  know. You tweeted this the other day,
• 17:44
  I think. I think the Skedaddle test is
• 17:46
  one of the only times you actually see Colin and Perry on
• 17:49
  the same page, actually like doing something quite nice.
• 17:52
  In this story. No, no, just genuinely.
• 17:54
  Usually it's just bollock and everyone.
• 17:57
  Mark Doddie commented on that. He said.
• 17:59
  It's like they've been together long enough.
• 18:00
  Now that they've got a shorthand.
• 18:02
  I'm like, yeah, we could, we could have done with a bit more
• 18:04
  of that. But there's a few lines in this
• 18:06
  season where they're written and if they were played last season
• 18:10
  they come across quite nasty, but they come across as sort of
• 18:13
  a bit more jovial this time around.
• 18:15
  Yeah. Oh, here we go.
• 18:17
  The Lucos. Oh, I mean, we're getting one
• 18:19
  thing after another. We've had that fabulous beach
• 18:21
  landscape, the rock creature, the guards coming in.
• 18:24
  Now we've got a werewolf. And then we get the mentors.
• 18:27
  It's like all go. And bring him back.
• 18:33
  Oh, see, right. Is he actually?
• 18:36
  Yeah, he died shortly after writing Sil and the Devil Sees
• 18:39
  of Arador. Oh, we did Christine Panda stage
• 18:42
  play, didn't they, for. Who died?
• 18:45
  For the night, they planned the stage play for a sequel to that
• 18:49
  Silk DVD and and that's why they couldn't finish it.
• 18:53
  Yeah, sorry, I do remember. The whole thing about JNT, not
• 18:56
  one is a hiring because he was a sort of a prestige writer that
• 18:59
  had done play for the day. He should have been fucking
• 19:02
  begging him to write for Doctor Who.
• 19:05
  You say that, though, but he does just serve the same.
• 19:08
  Yeah, he does it. He does it single time.
• 19:09
  He. Does it three times.
• 19:11
  He does it. Inventions on Paris in this and
• 19:13
  in Creed of a Chrome on. Yeah, let's not.
• 19:16
  Talk about it is exactly the same story though.
• 19:18
  Lied of my last. I must kill you.
• 19:24
  But he he It's always about transmutation, isn't it?
• 19:28
  It's always. Nasty, yeah, And and it's
• 19:30
  scripts always just leave a dirty taste in your mouth.
• 19:34
  Yeah, there is a there's an edge to this, isn't there?
• 19:36
  You're right. Like, I think from the off, you
• 19:39
  sort of know this ain't going to end well.
• 19:41
  There's something in the atmosphere.
• 19:42
  It's the one when you look at the four stories at trial, it's
• 19:45
  the one that just you look at it just feel generally uneasy or
• 19:48
  you just you don't even know what you don't.
• 19:51
  You don't know what you feel about it, but it's because you
• 19:53
  don't even know if you're watching the fucking Dr. off the
• 19:55
  time. All the music now and the
• 20:00
  mentors come along. The music in this is tops here.
• 20:06
  Is it is it true they didn't have the track?
• 20:08
  They they they could they could never include it as an isolated
• 20:10
  track on any of the media because they that was the one
• 20:14
  score they didn't have the isolated track for?
• 20:16
  Oh really? Which is a shame because it's
• 20:18
  one of the best, I think. Yeah, we've also got the tiny
• 20:21
  Terra Lactal at the front, haven't we that we that we
• 20:24
  missed, Nan? If I could wreck on one thing
• 20:27
  just for absolutely no reason at all, I would have it that Sil's
• 20:30
  Tank is the same tank that the Doctor's hands in when the
• 20:34
  Doctor gets chopped off in the Christmas Invasion for no
• 20:38
  reason. Sorry, Dylan.
• 20:40
  I was just going to say if I could wreck on one thing, it'd
• 20:42
  be that Sil was wearing hit the same suit as in Vengeance on
• 20:45
  Varus, because this one doesn't look as good.
• 20:47
  I think this one's better. Oh no, it looks a bit too.
• 20:50
  It's got very sort of accentuated titties in this one,
• 20:53
  is that. What you like?
• 20:56
  I'm. I'm in the middle.
• 20:58
  I would swap places with Sophie Aldridge in The Devil Sees of
• 21:01
  Arador any day. I'm sure you would.
• 21:03
  And you'd be better. You.
• 21:08
  Guys leave Sophie Aldridge alone.
• 21:09
  Don't worry, it should. Not even.
• 21:11
  End this but. Do you know what?
• 21:14
  Can I just let you know something though?
• 21:16
  When I recorded my Power of the Doctor Times 2 commentary with
• 21:19
  Simon Fraser, one of my things at the end of that was Sophie
• 21:22
  Aldridge. Been the best thing in it so I
• 21:24
  can do it. Best thing in Power of the
• 21:26
  Doctor? Oh, she's marvellous.
• 21:28
  You got? You got bananas.
• 21:31
  What's the best thing in power of the Doctor, Luke?
• 21:33
  John Bishop. Sasha Dewan.
• 21:37
  No, it genuinely is Sasha Dewan, and that's me.
• 21:39
  I'm not even a big fan of his master, but I think he's fucking
• 21:42
  brilliant in that. Listen to this look the the
• 21:45
  value has been calculating just how many times the Doctor's
• 21:47
  companions have been in danger. He's basically like the Time
• 21:50
  Team from Doctor Who Magazine. I That way I go back to the
• 21:54
  trial thing like deconstruction. The show like this does open a
• 21:59
  can of worms a bit, doesn't it? Oh, for sure.
• 22:02
  And I think that is probably not the best time when the show's
• 22:05
  lower confidence slash up against the the critics and
• 22:08
  everything. But like earlier on when the
• 22:12
  doctors turn off to the planet and it's like, yeah, I'm going
• 22:14
  to save these people. It does make you sort of
• 22:16
  question like, well, just who is he to just turn up and say like
• 22:21
  and just tell them how to live their lives?
• 22:23
  Even though we agree with him, they actually say with them, who
• 22:26
  does he think he is? And that you wouldn't think
• 22:28
  that. But the trial process sort of
• 22:30
  opens up that kind of worms, I think.
• 22:32
  He's Doctor Bloody Oh, mate. But it's no different to the
• 22:35
  Time Lords, taking them out of time at the end, and they're
• 22:38
  them solving it their own way. What's annoying is, is there are
• 22:42
  two scenes edited out of this episode because in at the
• 22:45
  beginning it's an inquiry into the doctors, you know, meddling
• 22:48
  in the affairs of others. At the end of episode one of
• 22:52
  mysterious planet, the Valley, art says no.
• 22:55
  I suggest that you know that we take the Doctor's life if you're
• 22:58
  found guilty. And at the beginning of this,
• 23:00
  there's a sequence where Linda Belling with character goes, you
• 23:03
  know, you suggested that we take his life so you better have some
• 23:06
  pretty damn good evidence, you know, for your prosecution.
• 23:10
  And then there's a scene cut out where they basically made that
• 23:13
  call that that that. Yeah.
• 23:14
  And So what later on in Terror the verve voice when in the
• 23:16
  Benlyn goes, the Doctor is fighting for his life Valley
• 23:19
  art. Well suddenly that makes sense
• 23:21
  if those scenes are added in. But there's there's some script
• 23:25
  editing issues here. But the problem with a lot a lot
• 23:28
  of the stories is that they this is the only one that feels like
• 23:33
  it's working towards something within the trial properly, like,
• 23:37
  and even though it doesn't deliver for whatever, oh.
• 23:44
  Oh, we've lost him for a second. I've lost him while Dylan's
• 23:47
  frozen in time. Whilst he's been sharded like
• 23:51
  Tom Baker, the Five Doctors keep.
• 23:53
  Talking a little quick, I'll. Say I just I like Brian
• 23:56
  Breasted's little scum here when he's getting up.
• 24:00
  Oh, tell me you, like Brian Blessed and all of this.
• 24:02
  Oh God, yeah, he's. So funny he's.
• 24:05
  Just said that Varuda, but I. Think I'm back.
• 24:10
  Sorry, I froze. Yeah, you know, we made a joke
• 24:13
  with that. You had a time scoop.
• 24:15
  On. We're all pros at this now
• 24:18
  though I. I I just thought you guys were
• 24:20
  really interested in what I was saying because you were both
• 24:22
  like sex actually made the the best point of the podcast if I'm
• 24:27
  perfectly. Honest.
• 24:28
  Can you go again then, please? And I can't remember what I
• 24:30
  said. It was like old shit.
• 24:31
  It's about mine, what being the only story that actually works
• 24:33
  towards something with the whereas the rest of them,
• 24:37
  especially the mysterious planet, it's just fucking
• 24:39
  nothing, yeah. You could, you could find better
• 24:42
  examples in the last season or the season before that you could
• 24:44
  use as prosecution or or defence.
• 24:46
  I think the Doctors with every right to be very smug in
• 24:50
  mysterious planet where the value has given his evidence and
• 24:53
  he saves the entire universe at the end of the story.
• 24:56
  I've always said maybe Vervoid's a mysterious planet.
• 24:59
  Vervoid should be his defence, Sorry.
• 25:01
  Third Voice should be his prosecution, because he commits
• 25:03
  genocide at the end of that one. They kind of gone the wrong way
• 25:06
  round. You're now charged with
• 25:08
  genocide. Have we gone past that fabulous
• 25:11
  glass shot of the laboratory with all the tunnels around it?
• 25:15
  We've. Seen it a couple.
• 25:17
  Of times. Oh, look, there's that door that
• 25:19
  was worth more than Nicola Bryan.
• 25:20
  Have you heard that story? Yeah, have you?
• 25:23
  Have you? Look, the the invoice for that
• 25:26
  door was left lying around. Colin Baker found it and he
• 25:29
  went, Oh my God, this door's getting paid more than Nicola.
• 25:32
  So he kept going. Come on, let's have another shot
• 25:34
  in front of the door. It's getting paid a lot.
• 25:36
  I. Mean.
• 25:39
  It's a good looking door, but I'd still rather I'd still
• 25:41
  rather sleep with Nicola Brown. How do you fellas find the
• 25:45
  mentors? It's General Stall.
• 25:47
  It's General Stall. I think the mentors are
• 25:50
  disgusting and I love them and I don't know why they haven't been
• 25:54
  brought back. Do you know what?
• 25:56
  Do you know what their marshmallows that they eat are
• 25:59
  made out of? No, is it?
• 26:01
  Peaches. It's Peaches and great with
• 26:03
  green food colouring, that's. It because it's on Blue Peter or
• 26:06
  the opposite to the presenter? The presenter goes oh, tastes a
• 26:08
  lot, lot of Peaches. You see I just.
• 26:11
  Sorry, go ahead. I I I had nothing of value.
• 26:14
  I was just going to say they're brilliant.
• 26:16
  I mean, they look like enormous turds, so get very excited about
• 26:20
  money and torture. That's wonderful.
• 26:23
  They they are like that. Well, they are.
• 26:25
  The six doctors define a villain and I don't think there's any
• 26:28
  shame in there. Like I know they don't.
• 26:30
  They don't compare to the Daleks or anything, but they're they're
• 26:33
  so sort of disgusting and dark and.
• 26:37
  So I was, I was saying earlier that I saw the very first
• 26:40
  doctoring convention I went to was in 1991.
• 26:43
  So I would have been about 8 years old.
• 26:45
  And the big thing, like it was the big production convention.
• 26:48
  There was various guests, but they'd always have one story
• 26:51
  that they'd show in the main hall.
• 26:53
  There are other bits like video rooms and this for this one it
• 26:56
  was like each day they'd show like 2 episodes of Mind Warp.
• 27:00
  And then there was a big making of Mind Warp panel.
• 27:02
  So all the cast and crew were there and but it was I only saw
• 27:07
  bits of it, but I like the images of SIL and the lighting
• 27:11
  and stuff, as I said, just stuck with me forever because they're
• 27:14
  so striking and this is at this point.
• 27:17
  I haven't seen much Doctor Who, but this is unlike any Doctor
• 27:20
  Who I've seen. There is.
• 27:24
  True. Very true.
• 27:25
  In terms of classic here, I think, I think the lighting and
• 27:27
  the set design, this is a cut above pretty much everything
• 27:31
  else you're going to see that looks very like the alien in
• 27:36
  Alien, whose brain is that pulsating.
• 27:44
  Is it? Is it?
• 27:46
  Yeah, that is very odd. It's good that they get that.
• 27:49
  Like it's just thinking about it as well, because other people
• 27:52
  would just go, I'll get a fake brain, put it there, but have a
• 27:55
  pulsating one now. Brian, bless it.
• 27:59
  I don't think. I don't think he's the most over
• 28:01
  the top actor in this. He's sharing the screen with
• 28:07
  Colin Baker. No, no, no.
• 28:09
  There's somebody far more. The bill Shaban.
• 28:13
  It's, I mean I'll, I'll. It's it's not Matrona Carney is
• 28:17
  it? I can't even remember his name
• 28:19
  now, but when he when he comes on, he just does the most
• 28:22
  unnatural performance of anybody.
• 28:24
  And this is an episode of Doctor Who.
• 28:27
  Talking about Tuzer, aren't you the resistance guy?
• 28:29
  No, I'm talking about the scientist in his yellow top.
• 28:33
  He speaks like this all of the time.
• 28:35
  And he's like. I think he's great.
• 28:37
  I. Think he's it's not over the
• 28:39
  top? That's.
• 28:40
  Patrick Reichardt he he's in the RSC, you know did.
• 28:44
  He used to be in Drop the Dead Donkey as well.
• 28:46
  All I remember was he was Romeo in the BBC Open University
• 28:51
  version of Romeo and Juliet because I had to study it when I
• 28:53
  was in school. I think he's terrible.
• 28:57
  I like Earnest. I like the fact in this, but he
• 28:59
  is not like his performance is not the one.
• 29:02
  At one point where he's got to do some surgery, he takes a cup
• 29:05
  of tea 1st and then he goes, right, let's get on with the
• 29:07
  surgery. Bill calls Perry ugly, and she
• 29:12
  just. Smokes in it, she just.
• 29:14
  Jokes because she knows she's shit off.
• 29:18
  The things I don't like about the the new SEAL outfit is his
• 29:21
  hands and the way that the the thing above his eyes keeps
• 29:24
  falling down. Yeah, but he's clearly having
• 29:26
  some trouble with that mask especially.
• 29:28
  This thing I like his chair though.
• 29:31
  Jesus. Every, every line he delivers.
• 29:34
  Doctor won't mind donating his sanity to the advancement of
• 29:39
  things. I won't, I won't Keep going face
• 29:41
  guys. I mean, and the reason why
• 29:43
  they're back is because he made a success of that character.
• 29:46
  Absolutely. Oh.
• 29:47
  No, we we we get our many faces of Colin Baker, which.
• 29:51
  Is that's the only time we're going to see him having a power
• 29:53
  at the end of that episode you. Know you get to see Matt Smith
• 29:57
  and The Big Bang, you know, and the Pandoric is flying into the
• 30:00
  sun. He He's jacking off.
• 30:04
  And Sylvester McCoy, in time of the running, when he's in that
• 30:06
  booth, he. Looks like he's.
• 30:08
  Having a great time. Well, how did you find episode
• 30:13
  one, boys? Oh, it.
• 30:14
  Was a hoot. It's it's really good so far.
• 30:17
  It starts to, I start to really struggle with it in Part 2.
• 30:21
  Not because it's bad, because it's it's the story and the the
• 30:27
  lack of explanation for the Doctor doing horrible things.
• 30:31
  All right. Well, that's certainly stuff we
• 30:32
  can unpick. I've, I always found like two
• 30:34
  and three, there's just lots of running around.
• 30:36
  And then four is sort of where the drama hits, because we're
• 30:39
  heading towards the big climax. I love heading towards the big
• 30:43
  climax. I.
• 30:45
  Think that stands out is just the alien world and I think with
• 30:50
  even though it is similar to vengeance on Varos, he's very
• 30:54
  good at creating that that world and so is the production.
• 30:58
  It's that thing of last season. We get, we get Time Lash and
• 31:02
  there's, you know, there's always a few things that let the
• 31:04
  side down. And I think over these 14
• 31:07
  episodes, although, you know there is things like the Rack
• 31:11
  and things like that, the production value seems of a
• 31:14
  higher, of a higher level than the previous season, like Attack
• 31:17
  of the Cybermen. There's like looks a bit shit
• 31:20
  everywhere, like glitzy corridors and stuff like that.
• 31:22
  And so yeah, I just think it feels like there's more money on
• 31:26
  screen, even though there probably isn't.
• 31:28
  Because the audience and the BBC have fallen out of love with
• 31:33
  Doctor Who a little bit, and maybe J&T has come back with a
• 31:37
  bit of a mission statement. And that's certainly that first
• 31:40
  opening model shot in Mysterious Planet.
• 31:42
  If ever there was a mission statement in Classic Who, that
• 31:44
  was it? Yeah, every anybody who was at
• 31:47
  that conversation where it was first broadcast, because they
• 31:49
  broadcast it live for like Panopticon 8 or something.
• 31:52
  Like they said, there was a massive cheer when that
• 31:54
  spaceship came up and then the moment it was back to that.
• 31:58
  You. Know it's that.
• 32:02
  It's those we're going to be bigger than Star Wars moments,
• 32:05
  isn't it? It's like Doctor Who's finally
• 32:06
  done it and it still does it in the new series all the time.
• 32:09
  And well, it's a little bit more about that with Heaven Scent and
• 32:13
  hell bent in a few weeks. Well, well, yeah.
• 32:15
  I think the next two parts of mine warp is it starts to go
• 32:21
  backwards, even in the Doctor's characterisation of being
• 32:26
  horrible again, which again does It does the whole series of
• 32:31
  disservice, yeah, but it doesn't matter to me.
• 32:34
  It's like what you see on screen, isn't it?
• 32:36
  Is is. What is the last?
• 32:37
  An image. And then what's very strange is
• 32:40
  you go from mind warp to terror, the verve voice which is in the
• 32:42
  future suddenly cuddly and funny and charming and you're like I'm
• 32:49
  calling so good. He can do both.
• 32:51
  He could be scary as hell and he could be charming.
• 32:54
  Well, let's let's head into Episode 2 and watch.
• 32:58
  Take her and bless it, Try and steal the screen from each
• 33:01
  other. OK, I'll cut it there.
• 33:07
  I'll cut it. There, right?