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Amani Duncan: Betting on Your Bold Future & Living an Urgent Life · The Bold Lounge

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Lee Burgess and I will be your host.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Every week we'll hear from someone who has taken the lead on part of an extraordinary journey.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they used to make things happen.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Whether they faced challenges or doubts along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold journey.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be created.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Tune in, get ready to be inspired.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Today I have Amani Duncan, and I'm so excited to introduce you to her.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: She is the former CEO of BBH USA.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: She's also a board member and advisor for Fender, Girl Scouts of Greater New York and Feely.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Amani.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to be here.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love your podcast and I love your platform, and I'm excited for this conversation.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to hear your definition of bold, and we're going to jump right into that deep end.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: What is your definition of bold?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: What does it look like in your world?
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: So the definition of bold shows up in my life or has shown up in my life for many years now.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, being bold has always been about being courageous enough to push myself out of my comfort zone and into the uncomfortable.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I've learned by doing this, it helps me stay nimble and fluid and really has aided my journey as a foreigner in foreign lands, which for me means going into different industries without prior tenure.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Based on your definition, when's the first time you remember being bold?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you can go back as far as you want, or if it might be recent.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm going to go back because it really started everything for me.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: I was in university as a political science major with an international, with a minor in international relations.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was on a trajectory for as long as I can remember to become a lawyer and then eventually work abroad.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: I always wanted to work for the UN in a foreign country.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I graduated, I had a real aha moment because for the first time in my very young life, I was reconsidering going into law, but yet I didn't have any alternative thought.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was, I was very singular in my thinking.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the boldness or the bold move, really for me, was waking up one day and just randomly deciding I was going to work in the music industry.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't know what that meant.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know if you could even have a job in the music industry.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: I just knew nothing.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: But my logic was well, I play piano and I come from a musical family and I like music, so let me just go for it.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that led to me finding at a young label that had an office in Los Angeles.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm born and raised, and I interned for three months and eventually they hired me.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: That was a bold move in and of itself because it was a quite a big pivot.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: But the but the real game-changing bold move for me that started me on my uh trajectory was I wanted to work in New York.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to work in the main office.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I kept calling at the time he was the EVP of promotions, Kevin Lyles.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I would call him every day relentlessly.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like he stopped even taking my calls, but I wanted to show up on his call sheet.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I kept saying, Bring me to New York, bring me to New York.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And he's he's like, I don't have a job.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is wrong with you?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: We just hired you.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, no, no, no.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: I need to be in New York, I need to be the main office.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then one random day, it was a Friday, I will never forget it.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: He called me in the afternoon and he said, Well, are you ready?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, ready for what?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: And he goes, I'm, I have a job.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna move you to New York, be on the red eye Sunday night, then here Monday morning.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I packed up my little bag.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: My mother was crying.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: She was convinced I was having like some type of nervous breakdown.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I was on that red eye flight, I being at JFK on Monday morning at 6 a.m.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I never looked back.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so your boldness was in motion at that point, right?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was very much in motion.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was already leaving the station, but I mean, that is full on.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: It is out of the station, and then it's on its way on a red eye to New York City.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think every time I tell that story, I myself, because it I was so, I was so unafraid.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: I I just, you know, I was raised by these incredible parents.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: My parents were simply amazing.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: And they raised my sister and I to believe that we could just literally do anything we set our minds to do.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so having that found that firm foundation, feeling like you could walk on water, really gave my sister and I that spirit of boldness, like live life fully, even through the mistakes, even through the missteps, lean into it, learn from it.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I just I'm proud of young Amani because, you know, I think back on, you know, myself now.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I would make if I would have the courage to do that.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm glad that I did.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad that I did.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Somehow our boldness gets chipped.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So and for me, it was in probably my late 30s to early 40s.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then by 48, I figured it out like, wait a minute, that's not how I was raised.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what I was born to do.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's not how I'm supposed to feel about myself.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that was my experience.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes, you know, and I like you had very supportive parents who from the very beginning, like, you don't you belong at every table, you should try everything you want to try.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Don't let someone tell you, you know, like it was very ingrained.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, did you ever feel like it got chipped in the middle?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, I was a kid that probably had been to New York maybe one time prior to that move.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, I'm ready for NYC.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Here you come.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, come on, I went there by myself, I didn't know anyone.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: I lived in a hotel room for three months, and as glamorous as that may sound, it was horrible.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was October, it was right before the blizzard of 95 that hit New York City.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an LA girl, and I was scared to death.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to act, you know, I had to have this posture that I was like, you know, down and that I was, you know, I could maneuver around New York City, but I was frightened.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so throughout my career, because I kept pushing myself out of my comfort zone, milestone stages throughout my career, as easy as I may have made it look, internally I was having this warfare with myself.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Imposter syndrome was raging out of control.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I kept it all inside because I didn't have a foundation in New York.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have any family, I had surface friends, I was really a loner, even though I was surrounded by a lot of people.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was masking a lot, which was chipping away at that foundation that my parents had instilled in me.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I remember one day I um had a pretty difficult day.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was still in the music business and I went back to my hotel room where, you know, the at that point it was several months in and the walls were closing in on me.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember going into the bathroom, I was so distressed.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I looked myself squarely in the mirror and I said, the minute, the minute you don't like the person you see looking back at you, that is the moment where it's time to go back home.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I made a promise to myself, and that res grounded me a bit to stay, you know, reminded me of my morals and firm foundation that my parents instilled in my sister and myself through our religion and our faith with God.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that helped to get me back.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: But those moments looking at myself in the mirror, asking myself that question became common because it was tough.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was growing up for the first time.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, looking in that mirror and knowing that there's so many voices sometimes between our ears.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: I even like made a post about this this morning.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like the noise is there, right?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's how much time, how much airtime do we give it?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's impossible to make it go away forever or to never come back, or it's like learning how to manage and talk to yourself, right?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: And understand yourself.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that comes with time and I think maturity and understanding and things working and not working, right?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, well, that really didn't go like I thought it was gonna go.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it doesn't feel as awesome as I thought it was feeling.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: I thought boldness was supposed to be all like wonderful feelings and just exhilarating and exciting, and it is, but there's an other side to it, right?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we can be really cruel to ourselves, yeah.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's in that like time of like when things aren't clicking or when things aren't actually going like you want, and you're learning, you're learning how to understand yourself, you're learning what to do or not to do, or you're learning something new, like you talked about being in an industry that you didn't have experience with, but here you come.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you're coming into the music industry after wanting to go into law.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I'm sure there's some crossovers in there of things, and and being able to take something that you like to do, or you come from, you said you came from a musical family, and you know, you know, what made you want to pivot?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what was it was the calling towards being in the music industry versus being in a law?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: It or did you just know law wasn't it?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: That it's really the latter.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: I just I just decided I didn't want to be a lawyer.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was a very humbling moment because I questioned was that goal truly mine, or was it a goal that I adopted because it was something that I was always told I should be?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's a defining moment.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was a, you know, I was at a crossroads and it was very troubling because I, you know, I was always the good daughter, you know, I wanted to make my parents proud.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to shine in their eyes.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I did, you know, everything that they wanted me to do.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was a dutiful daughter.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really, you know, at I was just at a point where I allowed myself for the very first time to question it.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't like I wanted to be, you know, it I never had this burning desire to be in the music industry, unlike a lot of my colleagues and my peers.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like they knew without a shadow of a doubt that they wanted to be in the music industry.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: That wasn't for me.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I was really a foreigner, you know.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: That was my first foray of being a foreigner in foreign lands, because it wasn't something that I just my heart wasn't, you know, calling me to be in the music industry.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: But but my spirit, it was placed on my spirit to just do it.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I can't explain it beyond that.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it wasn't, I didn't know anyone in the music industry.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I didn't know anyone doing it.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't like I was like, oh, Joe over there is in the music industry, so I'm gonna be in the music industry.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was literally a guttural reaction that paid off.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I've done this throughout my career.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always curious, and that's why I love being a marketer.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: My curiosity has led me to make some pretty bold moves throughout my career that has always paid off.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a combination of pushing myself out of my comfort zone and being constantly curious and easily bored.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: It kept me having this entrepreneurial spirit throughout my career that brought me from music industry to brand marketing, from brand marketing to manufacturing, from manufacturing to media, media to the advertising industry.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'm like, what's next?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been just this incredible journey.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I remember when I was working with Sean Combs as his chief marketing officer, you know, I would I oversaw his fragrance lines, spirit, clothing acquisitions, TV film, philanthropy.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, every day was this new opportunity.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was at Estee Lauder getting ready to launch a new fragrance or over at Diaggio talking about a new flavor that we wanted to introduce for Saratha, flying to LA and meeting with Universal Pictures or Lionsgate or Fox Searchlight Pictures on his next film.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: It was just always something new and exciting.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Again, pushing myself out of my comfort zone with the foundation of being a marketer and being bold about it.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things people think is boldness is being fearless.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know like what your thought about that is.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: I I definitely have moments of like, man, I'm a little scared, but I'm gonna keep going.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna, you know, right foot, left foot it.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, when you're doing those types of things for someone like Sean Combs and you're kind of going into these different spaces and places that you've never been before, you talked a little about being unafraid.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you may be fearless in some of those endeavors.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: What's your thought about boldness and fearless?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Are they partners?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Are they connected?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Such a good point that you make.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, let me clarify: being unafraid doesn't mean that is the absence of fear, in my opinion.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: For me, being unafraid means I'm unafraid to try.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna go for it.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna try, I'm going to try.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: I may fail.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where the marriage of fear comes into place in the scenario.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's been countless times where I am fearful, fearful of failing, fearful of disappointing, fearful of not living up temptations, fearful of letting other people down.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: But the being ugly to try that's bold.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I don't believe bold means fearless, because even you can bold and the emotion of fear can still be present.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just up to try.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like how you use it, right?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do you let it stop you or do you let it fuel you?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think like for me, I was like, yeah, well, it's not gonna stop me, you know, because I just one, I can't.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: I can't stop.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta get this done.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta, I gotta make sure that I do deliver.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: I have to make sure that I can provide.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta make sure that I am able to do this, not only for myself, but for others.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to let people down.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's how you use it.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes it stops people from being who they're meant to be or what they're meant to do.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I always feel sad in that moment because like there's just only so much external people can do for you to actually make that move or you know, you know, do the next thing or go to the next role or try something you've never tried before.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's that just do it moment that I think people need to realize it's up to them.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like no one can do it for you, right?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: My Baba, he was my father, but I call him Baba.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: He would always say to my sister and I to be like water, be like water as it's flowing downstream and it encounters a rock.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: To the naked eye, the water seems to stop, but that's exactly what the water doesn't do.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: The water may move to the right of the rock, it may move to the left of the rock, and it even may slow down.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: But what it never ever does is stop.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: And fear is what stops us and holds us in the place that we're currently at.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: To promise yourself that I'm going to be unafraid, I'm going to be bold, and I'm going to either move to the right of that boulder or maybe to the left of that boulder, or I might go under or above.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: I might maneuver and you know do a bunch of different acrobat acrobatic moves, but I'm not gonna stop.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like you, I always feel sad when people let fear root where they are and they're just so unhappy.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: My Baba passed away at the age of 69 and from pancreatic cancer.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a it was a really, it was a pivotal moment in my life.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he remains as close to me as I breathe, but it was such an emotional journey for me because he was my everything, my first love.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: And he died at 69, four years after he retired.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: And he had worked so hard throughout his life to set himself up and set his family up so that amazing, like next chapter.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of felt like I was dealing with all these emotions.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so grief can bring up a lot.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and one of the things that it did for me was it made me, it cemented how I need to live an urgent life.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: How I need to stop putting things off to like, oh, I'll get it to, I'll get to it tomorrow, or oh, I'm not gonna go for this job, or oh, I'm not gonna travel, or just all the excuses that occupies and then become our truths.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: I said, no, no, I'm not gonna do that anymore.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to live an urgent life.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to continue to be bold, which for me is pushing myself out of the comfort zones and get and and getting into uncomfortable situations until they no longer feel uncomfortable.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because I, because tomorrow is not promised.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't want to wait anymore for the when I get to or I'm going to do this when this happens.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because that is something as we get older, we become more complacent.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's just natural.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: We become comfortable.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Some of us have the handcuffs that keep us rooted in places that we just no longer want to be.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: We only have this one life.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to live it urgently.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: I want to live presently because I've had this beautiful journey.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't always take time to sit in those joyful moments, in those moments of accomplishment, but I would wallow in those moments of failure and replay what I didn't do or what I should have done over and over and over in my head.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now, because wisdom brings beauty and grace and mercy on your life, I'm I'm like, no, I did that and that happened, or the team, we accomplished that.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: And we're going to take a moment to really like celebrate it and not just move on to the next, because there's always going to be the next.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: But that moment of joy, they're fleeting.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so you want to be intentional about it.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, that's living bold.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think an urgent life is a bold life, it's an intentional life.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're going to soak up the moments and you're not going to let one moment overtake another.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you make a really good point of, you know, we've done incredible things in our careers.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Probably our listeners can, you know, think about, oh, yeah, I did this and I made this and I created that and I helped X, Y, or Z.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: But like, how much time did you actually spend like enjoying it, sitting in your praise, sitting in that space versus how much of like I didn't do enough?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: I need to do more.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was told I needed to do X.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I can maybe survive it.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I always really feel again, probably sad is the world that comes to my mind.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: When people say, Well, I'm just trying to make it four more years.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, tomorrow isn't even promised, like, let alone four more years.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, and I think that comes just, you know, if you if you know this about me, but I lost my brother when I was six, and so he was 11.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: And like I learned really, really early, like it's not guaranteed.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: And to see my family go through it and all the things they've done, incredibly bold, powerful, strong people kind of go through such terribleness.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but using it to do better, to be better, to make the world better, like they kind of turned it in this phenomenal way.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I think, you know, for me, like the YOLO came out of me like at age six.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you know, we gotta live, we gotta live.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then, like I said, somewhere in the middle, like it got chipped where Like, okay, I just gotta do this and I gotta get to the next level, and I gotta go from you know, AVP to VP to chief to you know, like, oh god, when in my life did that become like the main thing, and you know, it it becomes like you said, habit, it becomes where you get comfortable or where you think you belong all along.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's something inside of you going, This doesn't fit, this isn't aligned, you're not happy, and then you're like, okay, like you stuff that down and then you sit somewhere else again.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: So with if you're kind of going through that, or you know, you advise for people who are in that space where like they have that moment of like this doesn't fit.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: What would be your guidance to them?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, such a great question.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I been in there, you know, I'm just thinking back, I've been in that position a few times throughout my life.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, life can come at you really fast and and really urgently.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I would always lead up to these points and think back on them, because I do a lot of self-check-ins with myself, it's a it's a habit that I started many, many years ago, back to when I was a young girl looking at myself in the mirror and asking myself back a question of like, do I like who I see?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, do I like the person that I am?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then making changes if I didn't.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I I've trained myself to know when it's time to move forward.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: I've trained myself to do it unapologetically.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: I tend to find that women's we carry a lot of guilt with us.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: We think we have bigger responsibility to others than we really do.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes that compromises us to ourselves.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: The question you ask me is it's a little hard to answer because it's so personal.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: It has a lot to do with your personal circumstances.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's there's many times when we're on a job, and I mean, we all want to leave sometimes.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't mean everyone can just quit their jobs.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't I definitely don't think but it's like you have that moment of like, I think something's off.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: And we it doesn't mean we instantaneously can do something about it, but sometimes I think, you know, my example, I just kind of like stuffed it down, like, you know, maybe they don't go away.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then it kind of kind of comes back and it roars back in a way that's but maybe 10 times as you know, for me, I had to quit without having anything.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because it just I got to a point where I was so burnt out that I had stuffed that down so much that I can do this.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really good at my job, I'm really making a difference.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, I was wearing myself down from the inside out, I think.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think the I think the best for me personally, the shift for me, another bold shift for me.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: I finally decided to start betting on myself.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: When I I just I was like, why am I concerned, overly concerned, about being employed?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: I've never been employed.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: So am I not taking more control and standing firm on the reputation that I've built for myself?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why am I again imposter syndrome?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Why am I second guessing myself?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: And one day it just snapped.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: I just said, you know what?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to bet on myself because I'm worth it.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm actually worth it.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: I've put in the work, I'm successful.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm no longer going to walk forward with fear.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to remind myself to continue to be unafraid to try something.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: And when I made that promise to myself, I got like a lot more courage.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: It also was at a time when I made the decision that I was going to live an urgent life, a life with intention.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that if it if where I was at no longer served me, I wasn't going to, like you said, push it down, wish it away, pretend it's not is.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to be bold, address it.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: And if I can't fix it, I'm going to bet on myself and move forward.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it served me well.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a gentle reminder that tomorrow is not promised.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Think about living the life I want to live in this short period of time that we'll be here on earth.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Am I living powerfully?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Am I living a bold life?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Am I honoring myself?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: And we, you know, if you answer these questions, no, then it's time for you to consider making a pivot.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because you you deserve that.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: You really do.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you will find that even though it feels scary, because again, being bold or being unafraid is not the absence of fear.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: It may feel uncomfortable, but no, it's only temporary.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: And this too shall pass.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: Honor yourself.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: You've worked hard, you've paid your dues, you're better than you think you you you are, and silence those voices in your head that's telling you you're not enough.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because you really are.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: You really are.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, what do you think, you know, from the perspective of why people don't bet on themselves or honor themselves?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think is maybe the root of that?
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: What has happened for individuals?
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, your example for me, like my example would be I just I was I was actually scared.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: I I was the, you know, I'm the breadwinner.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um I can't, it's selfish if I make a move or if I do this or that, or I'll be letting people down.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think those are the two things that come to my mind just off the cuff of it was selfish and I'd be letting people down.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I wasn't betting on me at all.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it was disappointment, disappointing others.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it's funny because it wasn't about my disappointing myself because it wasn't, I didn't think I was worthy, you know, I didn't think that that was uh an emotion that I could have.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was mainly because I was going into industries without tenure, I had a lot against me.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: It was always about proving someone wrong.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna show them that I can do this, I'm gonna show them that I deserve a seat at the table, I'm gonna show them that they're wrong.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: But the root of all that bravado, false bravado, was the fear of disappointing, the fear of maybe they're right.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I'm not good.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I'm not worth it or worthy of the promotion or the of the raise.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that really was the imposter syndrome.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Even though I was achieving great, you know, being promoted all the time, eating divisions as the first and only Black woman to do so, breaking barriers, like none of that mattered because I wasn't even allowing myself the moment to even acknowledge that, or even find the joy or the or the, you know, like, wow, I just did that.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: That wasn't allowed for me.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't allow myself that grace and beat myself up terribly for many, many years.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was borderline cruel to myself.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: The voice like anything anyone said to me would roll off me like oil to water, because whatever you said to me, I've already said to myself 10 times worse.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a really sad statement, a very humble, honest statement.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Acknowledge that.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it makes me sad to think about that Amani during that period of time, who was so cruel to herself, all because she didn't want to disappoint everyone.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: She didn't want to disappoint the people who took a chance on her, she didn't want to disappoint her parents, she didn't want to disappoint the people that she was managing.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was never about just Amani, the way you're talking to yourself, the way you're treating yourself, you're disappointing yourself.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Forget everyone else, because you shouldn't talk about yourself in that way.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: And whenever I recount this to other people, so many people are like, I do this, I know how it feels.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: We can be our own worst enemies.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, what kept me at a period of time not so much rooted in places I didn't want to be at, because part of me was always pushing and myself out of my comfort zone into the uncomfortable, it was once I got there, beating myself up about any infraction, any misstep, any anything.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Not letting it just say, okay, you know what, this happened, let me learn from it.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: The internal warfare that I was having became paralyzing in and of itself.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it was, you know, it's for me that was really the reason why maybe I didn't live, didn't honor myself, and was rooted in the sense of fear of disappointment.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's more common than maybe we want to admit, it's fear of insert here, you know, insert the word for it's the fear of what?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: The fear of disappointment, the fear of losing some, the fear of of um, you know, not getting the raise, the fear of it could be just insert.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Fear is the root of all evil.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: I remember when I was managing a team of people and mostly women at Viacom CBS, and we would be in a review, like maybe a six-month review.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I would always ask at the end of the conversation, because I'm a mentor manager, so I was also mentoring a lot of people.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: I would ask them, I said, why didn't you bring up the conversation around a pay raise?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they would just look at me shocked, like I didn't think I deserved to ask.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you just had a glowing review, and they just wouldn't.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so women versus men and asking for a pay raise, and in the sense of like you, they just had this incredible review, they had remarkable feedback, and it isn't it isn't in them, it isn't their first thing to think, okay, well, I just I deserve as much, or let me try this, or let me negotiate.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm sure you know Alex Carter, who's just an incredible negotiator on this another level.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, you know, why don't we ask for more?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: But it comes back to what you were just talking about, that internal voice, that internal warfare sometimes we have ourselves.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm not really that good, or maybe I shouldn't, or maybe they'll think I'm this, or maybe it's too forward, but something in others that that doesn't that that never holds them back.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: So when it comes to women asking for more, wanting to do and and advocate for themselves, I think that also comes with living an urgent life.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like the time is now.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: When when what are you waiting for?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when when is going to be the right time to ask for what you deserve or what you feel you deserve?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you should be able to back it up.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: It isn't like you're not doing a good job or you're, you know, failing, or you never tried, or you didn't show up.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you did all those things, so you deserve it.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: So as you're, I think what I'd love to end on is like advice for getting to that point where people realize today is the day for the urgent life, it needs to begin today.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, what advice would you give to women or men?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: But particularly, you know, we're both women.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just kind of put it out there.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't think sometimes women advocate for themselves to be living that urgent life.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, thank you for this amazing conversation.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: I just could talk to you for hours on end.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was fun.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just love it.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, wow, you know, it really comes down to silencing the voices in your head and changing the narrative.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: You are enough.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I would always tell my female uh co-workers, a quiet mouth does not get fed.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to speak up and speak on your worth because no one, this is business and no one's benevolent, and you are putting in the hours and the work, you know, you are leading teams powerfully, you should not feel underappreciated.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: We already know that women statistically make less than men.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: So if you feel that you're not compensated fairly, or if you need a raise or a promotion, have the intelligent business conversation with your manager.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: And even if it doesn't happen immediately, you're setting the wheels in motion and you're actually also honoring yourself.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: You will feel so proud of yourself that you took control over your career and your life and you put it out there, your expectations.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: I used to have expectation conversations with my manager because I never assumed that my manager knew what I expected from this role.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I would have these check-ins of like, I expect in one year to be promoted to X.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: I expect this pay rise to happen here.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: And let's set some benchmarks and let's do three-month check-ins.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: Your career is your own business.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: And when you start reframing that, you reclaim your power and you'll start moving very differently.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: I will end with this one story.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: When I was coming up in the music industry, I was doing video promotions, and that's when we have the music videos and we tried to get them on the various music channels.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: I was only doing the urban roster because back in the day, people of color would only work urban music.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Never understood why.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: I found out that my counterpart, who was white, was making probably three times more money than I was making doing the exact same job with a fourth of the roster that I had.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: Roster meaning all the artists that I was responsible for.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: I marched myself into my boss's office and I had a business conversation about it.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, I want to do the entire roster, meaning country, rock, pop, hip-hop, urban, RB, the entire roster.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I want a pay rise because of X, Y, and Z.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the boldness of that decision to do that was because I was at the top of my game.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I wasn't asking for anything that I didn't think I deserved.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: I had receipts, I had a business strategy, I had all the reasons why.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I went into that meeting very prepared.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end of the day, they had to honor it.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: And there, I was one of three black people in the entire music industry that did the entire roster at a major record company, and I never looked back.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I was not even 30 at that time.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: So part of it was like I was angry that this was happening, but the other part of it was like I firmly believe that this is what I deserved.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: So a combination of that was a was incredible, and it gave me the courage, even though I was fearful to, you know, I walked into there with a little bit of fear, like I'm about to ask for a really big thing and expose a lot of people.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I was unafraid to try.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: So there was an injustice.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: You took a constructive route, which wasn't guaranteed.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: But in it, again, I go back to some of your great words you said.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: You were unafraid to to really bet on yourself.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: You were betting on yourself all the way to the door and out.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes you have those conversations, like you turn around, you walk out, and inside you're like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I just did that.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like if they could see what's you know, I'm thinking right now.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I think you you bet on yourself and you really stood up for what you believed in, which was you.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: Which was me.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: And the other thing that you said, which I think people need to hear, is your career is your business.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: You are the CEO of your life, your family, your friends, your your your career.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can live an urgent life in all those different layers of your life, but you're in charge of it.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where I think sometimes in the middle we we just forget we're in charge.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we're waiting for someone to save us, or waiting for someone to do X, or waiting for the clock to tick.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, stop waiting.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's urgent.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: You need to live your life now.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right on.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you so much.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, we could definitely talk for hours.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so thankful.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: Find out more about Amani in the episode notes and what she's up to and where you can connect with her.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you for being on the Bold Lounge.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Through the continuum of bold stories, vulnerability to taking the leap, you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact on it through their unique and important story.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold country.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing with the next bold journey.