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Richer by the Dozen: What We Gain When We Let Go with Pamela Mutz! · Anchored by the Sword

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Thank you for joining me on this episode of the Anchor by the
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Sword podcast. I pray that today's episode will
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leave you encouraged and also challenged in your faith.
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And I pray that you would take the stories that are talked
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about here today and share them with other people.
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Thank you so much for joining me and enjoy today's episode.
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Welcome to this episode, the Anchor by the Sword podcast.
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I am here today with Pamela Mutts and she had a book come
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out called Richer by the Dozen, and she has a ministry called
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Dozen mom.com. And I'm just really excited to
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learn more about her, just everything that she has going
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on. So, Pam, thank you for joining
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me today. Thank you.
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It's such a privilege. Thank you Gina for having me.
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Absolutely. Can you tell my listeners a
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little bit about yourself? Sure.
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I was born and raised in Colorado, so that's my wild
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side. I love the outdoors.
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I love being outside. And I lived there and grew up
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there for 21 years. And then I went to California
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for training with crew for the high school ministry.
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And so because I live on the wild side, I put down no
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geographical location. I just wanted to see where God
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would place me. He placed me in Indianapolis,
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and I'm like, where in the world is that?
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Because from the West, I wasn't that familiar.
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And so I looked it up. I was like, wow, it's so Far
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East. But anyway, I ended up in
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Indianapolis and it was there that I started dating my
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husband. So my my life first started.
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I've always had a warm heart towards God and I remember even
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sitting on the front porch while the rest of my family was
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asleep, reading my my basic little Bible and underlining
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phrases in the Living Bible. And then I had the opportunity
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my sophomore year in college to go to Israel.
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And so it was there that the tour guide, because of me, I was
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just, I'm always competitive. I was the first one on the bus.
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And so I'd be sitting there on the bus.
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And so the tour guide engaged in conversation and he said, Pam,
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did you know that God loves you, that he has a plan for your
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life? And I'm like, yes.
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And he said, do you understand about the Muslim Israeli
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conflict? I said, no, I really don't get
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that. He said, well, you will tomorrow
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when we go to the Temple Mount. And he said, did you know that
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there's over 300 and 50 Bible prophecies concerning Christ's
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death, burial, and resurrection? And that Jesus fulfilled all of
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those 100% in the New Testament? And that's just fifty of those
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were fulfilled. It would be a crazy number, like
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one in one quad trillion possibility.
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And I was like, Oh my goodness, that's awesome.
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Well, if God knew that much about Jesus and how he would
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fulfill the prophecies, and certainly he knows what's best
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for my life. So when we got to the Jordan
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River, I got baptized in the Jordan River, rededicated my
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life to Christ, and that really began the great change point of
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moving from a passive warm faith to really growing in my
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relationship with Christ. Yeah, I've always wanted to go
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to Israel, and I had an opportunity one time, but my
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parents didn't want me to go. Now I was 18, so I could have
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said doesn't matter, I'm going to go.
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But I was choosing to honor what they were saying because I was
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still living under their roof. But then they turn around and go
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to Syria a few years later. So I was like, hey, what was
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that? I guarantee you Israel is safer.
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It's crazy. See these 18 year old girls with
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ponytails carrying AK-40 sevens and they're just like wow.
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I know I was like, I never even held a gun besides one of the
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water guns that we used to nail each other with down at the
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retreats and stuff. the Super Soakers, that's what they were
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called. I never even held one of those
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until I was in my, I don't know, 20s, early 30s.
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So I can't, that's just crazy to think about.
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So let's talk about your story from there.
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So you got baptized in the Jordan and then you moved into a
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different level of your faith. Let's talk about after that.
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Yes. So in college it was, it was a
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challenging time for me because I really have not been
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influenced highly by, by others. And I was willing to walk in the
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hard places with just, you know, who I was.
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I was at a physical education major and a dance and Fine Arts
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minor. And so college was a challenging
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time where I did feel a lot of loneliness was standing in my
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faith, but it was OK. And so, and it's so cool because
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I had a lot of my friends, a handful of friends that really
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came to Christ later on in life because of the relationship we
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had developed in college. So that was cool.
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So then I went out to California for crew training.
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And it was there that I was going into a session, I walked
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in to sit down and there's a guy that's looking at my Bible,
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reading the back of it. And I'm like, that's strange.
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And so I sat next to him. And then when we had a break, I
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went outside and I was he said, well, let's just hang out and
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talk for a bit. And so we found out we had a
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similar background. I grew up with horses and heated
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as well. And I was actually Colorado
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shares posse Queen And anyway, love it.
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And so I loved horses. They were a lot safer than boys
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so. Very true.
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So. Well, when you find out where
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you get placed, let me know. And so he knew that God had
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called him into business. So he moved, went back to
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Indiana and then voila, I get on my paper when I open the
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envelope. Indianapolis.
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And so I contacted Bill and said because I was raising support,
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right? I said, hey, I got place in
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Indiana. And so meanwhile, God had been
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working in his heart. And before I'd even walked up to
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where he was sitting in that session, the Lord said to him,
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prepare to meet your mate. And he said, I've only heard God
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speak to my heart twice, and that was one of them.
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And so he was like, and so that's why he was interested in
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talking to me at the break. And he'd always watched me
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having my quiet time down by the stream because, you know, I miss
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nature girl. But anyway, and so long longer
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story short, it took a while. I didn't want to get married
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till I was later in my 20s. And at the time I was 23.
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And really, Gina, that was one of the worst struggles in my
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life because I wanted to honor God.
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I want to be a missionary overseas ultimately.
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And I didn't want to get married.
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And basically God had to hit me over the head with a hammer
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before I moved into that because I found out that girls and women
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in ministry don't understand that marriages ministry as well.
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Yeah, yeah. I did read that part in your
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book where multiple people were telling you and confirming that
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the two of you are supposed to get married.
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And you're like, I don't know. I don't know.
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I've got too much stuff going on and too many things that I want
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to be able to hear from God and I don't want to be distracted,
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which I guess. Those times.
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Do you know where I I remember going to this one church and
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praying for three hours. Wow.
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Nothing through Scripture. And then I went to get my car
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and I heard this still small voice.
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And, you know, when God's talking to you, it just connects
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with your heart. And he said, trust me.
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And I looked up at this guy and I'm like, yeah, what does that
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look like? And so as I've gone through life
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and gone through many various things, I believe there's times
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when God reveals something specific and other times where
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He's asking you to step out in faith and make that decision.
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And I have seen over and over that if you truly have a
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surrendered heart to Him, you are not going to miss His will.
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He will bring that back around to you.
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If you have a surrendered heart and truly want to follow, follow
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Him. He will not let you miss His
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will. Amen.
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Absolutely. So you went on to have 12 kids?
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Oh, that's what they say, Gina, when Bill said, hey, when do you
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want to have kids? And I said babies are ugly and
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they all look alike. Once one, I mean, I had babysat
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once in my life and it wasn't even a baby.
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And so, yeah, I knew nothing about kids and being athletic,
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too. I rarely have my period.
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And so everybody believes Billy Graham.
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And that's the name of my doctor that I went to before we got
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married, Doctor Billy Graham. Of course, it was that Billy
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Graham on OBGYN. And he said, Pam, you're going
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to have a hard time getting pregnant.
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And so I was like, oh, OK, He said, so I wouldn't go on birth
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control. So when we got married, about a
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month later after our honeymoon, I came home and I'm like, Oh my
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gosh, what in the world is wrong with me?
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I feel so sick. Well, guess what?
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Yes, I was pregnant. And so about nine months later,
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that baby came and it's like God woke up a nurturing gene in me I
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didn't even know existed. And as we were talking before
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the podcast started, my book contains a story after each of
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my in each of my chapters that they wrote of an area in which
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God asked them to surrender. And our oldest daughter wanted a
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large family, and she'd had endometriosis growing up and
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just struggled for so long. And that pain is so difficult
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and so sad. And so as we walked through that
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time with her, as she went through that infertility and
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that disappointment in life, God met her and her family was
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formed in a different way than what she would have imagined.
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But God was still faithful. Absolutely.
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So the breakdown of your kids is 7 boys and five girls?
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Were those all separate pregnancies?
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Wow. It was, I don't know, it was a
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lot of time being, like I said, it wasn't at all what I'd ever
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dreamed of or you thought, Gina. The thought had never even
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crossed my mind. That's how far away from the
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truth I was. In fact, if I met Bell and would
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have known that, I'm sure I would have run like crazy.
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Yeah. But so after Carrie was born, as
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I began to pray, I felt like the Lord just told me that He was
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Lord of my womb as well. And if I was to surrender to Him
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and everything, which is the decision I'd made when I got
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baptized in Israel. And that's why I could walk into
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marriage and God had to had to take me through.
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That was really, really a hard time understanding God's will in
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that. And that took some time.
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But then when Carrie was born and God woke up that nurturing
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gene, I'm just like, OK, Lord, I'm going to trust you for
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whatever that looks like. And that's what I found Gina.
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It's like not just a one time trust of saying yes, but it's an
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ongoing time of saying yes to Jesus over and over again.
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Yeah, absolutely. So what is the age breakdown of
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your kids now? What's the age range?
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OK, 48 down to 21. Wow.
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Yeah. Yeah, my my oldest nephew just
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turned 25 and my youngest nephew is 13.
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That's fun. Yeah, Well, I want to encourage
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women, whether God gives you one child or 22, or if the Lord
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doesn't allow you to have children, He wants to walk
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through us in any of those challenges.
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And that child is a gift from God.
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And so he just wants us to be in relationship with a, he wants us
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to partner with him. And I think if we go back to
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Genesis 1 and 2, we see how God partnered with Adam and Eve in
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the garden. And then of course, we have the
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fall that happens. And that happened because they
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chose not to believe God. And I actually, as I've been
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going through these decades of life, see that God wants us to
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walk in relationship with him, in partnership with him, and he
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desires to bless us. And whatever challenges we have
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or difficulties, he is there ready to open up his hand just
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like you with your, you know, your nieces and nephews or us
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with our children to bless our kids.
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But he wants that to be a love relationship with him that he
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actually, I believe out dreams, our dreams, just like you, Tina,
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look at you're doing a podcast, you've written a book and you're
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getting ready to speak. How awesome is that?
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Probably something five years ago you never thought you'd be
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doing. No, absolutely not.
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I mean, the podcast is going to be 5 years old here in March,
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and that's still insane to me that I've been doing this now
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for five years and in ministry for six and that I still have no
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idea what I'm doing. Most of the time I'm just trying
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to say yes to the next thing and trying to figure it out as I go
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and trying to let go of the control tendencies that I tend
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to have, which people will say I do have because I have the ADHD
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brain. I have the type A personality,
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so I'm very much like I got to see things, I got to see the
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results, I got to know exactly where I'm going and how it's
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going to affect things. But also I have to try and which
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has been it was easier when I was younger to do.
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Yes, yes, as you. As I'm older now, it's harder
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for me to have faith in the let go.
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Where is back then I could let go and have the faith.
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So it's it's a lot different now and I'm figuring all that out as
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I go. Good girl, good girl, and have
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you ever seen God let you down? No, no, not once.
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Easy I in fact, I'm writing a talk right now that I'm giving
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for next week weekend. And it's every little yes.
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And it begins with us trusting God and looking behind and
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seeing what formed our faith or what was a blockade to our
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faith. And so whether you went through
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wounds, whether you were abused, whether you had parents that
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really didn't live out Jesus and lived a double life, whether you
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had parents that that walked with God, that all is part of
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that formation of our faith that begins.
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But today we can say yes, where we are now to start to grow.
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Amen. Absolutely.
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So throughout your life and your journey, what Bible verse or
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verses have kept you anchored? Well, Jeremiah 2911 for I know
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the plans that I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for
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welfare and not for calamity, to give you a future and a hope.
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And I said, as I've been walking through these decades with the
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Lord, I have seen that it's true that He does know the plan and
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His plan is way better than mine.
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And I was fighting His plan because that is not what I
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desired or what I wanted. And yet I know when I finally
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surrendered to him when I got baptized in Israel, I have
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continued to see God's faithfulness over the years
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through not only God being my my Master, but where I'm at, my
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mate, how God brought about my mission and then going through,
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I'll say, another immortality. So it was back in 1980, I had
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the worst day of my life and we had just gotten back from
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vacation and I was so tired and we just plummeted it into bed.
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And the next morning my husband got up and he said, Pam, make
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sure you give the kids a kiss goodbye.
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And so I said, of course I will. And so as I kissed him goodbye,
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I was starting to have my quiet time in the morning and I heard
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this boom, boom, boom down the stairs.
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And it was our 2 1/2 year old Carrie.
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And so I was playing with her on the bed.
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And then before long, I heard our seven month old Jonathan
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start to cry. And so I said, Carrie, let's go
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grab him. So we got him, took him out of
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the crib, came down, We're playing with him on the bed.
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And then I said, Jonathan, you stink.
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You need a bath. And so we had had a guest who
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would come with us the night before, and he had brought his
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dogs. And so I let them outside.
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And we had only lived in this house a month.
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So I put in just a couple inches of water in the bathtub.
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And then I put Carrie in the bathtub.
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And then Jonathan, who'd been sitting up for well over a
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month. And then I heard the dogs
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barking. And I was like, oh, my goodness,
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I do not want our neighbors to get mad.
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And the bathroom was right by the front door.
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And so I said, you guys, I'll be right back.
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So I went to call the dogs and call them and call them and they
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didn't come. And something inside of me told
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me I needed to get back right away.
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And so as I came in, I had seen Jonathan had fallen over and
18:34
ingested water. And so I screamed.
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The guests came down and started doing CPR.
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And so as the story ensued, it was so, so heartbreaking because
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we ended up going, of course, right away to the hospital after
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some of the paramedics had worked on him at our house.
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And they moved him to the hospital.
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And it was the first day of our best friend, his internship to
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be in the ER. And he said, I know this baby.
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And so another doctor worked on Jonathan and he became the
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conduit between the room where they were working on him in the
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ER and our waiting room. And then Warren came out and he
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said, Bill and Pam, we lost Jonathan.
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That wasn't anything at all that we had expected.
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It was just a normal day, just like any day.
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And that's what I tell my kids. Accidents can happen anytime,
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and so is Bill. And I got in the car and picked
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up Carrie. We came back home.
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He walked in the room and in our house and he sat down on the
19:44
bench and held up his Bible. He said, we either believe this
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book is true or we don't. And so he said, Pam, I want to
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know that I forgive you because as we had left, Warren had
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shared that over 85% of spouses get divorced when the loss of
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with the loss of a child. And so to me, that was the
20:04
greatest miracle. And then I needed to walk into
20:08
that forgiveness myself. So it was about a month later,
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Carrie and I were shopping. We went to the mall and she said
20:16
Pony please can I get a balloon? And I said, sure, Carrie, of
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course you can. And so I said, hold on to it
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tightly. So she grabs the balloon.
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We go outside and I open the car door and she hops in her seat.
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And then she gets buckled in. And then she goes, blow me,
20:37
please. Can you put down the window?
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And I was like, well, Carrie, if I put down, please, I put down
20:42
the window. So I put down the window.
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She grabs the balloon, kisses it and pushes it out the window and
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looks up to heaven and says, Jesus, this is for Jonathan.
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Tell him it's from Carrie. And of course, I just started
20:56
bawling. But you know, I've seen like,
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whatever difficulties we're going through, whether it's a
21:01
difficult marriage, the loss of a child, the loss of a parent,
21:05
the move of a friend, that God is just asking us, will you let
21:11
go and invite me in to heal that wounded heart?
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And he will, and he does. Hey.
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Man, I'm so sorry that that happened.
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Thank you. God has used it in such a
21:26
powerful way in our family and who knows if that's why we kept
21:29
going with kids or not, but it, it definitely became really
21:35
something special that we celebrated every year.
21:38
We still celebrate to this day. And it's it's a wonderful
21:43
tradition. We get balloons, we write on
21:45
them, we send messages. In fact, I have a children's
21:47
book called Jonathan's Balloon, which I'm just trying to find a
21:51
watercolor artist to finish out the illustrations.
21:54
But it's been written for quite a while.
21:56
So I'll hopefully this video comes out.
22:00
Yeah, wow, wow. I guess I'm so sorry that you
22:04
had to go through that because I lost a nephew at 2 1/2 and he he
22:12
had leukemia and he got it at when he was one or 1 1/2.
22:18
And then he went into remission after a bone marrow transplant.
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And then it ended up coming back fast, furious.
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And he end up passing away in 1005.
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And so I remember that day like it was yesterday.
22:35
I remember the feeling. But yeah, it was a devastating
22:38
loss. So, you know, walking through
22:42
that, he's the reason I'm a nurse, but he's also the reason
22:46
I'm not a pediatric nurse because I can't, I can't take
22:50
seeing kids sick. That for me is the thing I can't
22:54
take. But yeah, but God used it.
22:59
He's used it multiple different ways.
23:02
Well, and I, I talk more about that in detail because it's not
23:07
just time that heals, but time plus truth that heals.
23:13
And at some point we need to make that decision to release
23:17
that hurt. That's why Jesus died on the
23:19
cross, right? That he came to take those hurts
23:22
upon him to bring us healing and having that view for eternity
23:30
has made all the difference in how I've lived my life.
23:34
And I know that that was very much affected because of what we
23:37
walked through with Jonathan. But instead of living in defeat,
23:42
I know that I get to see him again.
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And so however that looks in the heavenly Kingdom, I get really
23:50
excited about it, especially when I'm exhausted and tired.
23:53
I'm like, Lord, take me, take me.
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But but no, I'm just so grateful that I learned that principle
24:03
that God loves us and He has a plan for us and He's asking us
24:08
to know Him, to know his character, who he is.
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And that's what's so important about spending time with Jesus
24:18
every day, even if it's just talking to him as you're driving
24:21
the car or whether you're doing a devotion or a Bible study, and
24:26
then just surrendering your heart to Him.
24:28
He promises to bring that healing.
24:31
Amen. Absolutely.
24:33
So your book, Richer by the Dozen, we've hit on it a little
24:37
bit. The subtitle on it is What we
24:40
Gain When We Let Go. And I do love how you have the
24:43
balloons. On the front cover.
24:46
Now I get, now I understand it, so I love how that's on there.
24:51
What were some of your, I would say maybe favorite stories or
24:56
chapters to go into? OK.
24:59
Well, so 21 years in Colorado, 21 years in Indiana and then my
25:04
father-in-law was like, Bill, we need to look for a business in
25:09
Florida. They wanted us to live down
25:10
there, but we had just remodeled our house.
25:13
All of our kids were so happy in school.
25:15
Everything was going so well. And then came this other
25:20
transition Master mate mission, move, maternity, mortality,
25:27
maternity and then move. And I'm like, what, why are we
25:31
going to move? And the deal kept falling
25:34
through Gina And we just thought what?
25:36
It's not going to happen. And then one day it did fact.
25:39
It was on my birthday, November 20th, 1996.
25:44
And so little did I know what the Lord had in store for us
25:47
there. So we had, our oldest was a
25:50
freshman at Purdue, and we told her to go to school close by so
25:55
that we could get to see her. And then here we move away from
25:57
her. And then we had these high
25:59
school students, of course, every other year, basically all
26:02
the way down to, you know, newborn.
26:04
And so we moved there with 10 children.
26:06
And then it was such a difficult time because again, it's like
26:13
you're wearing a name tag that has your name, Pamela Mutts with
26:17
nothing filled in underneath. And so there you go again.
26:22
Where's my identity? My identity is in who Jesus
26:25
called me to be. And the calling.
26:29
I remember seeing women when I'd walk in and they would lean over
26:32
and whisper and like I'm sure they were saying, you know how
26:35
many kids that woman has? But whatever women like to, you
26:39
know, gossip about or talk about.
26:42
And so it was again, just anchoring my heart in the word
26:47
of God, just as your podcast is called, you know, the the sword
26:50
of the Spirit, God's sword. And so as I began developing
26:56
relationships and my kids developed relationships, whoever
27:00
knew that 20 years later God would call my husband to be
27:05
mayor of Lakeland. And so that's crazy.
27:09
Another M mastermate mission, paternity, mortality, more
27:12
maternity move and now mayor. And so I was praying about it.
27:20
He he told me that there were three men that had asked him to
27:23
go to lunch. I was like, what for?
27:25
And he said, I have no idea. So they asked him at that lunch
27:30
if he would run for mayor. He goes I am not political and
27:34
they said great and so. That's what we want.
27:38
Yeah. So they said it's by a
27:41
bipartisan is what a mayor supposed to be anyway.
27:45
So he said, I'll pray about it. So one of the men said, has Pam
27:50
ever prayed about it? And he said, oh, yes.
27:52
In fact, she told me if I ever wanted to run for mayor that she
27:56
would support me. And he closed his book, got up
27:59
and said, well, that's done. And Bill in business in, we had
28:04
Lakeland Auto Mall in Lakeland and he had already been
28:09
involved. He loves people more than
28:11
anybody. I know, Janina, he just loves
28:14
people. He was already been involved in
28:16
over 21 community aspects, whether it's a 5O1C3 or you're
28:23
just volunteering. And so, you know, he was
28:26
building those relationships while I was at home and it was
28:29
really lonely at times, of course.
28:32
But you can read more about that in the book.
28:35
Some amazing stories of just how God, God met us and how he kept
28:40
me on track, focused on the children and not getting
28:44
sidetracked in a business running marathons or mini
28:48
marathons and other things. And so I'm really, really
28:52
grateful that he served for eight years, 2 terms, and he run
28:58
for a third term. But he was just telling our
29:00
oldest grandson in the house that we're in right now as a
29:03
senior. They went and did errands
29:05
together yesterday and he said, Noah, there's two times I've
29:10
heard God speak to me and one was dating your grandmother and
29:15
he said and if God wouldn't have spoken to me, he said I probably
29:19
wouldn't have pursued. She was so difficult to date.
29:22
And the other one plus, to not run for a third term because our
29:27
children and grandchildren were just saying you're so busy, we
29:30
can't ever get to hang out with you.
29:32
And so that's really what precipitated that.
29:35
So the Lord had told him that it's enough.
29:39
And so he would have loved to have done a third term, but
29:42
that's really where God called us right now at this point in
29:45
time. So we are we so far Gina, since
29:50
January 5th or 6th when he handed the baton to the next
29:56
mayor, we maybe sat in Lakeland, Tampa, Orlando, Atlanta,
30:06
Chicago, and now where are we, Indiana?
30:11
Wow and. Then I'm headed to North
30:13
Carolina, not till April, but anyway.
30:17
That's awesome. I love traveling too.
30:22
I, I went to Chicago last year. I'm actually going again, June
30:27
or July visiting one of my one of my girlfriends that moved out
30:31
there and her husband got in a residency program and so she's
30:36
out there with him and I'm like, we miss you.
30:40
So I was like, OK, more excuses to go out there.
30:43
It's all good. I know.
30:45
And you know, people say, well, where's your favorite place that
30:47
you ever lived? And I said, well, my heart is in
30:50
Colorado. But but God's calling is more
30:54
important than what we want, right?
30:59
And so we can find good wherever we choose to surrender to the
31:05
Lord's heart. Amen.
31:06
Absolutely, Pam. I have loved our discussion
31:09
today. Where can people find you?
31:12
OK, if you go to at Dozen Mom on Instagram, you will see that is
31:21
available. And then now I just started this
31:24
pam@dozenfamily.com is where you can e-mail me Pam at Dozen
31:30
Family and then the book you can find on Amazon and it's called
31:35
again, Richer by the Dozen, What we gain when we let go.
31:40
I love it. What's the last piece of
31:42
encouragement that you would have for someone listening
31:44
today? Don't get discouraged where you
31:48
are right now. God has something to teach you
31:51
in each season and even when we're discouraged, you know this
31:55
is a Psalm where all many of us have have heard Psalm 23.
31:58
The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want and just to
32:02
remember that he really is there to meet our every need
32:07
emotionally, physically, mentally and spiritually.
32:11
And so just slowing down to spend time with him and to part
32:16
take in that relationship and to start that relationship growing.
32:21
If you've never spent time with him, start in the book of Mark,
32:25
the second book in the New Testament, and just start to
32:28
read it and ask God, what is it that you have to say to me?
32:33
What is it that you want me to understand?
32:34
If you want me to be in relationship with you and just
32:37
begin to read, take a book out so you can journal in it.
32:41
Write down questions you may have.
32:43
Find somebody who's a step ahead of you who can help answer
32:47
those. And also, I mean, there's a
32:50
couple places I love bibleproject.com version Bible.
32:54
Those are great places to go. And my husband and I are doing
32:58
one story that leads to Jesus, which is awesome.
33:01
It has Bible project videos in it and then the word of God.
33:05
It's a great combination. And then also daily worship
33:09
initial that I don't know. I just learned about that a year
33:13
ago and it's Monday through Friday praise time.
33:17
It's about 10 to 15 minutes. It's awesome, love it.
33:22
That's awesome. I'll put links to all of that in
33:24
today's show notes. And like I said, I cannot wait
33:28
to just see what you're going to do next, Pam.
33:32
And like I said, it was so great talking with you and guys.
33:35
I will talk to you next episode. Thank you so much for joining me
33:39
for this episode, the Anchor by the Sword podcast.
33:42
I pray that the story that you heard today will encourage your
33:45
faith, challenge your faith, and also help you as you walk in
33:49
your daily life. If this episode has done that,
33:52
please feel free to leave a five star rating and review.
33:55
Wherever you listen to this. Podcast so that others can find
33:59
it and grow as well. Have a blessed week and I'll
34:02
talk to you next episode.