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How Liu Bang Outsmarted China's First Empire — The Fall of Qin Begins | Silk and Steel · UK Column Radio

0:00
Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Silk and Steel Podcasts
0:03
Speaker 1: Chinese history series, where we talk about Chinese history from
0:06
Speaker 1: the deepest antiquity to what we optimistically hope will be
0:10
Speaker 1: the present day thereabouts. As we live through the our
0:14
Speaker 1: own chaotic warring period of a sort, it is always
0:18
Speaker 1: good to, you know, revisit the chaotic.
0:22
Speaker 2: Warring periods of the past.
0:23
Speaker 1: We have been through the Warring States period and that
0:25
Speaker 1: was the source of many of these like opening jokes
0:28
Speaker 1: for me. But fortunately the Chin dynasty Chin Empire only
0:33
Speaker 1: lasted a little more than a decade, so we are
0:35
Speaker 1: back into the like you know, total war situation essentially
0:39
Speaker 1: in the ancient China, which always, you know, helps us
0:42
Speaker 1: to get a perspective, I guess on our current day.
0:45
Speaker 1: Once again, I am the perpetual guest JJ, and welcoming
0:48
Speaker 1: us back is Carl from Bali.
0:49
Speaker 3: Hey Karl, Hi, JJ, thank you for your lovely intro.
0:53
Speaker 3: As always, we are now in the year three o
0:58
Speaker 3: seven BC, in the aftermath of the epic Battle of
1:03
Speaker 3: ji Lu, which is I think it's seven right, two
1:08
Speaker 3: o seven Yeah, I'm sorry, you're you're right, two o
1:10
Speaker 3: seven BC, in the aftermath of the decisive battle of
1:14
Speaker 3: Juli Lu that broke the back of the Qin army,
1:19
Speaker 3: and you could argue decided the fate of the Qin
1:23
Speaker 3: dynasty when chiang Ui showed up with his fifty thousand
1:28
Speaker 3: two forces and somehow was able to crush a Chin
1:34
Speaker 3: army that number four hundred thousand strong, but in particular
1:41
Speaker 3: Changri and the rest of the rebel lords, they were
1:45
Speaker 3: able to almost annihilate the army for Chin army forces
1:52
Speaker 3: led by Wangli, which is the most elite crack frontier
1:57
Speaker 3: troops that was previously guard in the Great Wall. Another
2:02
Speaker 3: thing about Wandi I wanted to talk about is that,
2:06
Speaker 3: you know, there's a lot of questions about how the
2:10
Speaker 3: former Crown Prince of Chin, Fusu got suicided, right because
2:18
Speaker 3: Fusu was together with his friend General Monk Tien, who
2:22
Speaker 3: was in command of the front of the frontier troops
2:26
Speaker 3: at the Great Wall, and somehow imperial decree comes order
2:29
Speaker 3: both of them to commit suicide, and then Fusu just
2:33
Speaker 3: go ahead and does it. Now, I just recently came
2:36
Speaker 3: up with a saw another video who came up with
2:40
Speaker 3: what I think is a plausible theory how it actually
2:43
Speaker 3: happened because one thing is Monk Tien commanded you know
2:50
Speaker 3: what a monitude three hundred thousand troops. Of course that
2:54
Speaker 3: includes all the corve labor that was drafted to support
2:57
Speaker 3: to feed the troops and et cetera. But uh, the guys,
3:03
Speaker 3: the man who made the video pointed out, you know,
3:07
Speaker 3: you have to remember the first emperor was a very
3:10
Speaker 3: suspicious person. He had a very suspicious overtune. As much
3:15
Speaker 3: as he trusts Monkey, and you know, it's a quite
3:18
Speaker 3: different level to trust him with almost all of the
3:22
Speaker 3: chain's elite forces. Uh there there. You know, there was
3:26
Speaker 3: a famous case when Wangle's grandfather one Jan when he
3:30
Speaker 3: asked for six hundred thousand Chin troops in order to
3:34
Speaker 3: conquer the True State. And yet when when it's time
3:40
Speaker 3: for him to embark on his expedition, he keep on
3:43
Speaker 3: asking for land and titles, and to the point that
3:48
Speaker 3: his deputy Monkey and was like, General, aren't you being
3:51
Speaker 3: too greedy? Like like what are you doing? And one
3:55
Speaker 3: Gen replied, look, our our lord, the the king was
4:01
Speaker 3: soon to be impert is a very suspicious person. Now
4:05
Speaker 3: I commanded all the forces that Chin Steak can can mobilize,
4:10
Speaker 3: you know, like I have to make sure he can
4:13
Speaker 3: absolutely trust me, you know, by by showing my greediness.
4:18
Speaker 3: I'm actually telling him, look, I'm just want I just
4:21
Speaker 3: want a comfortable retirement.
4:24
Speaker 1: I just he's trying to be transparent or portraying himself
4:28
Speaker 1: as transparent in his motives exactly so that he does so.
4:32
Speaker 1: That changed Shawondas and think, oh, this guy maybe wants
4:36
Speaker 1: to uh play politics with the throne or something.
4:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because you know, it's it's he has
4:42
Speaker 3: to convince the first the future first import to trust
4:46
Speaker 3: him with a command of the six hundred thousand troops,
4:49
Speaker 3: you know, by by you know by uh in Chinese,
4:53
Speaker 3: this culturu is like, you know, kind of self, how
5:00
Speaker 3: do you self incriminating? Uh bye bye bye by you know,
5:05
Speaker 3: encourage his reputation of being greedy and and and it worked.
5:09
Speaker 3: It worked because when in first Import heard about this,
5:12
Speaker 3: he laughs, it's okay, yeah, he just he just wanted
5:15
Speaker 3: to be a rich man. You know, sure, go ahead,
5:17
Speaker 3: you can have all these land and titles. So to
5:21
Speaker 3: think that first Import would trust Monk Tien with you know,
5:27
Speaker 3: the bulk of the chain forces, uh, you know, he
5:31
Speaker 3: must have some.
5:33
Speaker 4: Way insurance policy, insurance policy, and that insurance policy is
5:38
Speaker 4: likely Wangle, you know, being the grandson of the famous
5:42
Speaker 4: General Wang Chian would he would already have prestige in
5:46
Speaker 4: the army.
5:47
Speaker 3: So uh so, the the scenario that this guy proposed was,
5:52
Speaker 3: you know, the imperial envoy from and Les probably when
5:57
Speaker 3: when they went to the army camp, they probably went
5:59
Speaker 3: to Wangli. First. Let's say they would Wanly first read
6:02
Speaker 3: the imperial decree, and then Wan Lee invites the Crown
6:07
Speaker 3: Prince Fusu and General Monk Tien to come to his camp.
6:13
Speaker 3: And then and then in that setting the imperial decree
6:17
Speaker 3: was read, you know, with all one this man inside
6:21
Speaker 3: the camp. So at that point Fusu didn't have much
6:24
Speaker 3: a choice really, and this is why Monk Tien he
6:28
Speaker 3: didn't object. He he objected on like procedural ground. He said,
6:33
Speaker 3: let's verify because it's kind of hard to dispute this
6:37
Speaker 3: is a fake imperial decree because imperial decree back then
6:41
Speaker 3: you will have the seal of the Emperor which is
6:45
Speaker 3: being kept by Tag for safekeeping, and you would have
6:49
Speaker 3: signed up by the Prime Minister Lise. You know, it
6:53
Speaker 3: just so happened that Lisa and Saga were colluding together
6:56
Speaker 3: on this uh for this this thing. But but there's
7:00
Speaker 3: no way for for for common for for the rest
7:03
Speaker 3: of them, there's no way for them to dispute the
7:06
Speaker 3: actual authenticity of the decree. So the only choice Monkey
7:10
Speaker 3: and has is trying to delay delay it, go go go,
7:13
Speaker 3: like go through the procedural way, like okay, let's verify,
7:16
Speaker 3: let's let's let's uh. But but so there's no but
7:20
Speaker 3: for Fushu, there's really not much choice because you know,
7:24
Speaker 3: Wangdi already received a degree, and he's the executioner of
7:29
Speaker 3: the Imperial will and and and you imagine Fushu and
7:34
Speaker 3: Monken were surrounded in uh Wangdi's camp and Wanly had
7:39
Speaker 3: just happened to be the guy who took over from Monkey,
7:42
Speaker 3: he became ex commander. So I think that's a plausible,
7:46
Speaker 3: that's a quite think. So yeah, yeah, and uh and
7:50
Speaker 3: and and you.
7:51
Speaker 1: Add though that sma Chan would not have said so
7:55
Speaker 1: because uh, I guess one way one explanations as well.
7:59
Speaker 1: The the version that's so much and wrote in this
8:01
Speaker 1: Grand in Records to the Grand History, and it's this
8:05
Speaker 1: show of like you know, confusion and style loyalty, you know,
8:08
Speaker 1: philial piety, philial loyalty of the son towards his father.
8:13
Speaker 1: You know, he feels that he can't. It makes Fulso
8:15
Speaker 1: look very good. But you know the other version of
8:18
Speaker 1: the story would make what would you know, still make
8:22
Speaker 1: the change Shawan look kind of bad, which is consistent
8:25
Speaker 1: with like the Han dynasty narrative. Well you would be
8:30
Speaker 1: was dead all right, right, but but but the change
8:33
Speaker 1: WANs but the state apparatus right the dynasty by that point.
8:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I don't know, I don't know. I know
8:41
Speaker 3: for me that that that makes uh makes most sense.
8:44
Speaker 3: Are you actually had some Yeah, you actually wanted to
8:48
Speaker 3: comment on the Battle of Chiulu itself.
8:50
Speaker 1: But yes, the Battle of Julu. So what happened? What
8:52
Speaker 1: was there was that you have a slightly like the
8:57
Speaker 1: Chin before when uh, before force Chang used true army arrived,
9:02
Speaker 1: the Chin armies, the combined Chin armies of Wangli and
9:06
Speaker 1: Shanghan are probably somewhat larger, but not decisively so then
9:10
Speaker 1: the combined allied forces and so we were discussing, you know,
9:13
Speaker 1: if Chang, if Chiang Yu had not been the one
9:17
Speaker 1: to take this like you know, leap of faith and
9:21
Speaker 1: attack to discombobulate the Chin army maybe someone else could
9:26
Speaker 1: have done it.
9:28
Speaker 3: The combined Chin forces was larger than the rebel forces
9:32
Speaker 3: because well, according to the historical sources, right right, combined
9:37
Speaker 3: wang Bi and Zanghan forces were four hundred thousand, So
9:40
Speaker 3: Wangdi had commanded two hundred thousand, or the frontier troops
9:44
Speaker 3: on the Great Wall Sanghan commanded additional two hundred thousand,
9:48
Speaker 3: the rebel forces would not have been more than two
9:51
Speaker 3: hundred thousand at the time.
9:53
Speaker 2: Right right, right, Yeah, So let me just clarify it.
9:55
Speaker 1: But in terms of facing Wangli, like, the armies are
9:59
Speaker 1: still so somewhat comparable, and because Changhan's army is still
10:03
Speaker 1: quite a distance away, you know, you like, they couldn't
10:07
Speaker 1: they would not be able to intervene immediately, so they
10:10
Speaker 1: could still reinforce, but not immediately. So they were I
10:13
Speaker 1: was thinking, you know, and we discussed this to an extent,
10:17
Speaker 1: could someone else have done been in a position to
10:21
Speaker 1: do what Hiangui did? And one of the reasons why
10:23
Speaker 1: someone else was not was because of the position of
10:25
Speaker 1: their army, because they were both to the north of Wonging,
10:29
Speaker 1: So when they if they were to attack him, they
10:32
Speaker 1: basically the wanly can then send word to Changhan that
10:36
Speaker 1: I'm being attacked, send reinforcements. The line of communication is clear.
10:40
Speaker 1: When hiang Yu shows up, he's further south. He attacks
10:44
Speaker 1: basically in between those two armies and discombobulates them and
10:47
Speaker 1: it's able to like fight them piecemeal. This is the
10:50
Speaker 1: most likely explaination for why he's not completely his fifty
10:53
Speaker 1: thousand guys were so not completely enveloped and swarmed by
10:57
Speaker 1: the Chen army. Is that even if he seizes some
11:00
Speaker 1: of the fortifications along this supply route, if Wang Lie
11:04
Speaker 1: sends like half his army down down as well, I'm
11:06
Speaker 1: not sure how he's going to resist. But the thing
11:09
Speaker 1: is for Wang Lee, he's he doesn't know when these
11:13
Speaker 1: other rebel armies facing him are going to move. I mean,
11:17
Speaker 1: I guess he can suppose that, oh they are all
11:20
Speaker 1: like you know, looking out for themselves, they're not going
11:22
Speaker 1: to attack, But as like you know, professional cautious commander,
11:26
Speaker 1: he can't assume that. So he's the presence of these
11:29
Speaker 1: forces forces him to keep most of his army where
11:33
Speaker 1: it is and would prevent him from sending more troops
11:37
Speaker 1: to reinforce the Changahan who's trying to beat back Shaan
11:41
Speaker 1: Yu's attack right, and so this is probably what happened
11:44
Speaker 1: during these we know about nine engagements where Shan Yu wins.
11:48
Speaker 1: Is that in the course of these nine engagements, the
11:51
Speaker 1: Wang Lii is probably sending more and more reinforcements over time,
11:54
Speaker 1: you know, due to like basically incomplete battlefield reports commun
11:58
Speaker 1: as to how bad the situation is, realizing how bad
12:01
Speaker 1: it is, it is getting worse and worse, He's sending
12:03
Speaker 1: more and mormon and if eventually he gets to a
12:05
Speaker 1: point where his army is probably weakened, its spread out
12:09
Speaker 1: enough that the other rebel armies deciding or it's their
12:12
Speaker 1: chance we have There was a fictional portrayal of this
12:15
Speaker 1: kind of situation in that it's more about it Like
12:17
Speaker 1: a decade ago, there was that Jedlee movie about the
12:20
Speaker 1: Typing rebellion warlords where the it's about these like basically
12:25
Speaker 1: ruffian bandit people who are able to become soldiers and
12:31
Speaker 1: then like make some of them make it big. And
12:33
Speaker 1: in their initial battle they they're conscripted as the government troops,
12:37
Speaker 1: and in their initial battle they're with the main government army,
12:40
Speaker 1: and the main government army guys is like we'll show
12:43
Speaker 1: up to like make it look like we are part
12:46
Speaker 1: of the battle, but we're not going to actually participate
12:49
Speaker 1: right now.
12:50
Speaker 2: But that actually does and we don't.
12:52
Speaker 1: Really see them doing anything until the act, until the
12:55
Speaker 1: typing army is discombobulated by Jed Lee and his bros.
12:58
Speaker 1: But in reality it would make a difference because it's
13:00
Speaker 1: going to affect how it's going to force the other
13:03
Speaker 1: guy to commit piecemeal because he's got to hold something
13:06
Speaker 1: in reserve for this other for these other troops standard
13:09
Speaker 1: that he doesn't know are just there for show, right,
13:12
Speaker 1: So Wanly, he doesn't know that the rest of the
13:14
Speaker 1: rebel army is just like sitting there waiting, like not
13:17
Speaker 1: going to not planning to do anything, do.
13:20
Speaker 3: Something in the end. Yeah, at the end, right, it
13:23
Speaker 3: did pile on the dog, pile him. Yeah. Yeah, that's
13:28
Speaker 3: a good point. That is a good point. And and
13:30
Speaker 3: and and also the I think the key is there's
13:33
Speaker 3: a quite bit of a distance between one of these
13:36
Speaker 3: troops and Someheimes troops. You know, the supply corridor is
13:39
Speaker 3: seventeen kilometers long, so like that's plenty of space for
13:45
Speaker 3: shown you to kind of cut the cut the communication
13:48
Speaker 3: and the supply line. Another important point is one on
13:51
Speaker 3: these supply was cut off. You know, he has a
13:54
Speaker 3: lot of mouths to feed. We don't know how long
13:56
Speaker 3: those nine battles lasted. Uh, you know, but two hundred
14:01
Speaker 3: thousand men require a lot of food, and I'm assuming
14:05
Speaker 3: like most of the food was being supplied by Zanghan
14:08
Speaker 3: from the south, and when the you know, you can't
14:12
Speaker 3: fight on an empty stomach, man like, like, I don't
14:16
Speaker 3: know how Again, I don't know how long the those
14:18
Speaker 3: nine battles lasted, because Shang You did also only order
14:22
Speaker 3: his troops to bring three days of supply three days
14:25
Speaker 3: of raction, so assuming it didn't happen more than oh
14:31
Speaker 3: but but no, that was after Shangui's main force crossed,
14:35
Speaker 3: because Shang You sent the vanguard under Imbu and guys
14:39
Speaker 3: first first to cut off. And after the line was
14:42
Speaker 3: cut off, then Shang You move with the main forces
14:45
Speaker 3: and then and then sink all the ships and break
14:49
Speaker 3: their all the cooking pots. And by the way, that's
14:52
Speaker 3: a that's the origin of another Chinese d and pool foods,
14:55
Speaker 3: and so to break your pots and sink your ships,
14:59
Speaker 3: and it's to show determination, right, there's no point of return.
15:03
Speaker 3: Uh you know. Another another famous famous Chinese medium coming
15:08
Speaker 3: out of this battle. So after the end of the battle,
15:12
Speaker 3: though the Qing Dynasty troops there are Bruis, but they're
15:18
Speaker 3: not decisively broken because you still one these troops got
15:23
Speaker 3: wiped out, but you still have Sanghan's two hundred thousand
15:27
Speaker 3: men in the south and we're as Shun even now
15:32
Speaker 3: now he's undisputed leader of the rebel alliance. You know,
15:36
Speaker 3: all together the rebels probably have about two hundred thousand,
15:41
Speaker 3: so they're equal size. It's the equal size forces. And
15:45
Speaker 3: add to that is Sanghan is wall supplied. You know,
15:49
Speaker 3: he still has a lot of food and the you know,
15:53
Speaker 3: Sanghan being a very cautious commander. The place where he
15:57
Speaker 3: decided to situate his camp is protected by on the
16:02
Speaker 3: flank by the Tail mountain and on the other side
16:05
Speaker 3: is protected by two rivers, the River Zog and River
16:09
Speaker 3: Huan and Shan set up like a layered defense. He had.
16:15
Speaker 3: He first he gathered like the a lot of the
16:18
Speaker 3: Wangis remnant troops uh he he he gathered them together.
16:24
Speaker 3: He put them in the front, and he has his
16:27
Speaker 3: uh another group of his his forces. He sat on
16:31
Speaker 3: the on the left wing, UH just across the river
16:36
Speaker 3: and he didn't set with his main forces in the back.
16:40
Speaker 3: And the you know the reason he said this kind
16:43
Speaker 3: of triangle thing is this all these forces will be
16:47
Speaker 3: able to you know, support exactly. And but Shang forced
16:53
Speaker 3: flushed with this the great victory at Lu. They start
16:57
Speaker 3: to press southward, you know, with their high morale to
17:01
Speaker 3: press forward. And then when they make contact with the
17:05
Speaker 3: remnant Wong, these forces, the onlies remnant forces start to
17:10
Speaker 3: pull back. But this was Zunghans plan, his plan to
17:15
Speaker 3: draw the rebel forces into a trap where you know,
17:20
Speaker 3: they can be attacked on all three sides. But Shang
17:25
Speaker 3: is not a dumb dumb you know, this is not
17:28
Speaker 3: his first rodeos. He he he saw through some Himes plan.
17:32
Speaker 3: So he ordered his troops to break contact and to
17:38
Speaker 3: march slowly forward. So eventually the two army now settled
17:43
Speaker 3: into a long stalemate. They set across each other across
17:49
Speaker 3: the river, equal sized army two hundred thousand on the
17:53
Speaker 3: north side and two hundred thousand on the south side.
17:55
Speaker 3: What Shang then he did was he sent Army of
18:00
Speaker 3: Tao under the Tsau commander Suma to lead lead the
18:04
Speaker 3: sal forces to go around some Himes forces uh, to
18:09
Speaker 3: attack the back, to attack, to cut off sometimes retreat uh.
18:15
Speaker 3: You know, because the one reason Zanghang, it said, pretty
18:20
Speaker 3: was because he could rely on the green supply from
18:23
Speaker 3: his from his back, you know, coming from this area
18:27
Speaker 3: called this area north just north of the Yellow River
18:32
Speaker 3: and south of the Taihan Mountains, there's an area of
18:34
Speaker 3: kind of flat agricultural land uh that was very productive.
18:39
Speaker 3: And so so the Sau Commander's SMA led the Tao
18:43
Speaker 3: army to flank out flank Sunghan and took that area
18:50
Speaker 3: uh in the back and cut off some himes retreat.
18:53
Speaker 3: Now Zunhan is trapped.
18:55
Speaker 1: The true Army army's logistical situation is is still pretty
19:00
Speaker 1: that at this time.
19:01
Speaker 3: It's pretty bad because they were already starving. Back before
19:05
Speaker 3: when Sung Yi was still the command, they didn't have
19:08
Speaker 3: much grain. The idea was they will go to you
19:11
Speaker 3: know what Shangu said, They will go help the Tzao
19:15
Speaker 3: state and they will get resupplied in the in the
19:19
Speaker 3: land of Tsao. But the Tao forces have been besieged
19:24
Speaker 3: in Julu for four months before that, so they they're there,
19:27
Speaker 3: they ate all their stuff already. Yeah, yeah, they don't
19:30
Speaker 3: have much in grains in reserve either so, but anyway,
19:34
Speaker 3: but the two sides settled into a kind of stalemate
19:37
Speaker 3: for four months. Sanghan he you know this is not
19:43
Speaker 3: his first rodeo. He he's he has had faced the
19:46
Speaker 3: same situation before when he was defeated by Shang's uncle
19:51
Speaker 3: Shang Yang. I don't know what he did then, was
19:55
Speaker 3: he pulled back into a defensive position at the city
19:58
Speaker 3: of pou Young, and he diverted the Yellow River to
20:02
Speaker 3: create another moat around the city and made the city
20:05
Speaker 3: I impregnable. And then he waited until Chang Nyang got complacent,
20:12
Speaker 3: and then once he got resupply and reinforcement from the
20:17
Speaker 3: Chain Imperial Cord, he attacked and defeated Shang Yang. So
20:22
Speaker 3: he's trying to replicate his past success. He's waiting for
20:26
Speaker 3: the two forces to run out the supplies or to
20:30
Speaker 3: to to weaken and and to make a mistake so
20:33
Speaker 3: he can exploit the uh uh uh uh uh you know,
20:39
Speaker 3: the true weakness. He's waiting for for his chance. But
20:42
Speaker 3: this requires this requires to get reinforcement and resupply, right
20:49
Speaker 3: and like uh so so so SOMEHD has been sending
20:53
Speaker 3: letters back to the Chin Cord asking for reinforcement and resupply.
20:59
Speaker 5: Uh.
21:00
Speaker 3: But the Chin court has different you know, has different
21:05
Speaker 3: ideas because at this time another two forces was approaching
21:11
Speaker 3: the Qin capital. This is the forces of the Obang.
21:15
Speaker 3: So as people recall, the King of Chu, he sent
21:19
Speaker 3: out two forces, the main force of fifty thousand men
21:22
Speaker 3: under Sony and Shang to go north to rescue the
21:26
Speaker 3: Tzao state. And then he sent the Ubang with a
21:29
Speaker 3: few thousand men with a promise of whoever puncture into
21:33
Speaker 3: the qinharl and overthrow the Qing dynasty will be made
21:37
Speaker 3: the king of Qing. Right, So that was a mission
21:40
Speaker 3: that the Obam was given. But Niubank didn't set out
21:45
Speaker 3: immediately to the west because he only have a few
21:49
Speaker 3: thousand men. What he did was actually he shadowed the
21:54
Speaker 3: main forces of two of Sony. He acted as like
21:58
Speaker 3: the wing of the to make he actually moved north.
22:01
Speaker 3: So the Ubum left his main base the city of Funk.
22:05
Speaker 3: And this after he took the city after many unsuccessful
22:10
Speaker 3: tries from the guy who betrayed him. So now he's
22:14
Speaker 3: he handed over the defense of Fun to his old friend.
22:18
Speaker 3: And then then then ow is a guy who rescued
22:22
Speaker 3: Ubun's wife on sexual assault in the jail of uh
22:26
Speaker 3: of pay. So, so then I was pointed as a
22:29
Speaker 3: new governor of Fun to defend the play the parent
22:32
Speaker 3: to one of his other friends, I can't remember the name.
22:35
Speaker 3: Now he will come back to me another friend of
22:38
Speaker 3: his to take care of his wife and family. Now
22:42
Speaker 3: this friend will take care of his wife and family
22:46
Speaker 3: very well, because in the course of the next few years,
22:49
Speaker 3: while the open was away, there's they he probably became
22:54
Speaker 3: lover with the Obum's wife, you know, because later when
22:59
Speaker 3: the obounce I became the Impress and and and how
23:03
Speaker 3: Impress dowager and how all the power this this this
23:07
Speaker 3: guy her lover would became her right handed man. Now
23:11
Speaker 3: left left with troops. First marched north, you know, because
23:15
Speaker 3: he doesn't have too many troops of his own to
23:18
Speaker 3: to march on the Chin capital. So he shadowed the
23:20
Speaker 3: main two forces of Sony and then he met so one.
23:24
Speaker 3: One thing that Uban was doing is he was also
23:27
Speaker 3: gathering uh the people from the soldiers that were scattered
23:34
Speaker 3: from like the old followers of Tensen and Shangyan, because
23:38
Speaker 3: you know, he he's only had few thousand men. He
23:41
Speaker 3: can get as many men as he needs. So he
23:43
Speaker 3: started gathering the the the forces, the previous forces of
23:49
Speaker 3: Tensen and Shangyan that were scattered by earlier uh in victory,
23:55
Speaker 3: and he marched to uh Dong Dong was Duban's feet
24:00
Speaker 3: that was given to him by the King of two
24:03
Speaker 3: and and at this point he met with the Chin
24:09
Speaker 3: forces under the Chin general Wangbi. So this was before
24:13
Speaker 3: the Battle of Julu And and this is probably not
24:15
Speaker 3: Wanglei's main forces. This is probably a portion of Wangli's
24:19
Speaker 3: forces that was sent to reinforce the Lo coaching garrisons
24:23
Speaker 3: that was under attacked by the Obang uh And according
24:26
Speaker 3: to the record of his record of Grand Historian, the
24:31
Speaker 3: Ubang's forces decisively defeated the small forces of Wangbi. And
24:38
Speaker 3: then he continued to march north and he met a
24:44
Speaker 3: local rebel leader named Pongyui. Now Pongue is a guy
24:49
Speaker 3: who used to be a fisherman, and he's he he
24:55
Speaker 3: used to be a fisherman. And because you know, during
24:59
Speaker 3: the late in dynasty, the Uh you know, social order
25:04
Speaker 3: was breaking down, so Panuya joined the joined up with
25:08
Speaker 3: the local bandits. And when Tensen and shang the Young
25:12
Speaker 3: Star rebellion. The local youth came to Pangyuya and said, hey,
25:17
Speaker 3: like now, now everybody have rose up. All the prominent
25:21
Speaker 3: leaders are now declaring themselves to rebel against the ten.
25:25
Speaker 3: You can come forward as well and follow their example.
25:28
Speaker 3: We will follow you. But Panua told them, well, right
25:32
Speaker 3: now we have a situation where two dragons are fighting.
25:36
Speaker 3: I'd rather wait and see. Now, after more than a
25:40
Speaker 3: year over, several hundred young men from the from the
25:44
Speaker 3: marsh now gathered together again went to Pangua and say,
25:49
Speaker 3: you know, please please be our leader. And Panua again refused.
25:54
Speaker 3: You know, I don't wish to associate with your lots,
25:57
Speaker 3: but the young men insisted. So finally you agree. But
26:02
Speaker 3: he set out he set out a meeting time for
26:04
Speaker 3: next morning at sunrise. But he set out the rule.
26:08
Speaker 3: He said, anyone who was late will be executed. And
26:13
Speaker 3: but on the next day at the sun rise, you know,
26:17
Speaker 3: only few people were showing up. You know, several tens
26:21
Speaker 3: of people were late, and the last one to rite
26:24
Speaker 3: arrive actually arrived at new So at this point you said, look,
26:30
Speaker 3: I'm an old man. You know, you guys all insisted
26:34
Speaker 3: to make me your leader. Now that now you have.
26:38
Speaker 3: If I'm good, were to be a leader, you have
26:41
Speaker 3: to follow my rules. I already told you what the
26:44
Speaker 3: rules are, but you know that you should not be late,
26:47
Speaker 3: and the late one will be executed. Now many of
26:51
Speaker 3: you are late for the point of time, I cannot
26:53
Speaker 3: execute you all, so I will just execute the last
26:57
Speaker 3: one to come. And so he ordered the commander to
27:01
Speaker 3: behead the last guy who came around noon. You know,
27:04
Speaker 3: like all the all the young men were still like
27:07
Speaker 3: not taking it seriously. It was joking, so they all
27:10
Speaker 3: still laugh. He said, you know how how strict can
27:13
Speaker 3: can can you get? You know, we we We're sorry,
27:17
Speaker 3: we promised will not be laid again. But Pungya did
27:20
Speaker 3: not listen. And he ordered that last man who came
27:23
Speaker 3: and knew executed, and he built an alter for sacrifice,
27:27
Speaker 3: and he addressed his followers and and all the and
27:31
Speaker 3: all the young men were startled. And from from now
27:35
Speaker 3: they they fear Punyua so much. And now there to
27:39
Speaker 3: you know, even look at him, and and and from
27:42
Speaker 3: from that point pungy organized these these young fellows, and
27:46
Speaker 3: he began to seize territory and recruited scattered soldiers from
27:53
Speaker 3: uh you know, from defeated forces of tens and and
27:57
Speaker 3: and shut and he gathered more than a thousand men.
28:01
Speaker 3: And when the Ubang came up north he Uh he
28:06
Speaker 3: met up with Pungu and Uh. The two of them
28:10
Speaker 3: together attacked the Chin city at Tangi, but they couldn't
28:14
Speaker 3: take it, and so so the then Ubang returned back
28:22
Speaker 3: back to his base. And this is time Ubang met
28:26
Speaker 3: with another rebel leader, Tai. Now he cooperated with Highwood earlier,
28:34
Speaker 3: but now you know, he needs people. So he's somehow
28:38
Speaker 3: was able to convince Haiwoo to join him. And then
28:42
Speaker 3: the Ubang getting another four thousand men and and together
28:47
Speaker 3: with Uh with the forces away state Way General Huang Shing,
28:54
Speaker 3: they attacked to the city of Tangi again again he
28:59
Speaker 3: could not take it. Now, by the way, the Ubang
29:02
Speaker 3: wasn't the only force that was sent out by the
29:05
Speaker 3: true king to attack the Chin position.
29:08
Speaker 4: Uh.
29:08
Speaker 3: You know, back when Hiang Yang was still alive, Uh Zangiang,
29:13
Speaker 3: the Ubang's friend, had said to Shang Yang, like, now
29:17
Speaker 3: you have appointed a king, a new king of two Uh.
29:21
Speaker 3: Now all the other five states have been restored except
29:24
Speaker 3: for the Han state. I know a descendant of the
29:28
Speaker 3: Han royal lineage, Please give us a thousand men and
29:32
Speaker 3: we will go restore the state of Han, and then
29:36
Speaker 3: you will gain a valuable ally. So hiang Yang agreed
29:40
Speaker 3: and gave sang Yang a thousand men, and Zangyang and
29:43
Speaker 3: this new king of Han went to the old Han
29:46
Speaker 3: territory tried to restore the city a Han, but they
29:49
Speaker 3: were after capturing several dozen cities, they were defeated by
29:54
Speaker 3: the Chain forces. So they became start carrying out grolla
29:58
Speaker 3: warfare in the old Han terror tory. And similarly in
30:02
Speaker 3: the Way State. When the Way State was vanquished by
30:06
Speaker 3: Zanghan and the Way King was forced to commit suicide,
30:09
Speaker 3: the Way King's younger brother Waybau went to the court
30:13
Speaker 3: of Chu and asked for a few thousand men from
30:17
Speaker 3: the King of Chu to restore the waste state. So
30:21
Speaker 3: he was given that force. And he's uh and and
30:25
Speaker 3: this is why the Ubang collaborated with the forces away
30:28
Speaker 3: to to take Tangi. But again, you know the Ubang,
30:32
Speaker 3: you know he has a his record of taking forty
30:36
Speaker 3: five cities, not that great right, and he tried to
30:39
Speaker 3: take his own headquarters Fungi back from his old buddy
30:43
Speaker 3: youngs and and he was only able to succeed after
30:47
Speaker 3: three tries. So this time he still wasn't able to.
30:50
Speaker 1: This past record of successes. His past record of successes
30:53
Speaker 1: depends on he decided to.
30:55
Speaker 3: Go go go west, so I brought around this time,
31:01
Speaker 3: Uh Sony has been executed by Shiang Yang Changi and
31:06
Speaker 3: Hiangi has led the forces the two forces north to
31:11
Speaker 3: to attack the Qing Army at Jiu Ubang decided, you know,
31:16
Speaker 3: let me just attacking a different direction. So it's now
31:18
Speaker 3: he attacked attacked west to Gao Yang. Here in Gao Yang,
31:22
Speaker 3: he will meet one of his uh most important advisors
31:28
Speaker 3: by the name of Liji. Now, Liji is a He's
31:34
Speaker 3: a local native of of of Gao Yang. He loved
31:38
Speaker 3: reading books, but his family was poor and destitute and
31:43
Speaker 3: he has no mean of supporting himself with with clothing
31:47
Speaker 3: or food. So and so his friends, you know, found
31:52
Speaker 3: him a job to work as a gate keeper, uh,
31:56
Speaker 3: you know, like the gatekeeper of the warring states period.
31:59
Speaker 3: You know, they're all like they're all like have some
32:03
Speaker 3: special talent. You know, they're all these like hermit with
32:06
Speaker 3: special talents. But anyway, so, so he's he's he he
32:15
Speaker 3: worked as a gatekeeper for a while, and the however,
32:21
Speaker 3: the virtuous and influential people in the county, they're not
32:24
Speaker 3: conscript him into uh his service because he's very he's
32:30
Speaker 3: very arrogant. He looked down on people, and people call
32:35
Speaker 3: him up. Matt skalder Li continue his employment as a
32:39
Speaker 3: gatekeeper for a long time, you know, until the rebellion
32:45
Speaker 3: broke out. By this time, lig is already sixty sixty
32:48
Speaker 3: years old. So you know, last episode you said, oh, Son,
32:53
Speaker 3: he was a Warring States boomer. I have to remind
32:56
Speaker 3: people at this point pretty much everyone is a war
33:00
Speaker 3: eight boomer, like like Niobama himself is a Warren State boomer.
33:05
Speaker 3: Now he's like forty nine. At this point, only only
33:10
Speaker 3: one who is not a warring State boomer is Shang
33:12
Speaker 3: because Shangu was only nine years old when his grandfather
33:16
Speaker 3: was killed uh and the two state was vanquished. And
33:20
Speaker 3: also the the Qin emperor Huhai because Hu Huai was
33:26
Speaker 3: also a kid when Chin first unified uh uh uh
33:31
Speaker 3: unified China. So so only Huai and Shangu are exception.
33:36
Speaker 3: All the rest of them all hold over from the
33:39
Speaker 3: Warring States period. But anyway, so so Lee Lie said,
33:42
Speaker 3: waited until the rebellion broke out, But you know he
33:47
Speaker 3: he still waited to uh. There's several several tens of
33:54
Speaker 3: rebel leaders have passed through Gao Yang while season territory.
33:59
Speaker 3: But but Liji, you know, study them carefully and and
34:04
Speaker 3: and he realized these commanders are petty minded. They're founded
34:08
Speaker 3: strict rules, but they're unable to accept uh. Now they're
34:13
Speaker 3: unable to accept grand strategy. So Ligi decided to conceal
34:18
Speaker 3: himself as the gatekeeper. So when finally he hears that
34:22
Speaker 3: the Ubang is leading the troops to campaign the outskirts
34:26
Speaker 3: of the city, sendeo again. A calvary man under the
34:33
Speaker 3: Ubang happened to be Ligi's fellow tongues person. So so
34:39
Speaker 3: li Iji went to see his fellow tonguesperson's cavalry man
34:43
Speaker 3: and and uh. And this is also the time when
34:47
Speaker 3: the Ubang is recruiting, right, He's trying to recruit the
34:50
Speaker 3: local prominent uh uh notables. And li Ichi went to
34:55
Speaker 3: see uh his see his old acquaintance now serving as
34:59
Speaker 3: a cavalryman under under the Ubang. And he said, he said,
35:06
Speaker 3: you know, I I heard I heard that Dubang is
35:13
Speaker 3: rude and disrespectful. Yet he is uh. He likes to
35:20
Speaker 3: associate himself with talented people and he is uh. You know,
35:25
Speaker 3: he has grand combition and and and and full of
35:29
Speaker 3: grand strategy. I would like to join him, you know,
35:34
Speaker 3: why why don't you introduce me? And you know we
35:38
Speaker 3: what but the but the calvary man said, look, you
35:42
Speaker 3: don't understand my lord, uh, my our lord of pay.
35:49
Speaker 3: You know that's the title of the bank. He's a
35:51
Speaker 3: lord of pay. He does not like confusion scholars. You know.
35:55
Speaker 3: Many times there was one time there's a confusion scholar
35:59
Speaker 3: came to see him, you know, dressed in the confusion robe.
36:03
Speaker 3: The Lord of Paid took took off his confusion cap
36:08
Speaker 3: and p inside, you know. And this is how he
36:12
Speaker 3: treats confusion scholars. And he often you know, curs out
36:17
Speaker 3: the confusion scholars. Said they're they're they're useless, and said,
36:23
Speaker 3: don't worry, don't worry. You just go tell him that
36:28
Speaker 3: I know of a person called Leg and he's sixty
36:32
Speaker 3: years old and his bots Paul Bots. The bots is
36:38
Speaker 3: about in the Han dynasty. Measurement is about one hundred
36:43
Speaker 3: eighty four centimeters and Shang is about over bots. So
36:50
Speaker 3: last time I said, Shan he is six y four,
36:51
Speaker 3: so I was wrong. His six' one, his six one
36:55
Speaker 3: the sixty one is like one hundred eighty five centimeters right, yeah,
36:58
Speaker 3: And and according to much and Shangu is taller than bots,
37:03
Speaker 3: taller than one hundred eighty four. So Shangu is probably
37:06
Speaker 3: six to one. So apparently is also a tall guy.
37:11
Speaker 3: He's almost six one. He's he's one eighties four and
37:15
Speaker 3: and uh but he's he's old and and he just
37:17
Speaker 3: tells the his his fellow tongues person, go tell your
37:22
Speaker 3: lord said, uh Gi is known as a mad scholar,
37:27
Speaker 3: but she does not consider himself a mad scholar.
37:32
Speaker 5: So so and uh and then then the the calvary
37:38
Speaker 5: man went to tell the Ubang what the what have said?
37:43
Speaker 3: So then summoned uh Nuban then summoned the I to
37:49
Speaker 3: see him. And when when I went to the Ubun's camp,
37:54
Speaker 3: he saw that Ubang was sitting in the bed with
37:57
Speaker 3: two beautiful women watching his feet. Mm hmm, because Nilbuk
38:03
Speaker 3: that kind of first Nilbunk is he doesn't really care
38:05
Speaker 3: about etiquette, right and uh and he probably also didn't
38:10
Speaker 3: they know who the eg is, so he didn't really
38:13
Speaker 3: respect him. So when the EG sees this and he asked,
38:18
Speaker 3: he says, now, there are many who rebel, rebel against
38:22
Speaker 3: the Chin state. I have come to see I have
38:28
Speaker 3: to I have come to see the UH. I have
38:34
Speaker 3: to come to see you to to find out your intention?
38:37
Speaker 3: Is there your Is there your intention too to ally
38:42
Speaker 3: yourself with the Chain state to suppress all the rebel leaders?
38:47
Speaker 3: Or is your attention to ally with all the rebel
38:50
Speaker 3: leaders to overthrow the Chain? Now, when the Obau heard
38:54
Speaker 3: about this, he jump off the bed and start cursing,
38:58
Speaker 3: you fullish scolar. What the heck are you? What you're
39:01
Speaker 3: talking about? You know we have been suffering under the
39:04
Speaker 3: Chin rule for so long that that is why we
39:07
Speaker 3: have all, you know, put our life on the line
39:09
Speaker 3: rebelling against the Chain dynasty. How dare you talking about
39:14
Speaker 3: UH ally with the Gin and suppressing the rebellion. And
39:20
Speaker 3: then EG proceed to say, well, yeah, okay, I see that.
39:26
Speaker 3: If that's your intention, why are you acting in such
39:30
Speaker 3: a rude and disrespectful manner to someone to to to
39:35
Speaker 3: to a person of talent who come to help you.
39:38
Speaker 3: And then the Obama immediately realized the error of his way,
39:42
Speaker 3: so he corrected himself, you know, he sent send the
39:45
Speaker 3: women away dressed properly, and how the audience with d
39:49
Speaker 3: e g and then start to tell him stories about
39:53
Speaker 3: the war and states period. And these are kind of
39:55
Speaker 3: the story like catneps to to the Ubang, you know,
39:58
Speaker 3: because Nuban grew up is the story of his idol,
40:02
Speaker 3: Lord Shindy. Right, and so they had a long talk
40:06
Speaker 3: and then the Upum finally says, okay, so so uh
40:10
Speaker 3: you know, sir, what what do you think of our
40:14
Speaker 3: present situation? How can you help me? You know? Please?
40:18
Speaker 3: What should I do? And you told him, look right now,
40:24
Speaker 3: you are your your man is less than ten thousand
40:28
Speaker 3: To lead such a force to attack the court in heartland,
40:32
Speaker 3: it's like you leading a flock of sheep to feed
40:36
Speaker 3: the tiger. What instead, what you should do right now?
40:41
Speaker 3: You should expand your forces and the locals the nearby
40:46
Speaker 3: city of Tendio. I know nearby city of Tennio is
40:50
Speaker 3: has a large granary and and has a large large
40:54
Speaker 3: weapon arsenal. If you can take ten Neil, you know,
40:58
Speaker 3: you can use a ground henery and the weapons that's
41:01
Speaker 3: stored there and recrup more men to to to fortify
41:06
Speaker 3: your forces. And it just so happens that I am
41:10
Speaker 3: my old acquaintance with the Qing governor at Tenniel. So
41:15
Speaker 3: allow me to go to Tennil and to persuade him
41:19
Speaker 3: to surrender. If he does surrender, then great, uh, you know,
41:23
Speaker 3: you you you just gain a new base. If he
41:26
Speaker 3: doesn't surrender, then I can stay behind inside the city
41:30
Speaker 3: to act as your spy to help you to take
41:33
Speaker 3: the city. And of course it's great. Immediately send the uh,
41:40
Speaker 3: he has his own voy inside the city of Tennil
41:43
Speaker 3: to ask the Chin commander to surrender. Now, the Chin
41:47
Speaker 3: commander he's he's afraid. Uh, he's like a cautious person,
41:53
Speaker 3: and he's more afraid of the strict law of the
41:57
Speaker 3: Chin dynasty. So he he does not want to surrender.
42:01
Speaker 3: And but he didn't send e g away because is
42:05
Speaker 3: his old acquaintance. So so you settled down inside the city,
42:09
Speaker 3: you know. And then he waited until at night he
42:13
Speaker 3: snuck into the chamber of his old acquaintance. The governor
42:18
Speaker 3: cut off his head and snuck out the city to
42:21
Speaker 3: to see the oubang. And then the obank mounted the
42:24
Speaker 3: head of the Chin commander on the Paul. Paul marched
42:29
Speaker 3: his army to the gate, say, look, this is this
42:32
Speaker 3: is what happens to people who resist me. Now, if
42:35
Speaker 3: you open up the gate, I will you know, I will,
42:38
Speaker 3: I will everything, I will let every I will forgive everyone.
42:44
Speaker 3: But if you resist, I'm gonna massacre the whole city.
42:47
Speaker 3: So with that threat every one inside the city they
42:51
Speaker 3: opened the gate and the obank gained UH the control
42:54
Speaker 3: of Tannio, where he gained a large granary and and
42:57
Speaker 3: and access to a lot of a lot of weapons.
43:00
Speaker 3: And then he said, as Ligi advised, he said down
43:04
Speaker 3: to recruit a few more thousands of men. So by
43:08
Speaker 3: now he's uh his number finally while over ten thousand
43:15
Speaker 3: now the Ubunks start to march further west. Also recommend
43:22
Speaker 3: so he's he in as a lord of Guangxi and
43:29
Speaker 3: also introduced his brother Lie Sung to the Ubam. So
43:32
Speaker 3: the Song apparently is also another independent rebel leader have
43:37
Speaker 3: a few thousand troops under him. So the Song was
43:42
Speaker 3: made the new governor of Tendio and to order to
43:48
Speaker 3: help attack the city of Kaifong. Now Kaifong is the
43:52
Speaker 3: old capital of Way State. Kiphoon later will be the
43:58
Speaker 3: more famous as the capital Song dynasty. But Kaifung is
44:02
Speaker 3: a big city and is well defended. And again the
44:06
Speaker 3: Oban doesn't have good records of attacking fortified cities, so
44:10
Speaker 3: he couldn't take take Kaifong. But at this point, the
44:15
Speaker 3: Qing General Yang Shung led the Chin forces to to
44:20
Speaker 3: to reinforce Kai Shun u Kaifong, and the obams men
44:25
Speaker 3: met with Uh with the Chin forces and decisively defeat
44:30
Speaker 3: Yang Shun twice. So Yang Shung had to uh rang
44:34
Speaker 3: away west to the big Chin granary location at shin Yang.
44:41
Speaker 3: Now this this force of defeat travel back to the
44:45
Speaker 3: Imperial court UH. Either the imper Huhai or the tau
44:51
Speaker 3: Gau who's really calling the shots at the time, sent
44:55
Speaker 3: the command to have Yang Shung executed for his defeat
44:59
Speaker 3: UH at the hands of the Ubang. Now this this
45:02
Speaker 3: will have severe consequences because that news will travel to
45:08
Speaker 3: the army camp of Zanghan, who is now currently a
45:12
Speaker 3: standstill with with a face off against shang Yu, you know,
45:17
Speaker 3: with two hundred thousand men on each side, and now
45:20
Speaker 3: they hear that the Ubang is attacking in the rear,
45:23
Speaker 3: and the Qin General Yang Hung, who got defeated by
45:28
Speaker 3: the Ubang was executed for the defeat. This will cast
45:33
Speaker 3: a shadow over the minds of Qing commander Zanghan, which
45:39
Speaker 3: was with consequences later, so and and and the Ubang
45:43
Speaker 3: at this point he because he couldn't take uh Kaifung
45:47
Speaker 3: he he he took He's then he uh start to
45:52
Speaker 3: attack nearby city of yin Yang. This time he took
45:55
Speaker 3: the yin Yang and and the Ubang massacred the city. Supposedly,
46:00
Speaker 3: Jubang was appointed as a guy to go west to
46:04
Speaker 3: attack the chain state because his supposed benevolence because compared
46:10
Speaker 3: to Shaunu, who's like to sack cities, but here we
46:15
Speaker 3: have a record of the Ubang actually sacking a city
46:17
Speaker 3: and massacreing population. So actually so you so, maybe that
46:22
Speaker 3: that the whole benevolence about the Ubang is why he
46:25
Speaker 3: was tasked by the King of two to go west.
46:28
Speaker 3: Maybe that was later Han dynasty papaganda was added later
46:32
Speaker 3: because up to this time the Ubang was behaving no
46:35
Speaker 3: different than showing you he was massacring cities, and he
46:39
Speaker 3: was massacring city in this case as a terror tactic,
46:43
Speaker 3: you know, to show people this is what happened. If
46:45
Speaker 3: you resist me, I'm gonna if you. If you surrender,
46:50
Speaker 3: you know, you get to keep your title. But if
46:53
Speaker 3: you resist me, I'm going to massacre your whole population.
46:58
Speaker 3: And then the Oubam met up with his old friend
47:00
Speaker 3: Zang Liang. So as I mentioned, Zangjang has assisted the
47:04
Speaker 3: King of Han tried to go ahead.
47:05
Speaker 1: Of him to record that they see his When he
47:08
Speaker 1: went to see Leo Ban the first time, like his
47:12
Speaker 1: younger brother is already known as a kind.
47:14
Speaker 2: Of local notable or like rebel reader.
47:17
Speaker 1: Right, this is that might be what the whole reason
47:20
Speaker 1: why Leo Ban chose to see him.
47:22
Speaker 3: It's just it's.
47:23
Speaker 1: Just because he that's the important person he's recruiting. And
47:26
Speaker 1: you know the fact he's got a brother who you know,
47:29
Speaker 1: fancies himself intellectual. Maybe it's worth something, right, Maybe he's
47:33
Speaker 1: a confusion good for nothing. But maybe but he Lebon
47:36
Speaker 1: has had has recruited some smart intellectual people already, so
47:40
Speaker 1: you know he is he's open to the possibility. But
47:44
Speaker 1: I guess maybe perhaps he does not have too much.
47:47
Speaker 1: He doesn't want to bother, you know, like make too much.
47:51
Speaker 1: He wants the other person to make the effort. I guess,
47:54
Speaker 1: so he decides to meetly see you like in this yeah,
47:59
Speaker 1: with the in a kind of you know, very informal setting.
48:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean like you're priory right, you know.
48:11
Speaker 3: Initially he thought he probably just wanted to recruit Lichi's
48:15
Speaker 3: brothers through li Ichi. He didn't realize each his own
48:18
Speaker 3: value inherent value. But anyway, so so so now Uh,
48:24
Speaker 3: the Ubam met with his old friend Zangian because Zang
48:26
Speaker 3: Yong has been uh fighting a groll award trying to
48:30
Speaker 3: restore the Han state with the King of Han. And
48:34
Speaker 3: and now uh they with the help of Zangian, the
48:40
Speaker 3: Ubang was able to to uh take some former city
48:46
Speaker 3: of the Han and hand it over to the King
48:48
Speaker 3: of Han. Uh And now the news came to the
48:52
Speaker 3: Ubag that Shang We defeated Wangdi at Rilu and moreover,
48:59
Speaker 3: Shang you had and the Tsau general Suma to cut
49:02
Speaker 3: off somehims retreat. But Simaang's forces now is just north
49:10
Speaker 3: of the Yellow River about to cross a Yellow river
49:14
Speaker 3: into the Laoa Yang basin, Luoyang being the old capital
49:18
Speaker 3: of the Zhou dynasty. Right, Luoyang sits at the critical
49:23
Speaker 3: juncture on the pathway to the chinhar land right, and
49:27
Speaker 3: and and the Opa is not gonna let anyone to
49:31
Speaker 3: get inside the chin Haar land before him, because he
49:34
Speaker 3: remembered the promise of King of two whoever goes into
49:38
Speaker 3: the Chinhar land over to the Qin dynasty will be
49:41
Speaker 3: made king of Chin And he's not gonna allow this
49:45
Speaker 3: Sau general Suma to take his glory. So he immediately
49:50
Speaker 3: marched with his army to take the river crossing on
49:53
Speaker 3: the Yellow River to pre prevent the Tao army from
49:56
Speaker 3: crossing down into the Laoayan basin because he intended to
50:00
Speaker 3: take lawy Young for himself. And and then Yubug proceeded
50:05
Speaker 3: to attack lay Young. Uh well again, uh, the Obang
50:10
Speaker 3: is not very good at taking fortified cities. He couldn't
50:14
Speaker 3: he couldn't take it.
50:15
Speaker 2: Uh.
50:15
Speaker 3: In fact, he was. He was decisively defeated. And so
50:19
Speaker 3: he he real.
50:20
Speaker 1: Kind of reliance on the having some kind of fifth
50:25
Speaker 1: column inside to like kill off the commander under you know,
50:30
Speaker 1: treacherous circumstances and open the gates. But that's actually pretty common,
50:35
Speaker 1: and like this is why sieges are kind of avoided
50:37
Speaker 1: if possible, or they they or they drag on like
50:41
Speaker 1: you know, for ages, and they you know, take significant
50:45
Speaker 1: toll in terms of disease and whatnot on the besieging army. Right,
50:50
Speaker 1: so it's kind of normal heavy difficulty Uban.
50:54
Speaker 3: Now he installed the King of Han, you know, on
50:57
Speaker 3: the few cities that he captured, but he kept Zangian
51:00
Speaker 3: with him this time important. So now Zangiang told him, look,
51:07
Speaker 3: the way west is going to be heavily defended by
51:11
Speaker 3: the Chin troops because that's a gateway to the chinhar land.
51:16
Speaker 3: You know, so your experience show at the defeat at Luayang.
51:19
Speaker 3: It's too strongly defended. Let's try another way. Let's try
51:22
Speaker 3: a backdoor. Because at the land of Chin is known
51:27
Speaker 3: as one zone, the land within the passes. There were
51:31
Speaker 3: four major passes that guards approach to the state of
51:34
Speaker 3: Chin and the passes from the east to west. There's
51:37
Speaker 3: two main passes. One is the famous Hang one, the
51:40
Speaker 3: Hang Path. That's that's where uh the obounce Idol bor
51:46
Speaker 3: Shindin have tried twice unsuccessfully try to break in, right.
51:51
Speaker 3: And there's another pass one the Woo pass that lead
51:56
Speaker 3: from land of Chin into the fuller land of two.
52:02
Speaker 3: You know, that is the corridor that Chu and Chin
52:05
Speaker 3: forces used to clash so you have, but that whirres
52:09
Speaker 3: you to go through the former to hard land of
52:11
Speaker 3: nine Young Basin. So that's what you advised. So Duban
52:17
Speaker 3: now turned his forces southward into nine Young nine Young Basin.
52:23
Speaker 3: Now he met with Uh, the commander of Chin nine
52:28
Speaker 3: Young Commandery. Uh. They they fought and he defeated the
52:34
Speaker 3: So so Ubang is okay defeating the Qin army in
52:38
Speaker 3: the field. He just had problems taking fortified cities, so
52:41
Speaker 3: he copedd the the governor of the Qin nine Young Commandery,
52:46
Speaker 3: and the governor escaped to the capital of nine Young one,
52:51
Speaker 3: the city of One, and Yubang tried to take one again.
52:56
Speaker 3: He doesn't have much luck taking fortified cities, so he
53:00
Speaker 3: wanted to skip one and then keep on marching to
53:04
Speaker 3: west to the past of to to to Chin Hartland.
53:08
Speaker 3: And Zangiang at this point advised him, so like this
53:12
Speaker 3: will put you into a very dangerous situation. Let's say,
53:15
Speaker 3: if you couldn't take the pass, and the Chin army
53:19
Speaker 3: behind you in the in the in the one city
53:22
Speaker 3: come out and attack you in the rear, then we
53:24
Speaker 3: will be caught between rock and hard place. This was
53:28
Speaker 3: actually what happened to the former general of Tensen, song Yo,
53:32
Speaker 3: who took the same route. You know, he first went
53:35
Speaker 3: into a nine Young basin, but except song Yo capture
53:38
Speaker 3: nine Young first. But when the news of Tensen's defeat
53:44
Speaker 3: come through, Daan Young betrayed him, you know, defected back
53:48
Speaker 3: to the Chin States. So soon you had to surrender
53:51
Speaker 3: to the Chin forces. So now this time the Ubung
53:57
Speaker 3: lesson to zang Yang. He he's double but immediately double
54:01
Speaker 3: back and he he you know, he did a very
54:04
Speaker 3: quiet march back to the One City. So when the
54:08
Speaker 3: One City defender woke up in the morning, find themselves
54:11
Speaker 3: surrounded by the Bunks forces, and the commander of Chin
54:18
Speaker 3: nine Young commander wanted to commit suicide. You know, he
54:21
Speaker 3: saw this, the city being surrounded. You know, first he
54:25
Speaker 3: was already defeated once. Now he's been surrounded, you know,
54:28
Speaker 3: he he he wanted to commit suicide. And but he's
54:32
Speaker 3: one of his retainers said, look, look, well we're not
54:36
Speaker 3: at that situation yet. Let me maybe I can still,
54:40
Speaker 3: let me help to salvage the situation. You know, we're
54:43
Speaker 3: not at the time. It's not time to die yet.
54:46
Speaker 3: Allow me to act as your own boy. To the
54:50
Speaker 3: Ubuns camp and argue your cases for you, and and
54:57
Speaker 3: went to uh Du bounce camp and said, look, you know,
55:02
Speaker 3: right now, the city of One is the capital of
55:05
Speaker 3: the non Young Commandery. It has a lot of grain
55:10
Speaker 3: inside the city. It's you know, the walls are very strong.
55:15
Speaker 3: And on top of that, it has satellited cities. It
55:19
Speaker 3: doesn't satellite city all around it. You. It's going to
55:22
Speaker 3: take you a lot of time and a lot of
55:25
Speaker 3: blood to try to reduce all these fortresses one by one,
55:29
Speaker 3: after which you won't have much men left to march
55:32
Speaker 3: on the Qin capital. Right now, your main go I
55:35
Speaker 3: know what your main goal is. Your main go is
55:38
Speaker 3: because the promise of King of two who said whoever
55:41
Speaker 3: made into the land of Qing will be made king
55:45
Speaker 3: of Qing. That's what you want to do.
55:46
Speaker 2: That proclamation has become kind of public knowledge. I take it.
55:49
Speaker 3: It's been like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, everybody
55:52
Speaker 3: knows this. And he said, but that is your goals.
55:56
Speaker 3: If you dalley valley here and wasting your forces, that's
55:59
Speaker 3: the distraction from your go and and the one reason
56:04
Speaker 3: why all these cities are restricting you so strongly because
56:08
Speaker 3: you have been massacring cities wherever you go, so everybody
56:13
Speaker 3: have an incentive to defend to the death. Now let's
56:18
Speaker 3: let's say, what if you try a different approach. What
56:22
Speaker 3: if you offer the terms to the city and offer
56:27
Speaker 3: the defender the governor of nine Young title and land,
56:32
Speaker 3: offer him for him to join you, and you grant
56:36
Speaker 3: him a title and land. And when that work start
56:39
Speaker 3: to spread, you know that this example, everybody knew that
56:43
Speaker 3: surrendering to you it will mean securing their own position.
56:47
Speaker 3: People will be more likely to surrender to you than
56:50
Speaker 3: having you to require to take every single city by
56:53
Speaker 3: a hard siege. And the Ball, of course was static
56:57
Speaker 3: to hear this, and he immediately sent Tenway back and
57:03
Speaker 3: a turn of peace was agreed. The commander of of
57:07
Speaker 3: Chin nine Young commandery was made a marquee, and ten
57:12
Speaker 3: Hui himself was made giving a thief of a thousand household.
57:18
Speaker 3: And the news did spread and many more cities start
57:21
Speaker 3: to surrender to the Oubank. So he's offering the same
57:27
Speaker 3: advice to the Obang as A as the Zau scholar
57:31
Speaker 3: Quiet Home was offering to the Tao king Wootshan before.
57:35
Speaker 3: It's like, except what wasn't even massacring city? W was
57:38
Speaker 3: just masking the Chin commanders. He said, like, look, because
57:42
Speaker 3: you're killing commanders, so they will have an incentive to resist.
57:45
Speaker 3: You see the death. What if you just offer them
57:47
Speaker 3: land and titles, then people will join you, and and
57:52
Speaker 3: and the Ubang of course, you know know his own
57:55
Speaker 3: record of taking fortified cities. He happily took the deal
58:01
Speaker 3: and this allowed him to quickly control the Nine Young
58:05
Speaker 3: Basin and he started then to march toward the Qin capital.
58:12
Speaker 3: At this time, the news now travel to the Chin
58:19
Speaker 3: court that the new Bounds army is approaching. So they're
58:22
Speaker 3: now sending emergency decree to the Chin commander Zanghan ask
58:28
Speaker 3: him to wrap up the battle with Hung, you know,
58:30
Speaker 3: quickly quickly fight Shong, you resolve the battle. We need
58:35
Speaker 3: your forces back to defend the Chin harland.
58:40
Speaker 1: But somehow there's no more corve labor to like conscript.
58:44
Speaker 2: I guess at this point.
58:45
Speaker 3: Right, yes, that's a problem. But Zhang want Chin to
58:48
Speaker 3: send reinforcement and supplies. But you know, Chin, right now,
58:54
Speaker 3: the labor in state the Chin has been exhausted. They
58:59
Speaker 3: have already said previously they were able to send reinforcement
59:03
Speaker 3: to Zanghan, but now they can there's no no more
59:07
Speaker 3: manpower in the state of Chain. So there's a fundamental
59:11
Speaker 3: conflict between the imperial decree and what some his go
59:15
Speaker 3: sometimes goal is get resplies or he can defeat Shang Yui,
59:20
Speaker 3: but the Chain's like no, no, no, you defeat Shangi
59:22
Speaker 3: first and then you come back and defend our heartland.
59:25
Speaker 2: Uh.
59:27
Speaker 3: And to resolve this issue, UH, some Hinds decide to
59:32
Speaker 3: send his trusted confidant smashing back to the Chin Imperial
59:37
Speaker 3: Core to uh for an audience with the import to
59:41
Speaker 3: explain the situation, to ask for reinforcement and lettle did
59:47
Speaker 3: he know this trip, this mission will result in the
59:53
Speaker 3: end of the Qin dynasty. And that's that's the story
59:56
Speaker 3: for the next time we come back next week. Any
59:58
Speaker 3: any comments question for for before we go?
1:00:04
Speaker 2: Mmmm, yeah, I guess.
1:00:05
Speaker 3: Uh.
1:00:06
Speaker 1: The just Lil Ban and Shanging before him, they would
1:00:11
Speaker 1: like burnen. They would massacre cities to try to inspire
1:00:15
Speaker 1: terror to get you know, other cities to surrender. But
1:00:17
Speaker 1: if you are if you do that and then you
1:00:21
Speaker 1: subsequently have difficulty taking more cities, taking the next city,
1:00:25
Speaker 1: kind the effect is kind of gone and you have
1:00:27
Speaker 1: you get the contrary effect where you know, they are
1:00:30
Speaker 1: now more dug in because they think, you know, they're
1:00:32
Speaker 1: all going to be dead if if if they let
1:00:38
Speaker 1: you in the I guess the story of that Chin
1:00:43
Speaker 1: commander who was killed by what's the thing again, Lee,
1:00:47
Speaker 1: it's the gi. It's quite a striking story because they
1:00:52
Speaker 1: were like friends almost or as far as we know,
1:00:56
Speaker 1: or close acquaintances. And so the guy you know, he
1:00:58
Speaker 1: invites him in like he refuses, it's off for what
1:01:01
Speaker 1: he doesn't like send him off. He thinks that I
1:01:03
Speaker 1: can still trust this guy and LEGI this old man
1:01:07
Speaker 1: who has like not done so much, she has spent
1:01:11
Speaker 1: like all his life being like mad. I guess that
1:01:14
Speaker 1: you know that the heaven hasn't favored him and he's
1:01:17
Speaker 1: been stuck doing this gatekeeper job. He you know, seizes
1:01:20
Speaker 1: the opportunity, kills his old friend or his old acquaintance
1:01:24
Speaker 1: and opens the gates. I guess the lesson is, in
1:01:27
Speaker 1: the chaotic times, you have to look at your when
1:01:32
Speaker 1: people are trying to get ask you for stuff based
1:01:36
Speaker 1: on the personal tighes and you say no, you have
1:01:39
Speaker 1: to consider, you know, what is their incentive right now?
1:01:42
Speaker 6: And are they going to just take the know right
1:01:47
Speaker 6: oh I can't. I can't go balling next weekend. Oh no,
1:01:50
Speaker 6: no problem. Are they going to take still take a
1:01:52
Speaker 6: ring check on that? I'm not so sure at this time, right.
1:01:56
Speaker 3: Send them away if you read them away, don't keep
1:02:00
Speaker 3: them close. Yeah. Yeah, But there's a lot of people
1:02:06
Speaker 3: like each like fun. Then is another guy who was
1:02:10
Speaker 3: even older, seventy years old, you know, who hasn't done
1:02:13
Speaker 3: much in his life, and suddenly at the end of
1:02:16
Speaker 3: Chin start to throwing his lot into the rebellion. So
1:02:21
Speaker 3: I guess, like maybe, I don't know, maybe the War
1:02:25
Speaker 3: in States period, these states just not able to take
1:02:28
Speaker 3: advantage of this talent. I guess, you know, for whatever reason,
1:02:32
Speaker 3: you know, because these people will play a big bro
1:02:35
Speaker 3: in the overthrow of Qing dynasty and the war afterwards.
1:02:39
Speaker 3: But they were all like nobody's during the or In
1:02:42
Speaker 3: States period.
1:02:43
Speaker 1: I guess they were in the we had they had
1:02:46
Speaker 1: in order for these uh anti Chin elements to make
1:02:51
Speaker 1: use of these people, we had to have the chain unification,
1:02:54
Speaker 1: have all of the former have a large part of
1:02:58
Speaker 1: the existing elites of this six states be wiped out first,
1:03:02
Speaker 1: right clear out all that dead would and now you
1:03:05
Speaker 1: all these guys have the opportunity.
1:03:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, that that that makes sense. And uh and and
1:03:11
Speaker 3: and and also uh you know the UPAM when he
1:03:15
Speaker 3: was sent out, I mean strategically, the king wise, the
1:03:21
Speaker 3: King of Jew's promise was very good. You know, he
1:03:24
Speaker 3: except that the right incentive for everybody to go, you know,
1:03:28
Speaker 3: overthrow the Ching dynasty. But initially when the UPAM was
1:03:32
Speaker 3: sent out, you know, his main role was a distraction
1:03:36
Speaker 3: for the two main forces, to create distraction for for
1:03:40
Speaker 3: for stated chain. But somehow he managed to turn into
1:03:44
Speaker 3: this distraction force to like a real u uh, a
1:03:48
Speaker 3: potent force, you know, numbers tenth of he managed to
1:03:53
Speaker 3: grow into like tens of thousands. That like, like what
1:03:56
Speaker 3: we said before we started the show, he's like the
1:03:58
Speaker 3: the the guy the RPG gate game. You know, he's
1:04:02
Speaker 3: he's going along to do all these side quests and
1:04:05
Speaker 3: like collecting the NPC companions, gaining experience, and then then
1:04:12
Speaker 3: at the suddenly, you know, he became like the level
1:04:15
Speaker 3: thirty six boss, you know. Like, uh, so that that
1:04:19
Speaker 3: would be the story of the OBAM. But now now
1:04:22
Speaker 3: we when we come back, we still have to resolve this. Uh,
1:04:26
Speaker 3: like by now will be a six month standoff between
1:04:31
Speaker 3: the Chin and the true army between Zanghan and the Shangi.
1:04:37
Speaker 3: Now Zunghan's forces is like literally the last hope of
1:04:41
Speaker 3: the Chin dynasty. You know, not all is lost yet
1:04:44
Speaker 3: at this point, because.
1:04:45
Speaker 1: Remember they're back to parity basically because initially in this war,
1:04:50
Speaker 1: the rebels overrun much of the former six states because
1:04:54
Speaker 1: the Chin armies are not present. And then the Chin
1:04:56
Speaker 1: armies rally and they're superior to all of the combined
1:05:01
Speaker 1: rebel forces and aided by the fact that the combined
1:05:04
Speaker 1: that the rebel forces are not that their unity is
1:05:07
Speaker 1: very brittle, and so once they start to lose this
1:05:10
Speaker 1: there is like this cascading effect. But now with the
1:05:14
Speaker 1: destruction of the army from the Great Wall, it's kind
1:05:17
Speaker 1: of they're like the the military forces are roughly equal.
1:05:22
Speaker 1: It's a matter of who is able to keep fighting
1:05:26
Speaker 1: under the circumstances. And Janghan he's like he's kind of
1:05:31
Speaker 1: cut off, but he's still sitting on a lot of supplies,
1:05:35
Speaker 1: and the shah Yi's armies are not in a great
1:05:38
Speaker 1: supply situation. But as we will see, Liobong is going
1:05:42
Speaker 1: to psychologically destabilize the Chin lead back in the capitol,
1:05:47
Speaker 1: and that will be Yeah, that will kind of spell
1:05:50
Speaker 1: the doom for Chanhan, well not for him personally. He
1:05:54
Speaker 1: actually makes out okay for a while, but all of
1:05:56
Speaker 1: his troops are going to not at a good time
1:05:59
Speaker 1: later on.
1:06:00
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah that that that is for for for for
1:06:04
Speaker 3: next time we come back. Any anything else, like anything
1:06:07
Speaker 3: like stuff that you were able to interrupt before that.
1:06:10
Speaker 2: You know, I think I think I've mentioned I've mentioned
1:06:12
Speaker 2: it all now since
1:06:13
Speaker 3: N okay, okay, all right, thanks everyone for listening until
1:06:17
Speaker 3: next time, Bye bye, all right,