Latest / Nutrition Connection by Dr. Kristen Hicks-Roof / 40: Kara Collier RD, CNSC - HEALTH TECH

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40: Kara Collier RD, CNSC - HEALTH TECH · Nutrition Connection by Dr. Kristen Hicks-Roof

• Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Hi and welcome back to Nutrition Connection, the show where science meets storytelling. I'm your host, Dr. Kristin X. Roof, dietitian, researcher, and lifelong advocate of the role of nutrition, health, and wellness. Each episode, I sit down with dietitians and nutrition experts all across the food and healthcare landscape, leaders whose work touches nearly every aspect of our lives. So whether you're a student, a seasoned professional, or someone simply curious about food, nutrition, and health, this podcast is just for you. The views, thoughts and comments on this podcast do not reflect those of my employer nor the employers of my guests. So let's go ahead and get connected. Y'all, I have a fellow Arizonian with me today. have Kara Collier. She's the VP of Clinical Services and Operations at NutriSense. Welcome to the show, Kara. Kara Collier: ⁓ thank you. So excited to be here. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: So I always love when I interact with dieticians and then we find out that we're actually in the same area. So we have not met each other in person, but we were able to have a meet and greet call the other day and it was just so awesome to get to know you and your non-traditional career path. So I'm really excited to have you on the show and really talk about what it's like being in some of these startups and entrepreneurial type companies and kind of this like health technology. So I just can't wait to dive in. Kara Collier: You Yeah, I'm super excited. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: So Kara, what inspired you and made you want to become a nutrition professional in the first place? Kara Collier: Yeah, so I've been interested in nutrition since I was really little. So probably middle school is when I started thinking about it more as a career, but I played sports growing up, volleyball specifically. And I remember we had a dietician come in and talk to us when I was like in seventh grade volleyball, you know, and she explained what carbohydrates and kind of different ways to fuel. And I was like, that's interesting. Like I've always had a science mind. And so I tried it and I could actually feel the difference. So I was like bought it and I was like, okay, this seems legitimate. And then kind of the interest just grew from there. And I always knew, you I didn't want to have maybe a traditional career path, but the topic of nutrition and the belief I had in how much of a positive impact it can have on people in the world started really, really early in those sports days. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: And I was also a athlete growing up. And I realized too, although I didn't realize until much later in my professional ⁓ sports career that I ate terribly as a teenager. And I look back and I'm like, man, if only I would have had that experience of someone and coming and talking to me about nutrition. I mean, I remember my mom saying like, Kristen, you need to eat some protein and carbohydrates and stop eating all that junk food. Kara Collier: ⁓ really? Mm-hmm. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: And I was like, no, mom, I'm gonna work it off. You know what I mean? But what I wish I would have known is that could have not only helped my performance, but also my recovery. Kara Collier: Mm-hmm, absolutely. Yeah, and sometimes it has to come from someone who's not your mom or your spouse or your friend, right? Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: No, that's definitely true. always heard I mean early in my career someone was always like Kristen you will never change your own family So just give up on it in terms of like getting them. I remember when I was younger I used to like make snap cups of nuts for my dad because he would you know Go long periods of time without meals and yeah, I tried and then I realized okay not for me So let's talk about you though. Let's talk about your journey So you ultimately decided that you wanted to become a dietitian so like What have you done since becoming a dietitian to walk through some of the careers to ultimately where you're at now in NutriSense? Kara Collier: Yeah, absolutely. So like I mentioned, I always knew the traditional path was probably not going to be the one for me, but I did start there. So in my dietetic internship, I remember telling my friends as we were graduating ⁓ that I was like, I'm going to do something different. I just don't know what it is yet. But ⁓ I did start kind of in inpatient care, ⁓ working mostly in ICU and step down units. I wanted to get that exposure. I would. recommend that people start there. It does not hurt to start with a job that you know you're not gonna do forever. That's invaluable experience. So got to see the way healthcare systems really work and all the pros and cons of that and the flaws and the frustrations and ⁓ eager 20 whatever year old Kara was trying to make all these changes in the hospital system and it wasn't really working. So. Eventually through many different conversations and meeting people and just putting yourself out there, I got connected with a nutrition software startup that was locally where I was living in Washington DC. So a small company and that was kind of my foot in the door of working in like more tech and kind of a different environment. Having a desk job, I was like, what is Excel? How do I like manage emails? You know, you're figuring out all these basic skill sets, honestly. that you don't learn in healthcare as much. So that was really good for me to get exposure in working with different types of people, different types of environment, and kind of bridging that gap. But from there, and kind of what I did is I was just reaching out to any company I found interesting. So like anything I thought was cool, I was reaching out to them and talking to people. And again, that led to my next role, which was actually at NutriSense. ⁓ where I joined as their first full-time employee. So I joined at very early stage startup doing my other full-time job at the same time. So navigating both roles and that was seven years ago. ⁓ So I joined kind of work consumer wellness company and we use continuous glucose monitors for more of the general population to help prevent or improve health. But we also provide nutrition support. So. ⁓ That's what led me to there. then, seven years later, I've done many, many different things at a startup. ⁓ But that's kind of been the trajectory is just following my interests and being pretty relentless along the way. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Well, and I think it's so funny that you say that you just reach out to whoever you want because that's you just reached out to me good. was like, why not? I'll have a meeting. I don't know who you are. And I think that takes it takes a lot of courage. But it's also if you want to create your own path, sometimes you do have to be able to just go out there and put yourself out there. And to your point, like even ⁓ my gosh, my brother and I were talking about this the other day, which is funny. I'm like talking about all my family members, but. Kara Collier: That's what I did hear you. ⁓ Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: My brother, works, he's a PA and he works in clinical practice and like to get him to like read emails and like do some of these like medial tasks where I'm at an office job, right? Like I know all these skills on Excel and Word and PowerPoint, all these things. And he's like, gosh, what a nightmare. You know, like I just want to be in the EMR system. So I do think. Kara Collier: Yeah. Yeah. And so you either like it or you don't, but there's only one way to know. You have to try. Yeah, you do. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Well, have to learn the skills, right? You have to be able to learn those skills. So talk about a little bit like what types of activities or responsibilities do you have with this startup and how have those grown throughout your time over the last seven years? Kara Collier: Yeah, so in the beginning few years, know, startups are strapped for resources, all types of resources, cash, people, time. And so the real thing is that you're going to wear many hats, you're going to do many different jobs. And so in the beginning days, I was all of our customers dietitians, but I was also all of our customers, customer support reps. And I was also the person building our social media and our website. I was building content and product development. So you're doing everything, but as you grow in scale, you have to specialize a little bit more. So a lot of what I do now is more on the leadership side of things. So developing strategy and then executing that on my team. So making sure I'm coaching and developing the people underneath me so that they can then go execute some of these tasks. So a lot of what I'm doing is both operational, so making sure the services we're providing, the nutrition services are operating smoothly and efficiently, but then also that they're operating from a high quality, so both like clinically, but also from a customer experience, more subjective perspective. So it's kind of both of this quality side of things and this operational side of things, and then leadership. and then working with our other departments. So making sure our product team is both clinically sound, but also relevant to what our customers want. Speaking on behalf of the company. So a lot of kind of more of that branding public speaking. So that's all shifted over the years, of course, ⁓ but that's a little taste of kind of what I do day to day. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: So these are not typical skills that you may have developed when you're in your program. So how did you upskill yourself as you were building that out? I mean, I know for me, I had never built a strategy. I've managed projects, I've managed, you know, thousands and million dollars research projects, but I never knew how to build a strategy. So that's something that I've had to learn. So like, how did you build some of those skills and did you have mentors or did you take courses or how did you kind of upskill to be able to do that? Kara Collier: Yeah, absolutely. And that's something if somebody is interested in more of the startup health tech route is being comfortable doing things that you've never done before. 99.9 % of the things I've done like the were the first time I was doing them at some point, like I was learning as I was doing. So you're learning by making mistakes and being okay, making mistakes and then doing it better the next time. Like if I started all the way over, I'm sure I would do everything so much. better than I did the first time around. But yeah, you're learning by doing. And then it's a lot easier to learn now than it was seven years ago, too. I can learn new skills now much faster because we have all these AI tools that can help teach you and give you feedback and iterate with you. So take advantage of the technology that's now available, where seven years ago I was like, I don't know, I'm kind of talking in a vacuum and just sort of seeing what's working. But mentors helps too. You don't always have to reinvent the wheel. And that's where it doesn't hurt to reach out to people. Because I never take it personally if somebody never replies to me or says no. Because everyone's busy. They have their lives. But you're never going to get the shots that you don't take. So you just have to try. Put yourself out there. And the more people that you can have that you can ask specific questions to and kind of figure out how they did something, I think is is extremely helpful and kind of having that collaborative atmosphere internally within the company too. So making sure with your peers that it's not, you know, I think maybe in corporate America, it's more stereotypical that it's sort of like ego driven or like, you know, I want to make sure that I'm competing against you because I'm we're both going for a promotion. But really with your peers and your co workers, you can learn from each other. And together, you can both be better. So Really, you've tried to create that environment internally as well of how can we all just keep improving and learning from each other, especially remotely. I don't think I have a remote position for the past seven years. It's harder to just see somebody do something and be like, ⁓ that's an interesting way to do it. So you have to go out of your way to see how people are doing things. So I think that little bit of effort goes a long way too. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah, I know I completely agree with you. I know when I was transitioning into remote environment, both as my academic life and then in my current role, you know, one of the things that I said of why I would be really good in this remote role is intention. So you can't wait when you're a remote employee, you can't wait for just content to come to you or people to reach out to you all the time. Right. Like sometimes, yes, of course that happens, but you really have to be intentional, whether that means Kara Collier: Mm-hmm. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: intentional time catching up, intentional time reading all the team's notifications or whatever platform you have, all the notifications of what your peers are doing, what sort of new content or resources are available, all that takes intention. And I really think that as a skillset that if we can showcase more in job interviews of like, here's why I will be so good. I think it'll go a long way. Now, obviously that's just my viewpoint, but I think your examples of Kara Collier: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: being able to work cross-functionally, that takes intention. Being able to go out and meet new people and learn, right? It's kind of like you're learning while doing your, ⁓ what is it? You're building an airplane while flying it. Like you literally are. And all that takes intention. You have to be able to start somewhere, because you can't expect it to be ready to go. So I think if you're interested in kind of this startup world, what I'm getting from you is like, Kara Collier: Yeah, exactly. Literally. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: You gotta be comfortable getting outside your box. Would you agree? Kara Collier: ⁓ yeah, absolutely. Intention, ⁓ being okay with failure. think dieticians tend to be, I am a type A perfectionist, but I am aware of it and I know what I'm doing it I'm like, okay, nope, we're not gonna do that. So you can have that like natural proclivity and still go against it and still be okay with failing and moving fast. So I think that's part of it as well. And then the third is, yeah, you have to be the one who's gonna be willing to take initiative. It's not a type of world like tech and startups is not the world where someone's just gonna like give you the playbook of how to do it. Like we're not gonna give you the manual of like how to do this job if you want that. you're probably not gonna be able to climb into a certain type of role. You have to be the one that sees a problem and go fix it. who wants to learn a new skill and just goes and learn it. So take ownership and kind of take that initiative, I think is the other really big thing. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: When you said earlier, like there's so many tools now that between AI and you always have the good old YouTube where you're like, how do I learn how to do this on Excel? I YouTube it all the time. Like, cause there's so many functions and skills that those are things that we didn't learn in school. And so I think that's where this term upscale of like being able to learn new skills, adapt, and then, you know, ultimately get better at your job. And that, that is a way you move up and clearly you're a good example of that. So. Kara Collier: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I love talking about science. I'm a researcher by training. And so how does science really impact what you do in your day to day, especially with continuous glucose monitors that have gotten a lot more attention, I would say, over the last year. Kara Collier: Yeah, it has. And when we started seven years ago, I will say the science was limited. ⁓ So everything we do, of course, is science-based as possible. So again, seven years ago, there was no research on CGMs and non-diabetics. So we had to extrapolate. ⁓ looking at all the research in diabetics and pre-diabetics or gestational diabetes, and then understanding the physiology of a non-diabetic and making those connections and understanding. Now there's a lot more research and we could do our own internal reviewing of our data now that we've had thousands of customers and lots of data points of what are normal trends. So a lot of what... where science ⁓ comes in play with me is understanding both what does the data mean from the hardware, the continuous glucose monitors, but then of course, how do you apply the regular behavior change strategies to improve that? So there is this novelty element with the glucose data, but then 90 % of it is, okay, how do I change my habits? How do I actually implement sustainable behavior change? How do I deal with real life? So it really is still a lot of psychology, habit formation, motivational interviewing, ⁓ kind of understanding the behavior change side of things at the end of the day, which all is science-based too, but ⁓ not in the way that probably our customers think it's gonna be at first, or they think it's gonna be some. fancy like data equation, but really it still comes down to kind of changing your habits and understanding that psychology element. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: think that's the million dollar question. How do we get people to change behaviors? I have read so many theories and so many papers and while right, there's so many ways that we can get it, get people to change behavior, but it's not a one size fits all. So I think to me, continuous glucose monitors are a tool in your toolbox that may work for some people, right? It may not work for everyone. And I don't mean that like it will work for everyone to collect the data for sure. Kara Collier: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: But in terms of like actually prompting the behavior change, is people who really like these health technologies, you know, right? Like the aura rings and the, all these different data systems, like the MyFitnessPals where you're tracking what you're eating. Like it's not for everyone, but for those who are really motivated by data and to see change, I do think there's a huge opportunity. So I like how you said it. It's science-y. Kara Collier: Mm-hmm. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Like it is science to develop it and it is science and behavior science theories to do it. But the actual implementation also has to meet consumer behavior where science is. It's like this intersect of reality and data. Kara Collier: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And one thing that I have learned, I agree that it's not for everybody. Like it doesn't work for everyone. But what I have noticed as there is some element to the real time data. So whether that's continuous glucose monitor or my smartwatch or like your step tracker, like something that's giving you that continuous feedback that does work with most people's kind of like innate psychology, right? Like we like that immediate gratification. Of course we do. We know we're addicted to it. Actually, we want the pain, we want the like reinforcement. And so normally, with you know, nutrition behavior changes this very long delay and like I do something today and the positive outcome, I don't know, maybe I never see it actually, and they never come. Or, you know, you do something good, you work out and then you're sore, there's a negative reinforcement. And you're like, I don't know if I like doing this. So what does help with that continuous data stream for a lot of people is closing that time gap to see like, ⁓ I did this thing and either something positive or negative happened. And it helps kind of reinforce that ⁓ in a way that is more motivating to most people. For some people, I think there's the subset of people where it stresses them out more than it helps them. And you need to know that about yourself. ⁓ But for a lot of people, it helps kind of create that connection. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: what I think is an opportunity for this personalized nutrition, right? Like I was on, I was in a talk the other day by Abbott ⁓ on their Libra, Libre, the freestyle Libre, which is a continuous glucose monitor for people with diabetes. And I was asking, what about people without diabetes? You know, and obviously it was sponsored. And so they weren't able to communicate much beyond that because it is approved for people with diabetes. But Kara Collier: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: it did bring up the question. They were talking about how these continuous glucose monitors allow people to notice changes that are different upon every individual. So like if I were to eat a BLT sandwich and you were to eat it, we may actually have different responses. And that could be due to insulin resistance. It could be to a number of different genetics, metabolism, you name it. And so I think it's really interesting to see Kara Collier: Mm-hmm. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: how these play a role in the future of nutrition science and personalized nutrition. I think startups are such a great opportunity for dieticians to come in where we are the nutrition experts. And if they don't have a dietician on the team, they're not gonna be thinking with that nutrition in mind. They're gonna be thinking maybe data only, right? And so I think dieticians and nutrition experts can almost bridge the gap between Kara Collier: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Here's what the science says, but here's what it could mean for a consumer and why this product would be important for our consumers. So whether that's the social content or your name, I do think there's a lot of ways that dietitians can be that bridge between technologies and real life. Kara Collier: Yeah, I mean, I absolutely agree. There still is very much like there needs to be that connection in order for it to be more effective. And as you mentioned, there are more and more startups in the space because I think there's more and more consumer demand for it, which is amazing, of course. ⁓ I'm the optimist that thinks where we're really moving in the right direction in terms of people becoming more interested in nutrition and kind of taking it into their own hands. But on the lens of personalization, I've seen this thousands of times now in people's data. It's really powerful. And I think it was one of the most like wake up call moments for me when I first started compared to, you you're doing the best you can with the information you have, but as a nutritionist, dietician, giving the same recommendations to most people, maybe that's all you have, but then you realize when you see this data that that's not necessarily. the most effective thing. ⁓ Glycemic index is a population level scale, but if you look at an individual, they're gonna fall all over that scale. So one person responds really differently to bananas than another person. And so as we move more and more towards personalization, I think it's gonna help both the professional be able to hone in on their recommendations and create a more effective plan, but then it also helps the patient and the individual. because of course they're getting better information, but I do think it also drives that motivation when I see that it's personalized to them. It's like, ⁓ this isn't a generic recommendation. This is my body telling me what is best or what I need. So again, back to the behavior change element, it all is beneficial and kind of driving sticky habits. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: And the thing is where science is again, advancing and you need data in real life scenarios, controlled scenarios to be able to ultimately get there. So I think I agree with you. I think we are moving in the right direction. Now there is a long way to go, but especially with AI and technologies and startups and all these different connective devices, I think we're moving at a transformational pace than what we were, you know, even pre-internet. I was telling my kids the other day, Kara Collier: Yeah. Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I was like, you know, when I was a kid, we didn't even have cell phones. And by eight year olds, like her mouth drops. She was like, what did you do all day? Kara Collier: Yeah, it's crazy, right? Yeah, we are moving at a exponential rate. It's going to be yeah, the pace of change is fast. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: kids. It is so fast. So what has been your favorite part about your career? What you feel like you've had the most impact so far? Kara Collier: Yeah, there's been a lot of really meaningful moments. ⁓ But I think for me, what stands out is really the leadership element. So being able to kind of see talent beneath you and like really shape that and grow people and have them have their own amazing, meaningful careers and being a part of that to me has been the most meaningful part. ⁓ It's very exciting to yell like there, you there are a few people who were dietitians on my team that I could tell had additional skill sets and all of those things that I talked about. And now they've grown and maybe they're still at NutriSense. Maybe they're not, but they've developed careers that are fulfilling to them and they're excelling at that. I don't think that they necessarily thought they could do. ⁓ So that element of it I love. So I love the leadership part and kind of the coaching and developing talent. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I like how you called it. ⁓ What did you say? said ⁓ meaningful, meaningful moments. actually really like that. I might embed that in my script. Meaningful moments, right? And it's you can make such an impact as a leader if you give the attention, right? You have to give the attention to curate and really support ⁓ early emerging career professionals, whether they're early, mid, late, whatever, whatever career path you're in. You really need leaders, right? Kara Collier: Mmm. Mm-hmm. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Leaders help to drive and make sure that you actually enjoy your job. Because we do know if you have poor leadership and management, you actually don't like the job as much, even if you actually like what you do today. So I agree with you there that I love mentoring students. I love mentoring young professionals, early, mid, late careers. know when I used to teach in my academic life, I used to teach several doctoral level courses. And I remember when Kara Collier: Yep. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: It was like our first cohort and we had some people who were older in age. OK, they were not old. They were older in age and they looked at me and they were kind of like, you're teaching the course like I was. I don't even think I was 30 when I was when I started teaching at the faculty level. And they were like, I'm so much older than you. Like, are you sure you know what you're talking about? I said, I promise I know like I am such an avid learner. mean, I know probably more than you would ever want to know. Kara Collier: Yeah Ha ha ha. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: ⁓ But it it allows you to develop that next generation. And it really is such a meaningful moment. Like I take really big pride when I see the successes of my former students or my former interns. Like it just, it's such a feel good moment. So I can definitely connect with you there. And I'm sure people who are listening, like you've had that person who's made an impact on you likely personally, and I'm sure you've made an impact on someone else, whether you know it or not, you likely have so. Kara Collier: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Keep it up, I love that. And we need more of that in our profession, especially as we continue to diversify in career opportunities. So speaking of meaningful moments and mentoring, what suggestions or tips would you have for someone who's interested in roles like yours? So at startups building the career ladder, what tips would you give them? Kara Collier: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and I think we touched on a lot of the big ones, honestly, but like I said, put yourself out there. Don't be afraid to reach out to people, especially startups. have everyone building a company, we're so busy, like so busy. And so there's a million things that you need to do. And so if you feel like you see an opportunity, just like try to email get to get across to someone and just say you're interested or say like you have these skill sets, if they need any help, like you never know where it's gonna go. That's what I was doing in the beginning. And there were several other startups that I did kind of random projects for and like a few hours here and there for before it turned into a full-time thing because I was just interested in it. So I think listen to the things that are interesting to you, take initiative. And if you do want to climb the ladder in startups and tech, the biggest thing is just, yeah, taking that initiative. If you see a problem, go fix it. Like don't wait for someone to teach you how to do something. If you don't have a skill set, go learn it. Like don't wait for an amazing manager to kind of help coach you. Like that might come along, but it might not. ⁓ And you can totally do it. I think in nutrition professional is probably in a lot of professions. We think of this as our area of expertise. I can't go outside of that. And don't create those self-limiting beliefs because you can do whatever you want to do. And what I've learned also is, yes, maybe I didn't learn finance and business strategy and data analytics traditionally like other people did who maybe studied business or worked in consulting, but I can go learn those skills. And some of the skills I did learn, like the psychology elements and behavior change are very transferable to things like leadership. and to things like being a good manager. Those are skill sets that can be transferable. So I think just don't limit yourself and take initiative and I don't know, drink big, you never know. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: stream big, hey, you never know. And that's, mean, that's one of the core constructs of this podcast, like showing you that you can have a career in every sector of food, agriculture, and health. I mean, there are dieticians everywhere. And sometimes those are pre-developed positions. And sometimes like yours, you created your own from scratch, right? So I'm curious, you know, maybe you can help the listeners too. Like, did you have an LLC when you first started or like, how did you initiate Kara Collier: You create it, yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: with those startups? Like number one, how did you even find startups? And number two, how did you initiate? Like was it a cold call, an email, or like how did you go through pitching yourself as a business woman? Kara Collier: I don't think I was pitching myself as a business woman at that time. I was like 26. And I think I was just interested in a few different topics. Like I knew I loved the wearables and data elements. I also really liked at the time, I still do like women's health and maternal health. And so if I would, I think it was just Google searching or I'd listen to a lot of podcasts. So if I would hear something on a podcast and I was like, oh, that's interesting. Like a guest, like a guest on a podcast and their company, you know, I'm going and finding them and reaching out to them, whether it's LinkedIn or a lot of these companies, how it happened with NutriSense, I just went on their website ⁓ and submitted like, you know, a contact form was like, Hey, I think what you're doing is super cool. We actually found the email recently. I was like, Hey, what you're doing is really cool. Like I've learned a lot about metabolic health would be happy to help if you need help. So it wasn't much of a pitch and you know, they did need help. It just happened to be like the right moment, right time. But what you don't see are the however many other companies I reached out to that I didn't hear from, but it doesn't take a lot of my time to do that. ⁓ So yeah, websites, LinkedIn. I think those were the main ways, yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Well, it reminds me way back. It's so funny you say like I was not really a business woman because I remember when I was doing consulting, I mean early in my career and I was just like, hey, here I am. Here's my expertise. And then it didn't happen right then. It was like three years later, Florida Medical Association called me and they were like, we need a dietician to develop this physician nutrition curriculum. was like, awesome. Like that is my whole research area. And I actually reached out to you three years ago and she's like, yeah, I know. Kara Collier: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: That's the you're the only dietitian I know. Are you interested? And I was like, OK, so sometimes you really do need to plant the seed and you don't know if that is going to flourish right away. Or maybe it's going to be downstream when they're like, OK, we're through the development process. Wow, we really need a nutrition expert. Hey, that girl, Kara, reached out to us like a year ago. Do you want to reach out to her? So. Kara Collier: Yeah. Yeah, you never know. And on the flip side of it, when you need something in a company, you're like, ⁓ shoot, I need nutrition help. You do, it's so much easier to be like, ⁓ what about that one person that took initiative? They're clearly a go-getter. They clearly are already differentiating themselves. And it's going to be way easier to reach out to them than open a position and talk to a million different people. So if there's a way to shortcut all that effort on the employer side, you will. So yeah, you just never know. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: when if you do good work, then you get talked about to other industries. So I do think it is, it's really interesting you say that because the other day I was like, dang, I really need a designer. Like I need someone easy. And then I'm like, how do I find one? You know what I mean? I'm like, I need to go. There is a lot of work. It's all like, okay, I need to talk with people who also do similar work that I do so I can find a person to easily work with. You know what I mean? So I do think it's such a. Kara Collier: Yeah. Yeah, it's like it's a lot of work. You don't want to do that. Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: big world, but a small world at the exact same time that like it's good to put yourself out there because again, you never know what's going to happen. Okay. Given your expertise in health tech, I can't wait to see how you answer this question, but if you had a crystal ball of Kara, what do you think is coming next in nutrition? Kara Collier: 100%. Yeah. Yeah, I do think we are going to keep leaning more and more on the personalization side. So like we said, technology is moving at a fast pace. It's going to be crazy, honestly, but I think we're going to really develop better technologies to kind of really hone in on personalization. We're sort of there on a few things, but I think we've only kind of made a dent in the personalization bucket, but I feel like that's the only way to go. And my hope like, one day is that we also have more ⁓ tangible biomarkers to help us understand preventative or like proactive actions. So if we could develop some sort of technology that I think could justify both for like insurers and like payers and all the ways that yes, like what you're doing now is actually making a positive impact. ⁓ I think that will completely change the landscape of how we think about health and nutrition. And these are technology problems that I think ⁓ we will be able to solve. On the flip side of that, like AI is also going to be a competitor in the nutrition space. So you really have to think about how you want to differentiate, I think as on the professional side of things when now certain skill sets or ⁓ value ads are not necessarily the thing that you need to be doing anymore, which is okay. It's shifting and changing. I think it's gonna be more and more of the human and behavior change side of things and understanding how to make that connection to turn it into a product that people actually like or how to make that connection to turn it into something that people are actually willing to do. So kind of understanding the broader context versus being super niched and specialized I think is gonna become more valuable. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I mean, that's a lot to digest and there's so many things I wanna respond to that, but it just reminds me. So I was scrolling Facebook earlier and someone had said, I'm looking at starting to develop menu plans. Like, what can I start charging? And part of me was like, is that almost obsolete? Like I responded back, which I probably shouldn't have, but I was like, AI tools can do all that now. Like, how do you then, how do you take this concept of a meal plan and be able to personalize it, truly personalize it, right? Whether that means, Kara Collier: Yeah. Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: pairing it with some sort of smart device or pairing it with behavior change counseling, right? To be able to accompany that. But I do think that it's going to create ⁓ opportunities for us to upskill of like, how do we lean into some of these technologies? And if you ⁓ haven't listened the episode with Raul Palacios, he's an AI guru and he talks about some of the science that's out there on these AI technologies. And it is fascinating. I mean, I was just talking to my husband about it the other day, like, Kara Collier: Mm-hmm. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: There's now like they're working in the background of science to develop like apps where you could just talk to your phone and they could tell you could have diabetes with like a 98 % precision just by talking. And so like imagine these devices, right? Like you see those, those Google glasses or I don't even know what brand they are where you can. It reminds me of like being spy kids. Like if you're a millennial out there, you probably remember spy kids and all the technology and you're like. This is now real life. How trippy is that? Kara Collier: Yeah, it is crazy. There's going to be all these new technologies. And to your point, yeah, if you're trying to develop a meal planning service, I would just stop like, that's not going to be the thing anymore. Like you have to know what technology can now do almost better than us. Like, what it can't necessarily do is make sure you're prompting it correctly. Like, ⁓ actually make a meal plan with like this nuance because you understand that context. but you can prompt it and have it generate a meal plan for your client and give it to them. But if you're actually manually making them, like that's, yeah, we have to work with technology, not try to like compete with it. Instead, it's okay, where are the gaps and how can I do it better? Or how can I use technology to augment what I can do and what I can offer? Yeah, I think we had to work with it rather than seeing it as like a competition that we could be better because we're credentialed. It's like, I don't know, don't think like engaging in that battle is gonna be very productive because at the end of the day, someone's going to use something that's free and accessible and they don't care if you have a credential, like their chat GBT is easier and so we have to just acknowledge that reality. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Well, and think that it's a tough pill for, think a lot of dieticians and nutrition experts to swallow because we've so leaned on, are the only nutrition expert out there and there are more tools and technologies and change is really hard. know, a lot of people really struggle with change and you know, this is literally a family episode. I never talk about my family. It reminds me of my grandma when cell phones were just coming out and she was like, I don't even understand what to do with this. So I also think you, Kara Collier: Mm-hmm. Hahaha Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: you're gonna see this age demographic of like these young, mean, these Gen Zs, they know technology like the back of their hand versus me. I'm like, all right, like it took me 40 episodes to get a new microphone because I realized, okay, my audio isn't that good. And so I think it's gonna be changed and it's okay to slowly adapt. We don't need to go from zero to a hundred overnight, but it's like, how do we continue to learn? Kara Collier: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: and see what's out there. Try some of the tools ourselves, whether that is a continuous glucose monitor or a new microphone or a smart device. And then how do we understand what those things are, what they offer, and then how do we accompany some of those smart technologies? Kara Collier: Yeah, 100 % agree, yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah, so Kara, what an awesome episode. Thanks so much for telling all about your career. It was great to have you on. If you like the show, make sure you like, subscribe, leave review, but most importantly, check out the next episode because every episode I bring on a different dietitian and nutrition expert to tell their story and give you advice. Thanks again, Kara. Kara Collier: Yeah, absolutely.