Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 847: Neanderthal Love, Mule Deer Eradication, and Mink Eyelashes

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Ep. 847: Neanderthal Love, Mule Deer Eradication, and Mink Eyelashes · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the news show. On this week's episode, we're
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: covering new research on how Neanderthal's Neanderthals, if you want
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: to be more official, how Neanderthals got it on the
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: controversial Catalina Island. Dear Annihilation program. Is your wife or
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: daughter or you wearing illegally imported fake eyelashes made of
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: minkfurt are tattoos gonna be totally screwed in the future.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: And just when you thought Colorado animal rights people couldn't
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: embarrass their state any more than they already have, they
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: do Bringing you this news, We've got me Stephen Ronella,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: along with Giannis poutell Us, doctor Randall, William Spencer, Newheart
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Brody Henderson. The show is broken into three segments, Our News,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: your news, and the news. Starting us out with our news,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: We've got Janis with no news.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Why is it known news?
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Because you haven't caught a lion? How do you report
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: on that?
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: In this case, no news is not good news?
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Hmm, I don't know. I'm always the optimist.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: My dog and I are still getting out there on
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: plenty of nice hikes in the mountains, enjoining ourselves, practicing
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: what we're trying to do.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: He's trying to put a positive spin on this.
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: Do you think if Mingus could talk, he'd say, yeah,
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: this is fun.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you think the dog isn't bummed that you
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: guys haven't caught one yet this year.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know if he knows. I have no idea
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: of sort of what his sense of time is.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: I venture to guess if the dog doesn't think of
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: it as being that he's in this season and then
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: there'll be another season next year.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: And I don't know that he can he knows that
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: it's been a long time he saw a lion.
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: But I would venture to guess that if you had
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: two bowls of kibble and you could metaphorically put chasing
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: a lion and catching it into one bowl and then
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: just sort of aimlessly chasing sense to the woods and
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: the other bowl and never catching the line, I think
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: you would go for that bowl first.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: He would, I think.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: So, I mean, you don't know what mental trip he's on.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: No, he could.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Be like just a real process or anything. He could
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: be like when he's laying there sleep and you think like, oh,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: look at him sleeping, he could be there being like
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: I'm a loser. I always knew, you know, I came
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: from the kennel. I came from the dog pound. I'll
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: never live it down.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: Or it could be the opposite.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: One's owner abandoned me.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: When he's on a line, he could be like, kind
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: of hate this, but I know he likes.
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: Or he's like he's like, if we caught one two
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: months ago, I wouldn't be the best shape of my
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: life right now.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Or he's like, I don't see the point in harass
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: in these poor things. I'm not gonna chase it up
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: a tree.
• 3:04
  Speaker 5: Oh rebelling m Maybe he's disappointed in you, Yanni.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: What do you think about this?
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: N That could be too uh, you know, it's been
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: it's been humbling, That's what I think about it. Because
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: he's five this year, so really we've been hard at
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: it for this would probably be the fourth year, right,
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: So we've had three years. One of those years was
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: cut very short by that accident that we had together
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: with Mangus. So really he had like two good years.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: And in those two good years, he had a year
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: where he caught like sixteen lions, and then a thirteen year,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: a thirteen lion year. So to go now to this
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: year to have none, it's like, oh, were those flukes?
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: No, I don't think sixteen and thirteen that doesn't You
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: don't luck, That's not like if it was like two
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: and one, yeah, y yeah, and zero, I'd be like, well,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: maybe zero is normal, but sixteen thirteen zero something happened.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the weather happens.
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: Are you blaming the snow? Is that the problem?
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: For sure? But I've also just had a string of
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: bad luck where on the good snow days, we've found
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: tracks and one day the tracks literally filled in with
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: snow in front of our eyes, like it's just snowing
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: so hard. Multiple days, I've had tracks that just took
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: a left when they should have kept going right, and
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: they went on to private land. So I just called
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: mangus back. One day, I felt like we were within
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: hundreds of yards less than a thousand yards of pair
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: of lions, and it literally was getting dark on us.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: I'm like, ah, you just gotta at some point, you
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: just got to call it because it's getting you know,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: it gets dangerous when he gets dark, right, I don't
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: want to leave him out all night long. So there's
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: been a string of that kind of stuff also, But
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: the fact that Yeah, we've had like the worst snow
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: winter in a long time. It's definitely played into it.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: Understood, Thank you, honest, you're welcome.
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: How many numbers of days in the field to it?
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: You know, I wish I had.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: I just had a burning question.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: No, that's a good question, because I feel like I've
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: been hunting roughly the same amount.
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: Oh it's even more between the you know.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: Over the last four or five years.
• 5:23
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't have a number for you, but
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: if I had to guess, we've been out maybe twenty days.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: But you know, I've talked about this before. I think
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: I talked about this on a previous podcast. The one
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: silver lining of this year is not catching anything. We
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: caught a bobcat oh yeah, which I know you're real
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: frustrated about that, but catching release, catch and released about
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: half I know. But that's huge for me as a
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: as a hound owner.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Oh that's a triumph.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for him be able to do that all by himself,
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: it was. It was a big day. So all all
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: is not lost. Like, if that's the only thing that
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: happens this this hound season, it'll be a pretty good
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: season because we accomplished that one thing.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would just say you caught one and leave
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: it at that.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: One cat, one cat, one cat.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Did you get your cats? Yep?
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But I mean if you talk to like our
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: good buddy Jake Gribb, he'll tell you that that one
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Bobcat is worth ten to twenty lines.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: So then you say that, say ten to twenty.
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: Then you're right on You're right on average here.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not over for you yet.
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: Anyway, you got one good time another.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I got a big I got a big.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Month, big hot. You get big hot, snowless month, seventy
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: degrees next week, they're saying it's coming.
• 6:44
  Speaker 5: I can't believe the conversion rate is ten to twenty
• 6:47
  Speaker 5: mountain lions for one bombcat.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: I don't believe that. I think it's an exaggerate.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: It is so hard. Many people, many people literally will
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: not cut loose on a Bobcat track because they're like,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: it's not worth my time. We're not gonna catch it.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: We're just gonna end up on this long chase and
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: end up in a pile of rocks, and I won't
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: get to see a Bobcat. Maybe it's even.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Hot ground mountain.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's so special that maybe what.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: I think it's gonna happen with this Steve.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: It's so special. I would consider by getting a tattoo
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: to debt, to honor believe the word I'm looking for memorialized.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, memorialized. I would have it to be a tattoo,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: no tattoo, and be like, this blank spot on my
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: skin is the year nothing happened.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: No, he should get a lion tattoo to be like,
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: oh that's what they look didn't you just do.
• 7:46
  Speaker 7: An indefensible loss, Steve where people should memorialize places where
• 7:49
  Speaker 7: things didn't happen.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I did one where where you would put
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: signs where people almost got killed.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Uh. On the subject tattoos, the radio Live finale, a
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: tattoo artist came in and did he in the office.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: He did thirteen tattoos that day. Oh wow, Rody got
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: his first tattoo ever, which my wife thought was cool.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: When he gets all done, when he gets all done,
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: this is my news here. He gets all done, and
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: me and him get the bs and and I'm like, hey,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: act like you're giving me one. Get it all set up,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: act like you're giving me one. And I'm gonna send
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: it to. We have a family group text chat called
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: the Free Trappers. So I'm like, act like you're giving
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: me one, and I'm gonna send it to my family
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: and be like. I finally broke down. I can't believe
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: I did it. I got a tattoo. I send it
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: no reply. My little ones later told me they knew
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: it wasn't true. My wife had already talked to Brody,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: so she knew it wasn't true. My fifteen year old
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: going on sixteen, this is why I know that tattoos
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: are in trouble. The tattoo industry is in trouble. Okay,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: fifteen year old, He says, that is so blank, I
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: can't say what. He says he'd get in trouble to
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: his mom. Later, he so he thinks it's true. Later
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: he says to me, dude, don't ever comment on my
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: hair cut again, Like coming from a guy with a
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: tattoo and their mind like and him and his buddy's minds.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: I gather it is the dorkiest thing a person could do.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Not rebellious, not rebellious.
• 9:54
  Speaker 8: It's like, oh my god, times have changed, Oh my god,
• 9:58
  Speaker 8: I don't think so tattoos have been.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: I thought, here's why I think that his social circle
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: is interesting. They have a foot in two worlds. He's
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: been brought up around all kinds of redneck stuff, knows
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: all kinds of rednecks, right, he just went and pulled
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: calves at his buddy's ranch. But he also knows all
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: about rich people. He knows about like rich urban people
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: and ski people. So here's this kind of interesting mix
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: of redneck stuff and rich people stuff. And from either
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: side of that, he's not getting tattoo cool factor from
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: either side. So I just am worried about the tattoo market.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: I'm not because my kid said I want to get
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: the same one as you. I was wondering if you
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: had your argument.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: I'm looking at data right now.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Spencer went got his.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Trump the America the Beautiful Past, and Phil has data
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: on this right now here.
• 11:05
  Speaker 7: I am looking at a percentage of Americans with tattoos
• 11:07
  Speaker 7: over time, and the year nineteen thirty six, it looks
• 11:10
  Speaker 7: like ten percent of the American population had tattoos. If
• 11:14
  Speaker 7: we jump and then two thousand and three, that's a
• 11:16
  Speaker 7: long jump. It was sixteen percent. But then we have
• 11:19
  Speaker 7: from two thousand and three to twenty twelve, twenty one
• 11:22
  Speaker 7: percent of Americans had tattoos. From twenty twelve to twenty fifteen,
• 11:25
  Speaker 7: that number jump from twenty one to twenty nine, and
• 11:27
  Speaker 7: from twenty fifteen to twenty twenty three that number jumped
• 11:31
  Speaker 7: to thirty two percent.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Boo, it's been a steady increase.
• 11:35
  Speaker 6: He's looking over the clever.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's why Phil should do a better job of listening.
• 11:41
  Speaker 7: So you're so your argument is like, right now, sure
• 11:44
  Speaker 7: the future Okay, I'm just saying the trends disagree.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: We're in the tattoo. Our trend doesn't show the future
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: because it's not no much I got. I run the future.
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: That's why I'm telling you he's forecasting a sharp decline
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: based on I.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Have detected an attitudinal shift. I have detected an attitudinal shift,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: and I looked at data, and so if I'm going
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: to go on to a prediction market, I want to
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: make a bet that in twenty years there has been
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: a cataclysmic drop off in tattoo rates. Because I've had
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: a glimpse into the future by talking to my kids' buddies.
• 12:28
  Speaker 7: Yeah, you could be very very right based on what
• 12:31
  Speaker 7: they're doing in the alcohol industry and how they don't
• 12:33
  Speaker 7: like sex and movies.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, a bunch of breeds. Yeah, Spencer got a
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: new pass from explain this. This is very interesting. This
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: is legit news.
• 12:45
  Speaker 5: I went to Yellowstone a couple of weekends ago, and
• 12:48
  Speaker 5: my winter trip there is usually when we get our
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: new past for the year. It's called the America the
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: Beautiful Pass.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: How long has that existed?
• 12:55
  Speaker 5: Since two thousand and four, I believe some version of
• 12:58
  Speaker 5: it has existed. Phil's got them pulled up the America
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: the Beautiful Pass. It's eighty dollars. It grants you entry
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: to national parks, national wildlife refugees. Also covers your day
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: use fees if you're in National forest Grasslands blm Army
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: corps Land a place where you're required to pay a
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: day use fee. You typically don't need to you if.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: You have, it's like a good deal if you do
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: these things a lot.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Right, certainly, Yeah, yep.
• 13:22
  Speaker 5: But I think although there's like so many places it
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: gives you access to, these are primarily just using national parks.
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: That's what people buy them for us to get in
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: and out of national parks for a year, and and
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: you and the missus buy one every year every year
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: since we moved to Montana. So this is our seventh
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: pass that we've had. I've got three of them here.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Now, why didn't you buy it in South Dakota?
• 13:42
  Speaker 5: Just didn't attend national parks the same way we do now,
• 13:45
  Speaker 5: didn't live as close to the Rushmore.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but that'd get you into Rushmore.
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: It would get you into Rushmore.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, actually rush.
• 13:53
  Speaker 5: So the America the Beautiful Pass. It's like the size
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: of your credit card or driver's license. It's a laminated card.
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: Traditionally these have a photo on them of wildlife for landscape,
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: and I've got past examples here that you can see.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: And you go back to that that shot you had.
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: Up and that's that's showing you like the last decade
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: of that's a roseated spoon bill. That is a yes
• 14:14
  Speaker 5: correct from the Everglades.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: So what year is that? That is last year national
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: park roseated spoon bilt.
• 14:20
  Speaker 5: And then what year is this twenty twenty four? That's
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: an Eastern collared.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Lizard, Okay lizard twenty twenty four past.
• 14:27
  Speaker 5: Twenty twenty three. It was a landscape picture from King's
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: Canyon National Park.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: So that's you get an idea of what they look
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: like what park would that be from?
• 14:36
  Speaker 5: I don't know, Denali, the Arctic. I also don't think
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: it has to be in a national it's just like
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: federal land. And so you did say it's gotta be
• 14:46
  Speaker 5: a it's it's like by law since two thousand and four,
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: it's been a federal law that the way these are
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: chosen is there is a picture contest done by what
• 14:56
  Speaker 5: is it the National Parks Foundation, and the winning photo
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: from that is on the pass for the following year.
• 15:03
  Speaker 5: So this year you can see what it was supposed
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: to be. It was supposed to be Glacier National Park
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: in Montana. That was what the winning photo was from
• 15:09
  Speaker 5: last year. But the the Trump administration has changed this.
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: They they are breaking this two thousand and four federal
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: law and instead it is a picture of George Washington
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: and Donald Trump on the pass.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: And and this this has made some folks very mad.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: It's made folks very mad. He doesn't look like he's
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: at the park.
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: No, it has.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: You wouldn't look at that and think, you know why,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: you know, it looks like it looks like he got
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: to the outhouse at the park. He got to the
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: and it was and it's and and there's and it's overflowed.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: And he opened the door and he's like someone's gonna pay.
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: Yes, And you can see these these photos on our
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: YouTube channel.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: And I mean, in all fair and this is two
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: hundred and fiftieth first president, current president, two hundred fift
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: years of presidents. I think that's what this is going
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: for here.
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: Yes, I mean he made a lot of changes with
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: National park related stuff this year that is supposed to
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: be more patriotic. For example, he got rid of Juneteenth
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: and MLK Day as free days, and he's made Flag Day,
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: which is his birthday, and then President's Days as free
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: days instead. And this is all patriotic. Team He's also
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: this is a good one. He bumped up the fee
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: for non residents if you're from Canada, if you're from Italy.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: I support that, and I agree that's I think that's
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: the other stuff I don't get.
• 16:34
  Speaker 5: That's a North American thing that we're like, if you
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: want to go recreate in Colorado as a non resident,
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: you pay a higher fee.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: It's like part of it.
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: They've also removed like indigenous perspectives from that's.
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah, totally different.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: Happens if you put a piece of tape over Trump's Yeah.
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: So within within days of the new year, when these
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: went into effect, the National Park Service had to release
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: a statement saying that your pass will be voided if
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: you alter it by putting a sticker over it, by drawing.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: On it, by Has that always been true?
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: Yes, but I don't think anyone's ever tested. It hasn't
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: been a problem. But it's always been It's always been true, yes.
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: And and like for example of how how much drama
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: this is made, there's an Etsy shop seller who has
• 17:15
  Speaker 5: started making stickers for these, and she said that she
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: would like give that money to public lands. For what
• 17:21
  Speaker 5: she would sell, it's a sticker that would go over
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: Trump's face. She made sixteen thousand dollars in the first month.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: M just just doing this. I don't remember. I think
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: it's it's like a yeah, maybe Pika.
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: We've looked this up on trivia. You can say a
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: Pica or Pika who can anyway can go eat?
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: I can't. I We did this on we addressed that
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: on trivia. Okay, what what what's next year's Are they
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: going to revert next year's pass to the winner? If
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: the duck stamp you like the whole duck stamp competition. Yeah,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: if all sudden the ut was like a duck with
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: like Trump's face on it. Yeah, and he's like, no, no, no,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: that's the that's the duck stands. Yeah.
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: So the Trump administration has not been great to the
• 18:09
  Speaker 5: National Parks. You know, Doge cut a thousand employees last year.
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: They tried to slash the budget by thirty eight percent
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: this year. The Senate rejected that. So Trump not exactly
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: a mascot for the National Parks. I was trying to
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: think of an analogy. It would be like if we
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: had a meat eater radio Live listening pass and then
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: Steve put his face on it.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally understand. That's what it would be like.
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: Or if you let Elon Musk take an axe.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: To radio Live. Yeah.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: And this this drama is gonna get bigger now.
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: The National Parks get forty percent of their visitation between
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: June and August. So there's a lot of folks who
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: are going to be buying their pass in a few months.
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: And it's already it's already been a big deal, but
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: it's it's going to become probably a bigger deal.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: On a related note, someone just shared with me this
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: is this article is a little bit older, and I've
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: been kind of hanging on to it. Someone shared with
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: me an article, an op ed that came out and
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: there was a guest essay called maga Elites who live
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: on their phones are ruining the outdoors and at points
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: that's a hyperbolic headline, but what it points out is
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: we've kind of like we've moved away. We're currently moved
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: away from the old style of like outdoor republican. And
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: you know, like you think about the bushes. Were anglers right,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: they would vacation at like Kenny Bumpport and go fishing. Anyways,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: this article lays out this idea that that rather than
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: rather than trips to Wyoming to fly fish and stuff,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: what we see out of the administration is golfing in Florida.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: And this individual argues that there's been this like perspective
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: shift away from this like tradition of outdoor Republicans into
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: like indoor Republicans. The guy is a research so the
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: guy that wrote it. You should go go check it out.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Listener should check it out. It'll like it'll it'll do
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: one of two things. It'll either make you so mad
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: because you're disagreeing. You'll be like so mad, you'd be
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: mad that we mentioned it, or you'll be so happy
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: we mentioned it because it already aligns with what you think.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: So you can go, no matter who you are, just
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: think about this. No matter who you are, you can
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: go read this and reinforce your opinions and be happi
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: or sad.
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: If you ever read something that everybody agrees on everybody,
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: it's probably not worth reading.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: It'd be like reading the Park Pass. Yeah, that's a joke.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: The guy that wrote it. You get a little suspicious
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: when you read what he does. So he Doctor Lezak
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: is a researcher at the University of Oxford and the
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: University of California, Berkeley who studies the politics of climate change.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: So guess what his biases might be. Another piece of
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: news we got, we're doing this. We're doing a new
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: series called the time Machine. So every month we're taking
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: artwork like see this one here, this goes back to
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: the farthest. This is a time machine artwork of Clovis points,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: archaeological drawings of Clovis points. That's this month, We're gonna
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: hit the Custer Battle, the Battle of the Greasy Grass
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: or the Battle of the Little Big Horn, depending on
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: what side you're on. Pittman Robertson Act. Every month you
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: can come check it out. T shirts, hoodies, time capsule,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: we go back in time. That's the Clovis shirt right there.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: They're all limited to run. Teas and hoodies. Find them
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: at the Meat Eater store website. Okay, moving on to corrections.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: Corrections, Corrections.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: That's from Fiddler around Them. This is our inaugural segment.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Inaugural segment of corrections where we have a correction of
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: the Weak contest sponsored by Takova's. So corrections are like this,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: if you're sitting around like normally in today's political climate,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: and I mean this is when I'm sticking it to
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: both sides on this, people just say stuff that's just
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: wrong and they don't and they know it's wrong. It's
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: like a flex to say stuff that's just wrong because
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like it's like I know it's wrong,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: you know it's wrong, and now you're going to have
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: to live with it. But we try to invite corrections.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: So if we say something that's screwed up, or or
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: we make a mistake or omit the truth or whatever.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: We invite your corrections. We want your corrections so bad
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: about things we're wrong about that If you get the
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: correction of the week, you win a pair of Takova's boots.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: You send yours to the meat Eater podcast at the
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: meeater dot com. We got three to choose from to
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: who wins the Dakova's Boots. Okay, Going in the future,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: we'll only be accepting corrections from the news show. But
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: we're we're accepting corrections otherwise. Right now, episode eight thirty eight,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: someone writes and this is his correction. Episode eight thirty eight,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: Steve is talking about a Hen Turkey making bad calls
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: and uses the term on accident. The corrector goes on
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: to say, as a writer and someone who makes a
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: living speaking, he should know it.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: Is by.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Accident. He goes on to say, fewer things annoy me
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: more than this. If he could please correct this going forward,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: it would make my listening experience. It's much better you
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: don't do something on accident.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: Are we voting at the ending?
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: I'm not voting for this guy, can I I mean,
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: maybe my grammar is off, but shouldn't those quotes be
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: outside of that? Was at his face, in.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: His face, in your face, I got, Steve, I got
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: a little suggestion for you, learn how to put your
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: quotes in the right place. Buddy.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: I think this guy's already lost a pair of boots.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: He's out.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Close call.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: But no, no, no, no, I'm sure that he placed
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: those periods there by accident.
• 24:51
  Speaker 6: So on accident. I'm looking this up and I see
• 24:55
  Speaker 6: that it's like colloquial, But I don't know. Is it
• 24:58
  Speaker 6: a grammar thing I've heard you.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Glocal off of me is wrong? Yeah? Yeah, But I
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: don't think he's gonna win because because he got it,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: he got like back at them, back at them. Okay,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: on mink coals and bad smells, here's a contender, here's
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: a real contender. He's referencing back to episode eight thirty eight. Okay,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: around the thirty one minute mark. In the episode, Steve
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: referenced the two thy twenty coal of mink and Denmark
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: we were talking about. During the COVID pandemic, they found
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: out that mink were harbingers of COVID and they started
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: killing all ranch mink in Denver, in Denmark, and I
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: said that the mink all went to market. My understanding
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: was when I first heard about the cold, I thought
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: it would cause mink prices to skyrocket because there's no
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: more mink. But someone said the inverse was true. It
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: was a massive influx of mink pelts because they had
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: to go pelt all the mink, and so it flooded
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: the market with mink and tanked it. So I said
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: they were all pelted out. This guy says the coal
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: was so hasty and disorganized that it didn't give the
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: opportunity for many of the affected mink farmers to pelt out,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: meaning to skin them all. Given that just before the
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: discussion of the mink coal there was a discussion of
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: various bad smells, you may also be interested in the
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: fact that the coal resulted in millions of mink being
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: buried in mass burial sites, and the fact that they
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: hadn't been skinned meant that some of them started to
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: decompose and bloat and push their way out of the ground,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: which media dubbed zombie mink. I like that that was
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: from Doug.
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: That's a correction of a correction you received, right, because
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: your initial impression was that they wouldn't be skinned. Your
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: initial assumption, Yeah, but that was an internal Yeah, this
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: is that was a leg still action.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Now here is like a great correction that's going to
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: compete with the mink correction. Episode eight twenty nine, at
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: the fourteen minute mark, we're talking about this, okay, we're
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: talking about salmon leaving their natal spawning streams and going
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: back out to the ocean. Or were we talking about
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: one's coming up, coming up? Oh? Okay, pretty sure either way.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: We're talking about fish loss at dams in the Columbia system.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: Oh no, were we talking about smoke going out?
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's smoke going out. Yeah, okay,
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: And we're saying that they're losing that at every dam
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: these fish encounter. They're losing seven to fifteen percent of
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: the population at every dam. And all of his ignorance,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: I say, I can't even do that math Brody does,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: and he says that's over one hundred percent, him being dumb.
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: Jeez, Yeah, that's not how the math works.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Now the MathWorks. This guy writes in It's actually like this,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: if two hundred thousand salmon attempt to make it past
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: the first dam with a fifteen percent mortality rate, there
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: will be one hundred and seventy thousand that make it
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: through to attempt the next dam. After damn number two,
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: at fifteen percent mortality rate, there are one hundred and
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: forty four thousand, five hundred smelt left. If you continue
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: this trend through all eight dams, you are left with
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: fifty four thousand, five hundred salmon. This is a total
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: loss of about seventy three percent at the high end.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: If you use the seven percent mortality rate with this method,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: you end up with one hundred and eleven thousand, nine
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: hundred fish after the eighth dam. So the total mortality
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: rate range is from forty four to seventy three percent,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: not as what I did in my head, more than
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: all of them.
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this is this is probably going to get a
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: correction too. But it's like it's like the reverse of
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: compound interest, whereas if you have money invested, as it grows,
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: it grows more. As it shrinks, it shrinks less in
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: each iteration understood the way, Well that does.
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: Okay, you got a minor and math, you got a doctor.
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: I was actually just thinking we should, we should. It's
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: some point just have a podcast episode with a statistician
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: about draws and just probabilities. Probabilities for the for the
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: Joe Blow Outdoorsman. We can explain things like this, We
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: can explain.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Draws, you know, because that's another thing is there's a
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: lot of confusion about draw odds. That'd be a good
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: idea a hunter.
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: It might not be, it might it might not be
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: a two hour podcast, but it could be a fwop.
• 30:28
  Speaker 6: Please write in the media podcast at the mediator dot com.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: I also need someone from the did you know that
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: there's a did you know that there's a discipline that
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: zoos have zoo swat teams? Okay, and there's like a
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: leading figure in the zoo swat team area, and she
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: made a YouTube video one time about her industry and
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: her training, tactical zoo keeper training. And in this video
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: they're like shooting shot shooting slug guns through woven wire fences.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: She does her interview in front of a bear with
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: a bullet with a bulls eye on his brain.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, would you need to clarify what these swat teams do?
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: It's after people. It's for if monkeys get loose, the
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: lions get.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Or someone.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: They had they had a kid fall into us into
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: a gorilla container and they killed the Gorilla was.
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: Who was that at Cincinnati and Natty.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: So we reached out to people within this zoo swat
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: team community and they're like, no one will talk to you.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: This is a very tight knit community. No one will speak.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: If if X person won't speak, no one will speak.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: But X person has spoken weirdly, but won't if you
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: are in the zoo keeper swap team business, we would
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: love to talk to you on the podcast.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: That does sound like a good one.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: Oh, it'd be a great one. Yeah, But they're like,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: they don't want zoos have to have a zoo keeper
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: swat team. I do know someone, well, I know, but
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: I didn't pan out like no or they call people no.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: I think they got they got tactical trained people who
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: are ready for a lion to get out.
• 32:20
  Speaker 5: I mean also guess that they're wearing multiple hats at
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: the zoo.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like it's like the but they in their
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: mind it's a dirty secret.
• 32:30
  Speaker 6: I think it's more that nobody wants to see animals
• 32:34
  Speaker 6: harmed at the zoo, but if something happens where it's
• 32:37
  Speaker 6: between an animal and a human being, then they'll do
• 32:40
  Speaker 6: what they need to do. So I think that there
• 32:42
  Speaker 6: are people at zoos who are trained lest something get
• 32:46
  Speaker 6: out of control.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't think that's a dirty secret. Someone
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: out there works in this field. I would like to
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: have a serious conversation on the podcast about that field,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: like like, what is the training, what is the probability,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: what are some examples where this has occurred? Why does
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: this go on? I don't feel like it's a thing
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: that they're like, hush, hush, can't talk about that. It
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: just seems weird to me. Some more audience emails.
• 33:16
  Speaker 5: Between we're voting between millions of mink and thousands of salmon.
• 33:20
  Speaker 6: Gosh, it's tough, Like okay, number three did a lot
• 33:23
  Speaker 6: of metal.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Number one, the guy that can't use his quotes right
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: any votes Here's.
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: Well, here's one one way that I'm thinking about this.
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: If a good correction, I would think is one that
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: you would deliver to someone to their face if they're
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: a stranger at a bar and they'd walk away going.
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: If you were at a bar with a stranger and
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: they said it's not on accident, it's by accident, then.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: I would like that guy. You would, yeah, just from
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: the real like Nate Mason would hit me with that
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: that's true.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: It sounds like Nate, but he's kind.
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: Of I like, but it's not really opening your he'd
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: tell you that it's not really opening your eyes.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: You know. You wouldn't go home and be like, you
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: know what I learned today? No, I would tell my
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: wife that I'd wait hert in the middle night. I
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: stand corrected. I can't sleep.
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: I don't think guy number one would even vote for
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: guy number one in this one.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, So and he votes. We got seven voters in
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: the room, guy number one, okay, Guy number two. Not
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: all mink were discard, not all mink werepelled. It out.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: That's I'm voting for that guy. You know what, You're
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: voting for him because the other guy's goofing on you.
• 34:36
  Speaker 8: I'm voting for him because it's like he's he's bringing
• 34:40
  Speaker 8: the like receipts.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: He's got an article.
• 34:42
  Speaker 6: It's like her information articles.
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: I will say, typically when in the news, when somebody
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: calls something a zombie, something like a zombie, dear, I
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: don't like it.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: I like this use of zombie. Okay, I'm voting for him.
• 34:55
  Speaker 6: So the mink guy, we all need to be like
• 34:59
  Speaker 6: closing your eyes.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: Okay. The math the math guy. Goof not Brody, he
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: went some taka boats. We have some people to abstained.
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: Didn't even vote, say in the thing that he's making
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: fun of.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Well, you voted for the mint guy.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: We got a miscount.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Here, Okay, to hanging Chats guy. No sorry, okay, the mink.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Guy, change your vote this lection. This is some hanging
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: chats final final vote, final vote. This is serious this time. Okay,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: the mink guy. Two votes for the Mint Guy, the
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: math guy.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: Steve convinced himself to.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: Steve's undefeated.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Because not Brody. That's why you got my vot. Max
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: al you got a free pair of boots. You can
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: tell us what size and style and all that.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Max.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, quick audience email. We're running behind time. We got
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: a hustle. No one even comment on this.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: H I think we're actually doing pretty good.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: No one even comment on this, guy writes in and
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: the Screwworm episode eight thirty five. You guys relate a
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: story from Kevin Murphy's childhood about about putting an altered
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: bull to work for breeding purposes. What I was talking
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: about is Kevin Murphy. I was driving along with Kevin Murphy.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: He's talking about working at a ranch. I said, what
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: kind of work are you doing at the ranch? And
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: he just related to me a story that they would
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: be able to in the old days. They would surgically
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: redirect a bull's penis so that it was coming out backward.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: You would make this bull wear a big ink blodder
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: on his neck, and you turn him out with your cows.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: He would detect that a cow was in heat and
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: he would mount the cow, but his pecker, being misoriented,
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: would not result in fertilization, but the ink blot would
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: mark the cow as being receptive, at which point a
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: farm boy or whoever would like Kevin you would then
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: rush out and artificially inseminate that cow. I thought that
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: was very, very very interesting. That's great, and just writer
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: writes in, and this listener writes in, in my time
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: spent cowboying out west, we have come to call these
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: heat seeking missiles. He's being metaphoric, he's being poetic. There
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Gomer bulls g O. M. E. R. Golmer, perhaps from
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Gomer Pyle, I don't know, Gomer bulls or teaser bowls.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: And he says that phrase is commonly used in the
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: equine industry as well. Goomer bulls are often selected because
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: they won't cut it as a good breeder bul genetically,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: but are generally easy to work and be around. Advances
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: an animal husbandry have made vast sectomy the primary method
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: for sterilizing these bulls. I could relate. And for the cows,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: we often use paint patches that work like a scratch
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: off huh, rather than lots of ink and paint. The
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: patches can rip off and do a good job showing
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: who's been getting ridden by the gomer bull. If he
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: sees someone with a cowboy hat on backwards at the airport,
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: he points out, he calls them a gomer. He wonders,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: does Kevin Murphy consider himself livestock adjacent e enough to
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: wear a cowboy hat. His hat's not quite a cowboy hat,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: But Kevin Murphy entered cowboy hat validity through an entirely
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: different path. In my view, he could have never looked
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: at an equine or bovine animal and wear a cowboy hat.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: Switching to the news with the news, doctor Randall.
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: Well, there's some exciting developments in the world of Neanderthal
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: or Neanderthal romance. There is a report paper that came
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: out last month in the journal Science that concluded that, like,
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: for a while, we've known that humans and Neanderthals shared
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: DNA and cross bread at some point, but they've now
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: determined that the preponderance of those interactions and couplings had
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: to do with a male Neanderthal and a female Homo sapien.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: This is showing because they can track like mitochondrial DNA
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: and yeah, bunch stuff I don't.
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: I found a term called the Neanderthal desert, which refers
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: to the fact that in human X chromosomes they show
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: much less Neanderthal DNA than the rest of the genome. Okay,
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: and if you're a specialist in this area, I'm gonna
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: misuse a lot of these terms.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: Oh so get your corrections ready.
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: But if I use, say sixty to seventy percent of
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: them correctly, right in and say you did a good job,
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: because that's what I'm meaning before.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: So there there was there were a bunch of theories
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: about why this might be.
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: It could have been like the Neanderthal DNA could have
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: been missing from the X chromosomes because there's some sort
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: of like health risk or something that would just sort
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: of be weeded out through natural selection like it whatever,
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: that that Neanderthal DNA made humans more made the offspring
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: more susceptible to certain diseases.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: But what they did is they went and looked at
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: Neanderthal DNA and they found that Neanderthal DNA on their
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: X chromosomes they actually have like a much higher percentage
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: of human DNA in them, right, because there's there's DNA
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: from both sides. So they kind of reverse engineering at that.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you take an old Neanderthal dead guy bones
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: and be like, well, he's got some Homo sapien lurking
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: in them. Yeah. Uh.
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: And so that's so that essentially that's the explanation now,
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: and there are some there are other reasons that could
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: sort of account for it other than just like sexual preference.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: If this has nothing to do with sexual they're trying
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: to make it like that.
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: Oh no, no, I'm I don't like there's there are
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: some theories. There are some theories about like like you
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: can have whatever sex bias in breeding because of like,
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: uh distribution like whatever, Neanderthal males travel more, something like that.
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: But they've so but basically they've ruled it down to
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: the fact that for whatever reason, Neanderthal males and nandertal
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: female and human females were the most likely, uh like
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: overwhelmingly more likely to couple than say, human male and
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: a Neanderthal female.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: And the pieces that I read about this, I can't
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: remember where I read about the pieces I read. It
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: was like they were sort of getting into the suggestion
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: of like attraction, Yeah, was there an attraction component? I don't.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Earlier I told you what would happen
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: in the future, Yeah, I can, and here I could
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: tell you what happened in the past if you'd like.
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I read another I read another article
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: that was very much leaning in the opposite direction of
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: the attraction to be proved. It was just like, you know,
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: for most of human history, mating resembled what we see
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: in animals, and that there's no consent, right, and it's
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: you know, it's like when you watch a duck with
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: a duck. It's sometimes ugly, but in any event, they
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: they went the opposite direction to be more provocative.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, right, But that there was a there was a
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: coercion element. Yeah, That's where I'm going. Yeah, in understanding this,
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: and I don't know that maybe you guys know this, Uh,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: meal deer and white tail deer will not infrequently interbreed,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: and I believe that when they do that, like they'll
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: they'll have a their offspring don't do well. But I've
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: read that, and I don't know why this is true.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: I've read that it is typically a white tail buck
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: breeding a mule deer dough but I've never read why
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: is it because the other I don't know if it's
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: that the other couplings don't produce offspring, or is it
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: that that's just how it goes and that's just how
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: it goes.
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean. The other really interesting thing that
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: I pulled up when I was doing my deep dive
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: on Neanderthals was like the there's another human species, the
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: denise Evans or Denisovans, who were more they're sort of
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: like the Asiatic version of a Neanderthal, and they split
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: off like around the same time as the Anertales. The
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: Andertales sort of went north and west and the denis
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: Ovans went east. And this is one case where they
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: just found I think, like a fingerbone in a cave
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: in Russia and they discovered that, hey, this is a
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: different type of human and they've sort of done what
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: Heffelfinger's doing with the the Merriam's elk. So they're going
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: back to older fossils that they assumed were just either
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: there's just normal Homo sapiens, and they're identifying them retroactively
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: as denise of ins ordentisil.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: They had been miscategorized. Yeah, yeah, I was reading a
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: book on human genetics. I want to say, like, if
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: I'm wrong, it's still an interesting book. I want to
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: say that it was in this book. Now I wasn't
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: in that book. I was going to say it was
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: in The Seven Daughters of Eve. I can't remember what
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: the hell book. I was reading a book about human genetics.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: In the book, they were talking about that, you know,
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: as the human diaster. As humans spread around the world,
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: there are pockets of the world that have much higher
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Neanderthal DNA concentrations. There are pockets of the world that
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: have no Yeah, like in.
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: Africa, like like sub Saharan Africa and Africa, like down
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: into the African continent.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: Neanderthals weren't down there. They were a European predominant European
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: Asian Middle Eastern species. So people that remained and that
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: remained in Africa, they don't have introgression from Neanderthals. He
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: points out that this is a very this is a
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: very hot loaded subject. And he said that there's even
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: been a reluctance, he claims in this book and I
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: can't remember the guy's damn name, he claims that there's
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: been a reluctance to talk about what populations around the
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: world have a lot of neanderthal because it would be
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: viewed as disparaging these people. Yeah, and so he said,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: it's like it's become like a sort of hush hush
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: subject because because it's it's uh, people would review it,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: view it as derogatory.
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it is interesting. I think like our understanding neanderthalis
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: has changed a lot. And now he recognized that they
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: were they buried their dead, and they wore jewelry, and
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: they used tools and lit fires and things like that,
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: and probably had language, but dove for shellfish. Yeah, but
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: for a long time, obviously there was this the sort
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: of I mean, I think what Western science did for
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: a long time is like, look at something else and
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: assume it's lesser than right if it's not Homo sapiens,
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: or if it's not you know, previously like if it's
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: not European, it's it's sort of on this order of
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: being right, and there's like this progressive view of these things.
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: But now I think it's like the Neanderthal DNA story
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: is even more interesting because, like I was reading something
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: the other day that if you have, they found in
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: one study that people with more Neanderthal DNA or a
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: certain sequence of Neanderthal DNA were more susceptible to bad
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: COVID outcomes. So it shows like how you know, like
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: some chunks of Neanderthal DNA could go missing over time
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: because for whatever reason, it makes people susceptible to certain infections.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: But or if they had bad COVID restrictions in their
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: commune authorities are like no going outside of your cave.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: All their Amazon boxes are laying around unopened. I'll tell
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: you what happened, ready, Yes, I think that Neanderthal groups
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: would now and then overpower Homo sapient groups. They would
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: kill the they would kill the males, and they would
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: keep the females as concubines. That's exactly what happened.
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: I can't dispute that. You ready to move on, I
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: don't know that these guys are not Neanderthal guys.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: Don't you bet? That's good news?
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: All right?
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: Can I tell you my favorite Neanderthal little thing? Sure.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: I was reading a book about in the Anerthales had
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: a lot to do with the Neanderthals, and this guy
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: was talking about when they exhume all these remain Neanderthal remains,
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: they see a like a predict suite of injuries on
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: the bones. They were showing them to physicians, and there
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: was a physician who had treated a lot of bull
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: riders in his career, and he pointed out that, Wow,
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: the types of injuries I'm seeing are very representative of
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: what I see on bull riders. Out of this came
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: this idea and this guy wrote about it that they
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: practiced a confrontational style of hunting. Yeah, that they mix
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: it up.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: You're not saying that bull riders are like Neanderthals.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: No, I'm saying that he was like the kinds of
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: breaks and lesions he saw reminded him of what he
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: sees from bull riders getting trampled. Gord.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you have to have a little bit of
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: a Neanderthal mindset to get on a two thousand pounds
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: animal and they.
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: Should research the genetics there.
• 50:07
  Speaker 8: What I would like to know is if it went
• 50:09
  Speaker 8: the other way, did Homo sapiens do the same thing.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: Well, that's a bunch of lady, a bunch of female
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: Homo sapiens rated.
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: Would do that to I mean, that's that is one
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: theory as far as because it's only like a one
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: way path that Randall's talking about, right Like.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, understood, I'm not that good. I can't tell you.
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean there there is like at some point
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: human behavior changed, because that that's one of the explanations
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: at least for the extinction of the Anderthals is there's
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: no like discernible physical change in humans over that period
• 50:54
  Speaker 4: of time. So whatever when we went from cohabitation to
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: once he's being left. Uh, there's a change in culture. Yep,
• 51:05
  Speaker 4: that explains it. Uh, we can move on from Neanderthals,
• 51:09
  Speaker 4: or I can offer one more factory please.
• 51:12
  Speaker 9: Uh.
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: The old man of La Chappelle famous Neanderthal remains that
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: was used for a long time to sort of imagine
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: what they looked like. Ah, for a while they thought
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: that this is like the best model of a Neanderthal,
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: and then at some point someone pointed out, this is
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: like an old guy with some serious back injuries and
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: a lot of arthritis from the propotental hunt. He probably
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: had a more upright posture. If you can imagine, like
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: if we discovered some you know, if we're aliens and
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: we came in. This is the way it was put
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: on one thing. It's like we're aliens and we arrived
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: on Earth and we found Joe O'Neills or yeah, or
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: like and we're like, my god, they're all seven feet tall.
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: Or if we found like some some decrep it, you know,
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: old person who watched walks all hunched over. It's just
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: you jump to some conclusions. So that's one of the
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: the sort of changes in our thinking as we recognize
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: this is probably not the guy we should go on
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: for a benchmark.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know if there's any Melville readers out there,
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: Herman Melville readers, but a neander tall expert is this
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: podcast white whale. We just cannot find one.
• 52:28
  Speaker 6: We have a bunch of emails in I found some
• 52:31
  Speaker 6: and they are too busy or have declined. So it's
• 52:34
  Speaker 6: a whole we have to find the best.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: If I had a zoo keeper swat team person standing
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: here and a Neanderthal person standing here, I would go Neanderthal.
• 52:44
  Speaker 6: Maybe maybe don't get like a bunch in a row
• 52:47
  Speaker 6: like now, like if we if we get multiple ones,
• 52:50
  Speaker 6: like we have one and then the next week we
• 52:52
  Speaker 6: have another Neanderthal guy.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: When I was on Theovon's show, He's got a huge show.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: On Theovon Show, I said, Hey, I'm looking for a
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: Neanderthal expert. So I thought I'll reach new people because
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: like there's like the Hosers that listened to our thing
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: and that wasn't working. So I thought I'll talk to
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: I'll talk to the.
• 53:10
  Speaker 4: Still nothing that was JK, Phil, can you pull up
• 53:15
  Speaker 4: my assets really quick? Oh yeah, sure, Sorry, I forgot this.
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: This is uh this does not use this the whole time.
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: Well, I forgot about it just until now. Uh, this
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: is a recreation of a Neanderthal. And then if you
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: go home with that guy, yeah, if you go to
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: the Natural History Museum in Vienna, they have a thing
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: that scans your face and renders you into any number
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: of hominid species. So, Phil, if you'll continue to my
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: ex side, that's what I look like as a neanderthal,
• 53:45
  Speaker 4: sort of spread my eyes apart and added a more
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: prominent brow ridge. But you can see my mustache on
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: the bottom is still red.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: I'm yeah, yeah, I'm sure like your bug eye.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I can't.
• 54:03
  Speaker 5: Upgrade.
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: Didn't you say there was a like a red hair?
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: I believe?
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Moving on, Yan is going to bring us now
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: about Yan is going to talk to us now about
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: Catalina Island mule deer eradication program, which we've touched on
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: periodically over the years, just as a as a recap,
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: We're gonna find out where things stand now as a recap.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: There's an island off the coast of California called Catalina Island.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: It has the map, It is hosted, It has hosted
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: a number of non native species over the years. There
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: was a there was a herd of American buffalo that
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: were brought out there for a film. They are there,
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: but the but there is a large population of mule
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: deer on Catalina Island. They were not historically on Catalina Island,
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: but they were historically just in shore for Catalina Island.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: So brings up this question are they native? Are they not?
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: People want to get rid of them. They don't want
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: to get rid of them. So over the years, we've
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: often mentioned various things about they're expanding hunting opportunities for
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: mildeer on Catalina Island, they are retracting hunting opportunities for
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: milder on Catalina Island. I've never even fully understood it.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: Giannis is here to tell us where it stands now,
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: because there's been significant buzz yes.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: To cut to the chase. When we're all done here
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: in the next five or ten minutes, I will still
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: not fully understand it. No one probably else in this
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: room will fully understand it. Yeah. I signed up to
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: cover this little this little story yesterday, less than twenty
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: four hours ago, and I thought, oh, this will be easy. Well,
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: once I dove in, I see that this is one
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: of those that Steve likes to say makes its own gravy.
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: So I'll try to give like a oh overview of
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: what's happened and really just state facts, and then I'm
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: hoping that you guys can sort of start then, you know,
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: asking questions. We might be able to get into the
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: stuff that doesn't seem so factual about this story. Like
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: Steve said, it's Catalina Island, it's about seventy five square miles.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: Some important things you need to know. It's eighty eight
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: percent roughly private land, and that land is managed by
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: the Catalina Island Conservancy, which is pretty much an organization,
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: a nonprofit private conservation org that is made by and
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: made up of the people that own the land. Does
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: that make sense, Yeah, the family, the regularly family. Yeah,
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: they definitely have a lot of influence. They basically if
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: you they also own like most of the businesses that
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: operate on that island. I think there's there's like four
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: to five thousand people that live on that island. If
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: you live there and work there, you most likely work
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: for them in somewhere or another and rent from them
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: maybe probably, you know. So that in itself gets tricky
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: because people want to protect their livelihoods, right, and then
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: talking and saying things that you know might cause problems.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: You may or may not want to do that.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're living in a company town. You don't trash
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: the company. Yeah.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: So we have this conservancy, this Calleyan Island Conservancy. They
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: want to restore the island. I think that their motto
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: is basically to like like keep the do the best
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: they can be the best stewards of that land through recreation,
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: habitat management one other thing. But there they want to
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: make it be as those it was before. Kin they're
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: sort of like what I would call island purists.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: Like restore the native vegetation. So you're looking at it,
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: you're looking like what it looked like a long time.
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: Ago, exactly before the deer they had, Like you mentioned,
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: all these other animals. Ferl goats were a big one.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: They were also cattle that were once run on Catalina
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: Island by the Wrigley family, like it was a business.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: They've kind of gotten rid of all these other grazers
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: and animals, but the thing left are these deer that
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: are still and you can see there's there's pictures online
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: where you can see enclosures and you can see the
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: line like often we see in Mexico when we're hunting
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: coups deer, right where the cattle have been on one
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: side of the fence and they haven't been on the
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: other side of the fence, and one side looks scorched
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: earth and the other side looks pretty lush and green
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: right and tall grass. You can see images like that
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: online if you look for them.
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: It's where they got deer fenced out or in exactly.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: So the conservancy believes is saying that at this point,
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: like they've had a hunting program on the island for
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: twenty some years, and again this hunting program is run
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: through the Rickley family or this Catalina Island Conservancy, Right,
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: they believe that it's not doing enough to suppress the
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: deer numbers to make a difference in letting the habitat rebound.
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: They want to see more of these sort of lush
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: forbes brush living there and less of that cheat grass,
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: non native landscape going there. And they believe that the
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: deer browsing is causing that. Right, they're eating the stuff
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: that they're preferring that stuff, and they're letting this other
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: stuff grow more of They have for years been trying
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: to get a permit that basically allows them to do
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: massive calling efforts and take out as many as these
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: deer as they want, because again they feel like the
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: hunting program is not doing doing the trick.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: Can I wedge because you're trying to go just facts?
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: Can I wedge it a not just fact thing? Yeah?
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: Do you mind? Because I know that? Can I be
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: the guy that does not pay. I want to choose
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: my words carefully here. A common refrain among people who
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: have attempted to do a meald Your Hunt on Catalina
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: Island is that they do their best to make it impossible.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: Who's today the Conservancy likes to like this is just
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: a viewpoint that is expressed to me, is that they
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: pay lip service to a hunting program, but make the
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: hunting program they set it up to fail. Is a
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: common refrain among friends of mine who've tried to participate
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: in the meald Your Hunt is they set it up
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: to not work.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's disingenuous, and it's been all it's been all
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: over the place as far as who can hunt there,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: how much they can hunt there. They they've had years
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: where it's only been a couple hundred tags. They've had
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: years where it's been a thousand tags. They've had years
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: where only locals can hunt, only Californians can hunt, and
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: then other years where you can't have non residents coming
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: in and hunting. When they had that, it wasn't very
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: well publicized, so a lot of people didn't know, and
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: then those that knew were sort of keeping it hush
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: husts because it's like oh, we got a good thing going,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: like we're not going to tell all of our friends
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: about this great hunting opportunity and it.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: Want to spot burn eradication program, which is expected.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: So kind of where we are now is that they
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: have the Kellean Island Conservancy've gotten to a point where
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: they they got this permit to basically do the calling
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: that they want to do and it's a five year
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: program and they're like they're allowed to do it. They
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: to this point. I talked to Charles Whitwam Whitwam this morning.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: He does he's the howl for wildlife guy. He's sort
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: of in a accidental wake, ended up making a documentary
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: called Killing Catalina that's about this subject and if you
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: want to know why, go and watch it. It's very educational.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: You'll learn a lot about what's going on there. But
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: he's the guy I figured that Conan would know without
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: talking to somebody that works for the Catalina Island Conservancy.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: He's the guy that's probably dove into this the deepest.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: Right at this point, they haven't killed any deer that
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: he knows of, but they're like they're supposed to start sometime.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: Soon, like a helicopter program, not a helicopter program.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: That was the first thing that was put out there.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: That's how they got rid of the goats in the past,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: and there was a lot of public outcry against doing
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: that because they had supposedly, you know, three legged goats,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: wounded goats walking around and it didn't.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: Look so they couldn't sharpshoot them as well.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: Exactly. So now the ideas that you would have been
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: bringing government sharp sharpshooters and and do the killing the locals,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: and a lot of hunters, conservation orgs and interestingly people
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: like the Humane Society of the of California have bonded.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: Together strange bedfellows, yes, yes, to oppose this.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: And actually, as of I think yesterday, there's a press
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: release release today that I can just give you the
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: the real high look at it. Here is that a
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: coalition of hunting, conservation, SPORTSMS advacy organizations follow the lawsuit
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: challenging the California Department official while let approval of a
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: plan to exterminate the up to two thousand mule deer
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: on Catalina Island. So like Spari Club International is a
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: part of that, A bunch of California's you know smaller
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: orgs are there? How for wildlife? Can I ask it?
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 8: Like, Yeah, what it's obvious why someone like group like
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 8: the Humane Society would be against it? What are are
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 8: these hunting groups against it because they're about to lose
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 8: hunting opportunity?
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: Like what are they?
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 5: Like?
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: What it I think that they're against it because and
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: from what I gather is because it's a it's a
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: in their minds, it's a bad way to manage wildlife.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: And mostly because they didn't go through the proper channels
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: process these steps to get this permit. Some stuff was
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: fast tracked. There was like a bill introduced last year
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: that got through and Lo and Behold, sponsor of this
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: bill are related and interconnected with this Calalian Island Conservancy,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: and so some things happened to help make this permit
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: kind of smooth right through, which from what I research
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: is that they've been trying to get this permit for
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: fifteen years in California Department Fishing Wildlife has been like, no,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: you guys don't have the science to prove that you
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: guys need to be doing this, because that's where it
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: gets tricky is that they basically have a private island
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: they control it, but they don't control the animals, sure,
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: because the animals are owned by the staple California.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: How do the locals feel about the deer?
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: They and what by locals, what do you mean though, Well,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: there's people that live on the island, right, Yeah, but
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: they live on the property of the people that want
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: to kill the deer.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: Sure, but interestingly, yeah, they're opposed to the killing of the.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: People that are renting from the family that owns the thing.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so it is.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 6: Of about four thousand.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's there's two of them for each dear.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: They actually passed in the last year. I don't know
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: if you'd call it legislation or a zoning thing that,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: but basically within the town of Avalon, which must be
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: like incorporated and so that it's been there, Yeah, it's
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: it's the other twenty percent of the island that isn't
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: controlled by Callian Isron Conservancy. They basically passed a law
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: where you cannot shoot or discharge firearms any within those limits.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: And of course that is where most of these deer
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: live or that's where all the people are.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: Though, Like when you come in there, it's like a
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: beautiful little bay and a port. Yeah, it's beautiful, real
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: like real like walk around, get an ice cream cone
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: kind of vibe.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but they they made it so that they're not
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: going to be able to kill every single deer off
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: the island because it's basically the ones now that are
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: in town cannot be eradicated.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: Has anyone Are there any real studs? I'm not talking
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: about the townspeople. Are there any studs on this island
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: or the danks?
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: You know, just a few images that I saw, nothing
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: that would fall fall into like nice Colorado mule.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 3: I looked in, but it's not like a destination mule.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: Dudes aren't like it's not like Anelope Island.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing like that.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: No, no, here, I mean, I'm gonna stay real obvious
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: on this one. It brings up an interesting question of
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: how far from the native source do you need to
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: be where it becomes like irrefutably an exotic mm hmm.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: So like take something like nil Ghai in South Texas,
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: right the Indian Like I think I think they're predominantly
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: from like the Indian subcontinent. Am I right about that? Yeah? No, no, no, yeah,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: I think so to Texas when I look at it,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: when I spin the old Globe. I'm like, that is
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: a non native from way far away, Like that has nothing. Yeah,
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: that has nothing to do with that, do you know
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: what I mean? Nothing to do with that. That's its
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: own little thing. Their fate, the fate of the nil
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: guy in South Texas is not related to sort of
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: like the fate of Nilghai as a wild species in general.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: When you get to a situation like this where you
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: can look and see, you can look and see where
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: they're from.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 5: It's twenty two miles from Los Angeles, it's the Catalina Island.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: You can look and see where they're native.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it wouldn't be impossible for a deer to make
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: that swim.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 8: Oh look at Southeast Alaska. You see those blacktails swimming around.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's like it does bring up interesting question.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: I'd be like, Okay, they came in with people by dude,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: it's just right. Their native grange is like right there.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: You can't rule out that one hasn't made the swim.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 8: But it is an island, which, like island ecosystems, operate
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 8: differently than a mainland.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: I'd like to refer I'd like to refer listeners to
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: I can't remember the name of it. David Kwalman's book
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: An Island Biogeography, which explains all this kind of stuff,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: why islands are so special, why do mammals shrink and
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: lizards get huge, all that kind of stuff on islands.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know, man, I'm a real fence sitter on
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: this one. It's kind of on the side of them.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: Here's why I'm on the side of the mule deer.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Go ahead, I don't know.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: Something else, just to PLoP in there. Right there's this
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: buffalo herd. I think the highest number I ever got
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: was like up to sixteen hundred or something like that.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: It's been there roughly the same amount of time as.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: These mule deers came in to film a movie.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right now, approximately one hundred there.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: They think there's roughly two thousand of these deer, or
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: at least that's what the Callian Island Conservancy, the outfit are,
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: and a lot of the locals and people that have
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: hunted there. I think there's a lot less than two
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: thousand deer.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: Could someone do the math if you go how many
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: how many buffalo one hundred? We'll say it, so one
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: hundred at let's say twelve hundred pounds, and how many
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: deer two thousand, two thousand at let's say one hundred
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: and twenty pounds. Oh wait, one hundred at what one
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: hundred at twelve hundred. Someone's gonna write into correction about this.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 4: I'm going to say we're getting on Bang's ground.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: Here one hundred at twelve hundred.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 8: Especially since buffalo are grazers and er uh yeah, mule
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 8: were are browsers.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 5: With those numbers, would be one hundred twenty thousand pounds
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 5: of biomass for the bison versus two hundred and forty
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 5: thousand for the mule deer.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: Mule deer's double twice as much bio mass and mule deer. Okay,
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: going by those numbers, correction, I don't think that's going
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: to get corrected.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: The buffalo are just a little less sort of iconic
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: of the island than the sorry a little bit more
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: than the deer. The deer are like very much a
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: part of it. Locals love them, people love to go
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: there and see them. But the buffalo are just a
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: little bit cooler. There's you know, murals of buffalo, there's
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: weather veins of buffalo, like that's it's very much a part.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: Of them when I went. When I went there, it
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: was for this reason to check the buffalo, but when
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: I'm not writing about it. But I went there to
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: write about it, but I never got to it.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, did I was I researching us going to do
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: a hunt there at some point. But anyways, they've all
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: been sterilized. So you would think that you couldn't keep
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: these buffalo going, right, or they wouldn't if they're all
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: sterilized and they're not going to reproduce, they're going to
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: blink out. They're eventually going to blink out.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: We're not gonna sterilize two thousand deer.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: When that question was posed to the main scientists of
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: the conservancy, she had a very, uh, lackluster, vague answer
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: as to what's going to happen to those bison where
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: it just at that moment, you really feel like she's
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: a mouthpiece for this other, you know, thing that's going on.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: She's not necessarily in control because if you're going to
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: take out two thousand deer, take out the hunter bison too, right,
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: and just like don't have any of that kind of
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: grazing going on on the landscape, right, But because the
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: locals and the tourists and everything, there's even that much
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: more you know, probably comes down to money and you know,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: attached to it. They're like, well, maybe we'll keep them
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: around kind of a little bit. Now, we're not gonna
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: get rid of them completely. Well, like I said, it's
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: just it's just thick with uh with sort of all
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: these just like little ideas of what's going on. Who's thinking?
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 9: What?
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: Why are they talk about.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 8: What they're gonna do, Like they're just gonna let the
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 8: deer lay after they like, they're not gonna get used.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: No, yeah, there's no plan for it. It's not like
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: they're going to donate at all to a food bank.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: So crystal ballet for me, based on your you're based
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: on your twenty four hours of NonStop research, ye all night,
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: Crystal ballet for me if you had to take just
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: if we're gonna go, if we're gonna go to a
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: prediction market thing and make a bet. Yeah, And I said,
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: and in five years, uh, you know, in five years,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: Catalina Island will have no meal deer Like whatever, how
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: are you gonna bet on it?
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: I think that they will have mule. I think the
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: main thing that's like a big sticking point to anybody
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: that sort of tries to figure the story out is
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: that it looks like they don't actually have a good
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: survey of how many deer on the island. Some people
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: are like there's five hundred. Some people are saying there's
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: twenty two hundred. No one really knows, and so you
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: can't really go anywhere. You can't extrapolate from there if
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: you don't know exactly how many deer on this island,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: right and you think they can be able to figure
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: that out. I'm imagining that because it's getting so much
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: press that this lawsuit was filed, the California Divisional Wildlife
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: is going to Fish and Game whatever they call themselves.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: They're gonna walk back.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're gonna walk back that permit and gonna say, hey,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: hold on, we need to do this the right way.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: We're like, we're here to manage wildlife. Let's do it
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: the right way. And so I think that it's probably
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: gonna come back to a private lands management permit, which
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: is what they're operating under now. And I had to
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: have a hunting program.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: What they need to do is they need to go
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: get take one of them big jets with a lot
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: of seats in it. Go to Kasanovia, Wisconsin. Put everybody
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: from Casanova, Wisconsin on that jet, and fly him out
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: to Catalina for a big mooch, A big old I'm
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: talking of big mooch.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 4: I feel like lemmings getting pushed it out.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 3: They'd all just run into town where they're saved.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: Doug's in charge. Doug Durant gets a map of the island,
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: he gets his laser pointer. You sit here, you sit here,
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: at ten, you do this. At ten twenty two, you
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: get out of your blind.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 6: And do this.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: Big mooch sounds like fun, a little whittle him down.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: But here's my final take on it. Not that it matters.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: My final take on it is since like a thing
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: I would factor in. You have so many areas you
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: can point to where mule deer are not doing good.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: The island is so close to native meal deer range.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: I would take these two things and I would say,
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: we have a lot of areas where mildeer are not
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: doing good. This is sort of like honorary native meal
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: deer range. Because it's so close. It's a bright spot
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: for meal deer. They're doing well. There, it's more valuable
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: to have it's more valuable to have reassurance about the
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: long term ability of meal deer. I don't know. Maybe
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: I'm wrong about this. Maybe it could be a potential
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: source location for future reintroductions. I don't know. If I
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: was emperor of the planet, I would say, lower the
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: numbers through greater public hunting opportunities, get lower the numbers down.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: But let's set aside talk of eradication.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 8: It's also a population that's more than likely pretty safe
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 8: from CWD.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean, if they were careful.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: What if I said it came at the cost of
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: losing several you know, in native endemic species that only
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: are found what are the species floral species that are
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: only found on that island and.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: They're still there after one hundred years of grazing. Yeah,
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: and have they done? Is everything they could do to
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: uh recede? And like I'd had to know more, I'm
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: just spitballing here. Yeah, we got to move on.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying if I'm just throwing that in there, like,
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: would you still say, hey, we really need this little
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: little micro No, I.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: Would factor that in if there was a chance that
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: there was an endemic plant species that was going to
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: blink out and go extinct. And by and by having
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: no meal deer, I knew that I could save that
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: endemic plant species. And it was that binary that would
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: make my decision much more complicated, and I would probably
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: tip toward the endemic plant species. Keep an eye on
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: the story for us, you honest.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: I will. There'll be plenty.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: Y'all would win a pair of boots.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 5: I haven't got to go yet.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 4: Well, you only, I'm the only point of comparison you have,
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 4: So I'm trying to personally.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: Well, you know who's gonna be out, bro what you're
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: gonna We're gonna have to hold the Coloradin's can't embarrass
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: themselves anymore until they did. Story.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 3: We running out of town.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: We're gonna punt over dispenser for Rattlesnake Round Up Roundup This.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 5: Weekend, March thirteenth through the fifteenth is the sixty eighth
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 5: annual World's largest Rattlesnake Round Up in seat Sweetwater, Texas.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 5: It's been going on since nineteen fifty eight. Not even
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 5: COVID stopped them from having a couple of their festivals.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: That's great.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 5: There's a parade, a carnival, a gun and coin show, dance,
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 5: guided rattlesnake hunts that you can sign up for. Those
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 5: cost seventy five dollars to go catch one cooking competition
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 5: with categories such as brisket, ribs, chili beans, Bloody Mary's,
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 5: and of course rattlesnake. But the big attraction is the
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 5: rattlesnake hunting contest and hunters they'll spend weeks or months
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 5: catching rattlesnakes that will then get entered into the content.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: You can stock them up ahead of time far in
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: advance the fishing.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 5: No, it's it's unclear to me. It seems as though
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 5: you need to keep them alive to enter that, but
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 5: I couldn't confirm that with anything. But you need to
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 5: keep these snakes alive.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 8: Are they managed in any way like they are states rattlesnakes,
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 8: like there's a limit, they're managed as some kind of like.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 5: They tell your game species on the website. You need
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 5: to have a permit from the State of Texas whatever
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 5: you know, like a small game permit whatever their equivalent is,
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 5: your collection permit of some sort uh. And and for
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 5: the first three thousand pounds of rattlesnakes brought in the
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 5: Sweetwater jc's will pay twenty dollars per pound for those rattlesnakes.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: What do they want them for?
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 5: We'll get to it, we'll get to it. But anyways,
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 5: twenty dollars a pound like that. It was five dollars
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 5: per pound in two thousand and six, so that's a
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 5: fifteen dollars increase. And if you were doing inflation, that
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 5: five dollars would be about nine dollars today. They've doubled
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 5: even if you account for inflation, and what they're paying
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 5: for the next five thousand pounds, they pay fifteen dollars
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 5: per pound, and then they stop paying altogether if they
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 5: have more than eight thousand pounds of rattlesnakes brought in?
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: Is that is that the Phils put up a photo?
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: Is that guy so confident in his snake chaps? He's
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: just standing in among those rattles.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 5: Seems as though he is there's there's rattlesnakes on top
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 5: of rattlesnakes, and he is within center, and.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: He's like, my chaps are good.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 4: Well, it looks like he's just flicking one off his
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 4: boot there.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, how many difference he should be done there one year.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 4: No, thank you, it's just terrible.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 5: The big snake guy, it is just the western diamondback
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 5: that you can looks like there's a different species in there.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 5: First prize. First prize for bringing in the most pounds
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 5: of snakes is one thousand dollars. The longest snake gets
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 5: five hundred dollars. All time record is an eighty one
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 5: and a half inch rattlesnake.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: What's that come out?
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 3: Two and feet almost seven?
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 5: A little less than correction. Their website has results from
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 5: the last decade, and from looking at these, it's clear
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 5: that there is a Sweetwater rattlesnake hunting goat. Andy Lee
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 5: has won five of the last nine contests, including in
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 5: twenty twenty four and twenty twenty five.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: That guy on the show, what's his name? Andy Lee?
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: Can you get him on the show?
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 5: I've got some more details for you on Andy. Last
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 5: year he brought in six hundred and fifty one pounds
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 5: of rattlesnakes, which beat second place by thirty nine pounds.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 5: Here's some good journalism, Steve. When I googled Andy's name,
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 5: I learned that he owns a pest control business in Texas.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: He's got a hot line. He is double dipping.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 5: First someone pays him to come a snake from under
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 5: their porch, and then he goes and enters it. In
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 5: this context, this.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: Does not dissuade me from wanting them on the show.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 5: No, I'm with you. But last year, last year, with
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 5: that winning weight, if he would have entered it in
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 5: the first three thousand pounds, he would have made fourteen
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 5: thousand dollars.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 3: How many snake does it say how many snakes? It
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 3: does fifty?
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 5: It's It doesn't say it's you. It's always measured in pounds.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 5: On their webs there is right there there there he is.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 5: That's his the business he owns Andy Lee, who's was
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 5: his wife. Then they owned the business together. Now Steve asked,
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 5: what happens to these snakes? They're registered, then they're skinned, battered,
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 5: deep fried and sold at the concession stands.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: You're not eating up that many snakes. Phil's got a
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: picture of that.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 5: They said they're eating them there.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: They're going through that whole batch of snakes.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 3: And the skins gone to a separate market.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 5: It doesn't say what they do with the skins. Phil's
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 5: got a picture of how all them skinning in a
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 5: line there?
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: Look at that?
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah, making some very fishing.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 5: On average, there are four thousand pounds of rattlesnakes brought
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 5: in each year. The record was set in twenty sixteen
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 5: when twenty five thousand pounds of diamondbacks were captured. There
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 5: must have been something with the weather that year that
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 5: just made a boom of rattlesnakes. Now here's the most
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 5: amazing part.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 5: I found a quote from Texas A and M in
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 5: two thousand and six that said they estimate the roundup
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 5: captures one percent of the state's entire western diamondback population
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 5: every year, every year.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: But they have I wonder have you Have you encountered
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: what sort of harvest rate, like a state would have
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: deer harvest, and they're gonna kill ten percent, eleven percent,
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: twelve percent of the state's deer. So I don't know
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: about the fecundity of rattlesnakes, but I'm guessing one percent
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: as well within recovery.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 5: I imagine if this is the world's largest version of
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 5: this and it still exists, then yeah, they're not worried
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 5: about hurting the western diamondback population. In Texas if it
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 5: continues on now it's very popular in the community. They
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 5: expect twenty five thousand visitors this year. Again, it's this
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 5: weekend that pumps an eight million dollars to the local economy.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 5: So go check it out if you live in Central Texas.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 3: What's up with the bloody handprints.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 4: On the wall?
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: Well, I think they're taking them hands that are all
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: bloody and pressing them on that wall.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well I get that part. Interesting.
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 4: It's amazing, beautiful y.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: It's like little cave paintings. Yeah, oh yeah, I'll say it.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 5: Sixty eighth annual World's Largest Rattlesnake Round Up Sweetwater, Texas Central.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 5: Excellent reporting, thank you they did best or now.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: No, I think it's I mean, there the quality of
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: the reporting delivery, but it just didn't make as much gravy. Okay,
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: I'm still third. It's what what is it when you
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: just don't even get mentioned, like pictures at the at
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: the Olympics, you got the gold, silver, and bronze, you know,
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: but they don't even let a guy get on the You.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 3: Got to compete.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, Randal, I'm just joking, man. I'll thought
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: I thought you did a great job. Maybe I could
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: tilt the scales a little more. So.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 5: Back to the Trump America the beautiful card, the Center
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 5: of Biological what is it, the Center for Biological.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: Diversity, anti hunting organization.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 5: They are suing him for doing that. They started that
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 5: lawsuit in December. I reached out to them for an
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 5: update on the lawsuits.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 3: I was going to talk about those folks in my
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 3: Their update is.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 5: They don't have an update yet, but they're working on
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 5: it behind the scenes, so we don't know what the
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 5: fate of By the time they wrap it up, this
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 5: card will no longer even be good.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: So should they do a lot of postures understood a.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 5: But what what would say best case scenario for them
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 5: happens and they win this lawsuit against the Trump administration,
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 5: then we're going to reissue I don't know, a thousand cards.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 4: Well maybe someone who chooses to buy their pass in
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 4: December of this year.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: They have a People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: esque Wing Center for Biologically. They use some of the
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: same type of people to think up campaigns that they're like,
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: oh no, no, no, it's not that we'll win, it's
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: just that it will be reported on this is right
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: in their wheelhouse.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 5: For what they would do is have a lawsuit like this.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: All right, Brody, I'm down real sorry buddy.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 3: No, but you did say they do things to posture.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 8: They the Center for Biologic Biological Diversity, like they got
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 8: something done in Colorado, which is not good.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: Next, well, it's.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: Not done done.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 3: It's not done done.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: But you think it's going to pass It already passed. No,
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: but you think it's gonna become law.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 3: But it already. They're just in the rule making process now.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I thought the rule making process would get
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: so like that it wouldn't go, or people were thinking
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: it wouldn't go.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 3: We'll see, we'll report on it next week.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: That one needs time.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 4: Couldn't have scripted it any better?
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that one needs time? Yeah, okay, going over for
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: our final story?
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: Is our final story?
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, going over for a final story. I
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: heard a very interesting thing recently. My brother Danny up
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: in Alaska has a buddy. My brother Danny works for
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: the US Fish and Wildlife Service. He has a colleague
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: who is a he'll he'll explain what he does. Well.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: I was hearing about learning about that one when imports
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: come into the country. Right, there's a there's a customs
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: process around processing imports, and and here's where you would
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: look for like illegal wildlife imports, meaning things you could
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: imagine like someone opens up a crate and they're like,
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: good lord, it's full of rhino horns, Like that's gonna
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: be a problem, right, But there are other things that
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: you might not know about that that customs official look at.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: And US Fish and Wildlife Service when it comes to
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: wildlife issues, that is there, that is their turf, okay.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: And I was learning about the thing I had no
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: idea that it even existed, is that people make fake
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: eyelashes out of mink fur. And since it's a wildlife product,
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: it needs to be imported in a certain way. And
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: I was learning about how wildlife officials will detect find
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: and seese incoming fake eyelashes made of mink, which I
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: feel are being worn by people who have no idea
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: what they're wearing. Definitely not over to our guests, ready, Phil, Yeah, God,
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: you didn't see that coming.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 7: And I thought there'll be a little bit more to
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 7: do before we bring him in.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: But hey, he's here.
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 6: Yeah, Like you know, women and fake eyelashes.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 4: History of that.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: But that's okay, Brian Olen. How's it going.
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 10: O, good morning, Yeah, it's going well.
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 11: I guess I should have worn some some eyelashes today,
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 11: so I could have demonstrated that for you, but I
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 11: didn't didn't include that in my morning routine.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: So you're forgiven. Lay this out for us, like like
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: layout for us, what form these things take, how you
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: know about them, where they come from. Whatever you got for.
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 10: Us, gotcha.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 11: So yeah, I didn't know about them. Not surprisingly before
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 11: I started this job about five years ago. We all
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 11: know about fake eyelashes, but there is a pre significant
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 11: quantity of them being made from mink, certainly also made
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 11: from like silk and other synthetic materials. But they looked
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 11: like just like a half moon or crescent moon shape,
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 11: like adhesive strip with individual pieces of mink care I
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 11: guess just attached or glued on.
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: There.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 11: They're when you like do some research on them and
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 11: say that they're they're more fluttery looking a little more
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 11: naturally looking, the the mink hare ones versus the synthetic ones.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 11: So there's there's some ways you can kind of once
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 11: you look at five or six hundred of these things,
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 11: you can kind of tell them tell them apart pretty easily.
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 11: But the mink care kind of tapers to a point,
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 11: whereas like the synthetic materials are more like truncated and chopped.
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 10: You can kind of tell that with the naked eye.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 10: But so, yeah, we're inspecting these.
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 11: Kind of you know, it comes and goes in waves,
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 11: but daily across the US and we're here in Anchorage, Alaska,
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 11: so most of our imports are coming from from Southeast Asia.
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 11: So yeah, we're we're looking at air cargo coming in
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 11: and trying to trying to stop these and make sure
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 11: they're imported in the direct manner.
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: What would be the correct man or like they're not
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: like a mink eyelash isn't necessarily illegal, it's just the
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: way they're bringing them in. They're not declaring them as
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: a wildlife product. Is that the problem?
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 11: Yeah, Yeah, so mink art particularly highly protected. Like you
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 11: mentioned rhyan o horn. Obviously they're not in the same level.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 11: Most of these are farmed mink, and so they just
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 11: need to have a few things done. If you're commercially importing,
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 11: you got to have an import permit from US and
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 11: then yeah, you have to declare every shipment as it arrives,
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 11: declare it to the genus and species, so we know what,
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 11: oh what, what animal you're using and the quantity. So
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 11: that's that's the biggest like violation for the mink eyelashes.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 11: Is there just failing to declare or failure to obtain
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 11: a license.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 6: Uh?
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: So do this for people. You told me how this works.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: But let's say someone's sitting that home right now and
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: they're just curious if they're fake eyelashes are made of
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: mink or not. Tell them the little tests you do
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: to find out what exactly you're looking at.
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 11: Yeah, So if you have a pair that maybe took
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 11: off and you already wore once or twice, you can
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 11: just take a match and burn part of that and
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 11: to get a good whiff and see what it smells like.
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 10: And if it smells like burned hair like or like petroleum.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 11: Plastic, that'll tell you right off the bat if it's
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 11: if it's a natural product or a synthetic product.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: Huh. How many times if you had to get like
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: you've been there five years, how many different times have
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: you encountered mink eyelashes coming into your port?
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 10: Hundreds? Oh yeah, hundreds.
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 11: It's not every day anymore, but uh that these things
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 11: kind of come and go in waves. So much of
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 11: it is driven by like the fashion industry and what's popular.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 11: And I think right now we're kind of at like
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 11: a lull at least in our port of what we're seeing.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 11: So maybe there's some you know, people are starting to
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 11: realize that they are made of mink and they don't
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 11: want that. But it seems like it's on a downward
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 11: trend right now. But you know, like ten years ago
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 11: it was probably tenfold amount of products coming in.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: You know, how fashion becomes self parody, like meaning a
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: thing becomes fashionable and then it just tries to one
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: up itself, right, like like a hole in your jeens
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: that's fashionable, so someone then eventually it's that the whole
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: front of your jeans is gone or there's holes from
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: top to bottom because it's self parodies itself. Are mink
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: eyelashes subtle or are they like you want to see
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: big eyelashes? Check these out? Like, how would you rank
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: a mink eyelash? Oh?
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 11: Yeah, like on flutterly flutteriness, I'd say they're they're up
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 11: there and they amount of flutter they have.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: So it's an exaggerated eyelash. It's like a big eyelash.
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 11: Well at times it is, yes, but like there's so
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 11: many variations that you'll see that smaller, more kind of
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 11: petite ones and ones that are just comically large but
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 11: got So you could.
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: Be and still be wearing mink. You could be classy
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: in mink, or you could be not in mink.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 10: Sounds like I think you'd be classy.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: Now here's another question, if you don't mind adding in
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: on this, are you able to share with us a
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: handful of other wildlife products that you've seen show up
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: in your area of jurisdiction over your career there? Are
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: you able to share some other examples of things that
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: you might that your agency might find coming into Port
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: and Anchorage ELASTICA sure.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 11: A lot of what we see is products we don't
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 11: see too many live live animals. A lot of those
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 11: are you know, they don't want their live animals to
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 11: sit on the tarmac when it's like negative twenty out,
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 11: I just don't survive.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: So you're not a.
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 10: No, not typically, although we just had some yesterday. I
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 10: can't talk about those too much.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 11: But in the past past years, like we had a
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 11: a viper come in in a pringles can from Southeast
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 11: Asia and that was that was a Yeah, that was
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 11: an eye opener. So that's you know, like one of
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 11: the more surprising Like, hey, but most of what we
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 11: see is parts and products, feathers, shells, turtle products, turtle
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 11: shell products, and occasionally live live animals like birds.
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 4: Has a question, Steve, go ahead, right, we have all
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 4: those products, how many of those are like banned outright
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 4: versus how many of those are simply trying to slide
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 4: in undeclared.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 11: Yeah, so that's that's part of our gig is to
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 11: facilitate the legal trades. So we're there to find the
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 11: real bad stuff, but also you know, help people do
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 11: it legally. Most you know, like the real bad stuff
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 11: we don't see super often, like the rhino horn, the
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 11: elephant tusks, like we see that stuff, but it's it's
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 11: pretty rare compared to like, oh, you're importing shell jewelry
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 11: that has to be declared. So that's of course more common.
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 11: The more common the animal, the more common we're seeing
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 11: the thing.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: So are you often involved in the work of let's
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: say someone's importing shell jewelry, does it fall on your
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: agency to try to determine what is the genus and species,
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: because I imagine it could be like very hard to
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: figure out if it's polished shell, right, how you'd ever
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: begin to understand like is it, what is it from?
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: You know, where did it come from, and what did
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: they make it with?
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, so it's it's upon the importer to declare
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 11: it to the genus and species level, and they would
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 11: rely on their exporter quite a bit for that. So
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 11: it's not like it's not our position to determine that,
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 11: but we do have to spend a lot of time
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 11: trying to id things because the importers, you know, in
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 11: illegal cases.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 10: They don't want to do that anyway. So we need
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 10: to be able to do that to know that this
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 10: might be a protected species or it may not be.
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: Meaning someone could someone could try to bring in a
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: thing that could be that they could be declaring it
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: as something permissible, but you'd have the obligation of verifying
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: that it was what they're saying it is exactly whether
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: that intention a mistake or intentional. It could be a
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: thing that would happen.
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 11: Yeah, I like snake skins. You know there's there's protected snakes,
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 11: and there's there's non protected stakes. So if you were
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 11: wanting to try to sneak something in without permits, you
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 11: might call it, you know, a water snake versus a
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 11: ball python.
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: Or something understood understood. You know what I didn't do
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: a good job of when I when I started out, Brian,
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: can you can you tell everybody what your you know,
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: your agency, but also what your specific job title would be,
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: like what is your what is your what is your
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know, you know what's on your badge?
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 10: Yeah?
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 11: Yeah, So I'm a I'm a wildlife inspector. I worked
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 11: for the Office of Law Enforcement, which is a law
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 11: enforcement division of the US Fish and Wildlife Service, And
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 11: so we work at all the ports of entry across.
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: The US.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 11: And uh we combat the legal wildlife trafficking trade. And
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 11: then like I said, facilitate the legal trade.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: Got it? And then you are you are based within?
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: Are you within the Anchorage Airport? Like where do you
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: Where do you sit right now? Yeah?
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 11: So, uh me and I'm at the Anchorage Airport. We
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 11: have an international side, so I'm at the office here today.
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 11: We also have people over at sorting facility for like
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 11: the air cargo so we get most of our most
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 11: of our cargoes coming in from Southeast Asia on the
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 11: on the air side of things. We also have outports
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 11: that we cover for like the the the highways between
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 11: Canada and in the US, like alcan Well, we'll cover
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 11: that as well.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: Got one last question for you. Say a fellow went
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: over to Africa and he did some hunting, and he
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: lives in Anchorage, and he waits a million years and
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: finally the stuff he got in Africa arrives for him.
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: Do you get to take a peek?
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, just yesterday I was inspecting a shipment from
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 11: South Africa. So yeah, even non commercial personal ship have
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 11: to be declared. So they'll arrive on cargo and we'll
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 11: go over there and make sure what they're declaring is accurate.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 11: If there's permits to collect, they'll collect those and stamp
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 11: them and help them fill out paperwork.
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 10: And yeah.
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 11: Yeah, that's kind of a fun thing of our job
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 11: is to kind of see that that exotic stuff coming in.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: You know what, I'm realizing he might be a very
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: good trivia mm hmm. Contestant on Wildlife Questions a lot
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 1: of analogy Wildlife Questions Brian asked, thanks for coming on
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: the show and explaining all that to us. Man, I
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: want to go get me a set of these eyelashes
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: and put them on. We should have done that today.
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 4: I thought about doing that.
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 6: Yeah, there's some pictures in there.
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know. All right, thank you very much, officer.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: Appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. I'm
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: gonna start growing up to people lightening their eyelashes on
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: fire and smelling all right, thank you very much. All Right,
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, thanks for joining the News Show. Come
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: on next week and you're gonna hear Brody talk all
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: about a thing that I don't understand well because I
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: thought it was something different.
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, Brod, these guys were cut out for him.
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: I thought the rule making process would prove so impossible
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: that it was like some kind of problem.
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 8: Let's hope that was that's what happens. But it's not
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 8: officially lie yet. They gotta go through some stuff.
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 3: Butioned.
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: Just when you thought Colorado, the animal rights community in
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: Colorado could not embarrass their state anymore, they do next
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: week on the News Show.
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 9: When you out into the sunset, I thought would never
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 9: stop streaming. I thought I would never stop screaming your name.
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: But I ran out of breath.
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 5: So I took in some more, and I started
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 9: To screaming, loud, screaming,