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Analysis: Who is and isn't part of the Tigers' core going forward? · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:08
Speaker 1: And welcome in to another episode of Tiger Territory, part
0:11
Speaker 1: of the Foul Territory Network, Detroit Tigers Podcast. I'm Kieran Steckley.
0:14
Speaker 1: With me, as always, is a man who's somewhat of
0:16
Speaker 1: a ghost runner himself. He is Cody Stavenhagen. How are
0:19
Speaker 1: we doing?
0:20
Speaker 2: Ooh, ghost runner. Maybe it's only because I'm so fast
0:23
Speaker 2: people can't see me. I'm just kidding. I'm in my 30s.
0:26
Speaker 2: Those days are over. Maybe ghost writer. I'll take the
0:30
Speaker 2: royalty checks if anyone wants me to do their biography.
0:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, put the call out there. See what happens. I
0:36
Speaker 1: will endorse as well Cody's ability to write. Obviously, you
0:40
Speaker 1: guys know that as subscribers to this podcast and subscribers
0:42
Speaker 1: to The Athletic. And the thing is, Cody, what makes
0:45
Speaker 1: you such a great writer is that you have the
0:47
Speaker 1: ability to just tell a great story, you know, no
0:50
Speaker 1: matter what the source is. So now the challenge is
0:53
Speaker 1: you got to tell me a great story about what
0:55
Speaker 1: we witnessed Wednesday night over in Minnesota, the Tigers– we're
1:01
Speaker 1: able to salvage the series a little bit, help the
1:03
Speaker 1: run differential a little bit. It was a little bit,
1:06
Speaker 1: a lot of bit uncomfortable, but they did walk away
1:09
Speaker 1: with 11 to six win in 12 innings. And I'll
1:14
Speaker 1: just preface it with this. You know, one of the
1:17
Speaker 1: things I love about my father is he's kind of
1:19
Speaker 1: like an optimist, you know, like he always just has
1:22
Speaker 1: like a good outlook on life and, and things. And,
1:25
Speaker 1: you know, he's, you know, hasn't given up on the
1:27
Speaker 1: Tigers team and, you know, all this stuff. And then
1:29
Speaker 1: he actually texted me last night. He was like, I
1:32
Speaker 1: can't do this anymore.
1:33
Speaker 2: Detroit sports fan.
1:38
Speaker 1: And, uh, and that was, that was right after, uh, the,
1:42
Speaker 1: the twins tied the game there in the ninth inning.
1:44
Speaker 1: And so, uh, so yeah, so he, They've broken Mike Steckley, Cody.
1:48
Speaker 1: I don't know what else to say right there.
1:51
Speaker 2: I think if you were to just take those 12
1:53
Speaker 2: innings for what they are, it was a heck of
1:55
Speaker 2: a story. A highly entertaining baseball game when you put
1:58
Speaker 2: it in the context of the season and the current
2:01
Speaker 2: state of the Tigers, it's hard for me to get
2:04
Speaker 2: too fired up about it. It seems like there's some
2:06
Speaker 2: stuff coming out after the game of, oh, we never
2:09
Speaker 2: quit and all that. Sounds like A.J. Hinch gave his
2:12
Speaker 2: team some form of stern talking to before the game,
2:16
Speaker 2: which is interesting. But then you come out and, I
2:20
Speaker 2: don't know, almost blow another ugly one, almost at the
2:23
Speaker 2: hands of your bullpen again. Obviously there were some good
2:26
Speaker 2: things that happened. Kyle Finnegan stepped up and made some
2:29
Speaker 2: pitches when he really had to. You get the Torcomer
2:32
Speaker 2: and a little more action there in extra innings. But
2:36
Speaker 2: watching that game was pretty painful. It's good that they
2:38
Speaker 2: escaped with a win, but they really never should have
2:40
Speaker 2: been that way. It shouldn't have been that way. Good
2:43
Speaker 2: thing they have an off day Thursday because otherwise all
2:45
Speaker 2: you really did was tax your bullpen more than you
2:48
Speaker 2: needed to. So I wasn't fired up about, I wasn't
2:52
Speaker 2: predicting a Tigers turnaround coming after that game because it
2:57
Speaker 2: was still pretty ugly, let's be real.
3:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's funny. Sometimes I'll watch the game. uh,
3:05
Speaker 1: like on TV or whatever. And then I'll have like
3:07
Speaker 1: my tablet up and I'll just have like the game
3:09
Speaker 1: cast or the game center, like up. So I can
3:12
Speaker 1: just kind of see like graphics, you know, while, while
3:14
Speaker 1: the game is going on. And, uh, it was not
3:18
Speaker 1: very comfortable looking at the amount of pitches that were
3:21
Speaker 1: just straight down the pipe, you know, that the tigers
3:24
Speaker 1: were throwing. And, and, you know, quite frankly, even though
3:26
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like it, cause you know, you ended
3:28
Speaker 1: up winning the game and you had the lead obviously
3:31
Speaker 1: until the end there. Uh, Got away with a lot,
3:36
Speaker 1: I would say, the Tigers did last night. If you
3:39
Speaker 1: really kind of break it down on a pitch-by-pitch basis,
3:42
Speaker 1: and then obviously there were some self-inflicted errors in there
3:46
Speaker 1: as well. But look, I will say this. If you
3:49
Speaker 1: want to talk about the cliche, we never give up, blah, blah, blah.
3:54
Speaker 1: All right, fine. But I will tell you that coming
3:57
Speaker 1: off two of the ugliest games that we've seen in
3:59
Speaker 1: quite some time, you didn't notice how you leave running
4:03
Speaker 1: the bases any less hard. You know, you didn't notice, like,
4:06
Speaker 1: Max Clark, like, just kind of doing Max Clark things.
4:09
Speaker 1: He's kind of like a making things happen kind of
4:11
Speaker 1: player right now. And then, obviously, you know, McGonagall, you know,
4:15
Speaker 1: doing McGonagall things. And, hell, even Tork, you know, that
4:17
Speaker 1: was his first home run since, like, what, July 21st
4:20
Speaker 1: or something like that?
4:21
Speaker 2: July 21st, something.
4:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, a long time. And so, like, he finally, you know,
4:27
Speaker 1: finally got a hanging breaking ball he could do damage with. So,
4:30
Speaker 1: you know, credit there, but nothing that, again gonna have
4:35
Speaker 1: like an overarching like narrative about like about the game
4:39
Speaker 1: and the rebounding and all that stuff but good to
4:41
Speaker 1: see that you know good to see the boys like
4:43
Speaker 1: fight back and win that game because i will say
4:45
Speaker 1: this that's a game that once you blow it i
4:47
Speaker 1: haven't seen a lot of like staying with it and
4:51
Speaker 1: then winning those kinds of games so forever that is
4:54
Speaker 1: worth there and you know what also john peck first
4:57
Speaker 1: career hit we uh i joked on the last podcast
5:00
Speaker 1: about Are they going to give them that little dribbler
5:03
Speaker 1: just to kind of get the first hit out of
5:05
Speaker 1: the way? Well, kind of a good thing they did
5:08
Speaker 1: it because that was a sweeter, double right off the
5:11
Speaker 1: wall there, sweeter first career hit RBI. And they had
5:14
Speaker 1: another one later. So good for John Peck at the
5:17
Speaker 1: plate yesterday. Everyone talks about the glove, but the bat
5:20
Speaker 1: looks great.
5:24
Speaker 2: A couple plays in the field I thought he should
5:26
Speaker 2: have made. He wasn't charged with an error or anything,
5:28
Speaker 2: but a couple plays he should have made. More important
5:30
Speaker 2: probably to just get going with the stick a little
5:33
Speaker 2: bit because that can be hard for guys. It's kind
5:35
Speaker 2: of amazing how quickly multiple Tigers rookies have found their
5:40
Speaker 2: footing at the plate because there's a long history of
5:43
Speaker 2: guys coming up and it just takes a while to
5:45
Speaker 2: get going. Max Clark continues to be pretty dang impressive.
5:49
Speaker 2: He's already had a couple little spells where you wonder, like, okay,
5:54
Speaker 2: is he going to start cooling off? And, you know,
5:56
Speaker 2: he's shown the ability to be adjustable and get his
5:58
Speaker 2: timing down and cover different pitches, hit lefties, all those things.
6:02
Speaker 2: He's been really strong. And it's kind of interesting because
6:05
Speaker 2: I've talked about, like, I don't know, man, it seems
6:08
Speaker 2: like the front office has turned to the page and
6:10
Speaker 2: you have Callahan and Peck and Lee and Malgieri playing
6:14
Speaker 2: so much. And all of those guys individually have done
6:17
Speaker 2: just fine, like quite well in some cases. it's really
6:23
Speaker 2: the absence of Dylan Dingler, Spencer Torkelson, the injury to
6:27
Speaker 2: Riley Green, combined with continued kind of underperformance from the
6:33
Speaker 2: few veterans left on your team that have probably hurt
6:35
Speaker 2: them the most, that and the fact that just all
6:38
Speaker 2: these rookies, even though they're all playing somewhere between fine
6:42
Speaker 2: and quite well, there's not really a threat in your lineup,
6:45
Speaker 2: especially if Riley's hurt or Dingler's not producing. So that's
6:51
Speaker 2: just kind of one of the oddities. I don't want
6:54
Speaker 2: to sound like I'm complaining about the young players because
6:56
Speaker 2: they are playing well. It's just like no longer the
6:59
Speaker 2: makeup of a real contending team.
7:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, and kind of the funny thing about it is that,
7:10
Speaker 1: and trust me, we are going to do this. So
7:12
Speaker 1: this is not being critical of those that will partake
7:15
Speaker 1: in this exercise. We will do this in the offseason.
7:18
Speaker 1: it's trying to figure out what you have in these guys,
7:20
Speaker 1: given the fact that, like you said, it's been, you know, okay.
7:24
Speaker 1: It's a pretty dang good for a lot of these
7:26
Speaker 1: players that like, you're going to be able to talk yourself.
7:29
Speaker 1: You could probably talk yourself into every single, I'm not
7:33
Speaker 1: sure that's.
7:33
Speaker 2: A good thing. Some of these guys might be playing
7:35
Speaker 2: too well.
7:37
Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing. Like you're going to be able
7:38
Speaker 1: to talk yourself into them. And then what does that
7:40
Speaker 1: mean for the construction of the rest of your roster? That's, uh,
7:45
Speaker 1: It's like, hey, congratulations, man. It's really awesome that, you know,
7:48
Speaker 1: a couple months into your major league career, you got
7:50
Speaker 1: 800 OPS. But does that mean that I got to
7:54
Speaker 1: figure out what to do with Kerry Carpenter now? Like,
7:57
Speaker 1: is that like, you know, it's like those will be
8:00
Speaker 1: the challenges of the offseason, obviously.
8:01
Speaker 2: Low-key scares me, Karen. Is how you lead so good
8:05
Speaker 2: that they're not going to add anyone else to their infield?
8:08
Speaker 2: It worries me.
8:12
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. Like, almost all of them. have played
8:15
Speaker 1: well enough that you could be like, ah, do we
8:18
Speaker 1: really want to block them? Like, that's going to be
8:22
Speaker 1: the first question, you know, when it comes to free agency.
8:24
Speaker 1: It's like, ah, do we really want to block Lee?
8:26
Speaker 1: Do we really want to block Callahan? You know, like,
8:30
Speaker 1: does Peck shore up our infield? Like, these are the
8:33
Speaker 1: things that, you know, are going to be discussed. And, look,
8:37
Speaker 1: more power to them for the fact that they've kind
8:39
Speaker 1: of put themselves into that discussion. Which actually leads us
8:44
Speaker 1: to the core of this podcast, Cody, is that I
8:47
Speaker 1: think if we're going to look ahead, which I think
8:51
Speaker 1: the Tigers are looking ahead at this point, as we discussed,
8:55
Speaker 1: you kind of have to know where you are, right?
8:58
Speaker 1: And then kind of navigate it from there. And there's
9:00
Speaker 1: been some talk on Twitter about who is in the Tigers' core.
9:05
Speaker 1: Who are the core guys that you're building... around right
9:12
Speaker 1: so we all have the analogy of chords in the
9:14
Speaker 1: center and then you build you know from there so
9:18
Speaker 1: there's i wrote down let's see one two three four
9:23
Speaker 1: five six and i might be high so i'm gonna
9:27
Speaker 1: i wonder if you're gonna tell me that i'm high
9:29
Speaker 1: here so mcgonigal no question a he's great b he's
9:33
Speaker 1: signed under contract for a while max clark i believe
9:38
Speaker 1: we've seen enough to you know and obviously with his
9:40
Speaker 1: stature as a prospect he was always going to be
9:42
Speaker 1: in there but there's now major league evidence for for
9:44
Speaker 1: him dylan dingler that's one riley green now we have
9:49
Speaker 1: a couple older guys in there troy melton absolutely so
9:56
Speaker 1: that's five and then the sixth one i put in
10:00
Speaker 1: there kind of circumstantially and it's and he will continue
10:06
Speaker 1: to be sort of like a topic of debate among
10:08
Speaker 1: tigers fans and media colt keith i contractually he is
10:13
Speaker 1: there and it's not like he has played poorly But
10:17
Speaker 1: that's the core. I couldn't go beyond that. So your
10:21
Speaker 1: thoughts on me having those six guys as the core?
10:25
Speaker 1: Did I miss anybody? Should we move?
10:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it depends how we're defining core, right?
10:31
Speaker 2: I have a feeling if Scott Harris were on with us,
10:34
Speaker 2: which Scott's been a while. We'd love to have him on.
10:37
Speaker 2: You know, he'd probably say, well, all these guys are
10:39
Speaker 2: part of the core. Guys who are going to factor
10:41
Speaker 2: into the roster or roster decisions for the next few
10:45
Speaker 2: years I think would include Lee would include Valencia. You
10:50
Speaker 2: could maybe extend that out to Algeria or Callahan. How
10:56
Speaker 2: long do you have to be under contract to be
10:58
Speaker 2: part of the Corps? Because Fromber's going to be here
11:00
Speaker 2: at least one year, probably two more years unless he
11:03
Speaker 2: really lights up. Jackson Jobe's part of the Corps. Add
11:05
Speaker 2: Jackson Jobe 100% to your list. And there are some
11:10
Speaker 2: other guys who are in that mold where like, yeah,
11:13
Speaker 2: they're probably role players, but if they figure to be
11:16
Speaker 2: role players for the next three, four years, are they
11:18
Speaker 2: part of the core? Or are we just talking like
11:21
Speaker 2: your everyday staples and sure thing parts of the rotation?
11:28
Speaker 2: I would add Job to your list, and I would
11:30
Speaker 2: consider probably Howie Lee. Again, I don't know that we
11:32
Speaker 2: know exactly what he is, but he's probably going to
11:35
Speaker 2: be a part of the big league roster for a
11:38
Speaker 2: few years to come, whether he becomes like an everyday player,
11:42
Speaker 2: I don't know, but at the minimum, he's, he's a
11:44
Speaker 2: pretty good guy who I think they're going to find
11:46
Speaker 2: ways to play a lot. Um, otherwise, otherwise I think
11:51
Speaker 2: you pretty much nailed it. And, you know, I think
11:53
Speaker 2: we put on this graphic, if you're watching on YouTube,
11:55
Speaker 2: how's the core cooled? Well, it's a pretty good core.
11:58
Speaker 2: I mean, Kevin McGonigal is already one of the best
12:01
Speaker 2: players in the sport, and Dylan Dingler is one of,
12:04
Speaker 2: if not the best catchers, and Riley Green is a
12:06
Speaker 2: three-time All-Star, and Max Clark is a top-10-level prospect, and
12:11
Speaker 2: Troy Melton and Jackson Jobe have incredible stuff. And that's
12:15
Speaker 2: one of the things that makes the Tigers... I don't
12:18
Speaker 2: know if it's weird, but that's one of the things
12:19
Speaker 2: that makes them almost an odd case. They're going into
12:23
Speaker 2: next year, Kieran. We'll see how much baseball there is
12:27
Speaker 2: next year. despite a wildly disappointing season, I think there's
12:30
Speaker 2: a real argument. They should be AL central favorites. If, if,
12:34
Speaker 2: if they can at all supplement this roster, they are
12:37
Speaker 2: bringing back a good amount of talent, some high end talent,
12:40
Speaker 2: more young guys knocking on the door. Obviously they have
12:43
Speaker 2: to improve the edges of the roster. They have to
12:47
Speaker 2: raise the ceiling of their roster. They're going to have
12:49
Speaker 2: to do some things in free agency and or trade
12:53
Speaker 2: to avoid something like this year happening again. Um, But
12:58
Speaker 2: the Tigers have a lot to work with and still
13:00
Speaker 2: a lot to like. That's just what makes it so
13:03
Speaker 2: weird because the tone coming off this year is highly disappointing, negative,
13:08
Speaker 2: and yet they're probably going to be peddling optimism all offseason,
13:13
Speaker 2: and I'm not sure that it's unwarranted. A lot of
13:16
Speaker 2: it will be warranted.
13:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the way I kind of parceled this out
13:23
Speaker 1: was I had Joe Montero and don't forget about Reese Olsen.
13:28
Speaker 1: I had those guys in the category I call tag team,
13:33
Speaker 1: where it's like they're next. They could be, and you're
13:38
Speaker 1: kind of planned for them to be to a certain extent,
13:41
Speaker 1: multiple levels with those guys. But in terms of surefire
13:45
Speaker 1: in the core, I couldn't put them in yet because
13:50
Speaker 1: I think there's still more variance with those guys than
13:53
Speaker 1: the ones in the first category, obviously. you know, Clark
13:58
Speaker 1: being a little bit of an exception for that. But again,
14:00
Speaker 1: like you said, top 10 prospect. And then I had
14:02
Speaker 1: a pieces category. And that's where you have the Valencias
14:05
Speaker 1: of the world, the Lees of the world, the Summers
14:07
Speaker 1: of the world, the Callahan. Hell, put Peck in there. Basically,
14:11
Speaker 1: all these rookies that we're seeing, like, obviously, they deserve
14:16
Speaker 1: a place here. But if Scott Harris were to say, well,
14:18
Speaker 1: they're all part of the core, then I would say,
14:20
Speaker 1: then just go to Baruba. uh, for all of free
14:23
Speaker 1: agency and just like not do anything. Cause you have
14:26
Speaker 1: the core of everybody's core that you don't have to
14:27
Speaker 1: add to the team. All right. Like, you know, you
14:29
Speaker 1: don't have to do anything. Uh, you know, just go
14:31
Speaker 1: to the draft and supplement the core that way. So
14:33
Speaker 1: obviously like there's nuance and variances to this. So that's
14:37
Speaker 1: kind of how I parceled through this. I didn't really
14:41
Speaker 1: do a lot of relievers because I just, you know,
14:44
Speaker 1: that's for the given this year, and given the guys
14:50
Speaker 1: on the team and in the organization, like, like Summers
14:53
Speaker 1: is the only one that I feel pretty confident that
14:56
Speaker 1: the tire is going to look at as like.
14:57
Speaker 2: Summers might be the only guy who has like a
14:59
Speaker 2: spot guaranteed. Um, we're close to guaranteed coming back next year.
15:03
Speaker 2: They obviously have a lot to do. And, uh, most
15:07
Speaker 2: every bullpen has a lot to do. It's just rare.
15:11
Speaker 2: You have core players in your, in your pin. So
15:14
Speaker 2: we'll count, we'll count Summers in there and, You know,
15:17
Speaker 2: other guy, Brant Herter, who's been hurt all year, is
15:20
Speaker 2: going to come back and could be a good pitcher.
15:22
Speaker 2: We'll see what Sears ends up being. But, yeah, I
15:25
Speaker 2: totally agree with you on the concept there. Yeah.
15:30
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, like, and part of, like, again, like,
15:33
Speaker 1: I call them pieces, is that, like, you figure that
15:35
Speaker 1: they can make an impact, but I'm not sure, like,
15:40
Speaker 1: whether you want to kind of write them in and
15:43
Speaker 1: pen as some sort of role in the, in the
15:45
Speaker 1: major league team next year and moving forward. So you're
15:48
Speaker 1: not quite sure, like as, as fun as it is
15:51
Speaker 1: to see Valencia at the, at the play. And by
15:53
Speaker 1: the way, give him credit last night. He, you know,
15:55
Speaker 1: threw out a runner there after a challenge like it,
15:59
Speaker 1: but how sustainable is it for him? How sustainable is
16:03
Speaker 1: it for Lee? How sustainable is it for Callahan? And, And, like,
16:06
Speaker 1: all this stuff. So, like, that's the question that has
16:09
Speaker 1: to get answered. And that's what these games are really
16:12
Speaker 1: doing is giving you a sample size to determine. And
16:14
Speaker 1: then I did want to circle back here, actually. I
16:19
Speaker 1: did want to circle back to Colt Keith. Yeah. So, obviously, contractually, like,
16:24
Speaker 1: he is on the team for sure through the 2030 season.
16:28
Speaker 1: After that, it's like three years of club options. Maybe,
16:33
Speaker 1: give or take, a year or two there. But it's
16:35
Speaker 1: club options after that with a little bit of a
16:36
Speaker 1: pay bump. He's going to be making $ 4. 3 and $ 5. 3
16:40
Speaker 1: million up until that point per season. Colt Keith is
16:45
Speaker 1: a still unfinished product, I think is fair to say.
16:47
Speaker 1: I don't know we can say what Colt Keith will
16:53
Speaker 1: end up being yet. We all have an idea. We
16:56
Speaker 1: know that the floor... It's pretty good. I think that
17:01
Speaker 1: gets lost in like, oh, he got the contract extension. Oh,
17:04
Speaker 1: he doesn't hit for as much power as it looks
17:06
Speaker 1: like he should. Oh, he hasn't really found a positional home.
17:11
Speaker 1: That's all worthy of discussion. But the Colt Keith discussion
17:16
Speaker 1: that doesn't get put out there is that he has
17:20
Speaker 1: been very consistent since day one of his major league career.
17:25
Speaker 1: And like, if you can have a guy just making
17:28
Speaker 1: a handful of million dollars, obviously we don't know if
17:30
Speaker 1: there's going to be a salary cap and like all
17:32
Speaker 1: this stuff, whatever, but let's just assume there's not going
17:35
Speaker 1: to be one. Cole Keith is still a bargain through
17:39
Speaker 1: the extent of which you guys start making major decisions,
17:42
Speaker 1: which is when those club options start. And even then
17:45
Speaker 1: it's 10 million, it's 11 million. It's, you know, we
17:48
Speaker 1: could probably say he's not going to hit the escalators
17:50
Speaker 1: of like MVPs and, you know, all that stuff in
17:53
Speaker 1: the contract. And by the way, No shame in not
17:55
Speaker 1: being an MVP. It's kind of hard to do. So, like,
18:00
Speaker 1: people talk about he might be a guy on the
18:02
Speaker 1: outside looking in, or they might want to look to
18:04
Speaker 1: trade him. I don't see it, dude. This was one
18:09
Speaker 1: of Sky Harris' first, like, big moves. He hasn't been
18:12
Speaker 1: a disappointment. Even if you want more, that's not a disappointment.
18:17
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? And so I think Cole
18:19
Speaker 1: Keith gets a little bit overlooked or– I think it's
18:22
Speaker 1: overstated how much the Tigers need to look elsewhere from
18:28
Speaker 1: a Colt Keith type. You could win a lot of
18:30
Speaker 1: games having some dudes that are as consistent as Colt
18:33
Speaker 1: Keith because then you know what you have.
18:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, I certainly understand why fans like to bring up
18:38
Speaker 2: Colt Keith and trade speculation. It's because he's become an
18:43
Speaker 2: awkward fit, doesn't have a real defensive home. Eventually, you
18:47
Speaker 2: would think first base becomes that defensive home. He has
18:49
Speaker 2: never looked comfortable over there. That would mean, A, potentially
18:54
Speaker 2: moving on from Tork, but then you have Bersenio coming.
18:57
Speaker 2: Will Keith hit for the power needed to play first base?
19:00
Speaker 2: So I understand that. He is, unlike some of these
19:05
Speaker 2: players who people are ready to trade away, could be
19:08
Speaker 2: very attractive to other teams because he's young. As you mentioned, Kieran,
19:11
Speaker 2: he is cheap. Fangraphs projects him to be worth 10
19:15
Speaker 2: million this season. And so he's, he's already, you know,
19:17
Speaker 2: there's surplus value built in with Colt Keith because his
19:20
Speaker 2: contract is so team friendly. So maybe other teams might
19:26
Speaker 2: like that. I would argue, well, the Tigers probably like that.
19:29
Speaker 2: Scott Harris probably likes that a lot. And given he's
19:32
Speaker 2: only in his age 24 season, I'm sure the team
19:35
Speaker 2: still thinks there's a little bit more in there. And
19:38
Speaker 2: as long as he is cheap, they're probably going to
19:40
Speaker 2: try to draw that out of him. But then that
19:43
Speaker 2: goes back to the discussion of like, Well, you can't
19:46
Speaker 2: keep everyone, or you certainly can't write everyone in pins.
19:50
Speaker 2: So between Twerk, Keith, Veerling, Parker Meadows, Zach McKinstry, like, oh,
19:56
Speaker 2: but now we're adding in Peck and Callahan and Malgeri
19:59
Speaker 2: and Lee and can't keep everyone. So I, you know,
20:03
Speaker 2: I don't know how that is going to look. I
20:04
Speaker 2: think because of the contract and because he is still
20:07
Speaker 2: young and Even right now, he is a slightly above
20:13
Speaker 2: average major league hitter. I think he's a 102 or
20:16
Speaker 2: 103 WRC +. And you think there could be more
20:19
Speaker 2: in there. I think Cole Keith is still a part
20:22
Speaker 2: of this team's core. Even while acknowledging that, no, there's
20:26
Speaker 2: no doubt. It's kind of become an awkward fit that
20:28
Speaker 2: now makes some of your other chess pieces a little
20:31
Speaker 2: harder to move around.
20:34
Speaker 1: He just turned 25. like his birthday august 14th he
20:39
Speaker 1: just turned 25 he is still a very young player
20:42
Speaker 1: with you know now he's in his third season and.
20:45
Speaker 2: Good base runner by the way he's a good base.
20:47
Speaker 1: Runner very good one of their best i would say
20:50
Speaker 1: um base runners and you know not for nothing he's
20:53
Speaker 1: had to figure out how to hit major league pitching
20:55
Speaker 1: the hardest thing to do in sport while not but
20:59
Speaker 1: gotta be jerking around on the field so he's had
21:01
Speaker 1: to learn first base had to learn third base he
21:03
Speaker 1: hasn't Hardly played second base the past two years. So, like,
21:08
Speaker 1: the Tigers have asked a lot of Colt Keith. And
21:11
Speaker 1: even days, like, you know, where he's DH'd a lot. Like,
21:14
Speaker 1: you know, young players don't like DHing because it doesn't
21:18
Speaker 1: make them feel as active or whatever. You know what
21:20
Speaker 1: I mean? And then you have to deal with the
21:21
Speaker 1: whole platoon stuff that AJ likes to do. Again, you're
21:24
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what you are. A lot's been
21:26
Speaker 1: thrown at Colt Keith. And I think he's handled everything well. Like, well,
21:31
Speaker 1: like I said, the floor seems high for Colt Keith,
21:35
Speaker 1: and I will defend him as a part of this
21:39
Speaker 1: core over anybody who is, like, dissatisfied with it not
21:43
Speaker 1: popping yet. And maybe it won't pop-pop, but I still
21:47
Speaker 1: think there's more in there, and I'm willing.
21:48
Speaker 2: To wait and see. Cody Clemons has 24 home runs.
21:51
Speaker 2: You can tell me Colt Keith can't have a season
21:53
Speaker 2: like that. It could still pop. Yeah, yeah.
21:57
Speaker 1: And then I also had a category that I called Ramp.
22:03
Speaker 1: And it's kind of like the guys that maybe they
22:06
Speaker 1: might be toward the exit of their time with the organization.
22:11
Speaker 1: You mentioned Tork. That's going to be a tough discussion
22:14
Speaker 1: after this year. Matt Bureling, I think, fits in that category.
22:20
Speaker 1: What do you do with Parker Meadows? I don't know, man.
22:23
Speaker 1: That's a tough one. He is still a young guy,
22:25
Speaker 1: but If you're comfortable with Clark in center field, where
22:32
Speaker 1: does that leave Parker? He's missed a whole year of
22:35
Speaker 1: professional development with this injury, unfortunately. Like, that's going to
22:38
Speaker 1: be a tough discussion at some point. And then Zach McKinstry.
22:46
Speaker 1: Maybe Zach McKinstry is just, like, one of those guys
22:48
Speaker 1: that kind of, like, ages out of the team, basically.
22:51
Speaker 1: You know, he's, like, what, 32 years old? Maybe you
22:54
Speaker 1: want to get a little bit younger. uh in his
22:57
Speaker 1: role and then i don't know what to do with
22:59
Speaker 1: wentzel perez either who is another guy who like injury
23:03
Speaker 1: has kind of made us you know taken away our
23:05
Speaker 1: ability to kind of like assess like fully like what
23:08
Speaker 1: his role could be so i had those categories like
23:10
Speaker 1: rant guys yeah.
23:11
Speaker 2: I do think this is where where youth tends to
23:13
Speaker 2: be on your fate in uh on your side if
23:15
Speaker 2: you still have options and you're on the younger end
23:18
Speaker 2: there's a good chance you can stay if you were
23:20
Speaker 2: out of options and there's a 40 man crunch and
23:24
Speaker 2: you're kind of turning the roster over to a, a
23:26
Speaker 2: younger generation. That's what can get you in trouble. Um,
23:31
Speaker 2: some of these guys who've been injured, like it's kind
23:33
Speaker 2: of unfortunate. We just haven't got to see like a
23:36
Speaker 2: healthy veerling for an extended period of time. Certainly not
23:38
Speaker 2: a healthy Parker Meadows. Um, I, I don't know. This
23:42
Speaker 2: one's always hard for me, especially in the middle of
23:44
Speaker 2: the season. Cause I, I don't know if I should say, well,
23:47
Speaker 2: these three guys are going to lose their job and
23:49
Speaker 2: then I got to go see them in the clubhouse
23:50
Speaker 2: tomorrow in Cleveland. But, Those guys know as well as
23:54
Speaker 2: you and I and all the fans and listeners out
23:56
Speaker 2: there know that there are going to be some people
23:59
Speaker 2: from this year's team who don't have jobs next year.
24:02
Speaker 2: There's a group of four, five, six candidates, and the
24:06
Speaker 2: front office is probably going to have to choose at
24:08
Speaker 2: least two or three who aren't going to be with
24:10
Speaker 2: us any longer. And then we'll see if they can
24:11
Speaker 2: swing some trades to reshape this thing too. I think
24:15
Speaker 2: maybe that's the most interesting thing to watch because I
24:17
Speaker 2: think there's going to be a pressure to find something
24:20
Speaker 2: to do because this free agent class is not good.
24:24
Speaker 2: I mean, get ready for say a Suzuki to be
24:26
Speaker 2: the God of tigers, Twitter off season. And I like,
24:29
Speaker 2: I think that's going to be exhausting outside Suzuki and
24:33
Speaker 2: like jazz schism. Like there's just not a lot on
24:36
Speaker 2: the market in terms of big names, everyday players. Like,
24:40
Speaker 2: I don't know. Are you really trying to go for
24:41
Speaker 2: like an aging George Springer? That's already been floated before.
24:45
Speaker 2: I don't think there are great solutions in free agency
24:48
Speaker 2: this year. We'll obviously analyze that a lot more throughout
24:51
Speaker 2: the winter. Um, but that's, that's another one of the
24:55
Speaker 2: weird things about the Tigers. There's going to be this
24:57
Speaker 2: pressure to supplement. And it's also like, well, how are
25:00
Speaker 2: you going to do that? Where are these guys coming from?
25:05
Speaker 1: It's a very fair point. And then, uh, I did
25:09
Speaker 1: have another category of like the road, you know, like
25:12
Speaker 1: the road to Detroit, you know, I remember those series
25:14
Speaker 1: back when the rebuild was at its thickest.
25:16
Speaker 2: How did that core, that core got into two wildcard games,
25:20
Speaker 2: which is not nothing, but that's, two wild card appearances
25:23
Speaker 2: is what that corp provided. I guess Riley and Torker
25:27
Speaker 2: are still at the same.
25:29
Speaker 1: Uh, but Brasenio is in that category. Uh, Bryce Rainer,
25:33
Speaker 1: who could be coming in hot at this time next year. Like, uh, that, that,
25:37
Speaker 1: that guy looks like his stock's about to take off.
25:39
Speaker 1: I probably, I mean, people who know, know, but that's
25:42
Speaker 1: going to get a lot more buzz, I think, uh,
25:44
Speaker 1: next year. And Zaire Hope, you know, the, uh, the
25:47
Speaker 1: big piece of the, uh, of the school trade, like,
25:51
Speaker 1: Those guys are coming in hot. Brissinho and Hope could
25:54
Speaker 1: be factoring into this equation next year. Therefore, how you
25:58
Speaker 1: do it in free agency is also going to be
26:01
Speaker 1: affected by what you think of those guys. So, like,
26:03
Speaker 1: you know, it's like our old pal Mike Yursich. Everything
26:06
Speaker 1: affects everything, baby. So, that's kind of where I see
26:12
Speaker 1: a lot of these guys. And obviously, you know, you
26:15
Speaker 1: mentioned Fromber. Like, we understand, like, Fromber's going to be
26:17
Speaker 1: on this team at least one more year. But, like,
26:20
Speaker 1: So there's not really any decision to be made there
26:22
Speaker 1: per se, but it's like all these other guys are
26:24
Speaker 1: going to affect the decision-making of the front office here
26:27
Speaker 1: moving forward.
26:28
Speaker 2: We've got one more year of Javi Baez, which I
26:30
Speaker 2: think he's probably still got a role here, but that's interesting.
26:34
Speaker 2: It's no longer like, well, there's three years. You just
26:37
Speaker 2: have to eat it one year. Is there someone else
26:41
Speaker 2: in the world who might even want Javi Baez, especially
26:43
Speaker 2: if you're willing to pay down a good chunk of
26:45
Speaker 2: that contract? It could be interesting.
26:47
Speaker 1: I wouldn't rule that out.
26:48
Speaker 2: A name you didn't mention, River Ryan, who might be
26:51
Speaker 2: in the Witness Protection Program. I'm not sure we have
26:53
Speaker 2: proof of his existence other than some quotes really hyping
26:57
Speaker 2: him up, but then it's gone real quiet lately. They
27:00
Speaker 2: traded for him. He's a huge investment. He is, in
27:03
Speaker 2: my mind, the real centerpiece of the Scooble trade. How
27:06
Speaker 2: that trade goes down in the history books will depend
27:09
Speaker 2: on River Ryan. He is probably part of the core,
27:12
Speaker 2: even though we haven't seen proof of his existence as
27:16
Speaker 2: a tiger yet.
27:19
Speaker 1: That's the thing. I'm not critical of him being a 27,
27:22
Speaker 1: 28-year-old prospect or whatever the age is. I'm not critical
27:26
Speaker 1: of that notion. But at the same time, I don't
27:30
Speaker 1: necessarily want to wait around all that much to kind
27:32
Speaker 1: of figure out what you got in River Ryan either
27:34
Speaker 1: because he is 27, 28 years old or whatever. Let's
27:39
Speaker 1: see it. Hopefully you can get healthy and stay healthy
27:42
Speaker 1: and see what all the buzz is about there.
27:46
Speaker 2: All right.
27:47
Speaker 1: Let's wrap up with a couple minutes here, Cody, on this. Obviously,
27:53
Speaker 1: the Tigers are starting a four-game set in Cleveland, and
27:59
Speaker 1: there's been a little bit of buzz on Cleveland Twitter
28:03
Speaker 1: where they're feeling themselves a little bit, hey, look, deserved.
28:08
Speaker 1: The Guardians are the Guardians for a reason. But kind
28:11
Speaker 1: of questioning the validity of Kevin McGonigal's I would say
28:16
Speaker 1: presumed rookie of the year status. I went and looked
28:21
Speaker 1: up the odds. McGonigal right now, based on various sports books,
28:28
Speaker 1: is a minus 425 favorite as of right now. Parker
28:31
Speaker 1: Messick has had an excellent season. He's plus 240 and
28:36
Speaker 1: Chase DeLauder is plus 2000. So those are two guardians
28:40
Speaker 1: in the top three kind of chasing down the McGonigal lead.
28:44
Speaker 1: I feel like he's had probably the, you know, definitely
28:47
Speaker 1: the vast majority of this year. And obviously we appreciate
28:52
Speaker 1: Kevin McGonigal, but if the team continues to kind of
28:57
Speaker 1: be so-so or goes into the tank or whatever, like,
29:01
Speaker 1: is there going to, like, could we see a push
29:03
Speaker 1: for some of these guardians guys to, you know, get, get, take,
29:07
Speaker 1: essentially take that award away from McGonigal and the why
29:10
Speaker 1: it's relevant, take a draft pick away from the Tigers.
29:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, something at stake there. You know, I think even
29:18
Speaker 2: two weeks ago when I was hearing rumblings of this,
29:20
Speaker 2: I was kind of like, I mean, it's McGonagall. Like,
29:23
Speaker 2: McGonagall's going to win rookie of the year. And I
29:26
Speaker 2: still feel as though he is the favorite, but Parker
29:29
Speaker 2: Messick was just American League Pitcher of the Month. This
29:33
Speaker 2: is actually close now. I think McGonigal remains in the lead,
29:37
Speaker 2: but if he slumps in September and Messick pitches like
29:42
Speaker 2: he did in August, this thing could flip. Fangraph's war
29:49
Speaker 2: does not like McGonigal as much as baseball reference war,
29:52
Speaker 2: so in terms of Fangraph's war, Messick's at 4.3, McGonigal's
29:56
Speaker 2: at 4.5. That tells you this thing has gotten pretty close. Now,
30:00
Speaker 2: on baseball reference, where they are kinder to McGonigal defensively,
30:04
Speaker 2: I think he's still near sixth war, and especially when
30:07
Speaker 2: you look at that, I really think this is why
30:09
Speaker 2: I still think he's the favorite. Under 21, first-year Major
30:15
Speaker 2: League players, highest B-war in history. Number one, Ted Williams, 6.6.
30:22
Speaker 2: Number two, we're tied for number one, Albert Pujols, 6.6.
30:24
Speaker 2: Frank Robinson, 6.6. Jason Hayward, 6.4. Julio Rodriguez, 6.2. Number six,
30:34
Speaker 2: the sixth best rookie season by under-21 position player of
30:37
Speaker 2: all time right now is Kevin McGonigal at 6.0. B-War
30:41
Speaker 2: and counting, by the end of the year with another
30:44
Speaker 2: good month, he could be in the territory of Ted
30:47
Speaker 2: Williams and Albert Pujols, if not above them. In a
30:51
Speaker 2: lot of ways, it is a historic rookie season, and
30:55
Speaker 2: that's not to discredit Messick, who is really, really good.
30:58
Speaker 2: Any other year, he's probably winning this thing easily. Any
31:01
Speaker 2: other year, McGonigal's probably winning this thing easy. It's become
31:04
Speaker 2: a tighter race than I thought, but I think it
31:06
Speaker 2: would take McGonigal really falling off to lose the rookie
31:10
Speaker 2: of the year race.
31:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, obviously, I tend to agree with that.
31:15
Speaker 1: I just, having watched him on a daily basis, it's
31:17
Speaker 1: hard for me to say anything that would take away
31:20
Speaker 1: from what we've witnessed from Kevin McGonigal. And, and I
31:24
Speaker 1: would just even throw in, like, I think the chaos
31:27
Speaker 1: around him could actually work in his favor in terms
31:30
Speaker 1: of his case. It's just like, look at all of
31:32
Speaker 1: this crap that has happened to the team this year. And, and,
31:35
Speaker 1: and he has been one of two to three actually
31:41
Speaker 1: stabilizing forces on this organization. There's been a lot of
31:44
Speaker 1: disappointment with the 2026 Tigers. Nowhere on that list is
31:48
Speaker 1: Kevin McGonigal. And then I would also say credit to
31:52
Speaker 1: Jace DeLauder for having a good season, too. He's in
31:55
Speaker 1: baseball three wars, batting 294. He's a guy that figures
32:01
Speaker 1: to be in.
32:02
Speaker 2: The AL Central. If Murakami hadn't got hurt and finished
32:06
Speaker 2: with 40-plus on the division champion, it could almost bring
32:09
Speaker 2: like a, well, only the nerds are voting for the
32:13
Speaker 2: guys with more war. It should really be Murakami.
32:15
Speaker 1: Yeah.
32:15
Speaker 2: I think the time he missed on the injured list
32:18
Speaker 2: is going to notch him out of that race.
32:21
Speaker 1: And not specific to this race, this graphic was going
32:23
Speaker 1: around today on X. This is a pretty phenomenal rookie
32:27
Speaker 1: class overall in Major League Baseball, including a couple Oklahoma
32:32
Speaker 1: State pokes on that list as well. I hope Kevin
32:38
Speaker 1: McGonigal can fend him off, but It's gotten to the
32:41
Speaker 1: point where, like, I don't necessarily feel like you're wrong.
32:44
Speaker 2: Just checked his B-Board went down to 5.8 after the
32:47
Speaker 2: last couple days. So, to catch Ted Williams, he's going
32:51
Speaker 2: to have to get going.
32:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, it would be great to
32:56
Speaker 1: see for him to finish the year strong and healthy because, again,
33:00
Speaker 1: he's on, you know, he's probably at, like, what, almost
33:03
Speaker 1: twice the amount of games he's used to playing in
33:06
Speaker 1: a year.
33:06
Speaker 2: Yeah.
33:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, so hopefully Peck being up there gets him a
33:12
Speaker 1: little bit of relief from shortstop, and I know he
33:14
Speaker 1: had the error last night, but I have all the
33:17
Speaker 1: faith in the world with Kevin McGonigal. But given the
33:19
Speaker 1: year that Messick's having, if someone wants to pound the
33:22
Speaker 1: table for him, I can't really tell you you're wrong,
33:25
Speaker 1: per se, because he's been that good. All right, anything else, Cody,
33:30
Speaker 1: before we jet out of here?
33:32
Speaker 2: No, one of the many lessons of this season, you
33:34
Speaker 2: have to play the whole schedule and Who will win
33:37
Speaker 2: the Rookie of the Year? Let's see where we're at
33:39
Speaker 2: after they play the whole schedule. The Tigers, they still
33:43
Speaker 2: have the schedule to play. It feels really bad right now.
33:46
Speaker 2: What if they just win four in a row against Cleveland?
33:49
Speaker 2: Wouldn't that be fitting? All of a sudden, just get
33:52
Speaker 2: everyone's hopes up just barely. After a brutal series.
33:57
Speaker 1: Pull me back in.
33:58
Speaker 2: Pull me back in.
33:59
Speaker 1: Pull Mike Steckley back in. All right, you guys can
34:03
Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram and Twitter at CodyStevenHagen. I'm at
34:06
Speaker 1: Kieran underscore Steckley. Pod page at TigerTerritory underscore YouTube, Apple, Spotify.
34:11
Speaker 1: You guys know what to do. We appreciate all of you.
34:12
Speaker 1: So for CodyStevenHagen, I'm Kieran Steckley. Everybody have a great day.