Latest / Skin Anarchy / Disrupting The Deodorant Discussion with Co-Founder of NEZ , Sherry Jhawar

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Disrupting The Deodorant Discussion with Co-Founder of NEZ , Sherry Jhawar · Skin Anarchy

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: This is your host, Ekta, and I have such a wonderful guest today.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: I am so honored and so excited to be hosting her.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Truly one of her biggest fans.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: I really admire her for her work in the industry in so many ways.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: She's basically seen the beauty industry inside and out, so many different angles.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm really excited about this episode and just how much we're gonna learn here.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Sherry Jower, who is the founder of Nez Deodorant, which is quickly becoming my favorite deodorant.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome to the show, Sherry.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to host you.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for that wonderful introduction.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to be here.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm such a fan of the podcast.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: I listen to it regularly and I learn so much from you and your guests about things in the beauty industry and skincare and more and just in business.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I'm a huge fan of you.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even get to mention that you have your own PR firm and you've done so much work and you were behind EO's.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lot of you out there might remember EOS, the amazing lip balm.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was like a circular, like you were involved in that, and you've just done so many things, Sherry.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it just always like blows my mind how much you know about this industry just from the perspectives you've had.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to actually like um have you tell us a little bit about your your background, if you don't mind, you know, just so the listeners get to know you a little bit.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I mean, I hope this helps some listeners sort of see that there's no clear linear path or in marketing and beauty for everyone and stuff, because I actually started my career in finance and investment banking at Goldman Sachs and worked in mergers and acquisitions there, doing some work both in energy and power and in consumer.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Clearly, I was a little bit more excited about the consumer than the energy and power.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why after I graduated from business school, I really wanted to dabble my hands working in actual consumer products brand.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so I started my career in marketing after business school at L'Oreal and worked in New York at the L'Oreal Paris division, which is one of their brands that sells through like mass channels and drug channels like Target Walmart, Walgreens, CBS, and really realized that like, wow, I found my calling.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like I love marketing.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's how my brain works.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's I love I love storytelling.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: There's actually a lot of analytics in marketing too.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I was able to use sort of my finance and analytical side of my brain too.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: And and just loved beauty and then had the opportunity to join a company, pre-revenue, pre-products, pre-everything.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's a lot of people ask me, they're like, oh, well, you must have seen the product and you knew it was a winner, and that's why you joined.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no, nothing was developed when I joined.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: I just took a total leap of faith because I liked the guys who were founding the company and they didn't really have much other than they wanted to disrupt what they thought were boring categories that needed disruption.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: And this was 2008.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: So a long time ago, now that I'm aging myself 15 years ago.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: And one of those categories was lip balm.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so that company was EOS, and I was the first employee under the founders pre-revenue, pre-products, pre-everything.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: I like to joke that I'm one of the chickens that helped lay the egg-shaped lip balm.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: And as you said, there was a time when that lip balm had a hold on everyone.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: It was kind of insane how many EOSs people were collecting, getting.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was epic.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was epic.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I guess that's kind of what people are doing today with Summer Friday's lip balm.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um Z is collecting those by the droves.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: And millennials, when they were the age of what Gen Z is today, when millennials were in 2013, 14, and 15, were collecting EOses, like, you know, you couldn't put one out and keep it in stock.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so I love Mariana and what she's built and and Lauren Glory's what she's built.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like, I just love that brand so much that I always think, like, oh my God, they're like the new EOs when it comes to lip, like everyone's collecting.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: They really are, though.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're right.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: They really are.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's really, yeah, it's everywhere.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's really incredible.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, I was at EOS for just under eight years, and I loved what I did.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: We grew the business so fully and internationally and some other product categories and stuff.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, the lip balm was sort of its hero at that time.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I loved working for the founders.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: They weren't looking to exit the business.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: They were having a lot of fun running it.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: They had self-funded it and all sorts of stuff too.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I it had grown a lot and I was looking for my next challenge.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: I tend to be a person who likes things when they're still small and nascent, and I can still do the work because I really like to do the work.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: I like to be part of it all and get my hands dirty.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, I also had been in New York for a long time.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I was looking for you know an opportunity to get back to the West Coast where my family lives, my parents, my brother, and his family.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so one of the ways that EOS had like skyrocketed sort of pop culture consciousness was a lot of celebrity and now they're called influencers at the time in the mid-2000s, they were called bloggers, but partnerships with those people before there was really a marketplace for it.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: No one was paying people to do social media posts and things like that.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: There was no hashtag ad.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: There was no guidelines.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: There was no one was doing it.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: And we did a lot of different partnerships and we did a lot of seating and a lot of things, and we had a lot of celebrity fans organically.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: We had a lot that we fueled for the brand.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I really realized that my superpower, sort of when it comes to marketing, is understanding social, but understanding it both as someone who was learning it the same time that um millennials and Gen Z were learning it digitally native.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was certainly not.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in Gen X, but I was learning, I was deep in social in 2008 and nine, um, and understanding Facebook and Twitter really at their core.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like when it was still like you're poking people on Facebook and like it to win.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the things were so strange back then and stuff.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Which I'm attempting to do now is can carry.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm attempting to do what you're up to.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so we were doing all that, but I was putting the discipline of more structured marketing behind what I was doing.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like I always said in 2010 and 11, in 11 when Instagram launched, I said, this will be media.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: This will become our book list.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of flighting a print plan, I'm gonna flight a social plan.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like I will partner with this celebrity, and then I'll partner with this influencer, and then I'll partner with this person.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I started to think about it the way I did print advertising back in like 2008 and nine.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so PR influencer, celebrity social became kind of something that I really became very passionate about and started an agency called Blended Strategy Group with my business partner, Allison Stadter, who comes from talent management and really understood deal structuring and talent really well and has deep relationships and is very trusted in that.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I always say if you consider like a Venn diagram, if you think of a Venn diagram, her expertise is talent, deal structuring, human-based marketing.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: I always say, like knowing how to build humans.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: And mine is product marketing, storytelling around products, and how to build a product brand.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: The crossover of that Venn diagram sort of shows this like crossover of pop culture meets product and our ability to help brands and talent, help entities navigate the world of partnerships.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so Blended has services across PR, influencer, celebrity, social media, and paid media, you know, with clients as large as a Coca-Cola, to rising brands like a Real Skincare, to like a Toadie by Sofia Vegara or a Give by Gwen Stefani, and everything in between.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: And with that though, like my bug got bitten again about like the product side of things, like as much as I love love and agency.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: I never thought I was gonna be a founder myself.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like I do like working for other brands and people and things like that.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: I like driving other people's visions and missions and stuff like that.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm on the board of a couple brands like Live Tinted by Deepacamutiala and a couple other things and stuff, but I had this idea that I couldn't shake in the deodorant category.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I just felt really strongly that there needed to be a different way of storytelling around deodorant.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: It is really boring, that category.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: It is very functional, and everything else in beauty and personal care has been evolved except for deodorant.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, the only way deodorant has been evolved is longer wear or set, and that's it.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, but why do I need 72 hours of long wear deodorant?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Am I keeping?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Am I at Burning Man?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is happening?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: That like I need 72 hours of protection all the time.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's just weird.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: I just thought it was strange.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, so we went from eight hours to 12 hours to 24 hours, 48 hours now, 72 hours.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, so that's the innovation is long wear when I'm not quite sure why long wear matters so much.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh like this is an ellipse that lasts.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: This is like this is deodorant.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: You last it the day, but also like even if you like we zhuzh up things during the day, right?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like hairspray is supposed to hold, but like if I'm running around all day and I'm going from like place to place and I have a meeting here, or if I'm a teenager and I'm in school and I'm in school for the day, and then I want to go out with my friends after school, like I may touch up my hair, like put a little flask of texturizing spray.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, like we do juz up, even if something's meant to have long wearing hold, or like I mean, you put on lipstick, you're gonna eat it at lunch.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna end up being when you eat like your lunch, like your lip or not.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care what it says, lip stain, long wearing, all this stuff.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you eat and drink at lunch, half of it will be gone no matter how much it is going to last.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, why is it so weird?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Why am I pig pen if I reapply deodorant?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why am I some like stinky, smelly, dirty human?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, I just wanted to freshen up.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: I might put on fragrance or something like that.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I just kept thinking about the category being like, it hasn't evolved, it's long wear or it's scent, and it's like, okay, I get it.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, obviously, like we all love great scents, and sense is very important in this category, but like, how do we think about it differently?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when I dove in a lot deeper.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: I started talking to some dermatologists and other people in the chemistry world and stuff about how deodorant works and how we actually sweat too.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I care a lot about this category also because I'm a breast cancer survivor and I'm 12 years in remission, knock on wood.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so 12 years ago, the one thing I did change, and I'm not saying aluminum caused my breast cancer or anything like that.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: I just needed to make better choices for myself.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I just thought, why put aluminum under your armpit where there's lymph nodes?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, yeah, you don't need it.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Why even put it in your body?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Why put it in your body?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's actually stopped, like for those who are listening who don't know what aluminum does, like aluminum actually stops your body from sweating.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Clearly, our body needs to sweat, like it needs to release some sort of things through the sweat that do not belong in our body.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, why would we put something on our body that stops it from doing something that it naturally should be doing?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: We wouldn't put something that makes us not make saliva, right?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's something that we need.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like and so exactly.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you're inhibiting like that, just to add to that, Sherry, like I don't think people understand.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, when you stop something from happening, you're stopping a lot of other things downstream as well.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, exactly.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just like a one and done where you're just a one and done.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, you don't know where those things that were supposed to be released from your body are now going and being processed.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: And are they being processed?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I'm not saying it caused the breast cancer to anything like that.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Just felt like this doesn't feel like the right thing to be putting on my body, like, especially not someone who's been through chemo, radiation, and surgery.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not like, and again, lymph nodes are there, it's near your ear, breast tissue, and things like that.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: So 12 years ago, there were very few products on the market in this category of aluminum-free.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: And for the 12 years, I've tried everything out there.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I've really been appreciative of the evolution that has come and the brands that have come out in the last couple of years, particularly, that have started to make real impact and help make strides in this.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: But what was still missing is something that helps actually make this category a little bit more thoughtful, which is you actually, as I talk to dermatologists, you actually sweat through two different glands.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: So those apocrine glands were more anxiety-based and stress-based sweat comes from.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that tends to be the stinkier sweat.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you ever notice if you're really nervous for a date, or if you're really nervous for a meeting or an interview or something like that, or a first day of school or something, like you might feel a little stinky.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's because that sweat is thicker, stays on your body longer, can't evaporate as fast.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that tends to get smellier because it's interacting with the bacteria on your body.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: A crean sweat, a cream glands, and the sweat that comes from that is more from things that are external, movement, heat to when you're working out or if you're sitting in the sun.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: If you ever think back and you're like, oh yeah, when I was a really hot day, I just felt really wet.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't actually get that smelly, but I felt really wet.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: I felt uncomfortable because the sweat was dripping down my body.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you're working out, like same thing.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: That sweat is wet.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: It evaporates faster, or it can be absorbed more quickly to event malodor.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, wait, this is a category where scientifically we sweat through two gigafer glands, but yet it's being sold as a one size fits all.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Put on my coconut vanilla in the morning.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Don't think about it, or why that product?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: We put skincare on for morning, night, overnight regimens.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: This will work faster over when you're asleep and your skin cells are regenerating.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Use this under this.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: We day part so much of skincare and hair care, and we do it for oily skin, dry skin, textured hair, frizzy hair, fine hair.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like everything in beauty is very targeted to why you need it, except for this category that I was like, wait, scientifically, we sweat through two different glands.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is yeah, like we do.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: This is a different consistency, like consistency.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's like I want a product.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: If I know I'm gonna have a day that I'm a little nervous about, like I have a big meeting or I have a date or something, or just whatever it is that like I feel like my anxiety is gonna be a little bit higher, then I want a product that's gonna help me with that type of sweat.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: And if I'm gonna be at the beach or if I'm gonna be doing a workout, or even if it's a work day, but I know I'm gonna be running around a lot for that day, like I'm doing an event or something, and it's gonna be a lot of running around.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: I want something that's made for that.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we created NES and launched it a little over a year ago.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's zen spelled backwards because I kept saying I want deodorant to be that moment for yourself when you're thinking about the day you have ahead of you.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's the day gonna entail?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to put this deodorant on for that day.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so the branding team I was working with, they're like, it's kind of like your Zen moment.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, yeah, like kind of.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so No, I love that though.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: It does, it comes across though, as a consumer.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I love the way that you've designed that experience.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I wanted to actually say that to you because I feel like for me personally as a consumer, good deodorant, right?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like the ones that you really love the scent, it becomes part of your fragrance profile as a person.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's a signature, and it's a much more than just obviously you're serving a purpose here, right?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: You're serving the purpose of it being a deodorant.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, we have such a buzz around fragrance right now.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's talking about it.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you know, I don't want to smell like everybody else.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then pick the right deodorant.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's gonna help you a lot.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's so true.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so funny you say that.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you're saying that because that has been a lot of the feedback because our fragrances are very, very thought out.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, they're clean fragrances, no phthalates, no parabens, no endocrine disruptors, none of that stuff.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: They are very clean fragrances.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: They're not essential oils because as much as I know everyone sort of is like, well, I'd rather have essential oils, like essential oils actually tend to have a lot more allergens.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: And we wanted something that was as low allergen or allergen-free and hypoallergenic formulas and fragrances and stuff like that.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so while I know sometimes people are like, oh my God, you have fragrance, and the media is like, synthetic fragrance is bad.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: You can make synthetic fragrance that is very clean and not bad and smells amazing.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And we designed every fragrance to correspond with the moment.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: So our board meeting blend has fragrances that are more focusing.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And because that tends to be for your nervous or your board meeting type thing, whether it's your first day of school, like I said, or a big test day, like you're taking your SATs, or it's a big meeting or something like that, are date ready, are more like fine fragrance-inspired scents.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like they have Santals, they have like there's one with tobacco flour and fig and burgermont, and one with Palo Santo, and those are just definitely more inspired by fine fragrance, and they can really replace fragrance.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: And we've had those feedback from customers and saying, like, I am so obsessed with this fragrance that I just want to keep reapplying it because it smells so good.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I want to put it on my it smells so good.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: We've created the ritual out of deodorant of not just it's a chore, you enjoy it.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: So many brands have done this in oral care and have done such a great job of doing this in oral care.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: And when you look at brands like High Smile that have now really disrupted how oral care is thought about in the flavor profiles.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they have Willy Wonka toothpaste.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who would have thought about a chocolate toothpaste and stuff?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: And like, I bought that as a consumer.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: I bought that.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't work on that brand, I don't eat anything.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: I bought it because I was like, wait, I want chocolate toothpaste.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, does it is it really gonna make my mouth feel fresh?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it does.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: You can have something that still smells like fragrance, but still be a deodorant that works.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we've created that in our date ready.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then our workout sessions are very energizing scents so that like you get revved up for your workout.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: And again, you can use any of them at any time, but they're all three different formulas.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're actually customized with different ingredients for the sweat occasion.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that was really my sort of big idea.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I was really excited about it and I couldn't shake it.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I went to I mean, it's brilliant.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's brilliant though.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: I really, really, really love that you brought this into a category, like you said, that was kind of dead.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I can't remember the last time before I started Scoop Care Anarchy.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: I never looked at theodorant.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was just something I just picked up and you just picked up and bought, yeah.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like you never think about it.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, and like again, like that's kind of how like Fem care was too.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: We just picked up and bought whatever our mom or whoever introduced us to Fem.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly told us to buy.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: And now you've got brands like Real and Honeypot and Cora and Lola all changing the game in that category and and stuff.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, oral care has been shifted, but deodorant, the way it's shifted is long wear and scent.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, there's gotta be another evolution to this, and that's what we wanted to bring in, Nez.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I went to Allison, who's sort of my partner in all things business, my work wife in blended, and also my work wife and Nez.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I said, Look, I can't shake this, I want to launch this brand.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Will you do it with me?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: And we launched this a little over a year ago, and it's been really exciting.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, entrepreneurship is really hard.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I was gonna ask you that.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how has that been for you?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like as a transition, because I know entrepreneurship is like a whole thing, like on its own.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: You have other things, you have so many like huge things I feel like that you're always doing.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just like, how does she do this?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do I do it all?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I know, I know that like sometimes I end up like Humpty Dumpty and fall off the wall and break.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: All the Kingsman have to put me back together again because like I overextend, because I get passionate and eager about a lot of things, but I really love what I do.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: When this brand launched, I did start to streamline back some of the other things that I'm involved with.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And especially about like six, seven months ago, I really streamlined back my involvement in some of the day-to-day of my agency and stuff.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: And really, we have such an incredible senior leadership team there, and an incredible CFO, COO, who we were able to make president of the agency.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, Allison's incredibly great partner and CEO of the agency.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I created some space for myself to be able to put the focus on Nez and keep a couple of the things that I work on, like Give by Gwen Stefani or Live Tinted by Deepacamutiella, like those brands like still in my purview and things that I touch in a lot of different ways and stuff.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: But it's been hard.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I say this with all the humility in the world of it's not that I thought it was going to be easy, but it's like I know a lot of the pitfalls that come with starting a brand because like having been with EOS from day one and seeing so much, like I have so much small company experience.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: But no matter what, no matter how much experience you have, it doesn't matter.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's still still so much learning to be done.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: The world keeps changing, marketing keeps changing, retailers keep evolving, and you have to just keep knowing that.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: And like there's always going to be something that you didn't know, or you know, I mean, we were developing this product during COVID, and our full size is a custom pill-shaped package that we designed because it was super ergonomic, meant to like yeah, it's amazing.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: I love it, by the way.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, fits really nicely in your hand, hugs the curves of your armpit, all these things that we sort of felt like would be really just a nice touch to the product and stuff.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: But because that is a custom thing, those things tend to be made overseas in Asia.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: And with COVID and supply chain the way it was, it was like all these delays and all these things, and some things that you have to compromise on and different things like that.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so that got like severely delayed in launch timing.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why we launched solely with the minis first and use that as a way to at least allow people to try the product and try different scents more easily and things.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: But you have to be ready to pivot.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be ready to roll with the punches, you have to be ready to realize success isn't overnight at all.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like we hear about a lot of wins and like we hear about the thing of like, oh my God, this brand launched and so-and-so influencer posted about it and it went gangbuster and they sold out and stuff like that.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: But always remember you don't really know what that means.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: What does sell out mean?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: How many did they all the things that come with it and stuff, and don't feel this need to compare yourself to that and be like, gosh, I didn't sell out or I didn't do this, or why are my sales only this?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's journey is their own.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I always tell myself the fact that anyone has the gumption and desire and hustle to create something and bring it to market is success in itself.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then being part of people who are doing that and supporting them is success.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's lots of ways to deem success, but it is definitely, and again, it's not that I didn't think it was gonna be hard.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that with the market the way it is and COVID happening and everything when you're in development and everything, like things are really hard and definitely not for the light of heart.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's a tough market.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, I know, and I really actually commend you though, because your minis aren't just minis.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to actually bring that up.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I love the Nez minis.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: There's a I love the minis.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think the whole category on its own.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: I really my vision for Nez with the minis, and I said this to one of the founders of EOS.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm still close to both of them, and one of the founders of EOS, I said to him, I said, I want NES.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Minis to be the EOS of Deodorant.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I want everyone to have those in every bag, in their desk drawer at work, in their coat pocket on the slope, skiing or snowboarding at the beach.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: I want them to have one in their car in case they're going to the gym and they forgot to like I want one everywhere because they're so cute, they're so compact, you can't have enough of them.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: You can get a bunch of different scents and they're just fun.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, I think that the minis are a huge category in itself and a huge evolution.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: And while other brands have minis and stuff, I think again, because this is meant to be like, hey, think about a day part it nez up during the day if you want, like use workout session in the morning.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: If after your day of work you're about to go out to dinner or a date or something like that, or drinks with girlfriends or guy friends or whatever, just nez up, put on your date ready.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: The fragrances blend fine together.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna have some weird smell or something like that.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: The formulas are always date ready now, though.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks to you.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: I know that's one of my colleagues who I work really closely with and is a great marketer too and helps me a lot with NES.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I work with on a couple other clients of ours and stuff.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hers a favorite is Date Ready too.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: And she's an avid tennis player.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like she plays tennis like three or four times a week.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so she actually was sweating, you know.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: And she swears by date ready.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, I know I shouldn't be using workouts ash because I'm a tennis player, but she's like, I just am so obsessed with the fragrance of date ready and all the formulas like they all are gonna work.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like none of them are not gonna work for any experience.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that again, some are tailor-made for a little bit of the different experiences.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like date ready has charcoal in it, and that's gonna keep you dry.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's got like magnesium to mall odor, it's got all the ingredients in it and stuff.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: And if that's the set you love, use it, use it all day, every day.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, no, it's great, it's a great option.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think my favorite part about this, all of it, like the whole brand, is just in my honest opinion, it's a home run.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: But like, especially for me, I love date ready as well.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I know for me, when I'm going to the hospital, if I have just a really crazy day, like the minis have come in.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like have it in your white coat.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's what one of my girlfriends says all the time, who physician in Northern California.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: She's always like, Oh, yeah, I just keep these in my white coat, and they're so great because she's running around from patient to patient so much and everything.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was gonna say everyone kind of has their favorite.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like Alice and I were on Hillary Kerr's Second Life podcast a couple months ago, and she loves board meeting bright.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's her favorite, and she's just obsessed with that one.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, whatever you like, you're gonna find one.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: If it's because of the scent, that's great because all the formulas are great, they're all custom formulas, they're not like other formulas out there on the marketplace.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: They were made by us, and we really like that was the one thing Allison said to me.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because, like I said, I've been using clean deodorant for 12 years now.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: So my body's very adjusted to an aluminum-free deodorant.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Allison, when I went her and I said, Hey, I want to launch this brand, I want to start developing this brand.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to be a co-founder with me.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: She said, That's great.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's, you know, I love you.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's no one I trust more than you when it comes to building this brand.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: But she's like, I'm gonna be honest with you.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: I use an aluminum-based deodorant.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: I tried and true, I use this deodorant.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, first of all, why do you do that?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, people who are survivors, not just me, others in your life, and like this is crazy.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, I know, I know.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: I just haven't found one that works.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then my pet peeve is B.O.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: She says to me.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, I hate B.O.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to have it, and I don't want to be around people who have it.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I got I get it.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no B S.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I feel you, Allison.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: I feel you.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: I know what she means.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, say Edo to B O.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: I got it.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, she was like, You have to formulate something that works.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, I've tried them all, so it has to work because I'm telling you I couldn't convert to anything that exists out there.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, and so COVID had started.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: So she always jokes, like, luckily we were in COVID.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: So in case she smelled, she wasn't out in the wild and stuff like that.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so I built a deodorant wall in my house during COVID because I just needed to sort of stare at things and see what's out there and sort of understand what I was trying to build and stuff.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so I started sending her different products, different formula samples that I was getting developed and stuff like that.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we really formulated something that she wears every day now and is comfortable with that.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Since the day we formulated to the final version, she's never gone back.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: She's never missed, like, oh my God, I need my aluminum, like, or I need that product still and stuff.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that was like a really good testament of someone who was tried and true to aluminum.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then she has three young boys who are now at that age of starting to need deodorant and stuff.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: And she feels a lot better too about giving a 13-year-old, 11-year-old deodorant that is clean and safe to stick in their sports bags, to make sure they have it in all of their like in their locker, in their sports bags, like all these things because they are running around and playing at school.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: They go to their sports, like they're boys, they're gonna be smelly.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, like how exactly.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Boys are boys will be boys.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Boys will be boys.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, though, I want to bring this up because I think it's something that like literally no one for some reason is talking about, especially in like a category like deodorant, is like, you know, we always talk about like the skin, it's like the largest organ in the body and all that, yeah, yada yada, right?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: But then here's the thing though, we have the most blood supply going to the skin too.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, like when you're talking about aluminum, it was like obviously the light bulb goes off.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like consumers, we don't think about the fact that, yeah, your skin is the largest organ, which also means it has larger surface area, meaning there's the highest amount of blood vessels going to it because it needs that blood supply.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's how you cool down these glands and all of that heat is dissipated through here.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: So the absorption rate through the skin is significantly higher than anything else.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: If you really talk about using like OTC products anywhere else, your skin is where things are gonna get absorbed and they're going to go into your bloodstream and they're gonna cause an effect.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter what it is.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, when I look at things like clean beauty, right?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like Sherry, we've seen like over the years, Clean Beauty has gone into so many different directions, right?
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was like at the pinnacle for a long time, then people were hating on it.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, in reality, there's a real place for it because when you do absorb things through your skin, they do go into your bloodstream, and then your liver has to deal with it.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Very true.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a no-brainer, I feel like it really is, and like that's the thing.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like their ingredients that 20 years ago, 15 years ago were mainstay ingredients, parabens, sulfate, things like that that now are just like table stakes.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you don't ask if this is sulfate free.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's just most new brands are.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: You don't ask if this has parabens, it's kind of just given that everything kind of is paraben-free and stuff, and like triclosan, micro beads, there's so many things that have evolved that I fundamentally believe that over the next 10 to 15 years, aluminum will be a thing of the past.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Again, like it stops us from sweating, but like there are products out there that can absorb sweat fast enough now and make you feel wet and uncomfortable, and then help with the malodor.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Then why put this on, like you said, our biggest living organ, our skin, then absorb into our body and then into our bloodstream or into our like where our lymph nodes are in our armpit.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Also, by the way, our skin in our armpit is some of the thinnest skin.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like the skin on our hands or our face.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like our face is really thick skin.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: The skin under our armpit is like much more fragile skin.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you happen to be a person that shaves the hair under your armpit, then you're also dealing with the fact that like you've caused potential damage to that skin because I'm not saying razors are you know bad or you're cutting yourself, but still we are wounding our skin when we shave.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like we've caused brain to our skin.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's no debating that and stuff.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: So you may not see it on your body that you have abrasions under your armpit because it's not like the razors cause something like wild or something to happen, but there are they're tiny, it's like microneedling or whatever.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's like there's tiny things.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: So you've made that skin even more vulnerable if you do shave under your armpit.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so we spent a lot of time testing these products, both with people who shave and people who don't shave, both because of like sensitivity of the skin, but also like I had heard a lot of feedback from people who don't shave under their armpit.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the aluminum-free deodorants in market tug.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: They're very stiff, they're very hard formulas.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's plug on the hair or the skin, and it wouldn't feel comfortable applying the deodorant.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we created a really soft skincare-based formula, coconut oil based, has vitamin E, has she butter, good nourishing ingredients while still being effective and still being a solid stick because there are a lot of cream-based products out there, and they are, you know, some are very great products, but also the problem is that even if they rub it in and it's a whole thing and it doesn't feel as easy and stuff like that.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's, you know, it's another thing.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then you're like finding a way for it to drive.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's a place for everything.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: I never, you know, I always say, but like we tried to think about what's the most consumer-friendly approach, and it's like solid stick, but a really soft formula that feels good on the skin, that works, that smells amazing, and that looks cute on your shelf and looks cute in your bag.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're not gonna be embarrassed pulling out a mini nez.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's a cute little thing and make that accessible for people.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so we've just been slowly getting the word out about the brand and excited to like start talking to retailers over the next couple months and really hoping that we can get retailer attention and that they understand the reasoning for this, that this is something very different than there.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like again, I work not at all at this brand, but I have such admiration for the brand function of beauty and hair and how it disrupted hair so much.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: 15 years ago, no one would have thought like someone would mix, buy a base shampoo, buy little vials, and blend their own shampoo at home, like shaking it off.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: 15 years ago, people be like, that's crazy.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's so much work, no one's gonna do that.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: How do you merchandise that?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: How do you explain this?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: And look at what function of beauty has created, both at like Target and now it's Sephora.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's an incredible, incredible brand.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I have am so impressed by what they built.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I want to be in deodorant.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be a brand that brings customization and personalization to your deodorant experience, brings lifestyle, wardrobing.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Think about your day and mix and match your deodorant to that day, match your mood to the moment.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're going out paying pickleball, great, put on your workout.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like and match exactly.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: No, but I think it's so it's just like I feel like it's second nature as well.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's easy to incorporate.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm already like, I mean, you've converted me already, by the way.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a convert, Nez is what I use at this point for my deodorant, and I absolutely love it.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I obviously the fragrance is phenomenal on its own.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I know we're all really diving into fragrances right now, which is great.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, the fragrance is there, but also just because of what you said, where it is a nourishing formula, it doesn't tug.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think one thing that came to mind, Carrie, when you were talking about that was that apricrine glands, going back to your original point that you had made about the different types of sweat that we're experiencing, apricrine glands are making a milky consistency of like fluid.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, like what they're creating is actually more closely related to what your hair follicles are naturally excreting.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, you want something natural, yeah, you want something nourishing there because you don't want to irritate your hair follicles because they're gonna just exacerbate the situation at that point.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really cool that you guys have created a formula that's very conducive to keeping them kind of nice and healthy instead of irritating them and tugging on them.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: And those things actually play a huge role when it comes to human physiology.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think with beauty brands, oftentimes, like you know, I talk a lot about skincare here on the podcast, but we kind of forget these things that there is a thing called physical shear stress on like hair follicles and your skin and stuff, and they do elicit certain responses.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that really ties in to what you've done with the formula itself.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you are somebody that shaves, or even if you don't shave, you don't want to irritate those hair follicles, period.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's not something that you should do, and especially with your deodorant, it should have a nourishing effect because you want the hair growing back to be healthy, but you don't want it to be worse off than it was when you shaved it off.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly that's such an interesting comparison, information and details on apicrine like glands and how they work, and like you said, that milky consistency and like how it can even affect the scalp and other parts of the body and stuff like that, because that's exactly it.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like that milky consistency is what's thicker.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, that's why people it tends to stay on the body a bit longer and not evaporate as fast.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why people feel like they smell more when they're stressed, like oh, I smell myself, or when there are hormones and things that come from that nature and stuff like that, and everything.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's exciting, it's fun.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, I love what I do.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: I love marketing, I love storytelling.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: I really like what I call boring categories and disruption to them, whether I'm part of those stories or I admire it as a marketer, a consumer from afar.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've had the opportunity for the last eight years to work on Ollie vitamins as a client, and it's been such a fun client for me.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: And in the early years, when it was private before Unilever bought it, and Eric Ryan first launched that brand, and he's such an innovation genius in what he's done with Method, Ollie Welly, and so many different brands.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: That was a category that turned supplements on its head.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now, watching Love Wellness do it with sort of female health-based supplements, so many things like I talked about in hair care with functional beauty or high smile and oral care and things that I never worked on but just admire.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: I really want to do this and make something exciting and great for the consumer that works, that they love, that they are happy to use, that makes their day feel like, oh, like this was part of my regimen, my personal care and beauty regimen, and I like it.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: And also do something better for our bodies and healthy.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then at the same time, do something that gives back.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been really proud of the fact that we partnered with the National Breast Cancer Foundation for this brand.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it was really important to me.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: We picked a foundation that specifically helps people who don't have access to screenings like breast exams, mammograms, sonograms, or treatment due to the lack of healthcare privileges that they might have.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: They might not have insurance and things like that.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: And just being able to help give back.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: So last year we donated 1% of our sales to them.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: And we also, over the course of the last year of being in market, we also donated almost 15,000 units of product, which was like$225,000,$250,000 worth of product to them and other organizations like Susan G.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Coman and other organizations, whether it's breast cancer walks, care packages, things like that, really wanted to do our part as best as possible in terms of giving back.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, the National Breast Cancer Foundation and what they do in terms of helping people get access to medical care was so important to me because our country is still figuring out the healthcare system and how we make that workable to people.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you, as a physician, know better than anyone what's happening in healthcare.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, I realized I love my doctors so much, Memorial Sloan Kettering, who treated me, who gave me my chemo, gave me my radiation, did my surgery, everything like that.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the day, early detections would save my life.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: The treatment saved my life too.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: But if it wasn't detected early, the treatment has a harder time being as effective.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: And there's bigger uphold battles.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I was very fortunate that I had great insurance.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: I had access to healthcare.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I do not take that for granted for one bit that I had those privileges.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I did it, it could have been a very different story for me.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I want this brand to help allow people who don't have that access, get that access and do my part.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: What little I can do, I want to do.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think what you're doing is just phenomenal though, because I couldn't agree with you more that there is a huge, huge need for like brands to partner with like meaningful organizations.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just feel like if you're gonna build something that you know that is gonna go out into the world, like there needs to also be a message attached to it.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you've partnered with meaningful organizations.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's huge to me.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I really, really believe in what you're building, obviously, because of your experience, but more so because you've been through this journey.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: You had breast cancer, you fought it, you went through it.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: I always find it so interesting when I'm interviewing, like, you know, from the founder's perspective, like when they've actually fought a real battle like this, where that has become inspiration for what they're creating.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's just it hits differently, is my point.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: It really makes you understand that this product isn't just about another beauty product out here.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: This is coming from a place of a different level of understanding that unfortunately this person, you discovered this through going through one of the hardest things you could go through as a human being, you know?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's huge.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's absolutely huge.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: So for me as a consumer, when I look at that, I'm like, absolutely I support this, you know, because this person knows more than anybody else what is going to actually be relevant here, you know what I mean?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: And to like to try to come from a place of prevention rather than, like you said, like later on you're discovering things and later on it might be too late.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, people need to have that prevention mindset.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think with our industry, we're producing so many products every year that brands really need to get behind this vision of what we can do to accelerate this message in the community that do what it takes to be preventative in your life.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like do the things that you need to do so that later on you don't have something that's a downstream effect because you've been using the wrong products or you've not been researching the products that you've been using.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's a huge, huge topic.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just I really love that you have utilized that adversity in your life and you've put it into such a beautiful thing and applied it in such a beautiful way.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like I really commend you for that.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's really admirable.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: So hats off for that.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so, so much.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: You really summarized all of it so perfectly, and I so appreciate that.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it really is something that came straight from personal experience and the heart and everything.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I just I believe so much in this brand and I want it to be something successful.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: And like success for me isn't because of like, oh, that's financial success for me.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's because success means people are buying into the concept and they love the product.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: And like that's what matters most to me is that aspect.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because then the rest comes with business.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, of course, I want this to make money and be a successful business, but it's like if people love it and they buy it and they buy it again and again, then that means we've created something great.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's what matters most.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's when you know if you have a great business.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: The rest you can figure out in terms of how to make it a successful business and and stuff.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: And those are part of the challenges of entrepreneurship.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so many of your other guests have gone through their journeys and built such successful businesses.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope to follow in their footsteps.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you're the golden touch.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, you're on your podcast today.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: You're giving me too much credit.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, honestly, though, you are the golden touch.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: For everyone listening, honestly, like Sherry, I really admire you.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the amount of success that you've had in your life and your career and all the amazing things you you've already done or are continuing to do.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's really, really inspiring.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to end this episode on that note.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I want you to offer some words of wisdom for anyone tuning in that might want to go on like the entrepreneur journey or even in PR communications, anything that you could offer that would help like the young professionals out there.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like every day when I'm looking on Reddit or something, people are just so confused these days.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do I take my career further?
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: What do I do?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: So anything that you could offer in terms of just advice.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think one is network, obviously, that's like, you know, incredibly important.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, reaching out to people, going to events, thinking about things, whether it's industry conferences and just like, you know, going up to people, introducing yourselves at like the happy hours that are happening at sometimes these conferences and stuff, like it goes a long way.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you never know when that relationship could come back in the future where you're just like, oh, wait, well, like I remember meeting so and so.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let me look them up on LinkedIn and reach out to them.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it makes it that much easier.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, one is that don't be shy.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the relationships that have mattered most in my life and ended up making the most impact in my career are ones that came from a cold email from me to someone or a cold email from someone to me.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my own business partner was a cold email to me.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we knew enough people in common that she referenced, saying, Oh, I've heard your name from this person, this person, but we never met before.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: And now look at us, we have two businesses together.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: My job at EOS came from cold emailing someone saying, I like what you're doing, I'd love to learn more.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: And while that business wasn't a fit for me that I'd cold emailed about, he was like, Well, there's another business that I know is being developed that I think it could be a great fit for because your background's perfect for it.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to meet the people who are developing that?
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that turned out to be EOS.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: So don't be shy.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: The worst thing that can happen is either no one responds or they write back saying, I don't have the time.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's okay.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't mean they don't like or you're bad or you're not worthy.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's just people are busy, but at least you gave it a shot.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because for every 20 people who might not respond or might say, I don't have the time, there could be one person who does, and that person could change your life.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: And the second is just be resilient.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: You may get nos.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: You may like if you believe passionately in what you're doing, do it and go for it and figure out what you want to do to make it come to reality, whether that's starting your own business, whether that's getting a job in a certain industry, whether that's switching careers.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people come to me about the aspect of me switching from finance to marketing and how I did that and how I navigated that, or leaving a big company to go to small company.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: If those are the things that excite you and what you want to do.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, there are challenges sometimes in making those shifts, but there are plenty of people who have done it.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: I am not a unique unicorn out here.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: There are lots of people like me who've been able to navigate that.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: So push and again figure out kind of where you can get the best resources.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: And the last thing is remember to have fun.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like at the end of the day, if it stops being fun, then that's when the problems start arising in anything, whether it's your job, whether it's an entrepreneurship, you're starting your own business, any of this, because it is still a job.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you own your own business, whether you work for something, it's a job.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's going to be highs and lows, but you have to hope that there's more fun days than there are not so fun days.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I always said when the not so fun days outpace the fun days, that's when it's time to make a shift in my career or in what I'm doing because life's too short and days are too long to not have fun.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: You're so right.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope that anyone listening out there, if you are young, please take this advice to heart because yeah, this I couldn't agree more, Sherry.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: That was Awesome.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for offering those words because I think young professionals these days, there's a lot of guiding that needs to happen.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: I just keep noticing that they're a little lost.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: And but they are.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot, and there's a lot of opportunity for them.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: My niece is 18 and she is oh, she's the best kid ever.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: I love her so much.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, it's like the world's her oyster, right?
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like some friends of hers are interested in becoming content creators.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's a real job.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like that is a career for you.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: Some people want to go into business, some people want to become physicians, some people want to do this.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of things, and there's so many more opportunities today for careers than existed when I was 18 years old, but still it becomes confusing and someone has to help guide them and then shepherd them along the way.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so find those mentors, find those people like who will take you under their wing and think about it like closer to the one piece of advice I'd give people is sometimes I get emails from people who are just graduating college, which I respond to every email that comes to me.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: I have a philosophy of doing that because I believe very strongly in doing it.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: Even if it's just, hey, thank you.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not necessarily the right person.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like when people write to me and they're like fresh out of college, it is genuinely a little bit harder for me to guide them than it is if someone's a little bit more in the middle of their career or like a little bit later in their career trying to make a different type of ship because I'm just so far removed from what it is of applying to a job at 22 years old now than what it was when I was 22 years old.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to give people the wrong advice.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: I can tell them how we hire or how we look for people and what we're looking for.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I do advise those people to find someone who's closer to the role that they're trying to apply for, like who's either in that job right now or one level above that job versus, you know, if I'm talking to someone who's going to be the entry-level position, again, I'm happy to talk to them and give them whatever advice I can of how we look for people or how people on my team interview people.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I can't actually tell them a lot of what their day-to-day is going to be like and what the job is like anymore, because I'm not doing it at that level anymore.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I do encourage people that sometimes they think the best person to reach out to is the CEO or the chief marketing officer or something like that because they're so senior and they think, well, they're going to have the power, but they may not be involved in the hiring of the level that you're actually applying for and stuff.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: So reach out to both and say that.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: Reach out to the CMO or the CEO of I've also reached out to so-and-so at your company who I know is in more of a role like this, but I admire what you do and I'd love to learn from you too or talk to you more if you have time.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: And always offer to email the questions if the person doesn't have time.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because I ask that sometimes too.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I say I don't really have time to jump on the call.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: But if you have three questions that are really important to you, feel free to email them and I'll answer them by email because it allows me to do it at a little bit of a different hour.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: Again, that's very specific to me.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's different, but I feel like those No, but that's solid though.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's legit.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, I think anybody could relate to that.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you're busy, it's easier to answer email, you know, and sleep likewards and email.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I can do it on like a Saturday afternoon if I'm just watching Netflix and chilling at home and stuff.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, then I can just like, oh yeah, let me get back to that person quickly versus scheduling the calls.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because I do think most people inherently want to help others because, like I said, someone's helped everyone along the way.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: We all have gotten where we are because of the support of others.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it really, we do have to just believe strongly and like we all have to uplift each other and remember there is room for everyone, every person in the playing field of what we're doing, and there is a room for every brand in the playing field of what we're doing.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: So let's all look support and learn from each other.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God, I simply adore you.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I love you too.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: This is so fun.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, honestly, I'm just so grateful to you, Etka, because like I love that you reached out to info at Nezcare because you thought the brand was cool and didn't realize I was the founder and we'd already met you.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I wrote back to you being like, hey, I'm my brand.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and you were like, Wait, what?
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: I remember I saw Nez and I was like, oh my gosh, they look so cool.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then I when you wrote back, I was like, oh wow, of course.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, This is the best compliment that you didn't know because that's so genuine that I was this it's like that's the stuff that just like, you know, there was an inbound recently for someone too who like wrote out like a potential investor who wrote to me, wrote to InfoAt saying, like, hey, we love this brand, we'd love to talk to you.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: But it turned out the founder of the fund knows my business partner, but didn't know she was co-founder.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like anyway.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I love things like that because that's just like like people are genuinely love the brand.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, oh wait, there's a connection here as well.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's an amazing, it's an amazing brand though, Sherry.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, like I'm not just saying that.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: And like I've been kind of saying this in my episodes recently because I've become like, I guess you could say a little bit more like filtering, you know what I mean?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like what brands I really stand behind.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I like literally, you guys listening out there, like I love this hand.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I genuinely, even if I didn't know Sherry, like we had never met, you know what I mean?
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is a wonderful option.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's just something that once you experience it and you experience, like, okay, deodorant doesn't have to be this like grandmother's level deodorant, you know, it can be fun, it can be flirting, it can be like a thing in my routine, my beauty routine.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you're gonna become obsessed with it, like genuinely.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been genuinely obsessed.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I say.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: We're obsession-worthy deodorant.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's like our tagline, like obsession-worthy deodorant.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you never thought you would talk about your deodorant, but you will talk about Nets.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, one of my colleagues literally recommend your the scent, like for the date one.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: I literally recommend that.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, literally, my colleague, she was at a wedding and she heard some girls in the bathroom talking about deodorant and they can't find a natural deodorant or clean deodorant that works and like all this stuff.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so my colleague comes out at the stall.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: She'd never met these girls before.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: They're at this wedding, and she's like, Oh, let me tell you about this brand nez.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: And she tells them, and they're like, Wait, are you wearing it right now?
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, Yeah, and they're like, Can you can we sniff your armpit?
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: And like they literally sniffed her armpit.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, Oh, it's all together.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, I swear to God, it's a brand that I know you guys are you're gonna just blow up because honestly, it's just something your lips.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: I've got no, I've gotten so many compliments, you know, when I've worn it.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love it, like the feel of it as a consumer.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's there's just so many points that are hard-hitting here, you know what I mean, from like the consumer perspective.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: And just I just love it.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I really encourage everyone listening out there, if you're looking for a new option, whatever, just try it.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: Seriously, just try it.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna fall in love.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: And like we were talking about, the minis are genuinely like game-changing.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not even I literally carry it everywhere.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: My little mini, like whether my white coat or if I'm going anywhere, like you know, shopping, whatever.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: You can take it everywhere.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: So do it, you know.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: I really encourage everybody.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: But Sherry, this has been an honor, truly, to host you and to learn from you.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for the such an honor to be on this.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for having me.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: And for everyone listening, I'll be back next time.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 50:51
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