Latest / Still Unanswered / Still Unanswered- Rebecca Zahau: The Death at Spreckels Mansion

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Still Unanswered- Rebecca Zahau: The Death at Spreckels Mansion · Still Unanswered

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Teresa Michaels has spent more than three decades in real estate and pioneered the real estate niche now known as crime and stigmatized properties.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Homes connected to the tragedy and circumstances far outside the ordinary.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Her work has taken her beyond the properties themselves into the stories of the people and events connected to them.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: David Zarza is a Seattle-based psychic medium and intuitive life coach, as well as a published author.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: For decades, his work has been rooted in intuition, connection, and insight, helping individuals and families navigate questions, transitions, and circumstances in their lives.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Teresa and David first met more than a decade ago when David appeared on Teresa's television series, Twisted and Listed.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Their backgrounds couldn't be more different, but what began as an unexpected meeting became a lasting friendship.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Despite their very different perspectives, they share a genuine desire to help the people and families they work with.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Still unanswered grew from that friendship.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: For each case, David is given only the subject's name, date of birth, and photograph.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Teresa researches the case independently.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: When they come together, David has no knowledge of what Teresa has uncovered.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Together, they examine what connects, what doesn't, and what may still be waiting to be uncovered.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Still Unanswered explores real unsolved cases through documented research, discussion, and intuitive interpretation.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: David's impressions are personal perceptions and are not presented as fact or evidence.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing discussed should be interpreted as an accusation or determination of guilt.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: This program is presented for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Some stories end, some questions don't.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is Still Unanswered.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Still Unanswered.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Teresa Michaels, and I'm here with my co-host and friend, Intuitive Medium, David Zarza.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_04: Good day, everyone.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: As always, David knows virtually nothing about the cases that we're covering today.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Before his reading, the only information he's been given is a name, a date of birth, and a photograph.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: He's done his intuitive read, I've done the research, and neither of us know where these two things are going to meet.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: We don't expect you to believe everything you hear.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: We only ask that you listen with an open mind, consider the facts, and decide for yourself.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Today's case is Rebecca Zahau.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, David, why don't you tell us what you're connecting with?
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_04: Sounds good.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I've noticed every time we connect, every time we do one of these, it feels like we're on an airplane about to skydive and we have just been pushed off.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_04: Let's take a look.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_04: Let's take a look.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_04: There's a lot of pain here.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_04: The universe is showing me symbols that represent tragedy.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_04: Tragedy.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_04: Madness.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_04: Let's see.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_04: Hold on.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna try to find this person.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_04: I think I see her.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_04: She's sitting down.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_04: Looks like a bar.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_04: Like a hotel type bar.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_04: There's a drink in front of her, like in a short glass.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_04: She's wearing like a white dress.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_04: It's very very airy, silky looking.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_04: There's a flower in her hair.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_04: It looks like a colorful jasmine flower.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if that's relevant.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_04: But she's here, she's calm.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_04: She has her arms crossed in front of her.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_04: There's piano music around.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_04: I sit down.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_04: She notices me.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_04: She's nervous, I can tell.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_04: Like suspicious.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_04: Like the feeling I get from her is I don't know you.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_04: I tell her who I am.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_04: What I'm doing.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_04: She seems frustrated.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_04: She stands up and she walks away.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_04: Hold on a moment.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna watch her for a moment and then I might try to call her back.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_04: I'll tell you what I felt while she was here, sitting like next to me.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_04: I felt like embarrassment and shame.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if anybody else has tried to connect with her, like in spirit like this, like through a medium.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_04: I'm calling her back.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, she's coming back.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_04: She sits down.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_04: You can tell she's perturbed, like disturbed, bothered.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_04: But it's almost like she's holding back tears.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_04: And I notice it.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_04: She knows I notice it.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_04: She says.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_04: She says, this is all so wrong.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_04: This is all so messed up.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_04: This is messy.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_04: She says life was beautiful.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_04: I had a problem.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_04: We can use bad words, right?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, sorry.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_04: She said, she says I fucked things up.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_04: She says love scared me.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_04: She says being tied down scared me.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_04: I think what she's talking about, like what I feel from her, is she has problems with commitment.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_04: Possibly like marriage or like commitment, like committed relationships.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_04: She says I messed up big.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm telling her to tell me I can help her sort through it.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_04: She says I didn't mean to do this.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_04: Hold on a moment.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_04: She says I only meant to scare.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_04: I only meant to get sympathy.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_04: She says when I was here.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_04: Sorry, I'm going back.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_04: Asked her like sympathy for what?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_04: She says she was scared the man she was with.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_04: She was scared that the man she was with was going to leave her, was going to push her away.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_04: She said she thought about killing herself.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_04: And she says this, exactly this.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't mean to kill myself.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_04: She says it was an accident.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_04: I just wanted sympathy.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't want him to leave.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't want him to leave me.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_04: She says it was a mistake.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_04: She suffocated.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_04: She says she stopped her breathing.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_04: She says she thought it wouldn't hurt as bad.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_04: She says she used to swim a lot.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_04: She says she could hold her breath for a long time.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_04: She says, but this was too long.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't mean to cause this, she says again.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_04: This was an accident.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_04: This was a mistake.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_04: She says, I didn't kill myself.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_04: She says, she indicates family, so there are still loved ones here in this world.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_04: She says she wants to know, I didn't mean to kill myself.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_04: I just want to make sure this is true.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Teresa, by chance, do you know if her loved ones may have been told that she committed suicide?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, David, I can confirm that.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, okay.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_04: Then she is being.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_04: She's being very forceful about this.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_04: She didn't mean to.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: David, did she give any details, or could you ask her for some details surrounding that suicide?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_04: I can show her, I can have her show me.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_04: Hold on a moment.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_04: She says she hates this night.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_04: She says Wednesday.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_04: She says I hate Wednesdays.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_04: She says she was stressed.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_04: She loves the man she's with.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_04: And she feels the man she was with loved her.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_04: Loved her intensely.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_04: She says she wanted to be with him forever.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_04: He was kind.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_04: He was loving.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_04: That he had some baggage.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_04: But who doesn't, she says.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_04: She says I was afraid he was gonna leave me.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_04: He had a he had a tone that night.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_04: And it scared me.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_04: I just wanted to scare him back.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_04: She says I wanted to make him think I was fragile.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_04: I was mentally that I had the symbol she shows um can represent mental illness or mental fragility.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_04: Because she says she's a little scary, okay?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um, here's what I mean.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_04: It feels like she wasn't afraid to hurt herself in order in order to like generate sympathy from others.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_04: And it feels like this is what she did here.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_04: But I'm also feeling like family from family of the man she loves and the man who loves her.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_04: It's like she's feeling hate.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_04: She's feeling she's feeling like they don't like her, that they doubt her intentions.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_04: Because it's almost like a mismatched, um, uneven power balance within their relationship.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_04: It might be like a like a social hierarchy thing or like a money hierarchy thing.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_04: But it feels like family doesn't feel like she is equal to him, and so it feels like she gets a lot of heat or a lot of hate, and she hates us.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_04: So she's just trusting that her man loves her, but something he said to her this night, it's a night.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_04: She says, I wasn't gonna be able to sleep.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_04: I needed to I needed to do something.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_04: I need to show him that he needed to stay with me, to be with me.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_04: And it feels like she's in a bathtub, like the water is full, and she slips under the water.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_04: It's like she's holding her breath, she lets all the air out, out of her lungs, and then she pops back up out of the water.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_04: She says, I can't.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_04: It feels like she's been holding a story for a long time, and it feels like she wants to share.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_04: She says she got out of the shower, out of the tub.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_04: She was drawing off, and she hears sounds.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_04: She hears sounds like in the house that she's in.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_04: I think there's somebody else here.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_04: There is.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_04: She says he's here and he hates me.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_04: But this is not the man she loves.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_04: This is somebody else.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_04: She lays down on the bed.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_04: And her mind is racing.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_04: Her anxiety is crazy.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_04: Then it jumps.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_04: It's like it's almost like she experienced dissociation.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_04: Like she was out of her body.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_04: And then and then she's sitting.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_04: She's sitting on what feels like stone or concrete.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_04: She's looking out over the water.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_04: But she puts something in her mouth.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_04: Her hands are feels like her hands are handcuffed.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like they're like she can still use her hands, but their wrists are stuck together.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_04: She hears him again.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_04: She says he's looking for me.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_04: It feels like she hears him coming.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_04: It's like she feels him coming.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_04: Loud footsteps.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_04: And then she jumps.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_04: But she doesn't fall.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh, she's hanging.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_04: It's like she's holding her breath.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_04: But she's scared.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, this hurts.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_04: She wasn't expecting it to hurt like this.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_04: These handcuffs are like really tight.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh, she can't she can't pull herself up.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_04: She starts losing her vision.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_04: She starts losing her hearing.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_04: And then she blacks out.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_04: And then she's gone.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_04: She kept looking up.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_04: She thought he was gonna be there.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_04: But she died.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_04: Hold on a moment.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_04: There's something weird here.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_04: Just out of curiosity, uh, anything I shared, does it sound right?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, David.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I was I I didn't want to interrupt you in your process, but yes, you had mentioned that she said that she had died on a Wednesday, and that I have been able to confirm she did, in fact, die on a Wednesday.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: Got it.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: You had mentioned possibly a power difference in the relationship with her and her partner or boyfriend.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: There was a 22-year age difference.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: He was 54.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, at the time of her death, I believe she was 32.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: Got it.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you also mentioned, um, or you asked rather, was he wealthy?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, was there maybe a hierarchy and a difference in their relationship status?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: And he was, in fact, wealthy.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_04: Got it, got it.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because the townset she's in is big.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_04: Like the rooms here, they're spacious, they're large, and they're it's very feels very posh.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Before I get into my reveal, I do have a question for you.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Can you find out from Rebecca what tipped this off?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: Was there a situation or something in particular that made this happen on this evening or something that maybe would have happened prior to the events of this evening that she describes?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_04: Let me see.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_04: Let me see.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_04: Because some of it sounds a little like self-sabotage, a little bit as you're uh that's the one thing that I was feeling from her that felt scary to me.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um, she felt a little bit unhinged, okay?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like she wouldn't mind hurting herself to try to make a point or to try to make somebody feel something.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um, which to me is a little scary because it makes the person unpredictable, you know.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_04: But let me ask what you what you pointed to.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_04: Like was there something that precipitated this whole deal?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it it sounds like she mentioned, you know, you mentioned that she'd said that she was in love and she loved this man, she sort of saw forever with this man, and then all of a sudden, one night something happens.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is it something that is a is a manic episode it created inside of her?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Is it an is there an outside event that maybe tipped this off?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_04: Let me see.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_04: Hold on a moment.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, I asked her this question and she she starts crying.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_04: I'm asking her why.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_04: Let me see.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_04: She says she hurt him.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_04: She says she hurt her partner.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_04: Oh wow.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_04: She shows me feels like it's another day.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_04: There's a dog here.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_04: Feels like she was feels like she was in the kitchen.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_04: Feels like a television was on.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_04: But this place feels big.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_04: There's a child here.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_04: She calls him his boy.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_04: Her partner's boy.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_04: She says I loved him.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_04: She says I still do.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_04: She says he likes me.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_04: This boy likes her.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_04: Feels like she was taking care of him.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_04: Feels like partner was away.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: David, does she give a name for this boy?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_04: Let me see.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_04: I think there's an M.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_04: I keep feeling the the syllable.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_04: I keep hearing the syllable.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_04: Meh, like Manny.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_04: And she says, or Mace, or Mason.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_04: It's like M-A.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_04: And she says I'm gonna call him I'm gonna call him Mason.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_04: She says we were having fun.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_04: And then I stepped away.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_04: She says I got tied up.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_04: I was talking to someone.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_04: I think there's somebody else here.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_04: There's a woman.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_04: They get along well.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_04: And Mason is somewhere else.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_04: They're not in he's not in the same room anymore.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_04: And they're talking, they're gabbing.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_04: Feels like they're talking about family, about future.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_04: And then there's a noise, a loud noise.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_04: She calls Mason.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_04: Mason?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_04: She runs.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_04: He's like a little heap on the floor.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_04: She's scared.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_04: They're both scared.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_04: She's jumping up and down.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_04: She's frantic.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_04: She's panicking.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_04: This other woman calls for help.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_04: She says, I'll call for help.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_04: I'll get help.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_04: Feels like she's feels like she's touching him.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_04: She's touching Mason.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_04: This is Rebecca.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_04: This is not the woman.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_04: Rebecca's touching him.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_04: And there's blood coming out of his mouth, his face.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_04: She tries to lift one of his arms and it just flops down.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_04: She's scared.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_04: She's super scared.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_04: She feels responsible.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_04: She says she says I hurt him and I didn't mean to hurt him.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_04: I tell her this to me, this feels like an accident.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_04: Cause she was in a whole other room when this happened.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_04: She says this.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_04: She says, I broke my partner's heart.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_04: The child feels still alive, though.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_04: But he's not moving.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_04: She says this.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_04: This is the day I broke my partner's heart.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_04: She says, this is why he wanted to leave me.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_04: Because I hurt I hurt Mason.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_04: That's what she says.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, David, let me give you a little bit, let me back up for just a second and confirm a couple of things that you had mentioned.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: I can confirm there was a dog in the house.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there was a young boy in the house as well, as um her teenage sister was also in the house at the time.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: You had mentioned something about a bathroom, and it sounds like her sister was um in one bathroom, maybe taking a bath or a shower when this accident happened, and Rebecca was in another, another room at the time when they heard the noise.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: So a little bit of the backstory in Rebecca is she was 32 years old in July of 2011.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: She was staying at the Spreckles Mansion in Coronado, California, uh, with her boyfriend, pharmaceutical represent pharmaceutical executive, excuse me, Jonah Shacknai.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Two days before Rebecca died, Jonah's six-year-old son Max suffered catastrophic injuries after a fall inside the mansion while Rebecca and her teenage sister were there.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Max was rushed to the hospital in critical condition.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: The following day, Rebecca picked up Jonah's brother Adam, who had flown in because of Max's condition.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that night, Rebecca returned to the mansion after she had had dinner.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like her boyfriend had gone back to the hospital.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: She went back to the mansion along with her boyfriend's brother Adam, who was staying in the guest house.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_04: Got it.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_04: Can I tell you something?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yes.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_04: There was this gap that she showed me, like after her after her bath, like before she made this mistake, before she unintentionally hurt herself.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_04: There was this gap where she was dissociated.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_04: And it feels like it was a long while.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_04: It feels like it was hours.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_04: There might be something there if you want me to look there.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_04: But go ahead.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_04: What are you gonna share?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, no, no, you're you're you're right on track, David.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: If if you can connect with something, absolutely go ahead and do it.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_04: Let me see.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_04: Because she's moved from like feeling sad to like feeling mad.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_04: I'm asking her to tell me to show me.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_04: Show me what happened when you dissociated.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_04: Do you know what dissociation is?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_04: I just want to clarify.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I do, but why don't you explain it to our listeners?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_04: So at least the way I understand it, dissociation can happen very naturally when you're like overwhelmed or you can't your mind can't seem to grasp a situation or scenario or or emotions.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_04: And it's almost like it's almost like you leave your body.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_04: You might actually be able to function like a normal looking person, but when you dissociate, it's like sometimes difficult to form memories, um, which is why you know when people dissociate for long periods of time, and and some people like live in a dissociated way, and that's why like their days seem to blend and look very similar or feel very similar, like as if it's just like a you know, uh a blur.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_04: Like a week could be a blur, years could be a blur for somebody who dissociates, but in this situation, it's like it's like she's feeling guilty, it's like she's feeling sad, it's like she's feeling like the future that she had been planning will be taken away.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_04: She's feeling this animosity from family, and I have a feeling this this this brother of her man is the one who hates her.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: That would be Adam.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Jonah would be her her boyfriend and partner.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Adam was his brother who was staying in the guest house.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_04: Got it.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, yeah, it feels like Adam hates her or doesn't like her.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_04: Let me see.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_04: Let me see if she can show me.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_04: Go back to the bed where you dissociated.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_04: This is what happened.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_04: Because she feels like a zombie.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_04: It feels like she puts on a little robe or just something white.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_04: Because it feels kind of warm here.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_04: It feels like she goes downstairs.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_04: She goes to a garage.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_04: She grabs something, it feels like rope or ropes.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_04: She comes back up.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_04: He's waiting for her.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_04: In her bedroom.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: When you say he, you mean Adam, the the brother of her boyfriend?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because she feels she feels like she sees hate in his eyes.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_04: This is not her partner.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, this feels like Adam.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_04: Then it blacks out.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm sorry, David, just to to make sure I'm on the same space you are.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: She goes down to the garage, she gets some ropes, and she goes back upstairs to her bedroom, and Adam and Adam is there waiting for her in the bedroom.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's what it felt like.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_04: But then it like it blacks out.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_04: And then it jumps.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_04: It jumps to sitting on this concrete stone thing.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_04: It's cold, it's rough.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_04: And then feels like that's where she falls.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_04: I think I think she heard his footsteps.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's when she like jumped.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_04: Because I think she thought he was coming to get her or coming to see her.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_04: And she felt like scared, panicky, but also like this is my moment, or this is what I should do.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Did you mention she was trying to do this for attention?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: So you think maybe he's coming, she knows he's upstairs, he's coming into the room.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: She thinks if I jump, he'll see me, he'll he'll save me, basically.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's what it felt like.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_04: That's what it feels like.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's what it feels like she was hoping.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_04: Because she wanted to turn his opinion of her around.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_04: And I think she wanted to like appeal to maybe like his his heroicness or his saviorism.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know how a lot of men like to rescue the white knight syndrome.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't think I don't think he I don't think he appeared like when she wanted him to.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Can you ask her if she left a note or anything behind?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_04: Let me see.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_04: She says yes, she did leave something behind.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_04: She left something written.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_04: But she's not she's just answering the question.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_04: She's not showing me what it is.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_04: Was there something found?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that morning, Adam went into her bedroom and found Rebecca hanging nude from the second floor balcony.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Her hands and feet were bound, and a long-sleeve t-shirt was wrapped around her neck.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Part of it was in her mouth.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Inside of the bedroom, someone had painted the words, She saved him.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Can you save her?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_04: I think she I think she wrote that.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the medical examiner ruled Rebecca's death a suicide, and the sheriff's investigation said it found no evidence of a crime.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now, at the time she passed away, Max, who was her boyfriend's young son, six-year-old son, was still alive in the hospital.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: He did, however, die three days later, um, with his death being ruled as an accidental in nature.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_04: I think this was not a suicide.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_04: This was like a sympathy attempt.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_04: But her the child, the boy, I think that was definitely an accident that was not caused by her.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Now, David, one of the things that has come up around this case, um, because the police investigation believed it to be a suicide.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Her family did not, and there was a lot of public opinion on this because of the way that she was found.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, her hands and feet were both bound.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there was some questions around whether or not she could have done something that complicated to herself, um, and then to have put a t-shirt in her mouth and been naked and done all of these things, and then jumped off.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: There were some private investigations done.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um the uh autopsy documented, some hemorrhaging to the scalp.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: The medical examiner said that there was relatively minor bruises that could have occurred when Rebecca went over the balcony.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: But an independent pathologist, Dr.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Cyril Wecht, later disagreed with the suicide interpretation.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, what do you make of that t-shirt around her neck and the fact that part of it had been in her mouth?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's something you believe she did.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_04: It feels like she put it in her uh in her own mouth.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, by any chance, I kept seeing that her her hands were they were tied up.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_04: I thought it was handcuffs.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but they looked like they were in front of her.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_04: They were they were it didn't look like it didn't feel like they were behind her.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um, do you happen to know where they were?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: Let me get some confirmation, David.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: I believe that the that it was tied with a rope behind her, as were her feet.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was, it seems like it was felt like quite an elaborate binding, which is again what made a lot of people think, how could she have done that to herself?
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um there was some investigation around that, and then why would she have gone to all of those extra steps?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um I'll tell you what it feels like.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_04: So uh I am not a mental health professional, okay?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um but but I was feeling these tendencies in her um that felt kind of like uh borderline personality disorder.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um like she was her own worst enemy.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um but the awesome like the tragically beautiful thing about people who have borderline personality disorder is that they're often beautiful people, they're often very like charming, uh attractive, um curious, interesting people, kind even, but when the this issue arises, when they're like borderline personality issue arises, it's like they become their own worst enemy.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_04: And it feels like she had these these this tendency to like think uh maybe dark thoughts, yeah.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_04: To think dark thoughts, to think irrationally, to like create dramas in her own mind.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um because it felt like her intention here was to be found, to be saved, and to be like have people worry about her in the midst of everyone worrying about this child.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_04: That's what it felt like.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_04: And since she's 32.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's correct.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_04: I kept feeling so she was not married to this guy, right?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_04: That's correct.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, um I keep feeling like she was previously married, though.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_04: But there was this long gap between that marriage and and this relationship.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_04: Do you know if that's true?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm checking on that, David.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: Bear with me for just a second here.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_04: No worries.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_04: Because I keep feeling like she sabotaged things in that relationship too.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it almost felt like she the idea of marriage got tainted because of that previous relationship, and it feels like she wanted marriage in this relationship, but at the same time, she was afraid of it.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_04: It was complicated.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_04: This, this, she's a complicated person.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, David.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I can confirm Rebecca had been married before.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: Her divorce, it sounds like she was married from 2002 to 2011.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and her divorce was finalized in February of 2011, only about five months before her death.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, she was traumatized because of it.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_04: And I I think I think she I think she made historically throughout her life a series of bad decisions that ended up hurting her more than it hurt others, except for this situation where yeah, she left a whole bunch of other people hurt.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that you had mentioned that you picked up that Adam did not like her, or she she at least felt that she wasn't liked maybe by his side of the family?
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they were suspicious of her intentions.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, what I was feeling and what she was showing me about the way he was looking at her, and and just so you know, I trust what these spirits show me, right?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_04: As they show it to me, or like how they show it to me.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_04: But sometimes I wonder is it just like their take of how things were, or was this actually like objectively how things happened?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I wonder is it just their perspective versus the actual facts of the reality of what really happened?
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_04: Correct, correct.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, like what like one of the things that I kept feeling is I can she was showing me this memory, it felt like her memory, of like after she got the ropes from the garage, she ran into him in the bedroom, and it felt like in his face, it's like she could see anger, she could see maybe even rage, and then it felt like it created this emotional intensity in her again, where it made her like dissociate again and then like black out, and then all of a sudden, I feel her sitting on this stone thing and then tossing herself over.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Are you able to ask Rebecca if there was a confrontation that went on or any like verbal conversation with Adam?
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because he was the only one staying in the house.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Again, he had been in the guest house, came into town, you know, because you know his nephew was in the hospital.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like Rebecca very much feels like there is some animosity or some anger, and I'm sure she's racked with guilt that this sweet little boy has been involved in in just nothing more than an accident.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_04: Let me see, let me see, let me ask.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_04: She says yes.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_04: There was an interrogation first earlier that night, and then there was a confrontation.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: Was she alone with Adam when that happened, David?
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: Was it just the two of them?
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_04: Let me see.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_04: She says yes.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_04: Just us two.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_04: We were in the house, she says.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: And is this the night before?
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: Or is this right before she commits suicide?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_04: No, this feels like right before she right before she made this bad judgment calling out.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Do you pick up on anything regarding Adam and Rebecca?
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe not in a romantic way, but potentially in a sexual way.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_04: Let me see.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_04: It feels tricky.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_04: I'm tempted yes.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_04: That they had.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, David, it's a it's a very complicated case.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: And again, a little bit more information.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: Rebecca was technically considered her case was closed as a suicide.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: Her family ended up getting involved in a civil trial against Adam in 2018, and they put together some allegations in the civil case that Adam had sexually assaulted her, but investigators did not find medical evidence confirming a sexual assault.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like her passing?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't have the exact transcripts from that civil trial, but they believed, or it was brought up during that trial, that they believed she was assaulted with the handle of a steak knife.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: And at that confrontation, that that escalated into her death.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the jury ended up siding with the family.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_03: Got it.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: Again, civil, not criminal.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: And they had moved forward to a settlement, and it sounds like they ended up um settling this outside of court.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I believe there was an initial, roughly a$5.2 million amount that was awarded to the family, and it was later settled out of court, seven years later.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: So there had been, like I said, a lot of the conversations around this case, uh, especially since there was an independent um person that came in and did another autopsy, was the bindings to her hand and feet seemed to be very complicated, not something that people believe that you would bind your hands and legs.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: And David, the hands were bound behind her.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um it sounds like maybe she there's somehow there was a steak knife in the room.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know the specifics behind that.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um it sounds like she wrote that message on the wall in the room, then bound herself hands and legs, was naked at this time, put a t-shirt in her mouth where partly was wrapped around her neck and part of it in her mouth, and then jumped off of what I believe was the second story balcony of the mansion that they were living in.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_04: I I know I know that was definitely not ground level because she was she was hanging.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: What do you make of the message?
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: You said you believe she did she did write the message.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: The message again was she saved him.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: Can you save her?
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the the thing that stood out strange to me is Rebecca refers to it as she and her rather than I or me.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um does that bring about anything to you?
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, like what I was feeling in her mind is she was smart, she was even strategic, and it feels like she wanted to make she wanted the situation to make it feel like she was attacked.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I I'm not sure.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_04: Like when I asked her, like, did you want to make it seem like Adam attacked you, or did you want to make it seem like someone else attacked you?
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_04: It feels like she wanted to make it seem like someone else attacked her, not Adam.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: Which very much is how the scene felt.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think to people on the outside looking at this.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: That's what it's like.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: But you do not believe that Adam was in that room when she jumped off the balcony.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: You do not believe that he had anything to do with binding her or anything other than the fact that it sounds like they had had an argument.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to assume nothing more than an assumption that it was probably over his nephew Max.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe he was upset, feeling like, hey, you weren't watching him, or something happened, and you were you were technically in charge of his care, and now he's in the hospital.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of emotions were running high during during this time.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of emotions.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_04: And it felt like he just didn't trust her.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_04: And it felt like like he didn't want her for her brother.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think he genuinely discovered her that morning?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_04: Let me see.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_04: Like, yes.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_04: He genuinely did.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that that coincides with what the official reports were were that Adam had gone upstairs, discovered Rebecca that never.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Next morning, had cut her down and had called 911.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: And Adam has consistently denied throughout this that he had anything to do with causing her death.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_03: Got it.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: Now, seven years later, as we talked about, Rebecca's family took Adam to civil court, and their position was that Rebecca had not killed herself, that Adam had attacked her, and the hanging scene had been staged.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: In April of 2018, nine of twelve civil jurors found Adam liable for Rebecca's death and awarded the family roughly$5.2 million.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: But the Sheriff's Department then assembled a fresh review team whose members had not participated in the original investigation.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: After they reviewed the case and the theories raised at the trial, the team again said it found no evidence that Rebecca died at another person's hands and nothing inconsistent with the medical examiner's suicide ruling.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_04: This is just so insane.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: Has she connected with Max on the other side, David?
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_04: Let me see.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_04: She says yes.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: And can she ask Max what happened?
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because obviously she wasn't in the room when he fell.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_04: She says she says yes to that too.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_04: She says he told her.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_04: He told her that he that he tried to jump and grab something in the air.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_04: And then he thought he could swing back to where he jumped.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_04: But he didn't.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_04: Instead.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_04: Something broke.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_04: He fell.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_04: And this thing fell with him too.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: Do you get the feeling that was it was it an object that he was trying to get?
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: Or like Yeah, it feels like um or like a chandelier?
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_04: To me, uh, I'm not sure if it was a chandelier, but it does feel like a light fixture.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_04: Like a light fixture.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_04: How old did you say he was when he passed?
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_04: Max was six years old.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_04: Six years old?
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_04: So he would have been relatively light, but I think he could have easily misjudged how strong the light fixture was attached.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I just confirmed that there was, in fact, a chandelier and it was directly connected to Max's fall.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: Investigators believe Max went over the second floor stair railing and grabbed or struck the chandelier during the fall, pulling and breaking it from the ceiling.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: He was found on the floor with broken chandelier pieces nearby.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_04: Oh well.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's what she said he told her.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: David, is there anything more that she can say?
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: Can she elaborate on that message that again that she wrote on the wall?
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: It seems very cryptic and and not and not helpful.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or or not very well explained.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um again, kind of the and and I know you did mention she was in a disassociative state, so that may have played into the way that she phrased that.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um can I ask you a question?
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um, by chance, and sorry if there's like a super general question, but when you were a child, did you ever do something like break a window or do something not good?
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_04: And you try to like make up a story in your mind, like so clearly with all the right details, that you even started to believe that that's actually how it happened, not that you actually did it.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: I I I think most kids have probably done that.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, okay.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then you kind of tell the lie, you've gotten so good at it that you almost believe that's really what happened.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly, exactly.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_04: And and you could see like in your parents' eyes that they knew something was off here, like like, but they didn't, but they weren't sure because your story was actually really plausible, and so they went along with it.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_04: So that's how I feel she is, or she was.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like she could create a story in her head that was so clear, so uh believable that even she could believe it for a moment.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_04: So, like to answer a question, when I was asking her, like, tell me about this message, what was this for?
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_04: She said it was to make it seem like more dramatic, more dramatic, and like it was somebody else, not her.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_04: And I believe it was supposed to give like this to make it even more complicated, it was supposed to give this un and this sorry, this ambiguous hint that pointed to Adam.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it almost sounds in some ways, again, a lot of self-sabotage going on.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds like a very fragile, almost childlike in in her internal growth.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: She she doesn't seem like a woman who's been married before of you know 32 years.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: She seems like someone much younger emotionally, is kind of what I'm getting from you.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_04: And that that was part of her allure.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: The difficulty in the fact that she didn't get along, or maybe had at some moment thought, if I can be sexy, or I can, you know, um maybe appeal to Adam in a different way, maybe he'll like me.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it seems like she was sort of desperate to get some validation.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it sounds like maybe Adam rebuked that or was not interested and was one, not happy that she was with his brother, who was again 22 years older, probably assuming that she was in this for, you know, not the right reasons, money or status.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: And and it sounds like maybe in her anger and in in the conversation she'd had with Adam either the night before or that day, that she was angry with Adam, and maybe by making it look like because Adam was the only one home with her on that property that night and in that next morning, that this is Adam's fault, which maybe would have garnered her sympathy had she survived this event.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay, yeah.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: Does she acknowledge the amount of hurt that she has caused, not only obviously in in the loss of her life, but I mean, she if this if the story, the way that she tells it is accurate, I mean, she could have destroyed Adam's life for something that he didn't do, that the police don't believe he had anything, any involvement with.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: But she acknowledges that she's made some mistakes.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, like she has remorse.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um, she's not like apologizing to me, right?
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_04: And and I understand that I'm just a stranger, but she feels remorse.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_04: Like I can feel it coming off of her.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's another thing, too, David, that a lot of people had some questions about.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: She received a or accessed, I should say, a phone voicemail at about 12:50 the morning before she died.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: And her boyfriend Jonah later testified that he had left an emotional message about Max's grave prognosis because he was still in the hospital.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: Was there anything specific about that voicemail that she heard?
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: Apparently, that message has been deleted and was not able to be recovered.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: Did that also send her over the edge?
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: Or was that what created the fear that he was she assumed he was going to leave her?
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_04: She says that that was the voice message that made her know that her future with him was in peril, and that made her plot and plan the way she did, and it led to all of this, led to all this mess.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the tipping point.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: David, before we close, is there anything else you're getting for Rebecca?
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: Anything that we haven't talked about that you think matters, or anything that she specifically would like people to know?
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_04: The only thing I feel by any chance, does she have like two sisters?
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_04: Was she one of three sisters?
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know for certain that that she had one sister who was actually in the house when Max fell.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: I will see if I can confirm whether she had an uh an additional sister.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_04: Because what I keep feeling is that she just wants to tell them that she that she loves them.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_04: That she wanted to be able to take care of them in this life.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_04: And she didn't think this would get as carried away as it did.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_04: That it started with an accident and it led to this other accident, and she regrets how it all played out.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_04: But she sends them so much love.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_04: She says she watches them.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_04: She says she watches, she watches and loves those moments of happiness that they find themselves in, and that she's joining them in that happiness.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: David, I can confirm that she did have three sisters.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_03: She did have three sisters, got it.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and and again, the teenage sister was the one that was uh in the bathroom on another level of the home when Max fell.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_03: Got it.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, David, Rebecca was only 32 years old.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: She was a daughter, a sister, a partner, and a woman whose death has now been examined by investigators, medical examiners, independent experts, attorneys, and even a civil jury.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: And they have not all reached the same answer.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_01: Officially, Rebecca's death remains a suicide.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: Her family has spent years challenging that conclusion.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: And whatever you believe happened inside the Spreckles mansion that night, Rebecca deserves to be remembered as more than the extraordinary way in which she was found.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: If you have information about Rebecca Zahau's case, please contact the appropriate investigative authorities.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: You can also reach us at stillunansweredpodcast at gmail.com.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, take care of yourself.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_04: And take care of each other.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: Behind every unanswered case is a person, a family, a story that still matters.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining Teresa and David and for helping keep these stories alive.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you have an unsolved case you believe deserves another look, we'd like to hear from you.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: Follow Still Unanswered Podcast on social media for new cases, continuing investigations, and updates on the stories we've shared.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: This has been Still Unanswered.