Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Real estate millionaire goes to trial after twenty years and 3 dead.

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Real estate millionaire goes to trial after twenty years and 3 dead. · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: How does a murder that theoretically occurred decades ago rear
0:12
Speaker 1: its ugly head and a court of law now today
0:16
Speaker 1: and yet another seemingly unrelated murder. I'm talking about the
0:23
Speaker 1: murders of two beautiful women. One Kathy Durst, her body
0:29
Speaker 1: has never been found, second Susan Berman. The only link
0:34
Speaker 1: between these two women a multi millionaire Robert Durst, who
0:41
Speaker 1: has somehow managed to elude police, prosecutors, elected district attorneys
0:49
Speaker 1: for decades. The reality is, if it weren't for a
1:00
Speaker 1: Netflix series called Jeans, this may never have been brought
1:06
Speaker 1: to light. Why Why can somebody tell me why I
1:10
Speaker 1: have to rely on a streaming service to get justice
1:15
Speaker 1: in two murders that we know of? Again, thank you
1:20
Speaker 1: for being with us here at Fox Nation in series
1:23
Speaker 1: X one eleven. Take a listen to this you wave
1:27
Speaker 1: reading a hundred poundsfold figure. Not guilty we entered. I'm
1:37
Speaker 1: willing to wait, right, I do want to say here
1:42
Speaker 1: is now I am not guilty. I cannot killed who murder?
1:49
Speaker 1: Thank you? And do you in fact we have those
1:52
Speaker 1: writers at this time? Yes, okay, that's interesting. You were
1:57
Speaker 1: hearing Robert Durst? Are the preliminary hearing in an LA courtroom.
2:01
Speaker 1: But now I want you to listen to our cut twelve.
2:05
Speaker 1: This is from HBO's The Jinks. Oh okay, it's HBO,
2:09
Speaker 1: not Netflix. HBO's The Jinks, The Life and deaths of
2:14
Speaker 1: Robert Durst. Now remember you just heard him under oath
2:19
Speaker 1: in a court of law. Tell a judge I am
2:22
Speaker 1: not yelty. Now listen carefully because in this sound Durst,
2:26
Speaker 1: it's whispering. It's funny when you keep your microphone on
2:54
Speaker 1: when you go to the bathroom, they hear everything, including
2:59
Speaker 1: Robert Durst, who as I kill them all? Of course,
3:02
Speaker 1: now I've only mentioned so far two women that I
3:06
Speaker 1: believe Robert Durst murdered. Kathy Durst. I think he told
3:10
Speaker 1: his then best friend Susan Burman about it, and then
3:13
Speaker 1: she decides years later to go public with that information.
3:18
Speaker 1: She ends up dead. Oh I left out another dead person,
3:25
Speaker 1: mister Black. Morris Black lived across the hall from Durst
3:29
Speaker 1: in a flop house in Texas. His body was found
3:32
Speaker 1: minus a head, in Galveston Bay. Durst admits he did that.
3:37
Speaker 1: So now the talent's up to three. Are there more?
3:41
Speaker 1: Why has this guy never done hard jail? Time. Why
3:45
Speaker 1: do I have to rely on HBO to get justice? Well,
3:48
Speaker 1: that's a whole another can of arms. You were hearing
3:51
Speaker 1: that preliminary hearing in LA and HBO's the Jenks. Let
3:54
Speaker 1: me introduce you an all star panel to try and
3:56
Speaker 1: make sense of all of this. First of all, veteran
3:59
Speaker 1: defense attorney, Atlanta trial lawyer who practices all over the country,
4:03
Speaker 1: Randy Kessler, also Emery Law School professor and author of Divorce,
4:08
Speaker 1: Protect Yourself, Your Kids, in your Future. Man, if only
4:11
Speaker 1: Kathy Durst had saw you out before she ended up dead,
4:15
Speaker 1: her body disposed it. Don't start with me that there's
4:18
Speaker 1: not a body, so there's not a case, Kessler, Just
4:21
Speaker 1: save it. Just five minutes with me. Also, yeah, yeah, yeah,
4:25
Speaker 1: I know where you're going with me now. Psychologists joining
4:28
Speaker 1: us out of Manhattan. Karen Start Karen with a C
4:31
Speaker 1: at Karen Start dot com. And boy, do we need
4:34
Speaker 1: a shrink. Doctor Todd M. Barr, Deputy medical Examiner, Forensic
4:38
Speaker 1: pathologists joining us out of Cleveland, author of Thin Places,
4:44
Speaker 1: Essays from Jordan Kisner. You can find him at Todd Barr,
4:49
Speaker 1: m E. Jennifer Shinn joining US forensics scientists. Former director
4:53
Speaker 1: San Diego PD Crime Lab at Jen Schen Forensics dot com.
4:59
Speaker 1: But right now, how j Crime online dot com investigative
5:02
Speaker 1: reporter Levi Paige Levi, thank you for being with us.
5:06
Speaker 1: Right now, in a court of law, a murder trial
5:10
Speaker 1: is going forward in the death of long time bestie
5:15
Speaker 1: Robert Durst, Susan Berman. But this really dates way way back.
5:22
Speaker 1: It dates back to the death or the disappearance of
5:28
Speaker 1: his wife, Kathy Durst. Tell me about that, Levi page. So, Nancy,
5:34
Speaker 1: this is January nineteen eighty two. January thirty first, nineteen
5:39
Speaker 1: eighty two, Kathy Durst was at a party in Connecticut
5:43
Speaker 1: with friends and she got a telephone call and she
5:47
Speaker 1: was very upset. After the telephone call, people at the
5:51
Speaker 1: party said that Robert Durst, her husband, called her and
5:54
Speaker 1: was very angry. So she says, I gotta go home.
5:58
Speaker 1: And when she was leaving, on her way out, she
6:00
Speaker 1: told her friends, I'm afraid of what body may do. Okay,
6:04
Speaker 1: hold on right there, leave a page. Let me go
6:08
Speaker 1: to you. Karen Stark, New York psychologist. Unless somebody is
6:13
Speaker 1: going to the hospital, or they're dead or gushing blood
6:16
Speaker 1: at the house, or there's a fire, who and the
6:19
Speaker 1: Hey what guy calls his wife to get together with
6:22
Speaker 1: her girlfriends and says, you get your framework home right now,
6:26
Speaker 1: and she suddenly puts on her coat and leaves. I mean,
6:29
Speaker 1: somebody better be close to death before A guy pulls
6:33
Speaker 1: the wife out of a party and tells her to
6:35
Speaker 1: march herself home, and she's scared, and she doesn't. And
6:39
Speaker 1: she said to her friend that she was scared. Nancy.
6:42
Speaker 1: She said that if something happens to me, you know,
6:45
Speaker 1: something to the effect of, checkout Robert. And that's not
6:49
Speaker 1: unusual for this guy. She was afraid of him. He
6:52
Speaker 1: didn't have any boundaries. He was somebody who would do
6:55
Speaker 1: whatever he wanted. You know why, because of all that money.
6:59
Speaker 1: Karen's dark. He was so entitled. And there are a
7:02
Speaker 1: lot of allegations of this whole family closing ranks to
7:05
Speaker 1: cover up not only what Durst did, but to cover
7:08
Speaker 1: up their own cover up. Guys, take a listen to
7:12
Speaker 1: our cut to our friend Keith Morrison at CBS. He
7:15
Speaker 1: has gone hard inside. I really think so. Bob coming
7:19
Speaker 1: to suicide he was seven years old and it was
7:22
Speaker 1: a devastating experience for Bob. And the Stewart introduced Bob
7:26
Speaker 1: to a young woman that this whold, twisted tale was
7:28
Speaker 1: set in motion. I was seven fifty second Street on
7:32
Speaker 1: the second floor, and Kathy was living on the third floor,
7:35
Speaker 1: and Bob own the building he used to come and
7:38
Speaker 1: collect for. Kathy was Kathy McCormick, Stewart's young and beautiful
7:42
Speaker 1: upstairs neighbor. He was like Prince Charming and the princess.
7:47
Speaker 1: Kathy was the love of his life. Crime stories with
7:57
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. So it started off as seemingly a fairy tale,
8:03
Speaker 1: quickly took a dark turn. Listen, she became more independent.
8:09
Speaker 1: Wasn't the fairy tale anymore? No? In fact, Kathy's brother
8:13
Speaker 1: Jim told us it was one of like a horrible
8:15
Speaker 1: there's a dark side of Bob that you was fairly
8:18
Speaker 1: well camouflaged when they were first going out and get married,
8:22
Speaker 1: but escalated ultimately into psychological abuse, economic abuse, and physical abuse.
8:27
Speaker 1: Kathy warned all of us that if anything ever happened,
8:30
Speaker 1: looked Bob, Bob did it, don't let him get away
8:33
Speaker 1: with it. Then, in nineteen eighty two, Kathy Durst disappeared.
8:37
Speaker 1: How did he take it? You know? He asked if
8:40
Speaker 1: we had seen her, if we heard anything. If we
8:42
Speaker 1: knew anything, well they didn't, No one did. Bob was
8:45
Speaker 1: typically almost detached in his demeanor, you know, almost I
8:51
Speaker 1: don't know, not saying guy, I don't know anything. So
8:53
Speaker 1: leavi page. After that party, was Kathy Durst ever seen
8:58
Speaker 1: alive again by anyone other than Robert Durst? So Nancy
9:02
Speaker 1: after the party, Robert Durst claims that she came home
9:07
Speaker 1: to Westchester County, New York, where they had a home,
9:10
Speaker 1: and they got into an argument and he reported her
9:13
Speaker 1: missing five days after. Well, wait a minute, wait, something
9:16
Speaker 1: happened right there. They had an argument and what he
9:20
Speaker 1: says that he took her to the train station and
9:23
Speaker 1: she went to their apartment in Manhattan. Okay, Now, wasn't
9:27
Speaker 1: Kathy Durst in school at the time, in college, Yes,
9:31
Speaker 1: Albert Einstein School of Medicine in the Bronx. She was
9:35
Speaker 1: studying to become a pediatrician. Yeah. By all accounts, Kathy
9:41
Speaker 1: McCormick Durst was pretty brilliant. So she, according to Durst,
9:47
Speaker 1: goes to the apartment and he stays out of Westchester.
9:52
Speaker 1: But nobody ever sees her go into the building, do they. Well,
9:57
Speaker 1: there was a dorman, Rafael Pretto who says that he
10:03
Speaker 1: worked at that building for thirty seven years, he knew Kathy.
10:06
Speaker 1: He did not see her January thirty first, but there
10:10
Speaker 1: is an elevator operator named Eddie Lopez who told police
10:14
Speaker 1: at the time that he did see her alive January
10:18
Speaker 1: thirty first, nineteen eighty two. However, but the doorman, Rafael Pretto,
10:24
Speaker 1: says he's not reliable, that he was a drinker and
10:27
Speaker 1: was untrustworthy, and that he later told him I'm not
10:30
Speaker 1: so sure I saw Kathy that night. I don't think
10:33
Speaker 1: I told police the truth when cops go into the apartment,
10:37
Speaker 1: was there any evidence that Kathy had ever been there?
10:41
Speaker 1: Not that we know of Nancy. We know that On
10:45
Speaker 1: February first, nineteen eighty two, doctor Cooperman, who worked at
10:50
Speaker 1: the College Albert Einstein School of Medicine in the Bronx,
10:54
Speaker 1: said that he got a telephone call from someone claiming
10:57
Speaker 1: to be Kathy Durst, but it didn't really sound like her,
11:01
Speaker 1: and she said, I'm sick, I have diarrhea, I have
11:04
Speaker 1: a headache. I can't make it. And it was her
11:06
Speaker 1: first day for pediatric clerkship in her final year of
11:11
Speaker 1: medical school, and Robert Durst gave an interview to the
11:14
Speaker 1: Jinks producers and when he was talking to them, he
11:17
Speaker 1: flipped up and said Susan Berman was possibly posing as
11:23
Speaker 1: Kathy Durst because that call was made February first, And
11:27
Speaker 1: then he later said, well, he would never do that.
11:31
Speaker 1: So you know, to you, Randy Kessler, a veteran trial lawyer,
11:35
Speaker 1: there's a reason that you love the Fifth Amendment so much,
11:39
Speaker 1: where defendants have the want right to remain silent, and
11:43
Speaker 1: the constitution protects defendants from overbearing by the state, by investigators,
11:48
Speaker 1: by police, but it does not protect you from gabbing
11:51
Speaker 1: to HBO. The reason you love a hot mic mention
11:56
Speaker 1: because that's what happens. You will get overconfident. I think
12:00
Speaker 1: if I just keep it together when I'm in front
12:02
Speaker 1: of a judge or when I'm on camera and they
12:05
Speaker 1: forget and the truth comes out. It's interesting how the
12:07
Speaker 1: truth comes out and you're opening You said, why do
12:08
Speaker 1: you have to rely on TV channels and networks to
12:11
Speaker 1: get a conviction or get an accusation going? This is
12:14
Speaker 1: exactly why it's a benefit. You know, just New Davia's
12:17
Speaker 1: modern age, people say things when they think you're not
12:19
Speaker 1: being heard. You're right, no protection there. So he actually
12:22
Speaker 1: slips up leavi page and blurts out that his best
12:25
Speaker 1: friend Susan Berman likely posed as Kathy calling in sick
12:30
Speaker 1: to school. Yes, and then he took it back. He
12:33
Speaker 1: recanted that time. He took it back. Yeah, Okay, he
12:38
Speaker 1: took it back. Okay, Actually that's not an objection under
12:45
Speaker 1: the rules of evidence. You can't take it back once
12:48
Speaker 1: you already said it. So where does his family stand
12:52
Speaker 1: in all of this? And what are the theories about
12:55
Speaker 1: how he got rid of Kathy Durst's body? What do
13:00
Speaker 1: we think happened to her body? Levi, Her body's never
13:04
Speaker 1: been found, like you said, Nancy. But just to give
13:06
Speaker 1: a little backstory, Joseph Durst as his father, he ran
13:09
Speaker 1: a real estate company called the Durst Organization. It was
13:14
Speaker 1: a competitor of Donald Trump's organization in real estate in
13:17
Speaker 1: New York. And he left Robert Durst one hundred million
13:20
Speaker 1: dollars in the inheritance after he passed away. So it's
13:24
Speaker 1: been alleged that Robert Durst could have possibly did what
13:28
Speaker 1: he did to Robert Black, his neighbor in Texas, which
13:31
Speaker 1: is Morris Blast. Remember the body, and yes, Morris Black
13:35
Speaker 1: dismember he possibly dismembered the body of Kathy Durst as well. Guys,
13:41
Speaker 1: would you cover up for your own family member if
13:44
Speaker 1: you knew they had committed murder? Take a listen to
13:47
Speaker 1: Robert Abram's lawyer for Kathy Durst's family. So let me
13:53
Speaker 1: ask you this, Yester, Robert murder Cassie, along with their
14:00
Speaker 1: father and sister. Douglas and Tom lay it up closed
14:05
Speaker 1: drinkings and I'll throw the cover of Cathy's murder. So
14:09
Speaker 1: you may wonder why, all of a sudden, after decades
14:13
Speaker 1: forty is the Douglas decide to share this information with
14:16
Speaker 1: Los Angeles prosecutors. The answer is simple. However, out of
14:20
Speaker 1: respect to the ongoing investigation of the Wizard's district attorney,
14:24
Speaker 1: I will not discuss Douglas's motivation at this time. Husband
14:28
Speaker 1: to say, follow the money, money, money, money to doctor
14:35
Speaker 1: Todd and Barr, deputy medical examiner joining us out of Cleveland.
14:39
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us, Doctor Barr. You've seen
14:42
Speaker 1: a lot of dead bodies, you know. Is there any
14:45
Speaker 1: way to estimate how many murderers happen because of money?
14:49
Speaker 1: You got money, You've got sex, You've got revenge. You've
14:54
Speaker 1: got power, but money seems to be the love of money,
14:59
Speaker 1: the root of all evils. A lot of dead bodies
15:03
Speaker 1: because of money. Oh, absolutely, Inheritance, divorce affairs, you know,
15:11
Speaker 1: you name it. You know what's interesting to Jennifer Shin
15:16
Speaker 1: forensics scientists, former director San Diego PD Crime Lab. You
15:21
Speaker 1: can find her a jenshen Forensics dot com. Jim, I
15:25
Speaker 1: really do not believe a satisfactory search was done of
15:30
Speaker 1: Robert durst home at the time. Kathy Durst, his young
15:34
Speaker 1: wife nine years younger than him, goes missing. She goes
15:37
Speaker 1: home from that party. He claims he took her to
15:40
Speaker 1: the bus to the train station for about an hour
15:43
Speaker 1: ride into the city. She had planned to go to school,
15:47
Speaker 1: and I don't think she ever left that home as
15:49
Speaker 1: a matter of fact. Prosecutors say that they can demonstrate
15:54
Speaker 1: Kathy Durst never left that suburban home, that they also
16:00
Speaker 1: have video evidence of Robert Durst stating quote, I remember
16:05
Speaker 1: dragging her by her hair, grabbing her arm, saying the
16:09
Speaker 1: hair pulling wasn't even the worst. So he admits to
16:15
Speaker 1: beating her and abusing her. And now she goes missing.
16:19
Speaker 1: What should have happened at his home? Yeah, that's a
16:23
Speaker 1: great question. And you know, if you don't do a
16:25
Speaker 1: very thorough search of the alleged crime scene at the time,
16:29
Speaker 1: you're going to miss vital evidence that can help you
16:31
Speaker 1: sell the case and present the case at a later time. So,
16:34
Speaker 1: you know, I would just be very surprised if there
16:37
Speaker 1: was a pretty violent end to poor Kathy. So there
16:41
Speaker 1: should have been evidence at the house. And you know,
16:44
Speaker 1: and one of the things you said about the video evidence,
16:47
Speaker 1: you know, in today's world, it would have been very
16:49
Speaker 1: easy to show that where his car had gone, you know,
16:53
Speaker 1: if he had left, had she gone with him, had
16:55
Speaker 1: she gone towards the train station, traffic cameras, all that stuff.
16:58
Speaker 1: There would have been a lot more evidence today's world.
17:01
Speaker 1: But yeah, to your point, they actually should have done
17:03
Speaker 1: a very thorough job at the alleged crime scene in
17:06
Speaker 1: order to find the evidence they needed. Never happened. He
17:09
Speaker 1: was never prosecuted and left to walk free, hence the
17:13
Speaker 1: death of his neighbor Morris Black in Texas and the
17:18
Speaker 1: death of his so called best friend, Susan Burman. Crime
17:31
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. Now I'm slowly inching you forward
17:37
Speaker 1: to the trial that's going on right now. Prosecutors alleged
17:40
Speaker 1: just days after his wife Kathy Durst murder, Robert Durst
17:46
Speaker 1: unlisted his then best friend to help cover it up,
17:51
Speaker 1: to act as his media spokes for our son person
17:55
Speaker 1: cover up the killing, and at one point even posing
18:00
Speaker 1: as his wife Kathy Durst in a phone call to
18:04
Speaker 1: the medical school to explain why she wasn't there. Remember
18:10
Speaker 1: that name, Susan Berman, why you take to listen to
18:14
Speaker 1: our friend at forty eight hours Aaron Moriarney. This individual
18:19
Speaker 1: was listed as a secret witness. In fact, he came
18:22
Speaker 1: to a back door in the courtroom and he was
18:25
Speaker 1: accompanied by protection guards because he's afraid that because Durst
18:31
Speaker 1: still has one hundred million dollars, that he could be
18:34
Speaker 1: killed if he comes. This is a long time friend
18:37
Speaker 1: of Robert Durst. He worked and his wife still works
18:41
Speaker 1: for the Durst Realty Company here in New York Real
18:45
Speaker 1: estate company in New York. And he says there'll be
18:48
Speaker 1: a lot of questions raised about this, but he says
18:50
Speaker 1: that Susan Burman number one told him that Durst killed
18:54
Speaker 1: his first wife. Kathy said that. And he even says
18:57
Speaker 1: at a dinner Durst said to him in reference to
19:01
Speaker 1: Susan Berman, the victim in this case, that it was
19:04
Speaker 1: either her or me, insinuating that he may have killed
19:08
Speaker 1: did kill Susan Berman. Again to you, Randy Castler, veteran
19:13
Speaker 1: trial lawyer, the constitution can protect you when the police
19:17
Speaker 1: are involved, but not when you gab incessantly at dinner parties,
19:24
Speaker 1: when you're mic jup speaking to HBO. I mean, these
19:27
Speaker 1: statements alone, in my mind are damning, Randy, I think
19:32
Speaker 1: they are damning. The question is are they damning beyond
19:35
Speaker 1: a reason hold doubt? And that is the problem. You're
19:38
Speaker 1: absolutely right, no protection, no Fifth Amendment. You can't say
19:41
Speaker 1: I didn't know this was going to be used against me.
19:43
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter he said it. It's rest, just diet,
19:45
Speaker 1: it's whatever exception you want. It's a mission against interest.
19:49
Speaker 1: There are all sorts of ways that it gets into evidence.
19:51
Speaker 1: The question, of course, still, was he saying this for effect?
19:54
Speaker 1: He liked the attention, He said, Oh my goodness, did
19:57
Speaker 1: you really just say that? Got to figure out why
20:01
Speaker 1: he said he killed his wife? Okay, I'll leave that
20:04
Speaker 1: to a shrink. But what we're hearing is evidence as
20:08
Speaker 1: to why he killed Susan Burman. A long story short
20:13
Speaker 1: nineteen years after Kathy Durst murder, prosecutors reopened the case
20:19
Speaker 1: and just as they are about to interview this longtime friend,
20:24
Speaker 1: Susan Burman, Bam, she ends up dead. Okay, straight out
20:31
Speaker 1: to you, Levi page How does Burman die? So? Susan
20:36
Speaker 1: Burman was Robert Durst friend. They met in college, UCLA,
20:42
Speaker 1: and she was fifty five when she was shot in
20:44
Speaker 1: the back of the head Christmas Eve at her home
20:47
Speaker 1: in Benedette, Kenyon. No robbery, no sex attack? Wow, what
20:55
Speaker 1: could have been? No signs of struggle. You're right about
21:00
Speaker 1: that again. Take a listen, man. She was shot in
21:04
Speaker 1: the back of the head, which means that she could
21:06
Speaker 1: have opened the door to someone she knew and turned around,
21:09
Speaker 1: which would indicate that she trusted this person enough to
21:12
Speaker 1: turn around. That's a very good point. Leave a very
21:16
Speaker 1: good point. Take a listen to Gary Greenberg, co author
21:21
Speaker 1: of Sex and the Serial Killer. Well, actually, when they
21:24
Speaker 1: first met, they literally this guy still literally bumped into
21:28
Speaker 1: Durst in Manhattan and spilled a soda on him. Was
21:33
Speaker 1: with Susan Burman at the time, and they got into
21:36
Speaker 1: an altercation, and they nearly got into a pretty serious
21:39
Speaker 1: fight and Susan Burman helped break up the fight with
21:43
Speaker 1: another friend of Steals, and at that point Susan said
21:47
Speaker 1: to him, still, uh he was, you know, explained who
21:51
Speaker 1: Robert was. He's a very rich guy and his wife
21:53
Speaker 1: was recently murdered, and still and looked at her and
21:56
Speaker 1: glared at her, because at that point Kathy Durst was
21:59
Speaker 1: just a missing person. So right there, from that initial blunder,
22:04
Speaker 1: she corrected herself and very quickly and said, oh, I
22:07
Speaker 1: mean that she's missing, but we feared that she's dead.
22:10
Speaker 1: But she always apparently feared Durst, and eventually I think
22:17
Speaker 1: that fear was proven true. Two or now psychologists joining
22:22
Speaker 1: us out of Manhattan, Karen Stark. Karen Stark, of course,
22:25
Speaker 1: I'm just as JD. You're the strain. But isn't that
22:29
Speaker 1: what they call a Freudian slip? But she says, oh, yes,
22:33
Speaker 1: first wife was murdered, and then he looks at her.
22:36
Speaker 1: She goes, I mean missing, she's missing, not murdered, he said, murdered.
22:41
Speaker 1: I think it's more than a Cordians with Nancy, because
22:44
Speaker 1: she's been keeping this to herself for such a long
22:47
Speaker 1: time that there must have been a part of her
22:50
Speaker 1: that wanted to review what it has happened, but I
22:53
Speaker 1: also wanted to talk about the fact that she was
22:56
Speaker 1: shot in the back of the head. And if you
23:00
Speaker 1: look at Mars Black, he was also shot. And it
23:04
Speaker 1: makes me when I think about what he did with
23:07
Speaker 1: Mars Black, the fact that he cut up his body
23:10
Speaker 1: and he was able to get away with it, And
23:13
Speaker 1: to me, that's his m That's how he kills. He
23:16
Speaker 1: shoots somebody and he likes to cut up the body.
23:19
Speaker 1: And I think it could really assume that that's exactly
23:23
Speaker 1: what happened to his wife. He does have an m.
23:27
Speaker 1: He does have an m O Karen Start, You're absolutely correct.
23:32
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if the prosecutor will use that at trial.
23:36
Speaker 1: Speaking of the trial, that's what's going down right now,
23:39
Speaker 1: Robert Durst finally going to trial. How did he escape
23:43
Speaker 1: justice in Westchester? And how is he gone on the
23:48
Speaker 1: lamp for so long? Susan Burman was murdered years ago.
23:54
Speaker 1: I understand LEVI page Climoline dot Com that a letter
23:59
Speaker 1: at sent regarding Susan Burman's murder. We'll say a center stage,
24:06
Speaker 1: what is the note? After Susan Burman's murder, the Beverly
24:12
Speaker 1: Hills Police Department got a letter that was addressed to
24:15
Speaker 1: them and it contained Susan Berman's address and it said
24:21
Speaker 1: the word cold dabb Now what's important about this letter?
24:26
Speaker 1: Police then went to the home and found the body.
24:28
Speaker 1: But what's important about it is that Robert Durst had
24:32
Speaker 1: misspelled Beverly Hills in that letter. He spelled it b
24:36
Speaker 1: E V E R L E. Why putting an extra
24:41
Speaker 1: e in there? And he has done that in the past.
24:46
Speaker 1: They have gotten writing samples of his in the past,
24:49
Speaker 1: and he has misspelled it that exact same way in
24:53
Speaker 1: the past. And he's now admitted after denying it for
25:00
Speaker 1: many years, he's now admitted that he wrote that letter.
25:04
Speaker 1: And the note actually says basically goes Susan Burman's house.
25:09
Speaker 1: There's a cadaver there, Yes, And he is now claiming
25:14
Speaker 1: that he went to her home and discovered the dead
25:17
Speaker 1: body and aniced and ran away. Why has this guy
25:21
Speaker 1: been walking free all these years? Does nobody in either
25:26
Speaker 1: Westchester or LA have the back boon to prosecute him?
25:39
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Guys, we are talking about
25:44
Speaker 1: a case it's been a long time coming. Once again,
25:49
Speaker 1: Wealth Vice privilege. Robert Durst has killed three people that
25:57
Speaker 1: I know of? Are there others? We may never know that?
26:03
Speaker 1: But why why? Now? Take a listen to Maurice Dubois
26:09
Speaker 1: at CBS. After a long break through to the pandemic,
26:13
Speaker 1: the Robert Durst murder trial has restarted in California. Prosecutors
26:17
Speaker 1: say the now seventy eight year old Durst shandon killed
26:21
Speaker 1: his best friend Susan Burman back in two thousand to
26:23
Speaker 1: prevent her from talking about the nineteen eighty two disappearance
26:27
Speaker 1: of Durst's wife, Cathy. She vanished from their northern Westchester
26:31
Speaker 1: home and is presumed dead today. A Laurie, representing her siblings,
26:35
Speaker 1: said there's a wide ranging cover up of what happened
26:38
Speaker 1: to Kathy Durst to make it appear that Cassie returned
26:42
Speaker 1: to New York City and then voluntarily abandoned him, her family,
26:48
Speaker 1: her friends, a medical school, education, and everything in this
26:52
Speaker 1: world that she loved. Durst has said he did not
26:55
Speaker 1: kill a Burman. The trial is expected to last for
26:58
Speaker 1: at least four months. I want to go to doctor
27:02
Speaker 1: Todd m a Bar deputy medical examiner, pathologist joining us
27:06
Speaker 1: out of Cleveland and author doctor Barr, thank you for
27:09
Speaker 1: being with us. What do you make of the murder
27:14
Speaker 1: of Susan Burman the gunshot wound, single gunshot wound to
27:19
Speaker 1: the back of the head. Well, thank you, Nancy. This
27:22
Speaker 1: is actually a very disturbing case in my opinion, whereby
27:28
Speaker 1: I know that Susan Burman was brought up in a
27:30
Speaker 1: mob family and was very paranoid about her safety and
27:35
Speaker 1: what went to a great length to protect herself from intruders,
27:40
Speaker 1: and she had lots of lock clunter doors, so to
27:46
Speaker 1: have somebody walk into her home, she clearly knew who
27:50
Speaker 1: this person was. And as she's walking into her home
27:54
Speaker 1: and she shot point blank in the back of the head.
27:56
Speaker 1: That's an execution style murder. And this is clearly something
28:01
Speaker 1: to silence the person that you don't want them to speak,
28:05
Speaker 1: and it's just it's quite disturbing. And then the fact
28:08
Speaker 1: that this note appears shows that he had some affection
28:14
Speaker 1: for this person. If it was in fact Robert Durst
28:17
Speaker 1: who wrote that note, and with the green ink and all,
28:22
Speaker 1: it seems very likely and it sounds like you may
28:24
Speaker 1: have even confessed to writing that note wanting to have
28:28
Speaker 1: her body disposed her properly. And not sit there riting
28:32
Speaker 1: in a home because he cared about him. We understand
28:37
Speaker 1: that she was harder with a nine a nine millimeter.
28:41
Speaker 1: How would that be known, doctor, either from the shell
28:48
Speaker 1: casing or from a bullet recovered from inside of her head? Now,
28:53
Speaker 1: isn't it true? Jennifer Shamfonsick signed is based on what
28:57
Speaker 1: doctor Barr has just said. We are assuming that the
29:01
Speaker 1: bullet has been retrieved. That a bullet can be matched
29:05
Speaker 1: to a murder weapon, just like a fingerprint. Yes, no,
29:11
Speaker 1: yes it can. That's a great point. How well, it's
29:17
Speaker 1: kind of the same concept. You take very specific photographs
29:21
Speaker 1: of the markings, very tiny markings on the cartridge case,
29:25
Speaker 1: and then you can put those If you photograph every
29:27
Speaker 1: single cartridge case an exact same way, then you put
29:30
Speaker 1: it in a database, and then you run those photos
29:32
Speaker 1: against the photos of all the other tuning scenes that
29:35
Speaker 1: you have. And if you have the same kind of
29:37
Speaker 1: markings on two separate cartridges from two different scenes, then
29:42
Speaker 1: you can say that those two came from the same weapon.
29:44
Speaker 1: It's a great way to connect shooting cases. We also
29:48
Speaker 1: know to you, Randy Caster, that the prosecutor says he
29:52
Speaker 1: will prove Berman was quote unafraid of her killer, and
29:58
Speaker 1: that she had turned her back to the killer at
30:02
Speaker 1: the time she was murdered. How will they prove that,
30:07
Speaker 1: you know that those stuff that they can figure out
30:09
Speaker 1: that there's no way an a million and that I
30:11
Speaker 1: can figure out those folks like well what I can't
30:14
Speaker 1: hear you, they're folks like Joe Scott Morgan that will
30:18
Speaker 1: be able to analyze that. We'll look at it and
30:20
Speaker 1: say that the angle of the bullet, the fact the bullet,
30:22
Speaker 1: you know, why would she be not facing him? What
30:26
Speaker 1: happened three minutes before the shooting. They may not be
30:28
Speaker 1: able to figure out, but exactly then and there. It's
30:30
Speaker 1: amazing with forensics can do it. It is hard, but
30:33
Speaker 1: certainly her back was to him, and then we would
30:35
Speaker 1: prove that at a minimum. You know, I'm wondering if
30:38
Speaker 1: it wasn't the fact leavi page as you had intimated earlier,
30:43
Speaker 1: that where her body was found, it would suggest she
30:46
Speaker 1: had just closed the door and was, for instance, walking
30:50
Speaker 1: into her kitchen or walking into her dan area, and
30:54
Speaker 1: that's where her body was found, as if she had
30:56
Speaker 1: just let someone in. Yes, that's correct, Nancy, Her body
31:01
Speaker 1: was found not that far from the door, and that
31:06
Speaker 1: would indicate that she had let someone in that she
31:09
Speaker 1: knew and that she trusted, and Robert Durst was one
31:12
Speaker 1: of the few people that she was very close with.
31:17
Speaker 1: And isn't it true it happened on Christmas Eve? Christmas
31:21
Speaker 1: Eve two thousand and I would think Karen Stark psychologists
31:28
Speaker 1: joining us out of Manhattan, that if she went to
31:33
Speaker 1: the door and she sees Robert Durst is there, it's
31:37
Speaker 1: Christmas Eve, you would expect, oh, it's a visit from
31:41
Speaker 1: her friend and let him in. Well, I'm not just
31:44
Speaker 1: let him in that feel completely relaxed about letting him
31:48
Speaker 1: in so that she could turn her back to true.
31:51
Speaker 1: But I also want to say, Nancy, that the fact
31:54
Speaker 1: that she shot her friend behind, that that she shot
31:59
Speaker 1: from behind her to that whoever that person was, they
32:03
Speaker 1: didn't want to look at her. They sprinted. So the
32:07
Speaker 1: neighbor was shot in the space in the front. But
32:11
Speaker 1: supposedly he had affection for Susan. She was his best
32:14
Speaker 1: friend for many years, so it was a lot easier
32:18
Speaker 1: for him in this case to shoot from behind and
32:21
Speaker 1: not look at her. Why has it taken so long
32:25
Speaker 1: to get Durst in the court of law taken. Listen
32:28
Speaker 1: to our friends at CBSLA. Prosecutors say Durst changed his
32:33
Speaker 1: story before trial about a note that led police to
32:37
Speaker 1: Burman's body, which was found in her Benedict to Kenyon home,
32:41
Speaker 1: but they say the motivation has always been to cover
32:45
Speaker 1: up his wife's murder. He didn't kill her because he
32:48
Speaker 1: disliked her. He killed her out of survival. Yesterday, the
32:55
Speaker 1: judge said that Robert Durst was unwilling to appear in
32:59
Speaker 1: court day. The defendant was told that this trial will
33:03
Speaker 1: move forward with or without him unless there is a
33:06
Speaker 1: medical condition that prevents him from being transported from county jail. Oh,
33:12
Speaker 1: dear Lord in heaven. Is he claiming he's too ill
33:16
Speaker 1: to come to court? Is that really happening? Fine, he
33:20
Speaker 1: can be tried in absentia. You ever done that, Randy Casser?
33:24
Speaker 1: I have I got a conviction to you? By the way, Yeah,
33:28
Speaker 1: I've had people, and we've had when my mind doesn't
33:31
Speaker 1: show up or the other side doesn't show up, you know,
33:33
Speaker 1: the evidence is there. It doesn't always need to have
33:36
Speaker 1: the person here, but shurely not to be there of course. Well,
33:40
Speaker 1: under the law, typically at the time the jury is
33:45
Speaker 1: impaneled is when you have to have the defendant there.
33:49
Speaker 1: So if a jury was impaneled, you know, sworn in,
33:53
Speaker 1: and then the defendant takes off, which is what happened
33:56
Speaker 1: in my case. It was a dope lord. He was
34:00
Speaker 1: there for the journey and paneling. I guess my wishes.
34:03
Speaker 1: Of course, he was out on bond and never came back,
34:06
Speaker 1: so we just went right I had and tried him.
34:09
Speaker 1: I had a field day. I go stand behind his
34:12
Speaker 1: empty chair and talk about it was wonderful here Durst
34:18
Speaker 1: maybe refusing to come to court. He's trying to stick out.
34:22
Speaker 1: That's only going to hurt him, wouldn't you agree, Randy Kessler, Well,
34:27
Speaker 1: I've been a friend of years. In month recently got
34:29
Speaker 1: an acquittal for the person who the middle of the
34:32
Speaker 1: trial left because they were worried about getting connected. You
34:35
Speaker 1: never know with the jury, but it absolutely is better
34:38
Speaker 1: for the prosecution to be able to say, you know,
34:40
Speaker 1: wink wink, if he was really innocent, he'd be here
34:43
Speaker 1: protesting his innocence. He's on the run, just like he's
34:46
Speaker 1: been on the run for the law for the last
34:47
Speaker 1: ten years. There's a lot you can do without saying it.
34:50
Speaker 1: I simply looking at the chair, like you said, standing
34:53
Speaker 1: behind the chair, putting your hand on the chair. They
34:55
Speaker 1: know what's going on. Innocent people don't run away from justice.
35:00
Speaker 1: You know. If only I could use your words against
35:02
Speaker 1: you when you're trying your next criminal case, but sad way,
35:05
Speaker 1: I can't. The trial is ongoing, and we wait for
35:09
Speaker 1: justice finally to unfold Nancy Gray's crime story, signing off
35:16
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,