Latest / Military Broadcast Radio | MBR Talk / Oscar Mike Radio- 460 – Dr. Arielle Jordan

Transcript

Oscar Mike Radio- 460 – Dr. Arielle Jordan · Military Broadcast Radio | MBR Talk

0:53
Come here and we're going to conquer and we're going to take
0:56
some. Is that understood, Sir?
0:58
That's what we're going to do, sweetheart.
1:00
We are going to go and get some. All right, people, on the ready
1:04
line. The September issue of EP
1:14
Magazine focuses on the elderly. Read the current issue and past
1:19
archived issues for free at www.epmagazine.com.
1:29
Monotony. It comes in all shapes and
1:32
sizes. Dull, tedious.
1:35
Just plain boring. But what is this?
1:39
A contender perhaps? Something UN boring by the looks
1:43
of it. Jabs right at dull and uppercut
1:46
the tedium. Something that keeps you on your
1:48
toes, keeps your head on a swivel.
1:51
A knockout punch to your old boring workouts.
1:57
Welcome to fight Camp. OM Radio is a proud podcast
2:10
partner of Wreaths Across America Radio, heard every
2:13
Thursday at 11 AM and Sunday at 8:00 AM Eastern.
2:17
They're also big supporters of the nonprofit I Got Your 62
2:21
Lives at Once. And with every wreath you
2:24
sponsor through OM Radio, $5 goes back to this great
2:28
organization dedicated to making a difference in the lives of
2:33
veterans, law enforcement, firefighters and 1st responders
2:36
battling PTS. It's the Two Lives at Once pairs
2:40
these brave men and women together with dogs rescued from
2:43
kill shelters. In this way, 2 lives are saved
2:47
at the same time by saving each other.
2:49
Donate now. Go to wreathsacrossamerica.org
2:54
slash OM radio to help. That's wreathsacrossamerica.org
3:01
slash OM radio. Marines are made for this, made
3:43
for the calling only warriors can answer, made from an
3:48
unshakable belief in our nation and the strength that comes from
3:53
the determination to win together.
3:57
But you'll have to earn your place among us because you don't
4:02
join the Marines. You become one.
4:15
Hello and welcome again to OM Radio.
4:17
My name is Travis, Marine Corps veteran and your host OM Radio
4:21
is Co produced with Sense to Win Productions.
4:24
What's your podcast doing? I want to thank my sponsor Joyce
4:27
Asac from ASAC Real Estate and my supporters Caisson Shaving
4:30
Company, Exceptional Pair Magazine and Fight Camp.
4:35
This is kind of a ironic show. We're recording this on National
4:40
PTS Awareness day. This is June 27th, 2025.
4:46
And so it wasn't planned out this way, but it worked out this
4:50
way. And it's kind of relevant
4:50
because my next guest comes through me by way of tip of the
4:54
Spear and, and those amazing veterans there.
4:57
Doctor Ariel Jordan served in the Army.
5:00
And now she does, you know, all kinds of stuff that we'll get
5:03
into. And I want to welcome you,
5:05
doctor, to OM Radio. Thank you so much.
5:08
Thank you for having me. It is a pleasure to be here and
5:11
meet with you today. I like to start off with the
5:14
military side of of who you are. You serve our country and did
5:18
that before you get into all the good stuff you did after
5:21
service, But and it's all good. So tell us a little bit about
5:24
your military experience and how that all worked out for you,
5:27
Doctor. Yeah, so I joined the military
5:31
when I was 17. I graduated high school at 16
5:36
and didn't want to work at McDonald's anymore.
5:39
So I was like, Get Me Out of here and went to the recruiter
5:44
and told him like, how fast can I leave?
5:47
And I needed to like, I grew up in a small town, so I, I was
5:52
ready to get out of there and. They must have loved you.
5:55
Oh my gosh, it was rough. It was rough.
6:00
Actually. I grew up dealing with a lot of
6:02
racism and it it got old and I was like, how do I?
6:07
That's also why I graduated high school so young too, because I
6:10
was, I worked really hard because I was like, I know I
6:13
have to complete this, but this other noise is not great.
6:17
So I did finish. And then I was like, what else
6:21
is that? What does life have to offer me?
6:23
And that's where I went to the Army recruiter and got out of
6:28
there and everybody asked like, how did you pick Army?
6:32
And I just went to the closest station and like, there was no
6:37
thought behind it. You know, at a, at age 17,
6:40
there's no thought behind it. Wait.
6:42
Wait a minute, So you literally, you know, got high school a year
6:45
early? I said no, I just want to do
6:47
this and walked in the recruiting station.
6:50
Yeah, I had already taken the ASVAB because they you could get
6:54
out of whatever period class it was.
6:57
And so I was like, Oh yeah, I'll go take it.
7:00
And I actually ended up scoring well because I just, I guess I
7:05
was reading the questions and answering the responses, But it
7:08
was cool. My dad was a Navy that he was in
7:12
Vietnam and I know that like my uncles were in the service and
7:18
my grandfather on my mom's side was in World War 2.
7:23
And so like I knew there's military background, but it's
7:26
all the men and there, there were no women that I knew of
7:29
that went to the service. So I was doing something
7:33
completely different and I had to get my parents permission to
7:36
do it. And they were like, my dad was
7:38
like, no, he, he was like, absolutely not.
7:41
And he said there is no place for a woman.
7:46
And I took it the wrong way. I took it like, I can do
7:50
anything, you know? And that's not what he meant.
7:53
That's not what he meant at all. He, he lived through Vietnam.
7:57
And also he was a black soldier in Vietnam.
7:59
So that experience was pretty tough for him.
8:03
So I get where he was coming from now, but as a teenager, no.
8:08
I was like, no, I'm going to do it.
8:10
But I convinced him because there was not many other
8:13
opportunities there. So him and my mom signed and
8:18
then I was off to the Army. You join the Army, you go
8:23
through boot camp and and what was your MOS when you got out of
8:26
boot camp and AIT? So it was a 92 golf, which now
8:30
is a culinary specialist cook. And so I went to culinary school
8:35
after basic and that was at Fort Lee and I already knew how to
8:41
cook, but it was cool like learning how to cook the Army
8:44
way. That's a little bit different.
8:46
Got to follow recipes and all that kind of stuff.
8:49
And. Cook for like hundreds of people
8:52
at a time. Hundreds.
8:54
Yes, I, I think the most was maybe like 500 at a training.
8:59
We were in Nevada and it was a mobile kitchen trailer that we
9:04
were cooking on and so. I wanted to ask you about that
9:07
because they brought those out for a few extra size we were
9:11
doing and it was a complete mobile kitchen.
9:14
Yeah, I mean water the whole 9 yards right there.
9:18
Yep, generators. And you know the place where you
9:22
eat as well. So people think like, oh, cook
9:27
is easy. And it's really not like you
9:30
still have to do everything that everybody else does.
9:32
And you know, you have to get up really early to make sure that
9:36
breakfast is ready for everybody before they go out.
9:39
They get MRE's for lunch and then we maybe take a little nap
9:43
where the where they're getting MRE's and then we have to get
9:46
right back up and prep for dinner.
9:48
So your sleep is broken. So you're after dinner, you're
9:52
cleaning up, so you're they are pretty late and then you got to
9:55
get right back up and do it again.
9:56
So you know the broken sleep can get to you if you let it.
10:01
Well, that too is, you know, we we had some not so good chow
10:07
experiences sometimes in the field.
10:09
And even though we weren't in combat, you know, by day number
10:12
seven of us having, you know, the cooks were mad.
10:15
I don't know what was going on. Like lieutenants almost had to
10:18
order us to eat this stuff 'cause we wanted just to eat the
10:21
Mr. ES. So when, when, when the food
10:24
goes bad, the whole mood goes bad.
10:27
You are very important. Absolutely.
10:30
That's very important. I actually ended up getting a
10:35
challenge coin for that Nevada training because I smiled all
10:40
the time and made jokes and laughed and that kind of stuff.
10:44
And that's that was what he said when he gave me the coin.
10:48
It was a commence arm major and he said, you know what, you
10:51
really just kept us going like every day and I and I just being
10:56
me. So I was like, really, I get it.
10:59
I was so honored, but I was like for being myself.
11:01
I love this. How long did you serve in the
11:04
army, Doctor? Nine years.
11:07
Nine years. I switched to reserves and then
11:10
completed my time, but I got out on a medical retirement.
11:16
OK. Oh well.
11:17
Yeah, so I actually had tore my shoulder and didn't know I tore
11:22
it at the time. And time went by and I had
11:26
trouble with my unit getting medical care and there was a
11:29
congressional in there and finally got my medical care.
11:34
And then that by that time it was like a Med board started and
11:39
everything. So actually ended up getting out
11:42
before my contract was over. So is this where the beginning
11:48
of your path to doing this, you know, mental Wellness,
11:52
resilience and other kinds of training, is this what started?
11:57
Well, I was still in when that started.
12:01
Like so I while I was in the service, I got pregnant, got
12:08
married and our daughter had a terminal illness and she was
12:13
born with pulmonary vein stenosis.
12:16
And so there's no cure for it even today.
12:21
So I knew it was terminal. They told me like when we found
12:24
out, like I think she's like 3 months when we found out and I
12:29
knew that part, but I was still in the reserves and I just kind
12:35
of did everything I could for her with like we moved to Boston
12:39
to be at Boston Children's Hospital and switched my unit
12:43
and you know, still was reserved unit and stuff like that.
12:46
But I, I think going through that journey is what led me to
12:52
the mental health field because then I was studying business and
12:57
I got my associates in business, but it all changed direction for
13:01
me because I was like, you know what, after I lost her, my dad
13:05
passed away and like that year was just ugly.
13:09
And then I started divorce process too, all in the same
13:12
year. And I was like, how do people
13:14
live? Afterlife keeps gut punching
13:17
you, you know, And so I got curious and I started learning
13:21
about psychology and that's where it began.
13:25
I started to kind of fall in love with the brain work and
13:30
then realized shortly after that there was only so much impact I
13:34
can make. And then I was like, I need a
13:36
master's degree. I got to go clinical mental
13:40
health and get licensed. And then I was like, well, the
13:44
pandemic happened. Then I was like, I'll just get
13:46
my PhD and I'll teach therapist how to be great therapist.
13:50
And so it just kept going after that, but it started with loss.
13:55
So not just a little loss, you know, marriage, daughter, father
14:00
who had a a very deep impact on your life.
14:04
And. And so now you're teaching this,
14:06
but you've also lived this. I think one of the things for,
14:11
for me and, and you know, when I, I, I went to therapy for a
14:14
little while is like, this person hasn't lived, has never
14:19
lived this. How are they talking to me about
14:21
this? So how does that influence or
14:25
affect how you approach people situations in because you you've
14:30
had to live what they're going through?
14:31
Maybe not, but you understand loss on a very personal level.
14:35
Yeah, I think it's super helpful because people could tell, like
14:40
even when I worked at Walter Reed, the active duty people
14:44
will come in and talk to me about stuff and they would tell
14:47
me like, we can tell. Like this isn't just book
14:49
knowledge, you know, and book knowledge is great, but lived
14:53
experience Trump's it every time because people people know like,
14:59
you know, they might judge you or the way that you look like.
15:01
OK, here we go. I'm going to this therapist
15:04
here. But if I share a little bit
15:06
about me, I don't need to tell them my life story or anything
15:09
like that, but I can share with them that I've experienced pain
15:13
that's very deep. Then they start to kind of like
15:16
let their guard down a little bit and say, OK, so so you know
15:20
what I'm talking about. Then especially if I share that
15:22
I'm a veteran too and that I've been through basic training and
15:26
all the other things, then they're like, OK, now we can
15:29
talk because we're kind of on the same level here.
15:34
Was education during this time of loss kind of a way to cope
15:39
and heal for you, or was it the the goal?
15:42
Like I'm going to become a doctor so I can, you know, help
15:46
others heal? Yeah, a little bit of both.
15:50
I was going to say, I think it's a little bit of both because I
15:52
needed to be busy in a positive way because I worked in
15:57
substance abuse when I got my bachelor's degree and I helped
16:01
people get off of heroin and other opiates.
16:04
And I would talk to them about their stories and how they got
16:07
there. And some of them were parents
16:11
that have lost children. And so I'm thinking in my head,
16:14
why did I not go that route? You know, like it's, it's still
16:19
pain. You know, it hurts a lot.
16:21
And it was just interesting that I made a different choice.
16:25
So I, I would assure them like, I'm no better than you.
16:28
Listen, we both hurt and we both have to cope, but it's just the
16:32
choices that we make when it comes to how do we cope.
16:35
And so for me, it was more like I'm going to finish my degree
16:40
and have some purpose behind the loss rather than let the loss
16:44
take over my life. Not to say too long here, but I
16:47
do. I do want to kind of understand
16:49
that like you had some forks in the road to, to corner phrase,
16:54
right? You had some choices to make and
16:57
you didn't make a a negative choice.
16:59
You chose to to dig in and make a a positive choice or choice
17:04
that would have a positive outcome.
17:06
Yeah, I mean, my first choice was negative.
17:09
So let me let me share that part too.
17:13
You know, So when it first happened, I didn't know what to
17:17
do with myself. And it's almost like you're
17:21
losing an identity. And every parent's worst fear is
17:24
to that they're going to lose their kid.
17:27
And like that happened, you know, in real life.
17:30
And I was there for the last moment.
17:32
And then a couple months later, I lost my dad and I was there
17:36
for the last moment. And so I'm like, what else?
17:40
You know, by then, the divorce didn't even matter that much.
17:44
So for me, yeah, I was like, OK, well, I'm I just need to go to
17:48
the bar and just sit here because I don't want this pain
17:51
to keep going. But after about two weeks of
17:55
that, like maybe not every day, but just like often it's, it was
18:00
too much. I was like, I can't like, first
18:02
of all, I don't feel good physically and I don't like I, I
18:06
know the bartender probably knew all of my business.
18:09
So I was like, OK, how do we do something different here?
18:14
And for me, I had to leave, leave my hometown where I was
18:17
living at that time because I needed to do something
18:20
different. And I needed to that to not be
18:23
my only identity because I would walk in stores and they would
18:26
say, Oh, my God, are you OK? I'm like, well, I was trying to
18:30
be. But actually, no, no, I'm not,
18:32
you know? And so I moved, and I went to
18:35
school on campus at Delaware State.
18:37
And that's what allowed me to only share that if I wanted to
18:42
share that because nobody knew me.
18:44
And so that's what allowed me to focus on the books.
18:48
And then if I wanted to share that part of me, I could.
18:50
But if not, I could just keep it to myself.
18:52
All they knew was I was another student, a transfer student.
18:56
So you go through this process where you understand you have to
18:59
remove yourself and put yourself in a different environment and
19:04
then get your doctorate. What start happening to you as
19:08
you go through your your doctor process, as you're healing from
19:13
you know these, you know 3 losses right in a row?
19:17
Yeah, man, it was hard. I had to look in the mirror.
19:21
And I mean, I think anytime you're studying like psychology
19:25
or you're trying to become a therapist, you cannot help but
19:29
to be different than you started because you have to face your
19:32
stuff. And there's a level of
19:34
self-awareness that comes with that.
19:36
And so you can never really be the same.
19:39
So as I'm going through the program, I'm learning so much
19:42
about myself and how to cope and how the brain changes with
19:46
healing, like physical changes and learning about the
19:49
neurobiology behind it. And you know, so there's a lot
19:53
of like encouragement that's happening, but it's also really,
19:56
really challenging too because everything feels like a trigger,
20:00
you know? And then I'm learning, OK, what
20:03
do I do with the triggers and how do I get through this?
20:06
So almost like self help but to the extreme.
20:11
Is the mind really that powerful, Doctor?
20:15
Absolutely. Yeah, go ahead.
20:19
I want to bounce something off you because you know, through,
20:22
through my life, I, I nothing like what you went through, but
20:26
I, I did go through a period of, of loss and physical trauma and
20:30
one thing I found out is, you know, you can get pretty
20:33
comfortable being in pain. In other words, I, I knew what
20:38
pain was. I, I knew it, I, I could almost
20:41
see it and I was comfortable in it.
20:45
And it was very hard to kind of let go and let healing take
20:49
place because I was so comfortable being in pain.
20:53
Do you, do you find that in your own experience being a provider?
20:58
Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of times
21:01
where we're used to chaos, but that and that's like the norm or
21:05
we're used to like pain as the norm and like we learn how to
21:11
cope. We're survivors, we're
21:12
resilient, we're soldiers, we're, you know, there's,
21:16
there's a lot of resilience that comes with that.
21:19
And something I learned along the way was like, just because
21:22
you're resilient doesn't mean that you're healing.
21:25
And that looks a little bit different.
21:27
And so that's what I chose to do my dissertation on, like looking
21:31
at those kind of things. Now why is it and that?
21:34
That's just blowing my mind. But why is no, no, no.
21:38
But because usually it's like, well, I'm resilient.
21:40
I can, I can take a punch, I can take lights.
21:43
You know, I'm OK, but it's not healing.
21:45
It's not. Right, because resilience means
21:51
survival. And we've learned that if you've
21:54
been through basic training, if you've been through hard
21:57
circumstances in life, we have learned to be resilient kids
22:01
that go through childhood trauma.
22:04
That kid adapts to live whatever that looks like.
22:09
And so all of us have it. You know, it's a good thing to
22:12
have, right? However, at some point, what,
22:16
when does that start to harm you?
22:18
And it looks different for each and every person.
22:20
So going back to my substance abuse experience, at some point
22:25
that resilience equals, OK, I, I drink a little bit or I, I will
22:31
do a little bit of drugs, you know, to forget it, but then it
22:35
comes right back. So now I got to do a little bit
22:38
more, but then it comes right back.
22:40
And so it's like now I've gotten to this point where I'm not
22:44
necessarily choosing to be a drug user, but I have to because
22:49
this is how I know how to cope and this is how I know how to
22:52
survive this thing. And so that's where the trauma
22:56
healing comes into place because we have to go back and get it.
22:59
Wherever we got stuck in our trauma, we have to go back and
23:03
get it and give ourselves a new narrative and so that we can
23:07
cope, but in a better and a healthy way.
23:11
You go through all this, you complete your education, become
23:14
a doctor. Doctor Jordan, who is with me
23:17
here on OM Radio. But you had to build your own
23:21
practice to do what you're doing now.
23:23
Kind of take me through the, through the business side of, of
23:26
building yourself out as a practice.
23:28
And then you, you know, working on what you have learned over,
23:32
you know, the course of your lifetime.
23:35
Yeah, Business wise, I bootstrapped it all the way.
23:40
So it was really out of necessity at first.
23:44
Like I worked at Walter Reed for a little while after the
23:47
substance abuse clinic and I took those skills to get my
23:53
license. And then I worked at a clinic
23:55
here that specializes in trauma. And then my mom, she had, I
24:02
think she broke her knee. Yeah, it was her knee that she
24:04
broke. And she lives about an hour and
24:07
a half away. So I had to be there for her.
24:10
And traveling back and forth was starting to get to me.
24:14
So I was like, you know what, I got to do something different.
24:18
And for this job, I couldn't be all telehealth.
24:20
And so I said I got to, I'm going to have to put in my
24:24
notice and start something of my own.
24:26
And so it literally was just that it was, I got to.
24:31
And so when I started to do that, luckily the practice that
24:36
I worked for, they didn't care if you took your clients or not.
24:39
There's there was not a non compete or anything like that in
24:42
place. So they were like, OK, are they
24:44
coming with you? And I asked every person and I
24:47
think everyone but two came with me.
24:49
So now I have this new practice with like 28 people.
24:53
And so that was really cool, but I was overwhelmed and I just had
24:57
to kind of figure it out. Like I knew of the therapy part,
25:00
but I didn't know like all about the billing and all the extra
25:04
hours that you put in to set it up.
25:07
So I kind of built the plane while I was flying it.
25:12
How has all this figured into what you do now then?
25:15
Because you, you don't have a typical, you know, medical
25:19
practitioner experience where you got high school, went to
25:23
college and, you know, got your masters and got your doctor.
25:26
You've taken a very different route.
25:29
Yeah, for me, I don't want people to struggle like I did,
25:34
so I try to. I always tell people I became
25:37
who I needed back then. And like I remember being in the
25:42
service and getting out and, and through there was a period where
25:46
there was a break where I wrote to get out because I wanted to
25:51
focus on my daughter. And then that was like December
25:55
2013 where they granted me the IRR where I could be in the
26:00
inactive ready reserves. And then January she died.
26:04
So I was like, put me back in because I don't know what to do
26:08
with myself. And so like there was a period
26:11
where I was like, I see why when we get out we struggle because
26:15
then it's like, what do I do now?
26:16
And I don't have this backup plan here.
26:19
And then everybody says go to therapy.
26:22
So I went to therapy, but my therapy experience was not good
26:25
and I was invalidated in my therapy experience.
26:29
So all of this has helped me because when I show up, I don't
26:35
ever want people to feel invalidated.
26:37
And if they do, I want them to tell me so we could talk about
26:40
it. And I just try to make it so
26:42
that I walk with them on their journey and they don't have to
26:47
feel alone. And same thing on the coaching
26:49
side, like coaching business owners through the mindset stuff
26:53
that comes up like the imposter syndrome or the black or white
26:57
thinking. And I kind of help them through
27:00
those challenges as well. But more on the coaching, yeah.
27:06
One of the things you also do is you're like a mental Wellness
27:09
speaker and you're, you've offered some books.
27:12
How did you get into speaking about this?
27:15
Is it just another way to offer a service or is this really
27:19
something that you want to Share your story with others as a as a
27:23
as a way to heal as well? Yeah, I want people to know,
27:27
like, even if you don't go to therapy, there's other ways that
27:30
you can get help or feel seen or heard or get tools or tips.
27:36
The first time I spoke was actually in college.
27:38
Then it was a lupus walk that they were having.
27:42
And that was the first time I publicly spoke about losing my
27:45
daughter and how like, I still had to keep going.
27:50
And that was when I was in my undergrad program and I was
27:54
like, wow, what made me do that? But I think it was to just tell
27:57
my story. But also I people kept coming up
28:01
to me afterwards and they were like, thank you for this.
28:04
This really helped me and inspired me.
28:08
And now I'm going to go do this thing.
28:10
And I'm like, oh, really, just from what I said just now, you
28:13
know. And so I realized it had value
28:16
and I was just like, OK, I'm going to, maybe I'll write a
28:20
story. And it took me years to write my
28:23
book, like 10 years to write my book because it was because
28:27
you're going back to the. And so I was like, OK, this is
28:32
hard. I need some help.
28:34
So I ended up getting a book coach and we, we worked on it
28:37
together. And finally I had a published
28:40
product, but it was hard. Because you're having to
28:45
experience all that again and then put down on words.
28:49
I mean, you're trying to put that behind you because could be
28:53
brought up again. I guess for the speaking part of
28:57
it is kind of different from me because generally when I think
29:00
of a therapist or a mental health professional, you know,
29:03
the patient's talking to you. You're not talking to, you know,
29:08
people or the patient. So it, it, it's different.
29:13
But you, you said people responded to it though.
29:16
Well, right. Yeah, I just spoke last month at
29:21
Disabled American Veterans Headquarters and they have a
29:25
Patriot boot camp that they do for entrepreneurs.
29:28
And I was like, I wonder if I could bring the mental health
29:33
perspective and what how that would be and how that would
29:35
land. And it was really cool because I
29:38
just talked about I created a, a framework and I shared that with
29:43
them and it landed like they were there.
29:47
You can see the wheels turn in. And some of the the vets they
29:52
shared in the group setting, they shared some deep stuff,
29:55
like a guy there had lost his child and he talked about how he
30:00
feels like a nervous wreck sometimes.
30:03
And we were able to kind of talk that through.
30:06
And then you saw like the group support him too, like telling
30:09
him like what they do to get through stuff.
30:11
And it was a whole moment. And I was like, yes, this is
30:14
This is why I do what I do. Like it was, it was beautiful.
30:18
Well, it's kind of one, one things I want to ask you is you,
30:21
you have to give it yourself for this kind of work.
30:25
It's, it's not just listening there.
30:26
You have to. You have to lean in and be
30:29
connected with the person who's coming to you for help.
30:32
Right. What's it?
30:34
What's it like walking their journey with them?
30:36
Doctor Jordan. Oh man, I love it, but it's
30:42
hard. You know.
30:43
So like if I have if I do something like that, I don't
30:47
schedule anything else. I need to rest afterwards
30:49
because I, I feel very drained when I'm done, but I love it
30:54
while we're doing it. It's very much you're not alone
30:58
type of thing. And also let's figure this out
31:00
together. And that's what changes lives,
31:03
right There is the hope that we plant.
31:06
And not only the hope that we plant, but the actual skills and
31:09
tools cause a lot of people want to know, what do I do?
31:12
Like, I hear you. I know I'm supposed to feel my
31:14
feelings, but what do I do when I feel them, you know?
31:17
And so we take it a step further and they're like, oh, so that I
31:22
can start to practice this. And it's the same thing as skill
31:25
building, but it's mental. And as you're going through
31:29
there, I mean, there is a cost, right?
31:32
I mean, not just the, the, the, the, the, the, the time,
31:36
everything, but there is an energy cost.
31:38
What do you more than rest? What do you do to recharge your
31:41
your inner battery so you can keep, you know, working in this
31:45
space? Yeah, I learned, like when I was
31:48
writing my dissertation, I wrote it on, I looked at black mothers
31:54
who have lost their only children because that was my
31:56
story. And so I'm to learn through this
31:59
process that after I interview each woman and we talked about
32:03
their grief and one of the ladies, Oh my gosh, her story
32:06
was very similar to mine. But what I learned is I had to
32:11
journal after everyone. I had to keep a reflective
32:14
journal because their story is not mine.
32:18
So I don't want to internalize their story, but you do a little
32:22
bit. So externalizing it would be
32:24
putting it in the journal and giving it to the journal and
32:27
then kind of closing it. And that was the closure for me.
32:31
So I try to do that after events and stuff like that.
32:34
And there's a lot of gratefulness that I practice.
32:36
A lot of gratitude comes from these experiences, too.
32:41
So hypothetically, I come to you and say, you know, Doctor
32:44
Jordan, I'm in this state, you know, X state, you know, I'm,
32:47
I'm not well, I, I know I need help.
32:50
I don't know quite what to do. What is your your process then
32:54
to intake that patient and start walking him through this
32:57
journey? Well, I operate with curiosity.
33:01
I want to know like more specifically what challenges
33:05
they have. My goal is to know more.
33:11
So I'm going to be kind of quiet and just listen to like what's
33:15
happening for them. So if somebody's coming to me
33:20
for work stress or something like that in the therapy world,
33:25
I'm going to, I want to hear more about how it's affecting
33:28
them. So like most of the time it's
33:31
like sleep problems or if somebody's come in like for I'm
33:36
trying to think of a PTSD case. There was a shooting here that
33:39
happened and a person that I got, I got them almost like a
33:44
year after. So they were actually really
33:46
struggling with not sleeping, with loss of joy in life that
33:52
they don't want to do the things that they used to love doing.
33:55
And they started to see themselves decline and they
33:59
started to see someone that wasn't trauma trained and that
34:02
actually made it worse for them. So by the time they got to me,
34:06
there was a lot of like work that we needed to do to even
34:09
create safety in their body because they had such a huge
34:13
startle response that every time this was in person, every time
34:16
the radiator would click, they would almost jump out of their
34:19
skin. And so me and him did a lot of
34:22
work together. And after like, I don't know, I
34:26
do EMDR therapy. So that's the eye movement
34:30
therapy and it gets to the trauma center of the brain to
34:34
help move you forward and no. No, no, I don't know.
34:38
But how's that work? What's the MDR stand for?
34:42
So eye movement desensitization and reprocessing so, so a lot of
34:48
words. So I, so I tell people the eye
34:51
movement therapy and but what it, it, what it does is you're
34:55
using like you're following somebody, like watching your
34:59
eyes or you can do tapping, but it stimulates your brain
35:04
bilaterally. So left and right.
35:06
Left is mostly logic, right is emotion.
35:10
So we have to connect that in order for our trauma to move
35:13
forward. And so with this person, we, we
35:17
know how to compartmentalize right, because we know how to
35:19
survive. We put it away, this person put
35:22
it away of course, but that put it away was showing up in
35:25
nightmares and you know, all type of things that were
35:28
happening for this individual. Once we go in and we have the
35:33
bilateral stimulation, it allows the brain to connect with the
35:37
experience and what happened in a safe environment.
35:40
And so I don't even, he doesn't even have to tell me what
35:43
happened. We just need like a headline.
35:45
So for instance, 1 of it was like the shooter's eyes.
35:49
I still see the shooter's eyes. And so when we're when we do the
35:53
session, he doesn't have to tell me exactly what's happening, but
35:57
he's, whatever is happening in his brain is connecting all the
36:00
dots. And so it's intense, but also
36:04
the intensity dies. So it's like a wave.
36:06
So it's intense because I have to face it, but once I face it,
36:09
it starts to, it starts to lose his power.
36:12
And so he was very fascinated. Like I still see them, but it's
36:16
not causing the same reaction. And that's where the healing
36:20
takes place because I still see it.
36:24
It still happened. We're not changing reality.
36:26
But literally, it doesn't have that power over me.
36:29
And then, and then his startle response went away too.
36:32
He wasn't jumping out of his skin just for every click or
36:35
every car going by or anything like that.
36:38
So that's how, and that's why this is number one of the number
36:41
one treatments that the VA recognizes for PTSD.
36:46
So there was many more, there was much more work to do, but
36:50
that was like the start of his work.
36:51
And it was very beautiful to see that calmness just come over his
36:55
body. Now, I don't know much about
36:58
this area, but one thing listening to you is that I'm not
37:03
hearing is, Hey, I prescribed X medication for this Y, you know,
37:10
issue. And is, is that by design or are
37:14
you trying to find ways to not use medication?
37:17
Because when I think of therapist, I think of the guy
37:20
saying, Hey, you know what, you know, 10 milligrams of Xanax a
37:23
day for the next, you know, as needed.
37:26
But I I haven't heard that in your conversation with me.
37:30
Yeah. And so I try to take my personal
37:35
bias out of it. And I asked them what they want
37:39
so that that particular case did not want to be on medication,
37:42
but they had to be because they were having nightmares every
37:45
night. So I told him, OK, we're going
37:47
to have to go to the trauma and we'll see.
37:50
I can't guarantee you anything, but we'll, we'll try this out,
37:54
right? And so I'm like, I think I know
37:56
exactly what you need. So we go through the process and
37:59
I think maybe like 3 or 4 months, he was able to contact
38:03
his medication prescriber and start to wean off of it because
38:07
he wasn't having nightmares anymore.
38:09
He was having like how we'd normally have nightmares like
38:12
once a blue moon, you know, and so, but it was every single
38:17
night, like predictable. And so he had to kind of face it
38:22
And he, when he's, when he faced it, that's when he was able to
38:26
start to like work through what some of the challenges were.
38:29
And I do, I do this in groups too.
38:32
And it's really, really cool because you your brain changes
38:37
and like their studies to show like the physical changes that
38:40
your brain is making as well. So we always talk about PTSD and
38:45
we know all the effects of it, but post traumatic growth looks,
38:49
looks like brain changes too. But it's changing in a way that
38:53
I'm getting rid of some of the stuck points.
38:55
I don't have to stay there anymore.
38:57
It's already happened. I've already faced what's still
38:59
bothering me about it and now I'm good to go.
39:02
So but it's work, but it we get there.
39:07
One thing that comes to mind as we're talking is, you know, I,
39:11
I'm was of the mindset that, you know, we we know a lot about the
39:15
brain, but it seems like, you know, there's a lot about the
39:19
brain we don't know. I mean, am I right in thinking
39:22
that doctor? Yeah.
39:23
I mean, there's a lot that we do know, but I think there's also a
39:26
lot that we don't know. And so I try to always use
39:30
evidence based theories when in my work because like, like EMDR
39:35
has been heavily researched. And so there's literally a
39:39
protocol. And as a military person, we
39:42
love a good protocol, you know, So I like went to this because
39:48
exposure therapy is kind of painful for people.
39:51
And I mean, it works too. But if I could do this method to
39:55
where it's not as painful, I'm going to do that.
39:58
That sounds bad to me. As you go through and 1 build
40:04
out your practice, but two, you know, and it is practice, you
40:08
know, what do you feel is, is the next challenge for you?
40:12
Because you know, underneath it all, I think you like a
40:14
challenge, Doctor Jordan, I think you, I think you like a
40:17
challenge. You got to have something to
40:19
into. Maybe I'm wrong here, but is
40:22
there is there another challenge you want to, you know, head,
40:26
head, head, face on? Yeah, I, I want to do, I'm, I'm
40:31
building my first retreat. And that has been challenging
40:36
because there's so much that goes into building it and
40:39
securing the space and all the things.
40:43
And, but I don't want it to be a trauma retreat.
40:45
I want it to be for the, the veteran or the spouse, the
40:52
family, first responder, caregiver, like people who they,
40:58
they're, who they hold all the weight and they need to just put
41:01
it down for a minute. We can, we can hustle to have
41:05
our businesses and stuff, but we also need some harmony with that
41:09
as well. So that's what I want to create.
41:11
I want to create a space to do that.
41:14
And that's been my next challenge.
41:16
And it has been challenging because I need help with this.
41:18
And so asking for help, right, learning that we need others and
41:23
that is OK to, to ask. That's been a journey for me.
41:28
Oh well, what a what a different side of of the coin, if you will
41:32
of in order to heal more, you need to ask, ask for help to
41:35
heal and Edward become your own patient almost and.
41:41
I and I do I I seek help too. Like now I'm like OK I don't
41:45
know what this is about but I need to explore this a little
41:49
bit because I I don't want to stay stuck here 'cause that
41:52
would keep me from doing my next thing.
41:54
Yeah, yeah. How can people, I mean, do you
41:58
just treat locally or do you do telehealth across the nation?
42:03
I'm asking because if people want to contact you, you know,
42:07
for treatment, what's the best way to do that?
42:09
Yeah. So for for therapy, I'm licensed
42:13
in Maryland and Virginia. So that license is strictly
42:18
those two places. So Maryland law says if I treat
42:23
somebody for therapy, they need to be in the state of Maryland.
42:26
So that could be telehealth, They could be in person.
42:29
A lot of times I'll go to like, the Veterans service Center and
42:31
get like a drop in space, and we can do that there.
42:35
But As for like coaching or training or speaking, that can
42:39
be wherever. Like last year I spoke at a
42:42
retreat in South Africa. And yeah, so I I get around if I
42:47
need to. What?
42:49
Was that experience like? Man, it was incredible.
42:52
I was like, do I have to go home?
42:55
It was so cool, like welcoming. And this was with other
42:59
clinicians and a couple people that actually are live and are
43:05
from South Africa joined us. So it was it was a really
43:09
incredible experience. And again, just sharing my story
43:12
and sharing more on the speaker side of how it resonates with
43:18
people and to to Share your story and that was cool.
43:23
Awesome, awesome. So I'm out there and I want to
43:26
learn more about you, your services, your books, and your
43:31
speaking. Is it?
43:32
What's the website to contact you Doctor Jordan?
43:34
Yeah. So I put everything in one
43:37
place. It's bio bio dot aerial ARIELLEN
43:45
for nicolejordanjordan.com. So bio.aerialinjordan.com.
43:52
Well, I will, I will have that link on the OM Radio website
43:55
post for this podcast. You'll be able to go there and
43:58
check it out. You know, I think I've learned
44:02
that really what the mind can conceive, the mind truly can
44:06
achieve. But also, it almost sounds like
44:09
you get people to a point where they can heal themselves.
44:13
Almost, if I'm listening to you correctly.
44:17
That's the key. Yeah, like knowing that your
44:19
brain can heal is incredible. And you might need somebody in
44:24
the passenger seat to like, tell you the directions on how to get
44:27
there. But essentially you're doing it
44:29
yourself, which is what I really love about it too, because I'm
44:33
not doing it, You're doing the work.
44:35
And so that's super empowering for you because all you needed
44:39
was like to, to let me guide you there.
44:42
But once you got there, you're like, huh, that's interesting.
44:46
This no longer bothers me the way it used to.
44:49
And some people don't believe it because it happened so fast.
44:52
And then like, I'll check in with them the week after and
44:55
they're like, this is wild. Did you hypnotize me?
44:58
And I'm like, no, you were aware of what you were doing the whole
45:01
time, right? So no, it wasn't.
45:03
It wasn't hypnotism. What's it like at that point
45:07
seeing them accept this and do things they didn't think they
45:12
could do or just to have a better quality of life Doctor?
45:16
We start usually we'll we'll start laughing together because
45:19
it's kind of funny because I think that there's we we just
45:23
don't know that this will work is they come to me hoping.
45:27
And then I'm like, OK, if you if you're curious, we can do some
45:31
work. Let's let's try it.
45:33
And so I, I actually had a, a previous client that was dealing
45:38
with crying spells. And every time you mention like
45:42
the job tears were dropped. And after one EMDR session, they
45:49
noticed that there's, I can hear about it and, and tears aren't
45:54
dropping. It still bothers me, but I'm not
45:57
crying. And I'm just like, huh.
46:00
Then I was like one week later. So it was, it's, it's really
46:02
cool to see it happening because I know what, I know what the
46:06
outcome is going to be is going to be better, but I don't know
46:09
exactly how it's going to be better.
46:11
And then when they report back, well, I noticed I took a pause
46:15
before I went from zero to 100. You know, that's the kind of
46:18
stuff that they notice and that's the real like lifelong
46:21
changes that that they'll take with them forever.
46:25
So the change is forever. You can heal yourself, you just
46:28
got to be curious enough to want to do the work.
46:31
Fantastic. Yeah.
46:34
I want to thank you for coming on OM Radio and sharing with us.
46:38
I, I have just, I'm going to go back during editing and just
46:41
really have to slow this down and, and you know, play it a
46:44
couple times. But I, I've learned a lot,
46:46
doctor, and I want to thank you for coming on.
46:48
Thank you for having me. I, I love to have these type of
46:51
conversations and just encourage people that if you want to try
46:56
something different, if you get it from a, a talk that you went
47:01
to, if you get it from a book or if you get it from individual or
47:04
group therapy, whatever way you get it, just get it because we
47:08
can live well. We can live better, you know.
47:13
Absolutely, absolutely. Well, again, I'm going to have
47:16
your link Doctor in the Osmic Rio Show post.
47:19
Reach out to Doctor Jordan also. Hey, are your books for sale?
47:24
Yeah, so I'm on Amazon and my that bio.aerialinjordan.com has
47:30
those links as well. Awesome.
47:34
Well, I'll have a couple of those links in the show post as
47:36
well. I'm interested in checking out
47:37
your your authorship and what you've done.
47:40
And as I want to say here in OM Radio, I hope you've learned
47:43
something and we're going to close this out with Mission
47:46
Flight. Thank you very much.
49:14
The biggest fear Goldstar families have that their child
49:17
will be forgotten. We need to never forget freedom
49:20
wasn't free. The fact that they give us the
49:23
life we have now, we should remember them and like give
49:26
thanks to them. If I can be a part of something
49:28
today that's going to make the surviving family of any of these
49:31
veterans, these heroes, feel better tomorrow, then it's worth
49:34
it. That one wreath symbolizes one
49:36
family, one family that was able to smile because of DeGeneres
49:39
donations. To sponsor a reef and honor a
49:41
veteran, visit wreathsacrossamerica.org.
49:46
Thank you for listening and watching OM Radio where our
49:50
active duty service members and veterans are in action and the
49:55
mission is in flight. OM Radio is an oversized load
50:01
coasts to one production. If you are a veteran or you're a
50:07
veteran who needs help, please dial 98 and press one for the
50:13
Veterans prices line.