Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Stop Being the Bad Guy: Let Consequences Do the Heavy Lifting | Ep. 147

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Stop Being the Bad Guy: Let Consequences Do the Heavy Lifting | Ep. 147 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker: What if parenting wasn't about micromanaging behavior, but about teaching kids how life works?
• 0:15
  Speaker: Let's be honest, enforcing consequences can feel exhausting.
• 0:21
  Speaker: I'm Cheryl Ang, and today on The Parenting Podcast, we're exploring how to make consequences your secret ally.
• 0:31
  Speaker: It's not about being the bad guy.
• 0:34
  Speaker: It's about showing our kids how their choices shape their world without the endless lectures.
• 0:42
  Speaker: or constant correction.
• 0:45
  Speaker: Curious how to parent with more impact and less stress?
• 0:49
  Speaker: Let's get started.
• 0:58
  Cheryl: And hello to you all again today.
• 1:00
  Cheryl: Hi.
• 1:01
  Cheryl: Hello.
• 1:02
  Cheryl: Good.
• 1:02
  Cheryl: And we're so excited to have Michelle back in here with us.
• 1:05
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 1:06
  Cheryl: Thank you for opening up your schedule to come.
• 1:08
  Cheryl: Yeah, this is great.
• 1:09
  Cheryl: It's really helpful for me.
• 1:11
  Danae: I'm learning about consequences as we're talking.
• 1:14
  Cheryl: Because.
• 1:16
  Cheryl: Uh, listeners, our last episode we got talking about consequences and we just couldn't finish it up on one recording.
• 1:24
  Cheryl: So we're going to come back again, talk about it.
• 1:26
  Cheryl: That's our consequence that we didn't
• 1:29
  Christie: finish it.
• 1:29
  Christie: We gabbed too long.
• 1:31
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 1:31
  Cheryl: one of the wonderful benefits of what God has done, when you raise children, you don't have them for 15 minutes.
• 1:37
  Cheryl: You have them for about 20 years, right?
• 1:40
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 1:41
  Cheryl: So we always have the chance to do something new or different or better.
• 1:45
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 1:46
  Cheryl: All right.
• 1:46
  Cheryl: One of the situations is one of my children in their parenting, had not been consistent about consequences at bedtime.
• 1:55
  Cheryl: So children get out of bed a lot and they talk and then, Oh, I need a drink.
• 1:59
  Cheryl: Now I need to go to the bathroom again, like 16 times.
• 2:02
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 2:03
  Cheryl: But going to bed had been a little bit like that.
• 2:05
  Cheryl: And so when they were visiting me, um, they were going through a transition and the parents were trying to be more consistent and saying, when I asked you to go to bed, it's now time to stay in bed.
• 2:19
  Cheryl: And again, this is gentle parenting, so they only use consequences and to talk about it.
• 2:24
  Cheryl: So the problem was, if you talked and played.
• 2:28
  Cheryl: On Tuesday night, then Wednesday night, you had to go to bed 10 minutes earlier.
• 2:32
  Cheryl: Well, that's devastating when you want to step play.
• 2:35
  Cheryl: Now, the nice thing is they can't tell time real well.
• 2:38
  Cheryl: So, even if it's 8.
• 2:40
  Cheryl: 30, you can say, Wow, this is 10 minutes early.
• 2:44
  Cheryl: So, the sting is there, right?
• 2:46
  Cheryl: So, they had done it earlier.
• 2:48
  Cheryl: Two nights in a row been effective and then had to do it again.
• 2:52
  Cheryl: And then the next night she said okay here we are.
• 2:55
  Cheryl: You know, it's time to go to bed And then one of my granddaughters said, I don't like this game.
• 3:03
  Cheryl: And she said, Honey, what game?
• 3:06
  Cheryl: This game that we're doing.
• 3:09
  Cheryl: Y'all are saying it.
• 3:10
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 3:10
  Cheryl: What game?
• 3:11
  Cheryl: Like, if we got out of bed, then we have to go to bed.
• 3:15
  Cheryl: Bed early the night.
• 3:19
  Cheryl: Oh, so funny.
• 3:20
  Cheryl: Honey, that's not, not a game.
• 3:21
  Cheryl: This is not, this is not a game.
• 3:23
  Cheryl: You know, we're not changing the rules.
• 3:25
  Cheryl: Right?
• 3:25
  Cheryl: But isn't that interesting?
• 3:27
  Cheryl: That is so funny.
• 3:28
  Cheryl: She goes, oh, okay.
• 3:29
  Cheryl: God, that was kind of interesting.
• 3:30
  Cheryl: Now let's move on.
• 3:31
  Cheryl: And she, she
• 3:32
  Christie: was humoring the game idea for a little bit.
• 3:35
  Cheryl: So there are all kind of view points on consequences.
• 3:38
  Cheryl: Uhhuh So.
• 3:41
  Cheryl: Uh, what she isn't going to understand is what we're going to talk about, we talked last time about all the benefits there are with consequences.
• 3:47
  Cheryl: Okay?
• 3:47
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 3:48
  Cheryl: So, what, um, what are the reasons parents don't follow through?
• 3:53
  Cheryl: Why didn't we follow through?
• 3:54
  Cheryl: Why don't we use consequences?
• 3:56
  Cheryl: And then, what are the struggles?
• 3:57
  Cheryl: I
• 3:57
  Ellen: think, I think a lot of times.
• 3:59
  Ellen: It's because it's, we don't think through what we care about, number one, and you're bombarded from the time they're little with all these different decisions in your brain you have to make.
• 4:11
  Ellen: Can I let them do that?
• 4:12
  Ellen: Oh, maybe I shouldn't let them do that.
• 4:14
  Ellen: So sometimes taking a little bit of time to think.
• 4:17
  Ellen: This is a really important thing, and I don't want them touching the stove when they're two.
• 4:23
  Ellen: So we're going to make a consequence, but if they touch something else, it's not a big deal.
• 4:27
  Ellen: So you're kind of making some guidelines in your head, and then also kind of planning out a little bit what's appropriate.
• 4:34
  Ellen: With little children, it's not quite as hard, but as they get older, you have to kind of think through, what's the appropriate consequence at this moment for the action and I think especially by the time they get to junior high and above you really kind of need to settle in your mind, you know, what's the consequence if they come in really late, right, you know, what's the consequence if they didn't go to school or they went to the party or they climbed over the fence, you know, so that you're not stuck at the moment trying to figure it all out and it's just anger or maybe harsh words and you've kind of in your mind sort of settled I think that's
• 5:18
  Christie: really good.
• 5:19
  Christie: I think the, the thing that was most challenging for me was my own emotion.
• 5:23
  Christie: Yeah.
• 5:23
  Christie: Yeah.
• 5:24
  Christie: My emotions got in the way in the moment.
• 5:26
  Christie: I either didn't want to make my kids uncomfortable, I didn't want them to be mad at me, or I Didn't have the energy sometimes to, to determine what the consequence should be.
• 5:37
  Christie: And so thinking ahead, and of course the hard part about that is children can be very creative and you don't know what's coming at you the next day, but, um, yeah, I, I think that's really helpful, Ellen.
• 5:49
  Ellen: Well, you don't want it to be revenge because sometimes it's apparent, I am getting revenge.
• 5:57
  Ellen: That teenager for doing that five times.
• 5:59
  Ellen: Because
• 5:59
  Cheryl: last time when we.
• 6:01
  Cheryl: Uh, talked about what are consequences versus punitive.
• 6:04
  Cheryl: Right.
• 6:05
  Cheryl: That's it.
• 6:05
  Cheryl: Um, that, that is.
• 6:07
  Cheryl: Uh, what was it you said, Michelle?
• 6:09
  Cheryl: You were saying it's a, a learning opportunity?
• 6:11
  Cheryl: Yeah, it's just a teaching
• 6:12
  Danae: tool, you know, that is gonna benefit them in the long run for their future.
• 6:16
  Danae: And that
• 6:17
  Cheryl: we're linking cause and effect, that your conduct has consequences very different from just, uh, like you have to stay after school.
• 6:26
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 6:26
  laughter: Staying
• 6:26
  Cheryl: after school is a punitive, and it has nothing to do with what the actual infraction is.
• 6:34
  Cheryl: Mm hmm.
• 6:34
  Cheryl: And so that's why a consequence is so important because we're trying to do the deep teaching of your choices, your conduct have consequences or benefits.
• 6:44
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 6:45
  Danae: You know, Ellen, you were talking about clear expectations there for a little bit.
• 6:49
  Danae: And Cheryl, as you were describing the bedtime situation that actually happened to us a couple of nights ago.
• 6:54
  Danae: We just realized that, uh, It's, bedtime is getting out of hand.
• 6:58
  Danae: People are not staying in their beds and you know, sometimes you're in a situation where you don't realize that you don't have been taking advantage of the situation.
• 7:06
  Danae: And then you get to a point where you're like, Oh wait, we've let this go on too long.
• 7:11
  Danae: It is chaos.
• 7:12
  Danae: And so my husband, you know, got all the kids together and said, Here's the deal.
• 7:17
  Danae: This is not going to keep happening because your bedtime keeps getting pushed back.
• 7:22
  Danae: People aren't getting the right amount of sleep.
• 7:24
  Danae: You're disrespecting mommy and daddy because mommy and daddy have things to do in the evening.
• 7:28
  Danae: So here's what you're going to do.
• 7:30
  Danae: And he listed out what they were going to do that evening.
• 7:32
  Danae: You're going to stay in your own bed.
• 7:33
  Danae: You're going to stay in your room.
• 7:35
  Danae: You're not going to come out.
• 7:37
  Danae: And then, he walks out of the room 20 minutes later, everyone is in one person's bed and they're all playing.
• 7:45
  Danae: And he's like, okay, I'm not really sure what happened here.
• 7:47
  Christie: I was like, well,
• 7:50
  Danae: well, did you over explain?
• 7:52
  Danae: No, I was very specific.
• 7:53
  Danae: Okay.
• 7:54
  Danae: Um, so we were just trying to like clear up.
• 7:57
  Danae: What went wrong?
• 7:57
  Danae: And really, when it came down to it, they just, they just decided not to let you.
• 8:02
  Danae: So, then the consequence, and he, he had shared, if you get out of your bed, if you do these things.
• 8:08
  Danae: You will have a consequence the next day and sure enough One of my kids said so mom Do we get to watch that one one movie that we were looking forward to us like?
• 8:20
  Danae: I don't think so.
• 8:20
  Danae: What did daddy say?
• 8:21
  Danae: You know we had to like talk about it again, and they thought, oh maybe, yeah, maybe they'll forget about it.
• 8:29
  Danae: And they're so
• 8:31
  Ellen: creative sometimes, on how they twist what, you know, what you've told them, because I've had my kids, they didn't get out of bed, they did.
• 8:47
  Cheryl: So this is part of the reason that parents don't follow through with consequences because you're just tired and it takes so long and it takes so much energy.
• 8:57
  Cheryl: And actually, you know, when you look at what the experts say, they go as close in time as you can link them.
• 9:07
  Cheryl: It's much better to have it as immediate as possible.
• 9:10
  Cheryl: Of course, the younger they are, and some of yours are pretty young,, the younger they are, they don't.as easily And so they said the most effective consequences are ones that you can link closely.
• 9:20
  Cheryl: So like I was saying earlier about tomorrow night, those were close enough and they're old enough where they were feeling the burn.
• 9:28
  Cheryl: Right, right.
• 9:29
  Cheryl: Of course, they'd completely forgotten that they'd gotten out of bed.
• 9:32
  Cheryl: Like high school, they staying out late, they didn't come in time at home.
• 9:38
  Cheryl: Well, then you go, then you don't go to such and such weekend.
• 9:42
  Cheryl: They're of an age where, for one thing, they're suffering all week long with the burn when they lose it, but they can connect that.
• 9:52
  Cheryl: Can remember as my children got older, one said to me, you know, Mom, can't we kind of go back to like the little kid type consequences instead?
• 9:59
  Cheryl: You know, when they're right here, you know, like you, I, you can't play with the blocks for an hour because you threw, whatever.
• 10:06
  Cheryl: They're like, let's just
• 10:06
  Christie: get this over with.
• 10:07
  Christie: Let's get this over with, rather
• 10:09
  Cheryl: than the burn of, you know, you've lost this long term thing.
• 10:12
  Cheryl: Right.
• 10:13
  Cheryl: Well,
• 10:13
  Christie: that leads to another one of the struggles.
• 10:15
  Christie: It's beneficial to parents to do it quickly because I would forget.
• 10:20
  Christie: Oh, I forget.
• 10:21
  Christie: I would, you know, we went to the movie that weekend.
• 10:23
  Christie: I forgot.
• 10:24
  Christie: She wasn't supposed to be able to see it and now we're here.
• 10:27
  Christie: We are now.
• 10:27
  Christie: What do you do?
• 10:28
  Christie: And, um, keeping track of those things.
• 10:31
  Christie: Oh, my kids would rat on the other kid and say,
• 10:33
  Ellen: Oh, you forgot to give so and so her consequence.
• 10:39
  Ellen: She's the minutes keeper of the family.
• 10:41
  Ellen: And she'd bring it up.
• 10:42
  Ellen: On Thursday at 4 p.
• 10:43
  Ellen: m.
• 10:44
  Ellen: They kept track of who, because you got to keep your word.
• 10:48
  Ellen: Right.
• 10:48
  Ellen: That's a really important part that we sometimes forget as parents, that if you say, this is the consequence for doing this, if you don't keep your word, then your kids don't believe you.
• 10:59
  Ellen: Which
• 10:59
  Cheryl: may be why Sometimes we don't do it because we want the out.
• 11:03
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 11:03
  Cheryl: Not to do it.
• 11:05
  Cheryl: I hear like parents say, I can't be consistent.
• 11:09
  Cheryl: What can I do?
• 11:10
  Cheryl: What are some ways you would suggest maybe to help it be easier for the parents to be consistent with this?
• 11:15
  Cheryl: Don't have too
• 11:16
  Ellen: much stuff.
• 11:18
  Ellen: If you have too many rules, too many things, you can't keep track of it all.
• 11:23
  Ellen: Keep it down to really the basics.
• 11:25
  Christie: Right.
• 11:25
  Christie: And does
• 11:26
  Ellen: it fall under those categories?
• 11:27
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 11:27
  Ellen: And did they disobey?
• 11:29
  Ellen: Mm hmm.
• 11:29
  Ellen: What was it?
• 11:29
  Ellen: Picking your
• 11:30
  Christie: battles.
• 11:30
  Christie: Yeah, just, just
• 11:31
  Ellen: the, they come under these three headings and that's what's important.
• 11:35
  Ellen: Mm hmm.
• 11:35
  Ellen: So, okay, they just lied to me.
• 11:37
  Ellen: So that's got a consequence to it.
• 11:39
  Ellen: Mm hmm.
• 11:39
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 11:40
  Ellen: Okay.
• 11:40
  Ellen: Rather than everything.
• 11:41
  Christie: Trying to make is not so much about the lying, but about saying if we pounce on every battle, Yeah, because I
• 11:48
  Ellen: was just looking at categories and those things.
• 11:50
  Ellen: Those things come in these kind of categories.
• 11:52
  Ellen: It's hard to be consistent whenever you're And so, if you know in your mind, okay, this really does come under, they're just downright disobeying me, I asked them not to do that, and they went ahead and did that, and that has a consequence.
• 12:03
  Ellen: Getting out of bed.
• 12:04
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 12:05
  Cheryl: And then, and also I liked what you all did.
• 12:07
  Cheryl: You made, I mean, this is a perfect example, Michelle, Real time, real parenting.
• 12:13
  Cheryl: You saw the issue.
• 12:15
  Cheryl: You were clear on your expectations.
• 12:18
  Cheryl: What do we not understand about staying in our beds?
• 12:22
  Cheryl: You know, that's very clear.
• 12:24
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 12:24
  Cheryl: But see, it's a struggle.
• 12:26
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 12:26
  Cheryl: And if you're going to keep it up, you've got to have the emotional energy, like you're saying, to follow through with it.
• 12:31
  Ellen: And make sure we don't overburden ourselves with too many things Depending on the ages of our children of what we expect from them because I would do that and then I'd be like This is exhausting.
• 12:43
  Ellen: Fortunately.
• 12:44
  Ellen: My husband was kind enough.
• 12:45
  Ellen: He would go.
• 12:46
  Ellen: Oh, I don't think that's really a big deal Oh, okay.
• 12:49
  Ellen: You're you're good.
• 12:50
  Ellen: Okay, guys, you're not grounded anymore And that happened a lot because he would come home and he understood that I was in the middle of the fray and it was chaos, so it was easier just to ground everybody, you know, and go to your rooms and you're grounded for the day.
• 13:05
  Ellen: You can't go play with friends.
• 13:06
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 13:07
  Ellen: No, I would do that.
• 13:08
  Ellen: And then I'd be like, oh, it's quiet.
• 13:11
  Ellen: And then he would get home and everybody's sitting on their bed looking pathetic.
• 13:15
  Ellen: And then he'd go, I think they can't hear me.
• 13:17
  Ellen: They're probably fine.
• 13:18
  Ellen: Really, you know, and then I would say, Hey, your dad thinks that I over did, you know, this and, and I think that he's right.
• 13:26
  Ellen: And I'll try to be better and, uh, what I consider a consequence.
• 13:29
  Ellen: Oh, that's good.
• 13:30
  Ellen: That's very humble of you to say that to them.
• 13:32
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 13:32
  Ellen: Well, I had to be.
• 13:34
  Ellen: I always did really broad things, and I'm like, Oh, yeah, that was a little much.
• 13:39
  Ellen: Well, I
• 13:40
  Christie: think you make a good point about overwhelming yourself.
• 13:42
  Christie: Yeah.
• 13:43
  Christie: Because I think that, um, it's easy to see every single wrongdoing our kids do.
• 13:49
  Christie: I know I was guilty of this catastrophic thinking of, Oh, now they're going to be in prison for fraud because they lied about one little thing.
• 13:58
  Christie: And so.
• 13:59
  Christie: I think one thing that might be helpful with consistency is looking at each child's tendencies and giving consequences for the bigger things in their life.
• 14:10
  Christie: You know, if they have a chronic habit of, you know, getting out of bed or, or whatever their thing might be.
• 14:17
  Christie: But then the things that are one off ordeal, like we had one that at, I think she was maybe She had a friend over for the night and they snuck out at like 11 o'clock and I mean they drove around the block Yeah, yeah, but this was a kid that that was very uncharacteristic It wasn't like she was going sneaking into weird places And so we gave it a grace pass and we just said hey, you know, you know permission to go places It's a night and and it never happened again.
• 14:48
  Christie: I could have overwhelmed myself with the fact that Getting bogged down on that one and making it a 10 and like, oh my gosh
• 14:53
  Ellen: forever Yeah, she's gonna be sneaking out of that going to lead to or you always
• 14:59
  Cheryl: have to have a consequence or a correction Yeah, we did correcting but that doesn't always have to be a consequence.
• 15:06
  Cheryl: I love the grace of that Yeah that we can give us grace and them grace.
• 15:11
  Christie: Yeah, And when they're little too, you know, if they're, they're doing something when they're little that is just, you know, they're tired or they're hungry, let, let it go for this one time.
• 15:20
  Christie: Well, I understand why you ate
• 15:21
  Ellen: those four cookies.
• 15:22
  Ellen: Because I don't eat those four cookies.
• 15:25
  Ellen: No, I do.
• 15:26
  Ellen: Because I've said that to my kids.
• 15:27
  Ellen: I understand.
• 15:28
  Ellen: I know those are really good or I know it was really fun to stay out later or I know it was really fun to do this thing, but
• 15:35
  Christie: we
• 15:35
  Ellen: have to have trust.
• 15:36
  Christie: Right.
• 15:37
  Christie: yeah.
• 15:38
  Cheryl: And what you're talking about is it's a process.
• 15:41
  Cheryl: And I'm afraid so much in parenting, particularly where we're in the fray of it, we need to fix this.
• 15:47
  Cheryl: This is important.
• 15:48
  Cheryl: Like getting to bed, it is important in the big picture, in the small picture, but it's a process.
• 15:55
  Cheryl: And I would say, One of the reasons I didn't always follow through is I was expecting immediate change.
• 16:01
  Cheryl: Yes, you know that.
• 16:03
  Cheryl: Oh, you're right I have to go to bed 10 minutes early.
• 16:06
  Cheryl: That's the last time I'll ever what we're doing we're in here for the long haul the big picture of what you're talking about So we want relationship.
• 16:15
  Cheryl: We want grace But we also want the consistency because with consequences, what we're trying to do is say, remember, your choices, your conduct have, results and we want them to connect that.
• 16:27
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 16:28
  Cheryl: So as they get older, they will be adults that understand that.
• 16:31
  Christie: That's really good about having appropriate expectations and patience with the process because.
• 16:36
  Christie: Yeah.
• 16:37
  Christie: I know.
• 16:38
  Christie: For me, like, that's sometimes why I would give up is I thought this isn't doing any good anyway.
• 16:42
  Christie: Why fight the fight and, you know, make them upset with me if it's not even doing anything.
• 16:48
  Christie: But if I would trust that in time with repetition and consistency, it, it would probably have made more of an effort.
• 16:55
  Cheryl: Well, one of the things that helped me to be more consistent is kind of having phrases that I would use.
• 17:02
  Cheryl: There are two phrases I would do, and we've talked about it before, but they help me so much and I got them from other people.
• 17:07
  Cheryl: One, is you deal with it when it's the issue and you talk about when it isn't.
• 17:12
  laughter: Yeah.
• 17:12
  Cheryl: So for example, going to bed or whatever it is.
• 17:16
  Cheryl: So we'd talk about it when it wasn't the issue early in the day So nobody's emotions are up and all that sort of stuff.
• 17:22
  Cheryl: And saying, okay, now remember when we go to bed tonight, what are we supposed to do?
• 17:26
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 17:26
  Cheryl: And then like, if you, if you do it, then you're going to have to go to bed 10 minutes early tomorrow night or whatever it is.
• 17:31
  Cheryl: But talk about what wasn't the issue.
• 17:33
  Cheryl: so that really helped me, so that I've already talked about it, so we go, remember, what is the issue?
• 17:38
  Cheryl: Oh, whatever did it, they already knew what the situation is.
• 17:42
  Cheryl: And then the other was a phrase that I said, with freedom and privilege come responsibility.
• 17:48
  Cheryl: So I would say it in a positive spin, you know, wow.
• 17:53
  Cheryl: You do your responsibilities, you get freedom and privilege I want to give you more freedom and privilege rather than I'm a warden handing out all the consequences.
• 18:02
  Cheryl: And then when we talk about it and it's not the hot issue, I can say, and that's why I have consequences because I want you to have more freedom and privilege because I want you to have it in your adult life.
• 18:14
  Cheryl: Right.
• 18:15
  Cheryl: So just having phrases for me, that was effective.
• 18:18
  Ellen: And you know, the consequences can be good.
• 18:20
  Ellen: You can say, you have been so cooperative about your bedtime all week long.
• 18:25
  Ellen: Your privilege is you get to stay up an extra 15 minutes.
• 18:28
  Ellen: Right.
• 18:29
  Ellen: So reinforce that.
• 18:31
  Ellen: When they've done something well for a while.
• 18:33
  Ellen: Because that's, we need that just as much as we need the negative consequences to help us from not wanting to do the wrong thing.
• 18:40
  Ellen: That's something I wish I
• 18:41
  Christie: would've been more mindful about, rather than dangling a carrot out there of if you do this then you get this.
• 18:47
  Christie: But instead creating a habit and, and being known by my kids for, for the spontaneous rewards like that like that I think would have been more helpful
• 18:57
  Danae: or even just saying, thank you for obeying right away to notice you, did that appreciate that,
• 19:04
  Ellen: but you give them a treat every once in a while
• 19:06
  Christie: well, and I love like you're saying, talk about it in the positive because The discipline is still a positive, you know, it doesn't feel good at the time, but we can talk to our kids about, you know, maybe when it's not in the moment and say, Hey, I really hate that I had to, you know, give you that consequence, but I hope you can see that it's because I love you and I want you to see that.
• 19:29
  Christie: I want you to succeed in this area.
• 19:30
  Christie: I want you to learn and grow and, and that's my intention and, you know, they may not embrace it right away.
• 19:36
  Christie: I'd be like, Oh yes, mommy, thank you so much for implementing all those consequences.
• 19:40
  Cheryl: But I love the honesty of the relationship because when it's not the issue, that's why I love that.
• 19:45
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 19:46
  Cheryl: We talk about it and say, I don't want to have to tell you no.
• 19:50
  laughter: I
• 19:50
  Cheryl: want you to have freedom and privilege.
• 19:53
  Cheryl: But I love you so much that I want to hold you responsible.
• 19:56
  Christie: Yeah, instead of being the bad guy and swooping in and
• 20:01
  Ellen: And then when you're an adult, you go to bed whether you want to or not.
• 20:06
  Ellen: Because you're supposed to go to bed.
• 20:08
  Ellen: But you
• 20:08
  Christie: also eat the ice cream whether anybody says I can or not.
• 20:11
  Christie: But
• 20:11
  Ellen: now you can lay in bed with your iPad.
• 20:15
  Ellen: But you're in bed and you've obeyed the rules your mother
• 20:17
  Cheryl: laid down for you.
• 20:19
  Cheryl: And it's interesting because you're talking about occasionally give them something they didn't expect, a positive reinforcement.
• 20:26
  Cheryl: Actually scientists say the strongest reinforcement is the one that's unexpected because if every time they don't clear their plate and they see it every time, we need consistency.
• 20:41
  Cheryl: But that little occasional positive thing is really, really strong.
• 20:45
  Cheryl: Because they don't know when to expect it.
• 20:46
  Cheryl: Yeah, well
• 20:46
  Christie: that's the slot machine theory.
• 20:48
  Christie: That's how addiction happens.
• 20:50
  Christie: Yes.
• 20:51
  Christie: Slot machine parenting.
• 20:52
  Christie: There's a fair possibility I get chocolate out of this.
• 20:55
  Christie: Yes.
• 20:56
  Christie: That's good.
• 20:57
  Danae: Okay, so this morning I'll have to share the story with you because I'm still trying to figure out if I need to give more of a consequence so My kids eat vitamins in the morning and they have the chewable ones I have one child that were absolutely refuses to eat them The chewable vitamins, and they're at a point where they can swallow their own pills.
• 21:19
  Danae: So they have different ones.
• 21:20
  Danae: Well, one of my kids has realized that the other kid does not like the chewables, doesn't like the smell of it, doesn't like to be around it.
• 21:28
  Danae: So this child likes to sit by the child who doesn't like the vitamins and has figured out like, he's figured out like, Oh, okay, let's, let's see what can kind of push the buttons here.
• 21:39
  Danae: Uh huh.
• 21:40
  Danae: Oh my goodness.
• 21:40
  Danae: So this morning, um, So, one child disappeared and we were eating our breakfast and having our vitamins and stuff.
• 21:49
  Danae: And, and then one of my other kids disappeared.
• 21:52
  Danae: I was thinking, okay, they're going to the bathroom, you know, doing something, whatever.
• 21:55
  Danae: And then one kid comes back and says, Mom, so and so put something on the potty lid in the bathroom.
• 22:02
  Danae: Oh, So I go back there and on the seat of the potty are the vitamins.
• 22:09
  Danae: Shaped in a happy face, because that child knew that the one who doesn't like vitamins is going to go to the bathroom next and is going to see the
• 22:18
  Christie: vitamins.
• 22:19
  Christie: Oh my goodness.
• 22:20
  Christie: I'm
• 22:20
  Danae: like, what do I do about this?
• 22:23
  Danae: Michelle, we couldn't make this up, could we?
• 22:26
  Danae: You cannot prepare for things like this.
• 22:28
  Danae: So then I'm at a point where this is hilarious.
• 22:31
  Danae: But I'm going to have to figure out what to do because obviously this child cannot be putting vitamins on the potty.
• 22:38
  Ellen: But I love that story because that's one of those where you'd go, that was really funny, but please don't do that again because, you know, because it was funny, clever and well thought through.
• 22:48
  Ellen: And I
• 22:48
  Danae: mean, they saw me chuckle.
• 22:50
  Danae: They saw me laugh at this.
• 22:51
  Danae: But you know, it is, it is, but they're trying to bother
• 22:54
  Cheryl: the other one.
• 22:55
  Cheryl: Right.
• 22:56
  Cheryl: That's the real issue.
• 22:57
  Cheryl: It's not the, no, it's
• 22:58
  Danae: You know, multiple layers.
• 23:00
  Danae: I would give them grace
• 23:02
  Cheryl: for their creativity.
• 23:04
  laughter: I guess who
• 23:05
  Cheryl: would have been the one on, you know, Michelle, I have compassion for you.
• 23:11
  Cheryl: That is one of the realist stories of something that doesn't have huge consequences, but see,
• 23:19
  Danae: But it matters.
• 23:20
  Danae: I am proud of the way I responded.
• 23:22
  Danae: Oh, tell us because so I had the, you know, the culprit.
• 23:26
  Danae: Okay, I was like, Okay, you come here, we're gonna have to have a conversation.
• 23:30
  Danae: And I said, Now, what's the rule about our vitamins?
• 23:33
  Danae: Where do they stay?
• 23:35
  Danae: Because they've obviously ventured around the house and gone outside or wherever in someone's pockets.
• 23:41
  Danae: Well, that person knew they need to stay in the kitchen.
• 23:43
  Danae: Right.
• 23:44
  Danae: Did you honor mommy and daddy's rule about the vitamins?
• 23:47
  Danae: No Um, okay.
• 23:49
  Danae: Now let's move on to the next thing.
• 23:51
  Danae: Were you honoring your sibling?
• 23:54
  Danae: I would, you know, say their name, but I'm not going to say their name.
• 23:56
  Danae: Were you honoring this person this morning when you took the vitamins to the bathroom?
• 24:00
  Danae: No.
• 24:01
  Danae: Okay.
• 24:02
  Danae: Okay.
• 24:02
  Danae: So.
• 24:03
  Danae: Now that that said, what do you think we need to do about it now?
• 24:07
  Danae: And, you know, he sat there and thought, he said, I think I need a consequence.
• 24:12
  Danae: It's like, okay, you're right.
• 24:13
  Danae: So I think right now you need to go sit out.
• 24:16
  Danae: I'm gonna have you sit out for a little bit.
• 24:18
  Danae: I, Uh, I felt like I, I did a good job, like talking about how it was not honoring to us.
• 24:24
  Danae: That's good.
• 24:25
  Danae: It was not honoring to your sibling, you know, you weren't following the rules, but I, I'm not quite sure if my consequence for sitting out, like he sat out and then, you I feel like, you know, you need to owe me for, I had to throw the vitamins.
• 24:39
  Danae: Maybe you need to, like, pay me a dollar
• 24:42
  Cheryl: a vitamin.
• 24:42
  Cheryl: I don't know, what do you guys think?
• 24:44
  Cheryl: You know, actually, I think that's plenty.
• 24:47
  Cheryl: Let him eat all the vitamins.
• 24:48
  Cheryl: No,
• 24:51
  Ellen: if you just, just say, okay, now this is your vitamin stack.
• 24:55
  Ellen: And only make him eat one, one
• 24:59
  Cheryl: time.
• 24:59
  Cheryl: But, you know, thinking about it, that's what you want them to do.
• 25:04
  Cheryl: You know, like we talk about consequences because they're a teaching tool.
• 25:07
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 25:07
  Cheryl: And consequences aren't there, like, if you rob from the store, it's four years in jail.
• 25:14
  Cheryl: We don't want to treat it like that.
• 25:16
  Cheryl: it's not a hard cemented thing.
• 25:19
  Cheryl: Instead, we're trying to get this connection between you make your choices, you make your And your choices have results and we want to connect the dots on that, cause and effect.
• 25:28
  Cheryl: Right.
• 25:28
  Cheryl: Not punitively.
• 25:30
  Cheryl: Right.
• 25:30
  Cheryl: And so I like the fact that it was a great conversation.
• 25:34
  Cheryl: One of the things I might have done if I'd thought about it is give them a few minutes to think about it and say, and then when we, when your few minutes is over, I want you to talk to me about why you were sitting there.
• 25:48
  Cheryl: Because a lot of times little kids are.
• 25:51
  Cheryl: You sit for a while and you forget.
• 25:53
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 25:53
  Cheryl: Why you sitting while, which is why they kind of need to be short.
• 25:57
  Cheryl: Mm-Hmm.
• 25:57
  Cheryl: And then
• 25:58
  Danae: I do, do that.
• 25:58
  Danae: That's excellent.
• 25:59
  Danae: But not every time.
• 26:00
  Danae: I think it's not, I'm not sure if I did that this time.
• 26:02
  Cheryl: See, I I don't think it's too bad to say.
• 26:04
  Cheryl: What was it?
• 26:04
  Cheryl: He goes, well, you know, I did touch and, and then you can laugh.
• 26:07
  Cheryl: I like Ellen's thing.
• 26:08
  Cheryl: Let's laugh about it.
• 26:09
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 26:09
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 26:10
  Cheryl: That was funny.
• 26:10
  Cheryl: Except I, but what you did.
• 26:13
  Cheryl: Isn't so fun.
• 26:14
  Cheryl: And let them pick their own
• 26:15
  Ellen: consequences.
• 26:16
  Ellen: I like that too.
• 26:17
  Ellen: I let my kids a lot of time, well, what do you, you know, you admitted you were wrong, so what do you need to make amends for that?
• 26:22
  Ellen: Right.
• 26:23
  Ellen: How do you need to fix that?
• 26:24
  Ellen: Well, yeah, because
• 26:25
  Christie: he already determined on his own that he needed a consequence.
• 26:29
  Christie: Right.
• 26:29
  Christie: Yeah.
• 26:29
  Christie: And I think that's a That's the goal anyway, is for them to take action and make, make things right that they've done wrong.
• 26:35
  Christie: That's
• 26:36
  Cheryl: you want to do.
• 26:37
  Cheryl: That's connecting the dots between their choices and the effect of it.
• 26:41
  Cheryl: And you can give
• 26:42
  Ellen: them some hints like, okay, you need to go apologize and then maybe you need to make her bed for three days.
• 26:47
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 26:47
  Ellen: Or yeah, just ask them, Hey, what
• 26:49
  Christie: do you think you can do to
• 26:50
  Ellen: show
• 26:51
  Christie: the sibling how you really feel about them?
• 26:54
  Christie: Because I know you don't want to hurt their heart.
• 26:56
  Christie: Mm hmm.
• 26:56
  Christie: But just.
• 26:57
  Cheryl: Tiny, not really big.
• 26:59
  Cheryl: Just a small thing.
• 26:59
  Cheryl: That's good.
• 27:00
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 27:00
  Cheryl: And could, we have sat here for hours trying to come up with vitamins from the toilet.
• 27:07
  Cheryl: Oh gosh.
• 27:08
  Cheryl: That was great.
• 27:08
  Cheryl: I have many more of those, believe me.
• 27:11
  Cheryl: Nothing like real life.
• 27:12
  Cheryl: Uh huh.
• 27:12
  Cheryl: Uh
• 27:13
  laughter: huh.
• 27:13
  Cheryl: All right.
• 27:14
  Cheryl: So, uh, we've got to wrap this up.
• 27:16
  Christie: Well, I, I think one of the things since I've confessed here that this was a horrible area of my parenting is if you're out there thinking the same and you can relate, A, join my support group with me, or B, I had so many times where I would come to a parenting night or hear something or listen to a podcast and, and, you know, Have to go and apologize to my kids and say, Hey, I've been getting this wrong.
• 27:44
  Christie: And, you know, of course they weren't delighted to hear that now mommy's going to be consistent with bedtime, but Just, in humility, go, and I think you were talking about this, Ellen, of saying, I, I've really been off on this, and I've been loving you well in this area, and now I'm gonna have to be more consistent because that's the best way to love you, and we're, you know, we're gonna have to implement consequences for these actions that have gotten out of hand, like you were saying, Michelle.
• 28:05
  Christie: Mm hmm.
• 28:06
  Christie: Mm hmm.
• 28:06
  Christie: And I, I just think there's always a chance for a turnaround.
• 28:10
  Ellen: And that lays the groundwork, especially through the, the teen years where you really need to have some good communication and I've learned to trust you because you're willing to say I was wrong.
• 28:21
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 28:22
  Ellen: Wow.
• 28:22
  Cheryl: And you mean the child says, thinks, I've learned to trust you.
• 28:26
  Cheryl: Right.
• 28:26
  Cheryl: Because mom and dad will say they're wrong and, oh,
• 28:29
  Ellen: that was, sorry, I overreacted.
• 28:31
  Ellen: Modeling
• 28:32
  Christie: humility.
• 28:32
  Christie: Yeah.
• 28:33
  Cheryl: I think that's better than any connecting of consequences we could ever do, is to live this kind of character out in front of our children.
• 28:40
  Cheryl: Right.
• 28:40
  Cheryl: I love that.
• 28:41
  Cheryl: Let's hear it for inconsistency.
• 28:43
  Cheryl: More chances to apologize.
• 28:47
  Cheryl: Hey, thank y'all so much and Michelle, thank you for coming in.
• 28:51
  Cheryl: Always a delight to have you here.
• 28:52
  Cheryl: And we look forward to hearing about your next vitamin story.
• 28:58
  Cheryl: Hey, parents, remember, hang in there, keep loving, keep persevering because it's worth it.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: As we wrap up today, I hope this conversation has given you fresh ways to think about using consequences.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Not as a punishment, but as a powerful teaching tool.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: One thought that stayed with me is, our goal isn't perfection, but progress.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: Each small lesson, each gentle nudge adds up.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: It's not easy.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Following through can feel so tiring.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: But remember, it's part of your long game.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: This week, take a moment to notice one small area where you can let a natural or logical consequence do the teaching.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's as simple as letting a missed homework assignment speak for itself.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Or letting your child face the results of not getting up with their alarm.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: And don't forget to reflect how you are modeling this principle in your own life.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Are there areas where you can show your kids that making mistakes Let And learning from them is part of being human.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: Let us know how it goes.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: You can reach us at contact at theparentingpodcast.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: com or join the conversation on social media.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: You're teaching your kids how to navigate life one choice at a time.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Keep going.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: It matters more than you realize.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: music