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Interview With Sarah's Weeping Pearl · The Horsehuman Connection Matrix

• 0:03
  This is the Horse Human Connection.
• 0:06
  A captivating podcast where we extend into the world of equine assisted learning.
• 0:11
  Horse Training.
• 0:12
  and gentleness in working with these magnificent creatures.
• 0:18
  Captivating stories from the leading professionals and ordinary people alike unravel novel ideas in being with horses.
• 0:26
  The horse human connection is an idea, a place, and a voice.
• 0:32
  The idea is to support the quiet revolution and recognize the intelligence and true nature of the horse.
• 0:40
  The place is a destination farm near the Umpqua Forest and River that slows down visitors and patrons enough to experience the shift.
• 0:49
  The Voice is this podcast.
• 0:52
  Welcome to today's episode.
• 1:04
  Hi, I'm is she with the horse human connection matrix podcast.
• 1:09
  Today I have with me, Sarah, who I have been wanting to interview.
• 1:15
  About something that happened in her life and this isn't really related to horses.
• 1:19
  It's just related to life.
• 1:22
  And Sarah and I have known each other for a good long time.
• 1:27
  And about three years ago.
• 1:29
  She informed me that she'd been diagnosed with cancer.
• 1:34
  And this was following me not hearing from her very much.
• 1:38
  I just think she is one of the bravest people that I know and has one of the strongest minds.
• 1:44
  In her ability to create her world with her thinking.
• 1:49
  I'm going to jump in and ask her some questions about this so that she has the opportunity to elaborate some of the things that she's told me.
• 1:56
  And I'm sure I'll hear some new stuff today, too.
• 2:00
  Welcome Sarah.
• 2:01
  Hi, she it's always a treat to be together.
• 2:05
  It is.
• 2:06
  So.
• 2:08
  I want to go all the way back to when we first met.
• 2:12
  And one of the things that you had been doing.
• 2:15
  Was living in Peru six months out of the year.
• 2:19
  And I remember you telling me the story of.
• 2:23
  Closing your eyes and pointing to a place on the map of Peru, of where you would go.
• 2:28
  And I remember.
• 2:30
  Asking you why, why you wanted to inundate yourself into a community.
• 2:35
  So far away and like a third world country.
• 2:38
  And correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember your answer going something like this.
• 2:44
  I was a nurse.
• 2:45
  This is you talking.
• 2:46
  I was a nurse and I've seen what Western medicine can do.
• 2:50
  And I never want to be in a position where I'm stuck in a hospital and forced to have that kind of treatment.
• 2:58
  Okay.
• 2:59
  And you were plan was actually, if you were going to grow old, to grow old in a community in Peru where you knew that would not happen.
• 3:09
  That's what I remember is that, is that pretty accurate?
• 3:12
  It's accurate in a number of ways.
• 3:15
  First of all, I went there.
• 3:20
  Definitely with the intention of.
• 3:23
  Search.
• 3:26
  For something that was.
• 3:29
  Wisdom that came out of.
• 3:33
  Nature and the natural world.
• 3:35
  And.
• 3:37
  To meet people too.
• 3:38
  Meet people and places.
• 3:41
  Where that kind of exchange was still vibrant and alive.
• 3:46
  And hopefully Be able to move closer to that.
• 3:53
  Kind of knowledge.
• 3:55
  Then I could find anywhere in this country.
• 4:00
  So your intention was much broader than the way it was the next one.
• 4:04
  That I could have ingested.
• 4:07
  That's that's the broadest understanding of my intention.
• 4:12
  My other intention related to the fact that as we've talked about many times in my involvement with shamonic ideas and education, For myself and the pursuit of that in the states.
• 4:28
  In fact, what.
• 4:30
  Identified Peru is where I wanted to go was I went to here's some music that was.
• 4:37
  In concert in Portland, Oregon.
• 4:39
  From a man who was raising funds for people, for your people in Peru, for children in the Highlands.
• 4:47
  For schools.
• 4:49
  And I had a.
• 4:52
  Kind of vision experience.
• 4:55
  That was intentionally built into the concert.
• 4:58
  For people to journey through.
• 5:02
  To be a platform for journeying.
• 5:04
  So these are all things that attracted you to you to Peru.
• 5:07
  Yes.
• 5:08
  And so let's fast forward 10 years.
• 5:10
  About 10 years, right?
• 5:12
  Yeah.
• 5:12
  And And you know that there is a mass in your breast.
• 5:18
  Yes.
• 5:19
  And you don't tell anybody.
• 5:22
  And you don't go to the doctor.
• 5:24
  Correct.
• 5:26
  What was going through your head?
• 5:28
  I'm just not me.
• 5:29
  Admonishing.
• 5:30
  You.
• 5:30
  But that's that's me like, like.
• 5:33
  Imagining what listeners might say, well, what was going through my head, especially with my, my background as a nurse.
• 5:40
  That's when.
• 5:43
  Everything you said in the introduction.
• 5:45
  Comes in.
• 5:47
  And.
• 5:50
  Plus my time in Peru of, of getting a foothold or some sense.
• 5:57
  Of connection with the power of.
• 6:01
  Plant.
• 6:02
  Medicine.
• 6:03
  Okay.
• 6:04
  Because as it turns out over the last few years, I've made use of a great deal of plant medicine.
• 6:12
  With a.
• 6:13
  A full trust in it and not a trust to cure.
• 6:17
  Necessarily.
• 6:21
  But To support life support life.
• 6:24
  Yeah, exactly.
• 6:26
  And to support my own.
• 6:28
  My own calibration to dealing with the kind of issues that have come up in.
• 6:35
  Trajectory that I've chosen, which is not to have interventions occur through.
• 6:41
  Modern medicine.
• 6:43
  Okay.
• 6:44
  And do you know anything?
• 6:46
  I mean, you purposely didn't research a lot of stuff.
• 6:48
  You purposely didn't look at a lot of things.
• 6:51
  But you did choose one course of.
• 6:55
  Another thing to do, working with a shaman from Hawaii, is that correct?
• 7:00
  Yes.
• 7:01
  And can you tell us a little bit about what regime that that was and what the results have been?
• 7:07
  The woman that is, she just mentioned Also head.
• 7:11
  Training in modern medicine.
• 7:15
  And pharmacology and practices for healing from that direction, as well as her own.
• 7:24
  Unconventional trainings.
• 7:26
  So.
• 7:27
  When I first met her.
• 7:29
  She did what I would call a healers version of an MRI scan.
• 7:36
  And interviewed me with specific questions.
• 7:41
  That she wanted to know about who I was, how I worked.
• 7:46
  How I process things and how I communicated.
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  Very specific questions.
• 7:52
  Some of them, you know, kind of threw me like, like, What's your relationship with your father, with your mother, with your children?
• 8:01
  Where the ha and, and through my answers, should she could feel.
• 8:07
  And have some knowledge of what the hotspots were, where I wasn't being honest.
• 8:13
  And I remember her interrupting me at some point because I, I can speak clearly.
• 8:20
  And I wasn't really getting to the bottom of it.
• 8:23
  And she said, she said, come on, start talking with that bullshit.
• 8:29
  She knew how to get you out of the story and to the heart of the matter.
• 8:33
  Yes.
• 8:34
  And then the second part of the interview was Pretty amazing and transformative.
• 8:40
  I was astounded.
• 8:41
  She asked me to repeat after her.
• 8:45
  Specific identified.
• 8:49
  Hotspots that she had flagged and felt were impeding.
• 8:54
  The health of my spiritual system.
• 8:57
  And when she had you repeat after her, was it in a positive affirmation or was it simply a reflection of what you had said or condensing or synopsis of it.
• 9:08
  It was actually, she was, she was coaching me.
• 9:13
  Telling me what to say.
• 9:15
  To individual people that she had asked me about.
• 9:20
  That.
• 9:21
  Where people that were created that I had blockages with.
• 9:26
  And since they were a part of my life, So she was clearing, she was clearing she, she was clearing misunderstandings, if you will, with, with people from your life that had created blockages by having you.
• 9:39
  Imagine that you were speaking to these people.
• 9:42
  Correct.
• 9:43
  And through.
• 9:43
  Speaking to them.
• 9:47
  I not only released My entrenched kind of negative.
• 9:54
  Th my entrenched attitudes that were were negative and that I was suffering, knowing that I had these feelings in me.
• 10:04
  So that by her coaching me on what to say.
• 10:11
  About those was a tremendous help to.
• 10:15
  Purging them.
• 10:18
  Because of the second half of the second half of the interview.
• 10:24
  Was not only speaking to those people.
• 10:27
  Coached queued by the.
• 10:30
  The healer.
• 10:32
  But.
• 10:35
  And incredible.
• 10:37
  Transforming process of then being coached with words that.
• 10:45
  Had to do with concepts like forgiveness.
• 10:49
  Well, wishing.
• 10:51
  Compassion.
• 10:53
  Understanding of, of how that individual, for example, Was who they were.
• 11:01
  So I'm going to just take a stab at something here.
• 11:04
  Okay.
• 11:04
  You.
• 11:04
  You also have a background in psychology.
• 11:06
  Yeah.
• 11:07
  And I I've done, I've done my sheriff therapy.
• 11:09
  I'm still doing some therapy.
• 11:11
  And so one way I'm.
• 11:14
  I'm making sense of what you say.
• 11:16
  And likening it to what might happen in a therapist's office is you're examining these patterns.
• 11:22
  You're examining these possible conflicts and blockages affect you and your psyche and your ability to be happy and have joy.
• 11:30
  But the difference is.
• 11:32
  Instead of somebody leading you through on your own time and waiting for you to be present, be willing, make the connections.
• 11:41
  She has the ability to be.
• 11:44
  Like a psychic empath and cut right to the heart of the matter feed you the words have you repeat after her, put them out into the universe, clear the beliefs, clear the energy and.
• 11:57
  And the blockages and basically take a huge shortcut.
• 12:03
  That's a good summation.
• 12:05
  Because it was extraordinarily powerful.
• 12:08
  And in the second half of the, the intake, the interview with her, where she was feeding me this.
• 12:15
  I could.
• 12:16
  I almost saw it visually.
• 12:18
  That after the purging.
• 12:21
  And the no bullshit, you know, messages that she asked me to speak out loud to those people.
• 12:28
  Was there an emotional purging on your part?
• 12:30
  Was this an emotional well nodding?
• 12:32
  For you now.
• 12:33
  At that point, but when she switched to the affirmative side, okay.
• 12:39
  The forgiveness.
• 12:40
  The heart opening heart.
• 12:41
  Opening the heart and all of that.
• 12:43
  W I felt in saw.
• 12:47
  This bridge in construction.
• 12:50
  That the M.
• 12:52
  The more steps I took on it.
• 12:56
  Just shed.
• 12:58
  And transformed.
• 13:01
  The entire, all the things that were being said, And I mean, Imagine someone, you know, full of mud and junk, stuck to them and darkness and.
• 13:16
  In their clothing, getting on a bridge and shedding net clothing.
• 13:20
  And by the time they got to the other side of the bridge, they were free of it.
• 13:24
  Right.
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  Naked and shiny.
• 13:25
  Yes.
• 13:28
  clean.
• 13:29
  And.
• 13:30
  It was at that point that It was in the transition of walking across that bridge, going across that bridge.
• 13:38
  That a lot of the emotions came out and I just weeped.
• 13:44
  Sounds very cathartic.
• 13:45
  It was.
• 13:46
  Yeah.
• 13:46
  Wow.
• 13:47
  So then what, what happened physically?
• 13:50
  The grapes.
• 13:52
  You were eating great.
• 13:54
  Nothing but crepes.
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  And I'm like, how can she be doing that?
• 13:56
  They're so sweet.
• 13:58
  Well, a month later, this person was in the state.
• 14:04
  And came to S to stay at my home for a week.
• 14:09
  And that's when I, she said, okay, It's time for a fast are you game?
• 14:16
  And I of course said, sure.
• 14:18
  I'm game.
• 14:20
  And that's when she put me on the.
• 14:23
  The fasting diet for at least.
• 14:27
  Two weeks was the, the goal.
• 14:30
  What was the timeframe between you doing this interview and you starting the fast.
• 14:35
  About a month.
• 14:36
  Okay.
• 14:36
  About a month.
• 14:37
  So about a month to process?
• 14:39
  Yeah.
• 14:39
  Okay.
• 14:40
  And during that month.
• 14:42
  We would have.
• 14:43
  Calls.
• 14:46
  and sessions.
• 14:48
  And check-ins okay.
• 14:50
  And I can't remember clearly in time.
• 14:56
  If during this period, you're also preparing to die.
• 14:59
  I remember talking to you at one point and you said I'm not sick.
• 15:02
  I don't want to be treated like I'm sick.
• 15:04
  I'm dying.
• 15:07
  actually.
• 15:08
  I lifted that from a handwritten note.
• 15:12
  In the, in the first page of a book.
• 15:15
  That I had read because I spent those two.
• 15:19
  You know, good year and a half of absolute silence without talking to anybody.
• 15:25
  Reading, reading, reading, reading, reading.
• 15:29
  So that was your searching period.
• 15:32
  And like what amazed me so much.
• 15:35
  And that was, that was the phrase that was inside.
• 15:38
  One of the used books that I bought.
• 15:40
  Okay.
• 15:42
  Yeah, I thought that.
• 15:43
  And I felt like a gift.
• 15:45
  It had landed.
• 15:46
  My lab from the previous reader.
• 15:48
  Yeah.
• 15:49
  Yeah.
• 15:50
  Yeah.
• 15:50
  Interesting.
• 15:51
  So I don't remember experiencing you in any kind of self-pity.
• 15:58
  About any of this?
• 15:59
  Did you avoid that or just not?
• 16:02
  And if so, how, or did you just not talk about it?
• 16:06
  Can you give me some lead lines for what self-pity would sound like?
• 16:11
  Why did this happen to me?
• 16:12
  I I'm.
• 16:13
  So I'm I had things I was still going to do.
• 16:17
  I just like poor me.
• 16:20
  You know, people are not going to care.
• 16:22
  People are not going to be able to take care of me.
• 16:25
  Just kind of a desperate, negative.
• 16:27
  Okay.
• 16:28
  A cycle that I think.
• 16:29
  I imagine a lot of people with a diagnosis.
• 16:33
  Or even the idea of a diagnosis could spiral down easily.
• 16:38
  Yeah.
• 16:39
  Okay.
• 16:40
  Well I did not.
• 16:43
  Experience.
• 16:45
  Most of those words.
• 16:48
  That you said I didn't rant in real, you know, how could.
• 16:52
  If there's a God, why would I, you know, that's kind of, I didn't do that.
• 16:57
  It was just kind of an immediate acceptance.
• 17:00
  I felt.
• 17:03
  The ways that it shocked me.
• 17:07
  Of course shock has involved.
• 17:09
  Huh.
• 17:09
  And a cycle of, of grief.
• 17:13
  And loss.
• 17:14
  And, and I'm familiar with that from medicine wheel studies.
• 17:18
  And so that was like a template.
• 17:21
  To me.
• 17:24
  That was.
• 17:25
  In mind being an and mindfulness from the start to it to, you know, okay.
• 17:31
  Don't get.
• 17:32
  You know, evaluating if I was getting stuck.
• 17:36
  But mostly I saw it as a golden opportunity.
• 17:41
  Too.
• 17:43
  Prepare for something that obviously I wasn't.
• 17:47
  They came to me.
• 17:50
  And I wasn't then.
• 17:51
  Fight.
• 17:53
  In a conventional sense as in do battle with.
• 17:57
  What happened with the, the feelings I had wrestled with in the first bit, there at least a year, a little more.
• 18:04
  Where.
• 18:06
  We're all things that.
• 18:08
  I think what happened is I made actionable.
• 18:14
  Yous.
• 18:15
  Of, for example, What you said in, in your lead in was if I felt, oh my God, what's, you know, visions of, who's going to take care of me.
• 18:26
  How are they going to know what to do?
• 18:28
  I put my affairs in order, so that.
• 18:31
  You know, so I was taking, I did what I could to take care of the future.
• 18:35
  Huh.
• 18:36
  Not with this utter conviction.
• 18:39
  I am going to.
• 18:41
  I wasn't driven by.
• 18:43
  I'm going to die.
• 18:45
  Huh.
• 18:47
  As, as something as a concept.
• 18:51
  Or um, Hovering menace in my day.
• 18:59
  More as you know, my tidy self making sure.
• 19:02
  Organized.
• 19:02
  Yeah.
• 19:03
  I just organize time to get organized.
• 19:06
  So.
• 19:07
  And Yeah.
• 19:09
  And then I just dove in.
• 19:12
  In those quiet days, too.
• 19:14
  Kind of.
• 19:15
  Trying to get a read on my own emotional fears and areas that you would expect anyone to go through.
• 19:23
  And make a decision about About.
• 19:27
  Oh, I wanted to move forward.
• 19:30
  Right.
• 19:30
  So you were already living, you.
• 19:31
  You've already, like when I met you, you were a very alive person.
• 19:35
  You're a very alive person today.
• 19:38
  And I think sometimes when people get a terminal diagnosis, Or have a near death experience.
• 19:46
  It's like a wake-up call of, well, I'm not living, I'm not embracing everything that I want to do.
• 19:52
  And my sense of who you are as I've known you, is that didn't happen because you've already been doing that.
• 19:59
  I mean, anybody that takes a map and closes their eyes and points their finger and then goes and lives there.
• 20:04
  And there's an amazing story.
• 20:05
  What.
• 20:05
  W we don't have time to go into that today, but there is an amazing story of all the things that happened to you in Peru.
• 20:10
  For being gifted, a piece of property becoming part of a community and walking to do, you know, farming with the rest of the community every day.
• 20:19
  And.
• 20:19
  I mean, there's a whole.
• 20:21
  There's a whole life there.
• 20:24
  There's a life.
• 20:27
  Every moment there is.
• 20:29
  Life in you.
• 20:31
  And, and so I guess I'm asking you didn't have that cliche experience of finding out you're going to die.
• 20:39
  And we're all gonna die and we all know we're all gonna die.
• 20:42
  Right.
• 20:42
  So can you talk about that a little bit?
• 20:44
  Like how.
• 20:46
  Yeah, I can, if anything.
• 20:50
  Getting the diagnosis.
• 20:54
  Amplified.
• 20:56
  My.
• 20:56
  Daily practice of.
• 20:59
  All the things that.
• 21:02
  Got me to be the person you just described.
• 21:06
  I felt like I was in a PhD course on mindfulness and, you know, it was a real gift in that way.
• 21:14
  So there was the same kind of gift that a lot of people experience is just., On a different floor.
• 21:19
  If an elevator goes up and down floors, it was a different floor than what a lot of people experienced since you were kind of already in a very alive state.
• 21:28
  Yeah.
• 21:29
  Yeah.
• 21:29
  And I didn't scramble to on my bucket list because I didn't really have one.
• 21:34
  Huh.
• 21:34
  Right.
• 21:35
  And I didn't, I didn't get frantic and say, oh, I've always wanted to, you know, Well, sales shopping spree fix.
• 21:46
  Right.
• 21:46
  There was more of, there was more of like, what I witnessed was more like of a deepening of the relationships you have, whether that's a relationship with your spiritual rituals or a relationship with mindfulness, a relationship with your children.
• 22:00
  Totally.
• 22:00
  Totally.
• 22:01
  It was just a deepening.
• 22:02
  Totally life.
• 22:03
  And do you know what right from the get co.
• 22:07
  On this thread is the radiologist.
• 22:11
  Talk to me and a big looming man, you know, like a judge on a high platform.
• 22:17
  Rolled right into my face.
• 22:19
  And there I am beneath him in a gown, a hospital gun that.
• 22:23
  Gone that we all love.
• 22:25
  And wish we had more.
• 22:28
  And he, he had out his clipboard and he said okay.
• 22:31
  Now I'm going to schedule get you all scheduled for this and this and this and this.
• 22:36
  And.
• 22:38
  It took like two to three attempts.
• 22:42
  To stop that.
• 22:45
  That.
• 22:46
  Thing that he wanted to rev up.
• 22:48
  He could not imagine that you had a choice and that you might be choosing none of those.
• 22:54
  Correct.
• 22:55
  And understandably from how he was trained and, and how he's experienced and what he happens to do.
• 23:02
  So in my mind, I probably wasn't rude, but in my mind, you know, His behavior pushed me to the point where I, I straightened up in my gown and I said, look, I'm 73.
• 23:18
  71.
• 23:19
  Back then.
• 23:20
  And I said, I live.
• 23:24
  The life.
• 23:25
  That's more fulfilling than I ever dreamed of.
• 23:28
  I am totally content.
• 23:32
  And grateful and happy.
• 23:35
  I'm retired.
• 23:37
  I don't feel like I have.
• 23:39
  More left to do in my life other than just be where I am.
• 23:46
  Yeah.
• 23:47
  And I said, This doesn't make sense to me.
• 23:52
  Does it to you?
• 23:55
  And that stopped him.
• 23:57
  And I remember kind of a background awareness of the young women.
• 24:03
  Texts in the room who were there.
• 24:05
  During this, and they just went totally, still kind of like ducks when they're scared and making.
• 24:11
  We'll hold still enough.
• 24:16
  They won't see me.
• 24:18
  Because there might be some stuff there.
• 24:20
  It doesn't make any sense through.
• 24:23
  And I walked out of there and, and I.
• 24:27
  I mean, I, I was, I knew to anticipate, you know, just for my, my, who I am.
• 24:33
  Okay.
• 24:34
  The shocks going to, you know, the bomb went off.
• 24:37
  When am I going to start feeling the shockwaves?
• 24:41
  So that's kind of how I, I.
• 24:44
  Moved.
• 24:45
  From that point, I knew.
• 24:49
  What I could anticipate.
• 24:51
  The kind of sideswiping waves that.
• 24:55
  Anyone is going to go through.
• 24:57
  So I went and got a fish sandwich at the drive through fish shack.
• 25:01
  And went and parked on the curb to eat it.
• 25:04
  And that's when the first wave really hit.
• 25:08
  And I just sat there with it.
• 25:12
  Aye like the access of my earth just flipped.
• 25:16
  Yeah.
• 25:19
  So there was a feeling of, of disorientation.
• 25:24
  In space and time.
• 25:27
  I don't remember, you know, bawling my eyes out or grabbing a hold of the steering wheel to steady myself, but I remember.
• 25:37
  I mean, it's like being in the sea and you, and you ha you see the, the big one coming towards you and you decide just to stand there and.
• 25:46
  And let it wash over you.
• 25:47
  Without being sucked out.
• 25:51
  So.
• 25:52
  Let me just like recap this, this was the first time that you had told another person.
• 25:58
  About the mass.
• 26:01
  This was the result of, of having finally gone into my doctor and told him that him that I had discovered a mass.
• 26:12
  And asked him.
• 26:13
  What.
• 26:14
  The least invasive.
• 26:18
  Way to confirm.
• 26:20
  A diagnosis.
• 26:22
  Would be because I wasn't going.
• 26:24
  I wasn't willing to do anything invasive.
• 26:27
  And he said, not even a biopsy.
• 26:28
  And I said, no.
• 26:31
  So I had that as a starting point.
• 26:34
  No matter how strong your beliefs or intentions are with especially physical things.
• 26:40
  What you'll.
• 26:42
  Do if it happens to you?
• 26:44
  So the first wave that you're talking about is a wave of this is real.
• 26:49
  This is real.
• 26:50
  I've spent a year and a half thinking about it and reading.
• 26:54
  I know what I want to do.
• 26:57
  So it was really more a strategic conversation and it was the first one.
• 27:03
  No, it wasn't the first one.
• 27:05
  But it was.
• 27:06
  The second one.
• 27:08
  Were there more waves that came after that?
• 27:11
  Parked in the car with my fish sandwich.
• 27:13
  Yes, but not D they weren't disorienting to me like that one.
• 27:19
  That was, you know, a real tsunami.
• 27:22
  And, but it past.
• 27:25
  You know, by the time I drove home.
• 27:28
  Yeah.
• 27:28
  Past the emotions went through your past.
• 27:30
  And actually now that I'm thinking of it, I think it's after that point.
• 27:35
  That I had a neighbor.
• 27:38
  Who was.
• 27:41
  A very dear friend.
• 27:43
  And really a wild card.
• 27:45
  She was way too creative and passionate and unhinged for me, but it was delightful to.
• 27:52
  To Have.
• 27:53
  You know the road between.
• 27:55
  To know her and know that I also had a road between our houses and, you know, Cause cause it was intense, but I can't remember.
• 28:04
  In order.
• 28:06
  When I, I talked with her about it, but I told her I had discovered.
• 28:10
  A small.
• 28:12
  Lump in my breast.
• 28:14
  And she decided that We should call it my Pearl.
• 28:18
  Your Pearl.
• 28:19
  I like that.
• 28:20
  And so for a long time That's what I called it.
• 28:26
  Your Pearl.
• 28:28
  And then, you know, There was a long gap where.
• 28:34
  I did have to go through fear and you know, all the other emotions that were challenging.
• 28:41
  To To make my way through.
• 28:43
  But I did it privately for the most part.
• 28:47
  And I would talk about it with various people.
• 28:50
  After that point.
• 28:52
  It's been two years since that appointment.
• 28:55
  Oh, it's been longer.
• 28:56
  That appointment was, let's This is the Horse Human Connection.
• 29:04
  A captivating podcast where we extend into the world of equine assisted learning.
• 29:10
  Horse Training.
• 29:11
  and gentleness in working with these magnificent creatures.
• 29:16
  Captivating stories from the leading professionals and ordinary people alike unravel novel ideas in being with horses.
• 29:24
  The horse human connection is an idea, a place, and a voice.
• 29:30
  The idea is to support the quiet revolution and recognize the intelligence and true nature of the horse.
• 29:38
  The place is a destination farm near the Umpqua Forest and River that slows down visitors and patrons enough to experience the shift.
• 29:47
  The Voice is this podcast.
• 29:51
  Welcome to today's episode.
• 30:01
  see.
• 30:02
  In 2019 sometime.
• 30:07
  Early 2019.
• 30:11
  Is when you found it.
• 30:12
  When I found it, I didn't have a dime.
• 30:16
  Diagnosis of Until.
• 30:20
  At one point I could be mistaken, but at one point, did you tell me that the diagnosis was at stage four?
• 30:27
  No, I might've told you that.
• 30:30
  You know, the dates are jumbled.
• 30:31
  I can't do it that way.
• 30:33
  I might've told you that, that there was a suspected metastasis.
• 30:38
  That I didn't know about.
• 30:40
  Okay.
• 30:40
  Under my armpit.
• 30:42
  Okay.
• 30:43
  In the limp, you know, the lymph node.
• 30:46
  And how long ago was that?
• 30:48
  That was the same time as the diagnosis of cancer was, but they, they couldn't confirm that.
• 30:55
  Confirm metastasis.
• 30:58
  It showed up on the ultrasound.
• 31:00
  It did.
• 31:01
  Okay.
• 31:01
  Because what I wanted from my doctor was something that would qualify me for, you know, insurance hospice.
• 31:10
  Down the line.
• 31:11
  And I said, what's the least in.
• 31:13
  What's the minimal thing I can do.
• 31:15
  That's non-invasive that would allow.
• 31:19
  For me to have that ticket.
• 31:21
  Basically you were after a ticket, not.
• 31:23
  I was after a ticket, not more information from them.
• 31:26
  Right.
• 31:27
  Yeah.
• 31:27
  So how are you today?
• 31:29
  Like just this trip.
• 31:31
  Down you look healthier than I've seen you.
• 31:36
  And a long time, right?
• 31:38
  I'm not that, I mean, the last couple of times you were a little tired.
• 31:40
  One time you had like some stomach thing going on, that you came to see me.
• 31:44
  But I mean, you've always looked healthy and been very strong.
• 31:48
  I, I just want to tell this story.
• 31:51
  I remember.
• 31:54
  I remember you going to cook at D The cob place.
• 31:59
  As a cook.
• 32:00
  And I remember you telling me a story that you had gone.
• 32:03
  On a walk and I've been there and I've been a cook there and I've been a student there.
• 32:07
  So I know the hill that you were talking about.
• 32:08
  I know the barefoot hike.
• 32:10
  That Yamanto like to take people on.
• 32:12
  And I think what you had told me is, you know, There are a lot of younger people there, of course.
• 32:20
  And that they were surprised that you, you went on the bike, the hike barefoot, if I'm remembering right.
• 32:24
  And that you were behind and they were kind of concerned about you.
• 32:28
  And then eventually they got tired and you were in the front of the group.
• 32:34
  At the top of the hill.
• 32:37
  I love that story because it's so much like you, and it reminds me of this story.
• 32:42
  When I first met you, that you had signed up for my cob.
• 32:46
  Teaching.
• 32:46
  At workshop and you had taken the bus down.
• 32:50
  And my husband who was helping out at my husband at the time, it was helping out the workshop.
• 32:54
  One of us needed to go get you at the bus stop.
• 32:57
  And you called and said, well, I'm here, but don't don't you guys worry?
• 33:01
  I've got my knitting.
• 33:03
  I'll just sit here until you arrive.
• 33:05
  And the excess would looked at me and said, what are you doing?
• 33:08
  Like.
• 33:08
  You get some old lady.
• 33:09
  Kind of knitting needles.
• 33:13
  You're going to be able to help us because Cod is like really hard.
• 33:16
  Labor is work.
• 33:19
  And then I remember when you were rived you told me a story, kind of a shapeshifter story about, well, I was there and.
• 33:27
  And they seem to think that I needed some help with my suitcase.
• 33:30
  And this was, you were a very young, vibrant, like 60 at the time, maybe 62.
• 33:36
  And which is almost the age I am now.
• 33:38
  And I remember you told me, so I just let them, I just hunched over a little bit more and decided that I would just be a little old lady and.
• 33:47
  Take care.
• 33:49
  It was absolutely.
• 33:51
  Hysterical, but it encapsulates who you are too.
• 33:58
  It's a form of generosity, I think, to sometimes be like that.
• 34:01
  Yeah, though, that's a beautiful way of.
• 34:05
  I'm saying it.
• 34:05
  And so like with the character that you have, it doesn't surprise me how you've, how you've managed.
• 34:13
  This whole, it's now a hole in your, in your breast.
• 34:17
  It looks a bit like an inner tube.
• 34:19
  And it's open in the middle and it drains out occasionally.
• 34:22
  And you look absolutely healthy and vibrant.
• 34:27
  Well, something happened.
• 34:30
  And I'm not sure what it was about.
• 34:33
  A month ago.
• 34:35
  And it was.
• 34:37
  I really don't know what happened.
• 34:39
  I'll try and describe it for you, but it was a turning point from, you know all the work with the Hawaiian.
• 34:46
  Healer.
• 34:47
  And being really, really immersed in that.
• 34:52
  And then coming to a point that.
• 34:57
  In my work with her that.
• 35:00
  Almost like a proving point.
• 35:02
  Like.
• 35:03
  Aye.
• 35:03
  Aye.
• 35:05
  Didn't need her to.
• 35:06
  To have, you know, weekly or every two weeks sessions with me.
• 35:10
  I felt like I wanted to test the waters.
• 35:14
  On my own.
• 35:15
  And And because she's so, so.
• 35:19
  Forceful in a way, in terms of.
• 35:23
  Incur in her support.
• 35:26
  There are, there are other disciplines that I wanted to bring back on the table.
• 35:32
  And work with, from my.
• 35:35
  My life.
• 35:36
  Long investigations of those.
• 35:39
  So.
• 35:41
  I started Doing some of that.
• 35:44
  Including enlarging.
• 35:46
  What was a very strict diet for.
• 35:49
  For 10 months.
• 35:51
  And I, I don't know if it was just that transition away.
• 35:56
  Into testing my own stability independently of her support.
• 36:05
  We're claiming that.
• 36:08
  You know, So it's almost like, like claiming something that then I started to feel.
• 36:15
  Better.
• 36:17
  Like there was a completion of something.
• 36:19
  Something.
• 36:20
  Wow.
• 36:21
  That's amazing.
• 36:21
  That is an amazing story.
• 36:23
  That you going to.
• 36:25
  I remember when you told me that you didn't want any treatment.
• 36:29
  Of course, my inclination was like, oh, what about this?
• 36:32
  What about that?
• 36:32
  What about that?
• 36:33
  And I knew not to say that too.
• 36:34
  I knew not to say that because I know you're smarter than somewhere.
• 36:39
  right.
• 36:39
  And then when you did choose one thing to commit to.
• 36:43
  You really committed to it.
• 36:46
  Oh, no question.
• 36:47
  And then you took it to completion.
• 36:51
  And now you've, you've been free of that.
• 36:54
  For a little while and felt a shift.
• 36:57
  I can't wait to hear what happens next.
• 37:00
  You know, I mean, you've really been on this amazing journey with this hole in your breast.
• 37:06
  I don't even want to call it cancer.
• 37:07
  I, we did the video.
• 37:09
  If the horse healing session.
• 37:11
  My, my, my, my weeping Pearl you're reaping parole.
• 37:15
  Yes, it's a beautiful weeping Pearl.
• 37:19
  Well, I feel I feel, I guess I feel kind of excited myself, just like you expressed without any idea.
• 37:30
  And I, and.
• 37:31
  And I feel a reserve.
• 37:35
  Cautionary reserve in myself.
• 37:38
  To keep in mind that.
• 37:41
  The use of, well, linguistically we can talk about this, the power of a word, right?
• 37:47
  And pain.
• 37:48
  Isn't a good example of this.
• 37:50
  People get poked by a rock or stung by a nettle.
• 37:55
  Or something like that and they go.
• 37:59
  Oh, this hurt me.
• 38:02
  I've been stung.
• 38:05
  Rather than, and those words have power to create.
• 38:12
  All sorts of things.
• 38:14
  So if you replaced the word steam.
• 38:19
  With.
• 38:20
  And this is what nettle work has taught me.
• 38:23
  Actually the plant taught me this.
• 38:26
  Why do you call that a sting?
• 38:28
  Why don't you look deeper into it past that what's going on?
• 38:34
  Hmm.
• 38:34
  I feel tingling.
• 38:38
  Could it be?
• 38:38
  My arthritis feels a little better.
• 38:41
  It lasts for how long.
• 38:44
  Not very long.
• 38:47
  That.
• 38:48
  It's maybe a little uncomfortable when it first happens.
• 38:52
  But all those things in large, the relationship with that plant.
• 38:58
  Where, if you say.
• 39:00
  Dammit that plants don't me.
• 39:02
  Right?
• 39:02
  You're in such a judgment in such a tizzy.
• 39:05
  And it didn't yet, instead of staying in a mindful state of, of observation of what's happening with your nerves, what's happening with your skin, what's happening underneath your skin, exploring it, exploring it in true adventuresome.
• 39:19
  It's spirit.
• 39:19
  You know, so when you Oh, God, you're looking so better.
• 39:23
  I don't, I wouldn't even know you have, you know, a weeping Pearl stuck on your breast.
• 39:28
  Right.
• 39:28
  I'm wary of.
• 39:30
  S self programming.
• 39:34
  Yes.
• 39:34
  You've been very cautious about that the whole time.
• 39:38
  And at this point with how I feel right now, I have my antenna up about how to name.
• 39:46
  You know, How the name what's happening to myself.
• 39:52
  So that it doesn't.
• 39:56
  It doesn't take away from the absolutely miraculous journey.
• 40:01
  This is, this is the experience.
• 40:04
  Because if I say, oh my God, I'm feeling so much better.
• 40:07
  I think I'm going to be cured.
• 40:09
  You don't want to say that.
• 40:09
  I don't want to say that you want to stay away from the judgements you staying in observation, which is how we learn, which is what mindfulness is too, is just being and.
• 40:20
  Observing and not bringing in conclusion, bringing in judgment and.
• 40:25
  I think your session with Sipsy yesterday, sepsis.
• 40:29
  He's my horse and And then me interviewing you a little bit afterwards, you were very much in.
• 40:35
  Observation.
• 40:37
  Of what had happened without, without conclusions.
• 40:40
  And that's, that's the way I approach horses too.
• 40:42
  And.
• 40:43
  So, I mean, that's, maybe that's some commonality there.
• 40:46
  But I noticed as I was interviewing you.
• 40:48
  That you avoided, or you seemed to avoid the word cancer.
• 40:52
  And that's one of the things I was like, I need to interview her.
• 40:57
  This because it's such an incredible story.
• 41:00
  It is truly.
• 41:02
  And you were truly an incredible woman.
• 41:05
  Oh, thank you for sharing all this, Sarah.
• 41:08
  I'm so glad I know you.
• 41:11
  And that you're a part of my heart and soul.
• 41:14
  You too.
• 41:16
  All right.
• 41:16
  Well, I think we'll end there.
• 41:18
  I think we better.
• 41:19
  Okay.