Latest / Foul Territory / Max Scherzer joins the Kurkjians

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Max Scherzer joins the Kurkjians · Foul Territory

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Is this great game or what? And our
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: special guest today is Max Scherzer, Toronto Blue Jays pitcher
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and a future Hall of Famer. Max, this is my son, Jeff.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: I gave him no height, back hair, and my terrible voice.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Say hi to Jeff well Fellows, thanks for having me on. Max.
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: I gotta say your kiddos are already off to a
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: better start athleticism wise, with you and your wife and
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: your genes that you're bringing to the table. But Max,
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: I have to say, first of all, great to meet you.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: I was so excited hearing that you wanted to be
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: a part of our podcast. And one of our favorite
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: moments from a previous interview was when we had Ryan
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Zimmerman on the show and we did ten minutes with
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: him talking specifically about Max rules while basketball. We yeah, yeah,
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: well so now we need to go to the source
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: our Max schools.
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Zim can play a little bit. Yeah no, this
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: was it. Uh you know I said, I played basketball
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: in the off season my first fifteen years of my career.
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: So I had that back surgery once I had to
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: hurt any diss and the back surgery, they're like, you
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: can't jump and land anymore like you can, like you
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: just if you're gonna pitch, you can't play basketball. It
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: was finally like the moment in time when I was like,
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: all right, that's it, no more basketball, Like all right,
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: there's always been one of those things I've always know.
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: It's like so frowned upon in the game they ever
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: played basketball, because you know you're risking serious injury. And
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: you know, I felt like I kind of got away
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: at it way, Hey, no, we're gonna play basketball, okay,
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: but we gotta take away the the big injuries. We
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: gotta take away the knee injuries. And that's always by
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: landing on each other. And so you know, it was
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: kind of I say, it kind of started in Detroit
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: where there were some games going on kind of in
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: the offseason screen train where it was more like a
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: shooting competition where you're going up and down the court
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: and you're just you're kind of shooting at each other.
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: And the kind of rules that we came up with
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: was like, hey, the defensive player can't leave their feet,
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: so like, let the offensive player make moves, shoot jump like,
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: you know, make it an athletic move, you know, let
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: the defender play hard.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: You just can't leave your feet and jump to try
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: to block a shot.
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: And then we said, all right on the inverse, like
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: once you know the you know, like, once you shoot
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: the ball, then the defensive player can.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Jump up to go get the rebound.
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: And then but the offensive player can can't jump to
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: get a rebound. So once you shoot, like you're either
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: gonna go get a rebound by staying on the ground
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: or or you're falling back on defense.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: And so it's that way, only one person was jumping in.
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: The air at a time, and so like that way
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: you could really kind of run a basketball game. If
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: both players are kind of you trying to abide by that,
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: then play as hard as you can.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: You can actually play some really intense basketball games that way.
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: And so yeah, Zim, there was an off season where
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: I kept eggings Zim on, like, Zim, come on, we
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: can play like.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: We're not gonna hurt each other.
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: We're gonna we're gonna we're gonna get after it like
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: we're gonna do it.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: You came up.
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: Patrick Ewing was nice enough at Georgetown to let us
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: use a practice facility there, and so we had some
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: good games up and down the court where uh yeah,
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: we're playing some some hardcore pickup basketball.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: But they had to have those rules so you can't
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: get hurt right now.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Max Zim also told us that you insisted that after
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: five buckets of each game that you guys shot free throws,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: because the only way to tell how good a free
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: throw shooter you are is when you're shooting them fatigued.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Is that correct?
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: Yes, that's correct. It was also a way, you know,
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: we were kind of playing the fifteen twos and ones
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: and at five and at ten, we usually take a
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: break to two free throws, so like if you're tired,
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: kind of gives you a break because we're playing up
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: and down like it's either one on one or.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Two on two full court, So that I mean, it
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: was a conditioning.
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: It was for conditioning, and so like when you're playing
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: one on one full court or two and two full court,
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: like you're up and down, like all right, we need
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: just a second, cut your breath, and I get like
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: I said, it's.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: A good time.
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: Hey, if you can make a free throw when you're tired,
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: that's when you know you can make a free throw.
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: And kind of that mentality it takes and make a
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: free throw when you're tired. Well, that kind of translates
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: over the pitchure like hey, you know you're gonna beat
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: a big spot, Like can you execute when everything's on
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: the line. So, uh, basketball puts it in the physical sense,
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: you know, baseball puts in the mental sense, but they
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: kind of play with each other in that regard.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: And Chris Bassett, sorry, Jeff. Chris Bassett, former teammate of
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: max Is, told me last year that when you found
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: out that he was a really good high school player,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: you went to him and said, we're playing full court,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: one on one, you and me. And Chris Bassett looks
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: a goes, Max, I'm not playing one on one full
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: court with you?
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Is that true? Also, yeah, that's true. I would love
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: to play basketball on one full court.
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: That's when you really find out because it's conditioning, like
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: you know, we can play half court, like you can
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: start playing the conditioning because like for pictures, that's how
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: I use this conditioning.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: You know that really gets up and down like let's
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: see what you got basket is? Uh, you know it's crazy.
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: You know you get him on the basketball, he's really fluid,
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: so uh you see his motion and everything there's no
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: way can be fluid. And he gets on the court
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: and he moves around like he's normal, Like so yeah,
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: he's good as well, right.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: Max, We played pickup basketball at every one of my
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: high school buddies weddings. Now we're all thirty two, thirty
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: three years old, so the game has changed massively from
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: when we played summers in high school, where we were
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: full contact, running hard as we can, I mean, just
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: everybody up for rebound, and now we're kind of adopting
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: something like Max rules, so nobody gets hurt, especially the groom.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: The groom.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: The rule at our weddings is you can't. We just
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: say you can't guard the groom right, like you can
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: face guard him right here, but there's no if the
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: groom is driving, there's a little bit of like a
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: you know when a kid gets to play one down,
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: you know at the fall game in college, it's like.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: We're like, oh, oh, we just missed him.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: Like if he because if we injure the groom, we're dead.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: So we gotta play Max rules. Yeah, just the upper body.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: You can just stay on the upper body. You gotta
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: leave the lower body alone.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Right, kind of like the NBA all Star Game, right, Yeah, yes,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: it's unwatchable. Yeah, Max, it is Max. Who was your
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: basketball guy growing up? Who did you used to watch
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: and say, if I want to be a basketball player,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: that's the basketball player I love to watch.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: You know, the nineties basketball air. I mean just all
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: For me, it was also it was about playing it,
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: playing in high school, playing you know, playing in middle
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: school and playing in high school. I always go back
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: to Coach Kirby. You know, Rick Kirby was my high
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: school basketball coach. Coach me so hard in basketball, really
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: made me better. Love those high school teams I was
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: a part of. You know, I just love the game.
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: I love the game of basketball. I mean it's you know,
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: grow up in Saint Louis, you know, you don't have
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: you have winners, so you can't play baseball year round.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: So uh it's great.
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: It was actually great for development athleticism wise to be
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: able to in the offseason go play basketball. So you know,
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: you know, obviously you're gonna say the Michael Jordan's, the
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: Allen Iverson's, all those guys in that air. Uh, but
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: I just appreciate the air of the basketball, how physical
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: it was, how tough it was. I think that we
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: all crave that we all wish the game would revert
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: to some form of that again. And so you know,
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: playing it, you know, I love that form of basketball.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: I love the pick.
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: I like kind of a harder game, like as long
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: as as long as the contacts up up high in
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: the upper half.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: Basketball is actually I like it when it gets really physical.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I max I had. I heard an NBA
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: guy say the other day, our game is way more
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: physical than it was in the eighties, and I had
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: to say.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: You've got to be kidding me.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: And the way the Pistons play, the way the played,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: the Knicks played, the way everyone played. You just did
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: not go down the lane without taking your life.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: In your hands. Back then, it was incredibly physical. Have
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: I got this right? Yeah, that's what That's how I
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: see it. Yeah, just the you know, you don't see
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: any like you.
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: I kind of wonder in my head, like weapons if
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: Shack was around in today's game, Like, is Shaq still
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: the same dominant force as you know we got to
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: watch in the nineties as he is to you know,
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: would it be in the same way into today's game? Like,
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: I don't know, to me that he's one of that.
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: He doesn't get talked about enough of how dominant he was.
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: And so, uh, you know, I missed that part of
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: the game. I missed watching physical interior play. Like that's fun,
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: fun to be a part of.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Right, Max, you went to the University of Missouri and
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: your wife, Erica was a pitcher at the University of Missouri. Oh,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: you were a pretty good major league hitting pitcher. How
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: did you ever face her anywhere along the way college?
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Since then? How did and how did that go?
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: I never did step in a box against her. I
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: did catch her a few times. And when it's you know,
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: at forty three feet, like, man, it's moved, right, I mean,
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: you know, like you know they throw rise balls, it's
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: really just fuzzy, like they're just you know, like forcings
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: that you know really have hop you know, like you know,
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: their curveball, their curveball, they call it drop balls.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: Those things move their curveballs like a slider.
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: You know, they have a little screwballs. So like, yeah,
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: they can have it with a lot of different ways to
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: make the pitch move. Uh. You know, it's jealous in
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: some regards because they can throw six hundred pitches a
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: day so they can work on all their they can
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: have all these pitches and just work on it over
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: and over and over where you know, you know, I'm
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: most team, Like I can only throw about twelve sliders
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: in one day, Like that's it. Like I can only
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: work be up max up. If I throw bre like
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: twelve dollars in this day, like I might hurt my arm.
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: So you know, it's funny how the two pitching, how
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: they're polar opposites at the same time.
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but at the same time as that, you guys
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: were probably in season at the same time in college.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: So would you ever have a game at the same time,
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: either you know, one traveling and one other and you
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: call each other and say, okay, how many pitches did
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: you throw? How many strikeouts did you throw?
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: And like compare stat lines.
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: Uh, not so much because uh, you know, she had
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: gotten hurt.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: So she was miszoo her year.
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: She was start the first year, and then she had
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: transferred to slew to try to pitch, and so in
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: the in that next year, you know, and my junior year,
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: sophomore year, she was trying to pitch again, had a
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: few starts, she got hurt again.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: She she dealt with a lot of.
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: Injuries, and so she wasn't able to She wasn't able
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: to pitch as much as you would have liked.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: But she has a pitching mind. She knows, she.
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: Knows how the game, how the games operate, you know,
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: like how did how did you think about hitting spots?
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: You know, and so you know in the earlier dating careers. Yeah,
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: there was a lot of pitching over last like how
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: to actually expect.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Jeff Max, of course, is a great athlete, and he
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: really enjoyed hitting and running the bases. We'll get to
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: your three stolen bases in a minute. But you hit
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: a home run off of I don't even know who
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: did you hit your homer off?
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: And what was that like for you? Uh?
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: Crystal Crystal Grady in Miami. Yep, I'll never forget it.
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: I feel like the only reason I hit that homer
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: is because the game because I actually had a neck.
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: I actually slept on wrong, had a neck spasm. I
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: didn't know if I was even going to pitch that day,
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: if I was going to scratch not. I tried to
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: go into first inning. It's not good, I'm going up there.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: The bunt.
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: Dusty has me try to bunt two times. I can't
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: get the bunt down. I'm gonna to too strike count.
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: It takes a bun off and I'm actually flashing. He
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: actually gave me the slash, and so you know, I'm
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: up there just slash and because I can't pull off
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: the ball. My neck is stiff, so I can't. I can't,
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: I can't pull off the ball. I actually run it
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: slash and I keep my head actually on the ball,
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: and I.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Finally hit it and hit a home run like furst Off.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: You know how I would hit my first. Max.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: You stole three bases, never got caught stealing. You're three
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: for three. That's how you are, and you're probably not
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: going to get a fourth. Tell us about the stolen
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: bases and what what pride you took as an athlete,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: as a pitcher stealing a base in the big leagues.
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I'm I'm way happier about those. I really
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: I fought for those, you know, in the first couple
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: of years in DC, when I you know, I came
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: back from uh, you know, being in an American league.
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: You know, I was always talking to you know, kind
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: of Matt Williams, like, hey, let me go.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: I can get this. Like there's certain.
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: Guys like, look, I can go, I can run, like
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: let me go. And so same thing with Dusty, like Dusty,
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: let me go. I'm yelling at Dusty all the time,
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: like let me go, let me go. It wasn't until
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: finally Daty came and you know, we're in spring training.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: We're doing some picture sprints.
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: And uh you know, all the pictures are going and
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: I go out and I unleash it and I'm feeling good.
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: You know, I gotta go. I go get it and
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: Davy sees me running. He goes, my gosh, you can
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: steal bases.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: I go, Dave, you haven't seen this for years, Like
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: give me the green light.
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: I'll go, like I'm ready. Uh So we talk about it.
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: You know, we go through that spring train. Davy and
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: I are talking about it and he, you know, we
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: kind of came up to little of rules.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: He's like, I'm not gonna give you a sign or anything.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: He's like, you know, how to play the game.
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: If you got about five things they're telling you, you
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: can go, like go, so like, okay, the score of
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: the game out, who's up count? You know, like take
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: the whole you know, game, state and play. And then
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: there was you know times where hey, I think I
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: can get this base.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: You know, I got the pictures falling asleep.
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: I know, it's like when the pitch, you know, like
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: when there's a picture on you, you.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: Forget about it.
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: And so I could catch the rhythm, saw it and
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: I had five things, and there was three times I
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: found it and I got through the stone bases amazing.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: And Max, I hate to bring this up, but you
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: finished your major league career as a hitter, and we're
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: not finished with your career, but you were, oh you
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: were oh for fifty nine and I'm sorry Max, your
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: final year you being so competitive, loving to get How
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: did you handle going oh for fifty nine in your
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: final season before we went to the universal DH.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: I know, it's so painful. It's so painful.
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: I set like major league records for over, like to
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: not get it hit like coming off that like the
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: first two months of that season, like I feel like
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: I hit some decent balls, and so it was that's
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: like a matter of time, Like you know, I've been
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: you know, the past five years, I had been like
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: a two.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Hundred hitter, like I was. You know I'm not the
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: silver slugger of the you know, I'm not. You know.
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: It wasn't the best at you know, pitcher. I'm not
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: claiming that, but I like to say I was like fifth.
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: I was like the fifth best hitting pitcher, you know,
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: trying to make a claim for that. Hey, I could
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: get in there and I could I could get a hit.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: So I was used to hit.
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: No, I was always trying to hit over two hundred
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: and so, first couple months ago, buy him singing some balls,
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: like all right, it's gonna turn, It's gonna turn.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Then I had like a hammy injury or you know,
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: like my hammi was just barking. Just I couldn't.
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: There was like a six week period there where I
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: just wasn't in the I wasn't hitting as much. And
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: then it just cratered. And then like I quit working
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: at it. And then I'm just like, oh for thirty,
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: oh for forty like oh no, oh.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: No, no, I gotta get it. Now it's a thing.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Now it's a thing. Now it's in my head. And
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: then yeah, I just kept going. Got traded to Dodgers.
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: I was like, all right, let me try Albert Pools
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: is bad I gotta try Alba Pools to go up.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: I gotta do something that didn't work, and yeah, I
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: went oh for twenty twenty one.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Max.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: Maybe this is a cheesy question, but how for you
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: being a good hit hitting picture? We say again, how
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: did that inform you on the mound? Do you think
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: that that helped improve your game as a pitcher because
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: you kind of you definitely have the eye as a
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: hitter for sure.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't so much.
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: I mean, yes, it's too farce here. Uh, let's start
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: with the first is uh. I really I got better
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: from the hitting part because I started working with Kevin Long.
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: Kevin k Long, I was. I was in the cages.
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: I was like, k Long, if you're such a good
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: hitting coach, then teach me. I'm coachable. Whatever you tell me,
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: whatever drills, I will do it. I'm here to get better.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Just put with t work. Let's work at tea work
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: whatever you want, like, get me better. I'm here to work.
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: And so uh, I was like, teach me to major
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: league stuff, teach me what you I'm like, let me
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: learn what you guys are doing. And to his credit,
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: he really did. He taught me, worked with me. I
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: was in the cage all the time. I mean of
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: the other four days, uh, you know, the four days
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: in between starts, I was in the cage at least,
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: you know, I'm hitting three of the day's at least
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: sometimes four, Like I was hitting a lot, and just
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: being in the cage, being around the hitters and learning,
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: like you know, talking about the different lingo that all
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: the hitters were using, you know, like it made me
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: a little bit better. Yes, as a hitter, and yes
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: I got you know, I went out there and hit,
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: but just the intellect of understanding how guys were practicing,
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: what they actually were trying to accomplish in the cage,
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: how they were working at the swings, how they're you know,
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: you know, how they were.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: Using their legs.
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: That's all that it was watching that That's what made
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: me a better picture. And so I started understanding, Oh,
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: now I understand why you want to you know, the
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: tiny mechanisms how this swing breaks down. This is why
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: this swing is breaking down. When you see their hands
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: doing this, this is why their hands are going to
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: break down. And so you start understanding, you know, the
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: flaws and the swings that I had plenty of, and
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: we could never fully get rid of but why why,
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: how the swing, how there's flaws in the swing and
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: how you exploit that, and so it was really working
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: with k Long that under the understanding of that is
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: how I got to be.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: I feel like a better picture through here.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Right Max, you mentioned several managers are now a coach
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: that you played for. You also played for Buck Showalter,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: and I have a thousand Bucks Showalter stories. Just just
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: tell us something about Buck that just made you shake
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: your head, like, how in the world could he know this?
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Because he knows stuff. He sees stuff that nobody else sees.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: I know, I love Bucks so much. It was so
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: much fun playing with him. I'm so lucky. I've got
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: to play for so many good managers.
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: Uh. You know, he's in my old school category of
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: you know the ones I got to play for, and
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: that's Jim Leland, Dusty Baker, Buck, and Bochie. So you know,
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: I take your pick those All those guys are awesome.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Wow. You know, Buck especial to me. I had a
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: year and a half with them.
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: But every time you're talking to Buck, I always feel
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: like you're having three conversations and one because you're talking
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: about something he's gonna move it to something else, and
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: you're trying to still say in conversation one, and then
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: you find like, all right, I mean conversation two, and
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: then you got then you start getting down into details
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: and conversation two, then conversation three, and it's the third
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: conversation if there's another he's got another story he's bringing up,
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: and it's about story one and story three, and then like,
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: I mean, you got to be on your toes. You
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: gotta be ready to be able to talk about conversation
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: one three, move back to two, back to three, and
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: back to one.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Max. I just feel I love that. I love Buck.
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: I I'll stay with you. I'll stay with you. You want
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: to talk about one, I'll talk about one.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about three.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: I got one, one to three and you can sit
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: there for an hour and he's talking about all these
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: different things.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: He knows the game so well. Wow.
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: I mean it was a treat, joy was mine. But
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: I absolutely love playing for the Buck.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Max.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: He called me at ten o'clock one night, didn't even
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: say hello. It just starts with a seven, because you
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: know that's how he operates. And he says, Tim, have
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: you ever seen a great player who has a lot
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: of freckles. That's what he asked me at ten o'clock
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: good night, Like I've actually thought about that before. These
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: are the things that Buck thinks about. And you you're right,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: you are so lucky that you got to play for
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: him and all these other guys who obviously made you
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: a better picture along the way.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, actually I'll give you a good buck.
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: One is that you know he hasn't he had like
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: he you know, like the freckle thing you know, or
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: you know he will always say, uh, you know, like
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: hitters with blue eyes can't hit during the days, like
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: that was one of his big ones. And so like this,
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: I bought hold on time out here, like I don't
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: think you're right, and he's like, what do you meant?
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: I go, okay, Buck, what you're talking about with blue eyes?
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: I got one of them.
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: I got a brown.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: Eye like during the day. It doesn't that's not real,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Like I see the same out of boats. The fuck.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: I know you're smart, you're really really smart, and you
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: know everything about the game. On this one is you're
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: not right, Like I can see you wrong.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: H That is that is absolutely priceless. He is he
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: is something else.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: All right, Matt, So one other actually also just like
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: fuck a former guest of our show. We had Chris
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: Young on the show and he obviously with that Ranger
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: team you were part of, was president of ops and
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: you were He's a former.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Major league pitcher.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: I was always curious as a picture of your stature
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: and you've got the president. It was a former major
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: league pitcher and a good one at that. What was
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: that dynamic? Like that must have been pretty cool.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually really enjoyed that.
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: Actually have your GM be a former you know, major
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: league pitcher, Like, hey, we're speaking the same language now,
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: and you know, at that point in my career, you know,
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: I'm you know, I'm a veteran at this point, I
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: really understand like kind of the ins and outs, and
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: maybe I don't understand the GM game as much, you know,
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: but you know I have an idea. Uh you know,
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: he's kind of you know, frustrating into the GM game,
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: and uh, we just had a great relationship. Now all
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: the different decisions are going on behind the scenes about
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: you know, now I'm myself, but the other the guys and.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: How the rotation is is shaping up.
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: You know, that's one of the things that as I've
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: gotten to be a veteran in the game is the
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: role of a veteran is also kind of a conduit
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: between the manager. Count of it, between the GM, the
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: manager to the clubhouse and so, uh, you know, a
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: veteran's got to have a very good, you know relationship
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: with you know, those individuals to make sure your.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Team is a functioning team.
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: Uh so that you know, everybody can understand all the
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: decisions that are being made. Like and so for me,
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: I've always had, you know, lately, really good relationships with
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: you know, my manager especially, but also you know, knowing
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: the GM and no understand knowing that what they how
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: they think are seeing the game and and really seeing
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: our team, how they how they view our team, and
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: and so it's great to have see why, you know,
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: we had great conversations about the team and that what
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: we need to do and what needs to be pressed
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: and what does and so uh yeah, I definitely love
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: playing for him.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: Did you ever play hoops with him?
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: I didn't know.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: He's a good player.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: It's a vision one back. Yeah, he's way big.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: He's the tallest player. Max ever hit a triple in
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: a Major League game, and he described it for us
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: a couple of years ago on our podcast. It's one
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: of the funniest things.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: I've ever heard.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: He could not believe that they were waving him from
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: second to third like how and then they had him
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: slide into third and he was just laughing, like, what
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: are you doing to me? I can't run watch the video?
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: All Right, back on to something a little more serious. Unfortunately,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: we've lost the value of our starting pitcher today. I
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: grew up in an era where I watched Jim Palmer
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: face Sandy Kofax in the World Series, Denny McClain faced
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Bob Gibson in the World Series. And yet last year
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: we averaged just over five innings per start by our starters,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: and for the last ten years have been like the
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: ten and the lowest numbers of how many out a
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: pitch a starting pitcher gets. How concerned are you about this?
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: And what is a possible solution to return the value
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: of the starting pitcher to the game?
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean this is where the analytics come into
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: the game. And then you know, this is where the
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: front offices. You know, when the constant is searching for
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: efficiency to win more ball games. You know, they look
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: at it and they look at the starting pitcher and
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: they say, we don't want you to go in three
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: times through the lineup. You know, they're pulling out guys
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: what you know, kind of before they even have a
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: bad ending, and preemptively to try to win more ball games.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: And so I get the concept.
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: I get why, you know, the decisions are being made
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: in that regard, but to me, it's affecting kind of
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: the beauty of the game kind of the same way.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: You know, if you look at the NBA, how it was.
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: A much physical game in the nineties, and you know
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: how the game is much different today. You know, some
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: of the fans might not like the game how it's moved.
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: And so I feel like the same thing is kind
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: of happening in baseball now, only that as we moved
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: to this style, we said, all right, well, if we're
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: gonna have the starting pitcher pitch less, well, if you
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: say I'm gonna throw less pitches, well I'm gonna try
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: to throw more if if i'm if I'm built for
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: one hundred and ten pitches, you know, that's kind of
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: what I was used to. And you say, well, we
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: only want you to throw eighty five or ninety pitches. Well,
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: if I'm built for one ten, now I'm gonna try
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: to max effort these eighty five or ninety pitches. I
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: have more you know, intensity, And because of that, we're
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: also this is contributing to the injury risk, you know,
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: injuries within the game, and so, you know, I just
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: feel like there's a lot of as much as you
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: know this is an optimal way to win more ball
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: games and prevent more runs, I feel like it's negatively
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: affecting the game itself and negatively affecting pitching and harmful
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: to hitters. And so what we actually need to do
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: is make rules to make bring the starter back. I
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: think baseball's better when we have starting pitchers pitching deeper
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: in the ball games. It's a better game. It's actually
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: a more offensive game. You know, we're always trying to
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: make reals for the hitters. If we want to make
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: the game more offensive, just let the starter pitch longer
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: and you'll get more offense. It's it just works like that.
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: And so we actually need to start thinking about protecting
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: the pitcher, making the pitcher, uh, make putting more value
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: back into the starting pitcher. And making them pitch longer.
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: And so you know, what I've wanted to actually i'd
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: love to see implement uh is to get you know,
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: some type of pitch minimum into the game where look,
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: you can't come out of the game unless you throw
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: six innings or you're throwing you know, take a hundred pitches.
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: If we'll have to get there at some point. But
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: if you just theoreically said it's either six innings, one
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: hundred pitches, or four runs, you got to do one
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: of those before you can come out of the ball game.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: So you force the starter to start like you can't
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: come out.
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: If you go five innings, one run, and eighty pitches,
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: you got to stay in the game. You can't come out,
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: so you can't just play the matchup game.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: And so.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: You know, if that was kind of the standard, you know, hey,
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: you you're coming into if you're starting pitcher, you were
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: going to throw six innings or you're gonna throw on
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: our pitches, or.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: You got to give up four runs.
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: If that was a standard we have, I feel like
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: you'd have a much better the game would be in
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: a better spot because of that, because you'd have starters
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: there would then four starters to pitch more, and it
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: would correct a lot of things I think are wrong
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: with the ballgame.
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: Right now, Dah, before you follow up, I just want
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: to emphasize something that Max said that I really think, like,
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: just click the light bulb on for me and probably
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: a lot of baseball fans is here. We are thinking, Oh,
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: if you put a starting pitcher on a pitch count,
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: they're gonna throw eighty pitches instead of one hundred and
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: ten pitches, so they're gonna stay healthier. But what Max
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: just said, future Hall of Famer, which is I'm gonna
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: try to max out my eighty pitches, Which what competitor
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: wouldn't do that?
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: Which competitor wouldn't be like, Well, I'm gonna try to
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: go harder on my fastball and my slider to get
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: more guys out because I'm being limited. So it's actually,
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: quite frankly doing the opposite. That was just like such
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: a brilliant point that I needed to reemphasize because I
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: never really thought about it that way.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we got way too many pitchers getting hurt today.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: So Max, what is the penalty for taking a pitcher
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: out before eighty pitches or five innings or four runs,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: what do we do?
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: So you know this this is now now we're in
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: the nuts and bolts of this.
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: And then you know, being a part of the union
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: and doing all this and you really got you know, like,
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: all right, how would you do this? And so you
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: know step one, all right, let's talk about the DH
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: you start, you pull out, you pull out the uh
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: you know starter early, you lose your DS.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: For the whole game.
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: You know, for the rest of the game. It's also
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: up and I always say keep up in the ante
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: on this. At some point you got to get to
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: the point where, uh, you know, the the all the
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: analytics they're in the game are finally gonna.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: Say you can't like no, you wouldn't want.
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: To pull your starting pitture out because that would make it, uh,
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: we'll lose more ball games.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Like you can't.
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: You got to make the strategy be keep the starter
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: in the ballgame. And so if that's not enough, all right, well,
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: you know, like in game if you say, like in game, okay,
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: maybe you don't get the runner on second base and
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: extra innings, you know, because that's a huge value. You
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: didn't get that, you know, like that would be a negative. Uh,
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: you know, you know, just another thing that you could
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: easily do without actually affecting the ball game, but could dramatically,
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: you know, you know, you know, affect the ball game
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: or you start losing replay challenges or you know, like
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: mounds I don't know, keep coming up.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: But then they where you really would.
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: Actually get the teams to actually really start, you know, really,
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: if you really want to go after this is you
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: guys start going after uh, like the draft and and
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: the amount of money teams having draft woles.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: So if you really.
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: Want to affect change here, you guys sit there and
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: say it's you know, if you start pulling pitchers out
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: too early, at some rate, you would have to say,
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: you know, I don't have the final say here, but
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: I have the mechanism is saying, look, if you start
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: pulling too many pictures out early, you know, we're gonna
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: start taking away draft money or draft picks.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: And at that.
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: Point, teams, I guarantee you will say keep the starter in.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: We got to have our draft picks.
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: And so when you start affecting your organization like that,
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: that's when you actually fundamentally see a change. So you
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: would have to have the you know, you gotta have
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: the carrot there, like, all right, we got to keep
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: the you know, pitcher in the game because of you know,
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: kind of in game play rules.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: But then you kind of need.
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: That stick too in the rules to say if you
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: got if you're gonna have, you know, habitually keep pulling
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: the starting pitcher out of the ball game, you're gonna
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: get punished, and that that's the only way you're actually
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: gonna affect change.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Right now, Max, John Schneider told a great story how
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: he was trying to take you out of a World
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: Series game and you basically said, no, you're not. Just
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: quickly tell us what that confrontation was like with you
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: and your manager, who we know you love.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: That's not the point.
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I love you Andize he's great. We have
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: a great relationship. Talking about all the different balls really
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: gives me. It's like playing for Davy a lot in
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: a lot of ways. I really love playing for Davies.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: So that you know, everybad goes back to that Stile game.
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: I you know, I only made like a half season's
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: where it starts, and you know, anytime Schneid's would come
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: to the mountain's coming to take me out of the
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: ball game. And uh, in that moment in the ball game,
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: he was actually coming out to just check on me.
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: And so when I see him, you know, the say
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: the game, stay of the ball game. You know, I
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: understood where where we're at in the ballgame, where I
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: was at in the order, you know, like who's coming up,
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: what I needed.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: To do to get out of this uh inning.
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: And when I see uh, you know, Schne's coming up,
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Whoa wha. Oh no, no, I'm not. I'm not coming
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: out of this ball game.
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: And so my my first that was my first you
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: know instinct, was I'm not I'm not coming out of this. No.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: No, we had talked about this.
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: In a seven game series, it's different than a five
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: game series, like your starters have to start more in
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: a seven game series.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: You know, I knew what my pitch count was going
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: to be for that day.
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: I'm feeling great, I'm I'm putting up a fight.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: I'm not coming out of this ball game.
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: And he was more coming out to check on me,
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: and so I'm like, hey, I'm good, I'm good.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Like I'm good, and he's.
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: More like, let's go so you know everybody saw that,
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: saw the you know that that that was all over
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: the cameras, and you know that was good, good b Anster.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: But where the real fun came in was after that inning.
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: So I got out of that inning, came down, and
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: Schneider was coming up to tell me that I was
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: done that you know, I pitched my five innings. I
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: was good, and uh, and he comes, I'm back in
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: the tunnel a little bit, uh, because you know, I
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: don't want to be around the dugout when I'm in
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: between innings. And he's coming out to me to tell
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: me I'm done. I'm like, no, absolutely not. Are you crazy?
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: Are you crazy? Like no, I'm thinking in this ballgame,
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: Like you think I'm done. You think I'm done to
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: get out of here, like I'm good. And so he's
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: going he's asking questions like I'm not even getting a
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: time of day, Like I am not coming out of
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: this ball game. I'm going back out there to score
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: the ball game. It's five to one, like I'm in
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: this game. I'm not coming out of this game.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: I'm in it. And uh. So there was more.
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: Colorful language too, a few more a few more words
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: behind there as well to get my point across. And
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: uh so he goes back and said, you know, goes down,
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: says Louis, Louisvarro to sit down. And I was going
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: back out and I almost got through six. But uh yeah,
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: that was that. That that that interaction was really heated.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Max.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: Last year, you told us that playing with the Blue
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Jays just really reinvigorated you about being on a team
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: like you've been your whole life. It was so much fun.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: And then you told me a story of this spring
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: that a bunch of the starting pitchers and Ernie Clement
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: no surprise, went on a vacation in January.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: I found that odd.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Maybe I just don't understand what happens in January. But
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: explain what you Blue Jays started, what your Blue Jay
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: pictures did in January, where you went, and what you did.
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, our twenty twenty five Blue Jays team was awesome.
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: We were just a really tight knit group. Loved it
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: so much. And you know, to come up one click
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: shy of winning the World Series with that team something,
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: ah man, that just always will kill me because of
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: how good that team was, and you know, and so uh,
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: you know, when we're sitting in the off season, like
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: we just I couldn't believe that we didn't get to
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: have a chance to really true celebrate that year for
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: how good we were. And so we, you know, in
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: the off season, talk about doing a vacation, found a
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: way to do it, stuck a little time in but uh,
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: you know when you come out of the World Series,
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: like it's tight windows. I mean like you kids are
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: back in school everything, like like we couldn't really find
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: time like when because most of the time baseball players,
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: you're taking your vacation in November, Like we had no
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: time to plan in a vacation November, Like we just
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: got out of this. Like so we start talking about, like, hey,
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: can we do this in January? And so all this pitchers,
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: we were like, all right, if we're gonna do this,
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: what's let's take a trip. Uh you know, I'd been
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: the same parts a couple of times. I know it's
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: a cool, cool party spot. So I convinced everybody let's
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: go there.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: But I said, if we're gonna go and take it,
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: take a trip to the same parts in January. Like
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: we like that's my throwing, Like we have to throw
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: every single day, like because like like as soon as
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: January one comes around, that's when I'm starting, you know,
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: the real ramp up of my throwing progression. And like,
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: I mean, every day is basically scripted. I mean I
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: can tell you where if you I mean, I know
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: week one, week two, week three, week four, Like I
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: know exactly where I'm gonna be each week. And so
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: if we're gonna go in January, like, I am not
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: coming off script, Like I'm playing catch every day. And
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: you know, like we all agreed and we so we
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: all brought our gloves. It all came down there and uh,
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: you know, we definitely got to celebrate your time. So
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: you know, it felt like a way to be able
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: to celebrate twenty twenty five and at the same time,
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: you know, hangover or not, we're waking up. We played
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: catch every single day, so we got our work in,
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: kept her throwing going, and it got the party a
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: little bit more too.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: And you told me through footballs in the afternoon, is
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: that correct?
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm being on the beach.
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, a heck throwing program because yeah, we were throwing
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: baseballs in the morning. Uh, you know, getting some beach
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: time in and we're throwing the footballs on the beach
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: in the afternoon. So yeah, I mean we were just throwing.
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: It was like we were just kids again. We were
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: just throwing something all day long.
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: Well, Max, and obviously you return with the Blue Jays
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: this season, and I'm wearing a hat kind of as
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: an ode to you a little bit and I'll explain
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: you know, because you got the four kids, three of
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: them are girls, right, You're two oldest girls, so you
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: were solely a girl dad for a while. I am
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: a girl dad with a son on the way in June.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: But I as a father son podcast, I have to
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: I'm sure you've answered a million questions about it. But
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: your daughter's letter to the Blue Jays, Yeah, Brooklyn wrote
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: a letter Dad.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: You know this right.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's a great story.
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: Yes, I just as a father son show, we just
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: have to hear from your perspective.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what was it like?
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: You know, she said, we want to mail this to
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: the Blue Jays. When did you receive this letter? Did
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: he give it? Like tell us the whole thing please?
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: So this is you know, in December, when you know,
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: all the kids were writing, like you know, we're writing
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: letters with standing what we want for Christmas and so
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: you know, the kids had writen different letters, you know,
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: the stand in you know, we had mail them up
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: to the North Pole and everything. Uh and so now, uh,
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: Brooke comes down, she goes, I got a letter I
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: want to mail.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: To the Blue Jays and it's sealed. So we're kind
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: of like, that's kind of odd.
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: Once she goes to bed, you know, we like, this
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: isn't to the North Pole.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: We got we gotta so we open it and obviously
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: it's a letter.
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: We read it, you know, Eric and I we I
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: mean our heart smelled just reading this thing. And so
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: you know, at that point in time, we're like, my,
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: you know, what are we going to do? Like we
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: didn't know what to do. So we kind of hold
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: on to a letter. And next day, like Brooks like
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: ask you know, she keeps asking like, hey, did you
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: send that to the Blue Jays, And you know, we
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: keep kind of asking her about the letter and everything,
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: and uh like what you know, like it was it
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: was especially because it shows you like how how awesome
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: twenty twenty five was, you know, I say, you know
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: how good it was.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: For the players, but it was also great for the families.
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: Like Toronto Blue Jays do an amazing job taking care
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: of the families, uh and doing everything they can for
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: the wives and the kids, and so much knows that
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: my you know, my kids loved it so much and
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: uh you know how much it meant to them, and
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: you know, trying to explain you know, all the world
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: series run, trying to play for the trophy and how
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: much it also meant to my kids as well to see, uh,
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: you know, to be able to write that and uh,
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: you know, I finally once we signed, uh you know,
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: got back with the Blue Jays. You know, we got
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: to show the world this. You know how much uh
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: you know what twenty two meant to you know, my
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: whole family. Uh that that even my daughter was able
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: to write that note, and uh that I was so
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: happy to be back in Toronto.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: That is so cool.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: Max switching gears a little bit.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: You're good friends with Tony Battello, the new manager of
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: the Giants. Explain where that friendship came from and what
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: did you see in him that suggested he could be
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: a major league manager straight from college?
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and so so Tony Uh first, uh, you know,
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: he recruited me to the Zoo ended up being my
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: pitching coach at mi Zoo, and so you know in
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: my time, you know, he was always my coach at
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: missoom you know, got better and you know Missoo was
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: a huge, uh you know place kind of ground zero
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: for my career where I really took off.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: And you know, his fingerprints were all.
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: Over that of of having me a sen uh you know,
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: from coming into as a kind of a raw you know,
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: college prospect, of leaving as a first round draft pick,
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: like ready to get to the majors.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: You know, there was a major transformation.
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: That I was going on there, and he was kind
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: of at the front and center of it, along with
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: coach Byrd and some others there as well.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Uh, and so kind of after the years of.
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: Missou you know, it was actually some of my college buddies.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Uh, you know, we started getting together.
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: He's taking some trips together and we really, you know,
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: we really enjoyed our time there.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: We had a great group of individual people there.
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: At the time at Missoo, and so we you know,
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: kept his student trips and uh, everybody.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: Loved Tony, you know, and so.
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: You know, as kind of years went on, like I mean,
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: he was at the time, I mean, he was twenty
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: four when he first got that job. I was eighteen
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: when I came in, so he's only six years older
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: than me. Uh So as I got out of college,
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: like you know, we're kind of all friends. We're like,
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: hey called up, called Tony. We like and so you know,
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: Tony started coming around hanging out with us a little
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: bit more.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: It was it was finally fun. We could hang out
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: like a friend.
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: He wasn't coach anymore, and so you know just kind
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: of yeah, were always stay in touch.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: We always, uh we're friends. You know. I always knew,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: you know, you could coach.
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: And I was going from TCU to Arkansas, uh and
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: then obviously got the job at Tennessee, and uh, you know,
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: we all knew, all all of us, we all knew
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: that Tony was going to be a phenomenal college coach.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: And I mean.
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: Within a matter of time, I mean, he's got the
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: team in Omaha, and so like we we all knew
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: that he had that type of personality fire to be
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: able to have that type of success. And you know,
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: it was kind of coming up now even I think, really,
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: what kind of lay the groundway here is that Pat Murphy?
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: You know, went from college and he had started having success,
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: you know, with Milwaukee, and there was you know, kind
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: of rumblings, kind of off scenes, a goo that Tony.
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: Now teams are even thinking about Tony, And I got it, like,
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: I mean, this is you know, he's he's got the fire.
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: I mean, he's got the intensity, He's got the fire,
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: and so you know, I knew that's gonna play.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: At the major level. You know, whether he's gonna be
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: able to handle everything about it? Who knows? Then, no
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: one knows.
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: I mean, but he's got he's got the passion for
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: the game. And you know, players are always going to
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: feed off that. Uh and and so you know, the
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: other parts of the game are always going to learn,
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: you know, every you know, there's never a perfect managerial candidate.
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: You never known till you know, Uh, you know, I
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: played for Jim Lean. Jim Ly never played in the
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: major leagues, and yet I love Jen Leland. So there's
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: plenty there's plenty of cases here where not necessarily having played,
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: you can still be a great manager. And I think
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: Tony has all those qualities that you would want in
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: a manager.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: And so having you know, knowing him all this time
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: and seeing all.
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: The success he's had at every level and the guys
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: I just know, I know guys are gonna gravitate to him.
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: They're gonna love his style of baseball, and so, uh
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: you know, we're singing the Giants play, and you know
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: it's gonna be fun to watch this continue to happen.
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: I was gonna say, the Blue Jays, you guys are
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: traveling out to San Francisco right before the All Star break,
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: that'd be pretty fun to see Max Sures are on
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: the mound against That would be pretty special matchup for you, right, Yeah, No.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: It would be awesome. It would be It would be fun.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: You know, got all the respect in the world for him,
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: so I'm sure feeling is mutual.
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: But uh yeah, you know he's he's a competitor, so
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: that if that happens, I mean, we're gonna want to
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: our brothers.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: We're gonna we want to win, like it's gonna be on.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: It would be fun. Right.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: Couple last things, Max, you talked about Maszoo. It's a
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: great journalism school. How involved were you or how interested
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: were you in journalism when you went to that school.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: Were you aware of like great people come great journalists
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: come out of this school.
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean yeah, I was definitely aware of the
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: journalism school was, you know, really top notch. I wasn't
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: there for journalism, Max Jacchi, I'm more math, so you
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: kind of finance.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: So that was what I was studying when I was
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: in school.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: Well, well that is great, all right, Max. A couple
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: last things you. This is what I do for a living.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: You are the greatest player named Max in the history
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: of baseball. I have the All Max Team, Max Carey
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: an outfielders, a Hall of Famer.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: But when you retire, you will be the.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Greatest player named Max who's ever played the game, at
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: least in my opinion. Does this make you feel really good?
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Or do you think I'm an idiot for even coming
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: up with this?
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Well, at least I got something in that regard.
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: So hey, anytime I get sim Kurtsens and find a
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: way to come up with something like that, I'll always
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: take it.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: Oh God, well, Max, we could keep you all day,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: but you're a major league player. You got a game tonight,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: so we're not gonna take you any longer.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Today.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being such a good sport. Thanks for
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: talking hoops. Thanks for talking with Zoo. Thanks for talking everything,
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: and thanks for talking to my sun Jet.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate you guys. Thanks for having me on