Latest / The Delicious Culture with Jon Francois / You Can See Everything Is Delicious w/ Culture Alchemy

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You Can See Everything Is Delicious w/ Culture Alchemy · The Delicious Culture with Jon Francois

• 0:00
  How does a black woman end up in a Greek part
• 0:05
  of Toronto? I remember when I first met you,
• 0:09
  I was just like, what? He knew. I knew that question
• 0:12
  was going to come up. I mean, to be fair, you
• 0:15
  can ask me, like, oh, how does a black guy end
• 0:18
  up in rural ass Vermont? OK, so you're running
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  to urofficestaff .com. Once again, that is urofficestaff
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  .com. Hey, delishies, grab a plate and taste
• 1:15
  the delicious culture. I'm your host, John Francois.
• 1:17
  We're feasting on food, pop culture, and lifestyle
• 1:18
  with the host of the Culture Alchemy podcast,
• 1:22
  Antoinette Sarpong. Antoinette was kind enough
• 1:24
  to have me on her podcast. I think I have this
• 1:28
  visual memory correct. The release date was September
• 1:30
  13. Wow, that is amazing. I'm going to say yes.
• 1:35
  Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So I am so great with remembering
• 1:45
  the most little things. Now, granted, I mean,
• 1:49
  it was a great episode. It's definitely one for
• 1:51
  the ages. But like, my wife will get on me about
• 1:54
  like, oh, you don't remember that thing that
• 1:57
  I told you about our taxes, but you remember
• 1:59
  the dates that Leonardo Caprio said I do to this
• 2:03
  woman. Like, it's just my memory priorities get
• 2:07
  mixed up. Do you ever get like that, Antoinette,
• 2:09
  when you remember? things that are not as important.
• 2:14
  But they are important. They are important. That's
• 2:17
  the thing. Yes, I can totally relate. Yeah, especially
• 2:20
  like little factoids or for me, it's like maybe
• 2:23
  the vibe of a space. So I actually used to work
• 2:27
  with somebody in a corporate setting where we
• 2:31
  both went to a presentation. and we came back
• 2:34
  to home base. Then we had to tell our colleagues,
• 2:37
  how did the presentation go? It was like an outreach
• 2:39
  position. It was really interesting because this
• 2:44
  woman was so focused on what she could see, touch,
• 2:48
  taste, very much what was happening in the room,
• 2:52
  what color the client's shirt was. I couldn't
• 2:55
  tell you any of that. But I remember exactly
• 2:58
  the vibe. the energy, but maybe somebody said,
• 3:02
  which is a great thing to have for the podcast.
• 3:04
  It's like, you know, those things that kind of
• 3:06
  like, huh, I'm going to mark that. You know,
• 3:09
  it's just something about the emotional resonance
• 3:11
  of a space. I remember things like that, you
• 3:15
  know, or little things, quirks about people.
• 3:18
  Yeah. What's that classic saying like, oh, I
• 3:21
  can't remember what you said, but I remember
• 3:22
  how you made me feel. That's Maya Angelou. You
• 3:25
  know? Oh, was it? Was she the one that came up
• 3:28
  with that phrase? Isn't she the one who said
• 3:31
  that, like, people will never remember what you
• 3:32
  said, but they'll always remember how you made
• 3:34
  them feel? I didn't know that she was the originator
• 3:36
  of that. I wouldn't... People don't remember
• 3:39
  what you said, but they remember how you made
• 3:41
  them feel. No, I could be wrong. She may have
• 3:43
  popularized it, but definitely I remember she,
• 3:45
  at one point in time, was known for saying that.
• 3:47
  Is that an accurate Maya Angelou impression that
• 3:49
  I just did? Like, hey. Like, you know, because
• 3:51
  she had that, like, I rise. Like, hey. Like,
• 3:53
  she had that very, like, calm, like, sort of,
• 3:56
  hey, hey, hey. Like, the cup. Now you're going,
• 4:00
  you're veering into like a Bob Dylan -esque sort
• 4:02
  of like. Wasn't Bob Dylan -esque? Yeah, you know
• 4:06
  what? He's a man of many, many multitudes, Bob
• 4:09
  Dylan, so you know. Yeah, so Bob Dylan is still
• 4:12
  alive, right? He is. He's very much alive. Yeah.
• 4:15
  Because I literally was watching the country
• 4:17
  music documentary that Ken Burns produced for
• 4:19
  PBS. Very wonderful, by the way, because it's
• 4:21
  like this is a music format that I did not grow
• 4:24
  up with as a family coming from, you know, Haitian
• 4:28
  immigrants, Connecticut, pretty diverse. I mean,
• 4:31
  like, you know how it is. I mean, hip hop, R
• 4:33
  &B, like that's going to be in our lexicon. It's
• 4:36
  not until I moved into rural places like Iowa
• 4:39
  and here in Vermont that I became familiar with
• 4:41
  that whole country music vibe. And Bob Dylan,
• 4:44
  he plays a role in the country music documentary
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  because, you know, of the collaborations that
• 4:48
  he did with Johnny Cash and such. And I wonder
• 4:51
  if we're remembering Bob Dylan a lot more than
• 4:54
  we remember people like Maya Angelou, because
• 4:57
  like, Maya Angelou for me, whenever her name
• 4:59
  pops up in random conversation, it's like, oh
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  yeah, like when I was in school, middle school,
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  high school, whatever, like she was just there.
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  Like her books, like poetry, it was just there.
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  And then something seemed to happen when she
• 5:13
  died and I don't know, and I don't remember when
• 5:16
  that was, but it just seemed like there came
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  a certain point where maybe she seems forgotten
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  or am I wrong? Is she still like popping up in
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  the culture of more, more, more, more wonderful?
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  I don't know. Anthony, give me thoughts. That's
• 5:33
  such an interesting question, John, because I
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  think it depends. Like for context, I'm here
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  in Toronto, Canada. Yeah. So I. I feel like,
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  I don't know, I hear her name come up a lot,
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  just in the zeitgeist. But she's one of those
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  people that never really goes away, depending
• 5:48
  on the type of spaces you're in. Like, she's
• 5:50
  one of those people. Um, Bell Hooks, I hear her
• 5:53
  name come up a lot. That book, All About Love,
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  is always kind of around me. But then it makes
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  me wonder, like, what kind of circles am I in,
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  right? Like, I feel like Maya Angelou is just
• 6:04
  one of those people that she's just always kind
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  of there. Dolly Parton, always kind of there.
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  Like, they don't really go away. They're just
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  kind of there, you know, in the general zeitgeist.
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  And every once in a while, something will happen
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  or somebody will quote something like what we
• 6:18
  were just talking about. And then people remember,
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  oh yeah, right. And Oprah's, that's her, I think
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  her mentor, right? So... My angel? My angel is
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  someone she's always referencing as like, yeah.
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  So I hear it come up a lot, you know, she's quoted
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  constantly. I've seen her, like, occasionally
• 6:36
  on a meme or so online. And she died in 2014.
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  So... You know, it makes sense growing up in
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  school, like, you know, in the 90s and 2000s
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  and such. Like, she was pretty much a presence
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  in my libraries and my classrooms. I believe
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  she performed at Bill Clinton's either first
• 6:57
  or second inauguration. She did some poetry there.
• 7:00
  But now I want to know, because me here in America,
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  you in Canada, is there such a blossoming, more
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  bold focus on the art and poetry and such in
• 7:14
  Canada more so than America. Maybe that's what
• 7:17
  it is, because I think of Toronto and I think
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  of like, it does seem like the arts has a much
• 7:23
  more substantial meaning there. That's so interesting.
• 7:26
  Okay, so I think it depends on who you're gonna
• 7:29
  ask, but if you're asking me, which you are.
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  I'm going to say that, yeah, Toronto is, I know
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  sometimes debated because we do feel the city
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  becoming so expensive now that a lot of the artists
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  can no longer afford to live here and make art.
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  But the arts here are just the heartbeat of the
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  city. This is a very capitalist driven, like
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  hustle and grind, make your money type of city.
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  Really? Because again, it's... Other than Vancouver,
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  it is the most expensive city in the country.
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  So is it Canada's New York? Is that safe to say?
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  Toronto is Canada's New York. It is. I know that's
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  made me shiver a little bit to say, but yes.
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  Why? Do you have something against New York?
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  I love New York, and I think we love to stand
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  on our own, though. We are our own thing, but
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  it's very easy to compare to New York, and you're
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  right. It really is kind of similar to New York.
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  The multiculturalism, the arts and culture. I
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  mean, we have a lot of artists living here, but
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  what I... here is a lot of them are struggling
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  to stay in the city and do their thing because
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  of the cost of living. It's just so expensive
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  here. But yeah, the arts are always plentiful
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  here because the different cultures is a world
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  in one city. So like I'm in actually, to situate
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  myself for those who might be kind of familiar,
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  I'm in the Greek part of town. So we have the
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  East End. which has the Greek part of town, also
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  has Ethiopian community here at one point in
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  time, too. Like, it changes multiple times. Little
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  India's here. Like, there's just, everybody is
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  here. So because of that, you do get an amazing
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  culinary scene and also a lot of festivals, a
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  lot of cultural festivals. And so I think there's
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  a lot of arts happening here, but is it as plentiful
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  as it used to be? That might be up for debate.
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  That might be up for debate. I don't know. I
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  don't know. A lot of spaces are closing. So,
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  yeah. Can I ask a very, hopefully not rude question,
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  but just maybe it comes off as blundered. So,
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  okay. How does a black woman end up in a Greek
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  part of Toronto? I remember when I first met
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  you, I was just like, what? I knew that question
• 9:42
  was going to come up. Well, no, no. I mean, to
• 9:45
  be fair, you can ask me. Like, oh, how does a
• 9:47
  black guy end up in rural ass Vermont? I had
• 9:51
  that question parked. That question parked. I
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  will tell you my answer if you tell me yours
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  first. Yes. And I'll tell you mine in a way that
• 9:59
  is actually quite culturally just logical. I'll
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  tell you why. So, yeah, okay. So I am the daughter,
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  first born daughter of Ghanian immigrants. My
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  father came to this exact area. I'm sorry, when
• 10:18
  you say Ghanian, did you say Ghanian? Oh, sorry.
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  So Ghanian immigrants. Oh God. And so, yeah.
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  Okay, okay. The whole area basically is where
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  my father came when he came here in the 70s.
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  So he lived like a couple blocks away from me
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  when we first got here. Yeah. I was born here
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  in Toronto and we moved from Toronto when I was
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  around eight to a rural part of Ontario, the
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  province or state, if you will, where I live.
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  What makes your family choose Toronto, Canada
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  in general, from Ghana? Like what made them want
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  to choose that to immigrate? Yeah. Well, I mean,
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  I think that's a good question. Uncle was here.
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  So that was part of the reason my dad already
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  knew somebody that was here. That was the main
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  reason. But also when he was growing up in Ghana,
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  he had a French teacher and he was quite enamored
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  with French and he was actually interested going
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  to Quebec, but didn't speak French. So he wanted
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  to kind of come to Canada because he had idealized
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  Canada as this. It is, it's a wonderful country.
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  And at the time, he was able to come here because
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  he had my uncle here and because he also, you
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  know, felt some connection to the country because
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  of his studies when he was in Ghana. Yeah, he
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  chose to come here. But my family has kind of
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  gone everywhere. There's family in Australia,
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  there's family in the UK. I have family also
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  in the States. Like, I've got... family all over
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  the place. So we kind of move around. So the
• 11:42
  fact that I ended up here, well, it's because
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  I came back here for university. So I ended up
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  going to a university here in downtown Toronto
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  and ended up working in Toronto, but moved to
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  a number of different countries. When I came
• 11:57
  back to Toronto for post -grad studies, I just
• 12:02
  kind of, I was looking for a place that was affordable.
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  Um, that was close to green space that had a
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  community vibe. Um, I didn't want to live in
• 12:13
  sort of the downtown kind of core and I'd lived
• 12:16
  in the West end. And so I just ended up checking
• 12:19
  out the East end, meeting people in the East
• 12:22
  end and really just digging the vibe of the East
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  end, which is very, um. It's very eclectic. It's
• 12:28
  got an eclectic vibe. I mean, I'm looking out
• 12:30
  the window and I can actually kind of see the
• 12:33
  main street, if you will. And it's again, like
• 12:36
  a butcher, a baker, candlestick maker vibe. Some
• 12:40
  pubs, but it's also kind of got a family vibe
• 12:44
  and there's parks and it's really nice. Basically
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  coming to say that, I ended up just finding a
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  spot that felt like home. And then unbeknownst
• 12:52
  to me, it also ended up that... my father, when
• 12:55
  he came down to kind of see, you know, help me
• 12:57
  move in and see my place, was like, oh, I literally
• 12:59
  just lived two blocks away when I first got to
• 13:02
  Canada. So the place had a real connection for
• 13:04
  him too. So it's interesting how places can do
• 13:07
  that for you. They just kind of, they could feel
• 13:09
  like home and yeah, this part of town just feels
• 13:11
  like home. What countries were you living in
• 13:14
  prior to having your home base in Toronto? And
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  also did it feel... chaotic bouncing from country
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  to country. Or maybe it was, you look back on
• 13:26
  it and that's a wonderful diversified, varied
• 13:30
  experience going from country to country. Can
• 13:32
  you tell me more about that? Yeah. Well, the
• 13:34
  countries, Japan, Korea, Ghana, a couple of times.
• 13:41
  Sydney, so Australia. Yeah, those are the ones
• 13:45
  that I lived in, Burkina Faso. Was it like more
• 13:50
  for your parents' work or just like they wanted
• 13:52
  lifestyle changes frequently? No. Actually, my
• 13:55
  parents are total homebodies. Really? They don't
• 13:58
  travel at all. I'm one of the only... So, I'm
• 14:01
  the eldest of three. I'm really the only one
• 14:03
  who has... Oh, so this was individually you traveling
• 14:06
  to all these countries. Yes. Oh, never mind.
• 14:07
  I thought it was the family thing. Okay. No,
• 14:10
  not at all. That makes sense. I had gone to Ghana
• 14:13
  with my parents as a child. They took me there
• 14:15
  as well. But most of my traveling was through
• 14:18
  work. It was actually when I was working as a
• 14:19
  journalist, I got the chance to travel quite
• 14:21
  a bit. Then I also taught ESL. That's why I was
• 14:25
  in Japan and Korea. English as a technical language,
• 14:28
  correct? Yeah, that's right. That's right. So
• 14:31
  I mean, when you're Doing that as well. You get
• 14:34
  to travel a lot because you get a lot of vacation
• 14:36
  time Yeah, and so I just I don't know I got the
• 14:40
  travel bug very early and even when I was a teenager
• 14:43
  I would often like leave my small kind of rural
• 14:46
  town and go and do like, you know programs I'd
• 14:49
  go do like exchange programs. So apply for because
• 14:52
  I didn't come from a lot of money We weren't
• 14:55
  exactly, you know destitute, but at the same
• 14:57
  time My father worked in the automotive industry,
• 15:00
  so GM, right? And it was always kind of, you
• 15:04
  know, that kind of work is very, can be precarious.
• 15:07
  Um, my, my feeling growing up was that we had
• 15:10
  what we needed, but there was still a feeling
• 15:12
  of scarcity of you got to save, which is very
• 15:14
  much like the immigrant sort of, you know, way,
• 15:17
  right? And, um, so I think, yeah, I think for
• 15:20
  me, it was like, I was very focused, uh, on really
• 15:23
  honestly working hard. getting good grades. And
• 15:26
  then a lot of the times I would apply for these
• 15:28
  like exchange programs or scholarship programs
• 15:31
  to kind of leave my town. It was a predominantly
• 15:34
  white town and it was a very small town. So growing
• 15:38
  up, I went through many stages with my hometown
• 15:42
  because of course I did experience bullying,
• 15:45
  racial bullying, and it was difficult. But at
• 15:48
  the same time... to kind of get back to a question
• 15:51
  you asked earlier, the bouncing around, I actually
• 15:53
  think it builds a little bit of resilience. For
• 15:56
  me, I found it liberating. But because I chose
• 15:59
  to do it, I had the agency. It wasn't like I
• 16:02
  was, the movement was forced upon me. For me,
• 16:05
  it was, in many cases, you know, you could say
• 16:10
  people might travel for a variety of reasons,
• 16:13
  but when I was teaching English as a second language,
• 16:16
  something that I often heard people say is that,
• 16:18
  Some of us were looking for something when we
• 16:22
  left, and some of us were maybe running from
• 16:25
  something. Yeah, right. Right, this idea of why
• 16:29
  are you moving around? And you were looking for
• 16:31
  something or running? Probably looking, probably
• 16:34
  looking. Yeah, probably looking. But honestly,
• 16:37
  hindsight's 20 -20, probably a little bit of
• 16:39
  both, a healthy dash of both, right? Because
• 16:41
  I really feel like for me, I really... discovered
• 16:47
  a lot about myself through travel. I met amazing
• 16:51
  people. I developed confidence. I learned new
• 16:54
  languages. Like those are things that if I'd
• 16:57
  stay, there's nothing wrong staying in your hometown,
• 16:59
  you know, flourishing, you know, right? Right
• 17:02
  where you started. But for me, that was not going
• 17:03
  to be the case. Yeah. So I felt like. Honestly,
• 17:08
  traveling is such a privilege. I feel blessed
• 17:10
  to have been able to do it. And I'm just really
• 17:13
  curious. So I loved being able to go and see
• 17:17
  how different people live. I'm just, yeah, there's
• 17:20
  no way that I can ever feel like there's an end
• 17:23
  in sight for me with that. I have a home base
• 17:25
  now. I think, yeah, I travel a lot less frequently.
• 17:29
  Does that make you uneasy? No, I wouldn't say
• 17:31
  uneasy. I wouldn't say uneasy. I mean, I think
• 17:35
  moving around all the time, you know, it's just,
• 17:38
  that's tiring too, in a way, you know? That's
• 17:41
  tiring too. And I think it's also, well, I should,
• 17:44
  I'm 45. I just turned 45. And so for me, it's
• 17:48
  like, I've actually found it interesting going
• 17:50
  back to my hometown now, that I find it to be
• 17:53
  a really peaceful thing to go back. Really? I
• 17:55
  do. I do, because it's more, it's the countryside.
• 17:58
  It's kind of more like, I'm in the city, so I'm
• 18:01
  in the hustle and the bustle. And I really love.
• 18:04
  the things that the city kind of provides, the
• 18:06
  food and the circus. But I also really appreciate,
• 18:08
  you know, going back to where I came from and
• 18:11
  just kind of enjoying the silence, enjoying the
• 18:13
  green space, enjoying, like, just being, just
• 18:16
  being. Because I feel like we're human beings,
• 18:19
  but we're always doing. We're always doing. And
• 18:22
  so I feel like, yeah, just being able to sit
• 18:26
  for a bit and be with my own thoughts and be
• 18:28
  with myself is something that I don't think it
• 18:32
  was something I could easily do. You know, like
• 18:35
  in my 20s for sure. And even my 30s, probably
• 18:39
  I was over scheduling myself. I was running around.
• 18:42
  I was, you know, living an amazing life, but
• 18:45
  also, you know, all that running around made
• 18:48
  me wonder like, hmm, if I just stop and sit for
• 18:50
  a minute with myself, yeah, can I do that? And
• 18:53
  actually probably couldn't have done that very
• 18:56
  well. Now I can and I really kind of enjoy it.
• 18:59
  So yeah, having a little bit more stability,
• 19:02
  it's a lot sexier to me now. But at the same
• 19:04
  time, I'm not really somebody that will ever
• 19:07
  stop traveling. I'm always thinking about that
• 19:10
  next place I can go visit. But now that next
• 19:12
  place could be another neighborhood in Toronto
• 19:14
  as well. You're thinking, you're thinking whatever
• 19:18
  that next place is, it will likely still be in
• 19:21
  Canada. Well, I just meant literally in terms
• 19:23
  of being a tourist in my own city, like just
• 19:25
  going and checking out new places in my own city.
• 19:27
  I do that a lot too. Just go and try a new place.
• 19:30
  Just being in a new environment, just within.
• 19:34
  But in terms of, is there another move? I do
• 19:36
  feel there's probably another move, but I'm not
• 19:38
  quite sure where it would be just yet. I'm not
• 19:40
  quite sure. John Francois here from the Delicious
• 19:46
  Culture Podcast, where we have the most entertaining,
• 19:49
  delicious food, pop culture and lifestyle conversations
• 19:53
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  delicious culture through PayPal and Venmo. Once
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  again, at the delicious culture through PayPal
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  or Venmo. Any donation is much appreciated. Thank
• 20:37
  you. How do you get a English as a second language
• 20:45
  job? Like what kind of qualifications or prep
• 20:48
  do you have to go to to get that job? And then,
• 20:51
  you know, that leads into all the wonderful traveling
• 20:53
  that you've done. Yeah. How do you do it? I mean,
• 20:57
  I think now you could probably go online and,
• 21:00
  you know, just do a course online and get a certificate
• 21:03
  pretty painlessly. The way that I did it was...
• 21:07
  Because it would have to take like understanding
• 21:09
  of the... language of the foreigner that you're
• 21:13
  trying to teach English to. So there has to be
• 21:15
  a certain degree of patience and bilingual or
• 21:18
  trilingual knowledge, right? I mean, there's
• 21:20
  a lot that has to go into it. Not really. No?
• 21:24
  Why? How? I mean, listen, I'll tell you what.
• 21:26
  I'm not good at languages besides English. That
• 21:27
  would be hard for me. I'll tell you what. I don't
• 21:30
  know. Why did I have this feeling? I thought
• 21:32
  that you have taught ESL somewhere, right? No.
• 21:37
  Why? It's giving. I have trouble teaching English
• 21:38
  to myself. How would I teach English to anybody
• 21:41
  else? I don't know why. You just give off that
• 21:43
  vibe of someone who's taught English. No, no,
• 21:46
  no. I probably should, because I come from, again,
• 21:50
  I come from a family of Haitian immigrants, Creole
• 21:51
  or French, but I was too lazy to actually learn
• 21:55
  the language when it was given to me as an opportunity
• 21:57
  to learn it. So, sure, there was potential to,
• 22:01
  I don't know, go to Haiti or France or whatever
• 22:03
  and do ESL, but... One, that was just never in
• 22:07
  my interest as a job feel. And two, I just, I
• 22:09
  think of learning a new language as like building
• 22:12
  a car from scratch. It just seems like, how do
• 22:15
  you do words and letters and numbers and stuff?
• 22:17
  Like, you know, cause to me it just seems a lot
• 22:19
  easier to just naturally grow up with a language
• 22:22
  rather than like, oh crap, I'm like 34 and I
• 22:25
  got to learn a new language from scratch. But
• 22:27
  anyway, go ahead. How do you learn, how do you
• 22:29
  become an ESL extraordinaire like you have been?
• 22:32
  Yes. I mean, the way that I went about it is
• 22:36
  I did a volunteer program when I was 16 years
• 22:42
  old. Yeah. Oh, no, wait a minute. Was I 16? Okay,
• 22:45
  no, I was 18 or 19. And this program, it was
• 22:49
  eight months. All right. And you spend half the
• 22:54
  time in another part of Canada, living with a
• 22:57
  host family. and another participant from another
• 23:01
  country, from the host country. This is the training
• 23:03
  program or this or is this? This is this is a
• 23:07
  cultural exchange that I did just, you know,
• 23:10
  for shits and giggles. Yeah. Because this is
• 23:11
  like what I love to do. Like I love to doing
• 23:13
  that kind of stuff. But I did like summer language
• 23:15
  programs. You know, I would do like so it's I
• 23:18
  just had a fascination with other cultures and
• 23:21
  learning languages. And this was one of the ways
• 23:23
  I could do it is that I mean, I couldn't necessarily
• 23:26
  afford to go and travel on my own. But when I
• 23:30
  was 18, 19, I had a teacher who taught me world
• 23:33
  issues in high school. And he kind of put me
• 23:35
  onto this organization he used to work for. And
• 23:38
  he was saying that they basically pay for youth
• 23:41
  to go and have these cultural exchanges in different
• 23:44
  parts of Canada and in parts of the world, with
• 23:47
  the idea being that you come back. to Canada
• 23:49
  and bring all of these new skills and understandings
• 23:52
  and perspectives of other cultures to enrich
• 23:55
  in our country, right? So I did this program
• 23:58
  and I ended up going to Quebec, which is the
• 24:03
  Francophone province in Canada. And then I went
• 24:07
  to Burkina Faso, which is a landlocked country
• 24:12
  in Western Africa, which is north of Ghana. And
• 24:15
  so yes, and so I lived in Burkina Faso for about
• 24:19
  four months. And my job, because you volunteer
• 24:22
  somewhere in the community, was to teach English.
• 24:25
  I spoke English. And so that was the qualification
• 24:29
  at the time. But yeah, so I taught English to
• 24:33
  primary school students and phys ed. And it was,
• 24:36
  I loved it. I loved it. So I ended up later on,
• 24:41
  down the road in my twenties, I wanted to, you
• 24:44
  know, travel again, and I wanted to also, you
• 24:48
  know, eat, pay my rent. And so I thought, OK,
• 24:52
  how can I do all of that? Well, I really enjoyed
• 24:54
  working with kids. I really liked teaching. Maybe
• 24:57
  I can go do that. I had a friend, the same same
• 25:01
  exchange program that I did, you know. So at
• 25:03
  this point now, I'm I don't know, I'm my early
• 25:06
  20s and I kept in touch with the same the same
• 25:09
  dude who did the same program of me. He was now
• 25:12
  in Japan. and they were looking for teachers
• 25:15
  in Japan. And he called me and said, hey, you
• 25:17
  should come to Japan. And so I went and did like
• 25:22
  a six month ESL training course. But you can
• 25:25
  do this in any number of ways, right? You can
• 25:28
  also just go to those places and then sometimes
• 25:30
  find jobs based on, you know, just honestly being
• 25:35
  from another country and having another language.
• 25:36
  Like there is a very, very, very, very strong,
• 25:40
  you know, like ESL English as a second language
• 25:44
  kind of private side racket if you want to. There
• 25:48
  is. I've seen foreigners go over there and they
• 25:50
  become models. They become spokespeople. They
• 25:54
  become. So it's the double edged sword, I guess,
• 25:56
  of being the foreigner in that context. But you
• 25:58
  can actually go there. And by there, for me,
• 26:01
  it was Japan. But I think this translated to
• 26:03
  Korea as well. That there was. Just a lot of
• 26:07
  people want to learn English. We are very lucky
• 26:09
  to speak English. Okay, so you're being tasked
• 26:12
  to go to somewhere in West Africa or Japan to
• 26:16
  teach people their English. Where do you begin?
• 26:20
  That is the thing that would frighten me. Like,
• 26:24
  how, what correct, like, okay, day one, am I
• 26:27
  saying one, two, three, four, five? This is the
• 26:31
  word dog, this is the word cat. Like, where,
• 26:33
  because in the English language, as you know,
• 26:35
  It's so dense. There's so much to learn. How
• 26:39
  do you begin? Yeah. I mean, I think in the case
• 26:43
  of the Burkina Faso gig, it was more greetings.
• 26:46
  I think they managed their expectations. Like
• 26:48
  in the four months I was going to be with these
• 26:50
  kids, you know, in grade two or three, they weren't
• 26:52
  going to be writing dissertations. So I, you
• 26:54
  know, was basically managing their expectations
• 26:57
  around like numbers, colors. And I think just
• 27:01
  being able to... say basic greetings as well.
• 27:05
  Hi. Yeah, yeah, hi. Hello, my name is, goodbye,
• 27:09
  one, two, simple things like that. But then even
• 27:12
  in Japan, it depends on who you're working with.
• 27:17
  I was working with little kids where it was literally
• 27:20
  singing and dancing and just getting them used
• 27:22
  to hearing English because kids are such sponges.
• 27:25
  They can learn languages so quickly when they're
• 27:29
  young. putting them in that immersion experience.
• 27:33
  Then I sometimes had cases where you go to the
• 27:36
  school. Like I worked at the McDonald's of English
• 27:39
  teaching schools for a period of time when I
• 27:41
  first got to Japan because it literally was like
• 27:43
  every corner that was one of these English schools.
• 27:45
  It was a school called Nova that is no longer
• 27:49
  in business. It was actually run. It was kind
• 27:52
  of like the we work of English teaching schools.
• 27:55
  It had a lot of problems. And I think it also
• 28:00
  was one of those really, really, really fun places
• 28:03
  as well. I got to work with people from all over
• 28:05
  the world. But the thing is like, we were given
• 28:07
  books and we were given very prescriptive, um,
• 28:11
  like ways of teaching it. So, you know, you,
• 28:14
  you figure it out though, too. I think, um, I
• 28:17
  don't know, just the way I learned a language,
• 28:18
  I just kind of started with my name. I started
• 28:21
  with, in many cases, like going to the pub. learning
• 28:23
  how to like order food, order drink. That's usually
• 28:26
  like one of the ways that I learn when I go to
• 28:28
  a new place is go to a pub, go to a bar. It doesn't
• 28:32
  have to be about the drinking so much. It's just
• 28:34
  being in a place where people are open to possibly
• 28:37
  actually talking to other people. And in a lot
• 28:39
  of other countries, it's changing a little bit
• 28:43
  here, but in a lot of other countries I've been
• 28:45
  drawn to, there's a collective vibe where you're
• 28:48
  not just sitting alone at your individual table.
• 28:50
  It's like, it's a, it's a communal vibe. So that's
• 28:53
  where I actually learned a lot of, you know,
• 28:56
  local language is just sitting and literally
• 28:58
  breaking bread with people. It was the best way.
• 29:01
  Yeah. Did you, did you mention doing ESL for
• 29:04
  physical education? Is that what you? I did.
• 29:08
  I was like at ESL slash. phys ed assistant at
• 29:12
  this, uh, the school that I was at. Yeah. Cause
• 29:14
  I'm thinking like, wait, if she's teaching English
• 29:16
  and also teaching you like jumping jacks and,
• 29:18
  and basketball at the same time, like calisthenics.
• 29:21
  Yeah. Yeah. Wait, wait. Tell me more about that.
• 29:24
  Well, you know, and again, my qualifications
• 29:27
  here, I have to say, were basically that I could
• 29:30
  play football. There was a recess period. That's
• 29:34
  what it was. It was basically like playing with
• 29:36
  the kids. Like, you're not teaching them, but
• 29:38
  you're basically, you're just playing with them.
• 29:41
  And so, yeah, that's what I mean by phys ed.
• 29:47
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• 29:49
  that the phone always rings at the worst possible
• 29:52
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• 29:59
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  It'll check your calendar and even books estimates
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  near jobs you already have that day. The details
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  will all be texted to you. You don't have to
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  worry about it. Your office staff takes care
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  of the texts, the emails. It's only 99 bucks
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  a month. Even better if you try it out your first
• 30:23
  month. is only $10. Go to urofficestaff .com.
• 30:28
  Once again, that is urofficestaff .com. So we
• 30:35
  have that background and give me that trajectory.
• 30:40
  Like, how are we getting from this part of your
• 30:42
  life to say where we are right now, where I know
• 30:47
  you as the fantastic host of the Culture Alchemy
• 30:50
  Podcast. Um, tell us how you got there, what
• 30:54
  the podcast is about. Just, just give me that,
• 30:56
  um, that horse carriage ride of a story, if you
• 31:00
  will. Okay. Okay. Yeah. How did you get there?
• 31:05
  Well, like at the end of the day, I would say,
• 31:08
  um, I ended up back in Canada after many years
• 31:12
  of traveling for both business and pleasure.
• 31:15
  And I wanted to be close to family again. Um,
• 31:18
  and I, I think. You know, I ended up doing a
• 31:22
  bunch of different things, like public relations.
• 31:25
  I ended up working again in the not -for -profit
• 31:28
  sector, sort of running the very programs that
• 31:31
  I had done as a youth, right? But eventually,
• 31:34
  eventually I ended up where I am now through
• 31:38
  working communications gigs. I work for a science
• 31:42
  museum. So I actually do, yeah. So I do communications.
• 31:47
  and transformation work like change management
• 31:50
  for communications department of a science museum.
• 31:53
  It's an interesting role. But at the core of
• 31:56
  it, it's again about curiosity. Like everybody
• 32:00
  here, our mission is really to spread curiosity.
• 32:03
  So it's not hard to see why I would then think,
• 32:08
  okay, you know, I'm spending my day writing messaging.
• 32:12
  you know, in a kind of corporate space. For me,
• 32:15
  being able to create is something that gives
• 32:17
  me a lot of freedom. So I've always been writing.
• 32:20
  I've always been working in the arts in some
• 32:23
  way. But podcasting was something that I always
• 32:25
  just enjoyed as a, you know, like someone who
• 32:28
  was a consumer of podcasts. But, you know, I
• 32:32
  had this journalism background. I was thinking
• 32:34
  about something that I could do to also just
• 32:39
  actually have these conversations with friends
• 32:41
  and kind of take them to a community place. I'm
• 32:43
  always thinking about how can I involve other
• 32:45
  people in what I'm doing. And I had a friend
• 32:47
  in Toronto who was just talking to me one day
• 32:50
  about something pop culture related. Um, I don't
• 32:54
  even remember what it was at this time. I think
• 32:55
  we were just listening to records at his place
• 32:56
  drinking wine. And, and we just looked at each
• 32:58
  other and said, this should be a podcast. So
• 33:01
  it's like, okay, well why not? So of course,
• 33:04
  what do you do with that? Absolutely nothing
• 33:06
  for like two years. You sit on that, you don't
• 33:08
  do anything. And then, uh, yeah, what happened
• 33:11
  is I ended up, um, matching with somebody on
• 33:15
  Hinge who ended up. That dating app is magic.
• 33:19
  That's how me and my wife met. So don't, don't,
• 33:21
  don't, don't, don't play. How did that turn out?
• 33:23
  Interesting. Terrible. But I did get a podcast.
• 33:27
  Wait, sidetrack and then we'll get back to your
• 33:28
  story. Why did it turn terrible if you don't
• 33:30
  mind sharing? No, no, I wouldn't say it's terrible,
• 33:32
  but I'd say that like we ended up just being
• 33:36
  friends. And I, mostly I would say I was friend
• 33:39
  zoned, but. It was okay because we ended up having
• 33:42
  a really good synergy and we started podcasting
• 33:45
  together. But we ultimately wanted to do different
• 33:48
  things. So like I ended up doing my own thing.
• 33:50
  But by doing that, I ended up finding my own
• 33:53
  voice and finding my own rhythm. And it's, yeah,
• 33:56
  you know, it's been really, really interesting
• 33:59
  to see like left my own devices as well. What's
• 34:01
  come of the podcast. It's actually taking me
• 34:05
  right back to my buddy's place, you know, in
• 34:09
  his apartment. listening to records and just
• 34:12
  drinking wine. It's like the conversations I'm
• 34:15
  having now are really, I think, helping me to
• 34:19
  connect with not just other people, really interesting
• 34:22
  people, but actually really connecting with myself.
• 34:26
  Like being able to put myself out there, being
• 34:28
  able to also just get a better understanding
• 34:32
  of, you know, my own core values and beliefs
• 34:36
  and how I am viewing this channel that I'm running,
• 34:40
  Culture Alchemy, it's really about looking at
• 34:43
  something like what seems like a very frivolous
• 34:46
  pop culture item, and then like Alchemy would
• 34:49
  suggest, finding that kind of beautiful kernel
• 34:53
  of truth or insight in it. Because I really think
• 34:56
  pop culture is a mirror and often reflects back
• 35:00
  at us whatever we project at it, oftentimes what
• 35:04
  is going on in society. For example, You know,
• 35:09
  here in Canada, we have a university called University
• 35:13
  of Toronto. It's fairly well known. I've had
• 35:16
  an opportunity to talk to a number of people
• 35:19
  from U of T. But most recently, I talked to a
• 35:23
  guy who is a scholar in vampirism. So he's a
• 35:28
  vampire scholar. What does that mean exactly?
• 35:31
  It means that he spent the better part of his
• 35:36
  adult life consuming everything that he could
• 35:40
  on vampires to become an expert on... Basically,
• 35:44
  the evolution of vampires. So he could go to
• 35:47
  a school and get some degree or certification
• 35:49
  and say, OK, this is what I do for a living.
• 35:52
  This is my career. I can make money talking to
• 35:54
  you about vampires. He teaches it. He teaches
• 35:57
  it. It's a course at the school. It's his dissertation.
• 36:01
  It's his PhD work. And so I bring that up because
• 36:05
  I think one of the things that really brought
• 36:07
  me joy as a child. And I know this because my
• 36:11
  mom has told me this many times, is I've always
• 36:13
  been curious, I've always loved learning. I'm
• 36:16
  just curious about learning about different cultures,
• 36:18
  about people's stories and storytelling. And
• 36:21
  she was like, you were always very curious and
• 36:22
  always like to read stories. And she was also
• 36:25
  telling me, like I would sit down and like, I'd
• 36:28
  put like dolls in the room and I would read stories
• 36:30
  to them. So hello, teacher. Like there's something
• 36:33
  in the ability to sit and listen to people when
• 36:38
  they privilege you with their story. that I find
• 36:40
  so, so, so compelling. So the podcast is actually
• 36:43
  really an extension of what I've always been
• 36:45
  doing, John. And even as a journalist, like getting
• 36:47
  to talk to people and hear their stories. And
• 36:51
  now I get to do the same thing, but now I'm kind
• 36:54
  of doing it in a different space. And because
• 36:57
  I can do it online, it's allowed me to talk to
• 37:00
  so many interesting people. So yeah, culture
• 37:02
  alchemy has been a real blessing. It came from,
• 37:05
  yeah, a very random conversation through an unsuccessful
• 37:08
  hinge date. But still, it helped me to birth
• 37:11
  something that's, yeah, it's put me here in this
• 37:15
  room today talking to you. All right, so you're
• 37:19
  like me and you're like, I need to have a podcast
• 37:22
  with people I can talk to so I don't feel so
• 37:24
  lonely and weird. But you don't know. where to
• 37:28
  find guest after guest after guest. You're like
• 37:31
  me, maybe you're releasing a podcast episode
• 37:34
  once a week, twice a week. It is a consistent
• 37:37
  beast that needs to be fed. And that's where
• 37:40
  pod match comes in. Pod match. gives you a wide
• 37:44
  pool of guests to choose from based on your specific
• 37:47
  type of podcasts, based on the specific type
• 37:50
  of guests you're looking for. They give you three
• 37:52
  matches every single day to choose from. And
• 37:55
  guess what? You publicly release those interviews.
• 37:58
  You get paid from pod match as long as of course
• 38:01
  you prove it. Don't, don't be, you know, uh,
• 38:05
  talking to yourself and claiming that you talk
• 38:07
  to Bob Johnson from the milk company when it's
• 38:12
  just you, scammer. Podmatch. Get paid to release
• 38:18
  interviews from guests found through their platform.
• 38:21
  Join Podmatch using the link in my show notes.
• 38:26
  And maybe you've already kind of answered this
• 38:29
  question I'm about to ask, but the way that you
• 38:32
  dissect a a pop culture character, if you will.
• 38:38
  Like, I listened to your episode the other day
• 38:39
  on Dennis Reynolds, the character from It's Always
• 38:42
  Sunny in Philadelphia. Yeah. And look, I've never
• 38:46
  watched the show. I've heard so much about it.
• 38:48
  I think I got a cousin in Connecticut that's
• 38:50
  a big fan of the show. I know it's been running
• 38:51
  for a long time. But the way you're like, all
• 38:55
  right, this one character, narcissist, traumatized,
• 39:00
  let's break it down. Let's get a psychologist.
• 39:04
  Again, it just evokes and I don't even know if
• 39:07
  you found this to be a compliment or not because
• 39:09
  you gave me a thumbs up reaction on email so
• 39:12
  maybe like you didn't like it, but Again, I just
• 39:15
  get a very NPR pop culture journalist like let's
• 39:20
  take a deep dive and have a take that Like certainly
• 39:24
  people magazine or e -news is not gonna have
• 39:27
  on this pop culture phenomenon. So Listening
• 39:33
  to an episode like that I just wonder, like,
• 39:35
  oh, okay, is she approaching it from the vantage
• 39:37
  point of, like, oh, like, I have an idea of how
• 39:41
  to analyze this character and I want to do it,
• 39:44
  or is a lot of it, this is what's going on in
• 39:46
  the culture, it's always sunny in Philadelphia,
• 39:48
  people are talking about it, so let me try to
• 39:51
  find my unique take on it. Does that make sense?
• 39:54
  Absolutely it does. Yeah. And, um, well, I guess
• 39:58
  first off, yeah, the... Dennis Reynolds episode.
• 40:01
  So that came to be because I am a long time fan
• 40:06
  of the show. It's the longest running actually
• 40:09
  series, like live action anyways. Other than
• 40:12
  Simpsons, the longest running in television history.
• 40:15
  So yeah, and there's something enduring about
• 40:18
  a show that's about complete degenerates. Like
• 40:21
  why would people watch this show? So to me already,
• 40:24
  hmm. There's something interesting there. So
• 40:29
  I personally look at whenever my Curiosity is
• 40:33
  there whenever I have a question about something
• 40:35
  and yet I did that show because It's Always Sunny
• 40:39
  is my favorite show. It had just recently come
• 40:41
  back on the air. And on the channel, I do often
• 40:45
  talk to a number of different experts about relationships
• 40:49
  or about psychology. I'm also a training psychotherapist,
• 40:54
  so there's that. So I'm looking at things from
• 40:56
  a psychodynamic lens often. And I'm more interested
• 41:00
  in, if you think of like that iceberg, the classic
• 41:03
  iceberg. It's not just, okay, something's in
• 41:07
  Zeitgeist, cool, but why? And what does it say
• 41:10
  about us that's in Zeitgeist? For example, have
• 41:13
  you seen, you can see everything yet? No, and
• 41:17
  that's, and this was in my notes. I saw your
• 41:21
  episode on it. And fittingly enough, my wife
• 41:25
  and I, like the first we have ever heard of it
• 41:27
  or seen it or whatever, we saw a trailer for
• 41:31
  it on our way to seeing Primetime. by the same
• 41:34
  director. And we didn't know what to make of
• 41:37
  it, because, like, all we saw was just, oh, these
• 41:40
  are two people talking very slowly, giving each
• 41:43
  other these glances. It just had a very sort
• 41:47
  of, like, bachelor, like, this is the moment
• 41:50
  where you find out if the couple is going to
• 41:53
  move on and if he's going to break her heart.
• 41:55
  It's intense. There's closeups. Like, it was
• 41:57
  just, there was no context for it. It was just,
• 41:59
  I guess Elizabeth Holmes and Nathan Fielder,
• 42:01
  is this the moment that I'm referencing? Um,
• 42:05
  so I guess that, yeah, that leads into my next
• 42:07
  question. Is it worth the hype? Because from
• 42:10
  what little I know, it's based on the real life
• 42:12
  story of this woman who was, uh, quite the fraudster.
• 42:16
  That is correct. Yeah. Elizabeth Holmes, uh,
• 42:20
  you know, of, um, Theranos infamy at this point,
• 42:24
  right? She had that machine, could run multiple
• 42:27
  tests with a single drop of blood. Uh, she's
• 42:30
  known for that kind of like. uh, kind of a hypnotic
• 42:33
  sort of non -blinking stare and, um, defrauded,
• 42:37
  of course, you know, many, many, many people,
• 42:39
  um, to become kind of the, uh, the next big thing
• 42:43
  in Silicon Valley, right? So we love to take
• 42:45
  people down when they're, they're on high. So
• 42:48
  I think that's one thing that makes her such
• 42:50
  a compelling figure, um, which is one reason
• 42:53
  why I think the film is amazing. But I, as you
• 42:56
  said, I've spoken about this film. I've had so
• 42:59
  many conversations with friends. It is worth.
• 43:01
  It is worth the drive to the cinema. John, you
• 43:05
  must see it in the cinema because this is one
• 43:07
  that I think you need to see with an audience.
• 43:09
  Good luck convincing my wife, because I think
• 43:11
  it's three hours, right? And we're very much
• 43:14
  like, oh, if it's longer than two hours, it might
• 43:17
  be a home streamer. Listen, I hear that. I hear
• 43:20
  that. And honestly, if you can find a theater
• 43:22
  that has the recliner situation, you won't regret
• 43:26
  that choice. But we'll fall asleep, because it'll
• 43:28
  be so comfortable. That's true, too. That's why
• 43:31
  I don't go for it, because of the risk, right?
• 43:33
  But it flies by. It flies by. And I mean, that's
• 43:37
  a testament to also the direction. actor as well,
• 43:40
  like you just mentioned Lance Oppenheim having
• 43:42
  what a crazy year he's having with Primetime
• 43:45
  as well. This movie, though, it's the reason
• 43:47
  why I bring it up is because I think it's it's
• 43:50
  OK. It's it's it's crushing at the box office.
• 43:52
  And, you know, obviously we can review it subjectively.
• 43:56
  But objectively, this movie, I think the culture
• 44:00
  alchemy of this movie is that this movie is doing
• 44:03
  well now. It could only do well now because of
• 44:07
  the convergence of Nathan Fielder being the person
• 44:11
  at the center. Okay. And why is he up there?
• 44:14
  Because of what little I know of Nathan Fielder.
• 44:16
  He's a comedian. Like, what role does he have
• 44:19
  in this documentary? Because again, I'm hearing
• 44:21
  little conversation here and there. Oh, you can
• 44:22
  see everything. I made a lot of money. Comedian
• 44:24
  Nathan Fielder is a part of it. I'm like, wait,
• 44:26
  what? A documentary about this fraudster and
• 44:28
  the comedians? Like, can you give me the context
• 44:30
  of how Nathan Fielder factors into this? Yeah.
• 44:33
  Well, Nathan Fielder, for those who may not know,
• 44:35
  is a good Canadian boy. He's from Vancouver.
• 44:37
  Where is he? Yeah, he is. And he's sort of, you
• 44:39
  might know him from a lot of, like, he was kind
• 44:42
  of hanging out with that Seth Rogen crew. He
• 44:43
  was a disaster artist as well. He had a show
• 44:47
  called Nathan for You, where he would go and
• 44:49
  offer like solutions to businesses. So he started,
• 44:53
  for example, there's a viral video of him creating
• 44:56
  like a store called Dumb Starbucks, where he
• 44:59
  basically just sort of knocked off Starbucks's
• 45:01
  branding for a mom and pop shop to get people
• 45:04
  in the door. And then through a loophole, he
• 45:07
  was able to then. not avoid getting sued by Starbucks
• 45:11
  because he added dumb to the Starbucks logo.
• 45:15
  So anyways, he's somebody who, you know, is known
• 45:17
  for manipulation. He's known for pulling off
• 45:21
  stunts, pranks, cringe comedy, if you will. And
• 45:26
  he's somebody who himself is kind of an enigma.
• 45:29
  Like I know who he is, but I don't really know
• 45:31
  who Nathan Fielder is. So you can imagine now
• 45:34
  you take him, you know, he's Sort of someone
• 45:38
  who's hard to pin down like who like the real
• 45:41
  Nathan Fielder, please stand up I don't know
• 45:43
  who it is and then you have got Liz Holmes What's
• 45:47
  her deal? So you've got these two people in a
• 45:50
  movie So wait, is it like I'm so confused. Is
• 45:53
  it a so the real Elizabeth Holmes is in this
• 45:55
  documentary with Nathan Fielder. Why? How? Like,
• 45:59
  what, how did this happen? So that, well, see,
• 46:02
  that's, that's the thing, John. How, well, I
• 46:04
  can tell you how it happened, why. Without spoiling
• 46:06
  it for me. Without spoiling it. So basically,
• 46:09
  um, and you'll hear different versions of this
• 46:12
  too, which is another reason why it's kind of
• 46:14
  a... an amazing movie, because how it came to
• 46:17
  be is just so wild. Basically, Liz Holmes and
• 46:20
  her partner Billy Evans went to A24, the film
• 46:23
  company, right? And said, we want to, you know,
• 46:29
  tell our story. We're gonna invite you in, give
• 46:32
  you access to our lives, because I, Liz Holmes,
• 46:36
  have been terribly misunderstood and maligned
• 46:38
  in the media. So that's how A24 got involved.
• 46:43
  And so... 824, I guess, you know, obviously has
• 46:47
  a relationship already with Oppenheim and maybe
• 46:50
  Oppenheim thought about a number of people, but
• 46:54
  Nathan Fielder was one of the people that was
• 46:57
  sort of in the room when the pitch was made.
• 47:00
  So you've got Nathan Fielder attached to this
• 47:03
  project with Lance Oppenheim and Liz Holmes in
• 47:07
  her kind of Malibu home. 34 days before she's
• 47:12
  supposed to go serve her federal prison census.
• 47:14
  So he's got access to her this entire time, just
• 47:17
  hanging out with her. Her motive, well, I mean,
• 47:21
  depends on who you ask. Because if you come out
• 47:24
  of the theater, you could hear 10 different versions,
• 47:27
  and that's what makes it amazing. She went to
• 47:29
  A24 to tell her truth. Nathan Fielder went to
• 47:34
  her home. to spend time with her to get to the
• 47:37
  truth. So at a movie, at its core, is trying
• 47:40
  to get to the truth, an objective truth, with
• 47:43
  two known liars, right? Holding it up. So it's
• 47:47
  just like an incredible thing you're watching
• 47:48
  going like... Is she for real? Is he for real?
• 47:51
  Like, it's, hmm. And then you kind of... And
• 47:54
  you keep referencing it as a movie. And to me,
• 47:58
  like, calling something a movie and calling something
• 48:00
  a documentary seems like two different things.
• 48:02
  Because I hear documentary and I think, okay,
• 48:04
  this is just like straightforward, journalistic,
• 48:07
  we're going to get the facts. But... It seems
• 48:09
  like this is more of a movie in the sense of
• 48:11
  the manipulation that might be going on takes
• 48:14
  itself in a form of like, you know, dramatic
• 48:17
  or creative license to make it entertaining,
• 48:18
  to make it captivating for the audience. You
• 48:20
  know, I don't know. What do you think? Yeah,
• 48:22
  it's a documentary, so good on you for calling
• 48:25
  me out on that. But the fact that I said movie
• 48:27
  because it has such a cinematic quality and because
• 48:30
  the second half of the film, I can't even go
• 48:32
  into it because it would spoil it for you significantly,
• 48:36
  is... is something else entirely. I've heard
• 48:41
  it has to do with her husband. Is that part of
• 48:43
  the twist or no? Oh, that's not the twist. That's
• 48:46
  not the twist, but that's the focus of, because
• 48:49
  now she's in jail, so it does focus on him. But
• 48:51
  it's the way that it's made the second half becomes,
• 48:55
  and for anybody who's seen Nathan Fielder's The
• 48:58
  Rehearsal, I'll just put it that way. It kind
• 49:02
  of becomes meta. How is The Rehearsal meta? It's
• 49:06
  meta documentary. Um, it's aware of itself, right?
• 49:11
  Like he's aware this whole thing is a farce.
• 49:14
  What's it about for him? There's only, okay,
• 49:15
  so he, he rehearses moments, difficult moments
• 49:20
  with his clients so that when they go on, let's
• 49:22
  say like someone's going to break up with their,
• 49:24
  with their partner, they'll call Nathan and Nathan
• 49:27
  will come and pretend to be, say, the partner.
• 49:30
  and he'll reenact the whole situation, right?
• 49:34
  So like he'll bring in elaborate staging and
• 49:36
  lights and sound and help that person to reenact
• 49:39
  that thing, to rehearse it for the real thing.
• 49:42
  So his whole thing is about cringe and about
• 49:45
  sitting in awkwardness. So what's great, and
• 49:48
  you know, obviously you'll go see the movie,
• 49:50
  we'll have a conversation about it after you
• 49:52
  see it, but it's just the fact that you've got
• 49:55
  a guest documentary, but. Is it? Like, you don't
• 50:00
  know what is real here. So there's an element
• 50:03
  of disbelief that you're sort of watching this
• 50:05
  whole spectacle play out, and you walk out with
• 50:08
  a lot of different feelings and emotions, but
• 50:10
  definitely a thinker. I've not met anybody that's
• 50:15
  not left the theater thinking, wow. That was
• 50:18
  an experience. It is hilarious. It's a really,
• 50:21
  really fun time. How does Amanda Syphrey factor
• 50:24
  into this? Because I think I heard on the Julia
• 50:26
  Cunningham show on radio Andy's channel on SiriusXM
• 50:30
  that it helps. to watch a show called The Dropout
• 50:36
  with Amanda Seyfried. So did Amanda Seyfried
• 50:39
  played a fictional version of Elizabeth Holmes
• 50:40
  before this documentary came out? Yeah, so Amanda
• 50:44
  Seyfried did play Elizabeth Holmes in The Dropout.
• 50:47
  She won an Emmy for the performance, but to this
• 50:50
  day, she still does say it's based on a fictionalized
• 50:54
  character. She's not really playing Elizabeth
• 50:57
  Holmes. She's playing like a, like, I would say
• 50:59
  if... Uh, kind of a heightened version of Elizabeth
• 51:03
  Holmes. So in, in the reality of it is though,
• 51:07
  when you're watching the dropout, most people
• 51:09
  think that's, that's Elizabeth Holmes, right?
• 51:12
  So she does come into the movie and - Amanda
• 51:15
  comes into the documentary. We do see it. We
• 51:18
  do see it. I don't want to say too much more
• 51:20
  though, because that's a major - Spoiler. That's
• 51:23
  a major, that's a major, yeah, it doesn't spoil
• 51:26
  it too much, but it's like - we're treading in
• 51:29
  some dangerous territory if we're bringing her
• 51:30
  up. Because she's like a load -bearing part of
• 51:33
  the second half of the movie. Because what little
• 51:35
  I've heard, it almost sounds like she's there
• 51:38
  to, like, reenact some moments. But I don't know.
• 51:41
  I don't know. I mean, I don't want you to ruin
• 51:43
  the experience. No, I'm happy. Can we do spoilers
• 51:45
  here? I mean, I don't know if you want to go
• 51:46
  there. I want to see what the hype is about.
• 51:50
  So maybe you shouldn't spoil it for me. You know
• 51:52
  what? I don't think I'd even spoil it even if
• 51:54
  you did, no. But yes. She is there. She does
• 51:59
  reenact, you know, certain parts of the documentary.
• 52:05
  And honestly, people are talking about this movie,
• 52:09
  this movie, this documentary as a serious Oscar
• 52:14
  contender. And I think she might actually be
• 52:16
  in the conversation based on a reenactment. It's
• 52:21
  absolutely, you can't write this. It's just,
• 52:24
  it's a bizarre, a bizarre series of events that
• 52:27
  brought these artists together to do this thing.
• 52:30
  But it is honestly my favorite movie of the year
• 52:33
  so far. I've seen it twice already. And I can't
• 52:35
  wait to see it again. I question calling it a
• 52:37
  documentary if an actress is coming in and reenacting
• 52:39
  this real life per, oh my God. Woo! It has levels.
• 52:43
  I'm not sure Amanda didn't expect this to maybe
• 52:46
  get her an Oscar. Cause I know she... for Ariana's
• 52:50
  part in Wicked, and Ariana got the Oscar nomination
• 52:53
  for that. So this is kind of like a nice, interesting
• 52:57
  way to finally get some Oscar recognition. Hello.
• 53:02
  Oh, interesting. Yeah, yeah, no, Amanda's great.
• 53:04
  I mean, Mean Girls, Veronica Mars, I mean, she
• 53:06
  has a great body of work, so. No, she has, she
• 53:08
  has. Yeah, I hope you do get to see it though,
• 53:11
  and then we can have a conversation about it
• 53:12
  again, because it's a movie that could only be
• 53:15
  crushing it now, because what is real? we don't
• 53:18
  know what's real anymore. It's like we're in
• 53:21
  a state where people are always trying to figure
• 53:23
  out what's real, what's not. And so this movie
• 53:27
  makes so much sense right now. Again, the mirror,
• 53:31
  it's reflecting back at us what we are collectively
• 53:34
  all experiencing around objective truth. So I
• 53:38
  think it's such a great example of like a pop
• 53:40
  culture kind of artifact that you could just
• 53:42
  unpack and unpack for days. Everything from what
• 53:47
  our lovely American president does every day
• 53:49
  to the AI slot that we see online. What is real?
• 53:52
  That's the big question of 2026. Isn't that scary?
• 53:56
  What is real? The Delicious Culture with Jon
• 54:01
  Francois, proudly hosted by RSS. Why not join
• 54:05
  them? If you are starting a new podcast, and
• 54:07
  especially if you are like me, you were with
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  a hosting provider for a certain amount of years,
• 54:12
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  very easily. RSS only requires 10 downloads for
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  way to start your podcasting career. Start today
• 54:30
  with the link in my show notes. Let's wrap up
• 54:36
  with some delicious questions. Antoinette, what
• 54:39
  is a delicious meal that you've had lately? Okay.
• 54:43
  The old school cheeseburger. Don't knock a cheeseburger.
• 54:48
  I'm telling you. Oh my goodness. So I used to
• 54:50
  be a boring hamburger guy. And I think it was
• 54:53
  my sister when we were growing up that was more
• 54:54
  the cheeseburger person. But I don't know what
• 54:56
  happened. Maybe it was when I started really
• 54:59
  getting into the two cheeseburger meal option
• 55:01
  at McDonald's. Like that is like, I know McDonald's
• 55:05
  is not a great example, but like something about
• 55:07
  what they do to those cheeseburgers. It hits
• 55:09
  great. But anyway, I'm telling you, what do you
• 55:10
  like about cheeseburger? Go ahead. A cheeseburger,
• 55:13
  there's something about a good cheeseburger.
• 55:15
  Now this cheeseburger is from an old school diner
• 55:18
  in Toronto's little Italy area. Pure chuck, right?
• 55:22
  Made to order. That's key. You're stealing my
• 55:24
  heart. Right? And it's also, I'm talking gourmet
• 55:28
  cheese as well too. None of this like, you know,
• 55:31
  pre -packaged kind of nonsense. It's a really
• 55:33
  nice, nice situation here, Don. Now I feel bad.
• 55:37
  Got crispy onions, right? Wow. Because texture
• 55:40
  is big. It's a big deal with food, right? And
• 55:43
  then you've got a nice brioche bun. So again,
• 55:46
  those things, simple thing, but I think the best
• 55:50
  food is simple food. You can really mess up simple
• 55:53
  food. You cook me a burger and you cook me an
• 55:56
  egg, and I know if you can cook, okay? Those
• 55:58
  are two things you can really cook well and two
• 56:02
  things that can go south real quick. And this
• 56:05
  burger is just like, it's just the right size.
• 56:07
  I mean, it's generous. and juicy and, uh, yet
• 56:12
  not greasy. Yeah. Which is key, right? Which
• 56:15
  is key. But yeah, no, the, my last meal, I know
• 56:17
  what it would be. It would be a cheeseburger
• 56:19
  specifically, actually from a place in Japan
• 56:23
  that I used to eat every Thursday night with
• 56:26
  my friends. I'm still trying to figure out what
• 56:28
  they put in the, the marinade. Like it's, it
• 56:32
  must be crack. I don't know what it is. I can
• 56:34
  only imagine. Like it's something that just out
• 56:38
  of this world, I would give anything to have
• 56:40
  a bite of that burger. But like people come from
• 56:43
  far and wide to come sample this burger. This
• 56:46
  is interesting. So you're because what I hear
• 56:49
  is you're taking these sort of simplicity common
• 56:53
  man thing of the cheeseburger, but It seems like
• 56:57
  the type of cheeseburger you're getting is a
• 56:59
  lot more dressed up and fancy than cheeseburgers
• 57:03
  that most people get. You know what I mean? So
• 57:05
  I like that. I like that, that mixture that,
• 57:08
  you know, oh, God, there's nothing like a simple
• 57:10
  cheese. But you're also just like, you're made
• 57:12
  cheese and you got the crispy onions and you
• 57:14
  go to this little part of little Italy. Like,
• 57:17
  it's just, yeah. Here's my stupid ass that's
• 57:22
  just like, oh, I like McDonald's and the Shake
• 57:23
  Shack cheeseburger. Listen, Shake Shack, hey,
• 57:28
  I'm not going to say anything bad about McDonald's
• 57:31
  or Shake Shack because those are the OGs. They're
• 57:35
  the OGs and like McDonald's is great. Shake Shack,
• 57:37
  we just got it recently in Toronto. I love it.
• 57:39
  I love it. Yeah, we had a door dashed when we
• 57:42
  went to Rhode Island, not too far from us here
• 57:45
  in Vermont in the States for vacation. And yeah,
• 57:48
  I mean, you know, they're called Shake Shack.
• 57:50
  So you think they're known for their shakes.
• 57:51
  And I got a tropical mango shake. It was the
• 57:53
  die for it was great. But like, I have this like
• 57:55
  double cheeseburger. I think it was called the
• 57:57
  Shake Shack burger or whatever. And I don't think
• 58:00
  I had ketchup on it, which I usually have with
• 58:01
  my cheeseburger, but it was pretty good. It was
• 58:04
  banging. I guess you also answered my question,
• 58:08
  like, what do you like in your cheeseburger?
• 58:10
  Because for me, I'm not doing the crispy onions.
• 58:13
  I'm more so like, just give me cheese, lettuce,
• 58:15
  tomato, onions, pickles. Give me all those fixings.
• 58:18
  But you like the cheese, the crispy onions, and?
• 58:23
  No, just those two things. I think, I think mushrooms,
• 58:27
  I can, I can do mushrooms. You know, a sauteed
• 58:30
  mushroom. I'm not mad at that. Um, but you know,
• 58:32
  I think the key is the cheese, a good cheese.
• 58:35
  It is a good cheese and good chuck. That's your
• 58:38
  halfway there and the brioche. It's gotta be
• 58:40
  a good bun. So I, you know, as I, as I speak
• 58:42
  this to life, I'm like, yeah, that is, that is
• 58:44
  fancy sounding. It is sounding fancy. I've not
• 58:47
  realized it. Don't get me wrong. I mean, I've
• 58:49
  fucked with a brioche bun cheeseburger. I mean,
• 58:52
  the brioche bun, it's a pretty, I mean, I'm just
• 58:53
  imagining it and feeling it and tasting it right
• 58:56
  now as you speak. It's just, yeah, there is nothing
• 58:58
  like a well -made brioche bun cheeseburger, you
• 59:02
  know? Gotta treat yourself, man. And it's like
• 59:04
  the perfect, it's also the perfect thing, because
• 59:06
  sometimes you'll get those cheeseburgers that
• 59:08
  are either like, whee! too tiny, like a McDonald's
• 59:10
  cheeseburger, or it's way too big, like a fucking,
• 59:14
  I don't know, smash burger, donut burger delight
• 59:17
  or whatever. And you pass out and just cannot
• 59:20
  eat for days. But when you have a cheeseburger
• 59:23
  that it's just a perfect size, it doesn't fill
• 59:26
  you up, but you're still satisfied in the tummy.
• 59:29
  Like that's probably your cheeseburger. That's
• 59:31
  probably your cheeseburger. It absolutely is.
• 59:33
  It's an art, man. I can make you a good. I pride
• 59:36
  myself in making a cheeseburger. Can I come over
• 59:37
  in Toronto and taste one of your cheeseburgers?
• 59:39
  Look, if you fly over to Toronto, I'll make you
• 59:42
  two. I'll make you two cheeseburgers. Now why
• 59:44
  the hell would I fly to Toronto? I thought I'm
• 59:46
  like only hours away from you. Oh, that's so
• 59:48
  true. What kind of money do you think I have?
• 59:52
  Do you think I'm Taylor Swift and I can just
• 59:53
  fly on a plane to Toronto at any whim? You are
• 59:57
  so close, actually, that it's so true. I mean,
• 59:59
  have you been to Toronto before? No! And it's
• 1:00:03
  because it's too far away, because like I told
• 1:00:05
  you, I'm closer to the Quebec side of Canada
• 1:00:07
  than the... What's Toronto? Is that British Columbia?
• 1:00:11
  So Toronto is in Ontario. So closer to New York.
• 1:00:16
  Yeah, exactly. So would you drive to New York
• 1:00:18
  City? I did literally in September for podcast
• 1:00:20
  movement. Okay. Say it not too much further.
• 1:00:23
  You could come the other way around, go through,
• 1:00:25
  you know, uh, well, I guess, I guess maybe it
• 1:00:28
  would be, how long would that take you then to
• 1:00:29
  get from? Vermont to New York? Yeah. Um, with
• 1:00:33
  traffic, it's about six and a half hours. Okay.
• 1:00:36
  Yeah, because I had a feeling Toronto was on
• 1:00:39
  the seven, eight hour side from me. Yeah, that's
• 1:00:41
  why I was thinking you'd get on a flight for
• 1:00:43
  that, but actually seven, eight hours? That's
• 1:00:44
  a nice road trip. Yeah. My thing is, if I'm driving
• 1:00:48
  for a long road trip and I'm not moving there,
• 1:00:52
  10 hours or less is what I'm willing to do. I
• 1:00:57
  actually was almost going to meet with a podcaster
• 1:00:59
  who I'm going to have on this podcast soon for
• 1:01:02
  coffee because she's in Vancouver. And my dumb
• 1:01:04
  geographical ass is just like, oh, you're in
• 1:01:06
  Canada. So anywhere in Canada is close to me.
• 1:01:09
  It's 10 hours away. But then I looked at the
• 1:01:12
  map and Vancouver from here is like fucking like
• 1:01:15
  a day and a half of drive. It's a it's far. It
• 1:01:18
  is far. Yeah, I'm getting on a flight for that.
• 1:01:20
  It's like a five hour flight from where I am.
• 1:01:22
  Where is it from your driving wise? Yeah. Driving?
• 1:01:25
  Oh my gosh, I mean like, so it would take a few
• 1:01:28
  days, days. I have this idea of Canada as like
• 1:01:31
  a tiny, tiny country, but no, you guys, it's
• 1:01:34
  big. It is so big, it is so big. I think, yeah,
• 1:01:40
  like to drive it, I'm not even sure what that
• 1:01:42
  would cost or what it would take, but it would
• 1:01:44
  be days, days, days, days. But we're lucky, we
• 1:01:47
  have like this amazing country, which is why.
• 1:01:50
  I think people don't often know the other parts
• 1:01:53
  of Canada. Like it's very possible you could
• 1:01:55
  meet somebody who's from Vancouver, who's never
• 1:01:57
  been to Toronto, and someone from Toronto who's
• 1:01:59
  never been to Vancouver, right? So it's, yeah,
• 1:02:02
  we're blessed. I really think we're blessed here.
• 1:02:05
  We've got a beautiful country. Yeah. I mean,
• 1:02:06
  I've heard so much about the... I just heard
• 1:02:09
  so many great things about Toronto. Yeah, because
• 1:02:12
  my Canadian experience is limited to Niagara
• 1:02:15
  Falls as a vacation with my family when I grew
• 1:02:17
  up in, you know, this was like late 90s that
• 1:02:19
  we went to summer vacation in Niagara Falls.
• 1:02:22
  And, you know, again, all the trips to Montreal
• 1:02:25
  since moving here to Vermont and, you know, also
• 1:02:29
  the other parts of Quebec that are not that exciting,
• 1:02:33
  to be honest. But, yeah, I mean, Toronto, I've
• 1:02:38
  heard great things about the arts. I know. Don't
• 1:02:41
  you have the Just for Laughs festival? We do.
• 1:02:44
  But it's in Montreal. No, it is in Montreal.
• 1:02:47
  We also have it in Toronto as well. We just had
• 1:02:50
  it in September, October. You still have the
• 1:02:53
  second city branch there, right, for improv comedy?
• 1:02:56
  We do. We do have a second city. Yes, we do.
• 1:03:02
  Actually, it's a very, very good city for comedy.
• 1:03:05
  Come to think of it. Canada in general, much
• 1:03:08
  has been said about the comedy talent that's
• 1:03:11
  come from Canada. My God. I was literally listening
• 1:03:15
  to Conan O 'Brien's interview with Martin Short,
• 1:03:18
  who is one of many Canadian comedy legends. I
• 1:03:22
  cannot wait to watch his documentary about the
• 1:03:25
  legendary - cast of Godspell in Toronto back
• 1:03:29
  in the early 70s, where it was him and Eugene
• 1:03:32
  Levy, and I know Gilda Radner, who was one of
• 1:03:36
  the original SNL players, like, was in that cast.
• 1:03:39
  I mean, and that story, the story of that Godspell
• 1:03:43
  cast has been told on so many late night talk
• 1:03:44
  shows. I can't believe it took them now to, like,
• 1:03:47
  finally make a good documentary about, like,
• 1:03:48
  how all those people just happened to be one
• 1:03:50
  of the biggest comedy giants of our time. But,
• 1:03:53
  yeah, SCTV, Second City TV. but yeah, I mean,
• 1:03:57
  Martin Short, Jim Carrey, I mean, you guys have
• 1:03:59
  a lot of, you know, Norm MacDonald, I mean, it's
• 1:04:04
  just a lot of people. And it's just something
• 1:04:06
  in the water? Is it something in the sauce? Yeah,
• 1:04:09
  you know, I've had a conversation about this
• 1:04:11
  too, like what makes Canadians so funny? I think,
• 1:04:15
  you know what? If you're living next door to
• 1:04:20
  a superpower, I think that's one thing that we're
• 1:04:23
  a little bit self -depreciating in that sense.
• 1:04:27
  Culturally, I feel like Canadians are known for
• 1:04:31
  being kind of polite. And I think there's something
• 1:04:34
  that we value about, yeah, just not taking ourselves
• 1:04:38
  too seriously. And I think that's something that
• 1:04:41
  I've noticed, irrespective of the actual cultural
• 1:04:45
  influence here, because there's so many different...
• 1:04:48
  you know, people living in Canada. There's a
• 1:04:52
  lot of things that do connect us. And one thing
• 1:04:55
  is the fact that, yeah, I think Canadians, I
• 1:04:57
  don't know, I feel like we are very generally
• 1:05:01
  sort of self -depreciating. Maybe it's something
• 1:05:05
  to do with our roots. If it's a British thing,
• 1:05:07
  I don't know. I was going to say, because it
• 1:05:08
  feels like you guys have a nice balance of American
• 1:05:13
  and British influences that just combine together
• 1:05:17
  and it made all the comedy that comes from Canada.
• 1:05:21
  I could be wrong. I'm not from there. I'm thinking
• 1:05:24
  that because I feel like the British sentimentality.
• 1:05:28
  It's definitely here, but then yeah, of course
• 1:05:29
  we have so many ties to America and American
• 1:05:33
  comedy, obviously, but then also we're sort of
• 1:05:36
  like, I feel like we're the little brother sometimes
• 1:05:39
  to America. That's been our traditional, well,
• 1:05:42
  that was changing a little bit now, but it's
• 1:05:44
  traditionally been. So I think when you're in
• 1:05:46
  that role, just like in many family systems,
• 1:05:49
  the youngest kid often ends up tap dancing for
• 1:05:52
  their dinner. It becomes like, just to keep the
• 1:05:55
  peace kind of thing. We are peacekeepers. We
• 1:05:57
  are a diplomatic. Well, again, it depends on
• 1:05:59
  who you ask, but we are kind of that peacekeeping
• 1:06:03
  humanitarian country. So it's like that affability
• 1:06:05
  that comes from the stiff British upper lip.
• 1:06:08
  And like, it's kind of a, yeah, it's a mishmash
• 1:06:11
  of things. And you've got the French bringing
• 1:06:13
  in a little bit of spice as well too. And I don't
• 1:06:17
  know, I feel like it's a country too that is
• 1:06:19
  also, it's cold, right? Through most of the country
• 1:06:25
  plunges into winter. And so I think also too,
• 1:06:28
  it's like, I don't know necessarily what it is,
• 1:06:32
  but I think that we are people that are also
• 1:06:34
  very attuned to just. not taking ourselves too
• 1:06:39
  seriously and enjoying things. Like you have
• 1:06:41
  short bursts of summer, we get out, we enjoy
• 1:06:44
  ourselves. I think there's certain, maybe also
• 1:06:47
  maybe even a melancholy that sets in. A lot of
• 1:06:50
  comedians sort of like do their best work maybe,
• 1:06:53
  like hibernating during the winter. Like there's
• 1:06:54
  a lot of arts that goes on as well when you can't
• 1:06:57
  go out. So there's a lot of things here, I don't
• 1:07:00
  know. I don't know. Yeah, I'm certainly seeing.
• 1:07:03
  at least from the Canadian comedy or comedians
• 1:07:06
  that I've seen, I see a bit of the dryness, the
• 1:07:13
  sarcasm, the insult humorness that I've seen
• 1:07:17
  in British comedy. I see a lot of the sort of
• 1:07:20
  goofy, punchline -y slapstick from the American
• 1:07:23
  comedies. So all these different elements just
• 1:07:26
  kind of come together and you'll get people like,
• 1:07:29
  again, Jim Carrey or Martin Short or whatever.
• 1:07:32
  So... Building off of that, next question, what
• 1:07:36
  is your delicious pop culture obsession? Obviously,
• 1:07:38
  you talk plenty of pop culture on your podcast.
• 1:07:41
  So something you're watching or listening to
• 1:07:42
  or reading out of all the things that you're
• 1:07:44
  consuming, what's one that you would like to
• 1:07:46
  share with us? Well, I mean, I've been crushing
• 1:07:50
  the traders lately. You know what? I had a host
• 1:07:53
  of this podcast called Ducks Unplugged. They
• 1:07:55
  recommended Traders, and I've heard... that traitors,
• 1:07:59
  uh, this season, instead of, like, the usual
• 1:08:01
  celebrity format, they're doing, like, regular
• 1:08:03
  people that you've never heard of? Yeah. Normies.
• 1:08:05
  Complete normies. How, for you, has that affected
• 1:08:08
  the experience of the traitors? Because, like,
• 1:08:10
  I've always heard of it as, like, the celebrity
• 1:08:12
  sort of murder mystery game reality show thing.
• 1:08:15
  I've seen a couple episodes, and now it's regular
• 1:08:18
  people. What's that dynamic like? It has not
• 1:08:22
  changed it at all for me. Okay. If anything,
• 1:08:25
  it might be more interesting. Yeah? Because you
• 1:08:27
  go in with less, you know, if you're preconceptions,
• 1:08:29
  right? Because you see a celebrity, you kind
• 1:08:32
  of have a sense, at least we have these pair
• 1:08:34
  of social relationships, we think we know who
• 1:08:36
  that person is. So you're expecting a certain
• 1:08:39
  type of behavior. But with people you don't know...
• 1:08:41
  They're wild cards, man. Like they come on and
• 1:08:44
  you actually don't know what to expect. So with
• 1:08:47
  that in mind, it kind of makes the game play
• 1:08:50
  a little bit more enticing. I love the show.
• 1:08:54
  I love the show. And I think if I had an opportunity
• 1:08:57
  to go on any show, and I've thought about this,
• 1:09:00
  I actually would go on that show. I've had...
• 1:09:03
  You've thought about this. You set up an itinerary
• 1:09:07
  and everything. I have thought about it because
• 1:09:09
  a few years ago, one of my colleagues said, you
• 1:09:12
  know, what show you'd be great on? Traders. I'm
• 1:09:15
  like, I don't know how to feel about that. Like,
• 1:09:18
  is that a good thing? But I think, you know,
• 1:09:20
  the way she at least explained it to me is like,
• 1:09:22
  Traders is a show where you have to kind of read
• 1:09:25
  the room. be perceptive, and we always overestimate
• 1:09:29
  our ability to read people, right? But I do think,
• 1:09:33
  I do think, again, when I said right back at
• 1:09:35
  the start, when we started chatting about details
• 1:09:38
  and memory for details, for like emotional details
• 1:09:41
  or resonance or patterns, psychoanalyst like
• 1:09:44
  looking at patterns with people, I remember things.
• 1:09:47
  So like quirks, and I think it's also as a writer,
• 1:09:51
  you know, I heard, oh gosh. I can't remember
• 1:09:55
  his name at this moment, which is a terrible
• 1:09:57
  segue to an anecdote that you're going to drop.
• 1:09:59
  But yeah, a famous director. He's really good.
• 1:10:04
  He did Odyssey. Chris Nolan. Chris Nolan. One
• 1:10:10
  of the most famous directors of our time. You're
• 1:10:12
  blanked out on his name. Just the most famous
• 1:10:13
  mother in the play. Yeah. But basically, and
• 1:10:16
  it may not even be him, so it may not be worth
• 1:10:18
  this. Maybe not. Maybe not. But anyways, he's
• 1:10:21
  talking about writing. the fact that you kind
• 1:10:25
  of borrow from people and, you know, writers
• 1:10:29
  and magpies. And it's like, yeah, I think that's
• 1:10:31
  it. I think I have a memory for certain details
• 1:10:34
  about people. So if I were on the show, I think
• 1:10:37
  I might do all right on it because I think I
• 1:10:43
  can adapt. And again, that's where that sort
• 1:10:45
  of adaptation comes in from living in different
• 1:10:47
  places, is that I can kind of move in different
• 1:10:50
  places and yeah, adapt pretty easily. But I also
• 1:10:54
  think that curiosity about people, like noting
• 1:10:57
  things people are saying or doing. I think that's
• 1:11:01
  something that might serve me well there. So
• 1:11:04
  I would definitely do that show. I think it's
• 1:11:06
  probably a lot more fun to watch it than to be
• 1:11:09
  on it. It's probably a probably nerve wracking
• 1:11:12
  experience to be on it. But I love it because,
• 1:11:14
  again, much like, you know, we're just talking
• 1:11:16
  about the movie or the movie. You can see everything.
• 1:11:19
  Quote -un -quote. You can see everything. Yeah.
• 1:11:22
  Yeah. Yeah. Trying to find truth, right? What's
• 1:11:24
  the truth? So I think it's even with the pod,
• 1:11:26
  with Culture Alchemy. What are the qualifications
• 1:11:28
  for being a regular person going on Traders?
• 1:11:30
  Because, I mean, with celebrities, I'm assuming
• 1:11:31
  it's like, oh, yeah, they have a big following
• 1:11:33
  and that will attract ratings. But like for regular
• 1:11:36
  people like yourself, like how would you even
• 1:11:37
  get on a show like that? I know someone actually
• 1:11:39
  that's on there, on the Canadian version right
• 1:11:41
  now. And she was on Big Brother as well. So I
• 1:11:45
  think she's kind of, you know, she's become an
• 1:11:48
  influencer through doing a couple of these programs.
• 1:11:50
  But I know how she kind of went about the first
• 1:11:53
  one. And there is sort of a way to put together,
• 1:11:55
  you know, like a demo, if you will, to give them
• 1:11:58
  a feeling of who you are. Like they like to cast
• 1:12:02
  archetypes, certain types of players. And so
• 1:12:05
  I think it's how you package yourself is one
• 1:12:08
  thing. But then also, you know, a lot of people
• 1:12:11
  just... try for years and years and years, and
• 1:12:14
  then one year, I guess they fit in that puzzle
• 1:12:18
  that the producers are trying to put together.
• 1:12:20
  So I'm not actually trying to get on Traders
• 1:12:23
  anytime soon, but if I were to do a show, it
• 1:12:26
  would be Traders or The Amazing Race. I'd go
• 1:12:29
  on either of those shows in a heartbeat, because
• 1:12:31
  even if you lose The Amazing Race, you still
• 1:12:34
  get to go and travel. and see new things, and
• 1:12:37
  so you win either way. So to me, I'd be down
• 1:12:40
  in a heartbeat, in a heartbeat. If producers
• 1:12:42
  are watching, you know, put me on Amazing Race,
• 1:12:44
  I'd be down for that one in a heartbeat. Give
• 1:12:46
  your pitch directly to the camera right now.
• 1:12:48
  I'm Antoinette, and I will be this character
• 1:12:50
  that you want me to be on reality TV. Exactly.
• 1:12:55
  But you know, where else are you going to get
• 1:12:56
  like, you know, a, you know, a psych? kind of
• 1:13:02
  type, artsy, sort of speaks different languages,
• 1:13:07
  has this sort of, I could be fantastic on that
• 1:13:09
  show or I could crash and burn. That's the beauty
• 1:13:11
  of it. I don't know. It's like you mix all these
• 1:13:13
  people in the salad and then you see what comes
• 1:13:16
  out of it. That's why I like those shows is that
• 1:13:18
  again, it's like watching the social dynamics.
• 1:13:20
  I just love. I love it. I think it's an amazing
• 1:13:23
  show. That is definitely my current, you know,
• 1:13:28
  heavy rotation show. But I'm also into a lot
• 1:13:30
  of other things too, like Widows Bay. Oh, yeah,
• 1:13:34
  yeah. We recently finished Widows Bay. Great
• 1:13:36
  show. Yep. Oh, my God. Yeah. You're into that.
• 1:13:39
  Oh, I mean, so I heard about the buzz. And because
• 1:13:44
  I'm interested in what people are buzzing about,
• 1:13:47
  and also I loved Matthew Rhys from The Beast
• 1:13:49
  in Me, the movie on Netflix with him and Claire
• 1:13:51
  Danes, where he was just this, you know, maniacal
• 1:13:55
  villain of a character. And I want to see what
• 1:13:58
  his range was like, because I hear that he's
• 1:13:59
  like the lead in this comedy mystery, and I'm
• 1:14:01
  like, oh, okay, interesting. So, of course, he's
• 1:14:03
  very different in this show than he is from The
• 1:14:05
  Beast in Me. But yeah, no, I enjoyed it. I thought
• 1:14:08
  that... If you can take the element of mystery,
• 1:14:12
  which is a genre that I'm not really that into,
• 1:14:14
  but you can make me laugh. And by making me laugh,
• 1:14:18
  you can make me engaged in the mystery of it
• 1:14:20
  all. I just think it's a wonderful concept for
• 1:14:23
  a show. Well, what are your thoughts on Widow's
• 1:14:25
  Bay? What did you think? I think it's brilliant.
• 1:14:28
  Matthew Rees is just, oh, he's on fire right
• 1:14:31
  now. He won awards for both The Beast in Me and
• 1:14:34
  Widows Bay, I believe, at the Emmys. Yes. Yes,
• 1:14:37
  he made history. So now he's won it. And because
• 1:14:40
  he won the Americans, he's won it in every genre
• 1:14:42
  that he could possibly win it. It's just like,
• 1:14:45
  but he's that good. So, yeah, I love the quirkiness
• 1:14:49
  of the tone of the humor is really specific.
• 1:14:54
  I really love the world. that they created and
• 1:14:58
  I think that that cast, every one of them, I'm
• 1:15:01
  a huge fan of. Huge fan of Steven Rood as well
• 1:15:03
  too. Going back to Office Space, he's a brilliant
• 1:15:06
  actor. Oh man, one of my favorite movies actually.
• 1:15:10
  I just think it's such a unique show and it's
• 1:15:14
  got a really, really singular lens. I can really
• 1:15:19
  sense, okay, I get your humor and either you're
• 1:15:22
  into it or not. I know people that hate that
• 1:15:24
  show. They're just like, I don't get the humor
• 1:15:25
  at all. And so it's a very specific kind of lane,
• 1:15:29
  but I too, I like the darkness with a little
• 1:15:32
  bit of levity. I don't like it when it's too
• 1:15:35
  dark, but I like the darkness with a little bit
• 1:15:37
  of levity. I think it's like the perfect chef's
• 1:15:39
  kiss of a show. Yeah, I think it's a fantastic
• 1:15:43
  show. I can't wait for the next season. For me,
• 1:15:46
  it kind of reminded me of obsession in that it's
• 1:15:49
  like, here's a world, here's a situation, here's
• 1:15:52
  a setup. Oh my God, isn't this tragic and awful
• 1:15:56
  what's happening? But also, this is kind of absurd,
• 1:15:59
  isn't it? Like, that's the tone that I got from
• 1:16:02
  both Obsession and Widow's Bay is just like that
• 1:16:05
  nice balance of like, holy shit, what the fuck
• 1:16:08
  is going on? But also, this is kind of weird.
• 1:16:11
  And I mean, you got to laugh at this at some
• 1:16:13
  point, right? Because like, what is going on?
• 1:16:16
  Exactly. What is going on? And that you just
• 1:16:19
  said there is exactly how I would describe it.
• 1:16:21
  Yeah. To somebody. It's exactly how I describe
• 1:16:24
  a lot of things that I like, though. Because
• 1:16:26
  if I'm like, oh, I get it. Yeah. You know? What
• 1:16:29
  is going on is so much more delicious. Is this
• 1:16:32
  real? Right. What is going on? It is actually
• 1:16:36
  a running gag for the last, like, 18 seasons
• 1:16:39
  on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. The number
• 1:16:41
  one thing that they plant in every single show,
• 1:16:44
  at some juncture, some character is like... what
• 1:16:48
  is happening? It's just like, what is happening?
• 1:16:51
  And that's how I felt, and you can see everything,
• 1:16:54
  what is happening. That's how I felt when I was
• 1:16:56
  watching, what is happening? And, oh, whoa. Oh,
• 1:17:01
  I know what's happening. No, I didn't know what
• 1:17:04
  was happening. It's like, that's the best type
• 1:17:06
  of show. Yeah, those roller coaster emotions.
• 1:17:08
  That's the perfect, perfect, perfect piece of
• 1:17:10
  content. Like, right? Yeah. Hey, I got new glasses.
• 1:17:18
  Oh, wait. You wouldn't know that if you're only
• 1:17:20
  listening, you would only learn that for sure.
• 1:17:23
  If you're watching on YouTube, you so that you
• 1:17:28
  could tell me in the comments, whether you liked
• 1:17:30
  my glasses or not, subscribe to YouTube at the
• 1:17:34
  delicious culture, John Francois at the delicious
• 1:17:37
  culture, J O N F R A N C O I S. And now I'm taking
• 1:17:42
  my glasses off because again, that's something
• 1:17:46
  you can only watch on YouTube. How about the
• 1:17:53
  final question? What's the delicious thing that's
• 1:17:54
  happened in your life lately, Antoinette? Oh,
• 1:17:57
  man. Well, you know, as I said throughout the
• 1:18:00
  show, I've kind of peppered in that, yeah, my
• 1:18:02
  family's from Ghana. I have been there, but I've
• 1:18:05
  not been there with my entire family. So this
• 1:18:09
  holiday season, I'm going to be going back to
• 1:18:13
  Ghana. with mom, dad, my brother and my sister.
• 1:18:16
  And it's basically like our whole family is descending
• 1:18:18
  on this house for the holidays. And it's going
• 1:18:22
  to be an amazing family. So I'm really, I'm,
• 1:18:24
  I'm really happy about that. That's something
• 1:18:26
  that, you know, is the reason why is because
• 1:18:30
  that's, that shit is pretty incredible to get
• 1:18:32
  all of us together. And there was a period of
• 1:18:34
  time too, where I also, I was somewhat estranged
• 1:18:36
  from my sister. It's always been a difficult
• 1:18:38
  relationship. And so for me to be able to see
• 1:18:41
  all of us. together again, and the relationship
• 1:18:44
  I have with her now has really been healed, I
• 1:18:46
  mean, in many ways through music. Music is the
• 1:18:49
  thing that we could connect on. We'd always go
• 1:18:50
  to shows together. It's like something about,
• 1:18:53
  again, art, right? Art is just incredibly powerful
• 1:18:56
  and healing, but music is something that for
• 1:18:58
  both of us is a language that we share. As we
• 1:19:01
  don't, we don't share a lot of other languages.
• 1:19:03
  And of course we speak. English, but it's like
• 1:19:07
  we're coming at it from such different perspectives.
• 1:19:10
  Often a lot of our tension and conflict comes
• 1:19:12
  from that and then old hurts from like, I'm the
• 1:19:14
  eldest, you got everything. You know, I was kind
• 1:19:17
  of sort of always in this position of you're
• 1:19:21
  getting something hand me down from me. So there
• 1:19:24
  was always that sort of rivalry growing up. And
• 1:19:27
  now I think that's something that I really, really
• 1:19:30
  feel so happy to be able to say is that we've
• 1:19:35
  gotten a lot closer. And again, I think it's
• 1:19:37
  a number of reasons, but. What music are you
• 1:19:39
  both into? Yeah. So, okay. So earlier on, you
• 1:19:42
  talked about urban music, hip hop, you know,
• 1:19:44
  obviously soul, R &B. So I got all of that, but
• 1:19:48
  also because I grew up like in the rural countryside.
• 1:19:52
  Like I was actually just like working out in
• 1:19:54
  a Nine Inch Nails t -shirt before I got on this
• 1:19:56
  podcast. Like I listened to all of that. So the
• 1:19:59
  last concert I went to with my sister actually
• 1:20:00
  was Nine Inch Nails. Okay. And yeah, so I listened
• 1:20:03
  to everything. My taste is very eclectic. Me
• 1:20:05
  too, yep. I listen to, I think we've talked a
• 1:20:08
  little bit about music in the past, like country.
• 1:20:10
  Okay, so Olive Garden, a lifetime pass holder,
• 1:20:13
  one of the 50 people that have it. I interviewed
• 1:20:16
  him recently today. He was one of my guests that
• 1:20:18
  I recorded today. And we were going on and on
• 1:20:21
  about Turnstile. Do you know the band Turnstile?
• 1:20:24
  I do. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, because we talked
• 1:20:26
  about it on Facebook. I forgot. Because we talked
• 1:20:28
  about it on, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah,
• 1:20:30
  no, I mean, yes, I grew up with like hip hop,
• 1:20:33
  R &B, Haitian Christian music, all that. But
• 1:20:36
  along the way, I discovered loving hardcore rock,
• 1:20:40
  alternative rock. You know, you can throw in
• 1:20:42
  some jazz here and there. Latin music. I mean,
• 1:20:46
  it's just, there is so much great music out there
• 1:20:49
  beyond what you grew up with, what was popular
• 1:20:52
  when you were in school. So, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:20:54
  I mean... Oh, totally. Now, are they in the hardcore
• 1:20:59
  rock category? Is that what they are? Yeah, I'll
• 1:21:01
  put them in the alt -rock category. Some people
• 1:21:03
  will call them industrial. and put them in that
• 1:21:06
  specific sub -genre, but they're such pioneers
• 1:21:08
  in the sound. The sound, and it's like, you don't
• 1:21:11
  even need to, I mean, just you can go Google
• 1:21:14
  Anish Nail's light show, one of the best light
• 1:21:17
  shows I've ever seen in my life. I think just
• 1:21:20
  in terms of the whole artistry, I'm a big fan
• 1:21:23
  of Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross as artists.
• 1:21:25
  They do music for so many great movies and they
• 1:21:28
  just got a, like it's nasty. It's like music
• 1:21:31
  is like, it's visceral, it's nasty and it's like,
• 1:21:34
  Oh, yeah, like it's guttural, but it feels like
• 1:21:39
  I can kind of pinpoint a lot of their music to
• 1:21:42
  key moments in like my adolescence, because I
• 1:21:45
  grew up with a lot of friends as well, too, that
• 1:21:47
  were into this music. But yeah, same, grew up
• 1:21:49
  with like world music, African music. You know,
• 1:21:52
  they took us to church. So we obviously we had
• 1:21:54
  all of the gospel, like, and everything from
• 1:21:57
  traveling as well, too. So all these different
• 1:21:59
  influences kind of came into my life very early
• 1:22:04
  on and even to this day, I still love going to
• 1:22:07
  shows. That's my happy places to go out. Actually,
• 1:22:11
  I love house music too. One of my favorite artists
• 1:22:14
  is actually a DJ, John Digweed, if you've heard
• 1:22:17
  of him. That's a great last name. How do you
• 1:22:20
  spell that last name? Dig like it sounds with
• 1:22:22
  one G and weed like it sounds. uh, Digweed, but
• 1:22:26
  he's a UK DJ. He is one of the pioneers of house
• 1:22:29
  music, but I love just, um, yeah, I just love
• 1:22:33
  music. And if I had to give up, like, I was thinking
• 1:22:37
  about this, like if I could listen to one song,
• 1:22:40
  you know, cause I think Colbert loves to ask
• 1:22:42
  that question of his guests. If you could have
• 1:22:43
  one song for the rest of your life would necessarily
• 1:22:46
  have to be on repeat ad nauseam. But every time
• 1:22:49
  you hit play, this song will be on because I
• 1:22:52
  listened to so many things. I just thought. Shit,
• 1:22:54
  I don't know what I would pick. Yeah, it's hard.
• 1:22:56
  I thought about it, though, and I've got it now.
• 1:22:58
  Oh, what is it? I've got it. Well, do you have
• 1:23:00
  one? Before I, first of all, why don't you have
• 1:23:02
  one? That's so tough. I'd put you on the spot,
• 1:23:04
  but. God, I mean, I can give you a collection
• 1:23:07
  of, like, a song that you could play over and
• 1:23:08
  over and over and never get tired of. It's, every
• 1:23:10
  time you press play, it's the song that will
• 1:23:13
  come on for the rest of your life. Yeah. So it
• 1:23:15
  wouldn't be on all the time. but it will be the
• 1:23:17
  only song available to you. I mean, the first
• 1:23:19
  thing that comes to mind is I care from turnstile,
• 1:23:21
  but like, I feel like there might be another
• 1:23:23
  song. Ask me again next year and I bet you the
• 1:23:27
  song is gonna be different. I will. I will. I
• 1:23:30
  know, I know. Well, we'll look at our Spotify
• 1:23:32
  raps, right? And we'll see what that story says.
• 1:23:35
  But I'll tell you what, I think I've got one
• 1:23:37
  that I could be pretty good with. It's In Your
• 1:23:43
  Eyes, Peter Gabriel. And it has to be Peter Gabriel,
• 1:23:50
  the live version of In Your Eyes with the Senegalese
• 1:23:53
  artist, Yusu Endor. And if anyone knows that
• 1:23:57
  song, they know what I'm talking about. It's
• 1:23:58
  like a 10 minute song with, um, I mean, everything,
• 1:24:03
  percussion, vocal. Peter Great Gabriel is like
• 1:24:07
  obviously an older artist, but he was so innovative.
• 1:24:11
  Um, he's got an amazing voice. That song still
• 1:24:13
  holds up now. And then, um, you sue indoor is
• 1:24:16
  maybe one of the most, I don't know, one of the
• 1:24:19
  most prolific, but certainly the most, um, renowned
• 1:24:21
  artists from Africa. Like he's Senegalese artists,
• 1:24:24
  but his voice is incredible. The way he sings
• 1:24:27
  incredible. The gymnastics he's doing on that
• 1:24:30
  track, the percussion, the guitar, it's every
• 1:24:33
  instrument you can think of. So I don't think
• 1:24:35
  I could get sick of that song. Otherwise it'd
• 1:24:37
  have to be a classical song. It'd have to be
• 1:24:39
  something like a classical. standard or something
• 1:24:41
  because I again that just that range and taking
• 1:24:45
  you to Worlds within one song right so that that
• 1:24:48
  would be my song. I think Peter Gabriel sounds
• 1:24:50
  familiar I'll definitely have to die. That's
• 1:24:52
  not play it play it when you get off You'll go
• 1:24:54
  put some headphones on listen to it. Let's see
• 1:24:56
  what I'm saying. Yeah, a very obscure Unexpected
• 1:25:01
  music genre that you feel like nobody might think
• 1:25:05
  of but you like I've read that That's what I
• 1:25:07
  was thinking of in minus as my final question
• 1:25:09
  to you because I like every now and then whenever
• 1:25:14
  I want to have hope that my wife and I will take
• 1:25:17
  a cruise to Italy because it's like my dream
• 1:25:19
  to go there I'm so basic I know but like every
• 1:25:23
  now and then I'll turn on SiriusXM and I'll turn
• 1:25:26
  on their bossa nova channel And Bossa Nova, you
• 1:25:30
  know what I mean when I say Bossa Nova? It's
• 1:25:33
  like you feel like you're at an Italian cafe
• 1:25:37
  sipping whatever the fuck or eating with some
• 1:25:40
  classy meal. It's like a nice evening time. I
• 1:25:44
  mean, and of course, evening time, dinner time
• 1:25:45
  for them is like 11 o 'clock at night. But yeah,
• 1:25:48
  but still it's like romantic. It's like, eh,
• 1:25:50
  there's like that specific acoustic guitar sound.
• 1:25:55
  Yes. So that's for me. And maybe, you know what,
• 1:25:59
  maybe I'm going to switch out turnstiles. I care
• 1:26:01
  for bossa nova music in general. I think that.
• 1:26:04
  Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that used
• 1:26:05
  to be like theme music for the Delicious Culture
• 1:26:07
  in the earlier days when I had a co -host. And
• 1:26:09
  I don't know, there's just something very. calming
• 1:26:14
  and Mediterranean about it that I really enjoy.
• 1:26:18
  So what is your very obscure go -to music that
• 1:26:24
  nobody would think to go to? Maybe something
• 1:26:26
  that just gives you sanity and peace and perspective.
• 1:26:32
  Oh, wow. I mean, you're really challenging me
• 1:26:34
  with that, Bossa Nova. That's a great, that's
• 1:26:36
  a, I don't know that mine is obscure. Did you
• 1:26:38
  expect that from me, Bossa Nova? No, but I love
• 1:26:41
  that. I love that, though. And I know what you
• 1:26:44
  mean, because I like accordion. There's something
• 1:26:47
  about accordion that I find just so beautiful.
• 1:26:53
  Yeah, I can't think of any particular track,
• 1:26:56
  but I do love the accordion. I also think, this
• 1:26:59
  is not obscure, but there's an artist named Gaelle.
• 1:27:06
  And I think, actually, I think she's Haitian.
• 1:27:09
  Oh, is she? I think she might be Haitian -American,
• 1:27:12
  yeah. But Gael, who is an R &B soul singer, she's
• 1:27:17
  got a beautiful, beautiful voice and instrument.
• 1:27:21
  Singer -songwriter, but yeah, I really find her
• 1:27:25
  music beautiful. And then this is also, you said
• 1:27:28
  Italy was basic, but I mean, Italy is Italy.
• 1:27:31
  I mean, it's beautiful, people love it for a
• 1:27:33
  reason. So you can't go wrong with that. I'm
• 1:27:35
  gonna give the Italy answer of like, I guess,
• 1:27:38
  I don't know, um, indie rock, which would be
• 1:27:40
  like, um, Kering Bang, the, the song, um, Maria
• 1:27:46
  Tambien. Okay. It's like a, it's, it's a, a Texas
• 1:27:49
  prog rock band. Um, it's like, I don't know how
• 1:27:55
  to explain their music. Um, there are three piece,
• 1:27:58
  they do kind of spacey. If, if you, if let's
• 1:28:01
  say like, Tim and Paula had a baby with like
• 1:28:06
  explosions in the sky or something. Say no more.
• 1:28:11
  When you say Tim and Paula, I'm just like, oh
• 1:28:13
  yeah. Yeah. That's kind of like what they're
• 1:28:15
  like. I mean, I know Tim and Paula at this point
• 1:28:17
  is like basically the Taylor Swift of the alt
• 1:28:19
  rock world. It's right. I'm sorry. I can rock
• 1:28:24
  out to a little Dracula or a loser or a new person.
• 1:28:28
  It's good, it's good. If it hits, it hits, man.
• 1:28:30
  I don't even care. I just bought Backstreet Boys
• 1:28:33
  tickets. I don't even care. There you go. I don't
• 1:28:35
  care. I'm going. Music is powerful, man. It's
• 1:28:40
  the soundtrack of our lives. It's pure nostalgia
• 1:28:43
  that that purchase was. But again, going with
• 1:28:46
  my sister and just enjoying like, yeah, the music
• 1:28:49
  of our youth, man. Like it's crazy to say to
• 1:28:53
  watch these guys now still. You sound like a
• 1:28:56
  time life voiceover narrator in one of those
• 1:28:58
  late night infomercials. Music is the soundtrack
• 1:29:01
  of our lives. Jimmy Hankes, 1969. Yeah, it's
• 1:29:08
  true. I'll, you know, take the journalists out
• 1:29:10
  of the newsroom. But it's like this, this, uh,
• 1:29:13
  yeah, this, this sounds so cliche, but it's so
• 1:29:15
  true. Have you been told that you have that NPR
• 1:29:17
  journalist vibe or is it just me? I feel like
• 1:29:19
  I bothered you when I said don't hold that to
• 1:29:21
  you. No, no, no, no, not at all actually. And
• 1:29:23
  actually also, by the way, um, speak of psychoanalyze.
• 1:29:26
  So the, the thumbs up. So you, you interpreted
• 1:29:28
  the thumbs up as, uh, in that moment, in that
• 1:29:31
  moment. Really? Let's unpack that. Here's the
• 1:29:34
  thing. In general, I'm fine with a thumbs up.
• 1:29:37
  I have friends who I will send them a thumbs
• 1:29:39
  up and they're just like, oh, you know what?
• 1:29:41
  A middle finger. Because they get two in their
• 1:29:43
  head into a thumbs up as me just not caring about
• 1:29:46
  what they're saying. And no, I don't think it's
• 1:29:49
  that. I think it's just like you're going about
• 1:29:50
  your day and you want to make sure you acknowledge
• 1:29:52
  the person responsible, you send a thumbs up.
• 1:29:55
  In that moment, I got over thinking because I
• 1:29:57
  was like, Oh, okay, like, as opposed to the the
• 1:30:01
  words that we've been exchanging to each other,
• 1:30:03
  or like maybe a heart to a response, it was a
• 1:30:05
  thumbs up. So I thought Kind of like when, you
• 1:30:09
  know, I've heard people tell me a lot, oh, you
• 1:30:12
  know, you worked in radio, you got a good voice
• 1:30:14
  for radio. But like, I just, I've assumed that
• 1:30:17
  by you doing the thumbs up, it maybe has been
• 1:30:19
  a comment that has been said to you before, and
• 1:30:21
  you're just like, God, NPR, I don't want to be
• 1:30:24
  associated with NPR. No. So, I mean, I actually
• 1:30:27
  love NPR. I actually love that comment. So it's
• 1:30:32
  so funny to me. that an emoji, see, an emoji
• 1:30:35
  can say so much. And it was actually just an
• 1:30:39
  emoji, but I have had many people tell me this.
• 1:30:41
  Even today at work, someone told me this. I usually
• 1:30:44
  get some, not necessarily specific to NPR, but
• 1:30:48
  I think that's cool, personally. But I get that
• 1:30:50
  all the time, like radio voice all the time.
• 1:30:52
  I get it all the time. I was actually at a party
• 1:30:54
  a few years ago where someone said something
• 1:30:56
  about TV. And I started in television, not on
• 1:31:00
  air, but... producing television. And someone
• 1:31:03
  at a party just like, I was probably telling
• 1:31:06
  some kind of a story. And the guy just stood
• 1:31:09
  there and he's like, wow. And he's like, you
• 1:31:12
  sound like television. And I'm like, that sounds
• 1:31:15
  negative. That sounds negative. And he's like,
• 1:31:20
  no, no, no. He's just like, he's like, no, he's
• 1:31:22
  like, it's great. you sound like you should be
• 1:31:26
  on television. Like you just, you have a voice
• 1:31:28
  for television. So I'm like, I don't know what
• 1:31:29
  that means. But at the same time, I do know exactly
• 1:31:33
  what it means. Like if you're, as you said, you
• 1:31:35
  get it a lot too. Cause you do have a voice,
• 1:31:36
  a voice for radio. Like it's, I don't know the
• 1:31:39
  timber of your voice or something. I'm not sure
• 1:31:41
  what it is. Yeah. And I guess with that, I say
• 1:31:43
  like, I get people are meaning well by that,
• 1:31:46
  but like I always think of it as this, there
• 1:31:50
  are many people that have a quote unquote radio
• 1:31:54
  voice and because, but, but there are not as
• 1:31:58
  many like distinctive personalities that stand
• 1:32:01
  out. So to me, whenever I hear people emphasize
• 1:32:04
  my voice over like how I made them feel as a
• 1:32:07
  personality, like that's where it's just like,
• 1:32:10
  like I just, you know, that's, that's, and that's
• 1:32:12
  a me thing. That's a problem that I need to work
• 1:32:15
  through. Um, so I'm taking ownership of that.
• 1:32:18
  I know people mean well when they say that, but
• 1:32:20
  internally, I'm just like, but you know, me as
• 1:32:23
  a person, like, do you have anything to say about
• 1:32:26
  me? Not just the voice that you hear. So I don't
• 1:32:28
  know if you get a little bit of that or you just,
• 1:32:31
  you just don't mind it. You take it for, you
• 1:32:33
  know, I take it for what it is. And I think maybe,
• 1:32:36
  um, But I love your perspective on that. That's
• 1:32:38
  really interesting. It's like the, the quality
• 1:32:40
  of the comment, maybe it loses its power, the
• 1:32:43
  more you. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's
• 1:32:45
  funny. I, I, I take it, yeah, I take it on its
• 1:32:48
  face, but I definitely will feel more, um, more
• 1:32:52
  connected to someone who has something about,
• 1:32:54
  um, the content maybe that I'm sharing or like,
• 1:32:58
  that's true. I think that that's a, that's a
• 1:33:00
  great point. Yeah. But I'm also trying, you know,
• 1:33:02
  honestly, if someone's giving me a compliment.
• 1:33:04
  For the most part, I just say thanks, keep moving.
• 1:33:07
  Yeah. I think we're also not great at like often
• 1:33:10
  taking compliments. So someone, you know, for
• 1:33:13
  me is, um, although. Yeah, it is kind of a surface
• 1:33:16
  thing. There's a lot of like other things that'd
• 1:33:18
  be great to hear too. But yeah, I'll just take
• 1:33:20
  it and keep moving. But yeah, I also hear what
• 1:33:23
  you're saying. That's so interesting. So now
• 1:33:25
  I understand why that emoji was more than an
• 1:33:27
  emoji. You see? Now you know why I'm a dramatic
• 1:33:31
  overthinking son of a bitch. Interesting. Yeah,
• 1:33:35
  interesting. Hey, listen, there's a lot of people
• 1:33:37
  right now who are going through text messages
• 1:33:42
  and trying to figure out what an emoji means.
• 1:33:44
  So it can mean a lot. Yeah, absolutely. I'm not
• 1:33:46
  that kind of person. I don't want you to think
• 1:33:48
  that. That was just an isolated moment. And trust
• 1:33:50
  me, I was more of that person in the past, but
• 1:33:53
  yeah, I mean, the great thing about being - medicated
• 1:33:58
  is that that can be toned down. So thank you.
• 1:34:02
  Thank you, Zoloft substitute. I appreciate you.
• 1:34:06
  Oh God, this was so great. I wish we could talk
• 1:34:09
  for hours more, but I have dinner that I have
• 1:34:13
  to get to. My wife's probably like, oh my God,
• 1:34:17
  the shepherd's pie was ready like years ago.
• 1:34:20
  Where are you, Jonathan? Antoinette. Tell everybody
• 1:34:23
  how they can find you, how they can follow you
• 1:34:25
  and Culture Alchemy, all the beautiful stuff
• 1:34:27
  that you do. Yeah. Well, I mean, if people want
• 1:34:31
  to listen to the podcast, you can find Culture
• 1:34:34
  Alchemy on Spotify and Apple. You can also watch
• 1:34:37
  on YouTube. And I'm also on the socials, TikTok
• 1:34:41
  and Instagram. It's weekly episodes dropping.
• 1:34:48
  Come check it out if you want some more deep
• 1:34:50
  dives into pop culture, not just what's happening,
• 1:34:53
  but what it says about us. Beautiful. Couldn't
• 1:34:56
  have said it better myself. Oh, so fun to talk
• 1:35:00
  to you. As per norm, and we'll have to chat again.
• 1:35:03
  Yes. After you see, you can see everything. Yes.
• 1:35:07
  We got to talk. Yes. So much more conversation
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  left to go. All right. Everybody, until next
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  time, let deliciousness ring. So you're running
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