Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Dr. John Boffa has concerns over the changes to alcohol legislation coming when Stronger Futures ends in July

Transcript

Dr. John Boffa has concerns over the changes to alcohol legislation coming when Stronger Futures ends in July · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: We have also been talking quite a bit in recent
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: weeks about the legislation that's due to be debated next
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: week or in the next parliamentary sittings which begin next week,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: and the changes to alcohol legislation which will indeed see
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: alcohol allowed in remote territory communities. Now joining me on
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: the line to talk further about this is doctor John Boffer,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the Chief Medical Officer for Public Health at Central Australian
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Aboriginal Congress. But also he is indeed from I believe. Well,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: let me just get him on the line and we'll
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: double check. Good morning to you, doctor Boffer.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Good morning now are you good?
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: Mate?
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: You've got a couple of titles so I wasn't too
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: sure which to go with this morning, the.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Spokes presents of the People's Alcohol Action Coalition.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Well, John, we know that this situation right now, when
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: it comes to alcohol back in our remote Northern Territory communities,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: legislation is going to be debated, as I understand it,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: next when Parliament sits, so that begins next week. This
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: is something that we've spoken to John Patterson about. We've
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: also spoken to Marian Scrimjaw. We've actually we've spoken to
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: various people on this topic, and I know that you
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: also have some concerns in this space.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I'd just like to clear up a few
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: myths too about this. Firstly, within the Stronger Futures legislation
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: was passed in twenty twelve by the then Labor government. At
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: that point in time, the Racial Discrimination Act was fully
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: restored at the federal level. So it was suspended in
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: two thousand and seven when the NT Emergency Response came
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: into force or what was called the Intervention, but it
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: was brought back in full in twenty twelve. Now, since
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: twenty twelve, if anyone thought that the alcohol provisions in
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: the Stronger Futures legislation were racist, that is negative discrimination,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: they should have taken it to court like that is
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: a serious allegation. No one should have tolerated a racist
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: structure or system in legislation for ten years. And so
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: it's a bit of a concern that at five minutes
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: to midnight we're now hearing from government ministers that these
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: provisions for all this time have been racist. Now we've
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: had average leaders obviously say that's not the case, but
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: we're having government ministers say this is racist. So I
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: think that it's really important that going forward, the RDA
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: is now in place, the nt Discrimination Act is in place.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Both of these act allow for what's called positive discrimination,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: but they don't allow for negative discrimination, which is racism.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: So that I think it is really important that whatever
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: happens going forward, there should be this talk about suspending
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: the RDA or suspending discrimination. That should be rubbish. We
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: are not planning or wanting anything in place that could
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: be seen as negative discrimination.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Now, doctor Boffel, let me take you to some comments
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: which were made by the Health Minister Natasha Files A
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: little be well towards the end of life this month,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: so about a week ago, take a listen from July.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Once that legislation passes from July, they will be able
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: to have alcohol in that community unless they're community leaders
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: opt to not allow that takeaway alcohol.
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: Correct, Would it be a better.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Option to go the opposite way and those that have
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: been dry remain dry unless they actually apply to have
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: that license and it's led by the community.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: So we can't legally do that. That would intertwine with
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: the Antidiscrimination Act in the Territory and the Racial Discrimination
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: Act Commonwealth. So if we're providing that exact legislative framework.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: All the community have to do is say we opt in.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: There is the ability for them to opt in and
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: make these decisions in their own time. They just need
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: to simply opt.
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: In, Doctor Boffer, what do you make of those comments?
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Look, I think it's it's it's I don't think that's
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: correct entirely. What we're saying is these provisions need to
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: be extended for two years and people then are properly
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: consulted and have the chance to opt out. But if
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: these provisions were already in foul of the Racial Discrimination
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Act or the Anti Discrimination Act, then there should have
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: been challenges for the last five whatever years. So there
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: haven't been. There hasn't been a single challenge by anyone
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: to either of those acts. So it's absolutely consistent with
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: both of these acts to continue these provisions and to
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: allow people and communities proper time to consider this change
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: and to opt out. Opting in before the sixteenth of
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: July is way too rush. People have to write to
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: the Director of Licensing and say they want to opt
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: in in some of these areas. It's not even clear
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: who would write such a letter on behalf of some
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: of these alcohol protected areas. In some places it is
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: clear who would have to write such a letter. But
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: there has to be time, there has to be good data,
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: there has to be time to fairly proberly console it's
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: too rush before sixteenth of.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: July, doctor Bobin, What are your concerns in this space?
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, if we are in a situation come July one,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: four hundred Aboriginal communities, town caves, out stations and living
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: areas that were dry, if they don't actually opt in,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: and then they're in a situation where they can have
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: takeaway alcohol in those communities, what do you think is
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: going to happen?
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Well, I think what we're then doing is asking the
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: police auxiliary licensing inspectors the palis to do an impossible job.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Their job becomes unworkable because, as many people may not know,
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Aboriginal people in remote areas do not have street addresses,
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: so they don't have a license to an ID card
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: that says exactly where they live. It could be that
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: it says they live at Indau, for instance, when they
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: live on outstations and living areas around Indhari. So with
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: this hotchpotch of measures, the palis will have no way
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: of accurately knowing where the people are actually coming from
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: an area that's now said they want to have takeaway
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: people can drink take away alkalom the area or whether
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: they are so I just think it's going to completely
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: undermine the palais and make their job unworkable and open
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: the palais up to getting it wrong and then to
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: legal claims about it, because this is a serious business.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: So I actually think it's actually going to completely undermine
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: police really licening aspectives to the point where it may
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: be impossible to continue that. And I think that's what
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: we're worried about. The palais have been the most successful
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: alcohol supply with action measure we've seen. We get everyone
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: gets at its discriminaty, but the positive impacts that it's
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: had have been incredibly significant, and it's got significant support.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: And the reason why it hasn't been challenged is because
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: it's got such strong support from average and leaders, the
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: average of community and anyone thinking about challenges has probably
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: had legal advice that it is considered a special measure.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: But that's in Alice Springs right, Like obviously in the
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: likes of Alice Springs and Catherine that works pretty well.
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: But like here in Darwin, you know, there.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Is nothing to say if somebody's got you know, if
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: someone's got a license and they're not on the BDR,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: they can go in and purchase alcohol and then if
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: they want to take it out to a remote community,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: they're going to be able to do that, aren't they.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, this is not a measure that will particularly
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: impact on Dalen. Although I understand in recent times because
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: of the increase in alcohol consumption that happened during COVID
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: outlet s Hindeau did start asking for license addresses for
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: people coming from remote areas and although you didn't have PALIS,
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: they were not selling alcohol to people who are coming
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: into town from remote areas, So that is something that
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: did start to have an endoa and even without PALIS.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: But primarily this is going to affect Ellie Spring's Sound
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: and Creque and Catherine and CeNSE. Australia has a disproportionate
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: level of alcohol related harm. It has the highest harm
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: in the charity, significantly higher than Dalen. So we've seen
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: a big reduction in emergency department presentations, hospital missions, assaults.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: You know, we've been seeing five less emergency department presentations.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: In the year after Pali's was introduced, many less domestic
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: assaults and other assaults. We've seen charl neglect improved. We
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: don't want to throw the baby out with the bath
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: water too quickly here and unfortunately it's now five minutes
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: to midnight. The end is learning. There's not sufficient time
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: to properly consult people. So we want an opt out system,
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: not an opt in system, that fulfills all the requirements
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: under all of the Rational Discrimination at VNT Discrimination Act.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: And it is these provisions can be extended because if
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: they were illegal, they should have been declared illegal in
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: the last ten years under these acts, and that hasn't happened.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: So there's no risk in extending these these provisions for
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: longer to allow a proper process of consultation.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Well, Dr John Boffer, the spokesperson for the People's Alcohol
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Action Coalition, we appreciate your time this morning.
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: Thanks so much for having your chat with me.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Thanks Katie, thank you